Ship of Fools: Christmas Who

Thread: Christmas Who Board: Heaven / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on :

Well, I loved that! Moffatt went out on a high note. Fantastic!

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I watched it, and will need to watch it again because of various distractions, resulting in someone who would have preferred to be watching a soap getting weepy and complaining that they shouldn't have broadcast it at Christmas. Her father was gassed at the Somme, and died from later complications with his lungs. Her favourite cousin was shot by Italians in WWII. The war issue was still sore with her.
(That she is currently wondering about watching Dad's Army is irrelevant!)

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Oh, the end was a technical KO. [Tear]

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :

I liked the reactions to the old blokes being sexist, strongly implying that sexism was a thing of the past or should be.

My hazy recollection is that these episodes tend to be a review of the departing Doctor's time on the telly and an attempt to give some overarching theme to that time. I didn't see much of that, I thought anyway. I am happy to be shown to be wrong.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I thought it was really excellent. Some really good messages in it.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

An otherwise excellent outing marred by the lack of an actual story...

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :

c'mon Doc. There was a story. It was just very basic, and there to hang stuff off. Kinda like a Christmas tree.

Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :

Yes, no real story although I'm not too bothered about that. It was good to see what happened to a character from a previous episode and I liked where the biggest database in time and space is.

Generally I find that I enjoy whatever they throw at us. Some episodes are better and I am delighted that other people find different ones better. But in all cases I can use my imagination and memories of other adventures (both old & new) to go down paths and ideas I hadn't done before.

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :

I really loved the portrayal of William Hartnell's Doctor. That really made this episode for me. The episode wasn't as self-indulgent as some of the 'actor leaving the role' ones, which was good, and I liked the Doctor's reaction to being regenerated as female. It'll be interesting to see how they take the character forwards.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
My hazy recollection is that these episodes tend to be a review of the departing Doctor's time on the telly and an attempt to give some overarching theme to that time. I didn't see much of that, I thought anyway. I am happy to be shown to be wrong.

I think this last season turned out to be about memories and reality. There have been various people who've existed as memories, such as Heather and the mother in Knock Knock. Sadly the cornerstone of the theme is the Monk trilogy (which was poor).

Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
My hazy recollection is that these episodes tend to be a review of the departing Doctor's time on the telly and an attempt to give some overarching theme to that time. I didn't see much of that, I thought anyway. I am happy to be shown to be wrong.
I think this last season turned out to be about memories and reality. There have been various people who've existed as memories, such as Heather and the mother in Knock Knock. Sadly the cornerstone of the theme is the Monk trilogy (which was poor).

Even more sadly, Heather, the mother and the Monk have left no traces in my memory at all.

Most of the episode I enjoyed, so much so that the lack of plot didn't bother me at the time. However I did get annoyed at the end at how long it took Capaldi to die - until I remembered Tennant, and all was forgiven.

Posted by Roseofsharon (# 9657) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Even more sadly, Heather, the mother and the Monk have left no traces in my memory at all.

so glad I am not alone

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
c'mon Doc. There was a story. It was just very basic, and there to hang stuff off. Kinda like a Christmas tree.

I like how you think. [Smile]

On Hartnell’s behalf, I’m gonna admit when 12 went into his “ fear me, I am the scourge of all worlds” routine, and Hartnell bellowed “WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?” I gave a little cheer.

[ 27. December 2017, 08:01: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Hmph.

So, it's taken me a little while to watch it, because I was reminding myself of this year's season first.

Not all of it, the episodes I'd kept for a second viewing.

And I'm not sure if it was great to be watching this only a couple of hours after the season's 2-part finale, because it turned out there was a lot I didn't like about the 2-part finale. All very important, but not enjoyable to watch.

So maybe that affected my mood for this one. Which I didn't actively dislike, but so much of it was just sort of... there. And fairly meh. The jokes about the 1st doctor (including sexism) were just way too obvious to actually be funny for me. I'm not much of a fan of Mark Gatiss so having him try to carry some emotional weight also didn't work. Capaldi's last speech on the battlefield kind of worked for me but that was about it.

The whole thing had an air of... yes, we know you've been killed (it was telegraphed all through the 2-part season finale, never mind that we know Capaldi is leaving the show), but you're behaving like one of those Shakespeare characters that gets a whole lot in before they ACTUALLY drop.

I dunno. I'm just feeling very unsatisfied. I saw Paddington 2 today and it was so much more entertaining than this.

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

I am unsure how I feel about it. But let's start my analysis here:

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
The jokes about the 1st doctor (including sexism) were just way too obvious to actually be funny for me.

Having the 1st Doctor have old-fashioned sexism was obvious, but it also had been done back in classic Who in The Five Doctors, with Peter Davison's Doctor comically trying to run interference with Tegan.
So, was Moffat giving a nod and tribute to that portrayal with his jokes, or was he just being unoriginal?

Then I contemplate when Russell T. Davies left as Executive Producer. What happened then? Well, ummmm, we had a Doctor (Tennant) hold off regenerating for a ridiculously long time as he wandered around the Universe saying goodbye to ever being he ever met, followed by his regeneration causing the TARDIS to explode, leaving it to the new producer (Moffat) to pick up the story from there. And now we have the Moff's farewell: with a Doctor (Capaldi) holding off on regeneration for a ridiculously long time and, when he finally regenerates it causes the TARDIS to explode and he leaves it there for the new producer to pick up.

So, was Moffat giving a little tribute to RTD by mimicking the same concepts, or was it an in-joke, or was he just being unoriginal?

But then I come to the reveal of who Mark Gatiss' character was. And maybe that is the key: nostalgia. Moffat is saying goodbye to a show that he has spent many years writing and producing and, frankly, loving. Should any of us be surprised that he opted to wallow in nostalgia as his swan song: To bring back cameos of characters (in much the same way as RTD did); to use the 1st Doctor (and even show his regeneration, which somehow happened without blowing up all the equipment...); to give multiple other little nods to the show's history; and to end with yet another Capaldi monologue strewn with quotable lines (and, of course, spoken brilliantly by Capaldi).

So I think that's where I come down. The episode was awash in nostalgia, which seldom makes for a good story, but under the circumstances I think I can forgive Moffat for it. Was it a bit self-indulgent? Yes, but as far as I am concerned he earned the right to reflect nostalgically on the show he clearly loves.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

I liked the WW1 scene in the trenches at Xmas.

[ 27. December 2017, 17:54: Message edited by: leo ]

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

First time I've seen it for some years: it didn't impress I'm afraid. I won't be coming back

Posted by ACK (# 16756) on :

I liked it. The plot seemed to me like a long 'To be or not to be' for the Doctor, where you already know what the answer is and, as previously mentioned, the plot was largely there to hang nostalgia on. But hey.

I liked that Mark Gatiss got to say: 'It's bigger on the inside' because I like MG, and as a Dr Who fan I guess he loved being able to say that.
I really liked when the Germans started singing silent night and I realised exactly when they were. (And that my 12 yr-old got the reference).
Not sure if I like the reveal of the Captain's name or if it was a nostalgia step too far.
I'll go with the regeneration scene being an homage to RTD rather than running out of ideas.

What does niggle, is the cliff-hanger in the previous episode as to what happens to Nardole and the people he helped escape to a higher level, when the cybermen get that far?
Is it stuck in the same place as questions like where did Orson Pink come from, since Danny and Clara did not have children? Or the two years lost from Captain Jack's memories?

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

"Oh, Brilliant." and spoken in her own Huddersfield accent.

I can just see how how this will pan out when The Doctor next meets the Daleks."What the chuff are you doin'. Tha great tin wazzocks." Sounds about right.

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
"Oh, Brilliant." and spoken in her own Huddersfield accent.

I can just see how how this will pan out when The Doctor next meets the Daleks."What the chuff are you doin'. Tha great tin wazzocks." Sounds about right.

Aha! Didn't notice the accent. Fantastic!

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

I rather liked it. OK, the plot was practically irrelevant, and I would imagine non-fans would be a bit confused by the whole thing. But I have a soft spot for the First Doctor, and David Bradley played him to perfection. Those odd pauses in the middle of sentences (because of Hartnell's ill health) were exactly right.

Loved the revelation of who the soldier was, and his confusion at the reference to 'World War One' was poignant. (I did want him to say of the Doctor 'Splendid chaps, both of them' - but maybe that would have been an in-joke too far.)

I'm rather glad we've seen the last of Bill, because I prefer my Doctor/companion relationships minus the UST. Although I might break my rule if Captain Jack Harkness ever appeared again. That would be fun.

Looking forward to Jodie, who I'm sure will be great. I just hope that not every story will revolve around the fact that the Doctor is now female...!

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Looking forward to Jodie, who I'm sure will be great. I just hope that not every story will revolve around the fact that the Doctor is now female...!

We'll have to trust that the new show-runner is smart enough to realize that. I did notice that, when Missy appeared, they did not obsess over the Master being female, although a few "sister" comments crept in when Missy was dealing with another female.

And I suppose it is inevitable that a few episodes will need to focus on the Doctor's female form--for example, if the Doctor travels back to 18th century England, she may find it more difficult than usual to get cooperation from the male authorities for no reason other than because they perceive her as female. Surely some stories are going to focus on that...and the Doctor finding a way to work around it.

But I agree. Those sort of stories need to be minimized (especially in her first season) and just let Jodie be the Doctor.

Posted by aliehs (# 18878) on :

Saw it twice, bless the ABC. Got more out of it the second time. Capaldi got the isolation of being beyond time/space very well. And I thought David Bradley was terrific; I am so sick of him playing nasty old men with sadistic tendencies. Never got the point of Matt Lucas's character , so was somewhat surprised to see him appear. Great to see Jenna briefly again, but where were River and Captain Jack? Oh wait, am I getting my Doctors mixed up? I thought they had an ongoing memory within a changing body. Looking forward to the new series. In the meantime, my beloved Aunty ABC is showing two episodes a day at different times-and my mental agility is kept alert as they are varying the doctors. So far we have Tennant and Capaldi on at different times. It makes an old lady very happy.

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :

Just saw it.

Really enjoyed it.

I loved the regeneration scene. Brilliant. Looks like we've got a great first episode.

The cinematography. Wow! Really well done. The WWI scenes particularly, and I loved the fact a real event was portrayed for the Christmas special, and a time of peace in an episode where the war doctor was mentioned so much.

Loved the first doctor. And seeing Bill and Clara took my breath away. I'll miss you Peter. Bring on Jodie!

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
"Oh, Brilliant." and spoken in her own Huddersfield accent.

I can just see how how this will pan out when The Doctor next meets the Daleks."What the chuff are you doin'. Tha great tin wazzocks." Sounds about right.
Aha! Didn't notice the accent. Fantastic!

Oh, please please please... [Yipee]

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

New Doctors always hated their appearance, with Tennant it as the teeth. It was so refreshing for a new doctor's reaction to be positive, which is why I loved "Brilliant."

There has to be some mention of being female in the first episode, I hope it does not get in the way of the story.

Jodie had better brush up on her running, it's a requirement of the job. There's at least one meet alien-run-plan-return-win episode each series.

Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
There has to be some mention of being female in the first episode, I hope it does not get in the way of the story.

There doesn't. There has to be when paths cross with someone who knows the Dr (Daleks, historical, Unit, Cybermen, Time Lords **), or if the Dr trades on his* reputation.
But if it starts out meeting a future companion, and then the problem is solved by the Dr just being a genius and paying attention. Then you could have an episode where everyone just assumes that she's everything a Dr should be without having to tell. (I bet they don't, and I hope it doesn't get in the way), but just in case they are reading...

*it started out by accident.
**at least one of these can subvert it.

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :

I think the thing about being a woman will be a doddle to keep out of the way for most viewers, but an impossibility for some. The second type of viewer will have their phone at the ready, tweeting their outrage.

As for working on your running style, if they cast me as the Doctor everyone would be reminded of Mr Gatis' former dancing troupe, "Legs Akimbo".

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