Thread: Hell: F*$#! in the middle of the service. Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by ej (# 2259) on :
 
Recently, a friend of mine very aptly described the frustration of church and worship sometimes as "wanting to stand up in the middle of the service and just yell 'F*$#!' at the top of your lungs".

So I'm curious - What experiences, moments or general frustrations have lead you to want to do this? Feel free to describe in hideous detail and join in the collective chorus of 'F*$#!'

Ah, I'm feeling better already...

(expletives cunningly disguised to avoid offending the visually sensitive)

[ 19. June 2003, 00:02: Message edited by: Sarkycow ]
 

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Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 3251) on :
 
We recently sang at a wedding. The groom was, I think, Senegalese, the bride English. We were fine, they were fine, the priest wanted shooting. After an excruciating and incomphrehensible 20 minute homily in English, I virtually had to be physically restrained from shouting "Shut the F3@% up!" when he took it again from the top in shamefully bad French.

For crimes against multiculturism....
 

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Posted by multipara (# 2918) on :
 
Well, he WAS Polish.....
 

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Posted by ej (# 2259) on :
 
I have so many, but I'll be patient and post slowly...

I was visiting my (now) wife's church (big Pentecostal type thing in a very upper new-money middle-class part of Melbourne), when the minister (whose family basically owns the church and acts accordingly) started preaching about family and children, and basically said "if you're married and don't have kids yet, you're very selfish people who aren't carrying out God's will"...

F&$^! ... for so many reasons...

I would've smacked him if he hadn't been standing on their almighty 8ft high stage... Prat.
 

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Posted by multipara (# 2918) on :
 
Next time, take your shanghai....

I had a similar reaction a few years ago during the sermon at St Francis Xavier Cathedral, Wollongong when the priest made the observation that one of the reasons for the clerical shortfall was that we wimmin weren't breeding enough...

I managed to flounce out just in time before uttering something REALLY rude.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Mother's Day, 1984, First Baptist Church, San Luis Obispo. The entire sermon was about the evil of women working outside the home. This in a congregation in which many of the women would have been very happy to stay home and raise children, if only they could have afforded it. And the church naturally employed a female secretary.

The only reason I didn't stand up and tell off the pastor was because it was my parents' church and most of the members knew I was their daughter, so it seemed like it would have made things uncomfortable for them. But my mother told me later she wouldn't have minded a bit if I had.
 

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Posted by marmot (# 479) on :
 
Maybe that's the time to set your little foot right down on the whoopee cushion you've cleverly hidden under the pew in front of you. The noise gets your point across, but nobody can blame it on you.
 

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Posted by Icarus Coot (# 220) on :
 
A sermon where the preacher informed me that there would be no second coming had me quietly saying to myself 'Shut up! Shut up! Would you please shut up! It's orright for you rich bastard with your fucking deanery and your car and your nice Oxford education and your high class lifestyle mixing it with the important people. But the rest of us. Well. You know. We're rather looking forward to something better.'

I felt 'harassed and helpless like a sheep without a shepherd'. So I hope he 'knows the greatness of the fault and the horrible punishment that will ensue'.
 

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Posted by golden key (# 1468) on :
 
Idjit bishop making a flip remark about child abuse.

Many idjit clergy making remarks on Mothers'/Fathers' Day assuming that all families are all sweetness and light.
 

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Posted by auntbeast (# 377) on :
 
I think I may have posted one of these on another thread but my two favourite F**K this noise stories are:

1) The Sunday of the breeder prayer - sparkling young man with large teeth, a very blonde big haired wife, two small well dressed though bratty little shits, and a pathetic sensible mini van, student at local evangelical theological college, offers the prayers of the people one Sunday. He proceeds to have all the single people stand up and prays that we all find good Godly husbands and wives. Then he makes all the married people stand up and prays that they all raise up their children in the ways of the Lord.... My whole home group was placing bets on whether I was just going to chuck a book at him or actually go airborne. Unfortunately the service ended shortly thereafter and the line up at coffee hour to have a piece of his throat was too long and I had to leave. From what they told me afterwards he didn't get how offensive he was, even after he was talked to politely by a single female M.Div and a married physician with at least as much theology as him. I suspect he eventually slithered off to some Christian ghetto where everyone breeds. We didn't see him much after that.

2) Guest fascist Sunday - An Elderly far right wing anti-women etc etc prof at local theological college who shall remain nameless came to guest lecture oops I mean preach at my former church. He was trying to rally the troops for some great big prayer thing at a local stadium to pray for the city and somehow managed to get his sermon round to the homosexuality issue. He started off by saying "let us be very clear what the gay agenda is in this city". I was just about to launch from my pew and ask him just how many gay people he actually knew, and just how he believed that he knew the "gay agenda" and just why he thought there was such a thing in the first place. Just as I was about to yell I looked at my watch and realised that I had a Fringe show to go to so I just got up and left as loudly as possible. As I was leaving this b**tard started to expound that the gay agenda was in fact to destroy the family. Needless to say I haven't inflicted him on myself again and have simply "voted with my feet" by not attending anything he is at.

I much prefer things at my current church. After the sermon there is a time for talk back, questions etc so if I just have to leap up and say "What the F**k are you talking about?" not only can I do it but other's will get in on the ensuing free-for-all until we are called back to order and communion by the celebrant.

All good things,
Auntbeast
 

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Posted by tomb (# 174) on :
 
"The Sunday of the Breeder Prayer"

"Guest Fascist Sunday"

It is clear, auntbeast, that you and I shall have to have some conversations about liturgical planning.
 

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Posted by Laudate Dominum (# 3104) on :
 
Let's see....

The liturgical dancers (who resembled neither anything liturgical nor dancers) dressed in cheap green costumes with leaves in their hair leaping about as the bishop went up to read the Gospel. F*@#!
 

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Posted by Paul W (# 1450) on :
 
The rather masterful bit of preaching yesterday, where the guy managed to slag off church tradition, Harry Potter AND Rowan Williams in one sermon. This from the same guy who the other week told us that homosexuals were a judgement on the country for turning away from God.

I'm going to get a big heavy hardback copy of the KJV, just so I can bang my head against it repeatedly during sermons.

Paul W
 

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Posted by golden key (# 1468) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul W:
The rather masterful bit of preaching yesterday, where the guy managed to slag off church tradition, Harry Potter AND Rowan Williams in one sermon. This from the same guy who the other week told us that homosexuals were a judgement on the country for turning away from God.

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Oh, my, all that in one sermon? Does he get extra points for each topic???

And homosexuals *as* a judgement, rather than *triggering* some kind of judgement? That's a new one. Even Jerry Falwell didn't say that. (He so kindly blamed gays and others as causing God to remove his protection of the US, and therefore allow 9/11.)

You know, we'd be happy to send JF over to straighten your preacher out. Postage paid!
 

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Posted by The Milkman of Human Kindness (# 7) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by auntbeast:

2) Guest fascist Sunday - An Elderly far right wing anti-women etc etc prof at local theological college who shall remain nameless came to guest lecture oops I mean preach at my former church... somehow managed to get his sermon round to the homosexuality issue.

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We had one of those. He was a Christian doctor, and was supposed to be talking about sexuality in general. He did the same thing and then said - no lie - "and transexuals - well, they're just weird."

I nearly went ape. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE A DOCTOR, YOU ARSEBISCUIT!

*cough* sorry. Got carried away there.
 

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Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
I was not going to mention this but then this thread came up, a sign I’m sure. I am in the middle of a few days off so I decided to go to another church nearby for a change. I was kind of looking forward to it. I’d heard it was a thriving Evangelical C of E church with a good tradition of warmth and Music. I thought I would not MW it as I wanted to simply enjoy a service I was not leading. I went in and found a nice pew and settled down in lovely clean warm surroundings. Loads of middle aged, middle classed people, chat etc felt like the C of E. Sigh……… things that so nearly made me say F**K out loud would include (and this is not a definitive list) :

The reader having no liturgical sense whatsoever. “Alllllllllllllllllllllllmighty God ………… “ ‘til we all joined in.

The very pleasant choir and organist behaving in a fascistic manner and hogging all the best bits whilst the congregation stood like sheep some trying to sing along some looking lost.

The sermon which basically said that it was Mary’s fault for leaving the boy Jesus in Jerusalem not his fault for running off like a little brat. And we are like her for taking our eyes of God. No mention of the fact that God is a sneaky so and so and seems to take delight in hiding.

All of which I could live with because I have seen it all (and probably done most of it) before BUT and don’t get me wrong this is no anti – anything rant, just a simple F**K moment. What really got my goat was the priests attitude to the elements. He honest to God did not look at them, touch them in any way or pay them any reverence at all. Let me explain this was the parish communion for over 100 people. They came here for this. It was the standard C of E Common Worship rite, very similar to what we use every Sunday, what I would call “low” church but I knew that. However this fella kept both his hands firmly on the service book and simply read the words. He ignored the elements absolutely. No respect, no reverence, no, sense of prayer, no sense of remembrance. I distinctly remember muttering “Fuck me” under my breath does that count?

P
 

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Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
I once went, many many years ago, to an extremely charismatic service. And - I kid you not - people were invited to run up to the front and touch the preacher as a 'declaration of faith' that they would get their 'special blessing'.

I have not gone back.

There are loads more, but to be honest I am trying to block them from my memory at the moment.
 

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Posted by The one & only Nanny Ogg (# 1176) on :
 
Went to a Women's Day last year - and all seemed to be fine until it came to the "words of knowledge"

A hall full of women and from the front comes "I feel there is someone here who is trying for a baby" - Ok there may have been one person there but the the classic "There's someone here with a headache"

I mean - to a room full of women????

Talk about hedging your bets on the side of success - I'm surprised the whole hall didn't get and move to the front after that one.

Did make me doubt whether the teaching and prophecy during the first part of the day had been genuine.
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
The next time I am preaching one of my specially prepared....... long...... <sigh>...... boring..... <ho-hum>.......very....... very..... very..... long................ drawn ......... <stifled yawn>..... out..... sermons, and the congregation, as a man (or a woman?) stand up together and shout 'Shut the F*%$ up!' I shall know why

Sadly, the moments when I would most like to yell a full-bodied 'oh, F*&$ off!' during divine service happen when I am front of church, so the only response likely to be forthcoming would be the usual half-hearted 'And also with you'...... Dare me to try it some day, go on, dare me, dare me!
 

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Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
Okay, I dare you
 

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Posted by Clyde (# 752) on :
 
So do I.
 

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Posted by golden key (# 1468) on :
 
Anselmina!
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
C'mon. You all know I'm a cowardly custard! I need the pension! If I get excommunicated this early on I wouldn't have enough for a one-man tent on retirement! I'm just day-dreaming again....

It's quite true, we stipendiary ministers are just time-serving jobsworths holding out til the big pay-off <ironic grunt>! Besides I save all my profanities for finance meetings and discussions with (and about) the organist...
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
I think the technical term is "hireling priests in steeple-houses"
 

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Posted by The Machine Elf (# 1622) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by The one & only Nanny Ogg:
from the front comes "I feel there is someone here who is trying for a baby"

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Actually during the service?

TME
 

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Posted by OgtheDim (# 3200) on :
 
Some twit of a "revered academic" preaches in a church I went to. He csme from the local "Yuppie palace" church, daughtered out of ours many moons ago. He calls the older church he is in "unfriendly", in his sermon; meanwhile, his home church only cares for you if you fit into their clique or if you make the photos for the denominational magazine look good.



He moved to BC and got even more right wing.
 

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Posted by Mad Geo (# 2939) on :
 
Some friends of mine decided to try out a new church as they had just moved to Kentucky. The lady of the family had decided to wear a lovely sleeveless dress that was in most ways conservative, except for the sleeveless part.

The pastor decided to not-so-subtly change the sermon in mid-stream to address the immodesty of women showing shoulders in church.

I would previously have said that they did not go back, but the good news is that the congregation there evidently had that pastor removed around two months later and my friends were welcomed back.

My current church of the same denomination would welcome a ragged beggar (and has). Thank GOD.
 

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Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Originally posted by ChrisT

quote:

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I once went, many many years ago, to an extremely charismatic service. And - I kid you not - people were invited to run up to the front and touch the preacher as a 'declaration of faith' that they would get their 'special blessing'.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ej:
Recently, a friend of mine very aptly described the frustration of church and worship sometimes as "wanting to stand up in the middle of the service and just yell 'F*$#!' at the top of your lungs".

(expletives cunningly disguised to avoid offending the visually sensitive)

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Recently, I have found myself in the middle of one of my own sermons wanting to shout F%&*$£"
Do I really believe this, really, truly, madly deeply? Is this really me here preaching to these mostly uninterested souls or some deeply dishonest theological, ecclesiological mask?
Is this a crisis of faith or just normal, run of the mill existential trauma?
 

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Posted by JimT (# 142) on :
 
I was in a rapidly evangelicalizing Episcopal church near Camp Pendelton in Oceanside, CA, in 1985 listening to an ardent, mid-30's colonel from West Virginia waxing more and more emotive in the climbing strains of "The King is Coming," strumming ever more wildly, empathically, and Marine Corpically, during the formerly "quiet time" preparatory to worship. The meanest, snarliest, crotchedly old lady in the church, who always wore the same ugly little black hat and never said a word except to express dismay over the informalizing of the worship, scowled more and more deeply until she finally yelled "COULD WE HAVE A LITTLE PEACE AND QUIET PLEASE?" The colonel immediately stopped, bowed his head in prayer, and walked off to put his guitar away.

It was hilarious and poignant in the same moment.

The colonel got his revenge during a subsequent Wednesday praise service where he made it not only to the final "Praise God, he's coming for me!" but added an impromptu "Come Jesus, come!" above the final phrase, somewhere in the range of A, G, B-flat, A (Pavarotti-land). He wasn't too bad for a self-taught West Virginia hayseed. If you don't know the song you can hear it here. Listen all the way through and you get a sense of white Southern (US) Gospel.

I managed to cry listening to it just now. Col. Johnny Knight died about six months after this incident leaving a wife and two teenage boys. Liver cancer. No real way of knowing why, but he did walk a lot of point on recon in 'Nam. Maybe I'll get up the strength to post on the Iraq war thread some day. Maybe not.
 

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Posted by Celaino (# 3913) on :
 
My two top moments must be...

1) At a church I used to attend, the sermon focused on the evils of homosexuality, which was the last straw really, since I had also recently discovered that this church did not allow female preachers, but, ahem, had managed to keep this hidden from the majority of the congregation. We just thought it coincidence that we had no female clergy. Facing a fellow member of the congregation afterwards I confonted her on these two issues, to be met with the reply, 'well, I suppose it must be Biblical as the church says so' Aaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! Needless to say I have never set foot in the place again... (Mindless zombies... mutter... mutter...)

2) It gets worse (no, really) - a visiting preacher to a mixed group of students in a rather broad ecumenical chapel. Her sermon focused on the scandal of child organ retention at various UK hospitals, a tricky subject, you'd agree. She tackled it with the sensitivity of a rampaging elephant, suggesting that the parents of the children were making a bit of a fuss over nothing and that objecting to cremation was nonsense. She also wandered haphazardly through some Bible quotations finding 'good' reason to condemn both Jews and Catholics as she went. This to a group of people she'd never met, which included people of virtually every protestant denomination, not to mention the Catholics and the Jew in the choir!! I can't tell you how it ended as I had to leave before I started frothing at the mouth. I got up, marched out, and to make my point I slammed the anteChapel door which made a satisfying 'boom' which echoed round the chapel cloisters. I do know that the collection didn't get taken that evening...

Thank you for letting me rant, I'm normally a very placid creature

Oh and, AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
Some of these . . . uh . . . moments make mine look like nothing. (Although a couple posts made me want to yell an expletive at the poster. Forgive me. )

But here's my moment anyway. The guest preacher at my old evangelical Presbyterian church said from the pulpit something along the lines of: "We don't believe the Bible. We believe the Jesus behind the Bible."

Speak for yourself. I believe the Bible -- as does Jesus.

I confronted her after the service.
 

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Posted by ej (# 2259) on :
 
Originally posted by Arch-

quote:

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Recently, I have found myself in the middle of one of my own sermons wanting to shout F%&*$£"
Do I really believe this, really, truly, madly deeply? Is this really me here preaching to these mostly uninterested souls or some deeply dishonest theological, ecclesiological mask?
Is this a crisis of faith or just normal, run of the mill existential trauma?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Celaino:

I can't tell you how it ended as I had to leave before I started frothing at the mouth. I got up, marched out, and to make my point I slammed the anteChapel door which made a satisfying 'boom' which echoed round the chapel cloisters. I do know that the collection didn't get taken that evening...

Thank you for letting me rant, I'm normally a very placid creature

Oh and, AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sounds like my son when a kid; the minister was talking during the last Iraqi war of how wonderful it was that Bibles were being taken into Saudi by American troops and so God obviously was favouring the war. Son stood up noisily, knocking chairs out of the way, slammed through two sets of doors at the exit, which banged repeatedly as the minister gaped open-mouthed, and some of the congregation giggled while others tut-tutted.

 

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Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :
 
(a) I was once in a service (at a church I no longer attend) where the preacher decided to illustrate his point about society worshipping sex instead of God, with the immmortal phrase "they put the penis on a pedestal", since he was in full rant mode at the time, this then contiued with "On a pedestal, they put it on a pedestal, the penis! the penis! On a pedestal!" or words to this effect. Need I say more? It was a cheering surprise to learn that at this (very, very) evangelical church, the gurus of the tape archive had actually filed this talk under "the penis on a pedestal sermon", although I don't think anyone has borrowed the tape.

(b) The same preacher once instrructed every single male in the congregation over the age of 21 to get down on his knees by his bed that night and pray for God to send him a wife.

(c) However, personally, my most regular "Oh $*&%!" moment, comes when the leader of our informal services announces "And now, as a form of prayer or meditation, we will use that wonderful song..... Jesus, take me as I am. Anyone who doesn't know this song..... well, maybe I will allow you to continue in blissful ignorance....!

All the best,

Rachel.
 

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Posted by DaveC (# 155) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Beenster:
Fortunately, God didn't tell anyone to minister to me, but God did tell me to leave PDQ.

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I'm surprised you needed God to tell you this! Couldn't you have worked it out for yourself?

[Couldn't you have worked the code out for yourself?]

[ 21. January 2003, 23:23: Message edited by: sarkycow ]
 

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Posted by nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 
this doesn't exactly fall into this category but its close enough that i want to share it.

as i've mentioned, i have a mentaly handicapped brother. he's autistic. autistics get frustrated very easily. my btother particularly.

once when we were all kids, my family church had a special weekend event... i forget the details, but there were all sorts of small groups and things, all culmenating in a big church dinner sunday night.

well we all went to the dinner. scott really wanted his food. but the minister did a talk first. scott started getting upset. then the minister had us for a big circle holding hands. then he asked us all, "what did we think of the weekend" or somesuch question. long silence. then scott, frustrated beyond control at this point, suddenly and loudly came out with "oh sh*t!"

guess that told 'em!
 

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Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
Heh, heh. Good for Scott!

If I were clever I would have said, "Well, the food is excellent, and I'm really eager to enjoy this wonderful dinner that these good people have READY for us."
 

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Posted by Misercordia Adulterina Killsin (# 3968) on :
 
Y'all make it sound like yelling fuck in church is so unusual!?
 

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Posted by kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 
Most of my horror stories stem from my career as a DJ at a Christian-oriented AM radio station in Waco, Texas. (Until you've seen the fringe of Christendom in the American South, you've never seen Truly Weird.) We used to run taped teaching programs Sunday mornings, and one morning I heard a Seventh Day Adventist preacher say that anyone who did *not* read the KJV version of th Bible was going to Hell.

Another great quote was from John Brown, a pastor who founded John Brown University in Arkansas. He used the immortal phrase, "jazz drunk women" in describing the evils of "modern" music. (These tapes were from the 40s and 50s, I believe.) I have been saving that name to use as the name of a band or of something equally worthy.

Remember the Challenger Seven disaster? Some "let's record the program on my cassette recorder in my living room" type of woman in Gatesville (about an hour from Waco) titled her program, "The Challenger Seven Crusade for Christ."

A radio preacher whose name I don't recall sponsored "leper control centers" somewhere in Africa, and would ask for money every show.

One evening when I was in college in Waco, some friends and I went to a Bob Larson appearance, where the owner of a Christian-oriented radio station in Ft. Worth led the audience in the cheer, "Gimme a J! Gimme an E! Gimme an S!...." (Ditto for Bob's topics as well.)
 

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Posted by Sauerkraut (# 3112) on :
 
I've mentioned this on the "Crappy choruses and horrible hymns" thread, but it is worth mentioning here because it did make me want to yell "F^@#!!!"
My church has a way of slicing up the liturgy in ways that would drive any liturgical conservative (like me) insane. No Kyrie, no intriot, the hymn of praise is not what is persribed, but we always have time for a soloist to sing a stupid (and theologically unsound) song from the CCM racks or the chior trying to pretend they are black. The preface, the proper preface and the sancus are almost alwys MIA along with the Nunc Dimintus. Call this "the liturgy in an hour or less." As if that isn't enough to make me yell "F$%^&!!" at times, they like to use CCM more extensivesly replacing the wonderful hymnody us Lutherans inherited from our prediscesors. Our church has a lovely pipe organ. It plays Bach, Handel, and famous hymns with wonderful flair and grace. At times, it's been wasted on the song, "Shine, Jesus, Shine." I never knew a pipe organ couls sound something like a dying whale. I found out quickly, once this song began, that a pipe organ can make many of the sounds of nature, mainly sounds of death, but sounds nonetheless. After hearing it, I thought my fillings would fall out, my appendix would burst, and my head would explode. I know which of my pastors was responsible for this attrocity. Believe me, I would leave except that I was suckered into helping directing our bell chiors. Since no one else really wants to do it, I can make a few demands of the church. My demands might be getting tougher. I should bring this up in the next voter's assembly. Anyway, If any of you ever hear "Shine, Jesus, Shine" played on a pipe organ, get up out of your pew, plug your ears, and make the biggest distraction possible by yelling "F*&^%!!!" while running down the aisle.
 

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Posted by auntbeast (# 377) on :
 
From OgtheDim:

quote:

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He moved to BC and got even more right wing.

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OK, the curiosity is killing me.... did he per chance land at Regent College?

Just being nosy,

Auntbeast
 

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Posted by ThatsMrJuice2U (# 3076) on :
 
This thread makes me wax nostalgic for the time I lived in the American South, went to a church that followed in the Copeland/Hagin faith/prosperity vein.

Some choice moments (please hold your until the end):

- The time our associate pastor proclaimed in the pulpit that Rush Limbaugh was a prophet used by God to help our nation bring back our moral virtues.
- We used to have John Avanzini visit as guest pastor sometimes, a classic prosperity preacher. One time he announced he was going to speak a hundredfold return over the offering, at his command. One other time he told us that 80% of the currency in the United States was "underground" or currently unaccouted for, and God was laying up these treasures of the wicked to give to His righteous people.
- I recently went back and visited the city I used to live, visited a new church pastored by someone I used to know. He said that faith was like money in the Kingdom of God. He also punctuated a sermon about Holy Spirit power by having the sound man play at various times during his sermon, snippets of that dance club classic "I've got the Pooooooower!" It certainly woke everyone up, at least.
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I remember a service in a church somewhere in the South of England - independent, charismatic. The preacher was a young guest from the states, over for a few weeks.

He started by announcing that he hadn't prepared anything. Not good. That didn't stop him from talking for about 20 minutes, broadly on the well known text "fe fi fo fum, I smell the blood of an Englishman".

I walked out as soon as I could.
 

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Posted by mimsey (# 3757) on :
 
The time a visiting preacher held up a Bible and uttered the words,

"This is everything I know about God".

Feelings mingled between F*$# and sheer pity that his God was small enough to fit right inside his Bible and not ever overflow it.

I'm pleased to say, though, that at a later point in the same talk, somebody (not me) did stand up and shout at him, and was applauded by the rest of the listeners!
 

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Posted by Merseymike (# 3022) on :
 
Mark the Punk complained about a preacher who said:

quote:

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"We don't believe the Bible. We believe the Jesus behind the Bible."

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Quite right too. She should be congratulated for explaining why Christianity - following Christ - is not Bibliolatry


 

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Posted by Kyzyl (# 374) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Anselmina:

Dare me to try it some day, go on, dare me, dare me!

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I triple dog dare you.

[Learn to code oh longest apprentice]

[ 21. January 2003, 23:28: Message edited by: sarkycow ]
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Mine's kind of pathetic, but when the priest (not the one at my regular church) uses, unexpectedly and without warning, "Creator, Christ, and Holy Spirit" for the blessing, or in general as a replacement for the actual Trinity. I want to scream "MODALISM! MO-DA-LI-ZUMMMM!!" at the top of my lungs.



I want to avoid going there again. Been there twice for a weekday service when I missed Sunday at my own church, and this should help keep me going to my own...
 

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Posted by Jesuitical Lad (# 2575) on :
 
When a priest (not at my normal church) decided that halfway through the gospel was a good time to start engaging in historico-critical speculations on the authenticity of Jesus' sayings as reported by John. Having come to the conclusion Jesus didn't really say what was about to be read in the second half of the gospel, he then finished the interruption by saying that he was only telling us this to be "honest".

I had several words running through my mind at the time, but "honest" was not one of them.


 

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Posted by brodavid (# 460) on :
 
The only time I can think of was when a guest preacher at our church was passionately denouncing the decline of American culture, and specificly mentioned the horrible case in Texas in which a mentally disturbed woman (I forget the name.) drowned all of her children in the bathtub. The preacher lamented the fact that she had escaped the death penalty, and said, "If you don't want her killed, then there's something wrong with you!" Only respect for my uncle, who is the pastor, kept me from walking out, and I'm a conservative. The guest preacher hasn't been back. The really sad part is that when this man simply preaches the Gospel, instead of all his political/cultural stuff, he's very powerful.
 

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Posted by Margaret (# 283) on :
 

quote:

---

We used to have John Avanzini visit as guest pastor sometimes, a classic prosperity preacher

---

Oh yes, he's even got as far afield (complete with warm-up man) as Bloxwich in the English West Midlands, where he gave me several F%@* moments in a service a few years ago. I think the bit I liked most was when we had to turn to one another and say "I wanna be (pause) DEBT-FREE!"
 

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Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
That's not a F*#^ moment, Margaret, that's a 'sit still, arms crossed, facing forward and refuse to do anything except perhaps stare coldly at the preacher' moment.
 

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Posted by ThatsMrJuice2U (# 3076) on :
 
Even better than that was the time I heard a radio sermon from Mr. Avanzini where he claimed Jesus was rich, and the apostle Paul was very wealthy too, with the reason he kept getting thrown in jail so often was because the authorities wanted to get their hands on his money.


 

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Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ej:
- Watching the church's youth deacon sit there through one of my youth group girls first sermons (at the age of 19 - poor thing was terrified but so excited) and just shake his head all the way through it, right in front of her...

---

Mr B regularly shakes his head in despair at our vicar's sermons. Before I was allowed to abscond back to 'my' church I'd developed a new scoring system for sermons: count the number of head shakes, whispered despairing groans, and - on the truly great occasion - fiercly whispered corrections. It's coming to something when even I could notice a few of the heresies beign preached.

I can't think of any particular F*#! moments, but there were numerous times that I wanted to stand up and challenge what was said - often the declaration that life nowadays is tougher than it has ever been. This to a wealthy, satisfied, middle-class congregation.

There was also the occasion of a friend's First Mass. At the end of the service, the congregation were invited forward to kiss the hand of the new priest. Not so much F*$#! as Hell, no!
 

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Posted by Jo Jo (# 3836) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Misercordia Adulterina Killsin:
Y'all make it sound like yelling fuck in church is so unusual!?

---

It should be. Why do we feel that we should come out with expletives? I struggle very hard to NOT swear when I often feel like it. As Christians we should stand apart from the world, not conforming to it. That's not just a slur on you Misercordia Adulterina Killsin, but on anyone who endorses it.

Now, I wonder if I get anyone supporting me here...
 

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Posted by Icarus Coot (# 220) on :
 
Stand back darling heart, I am about to shield you with my eff-word distributing body. No greater love and all that.

I know my fellow posters are going to cut you some slack. Aren't you fellow posters?
 

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Posted by Jo Jo (# 3836) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Icarus Coot:
Stand back darling heart, I am about to shield you with my eff-word distributing body. No greater love and all that.

I know my fellow posters are going to cut you some slack. Aren't you fellow posters?

---

quote:

---

Beethoven said:
There was also the occasion of a friend's First Mass. At the end of the service, the congregation were invited forward to kiss the hand of the new priest. Not so much F*$#! as Hell, no!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThatsMrJuice2U:
Even better than that was the time I heard a radio sermon from Mr. Avanzini where he claimed Jesus was rich, and the apostle Paul was very wealthy too, with the reason he kept getting thrown in jail so often was because the authorities wanted to get their hands on his money.

---

What does he do with that "no place to lay his head" passage?
 

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Posted by ThatsMrJuice2U (# 3076) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by brodavid:

What does he do with that "no place to lay his head" passage?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by brodavid:
What does he do with that "no place to lay his head" passage?

---

Betcha we could come up with suggestions about what he could do with it though.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Dear Jo Jo,

Hi, and welcome to the Ship. It's good to see you jump right in and start posting in Hell.

Most people who come into Hell understand the tone and atmosphere fairly well, but occasionally we get someone who doesn't. I'm sure you do understand, and were just entering into the spirit of Hell, with all the discord and disagreement that entails. If you were looking for a serious discussion of whether Christians should swear or not, then try Purgatory.

Hope this helps, enjoy wandering the decks,

Viki, hellhost
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Three different moments. Don't see why I shouldn't name the churches involved:

Easter retreat at Worth Abbey. We are told "Communion for Catholics is at the altar; there is communion for Anglicans in the side chapel". What the F&)^( am I, neither Catholic nor Anglican, supposed to do? To give them credit, I went back the following year and they treated confession much more sensitively, if you wanted to make a confession you were invited to but if you "weren't used to confession or didn't feel ready" you could also ask to see a counsellor.

Service at St Aldate's in Oxford during the late, lamented Toronto Blessing. Various people started "holy laughter" at the hypnotis... sorry, suggestion of the minister. Some teenage girls started laughing at the whole idea. The minister was stupid enough to try and encourage them - can't he tell the difference between "touched by the Spirit/a sudden sheep-like mentality" and "teenage giggling"?

Service at St Helen's Bishopsgate. I should have known better when a friend said "it has good teaching"... have since learnt to avoid churches like that. In the sermon the minister not only preached against the evils of women priests and mentioned "backsliding" (in my games of Sermon Bingo I hadn't heard that one before - yes, I know I'm sheltered!), but he also slammed all other kinds of Sunday School material - other than the one they wanted to introduce - "some of these Sunday Schools are just play school!". Heaven forbid that children should play!!!
 

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Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
Yes, I used to go to Worth quite a lot in the 80s Chuk. One time I was with a group of friends from college who were Anglican (I was then a practising Catholic), again at Easter. And my best friend was on the verge of tears at being excluded from the communion. IRC there wasn't any provision for Anglicans at all. And IRC I didn't go to communion either and stayed in the pew with the people who were being excluded.

At least it's good that that is changing...

I really loved the main service at Greenbelt last year btw, just because it so cleverly got around this problem of how to manage distributing communion to a very large number of people, all from diffrent backgrounds...
 

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Posted by Zipporah (# 3896) on :
 
Oh help! There are some right cranks out there aren't there - it would be funny if it weren't so serious!

My "F@*& r&*£$% off" moment is very mild in comparison - we had a laity trainee preahing one week. The essence of her sermon was that things like
epilepsy, diabetes, ME, mental health problems, are not medical issues they are spiritual ones, be warned brothers and sisters that demons are alive and well and operating amongst us today make-no-mistake-about-that"!

It is the only time I wish I had got up and marched out - only trouble being I am in the choir and rather shy. So I had to endure her poisonous drivel. It was only after the service was over I found out that several others had wanted to do the same thing.
 

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Posted by Calypso (# 3692) on :
 
I can't count the number of times I've had the overwhelming urge to get up and scream in the middle of church. In fact I haven't been to church for years.

#(*&$ moment #1)Being someone with mild Autistic tendencies, I have little tolerance for loud noises so everytime they start singing I want to hide under the pew... mind you, that's no ones fault. The problem was, because I stood there looking pained and refused to sing or wave my arms around people came to the conclusion that I wasn't a good christian and that I was having "issues". They don't seem to understand that not eveyone likes to dance around in the isle like a maniac... yeesh.

#$&*( moment #2) The event that eventually led to me leaving that church was centered around the youth group (for highschoolers). I was 16 and had already been involved with the youth group for several years. Now that year, they introduced us to our new youth pastor and I must say I instantly disliked him. To be frank... he was an idiot. Anyway... most of the kids were between 14, 15 or 16 and to be honest most of them were spoiled brats who didn't give a rats arse about anyone but themselves. But he thought they were wonderful and told them so. He didn't like me though. I think he didn't trust me because I was different... I even got the impression he was afraid of me . As a result I was totally ignored by my peers *and* the youth pastor. This I could tolerate but the final straw was when he was giving a sermon one Saturday night (He was also very inarticulate "aks" instead of "ask"... Psssh!) and he got onto the topic of todays youth and proceeded to single out a particular member of the youth group, a 14 year old girl from my school, and talk about how wonderful she was. He then went on to tell us that we should all follow her example etc etc and made a few pointed remarks which I'm sure were aimed at the likes of me. What was ironic is that this girl was a little tart who was only interested in sex and went on to work as a prostitute at Firecats .
 

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Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
A church I no longer attend (hmmm ... there's a pattern here) had a visiting preacher who had lectured all week on figures from recent church history. He'd been very good at this, and I had no idea he was also a prosperity nut.

Sunday's sermon was all about how he was so thankful that God had blessed him with a beautiful house, pool, car, wife (yeah, probably in that order) etc etc. And how he wasn't going to share them with others, because that would deprive them of the opportunity to experience these blessings directly from God.

I didn't yell any expletives (though it might have been fun), but I pointedly walked out.
 

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Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Machine Elf:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The one & only Nanny Ogg:
from the front comes "I feel there is someone here who is trying for a baby"

---

Actually during the service?

TME

---

Well, obviously. Didn't you read the thread title?
 

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Posted by Curious (# 93) on :
 
The F@&* moment in the church I used to attend was when the vicar decided in the middle of the service that £3000 should be given to a local charity. No discussion, just a word of knowledge.

The fact that we were facing a deficit budget seemed to have passed him by....

(He also used to tell us of holy moments he'd had on the toilet - but I guess that's not a really F@&* moment.)

Curious
 

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Posted by adso (# 2895) on :
 
Years ago a friend of mine said "Oh f**k this" at the altar rail and stormed out - the priest had just given him a blessing instead of communion. As far as we could work out it was because he is unusually short and the priest tended to assume that everyone under a certain height was too young to have been confirmed yet.
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curious:

(He also used to tell us of holy moments he'd had on the toilet - but I guess that's not a really F@&* moment.)

Curious

---

No, more a fart moment
 

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Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 3251) on :
 
Another f@#$!! moment.

A dear friend of mine, who is not a regular churchgoer, but is sympathetic, as it were, went to the funeral of the mother of a mutual friend, Louise.

The deceased was a fine, staunch Anglican of the old school and the parishioner of a parish on the North Shore of Sydney for 50 years. So naturally her funeral service took place at the church she had worshipped at for so many years.

The priest who had known her for most of that time could not be there, so the service was taken by a new, young priest.

It all started well. The old lady's son and daughter said some words about the old lady and then our mutual friend read a beautiful passage she had chosen from St Paul's letter to the Corinthians. The young priest then stood up and preached a sermon.

Here is what my friend said about it: "For 20 minutes, this priestling gave us a university lecture on the correct interpretation of a few words from this passage that poor Louise had chosen quite unwittingly. It was for all the world as if he was discussing his theology essay with his tutor. He had a captive audience there of mostly non-churchgoers and he said nothing about the old lady and her life in that parish."

I said "But he wasn't the priest who knew her."

He said "Yes, but even so he could have found out and his audience might have wanted to hear some words of comfort from him about the soul, about God and the afterlife and might have been influenced by them. What they got was a critical analysis of a few words of the Bible. At least six people at that service have said to Louise and to me how angry they were about it. I thought it was stupid and insensitive."
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curious:
(He also used to tell us of holy moments he'd had on the toilet - but I guess that's not a really F@&* moment.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by adso:
Years ago a friend of mine said "Oh f**k this" at the altar rail and stormed out - the priest had just given him a blessing instead of communion. As far as we could work out it was because he is unusually short and the priest tended to assume that everyone under a certain height was too young to have been confirmed yet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:
Easter retreat at Worth Abbey. We are told "Communion for Catholics is at the altar; there is communion for Anglicans in the side chapel". What the F&)^( am I, neither Catholic nor Anglican, supposed to do?

---

If you are a member of Christ's Church and you are in England, you naturally fall under the umbrella of the Church of England.
 

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Posted by Linus (# 3961) on :
 
I fall under the umbrella of the church of england? If that's not a cause for expletives, i don't know what is

L:>
 

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Posted by Merseymike (# 3022) on :
 
It depends on the individual congregation. Our church gives all adults Communion, but children who attend the church are blessed until they go through confirmation.
This may be a question of whether confirmation is seen as valuable in itself or not. Its often referred to as The Great Exit, particularly amongst priests, as more often than not after the child is confirmd, they disappear. Too often it is used as an entrance into a church school, rather than Church itself.
We probably need a new Purgatorial thread on this one...
 

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Posted by Second Mouse (# 2793) on :
 
More of a "Don't be so ridiculous" moment, than anything stronger. It happened in a church where the vicar was more charismatically inclined that the congregation and was rather prone to chivying us along:

"After the next song we will have a spontaneous round of applause"

I'm sorry, but what definition of spontaneous was he using?

Claire
 

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Posted by trying hard (# 3914) on :
 
We have a recognized Race Relations Sunday in the Baptist church. Our pastor at that time was a retired Naval chaplain, who had preached in our church before he even graduated from seminary and had returned to the fold after retirement from the USN. He proposed that we share services with one of the local "black" Baptist churches, one Sunday in our church, the next in theirs. Outwardly everyone was all for it. Privately, several of our lovely, God-fearing members called him and told him if "those people" came, they( the members) would never darken our doors again. Pesonally, I think we would be infinitely better off without them.

Anyway, now every time I hear one of them prat on about loving God and working on a relationship with God, I just want to yell"You flaming hypocrites!!How can you sit there and talk about loving God when you reject so many of his children!!!"

Of course, I take every opportunity to get in some little digs every chance I get(they don't know I know obout their call). I do this because I want them to think about the error of their ways, and because I am a wicked person.
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by anglicanrascal:

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:
What the F&)^( am I, neither Catholic nor Anglican, supposed to do?

---

If you are a member of Christ's Church and you are in England, you naturally fall under the umbrella of the Church of England.

---

Not if you are a non-conformist, and don't want to belong to an established church.
 

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Posted by anglicanrascal (# 3412) on :
 
Good heavens - as if "what you want" plays any part in your spiritual status. I can't imagine that any of this non-denominational stuff is proper and legal.
 

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Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
How about singing a particularly dirge-ike chorus (which went, ironically "celebrate, let's celebrate...") to which no one was clapping along?And having the part time curate, who was standing next to me, digging me in the ribs and urging me to clap, all the way through? (With me folding my arms and growling "nope" through gritted teeth?) Would that do for spontaneous?
 

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Posted by anglicanrascal (# 3412) on :
 
I confess that I didn't think of using any words beginning with "F", but the only time I have walked out of church was in one of the St Augustine's in Manchester Diocese (or perhaps in +Beverley's Diocese to be more exact).

Some pretentious AC prat ranted out a sermon suggesting that if we hadn't prayed to Mary during our lifetimes ("ignoring the graces of the Blessed Virgin" or some other nonsense), then when we got to heaven Jesus would coldly introduce us, saying, "This is my mother. I don't believe you have met" before turning us away from the pearly gates.

I had quite patiently endured the seven or so Marian hymns that had preceded the sermon during the course of the service, even joining in the verses that weren't blatantly idolatrous (liberal, ain't it?).

I wanted to be able to bang the door as I walked out, but I remember there was some hitch - an automatic door closer, or padding (or the incense soup getting in the way of the door) or something. Anyway, the crash I wanted to make was little more than a dull thud.

To be fair, some of the congregation had just got back from a pilgrimage to the (popish) shrine at Walsingham, so maybe they were still a bit drugged up from the atmosphere down there - but still, a little to OTT for pore little ole me.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zipporah:
It is the only time I wish I had got up and marched out - only trouble being I am in the choir and rather shy. So I had to endure her poisonous drivel.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linus:
I fall under the umbrella of the church of england? If that's not a cause for expletives, i don't know what is

L:>

---

The umbrella of the Church of England? Have things got so bad that we can only afford one!?

It's better than falling under the jurisdiction of a bishop: smelly and dark in there....
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I think I mentioned this F@*&$ moment on the old boards once, but what the h$#*. We were on holiday in the north of England about eight years ago, visiting the local parish church on a Sunday. The church was lovely, unspoiled, very rural. The congregation was small and elderly. The vicar had chosen as his text Acts 21. When he got to verse 24, he remarked, offhand, "Isn't it just like the Jews to harp on about money?"

At that point I actually shouted "NO!" much to the embarrassment of my family.
**
Another great F%#$ moment came in a diocesan assembly in Boston. One young man, soon to be ordained and known to be favoured by the Bishop, came up to preach. "If Jesus were here now, do you know what he'd be saying?" he asked. "Do you know what he'd be saying? He'd be saying, 'Join a church group!'"
 

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Posted by Mrs Tubbs (# 440) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curious:
The F@&* moment in the church I used to attend was when the vicar decided in the middle of the service that £3000 should be given to a local charity. No discussion, just a word of knowledge.

The fact that we were facing a deficit budget seemed to have passed him by....

(He also used to tell us of holy moments he'd had on the toilet - but I guess that's not a really F@&* moment.)

Curious

---

quote:

---

Some pretentious AC prat ranted out a sermon suggesting that if we hadn't prayed to Mary during our lifetimes ("ignoring the graces of the Blessed Virgin" or some other nonsense), then when we got to heaven Jesus would coldly introduce us, saying, "This is my mother. I don't believe you have met" before turning us away from the pearly gates.

---

This is bad, why?

I am torn between my top three moments. The chap who suggested that there was no real point to the peace process between Israel and Palestine because God giving the Jews back their land was a sign that the end was nigh. Then there was the chap who began his sermon by explaining how some evo had rebuked the devil in Manchester, thus rendering all occult activity in Manchester impotent. I've always wondered how they knew??

However, I fear that my all time favourite (probably because it happened in a liberal m-o-r church, lets face it one expects these things in, er, other places) was a Reader who preached without notes for the first time, got thoroughly flummoxed, and told the congregation that earthquakes are good because it shows that the earth is still growing and that "Christianity is a violent religion. If you don't believe me look at christian countries like Ireland...or Israel". The fact that the passage he preached on hadn't been read in Church that morning was probably not ideal either.
 

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Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 
Way-hey, what fun; I just had my best F%*& moment last night, at a college chapel I sing at. Sorry if this is long or looks like a MW report, but I'm still steaming.

First of all, there was no congregation, just the choir, the chaplain and the two conscripted servers. Why? Because he doesn’t believe in advertising services, or even posting a music list. After all, People Should Know When There’s A Service. And Thursday a 6.15 is a perfectly normal time. But I digress.

During the first hymn, the chaplain realises he’s left something in the sacristy, and wanders back to get it (this is a typical college chapel, with the choir facing each other across the central aisle) and wanders back again, arms swinging as he goes. Two minutes later he goes over to the server, has a conversation which turns out to be about the credence table not being prepared, as the server then scurries down, gets a chalice, and scurries back.

The first lesson. The other server comes up from where he’s been standing by the door (looking very much like a bouncer), goes to the lectern, and sees there is no Bible there. He turns helplessly to the chaplain, who motions him to the altar, saying loudly, ‘Just use that one.’ So the server goes BEHIND THE ALTAR and reads from the Bible on the stand. Care to consecrate anything while you’re up there? No? Okay, have a seat.

Psalm – nope, forgotten, despite the chaplain’s hearing us rehearse it. So straight into the Gospel we go. The chaplain reads from the same Bible the server just did, but doesn’t pick it up, or hold the sides of the stand; no, he leans his weight on both hands on the altar while reading, never once looking up. Next the creed, also read without looking up, from behind the altar. So we’ve turned east like good little Anglicans and all we can focus on is him. Grand.

Intercessions – a server stands in front of the altar with what appears to be Super-Bob’s Handy Book Of Prayers For Those Who Can’t Be Arsed To Pray About Anything Relevant, and flips through it, lighting on three prayers, which are all right in themselves, but nothing to with Communion, a college chapel, an impending war, nothing like that. Ah well.

Communion – and here’s where the shortcomings of the condensed prayer book begin to manifest themselves – or at least in the hands of the liturgically-impaired. All the prayers are ploughed through at full speed, not allowing for any joining in, not even the prayer of humble access. We receive, sing the anthem, during which the chaplain and server have an extended conversation about I know not what as they perform the ablutions.

We mercifully reach the end, he announces the hymn, saying, “…which I must say, I have never sung before.” Truly, I don’t know if he meant it as a joke, or to lighten the atmosphere, or what. Just odd. We process outside, and the chaplain says that he would like some suggestions from the choir as to possible changes in the liturgy, because we were not overburdened with congregation this evening, were we, ha ha! – so it’s patently obvious that it’s the Prayerbook keeping them away, isn’t it.

Please, if there is a priest going spare nearby, come and rescue us. The worst part is, this happens every week.
 

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Posted by Clíona (# 2035) on :
 
There have been many F*$#! moments actually. Usually they've been in (Roman) Catholic churches in Ireland when the sermon ends up being totally irrelevant to the congregation and not based on the readings or Gospel at all. And then I suppose it's a mercy that it's only 5 minutes long.

I do remember one ranting priest from the parish church I went to as a child. It was at his masses that you could hear an audible groan from the congregation when he'd walk out. (There being 4 or 5 priests in the parish you never knew which one you were going to get.) Anyway, one memorable sermon was about the fact that 'planned' children are not God's wish. I suppose it was another way of sermonising about the evils of contraception, but the whole thing was saying that a married couple (of course the parents would always be married) should not try to plan how long they would wait before conceiving, as it was up to the Holy Spirit to control it, not them. To plan was wrong.

(Come to think of it, it reminds me of the 'Protestant' couple out of that memorable Monty Python song-sketch. The wife says something like: Blimey, those Catholics had a child every time they 'did it'. And the husband looks at their son and says: So did we. )
 

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Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
All together now 'Every sperm is saaaacred...'

I remember more than one sermon where the preacher-bloke (I very rarely heard a woman speak in churches I went to) said that if bad things happen to you it's because of unconfessed sin in your life. Maybe I'm evil, but I glean a certain modicum of pleasure watching their families falling apart.

Good grief, I'm glad to be out of charismania. But the alternatives sound pretty horrific as well!
 

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Posted by Touchstone (# 3560) on :
 
I used to attend a church which was one of five in the parish, so we saw the vicar only infrequently. One Sunday a new vicar, somewhat insecure and determined to crack the whip, chose to completely ignore the readings, season, rubrics etc., and devote his entire sermon to telling us to stop singing the nicene creed. Apparently God had revealed to the eminent cleric that we should say the creed from thenceforth. Five minutes in I was already wishing the ground would swallow me up when an old stalwart of the congregation leapt to his feet and shouted the vicar down. The only reason the enraged parishioner didn't say "Fuck" was that he was completely incoherent with fury.

We saw even less of that vicar after that...
 

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Posted by OgtheDim (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by auntbeast:
OK, the curiosity is killing me.... did he per chance land at Regent College?

Just being nosy,

Auntbeast

---

Auntbeast, could you pm me on this one; I am a little reluctant to go to public much here. I pmed you a few days ago and await a reply.

[Hopefully she'll also PM you the arcane secret of how to use Preview post.]

[ 26. January 2003, 05:18: Message edited by: RooK ]
 

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Posted by Toby (# 3522) on :
 
I do not make a habit of saying profanities, but nowadays I incresingly certainly think them. I recall going to a service at a youth church that had broken off from the Anlican diocese (rather acrimoniously and at considerable emotional cost to the adults in their former parish, and the young people who were not 'spiritual' enough to be invited) against my will as it was one of my youth group activities.
Anyway, there was some American chap there talking when the sporadic rain that comes and goes every half an hour at that time of year in Auckland started up and he paused, pointed up at the roof of the gymnasium, and declared "Hear that. The Bible says that rain is a symbol of teaching. Listen to what I have to say, for the rain has confirmed it as the word of the Lord..." or something to that effect. He also claimed to have caused various mystery snowstorms in various places when preaching in them as 'signs' of his spiritual power. He certainly had a fondness for meteorological phenomena.
Other moments include almost every sunday, when our preachers decide to go on for 40 minutes...
ugh
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
There was a Hell Fire and Brimstone preacher in church one morning. He was also a boring old fart. The hymns were really good, but the sermon was a pile of pants. Besides, I was pregnant at the time and the baby was trying to kick the stuffing out of me.

I decided that his sermon wasn't for me, and went for a little walk. I had a lovely time, and then wandered back for the final hymn. I arrived back just as the preacher was coming out. He gave me an eyeballing. I explained that the baby had been kicking away, and I was most uncomfortable. He declared that the baby had come under the righteous wrath of God and was rebelling against it. I replied that I had though that the baby had rather enjoyed being surrounded by basses during the singing of "O for a Thousand Tongues", and had decided to join in the praise with a bit of break dancing.

His face was a bit of a picture.

bb
 

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Posted by Rowen (# 1194) on :
 
2 stories.... My co-clergy person was taking the Christmas Day Service. About 800 people at the summer seaside resort... He announced we would say the creed, and invited "those who believed in Jesus to stand up and say it, and those who didn't to remain seated and say it". A bunch of ministers and their families, joined me in remaining seated- so as to give some solidarity to a confused bunch of folk who half stood, looked stunned or embaressed- and weren't quite sure what to do. My co-worker then glared around, and challenged those seated to declare their belief in Jesus, during the offering at least, by giving handsomely- "and could all those ministers sitting down please stand up"
2nd story. I was a student minister in my own home church. A lay person, a church member, was leading the service. Someone who was a bit fragile began to cry softly. Suddenly she upped and ran outside. As quietly as I could, I slipped out to see if she was ok. We sat under the stars until she felt calmer, then moved back into the building. We sat on the back pew. The church had room for 600- I guess about 40 attended the night service and they sat at the front. Where we were was darkish- she turned to me and whispered her thanks, saying she felt better now. Lay leader looked up, and asked everyone to turn around and look at the whisperers in the back, who weere disrupting everyone and violently disturbing Jesus. We were reprimanded for our leaving the service and for her tears.
Needless to say, this woman left that church and now worships elsewhere.
 

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Posted by Oriel (# 748) on :
 
Not nearly as major as some of the ones on here, but I've just come back from the service, so it's quite fresh in my mind at the moment.

Our lay reader was preaching. He preached the same sermon he almost always preaches. It went something like this:

"The Gospel reading I've just read was from Mark's Gospel. Now, as you all know, Mark was the first gospel to be written, in around 60AD, and Matthew and Luke were written with reference to Mark. In fact, there are only 24 verses in Matthew and Luke that are not present in Mark. These Gospels are so similar they are called the "Synoptics". "Synoptic" is a Greek word meaning "similar". There are so many details in Mark that could only have been recorded by an eye-witness, so this record of Jesus' life wasn't secondhand. And scholars believe that this witness was St Peter."

And continued in this vein for about twenty minutes. Now, all this wouldn't have been so bad, if

a) He didn't introduce every sermon he ever preaches with a similar sort of introduction (and he's done Mark quite recently. We know this, he knows we know it, he's just told us we already know it, why is he telling us AGAIN?)

b) He didn't get in a loop and repeat all the above twice more.

c) He didn't present historical speculation as (i) absolutely true and (ii) vital to our salvation.

d) He didn't get said historical speculation wrong on several counts.

e) He actually got to some sort of point that was relevant to (i) the passage (ii) our Christian lives. The nearest he got was to tell us we Must Believe, without either (i) giving us reasons to believe or (ii) inspiring our hearts to believe. Nobody is going to believe anything merely because they are *told* to.

f) He hadn't made such a fuss about the necessity of correct doctrine, and used Paul as the yardstick of said correct doctrine; and the epistle passage (which he took from the wrong year in the lectionary, thus rendering our noticesheets (which contained references to the *correct* readings) useless) hadn't been about how we shouldn't follow Paul or Apollos, but Christ.

g) He didn't slag off a bishop he'd heard on the radio for not challenging an atheist on the same panel for saying that God was a figment of the imagination, when we couldn't hear the context and make up our own minds as to whether that was a reasonable thing to do (the bishop may have passed over the theological point to make a moral one more relevant to the discussion, the presenter may have not let the bishop answer, the bishop may have answered but been edited out -- without the context, we can't tell).

Both my husband and I were sitting on our hands trying not to object. I think maybe I should next time he preaches, but I know he'd be hurt.. Perhaps I'll work a conversation with him round to how he feels about theological discussion amongst the congregation first.
 

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Posted by Tiffer (# 3073) on :
 
Not very funny, but something which annoyed me an awful jing bang lot.

My girlfriends Cof E church was having an inter-regnum and I was worshipping there over the summer, the visiting preachers were all pretty dull, or just hilariously funny. There were a few weeks when I was left to look after her families house (and Grandma) while she was in France. There was one who I only saw once who seemed really clever, very astute and actually had something to say. We had had the Joseph being sold into slavery as the reading, and he started by clarifying how awful slavery is. (I have since realised that Joseph being sold into slavery was a very very good thing, but anyway) He then went through the bible, picking out every thing about slavery he could find, including in the New Testament, where he said that although Paul did say that all men were equal (implying this was his one saving grace) he also told slaves to serve their masters, how could he!

It was done very well, with a reader reading out the bible passages and very concise well thought out statements - really thought provoking.

I was waiting for a really fantastic ending, how was he going to save this attempted own goal with which he was tricking Satan? Well, to be fair, he didn't. He left a rather naive congregation to make up their own conclusions, in a church which ends any religious instruction for their congregation at the age of 15. I was so angry, if I hadn't had to walk a 90 year old lady home (who thankfully hadn't heard a word of the sermon) I may well have taken up the readers offer of talking to him after the service, however that may have given myself a bad name - my gfs parents still dont realise I am a closet evangelical (of sorts).

The bit about Paul I could already have proved him wrong on, and much of the OT stuff I have since proved him wrong on (in my head). I just thought it was so irresponsible to tear apart something which is so important to many peoples faith, evangelical or not. If I had been in the same place I had been a year before I dont know how damaging to my faith that may have been. No audible F&*^s but certainly some internal ones!
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
I am not quite sure what Tiffer found objectionable about the service he attended - not particularly because I would have found it great but because I don't quite understand what happened! What was wrong with it? if you tell us maybe we'll agree!

On the other hand I do find it bizarre that anyone over the age of 15 would need religious instruction (are you afraid people will make up their own minds if they aren't instructed what to think? How Awful!), and I find your description of the congregation as "rather naive" a bit patronising, to say the least; what is so awful about people making up their own minds? do you know them all personally, to know they are naive? Since you are an irregular attender at this church, I'd guess you don't.
 

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Posted by Captain IT (# 3550) on :
 
This is more like a series of O f#$%^ moments - at my home church several years ago, one lady preacher would frequently get very emotional about her children when they were little, other people's babies etc. Not big world things (street kids getting killed, Rwanda etc) but "fluffy bunny" stuff. You could almost hear the musicians group (mostly male, admittedly)"Not again..." when she got that catch in her voice.
On another occasion when the Spirit had moved and various folks had spent time re-dedicating themselves publicly, after God had done his bit powerfully and mysteriously, this same lady preacher also got up and proceeded to deliver her whole message. That she started at the time when the service would usually have been ending, added insult to the injury of "Well, that was very nice, now let me add my two-pennyworth"
 

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Posted by Merseymike (# 3022) on :
 
Yes, I agree with chukovsky. Ther's nothing wrong with questioning the assumptions of the Bible, many of which are culture bound. Sounds good to me. What's the problem??
 

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Posted by Tiffer (# 3073) on :
 
It may not have upset everyone in the church, but it upset me, and I feel that I am perfectly entitled to my own opinion, no? And my opinion is that he was on a mission to devalue a book, a book which does not contain God, but enlightens me about His promises which I have learnt to live for, and a book which God uses to give encouragement and direction to my brothers and sisters, whom I care about very much. The dude in question decides that he is strong enough not to need the promises and advice of the bible, fine, but then to go to a priestless congregation, a congregation not particularily steeped in the bible, and tear it to shreds, is entirely irresponsible, and certainly not the kind of behaviour recommended in the NT.

And yes, as I said, I too enjoyed it, until he failed to explain any of it to the glory of God. I am perfectly happy to accept that God has told people to do things that appear nasty to us, that is fine, but only because I respect Gods ways as higher, and trust that all he does is for the best. But the visiting priest was quite clear that modern day cultures view of slavery as bad and wrong is the correct one, and God was condoning it, or that Godly people twisted Gods commands to condone it in the bible.

And yes, I do know many of the members of the congregation, and I would say I was a regular worshipper there, although it is not my home church. I know some of the cong personally, and I found that the culture was not one of bible-studying or the like, but far more of looking out for one another and loving their neighbours, which, as we all know, is far better.

Religious instruction was a bad way of putting it, but I cant quite put it into words. There are no official bible study groups or prayer groups to my knowledge, (however the pastoral care is great) so this is the kind of church it is. If anyone has a problem with that then they should analyse themselves and not me, because I don't believe I made any direct judgements in my past thread or my current one, other than to point out something which made me want to swear out loud in church, which I do believe was the original topic of conversation.

Sorry for the tone (I am e-tactless),

Tiffer

PS If my gf corrects me below then I shall swallow my words, as she should know about the church better than I.
 

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Posted by Merseymike (# 3022) on :
 
I think he shoukld be congratulated : hopefully some people will have recognised that the Bible is simply WRONG on some issues.
I'm sick of saying, 'oh well, its because of when it was written'

The Bible is WRONG on women , its WRONG on gay people, its WRONG on slavery, its WRONG on obeying governments.

And why you can't believe that Jesus has something to offer without thinking that, well, you can, and its about time the Church started saying so.
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Actually I'd say the Bible is right (if analysed properly, including understanding of the historical context and the way in which the testaments were written) on slavery and women (I hope you aren't completely disallowing Jesus' attitude to women in your dismissal of the Bible's message on us!). It has nothing in it that is remotely relevant to homosexual relationships.

So it sounds like Tiffer is cross with this preacher because he dared to suggest that you might use your intellect to examine the bible. BZZT! Sorry. Not allowed on this thread. I don't think you'll get a consensus on that being a "F"£$£" moment.
 

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Posted by MCC (# 3137) on :
 
Following our curate's being priested ( a very "join our male club event which had me nearly walking out in disgust") his First Mass (in a Church which usually has Eucharist) involved a line of male priests in Purple (!) sitting there gloating over us, and ended with us being told that after the new priest had receieved some flowerrs which he would give to his mother to lay at the shrine at Walsingham, we could all go up for a blessing from the new priest, and kiss his hand. What the FXXX was that?

Far too high for me, I liked the guy, but really didn't enjoy his service at all.
 

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Posted by MCC (# 3137) on :
 
Following our curate's being priested ( a very "join our male club event which had me nearly walking out in disgust") his First Mass (in a Church which usually has Eucharist) involved a line of male priests in Purple (!) sitting there gloating over us, and ended with us being told that after the new priest had receieved some flowerrs which he would give to his mother to lay at the shrine at Walsingham, we could all go up for a blessing from the new priest, and kiss his hand. What the FXXX was that?

Far too high for me, I liked the guy, but really didn't enjoy his service at all.
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
In response to a PM which Tiffer sent me, I'd rather discuss this in public thank you, he objected to my previous post where I said I didn't think there would be a consensus on his objections.

Though the fact that no-one has responded positively to his objections doesn't mean no-one agrees with him, it does seem suggestive given that almost all the other Worst Moments have had a positive response from someone else. Sure you are going to get some things that one person REALLY dislikes and others think is wonderful, but I don't think calling the congregation "naive" is going to help your case.
 

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Posted by Sean D (# 2271) on :
 
Merseymike - just because those things are (mostly) dead horses doesn't mean you can say that the Bible is just plain wrong about them all and have nobody challenge you on it.

Personally I do think the Bible can be wrong about stuff, this is not the issue I am getting at. It's the tactic I object to:

OK, I have my head up my arse for disagreeing with you on a "moaning" thread rather than one for discussion. However, this is exactly what you did with Tiffer, who is an apprentice and now might think he can't post stuff without people jumping on him.* I completely agree that when people say stuff you think is naive and disagreeable you have every right to say so. But posting a series of blanket statements, all of which can be challenged (but not here without looking a dick like I now am) is an unpleasant tactic to look clever and right, as no-one will contradict you. So, I am calling attention to it.

* Compare the way you responded to him with the way Chukovsky did. Tiffer actually then apologised and rephrased substantially, but you just had to get in there to make your point one more time.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Wanders through with hostly toasting fork in hand

For the benefit of y'all, I'll go over some of the basics about Hell.

1. This is a place for discord and vigourous disagreement (among other things, but this is what we're concentrating on here). It's ok for two people to completely disagree and say so. Out loud and in public.
2. Anyone is allowed to particpate on this thread, and indeed any other in Hell (unless specifically prohibited by hosts). Participation is not limited to those who agree with each other.
3. I'm bored of some people bringing homosexuality into everything they post. Boredom does not make me amenable to said people in any way. Take note.

Any questions?

Viki, hellhost
 

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Posted by Tiffer (# 3073) on :
 
Sean D, may I thank you for being nice. I was feeling very alone and unspoken for over here.

And Chukovsky, I cannot defend myself for using the word naive, I apologise, it was not intentional just part of my writing style (a bad one). Other than that we must just agree to disagree.

Tiffer xx
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
I am not disagreeing with Chukovsky on this one (wouldn't dare! ), and I think only Tiffer really knows if this was a genuine 'F*&%' moment for him. But

I think I know what he was driving at?! There is a difference, very often, between using scripture in a fairly academic fashion, making scholarly deductions which may be all well and good if the only goal aimed for is instruction or teaching. But, generally, sermon-time is for exhorting and finding a message which, while it may well educate, will also inform in an encouraging and hopeful way.

Maybe, there's a fine line between offering patronizing fairytales of Jesus stuff, and smack 'em between the eyes deconstruction.

If the preacher was trying to demonstrate how thorough his own Biblical knowledge was, at the expense of a useful spiritual message for his congregation, then I suspect that even if he did have a challenge for them, they will have missed it.

Of course, as Merseymike points out some preachers may well view certain scriptures as wrong; or as Chukovsky points out, not interpreted correctly or helpfully. And there must be times when it's right to challenge people about their views of scripture; as well as challenging them with scripture.

But maybe (and I'm only saying maybe!) Tiffer's preacher's gaff was forgetting to somehow relate his own ideas of what the Bible had to say on slavery to an idea that could be taken away by the congregation members and used throughout the week to come, to their own and others' encouragement?

Sadly, I recognize this to be something I can easily fall into; wanting so much to share my own 'exciting' discoveries of what the Bible really says, only to find, when I preach it, that there's actually nothing in my sermon that someone could use to help them love or serve God more!
 

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Posted by Sean D (# 2271) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sarkycow:

1. This is a place for discord and vigourous disagreement (among other things, but this is what we're concentrating on here). It's ok for two people to completely disagree and say so. Out loud and in public.
2. Anyone is allowed to particpate on this thread, and indeed any other in Hell (unless specifically prohibited by hosts). Participation is not limited to those who agree with each other.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tiffer:
Religious instruction was a bad way of putting it, but I cant quite put it into words. There are no official bible study groups or prayer groups to my knowledge, (however the pastoral care is great) so this is the kind of church it is. If anyone has a problem with that then they should analyse themselves and not me, because I don't believe I made any direct judgements in my past thread or my current one, other than to point out something which made me want to swear out loud in church, which I do believe was the original topic of conversation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by madferret:

quote:

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Originally posted by Tiffer:
Religious instruction was a bad way of putting it, but I cant quite put it into words. There are no official bible study groups or prayer groups to my knowledge, (however the pastoral care is great) so this is the kind of church it is. If anyone has a problem with that then they should analyse themselves and not me, because I don't believe I made any direct judgements in my past thread or my current one, other than to point out something which made me want to swear out loud in church, which I do believe was the original topic of conversation.

---

So it's not being judgemental to criticise a Church for not providing bible study or prayer groups? Does this mean there is no individual prayer or bible study in the church? I would guess not. How are you qualified to assess the spiritual condition of the congregation? What does the pastoral care consist of?

I accept you felt upset enough to post here - but look out for your own plank before taking the specks out of your part-time congregation's eye's. If you want to upset people round here, just keep that condescending attitude...

Oh, and MM -- what was all that about? I'll simply agree with what Sean D said.

---

madferret please can you tell me in words of one syllable where I am being judgemental in my above statement? Criticise I believe means either pointing out of faults or to discus the merit of literary or artistic works, neither of which I did in my above post, unless YOU count not having bible study groups as faults, because I certainly didn't. I think I am allowed to state the truth, and that is, certainly as far as you know, the truth. If you have a problem with this church having no bible studies or prayer groups then you can complain about it - I don't believe I have and I think it is unfair of you to make me look like I have.

I am sure there is private personal prayer and bible study, you can buy bible study notes through the church indeed, however it doesn't seem to be an emphasis in the church, which like I said, I haven't commented on, as I am not in a position to. I invite you to knock my gfs church, I think I could defend it pretty well. I spend much of my life defending the traditions in front of people not familiar with the Anglican church, so how dare you call me judgemental!

I have a high regard for the pastoral care because my girlfriends grandma who I am quite close to and who has quite a lonely life is visited frequently by members of the congregation, as well as being taken communion at home whenever she wants it. That is more important that forcing the old lady into a bible study I feel, but if you feel otherwise, complain away - don't make me the culprit here for your problems with certain types of churches!
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
Tiffer, if you take such an outraged approach without explaining why you were upset, I'm afraid you must expect to be jumped on. (Admittedly, you weren't as heavy handed here as you were on Homosexuality in Dead Horses, so I'm a bit surprised at the strong reaction on this thread.)
 

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Posted by Alergy (# 3600) on :
 
I produced my own 'Oh F***' moment when leading worship to around 800 folks at a reigonal combined uni CU type gathering years ago. I hadn't quite realised how many people were there, and as I took to the microphone I blurted out 'Oh my God, there are loads of people here'. Taking the Lord's name in vain to start worship - maybe I should've just uttered 'Oh F***' instead!

One other F@*%! moment that my father told me about, although not in a service, was when a particularly forthright minister described how divorcees were hellbound to the gathered population of a local primary school, the majority of whose pupils were from single parent / divorced parent homes. I really hope this is just an urban myth, but knowing the minister I'm not so sure.
 

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Posted by Rowen (# 1194) on :
 
I can relate to producing one of "those" moments in a service. I was breaking the bread when the elastic on my halfslip died. It fell to my knees, but all was well until the time came to move away from the table and hand the servers the elements. I thought I'd turned the mic off, but like a fool, I hadn't. The half-petticoate tied up my ankles, and I said "Bugger" quite loudly into the mic. "Bugger" over the elements is not normally part of my liturgy. Then I needed to get the blasted undergarment off in a dignified manner, whilst everyone looked on and giggled.
 

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Posted by anglicanrascal (# 3412) on :
 
Rowen defrocked at the Communion!
 

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Posted by Alergy (# 3600) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rowen:
I can relate to producing one of "those" moments in a service. I was breaking the bread when the elastic on my halfslip died. It fell to my knees, but all was well until the time came to move away from the table and hand the servers the elements. I thought I'd turned the mic off, but like a fool, I hadn't. The half-petticoate tied up my ankles, and I said "Bugger" quite loudly into the mic. "Bugger" over the elements is not normally part of my liturgy. Then I needed to get the blasted undergarment off in a dignified manner, whilst everyone looked on and giggled.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tiffer:
madferret please can you tell me in words of one syllable where I am being judgemental in my above statement?

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quote:

---

Criticise I believe means either pointing out of faults or to discus the merit of literary or artistic works, neither of which I did in my above post, unless YOU count not having bible study groups as faults, because I certainly didn't. I think I am allowed to state the truth, and that is, certainly as far as you know, the truth.

---

quote:

---

If you have a problem with this church having no bible studies or prayer groups then you can complain about it - I don't believe I have and I think it is unfair of you to make me look like I have....

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quote:

---

don't make me the culprit here for your problems with certain types of churches!

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You're being judgemental again. I have NO problem with churches of the type you describe. So don't tell me I have, thank you. You started the criticism; I was actually attempting to defend it (I know very well the difficulties in promoting bible study and corporate prayer to a church congregation)!

I'm still not clear why you consider the congregation naive; but you have clarified your position and my accusation appears to have been unfounded. Good. I apologise for any upset it may have caused you.
 

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Posted by Nunc Dimittis (# 848) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by anglicanrascal:
Rowen defrocked at the Communion!

---

 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rowen:
. "Bugger" over the elements is not normally part of my liturgy.

---

I sincerely hope there was an appropriate manual act to accompany this psalmic lamentation of woe? Though, come to think of it, the problem wasn't with your 'elevation', but quite the reverse.....
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:
Maybe, there's a fine line between offering patronizing fairytales of Jesus stuff, and smack 'em between the eyes deconstruction.

---

Myself, I find patronizing deconstruction worse than either... though I have mainly encountered that in grad school, and it did make me want to say F*$#! in the middle of the lecture, anyway.

On the other hand, I don't think I mind smack 'em between the eyes fairy tales. Better than the watered-down ones.

I do find genuinely heretical sermons a real piss-me-off-instantly sort of thing. But as Lewis puts it, no matter what nonsense is preached from the pulpit, we go right into the Creed, "We believe in one God," etc.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rowen:
Then I needed to get the blasted undergarment off in a dignified manner, whilst everyone looked on and giggled.

---

I'm sorry, but

You could have said, "Yea, brethren, and as you can see, we do not desire to be unclothed, but re-clothed..."
 

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Posted by Bagpuss (# 2925) on :
 
I'm a high Anglican girl but have been known to venture into evangelical pastures on occasion.

On one such occasion I was attending communion where a lay person was assisting in the distribution of the host.

It was sliced bread - which I hate anyway - if you're going to use bread why don't they use a nice crusty loaf not Tesco's economy stuff!

Anyway the guy dropped a piece of bread - with bated breath I waited to see what he would do. He used his foot to discretely try and push it out of the way whilst continuing to dish out the bread to the communicants. Then after it was all squished and dirty he picked it up and stuffed it in his pocket.

I wanted to shout out what the *&%" do you think you're doing to Jesus!!!!

I know they're more biblical and I'm more sacramental but even so I could barely cope!
 

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Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
I just had a #$%@ moment reading MM posts.

MM, you have twice put down someone else's moment. Though this is Hell, most people here are more considerate than that. I let it pass the first time, even though the first time was directed at my moment.

Further, you try to hide behind Jesus in trashing the Bible. You forget that Jesus said not a jot or a tittle will pass away from God's word. In this and in other statements, He clearly believed the canon of God's word at that time. You can say you believe Jesus. Or you can say the Bible is "WRONG", but you can't have it both ways.

Now kindly shut up and let people say their moments without your tendentious comments. If you have a $#@% moment, feel free to share. Giving your prejudice against orthodox (small o) Christianity, I'm sure you have many to share. If you want to rant against the authority of God's word, there are plenty of threads available for that.
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
MTP - you get offended my MM? I am truly sorry to hear that, given that you are always so kind, considerate and open minded to the views of others.
 

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Posted by kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Merseymike:
The Bible is WRONG on women , its WRONG on gay people, its WRONG on slavery, its WRONG on obeying governments.

---

Y'know Mike, one of these days you're actually going to express an opinion and stop being so coy.
 

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Posted by Sean D (# 2271) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bagpuss:
It was sliced bread - which I hate anyway - if you're going to use bread why don't they use a nice crusty loaf not Tesco's economy stuff!

---

quote:

---

I wanted to shout out what the *&%" do you think you're doing to Jesus!!!!

I know they're more biblical and I'm more sacramental <snip>

---

All the same, one should be respectful of other traditions that may be there. Personally I couldn't care less what happened to the elements, but treating them with anything but the utmost respect would be disrespectful to those who had a higher view of them than me, and those people certainly do matter.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Raises toasting fork slightly higher

Alright people. This thred is for the 'oh f*$#!' moments in a service. If you have one of those, please post here.

If, however, you are deep in an argument, then open your own thread. Got it? Or do I need to start naming names?

Viki
 

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Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
Thank you, Sarkycow!
 

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Posted by Ancient Mariner (# 105) on :
 
Ah, well, now...

I'm putting the finishing touches to my first novel where the vicar finally loses it and swears at the congregation during a sermon. It's a baptismal service, too.

Thought you might like to know.


 

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Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 
*sigh* I started to post this somewhere else, but this is the right thread really, I suppose.

I was at a wedding last weekend and was very near standing on my pew and shouting *!$@!! at several points during the service (and reception).

There were a couple of things. Firstly, i was just longing for someone to say something realistic. Y'know, when they're all going on about what a wonderful adventure they're embarking on together etc etc. i just want to scream 'yes! okay! sometimes that adventure consists of: get up... go to work... come home... collapse in tired heap... drag self to bed... repeat for as many weeks as necessary until one of you has a spark of energy and decides to do something different - like the laundry or the dishes.' grrr. Somebody, please, just be honest.

The other thing, and you get this a lot I think at certain types of wedding, was that at times the whole thing felt like a thinly disguised 'let's get this over so these two can get home and get to bed' exercise. Around the time of my own wedding I got so pissed off about this. Suddenly it's open season on what should be your private life (geddit? private life? the clue's in the name...) and everyone feels free to give you their bit of advice, or do the old 'nudge nudge, wink wink' thing. Am I the only person in the world who felt this was totally intrusive and rude? Men at this wedding seemed to feel totally free to make quite intimate type remarks about the bride's body, her figure, and what she and the groom would be up to later that evening. There just seems to be this feeling in the air that that is what the whole thing is about. Maybe I'm just oversensitive, but when my wedding was coming up this got to the point where my husband had to reassure me that he did want to marry me for reasons not limited to having sex, since that's all anyone seemed to be talking about.

Sorry, I know I'm ranting, but God the whole thing pissed me off. And I thought it might stop after the wedding. Ha! About five weekes after our wedding, we were late to church one morning. You'd have thought we'd walked in still buttoning up our clothes, the reaction we got. For God's sake people, grow up.

Or am I just being very old fashioned about this?

b
 

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Posted by Tiffer (# 3073) on :
 
I agree, just wrote a long post but had to delete it because it was far too personal, but yes, marriage preparation classes should be more personal and invasive about this.

I kind of get annoyed at couples who are open about having SBM getting married in the usual way, with the same emphasis on the wedding night and the like. I know it is wrong of me to judge but I just dont understand it - it is just the double mindedness of it. They want the glamour and specialness of the wedding night, and the white virginal dress, and the Christian service designed to give a girl over to a man (to do with her what he pleases!), and yet also fight for their right to have SBM. I dunno, my girlfriend says that she can only see it as a good thing, because it shows that you can be a Christian and not have to follow rules(however she may have changed her mind about this by now).

Not that I am an active protestor - I just dont get it is all.
 

---

Posted by Tiffer (# 3073) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by birdie:


There were a couple of things. Firstly, i was just longing for someone to say something realistic. Y'know, when they're all going on about what a wonderful adventure they're embarking on together etc etc. i just want to scream 'yes! okay! sometimes that adventure consists of: get up... go to work... come home... collapse in tired heap... drag self to bed... repeat for as many weeks as necessary until one of you has a spark of energy and decides to do something different - like the laundry or the dishes.' grrr. Somebody, please, just be honest.

b

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tiffer:
Not that I am an active protestor - I just dont get it is all.

---

fnarr fnarr
 

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Posted by Bagpuss (# 2925) on :
 
I had another *&%^ moment AGAIN today with one of my fellow students.

I am an Anglican - an Anglo Catholic and he is Roman Catholic. If he calls me a Protestant one more time I am going to ram something painful somewhere he will not like.

What also p's me off big time is when he insists on telling me how things are done in MY tradition. I don't tell him how to practice Roman Catholicism so why should he insist on doing it to me.

What was even worse today was that he was so f*****g rude in the Anglican cathedral we were visiting. Eventually I could take no more and when he insisted that Protestants (as all non RC's are to him) do not believe in transubstantiation or elevate the host during the eucharist - well I'm afraid I put him right rather vehemently and loudly.

I'm on a roll now! I also get p'd off when people generalise about religions, and this is the trainee RE teachers I am with, 'real' RE teachers and lecturers alike. It isn't restricted to Christianity however that does seem to be the prolific culprit.

As an Anglican in the last 6 months from various sources I have been told that I don't use icons (orthodox), revere BVM (RC), believe in transubstantiation (RC), etc etc etc - well that's bloody funny because I have been doing for many years.

All I can say is thank God for the sensible and sane ones out there. Especially the ones preventing me from slapping the two main culprits.
 

---

Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tiffer:
<snip> marriage preparation classes should be more personal and invasive about this. <snip>

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tiffer:
They want the glamour and specialness of the wedding night, and the white virginal dress, and the Christian service designed to give a girl over to a man (to do with her what he pleases!),

---

Tee hee! I know you are joking Tiffer. You are aren't you? Or is this some grubby little fantasy you have about the lovely mimsey?

'Cos we all know that in the solemnization of marriage the gentleman confers upon the lady his rank and dignities and the worth of his person (worship=worth-ship) and pledges that the wealth that is his is hers also. Of course you will be doing this before slaking your lust on her body in an earnest effort to help fulfil the prayer regarding fruitfulness in the procreation of children.

 

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Posted by Presleyterian (# 1915) on :
 
Thank you, Icarus Coot, for explaining that Tiffer's comments were in jest. I was ready to fire off a post asking him in what century he was living, in what tribe were men encouraged to marry girls, in what country are brides considered chattel to be "given over to a man," and on what planet is one's wedding night -- or any other night -- a matter of a husband "do[ing]with [a wife] what he pleases." (Yeah, right.) Somebody's little imagination seems to be getting a bit overheated. Laying off the Barbara Cartland novels wouldn't be a bad idea.

And it took me a few minutes to figure out what "SBM" was. I didn't know we had a cute acronym for it now.
 

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Posted by auntbeast (# 377) on :
 
Posted by Presleyterian:

quote:

---

And it took me a few minutes to figure out what "SBM" was. I didn't know we had a cute acronym for it now.

---

I don't know...but around here "SBM" means "single black male" in the personals. Which leads me to agree with Tiffer that "I kind of get annoyed at couples who are open about having (a single black male)getting married in the usual way, with the same emphasis on the wedding night and the like". Having each other before the wedding doesn't so much bother me, but I am not sure about the couple having anyone else, regardless of gender or race, before the wedding , although I suppose consenting adults and all what the heck. But it would certainly make for a less traditional wedding.

Cheers,
Auntbeast
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I thought it was 'Straight Black Male', Auntbeast.
 

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Posted by auntbeast (# 377) on :
 
I have most often seen it as single black male as opposed to DBM (divorced) but I have also seen it as straight black male as opposed to GBM. the complexities of personals ads.. could lead to some real confusion.. think I will continue to avoid them and be content with my houseplants and dust bunnies.

All good things,
Auntbeast
 

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Posted by Tiffer (# 3073) on :
 
Joking, me! Of course not!

Well, ok I am, which is annoying because I would like to have this kind of extreme viewpoint, but alas, I unfortunantly love my young lady, so couldnt really do with her as I pleased.

However if she was willing to submit to me entirely then I wouldnt see the problem with it

I do believe Coot used the phrase "'Cos we all know". I have come to realise that that phrase has no meaning on the ship! We cant all agree on there being one God for goodness sake!
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Drat, Tiffer, I had a lovely thread down in Limbo about just such a situation as you suggest, but it's gone now. We'll have to wait for the return of T & T for another thread like that, methinks.

Getting back to the OP, I'll add "clergy making references to 'youth-oriented culture' (which I know more about than some, being into animation, etc.) as if it's something totally alien." I think they mean well, but it comes across as condescending and annoying.
 

---

Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bagpuss:
On one such occasion I was attending communion where a lay person was assisting in the distribution of the host....

Anyway the guy dropped a piece of bread - with bated breath I waited to see what he would do. He used his foot to discretely try and push it out of the way whilst continuing to dish out the bread to the communicants. Then after it was all squished and dirty he picked it up and stuffed it in his pocket.

I wanted to shout out what the *&%" do you think you're doing to Jesus!!!!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by auntbeast:
I have most often seen it as single black male as opposed to DBM (divorced)

---

Ah, I immediately thought that the D meant 'double'. I don't know if that would mean a married male, or a double-width male.

bb
 

---

Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
I have never actually said a rude word in church. I don't really think rude words either - maybe I'm just too nice a little Catholic girl to do that.

I have had moments though, when I feel that I can't stand being in church a moment longer. It isn't really to do with the ceremony, or someone saying something tactless or stupid in a service.

When my mother was dying, although she had worked for something like 15 years as a lay minister, she did not once get communion brought to the house by a Catholic priest or minister. It would have meant so much if someone had made that particular sort of effort, if there had been some sort of semblance of caring there.

When we arranged my father's funeral (they died in the same year) the priest told me that the ordering of the service was his business more than mine, because you would not tell a surgeon how to make his incisions (I am a doctor and spend a large part of my working day trying to make my patients feel they have ownership of the clinical decisions we are making).

I just couldn't sit through a church service for 10 months after the last parental funeral. It isn't so much accidental faux pas as the feeling that the whole thing is a charade if it isn't underpinned by human kindness and fellowship.
 

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Posted by multipara (# 2918) on :
 
WD, you are exactly right. That stiff-necked cleric who conducted your dad's funeral deserved a monumental kick up the arse. It is very hard at moments like that to summon up the spirit to tell such a pompous twit to get f***ed.

It is even worse that no effort was made to bring the viaticum to your mum; that is inexcusable.

I have to say that my experience with my mother's funeral arrangements was positive-the celebrant was my parish priest and I had the choirmaster on side as well. Dad's (11 years earlier) was awful mainly because my mother was in no fit state to do anything and the whole catastrophe was taken over by a couple of the local holiness brigade who selected the readings. I was informed that 2 Timothy was inappropriate for the occasion and that I would read what the holiness brigadier had selected...I still tremble with rage 16 years later.

cheers,

m
 

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Posted by Ms Byronic (# 3942) on :
 
The most screamingly annoying thing for me has been at the last two funerals of close family members. On each occasion the sons of the diseased have insisted on reading eulogies. At least one of them has little interest (or knowledge, shamefully) of Catholic custom or practice.

On each occasion I have wanted to scream - WE'RE CATHOLIC G-DDAMNIT AND WE DON'T EULOGISE.

On each occasion the eulogies were saccharine sentimental and owed more to Hollywood than spiritual tradition.

Both times the eulogies were tacked on at the end of the service because they are not the point of the funeral Mass.

I wish priests would crack down on this soft-focus rubbish and encourage people to concentrate on the sacraments.
 

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Posted by multipara (# 2918) on :
 
Ms Byronic, some of my British mates have told me that eulogies are not the thing over there; here in Oz it is a rare RC funeral where there is not one (and on occasion 2 or even 3). These are generally after Communion and before the dismissal.

I have to disagree with you in that I believe that it is not the celebrant's place to forbid eulogies, sappy as they might be.

I personally don't like eulogies and neither do my 2 sibs ( who are retired Catholics); so at Mum's requiem there was no eulogy. However my naughty parish priest preached a brief homily and commented to those present (about 20-odd at the funeral Mass and 100-odd at the sung requiem 2 weeks later) that She Who Must Be Obeyed (nodding in my direction) had slapped an interdict on any unnecessary speechifying.

cheers,

m
 

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Posted by auntbeast (# 377) on :
 
Posted by Ms. Byronic

quote:

---

I wish priests would crack down on this soft-focus rubbish and encourage people to concentrate on the sacraments.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Misercordia Adulterina Killsin:
Y'all make it sound like yelling fuck in church is so unusual!?

---

Hey, weren't we confirmed together?
 

---

Posted by kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by auntbeast:
From a long line of storytellers (who by the way also throw kick ass wakes),
Auntbeast

---

Auntbeast, you rock! When the time comes for me to hand in my dinner pail, would you please oversee my wake?
 

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Posted by silverfran (# 3549) on :
 
I have only ever walked out of two services in my long time as a believer.

The first was at a CU meeting at the beginning of my second year of university. The speaker mocked all those on campus who don't share our beliefs because God is obviously real and Christianity is obviously the only way to truth. I was so shocked that the entire congregation laughed in agreement with him that I just had to walk out.

THe second was at my "home" church. While I was at uni we'd got a new vicar so although he'd been there for a couple of years he was still new to me.

In the evening service he did a sermon on how to solve the problem of falling church numbers. Naturally I was expecting a tirade against post-modernism, liberalism, etc. But I was wrong. The answer to why people are falling away from the church is actually because the early church went from being free, evangelical and charismatic to became the catholic church (bearing in mind this is an anglican church) and went on to say because of this the church in the dark ages didn't exist.

I bit my tongue wanting to shout out "what F*&^% version of history have you read then? He then went on to say all sorts of bizarre things like "doctrinal unity poses a threat to the authority of the church" to which I replied "well then the church of england has nothing to worry about then," as I walked out, but sadly I was too close to the back for anyone to hear (he;d made the other 6 people there sit at the front, but what can I say, I'm a rebel)

I'm also amazed at the contradictory attitudes people have. I was having a conversation with someone in CU once who said "of course the pope can't possibly be infallible," and then in the next breath made a remark to the effect that everything their church leader says is true because he's their church leader.

Personally I'm of the opinion people are leaving the church because they are fed up of being taught by ignorant, arrogant bastards and being surrounded by the same!!
 

---

Posted by silverfran (# 3549) on :
 
ps after I walked out of my "home" church, I never went back and now attend a church that is evangleical and sacramental (it all depends on what service you attend).
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ms Byronic:
The most screamingly annoying thing for me has been at the last two funerals of close family members. On each occasion the sons of the diseased have insisted on reading eulogies. At least one of them has little interest (or knowledge, shamefully) of Catholic custom or practice.

---

And if the person was only diseased it was a little premature, wasn't it?

 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ms Byronic:
The most screamingly annoying thing for me has been at the last two funerals of close family members. On each occasion the sons of the diseased have insisted on reading eulogies. At least one of them has little interest (or knowledge, shamefully) of Catholic custom or practice.

---

And if the person was only diseased it was a little premature, wasn't it?

---

I think Alan might have a contender for best typo of the year!
 

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Posted by Huntress (# 2595) on :
 
I inwardly screamed %#*@ at the first CU meeting in my first year of university (I had abstained from joining the Catholic Society at Freshers' Fayre because I assumed (mea culpa!) that it would be full of scary fundamentalists ). Seated on the front row, I enjoyed the meeting during the praise bits, eg. praying and worship songs, but their speaker!!!!!! he said words to the effect that the 300 people in the room were Christian, which left 21,700 students who obviously weren't - denoted by their absence - and these people were 'walking on rotting floorboards over hell' and needed to be saved. HUGE round of applause from the audience, which did not include any of my subsequent friends from the Catholic Society or other non-CU Christian societies, while I squirmed and vowed not to go back.
 

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Posted by Tiffer (# 3073) on :
 
As I was completely taken apart for my swearing moment earlier I am returning the favour (in love) because of two of the posts above.

I do agree the papal fallibility guy was quite silly though - these narrow minded fundies!

I have many problems with my CU, but encouraging evangilism is not one of them! Some of the talkers are a little bland and over the top challenging - the other week this guy was telling us of the challenges of mission week and my friend whispered to me "The challenge is walking out not feeling guilty". But the concept of evangilism? It is not only biblical - it is obvious.

I am a Christian because I follow Christ. Christ said that there was no way to heaven except through him, and then he died for our sins. Paul is quite clear that we have to accept Christ in order to be saved. Now even if you believe that everyone is saved anyway (although Jesus is pretty clear that this isnt the case - open to interpretation), I still want others to have a relationship with God because I know it is the best thing in the world.

Plus it is a direct command from Jesus after his resurrection "Go and make disciples of men" Matthew 28 isnt it?

I do see why you may have got upset, but you cant blame them for believing what the bible says, I would say a large percentage of the Christians in this country do (even if they dont believe it is infallible or whatever!) I respect you for enjoying the worship however - and I am not a mad supporter of CUs, so dont label me as a UCCF puppet.
 

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Posted by Tiffer (# 3073) on :
 
Oh wait - have I got this entirely wrong!

Were the problems with the speakers mocking non-Christians as opposed to loving them (because that is wrong and I would have sworn too) and that anyone who hadnt made it into the meeting were not saved (also complete codswallop!) respectively? If so Im sorry I had a go at you both.
 

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Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
Tiffer, if evangelism is so important to you, you could try and remember to spell it right...just to help the "message" get across...
 

---

Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Well said that woman.
 

---

Posted by nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 
well i've just had my f-you moment on this thread:

quote:

---

On each occasion the sons of the diseased have insisted on reading eulogies. At least one of them has little interest (or knowledge, shamefully) of Catholic custom or practice.

On each occasion I have wanted to scream - WE'RE CATHOLIC G-DDAMNIT AND WE DON'T EULOGISE.

On each occasion the eulogies were saccharine sentimental and owed more to Hollywood than spiritual tradition.

---

ms bryonic, speaking as someone who's just recently (4 months ago) lost her own father, where the HELL do you get off telling anyone how they should memorialize their father?
 

---

Posted by Chris Lewis (# 4048) on :
 
I generally find it good to submit to leaders. Even ones with their heads in the sands and no idea of what life is about. I think this reflects positively on me. I have had some jerks in leadership over me but the bible says we should submit to those in authority. It doesn't say we should submit irrespectively of their abuse of authority. But I do anyway.



This doesn't mean I like what they do. No far from it. Sometimes I take it on myself to go and clean up the political/emotional mess they have left.

One thing I would like to %*(^&( about is what my fellow brothers and sisters say and do. I think they are far more prone to be idiots than leaders. And sometimes they cause leaders real problems.

There was this woman at my church at home (she's still there) who is the wife of an (now ex-) elder. It appeared she thought that this gave her the position of "oracle" in the church. This of course lead to her manipulating and steering meetings around in some really shocking ways but her classic seemed to be getting people she didn't like to leave her club, er I mean the Church.

On one particular occasion she even went as far as telling the father of this particular friendly approachable family that she could hear Satan in his voice.



Speechless? So was I. Needless to say the family left her club er sorry - the church. Many of us are still good friends with them, just not "the oracle". That was years ago and even today I cannot get over how astonished I am that anyone could have the gall to say such a thing to a person who had never invited any criticism from anyone.



Her husband isn't in a position of leadership anymore. Heck if he can't reign her in just what can he lead?



Chris Lewis
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
I don't have a dog in that fight as we say here in Texas. But I read recently (Sorry, don't remember where.) of a Catholic diocese that banned eulogies. There's been a bit of controversy about it. I want to say the diocese is in Pennsyvania. Perhaps someone else here knows of a good link concerning this.

Some, including in the leadership, felt that eulogies were getting out of hand with length and language among other things. So the diocese decided to ban them.
 

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Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
I somebody wants to start a thread on Eulogies (RC or whatever), I'll contribute, but I think I see Sarkycow's Toasting Fork approaching...
 

---

Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
That first word is "If"; you can see the 'f' there, right?

Welcome, Chris Lewis, and here's a little pin to honor you for jumping right into Hell with your first post!
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
Yes, welcome Chris!

Now excuse me while I run and hide from Sarkycow.
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarkthePunk:
But I read recently (Sorry, don't remember where.) of a Catholic diocese that banned eulogies. There's been a bit of controversy about it. I want to say the diocese is in Pennsyvania. Perhaps someone else here knows of a good link concerning this.

---

N ewark.
 

---

Posted by multipara (# 2918) on :
 
Today I consign to hell all stiff-necked control-freak clerics.

What is this, 1959????!!!!!
 

---

Posted by ej (# 2259) on :
 
ahem... anyway, I just want to break the hellishness and say how most chuffed I was to see this thread hit the front SOF page... I never would've thunk it when I started it, so thankyou all for making my naff little dream come true

Now, back to the $&%^ moments...

As I'm a Smallfire bod mostly, here's one for those so inclined:

After lobbying my church to undertake an experimental, no-risk, alternative worship service trial, and having no success and receiving only patronising comments and thinly veiled ridicule, I walk into a service one night, called 'cafe church', but in reality is just 'church with tables', and then have the pastor come over, place his hands on my shoulder in a manly-bonding type way and say "How's this for alternative??"... Muchly restraint was required to prevent ramming pastors head into the conveniently placed tables...

When I went back and visited the other night, the pastor also started a conga line during worship... hmm.. maybe not a $&%^ moment - more like a "oh dear God, I wish I could just disappear" moment...
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
And y'all were doing so well keeping on track after the earlier shitfight.

Now go and make threads on eulogies elsewhere. Purgatory if you want to discuss the memorial and good/bad aspects of it; Mystery Worship is the place for the liturgical rights/wrongs of it.

And finally: Chris, welcome to both Hell, and the Ship. Make yourself at home; have a wander and a read of all the boards.

Viki, hellhost
 

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Posted by multipara (# 2918) on :
 
OK, Sarky, you haven't noticed there already is a thread on eulogies in MW which I started in reponse to jlg's kind suggestion. However, in a fit of early-morning absentmindedness I typed in "multipara" for the title.

Could you do something hostly about changing it to a more appropriate title-I would be most grateful.

m
 

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Posted by ej (# 2259) on :
 
Chris, let me say welcome too! Especially as your first post I found very interesting... Can't say I share your attitudes to leaders, as I've been on the rusty, barbed end of their 'authority' too many times, as much as I've tried to be respectful and helpful, within the parameters of standing for what I believe in...

Various $&%^ moments where I've been dragged before Elders and the church Executive committee to be reprimanded for various minor perceived flaws and things that happened in ancient history...

Another that was a beauty was in a church committee meeting where they were discussin a new church building. I got a bit confrontational (as the youth rep) as I knew it was a bad idea to spend money on flash buildings when we were rapidly losing all our youth anyway - Suffice to say, discussion degraded rapidly from the previous "Oh, yes Pastor" attitude... At the end they closed in prayer and prayed against Satan for coming and disrupting the meeting. Don't what I was more $&^% about - that a difference in opinion is the work of Satan, or that the implication was that I was doing Satan's work!! I kind of took it as a twisted compliment...
 

---

Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by multipara:
OK, Sarky, you haven't noticed there already is a thread on eulogies in MW which I started in reponse to jlg's kind suggestion. However, in a fit of early-morning absentmindedness I typed in "multipara" for the title.

Could you do something hostly about changing it to a more appropriate title-I would be most grateful.

m

---

quote:

---

Speak for yourself. I believe the Bible -- as does Jesus.

---

I'm with you on that one Mark. Jesus was a particular fan of Hebrews and 1st Timothy.

Raspberry Rabbit
Montreal, QC
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
[tangent]
Heh, you got me on that one Raspberry. But Jesus did clearly believe the OT and told the apostles that the Holy Spirit would "guide them unto all the truth." So I stand by what I said, even if provides a tempting target. (To say more would belong on another thread, in Dead Horses, no doubt.)
[/tangent]
 

---

Posted by Icarus Coot (# 220) on :
 
C'mon lads, let's get back to the f&@#* moments.

I remember one where a lovely hardworking 89yr old woman in the Church (an elder in every respect - am amazing lady who initiates things like 'Mums with young children' groups and keeps in telephonic contact with the mothers of newly baptised children - very successful and they adore her) was asked at the last minute to do one of the readings because the appointed lector hadn't turned up. Being a bit flustered (and trust me she has every single one of her marbles and a mind like a steel trap) she started to read the Gospel by mistake. The poorly people-skilled rector shouted: 'NO! YOU CAN'T READ THAT! That's the Gospel!' 1. Treating her poorly in front of everyone and 2. Disrupting worship for everyone. I mean really, is a little flexibility involving him forgoing the gospel procession and calmly going over to the lectern to read the epistle too much to ask? F#@$^&*!!!!

Another time - same rector, another faithful longtime congregation member. Rector reading the announcements informed the congo of the parish breakfast and its cost. The elderly gentleman who had had some input in organising it, stood up impromptu and told people that if they couldn't afford the cost to offer what they could. The rector yelled: 'SIT DOWN!' which was quite humiliating to the gentleman and embarrassing for the congo. F@#$%%**&!!!!!!!!!

I could go on about the F*&%@*-value of rectors who rank the worth of their congo in 3-tier terms: those with professional skills/big fat professional salaries/professional connections, followed by trade skills (useful for church repair), and then the less desirable aged, sole parents, disability pensioners on low fixed incomes (whose offerings of time in the less prominent areas of keeping a church running were taken for granted nonetheless) - but I won't.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I posted this one on another thread months ago, but here goes again:

My former minister once preached a children's sermon based on that verse in Matthew(I think) that says, "better to have a millstone tied around you neck and be throw into the sea than to mislead any of my little ones." (Which I always thought was a refreshingly straightforward call to be responsible in your behaviour toward children. Let's just say the man in question may have had good reason to resist this translation.)

He garbled this point nicely by telling the children that their parents always worried about their children and that these worries were a burden, like a millstone. He wrapped it up by asking the kids, "You don't want to be like a millstone around you're parent's necks, do you?"

Some people are really complacent with their immortal souls.
 

---

Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 3251) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by nicolemrw:
well i've just had my f-you moment on this thread:

quote:

---

On each occasion the sons of the diseased have insisted on reading eulogies. At least one of them has little interest (or knowledge, shamefully) of Catholic custom or practice.

On each occasion I have wanted to scream - WE'RE CATHOLIC G-DDAMNIT AND WE DON'T EULOGISE.

On each occasion the eulogies were saccharine sentimental and owed more to Hollywood than spiritual tradition.

---

ms bryonic, speaking as someone who's just recently (4 months ago) lost her own father, where the HELL do you get off telling anyone how they should memorialize their father?

---

nicolemrw
The Catholic Requiem Mass is indeed about the resurrection of Christ. But it also contains prayers for the deceased, including of commendation of the deceased to God, which is prayed by the Church as a community. Here is an example from my friend's Allan's funeral:

"Into your hands, Father of mercies,
we commend our brother Allan
in the sure and certain hope
that, together with all who have died in Christ,
He will rise with him on the last day.
Merciful Lord,
turn toward us and listen to our prayers:
open the gates of paradise to your servant
and help us who remain
to comfort one another with assurances of faith,
until we all meet in Christ
and are with you and with our brother for ever."

Therefore in my view it is appropriate both for the priest to refer to the deceased in his homily and for members of the family to say a few appropriate words of love about the deceased and their place within their family and the Church community as a whole. It seems to me to be part of that "comfort with assurances of faith" to remember and memorialise our love for the dead, as we pray to be re-united with them.
 

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Posted by aig (# 429) on :
 
'Forgive my ignorance, but what SHOULD he have done?'

He should have picked it up and reverently eaten it. If you don't like the idea of that, have a quick look at the thread on 'lipstick and chalices'.

My F*$#! moments tend to come during the intercessions - example: a local hospital may close down. Earnest intercessors take time to inform the Lord where the hospital is (with directions from the church), the catchment area it serves and the exact nature of treatment you get there.
GOD ALREADY KNOWS THIS
 

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Posted by AG (# 2103) on :
 
I may have told this story on a board already but it bears repeating (I hope).

I was invited to preach at a church called the Church in the Garden because they meet in a small outhouse in someone's garden. I thought by its name that it was some sort of radical house church and prepared accordingly.

I should have realised that my sermon was not appropriate before I arrived because I asked if they had an overhead projector so that I could display images during my sermon and was told they didn’t own one and were not used to that kind of thing.

When I arrived I should have been warned by the fact that bar one teenager (the daughter of the homeowner) at 40 I was by far the youngest of the 15 of us there. All of the women wore the kind of hats I thought had gone out of fashion years ago. The choice of hymns should have given me a clue.

Nonetheless undeterred I entered the small pulpit laptop in hand to preach my bland sermon “Are we speaking the right language?” It is simply a challenge to present the Christian message in a style that is acceptable and understandable by this generation. There looks of horror as I said there are some who hide the gospel from this generation by using a version of the bible that was written for people 400 years ago but on I went in this vein.

Finally I quoted the now former Archbishop of Canterbury and others who have said that unless we reach this generation there will be no Church for future generations. This proved too much and a man at the back leapt to his feet to declare that he had heard enough of this Liberal Armenian Rubbish, it was God’s church and not the archbishop of Canterbury’s and only God would decide when it ended. I was delighted by this radical exploration of the subject and there followed a full and frank debate in which they told me that I shouldn’t use the NIV because it’s copyright was owned by a publisher of filth?? To which I replied that they seemed happy to use a version of the bible that was sponsored by one of the most immoral possibly bisexual kings of England. After about 15 minutes of this kind of open discussion I decided that I should run away.

Incidentally in the unlikely event that anyone from that church reads this, I never received my preaching fee.
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Slightly less than a F&%$ moment, but definately a wish the floor would open up moment. A member of our congregation had recently been thougth a divorce. Reasonably amicable ( as these things go ) but of her prompting, not his. One morning he got up to read the lesson.

I cannot be certain as to the precise passage, but it was from Paul, on "loving your wives". Someone really should have noticed this.
 

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Posted by Frederick Buechner's Lovechild (# 4058) on :
 
Back in "Norn Iron" (that's Northern Ireland to the rest of you) a while back and happened to go to my home church on Mothering Sunday.

We'd just had a baby, my wife was knackered, and in his children's address the minister (the then Moderator of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland) asked the kids the question "What does a mother need on Mothering Sunday" (try imagining that in a Paisley-esque accent).

The answer - not "breakfast in bed", or "a lie in", or "someone to cook her a meal for a change", or "a bunch of flowers". Oh no. What does a mother need on Mothering Sunday?

"A mother needs a BIBLE".

Only in Ulster.......
 

---

Posted by Lurker (# 1384) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Lewis:
I generally find it good to submit to leaders. Even ones with their heads in the sands and no idea of what life is about. I think this reflects positively on me. I have had some jerks in leadership over me but the bible says we should submit to those in authority. It doesn't say we should submit irrespectively of their abuse of authority. But I do anyway.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by aig:
My F*$#! moments tend to come during the intercessions - example: a local hospital may close down. Earnest intercessors take time to inform the Lord where the hospital is (with directions from the church), the catchment area it serves and the exact nature of treatment you get there.
GOD ALREADY KNOWS THIS

---

I really hate the people who use the intersessions to gossip. "Lord, please give guidance to John Smith who was arrested for drunk driving again on the way to his mistress' house." A bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
AG
 

---

Posted by Lou Poulain (# 1587) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by aig:
'Forgive my ignorance, but what SHOULD he have done?'

He should have picked it up and reverently eaten it.
:

---

Oh, please! That's one reason why the church has a sacrarium. I've had the experience described. You kneel down, pick up the host, hold it to the bottom of the paten with your hand that's holding the paten, and quietly go into the sacristy after the communion rite and deposit the host in the sacrarium. It's inobtrusive and not irreverent and better yet, less hazardous to your health.

Lou
 

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Posted by Lou Poulain (# 1587) on :
 
I've had a few "f%*$" moments, and I have very occasionally walked out of church.

When in college I was providing music at an early mass in an inner city parish. One Sunday there was an impassioned appeal for financial help for 10 families who had been evicted from their barrio tenement housing the previous day and were literally homeless. I was also part of the music group at the university chapel. That day there was a priest who was working for the cause of canonization of Junipero Serra, and his organization "desparately" needed $10,000 to cover the cost of xeroxing documents. I first quietly departed the church, then let loose with my "f*&^*%". Needless to say, I donated for the ten homeless families, and the priest needed to look elsewhere for money for his copier machine.

Lou
 

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Posted by Charis (# 206) on :
 
I didn't yell, but walked out, when this idjit pastor (on Easter, when the stunning miracle of the Resurrection should have been at least part of his sermon) told me Christians have an obligation to support government welfare programs.

Almost as bad as a right wing type telling me God wants us to vote Republican.

When we all KNOW God is a Libertarian...


 

---

Posted by pvawiggin (# 4059) on :
 
Along the lines sayin F*$#! in the middle of a service...

Here's a sample of typical Sunday in our church since our new pastor arrived in October... All I have to say is that it's going to be a LONG year before we can vote him out!

11:00 - Sing one hymn - played (by the pastor's wife) like it's a funeral dirge.

11:03 - Greeting time - let's all shake hands, or, if you are the pastor's wife you will hug people even though they have made it *painfully* obvious that they do not wish to be hugged.

11:05 - Pastor tells us to sit only to have the pastor's wife insist we stand in the very next second because "you sing better when you are standing and if you can cheer at a baseball game you can cheer in church"

11:05-11:30 - Pastor's wife pulls out a tambourine while her daugher plays the electric keyboard (and badly) and leads us in "worship music" - this consists of 12 songs we don't know so it's just them singing, much like a concert - and, mostly, the words consist of constantly repeating phrases such as "We sing holy, holy, holy", because, you know it's not worshipful if you don't repeat the chorus 10,000 times. And, of course, it's not "worship time" if you don't talk in between each song telling the congregation how to be as righteous as you are.

11:30-11:40 - The pastor's wife reads the announcements out of the bulletin and elaborates on them, endlessly, and using the word "people" in every sentence (E.G. "People, we have to be good stewards of our time and money. And, people, let's not forget that God wants us to have a blessing. But, people, we need to be open to God's leading..." etc...)

11:40-12:10 - The pastor preaches about how Joseph was thrown into the lion's den and how the God sent an angel to shut the mouths of the lions and not long after this he was rejected by his parents and his father hated him and sent him away to Egypt where he found himself in prison. Then this prison guard had this dream and eventually told Pharoh that Portifare's (yes, that's what he said!) wife really stole Joseph's coat of many colors and that he was put in prison illegally. (No exaggration... I can't even make this stuff up.)

12:10-12:15 - The pastor gives an altar call and sings "Just as I Am" (God, help us) and we are dismissed.

I have to confess, if I wasn't so fascinated by the pastor's interpretation of classic Bible stories, I would have said "F*$# this!" right from the time the tambourine came out of where ever she hids it so "people" like me won't burn the damn thing!
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by pvawiggin:
Along the lines sayin F*$#! in the middle of a service...

Here's a sample of typical Sunday in our church since our new pastor arrived in October... All I have to say is that it's going to be a LONG year before we can vote him out!

---

Maybe it's not so much about voting the pastor out, as taking his wife out mafia style.... just a knee-jerk reaction...not serious.... I repent immediately for even suggesting it......
 

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Posted by Presleyterian (# 1915) on :
 
12:15 - Pvawiggin starts searching for a new place to worship as long as the current regime is running the squirrel cage.

Many pastors' spouses make substantial contributions to the life of the church and for that we should be grateful. But I, too, have seen pastors insinuate their wives into inappropriate places in the liturgy. One such spouse we nicknamed "Sophia" after Francis Ford Coppola ruined "Godfather III" by giving his untalented daughter of that name the starring role.

And welcome, pvawiggin. I'll try not to call you any names behind your back.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:
just a knee-jerk reaction...not serious.... I repent immediately for even suggesting it......

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Acolyte:
This wasn't as traumatizing or offensive as in some of the other posts I've read...

---

Liturgical dance to "Lord I Lift Your Name on High" is traumatizing enough!
 

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Posted by Proteus (# 4020) on :
 
Last week the worship leader at my church was asked to be more 'mellow' in his worship leading. As a particularly arty musician he got pissed off towards the end of the meeting, threw his acoustic guitar at the bass player and picked up his electric. I have to say I agreed with his sentiments!
 

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Posted by madkaren (# 1033) on :
 
Throwing guitars at people!!! His feelings yes, his way of dealing with them no.
I hope the bass player threw it back.

MadKaren
 

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Posted by Troy (# 2516) on :
 
A missionary came to a church I briefly attended and told us that (regarding the masses in poverty and hunger around the world) it does no good to send food aid to those people, because food aid does not change their eternal destination.

He also told us that we should spend our money on bare essentials and give the rest to missions.

If the pastor hadn't been so nice to me when I first moved into town, I would have walked out immediately.

-Troy
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by babybear:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:
just a knee-jerk reaction...not serious.... I repent immediately for even suggesting it......

---

But you are still smiling at the thought, aren't you.

bb

---

I'll work on repenting of that, too!
 

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Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
(Perhaps we should start a support group for all those of us who are smirking along with you, Anselmina, and failing to repent. )

quote:

---

Posted by Acolyte:
<snip>
And usually, liturgical dance just goes right off the scale in terms of that 'cringe factor.' (I have seen trained dancers move into unplanned, personal and worshipful dance, who look as though they are touching heaven, but not often, and that's not what I'm talking about here!) Some of the most tasteless and appalling things are done under the name of liturgical dance.
<snip>

---

You'll enjoy the Liturgical Dance Fever thread in MW, Acolyte!
 

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Posted by Zeke (# 3271) on :
 
I remember a pastor at a church I no longer attend who would give a "sermon in song" about twice a year. After a classical anthem done by a choir of 50, he went to a piano he had arranged to be put in the front and center and proceeded to ramble semicoherently, playing chords all the while like a religious Steve Allen. From time to time he would be moved to break into a worship chorus of some sort, singing it over several times, presumably vamping until he could think of something else to say. It was appallingly tacky, and artistically painful to those of us in the choir, who unfortunately were not allowed to walk out.
 

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Posted by Zeke (# 3271) on :
 
The really amazing part was that there were certain members who adored it, and considered it to be a real treat, apparently one of the high spots of their year.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Acolyte:
Week after week, we witness the same miracle: that God, for reasons unfathomable, refrains from blowing our dancing bear act to smithereens."

---

I state categorically that I have not been dancing during any services in over 15 years!

It was not me, and even if it was, it was not an act, it was worship!

bb
 

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Posted by mrs.stewart (# 3798) on :
 
A couple of years ago a preacher came from London to speak at our church opening with "Who's happy here today? I'm SOOOOOOOOO HAPPY!! I've got a gorgeous wife, beautiful children..." and on and so forth leaving most of the congregation bemused and some decidedly NOT happy at his insinuation that we, like him, should be SOOOOOOOOOO HAAAPPY...Grr.
 

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Posted by Thurible (# 3206) on :
 
"In the name of the Creator, the Redeemer and the Sanctifier," always annoys me. What's wrong with "Father, Son and Holy Spirit"?

Thurible
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Er, maybe different words help you to think about the multi-faceted characters of the different persons of God??


 

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Posted by madferret (# 3353) on :
 
So sound guy turns on CD player for "Kids Song" bit. Totally distorted sound; youth leader attempts to do best she can.

I feel like shouting F*$#! but refrain. As I am that sound guy...
 

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Posted by Mrs Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
My old church was involved in a joint project to fund a youth centre along with other churches in the area. Once the centre was ready to open, there was a joint service organised by all the churches involved as an act of celebration.

Each church did their bit but one of the churches section was entirely about the project they ran in the same area - which had nothing to do with the joint project everyone was celebrating.

A young girl from the church then sang a solo. She had a wonderful - but completely untrained voice - and kept taking loud gulps of air before the start of each verse. She also had someone standing behind her during this process waving hands above her like a charismatic weeble.

After this section of the service was over, the leaders from that church then got up and walked out so they wouldn't miss the start of their own evening service. How rude ...

Tubbs
 

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Posted by terce (# 966) on :
 
I was around 19, and a leader at a kid's camp run by a missionary group. The study leader (sorry, he was American) told us that years ago, he had vowed never to eat breakfast until he had witnessed to someone. "And Aaahh've never missed out on breakfast yet!"

He then challenged us, very strongly, to make the same vow as he had made. I was mortified, because I could not make that vow as I would have missed out on most breakfasts.

I felt that I was letting God down, but also had to be honest. I was too young to confront this man about his spiritual abuse.
 

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Posted by pvawiggin (# 4059) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Presleyterian:
12:15 - Many pastors' spouses make substantial contributions to the life of the church and for that we should be grateful...

---

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, there are some pastors' spouses that are alright - my mother is one, actually.

I try to make allowances considering I was once on the other side as a pastor's kid but I can be very critical for the same reason.
 

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Posted by pvawiggin (# 4059) on :
 
Gripe of the day...

Some idiot posted my email address in the church directory... now the pastor's wife is sending me morning "devotionals" - typed ALL IN CAPS.


 

---

Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by pvawiggin:
Gripe of the day...

Some idiot posted my email address in the church directory... now the pastor's wife is sending me morning "devotionals" - typed ALL IN CAPS.

---

You have my deepest and most sincere sympathies, pvawiggin (I bet they're similar to the ones a friend sends me).

"Let us "
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
Gracious, I've hardly got the wits to eat in the morning. But seriously, trying to explain theology before noon?

Zach
 

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Posted by Regina Shoe (# 4076) on :
 
I attended an Assembly of God church for a while that, as a whole, seriously bought into this whole "you can't be a real Christian if you don't vote Republican" thing. As a closet liberal, this caused me no end of internal "F*$#!" moments, such as:

From a Sunday School teacher: "Democrats just don't have the same values that we Christians do."

From another Sunday School teacher: "So we've established that God's special blessing is on America." (And though not in so many words, he had just been going on about how God loved Americans better than everybody else.) "So why do you think God established the United States?" I was too stunned to blurt out what I was thinking, which was, "He had something against the people who were already living here at the time?"

(By which I would mean no disrespect to the founding fathers of the U.S.A., or to the country itself, which is composed of many wonderful people -- I just don't see the U.S. government as the direct agent of God on most matters, as this gentleman seemed to do.)

Oh, and then there was the Independence Day service, which was such an over-the-top orgy of patriotism that it only qualified as a "worship service" if worshipping the flag counts. We're talking people marching up the aisle in Revolutionary War costumes playing flute and drums, multimedia presentations ending with an inspiring shot of the U.S. flag, and of course the pastor passionately singing Lee Greenwood's "I'm Proud to Be an American" with loud taped accompaniment.



Again, nothing wrong with patriotism, but I came to worship *God*, not a particular nation of some of his children...

(Now that I'm at a Mennonite church, that service - tributes to the branches of the military included - seems rather surreal. But then, my current church has had its own moments, particularly for my closet conservative husband.)
 

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Posted by PeachyKeenJellybean (# 4077) on :
 
I have such several "aw %^@$" moments...this is one of them...

I was at church in Indiana and I found in my hymnal an old bulletin...and in that bulletin, there's this quote:

"Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than being in a garage makes you a car."

Hey...that is what my nominally Catholic family said and they attend services at St Bloomingdales. I wish I can find the bozo who thought first of that quote and read him the riot act. Christians aren't an island to themselves and if they do not acknowledge the Church as their mother, they do not have God as their father.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
I remember hearing Billy Graham coming out with that gem. I don't know if he coined the phrase though.

bb
 

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Posted by anglicanrascal (# 3412) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by babybear:
I remember hearing Billy Graham coming out with that gem. I don't know if he coined the phrase though.

---

Nahh, it was St Augustine.
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
Augustine foresaw cars and garages?
 

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Posted by Aldo (# 4084) on :
 
Sorry to say it my biggest F*$~! moment has been reading this discussion. It has become a self parody!
 

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Posted by Zeke (# 3271) on :
 
Well, rah-tee-tah. As a newcomer, you are certainly nervy to use your first post like this. Welcome to the Ship, and may your future experiences be more enlightening.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
A veritable crop of newbies here indeed. Welcome to y'all, and congratulations on registering and posting (especially first posts in Hell, ). Feel free to wander the decks, and both read and post on the other boards. Do take a minute to read both the 10 Commandments, and also the guidelines specific to each board.

Finally, a note to everyone else: Yes, we're in hell, but remember apprentices get cut some slack even so. Make light with your flames *stern frown*

Viki, hellhost
 

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Posted by Bunt Wellington (# 3577) on :
 
I recall the congregation being admonished one morning for not singing "joyfully enough". Our noses were stuck in the hymn books and we weren't raising our voices in praise. I was given several direct looks, since I'm well known to be an anti-social renegade within the group. I closed the hymnal and stared as threateningly as possible at the pulpit for the remainder of the song service. Several phrases crossed my mind but I was not tempted to utter any of them out loud. I'm well known as the one who does not participate in the "turn and shake a brother's hand" or the responsive readings.
 

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Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
Bunt, I hate that, too.

"Be happy NOW!"

One time, this "worship" leader was obnoxiously happy happy and yacky yacky. In the midst of his act, he said, "Some of you probably wish I would shut up." I immediately responded, "Yes," and got some looks. I'm glad I did it, though.

(And, sarkycow, you're being compassionate. I am so disappointed. )
 

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Posted by nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 

quote:

---

"Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than being in a garage makes you a car."

---

this is, of course, true. my father, no christian in any sense of the word, attended church regularly for many years. he liked being with my mother, and he liked the coffee hour afterwards.
 

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Posted by homerj (# 324) on :
 
in my church recently, the minister, (who usually seems to know better), made us re-sing a children's song as we 'hadn't got the actions right'...

I had to busily re-read the notice sheet for the 100th time
 

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Posted by Rob - ID crisis InDiE KiD (# 3256) on :
 
I assume we are talking about the kind of five-minute prayers that include the lines "Lord, help us to realise that unless we do something all 10,000 people in this city are going to hell..."

Yep, they're all lost without a clue. Give me a break. Pray for something bloody worthwhile!
 

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Posted by ThatsMrJuice2U (# 3076) on :
 
This didn't happen to me but to a friend of mine. He was attending one of these "seeker-friendly" churches. One day the pastor gave his sermon dressed in one of those athletic workout suits, and preached on the importance of being physically fit.

Then at the end, he had the worship band strike up a rendition of Olivia Newton-John's "Let's Get Physical".

My friend never went back to that church.

Though I would have loved to have seen the look on his face, or to see a whole room of people doing
 

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Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:

---

Originally posted by pvawiggin:
Along the lines sayin F*$#! in the middle of a service...

Here's a sample of typical Sunday in our church since our new pastor arrived in October... All I have to say is that it's going to be a LONG year before we can vote him out!

---

Maybe it's not so much about voting the pastor out, as taking his wife out mafia style.... just a knee-jerk reaction...not serious.... I repent immediately for even suggesting it......

---

I bet she has big hair, lots of jewellery and shiny teeth. I'll take her out of the picture, how much you got?
 

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Posted by Kepler's Puppet (# 4011) on :
 
My worst church experiences usually involve a sermon that begins with a phrase like "Christians shouldn't be ignorant."

A few weeks back my pastor decided to preach a sermon against abortion. He told us that Christians shouldn't be so ignorant of everything in contemporary culture. He then blasted "secular humanists and scientists" for "filling Christian heads with the idea that humans have anything in common with animals, even on the physical level." He went on to tell us that "the abortion debate is not centered around whether a fetus is alive but whether or not it is human." Well and good, until he gave us five or six reasons why the fetus is alive ("it has a heartbeat", "it had arms and legs that move", etc) and concluded directly from this that a fetus is human. He added that if we still weren't convinced, consider the fact that a baby in the womb feels pain. Pain is a human thing, so the baby must be alive.

If this needs explanation than I think I know a church you might like to attend. We have sermons like this about once a month, free for your enjoyment.
 

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Posted by auntbeast (# 377) on :
 
Oh! That reminds me of one of my other favourite *$&#*$& moments in a church. I was working in a small town away from home and went to the only local church, PAOC I think. They had Sunday school for everyone before the service so I, at the ripe old age of about 28 headed off to the "adult" Sunday school class. I arrived, sat down and then watched as the rest of the room filled with men..ooops! It appears that I was in fact supposed to go to the ladies one down the hall but I only found this out after the class when I saw a second sign for the "ladies" (class, not WC).

In this unfortunate class we were studying Samuel, can't remember excatly what part, and one of the questions from the pastor (who was a decent man in spite of some of his flock) asked us to think of an example where the ends justified the means. A man at the front cited the example of an anti-abortionist in the states who had murdered a doctor who did abortions. I clarified for the man in question that the pastor had asked for a situation where the ends DID justify the means, thinking he had misheard.... nope this evil creature said, that yes, that was what he meant that it was justified to kill the doctor as he was killing babies. I was so dumbfounded I could not come up with suitable invectives to hurl at him.

Needless to say I skipped Sunday school from then on, and only went to service a couple of times in desperation as it was the only worship within 100 km.

Cheers,
Auntbeast
 

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Posted by Regina Shoe (# 4076) on :
 
Thought of another one. This time from a very progressive (in most ways) and relatively racially diverse Baptist church in the Atlanta area.

A little background: I was part of a small but spirited gospel choir that had formed to add some lively African-American-style music to the services. The majority of the service music was provided by the much larger main choir and by the minister of music's wife, who was a virtuoso organist. The impression that I got from both the minister of music and his wife was that they viewed anything other than classical music in church as rather suspect, and didn't think much of the gospel choir at all. (Mercifully, neither of them directed it.)

Anyway, at one service, the gospel choir had just finished a particularly rousing number that we actually pulled off pretty well. The congregation was clapping along, and you could see people smiling and tapping their toes. As soon as we finished, and before we had even filed back into our seats in the congregation, the music minister's wife launched into this THUNDEROUS organ chord that started some obscure and weighty Bach fugue. It sounded like something from an old horror movie featuring a creepy old castle. You could actually see a lot of the congregation physically recoiling (and no small number suppressing giggles).

I noticed that after that service, there was always a prayer or some sort of speech immediately following the gospel choir numbers...
 

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Posted by Kenneth Moyle (# 3445) on :
 
Too late to wade in? Hope not, 'cause I've gone and rolled the ol' bell-bottoms up.

Two of three years ago, it was. I read in the newspaper that the Anglican cathedral in town would be having Evensong Sunday next. I do love Evensong, and it's a rather rare thing these days, so off my wife and I set out. Set out on foot, in fact, feeling that 45 minutes of walking on either side of sung evening prayers of an autumn eve would be just the thing.

Feeling all brisk and ready to sing, up the stairs and in the big doors went, only to pause warily at the sight of a woman carrying a tambourine. This was a bad omen. Next we see a balding man with a ratty pony tail and a guitar heading for the sanctuary. Then a middle-aged man pulling a t-shirt over his shirt and tie. Then we see that there are about six people in these t-shirts, and one of them is positioning an OHP.

The panic was setting in, but since we have just walked for the better part of an hour, I insisted that we sit down and see what happens.

What happened is that about ten minutes into a bunch of choruses I'd never encountered in all my Anglican, Pentecostal and Charismatic RC days, the worship leader asked us to take out our car keys. I was already nearly overcome with the shuddering horrors, kept steady only by the schadenfreude of the sight of the befuddled septegenarians around me (seemingly, having made the same mistake about "evensong" that I had) trying to be hep to the spirit and clapping along under repeated prodding. But then, after explaining something about the cause that the roadshow was drumming up support for, we were asked to jangle our keys to the music. And that was just too much.

I'm afraid that my reaction would have more likely been to have crawled under the pew than to belt out a hearty expletive, but before I could slink my wife marched up the aisle and out the door, quite shaking with fury and muttering $@%^!-ish noises. I meekly followed. We formed a little staggered procession, in fact, my wife and me and two of the aforementioned septegarians.

"Evensong."

Bastards.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Moyle (# 3445) on :
 
Oh, @$@&!

I accidentally posted the above as a new thread.
Would one of you kind adminy type just nuke it please?

Sigh...
 

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Posted by Miffy (# 1438) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eanswyth:

quote:

---

Originally posted by aig:
My F*$#! moments tend to come during the intercessions - example: a local hospital may close down. Earnest intercessors take time to inform the Lord where the hospital is (with directions from the church), the catchment area it serves and the exact nature of treatment you get there.
GOD ALREADY KNOWS THIS

---

I really hate the people who use the intersessions to gossip. "Lord, please give guidance to John Smith who was arrested for drunk driving again on the way to his mistress' house." A bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.

---

quote:

---

I bet she has big hair, lots of jewellery and shiny teeth. I'll take her out of the picture, how much you got?

---

How did you know???!? Further identifying feature... is about 50lbs overweight but still thinks she looks good in very tight miniskirts.

People just don't seem to understand that there is a weight limit on certain clothes. Miniskirts shouldn't come in "sizes" but in "weight allowance".
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by terce:
The study leader (sorry, he was American) told us that years ago, he had vowed never to eat breakfast until he had witnessed to someone. "And Aaahh've never missed out on breakfast yet!"

---

quote:

---

If a man rises early in the morning and blesses his neighbour, his blesses shall be counted as curses unto him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thurible:
"In the name of the Creator, the Redeemer and the Sanctifier," always annoys me. What's wrong with "Father, Son and Holy Spirit"?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Regina Shoe:
From another Sunday School teacher: "So we've established that God's special blessing is on America." (And though not in so many words, he had just been going on about how God loved Americans better than everybody else.) "So why do you think God established the United States?"

---

I have feelings like this whenever the hymn (sung to the tune of "God Save the Queen") is sung in my own (Episcopal) churches -- or at least the lines about "Long may our land be bright/ with freedom's holy light..." -- our secular freedoms may be a very good and nice thing, but whatever they may be, they are not intrinsically "holy!"

Bad theology, in hymns or otherwise, generally pisses me off.

Thankfully I have not encountered sermons like the ones you describe!
 

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Posted by Ka_nowlies (# 4096) on :
 
I posted this on the wrong board b4 - oops!

I was in a church service at New Life Church in CHCH, NEw Zealand and a visiting preacher (Pat Mesietie (sp!?)) told woman who had been raped and abused that they quote "Needed to get over it" unquote... that sure made me want to scream F*%K!!!

Phil
 

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Posted by terce (# 966) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by terce:
The study leader (sorry, he was American) told us that years ago, he had vowed never to eat breakfast until he had witnessed to someone. "And Aaahh've never missed out on breakfast yet!"

---

If it happens again, quote Proverbs 27.14:

quote:

---

If a man rises early in the morning and blesses his neighbour, his blesses shall be counted as curses unto him.

---

---

Thank you, thank you! I never knew that verse was there!

It's now one of my favourites ...
 

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Posted by icklejen (# 713) on :
 
not start another anti-cu thread...but most of my f*** moments have been in cu.

i think the best was on this years "houseparty" when the idiot speaker, after having bored us with 'thou must not have sex' talks and made no sense all weekend, concluded his final sermon with tips for Christian living...

1) sending and recieving text messages is wrong, because we are measuring our popularity, rather than being secure in God (2) going to the cinema with non-christians is wrong because we cannot witness to them during the film (3) if a non-christian friend is upset it is better to take them to a cu run 'evangelistic' than to talk to them personally

i managed to stay calm at the time, but i later found out that someone had left cu entirely because of my bad example in not paying attention on houseparty. well f*** me!
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

i managed to stay calm at the time, but i later found out that someone had left cu entirely because of my bad example in not paying attention on houseparty. well f*** me!

---

Didn't that give you a nice feeling of power?

Think of all the organizations you can undermine by your bad example.

Moo
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Jen, I think you should go back to the CU many times. Just think of how many people you can liberate in this manner You've found your vocation in life

And Ka_nowlies, welcome to Hell. Feel free to wander round the rest of the SHip and post anywhere you like. You're right, that's a f*&$ moment alright. Didya punch the preacher afterwards? Or just have a word from God for him, that went along the lines of "God says you should f*%$ off and crawl back under your rock."?

Viki, hellhost
 

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Posted by Gambit (# 766) on :
 
It's worth knowing that if you really want to disturb members of the CU, ask them if brute force and ignorance are gifts of the Spirit.

I asked this of a member at university I was told a few days later they were praying for the 'devil to be removed from my mind and my tongue'.

Result!

Gambit
(The devil must still be there, 'cos that's funny as hell)
 

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Posted by ambrose (# 4103) on :
 
first time poster- long time lurker

Last year, I used to attend daily Mass at a small Catholic church where I had many F**k moments. One more memorable moment occured when the priest said that we shouldn't do anything to help Aborigines (gave no specific reason) and threw out any info sent to him by indigineous agencies. In the same sermon, he also said that a certain Bishop who had taken two underage aboriginal girls to "live" with him were understandable, and that they were probably better off with him. This was on the day the Pope apologised to Australia's aborigines for past injustice and mistreatment.

This was just one small example, but I used to lose my faith every morning! Couldn't switch parishes either as I had ME/CFS thus limited mobility.

My aunty had the same priest 30 years ago and remembers him as a "grumpy-bum"
 

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Posted by SirJeff (# 4089) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThatsMrJuice2U:
This didn't happen to me but to a friend of mine. He was attending one of these "seeker-friendly" churches. One day the pastor gave his sermon dressed in one of those athletic workout suits, and preached on the importance of being physically fit.

Then at the end, he had the worship band strike up a rendition of Olivia Newton-John's "Let's Get Physical".

---

I don't think I've ever laughed as hard as I did when I read this. "Let's Get Physical," indeed! Er, was that supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, or was the meaning of that song lost on them completely?

I wish I could remember the proper context of my most infuriating moment, but it's been several years now. I was still regularly attending my parents' church, which I haven't been to in at least four years now, so this must have been six or seven years ago. This church has problems, to say the least. After one pastor resigned, the search committee took a whole year to hire another one who promptly quit after the first week (good job there, guys!), hired another one who served for a year or two before he had to leave because of poor health (this was sad, and he was quite good), then spent so many years trying to find another one that I think they went through several interim pastors. Or maybe they just had a bunch of guest ones. I don't know for sure...I never felt comfortable there, and I finally lost interest in what was going on.

Anyway, it was one of these guest speakers who, while not really a "hellfire and damnation" type, seemed to be really judgmental. I don't remember the whole context, because I blocked much of it out, but the altar call at the end involved some sort of commitment which, of course, there was no excuse any real Christian shouldn't be willing to make, and all those willing to commit should come to the front (to the "altar," which of course does not really exist in a Southern Baptist church, but that's another tangent). His goal was to get the whole congregation up there, and he kept at it until he had bullied most of them up. My parents went, but I didn't buy into it. I was glad to see that I wasn't the only one who stayed glued to my seat. When the guy had gotten all he was going to get, he started praying, first for the ones who did come up, and then for those of us who were "resisting," as though we were missing out on some special part of God's grace by not doing what this dude (not God, mind you, as I felt no particular instruction in this matter for Him) told us to.

I certainly knew I was in possession of God-given grace, because it took every bit that I had not to yell out what I thought of this particular tactic.

Later, my folks were made well aware of how I felt about that style of ministering.
 

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Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
I remember one particularly pleasant missionary talk where a missionary from South Africa gave a lovely forty minute sermon about the lax morals of black people. And only about half the congregation knew that his 17 year old white daughter was pregnant by someone whose name she'd never really learned.

I had to be restrained from expressing my opinion with much use of the f*** word and instead resorted to walking out as loudly as I could.

Never went back - asked to remove my membership the next day.
 

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Posted by ManInCageJackWilson (# 4072) on :
 
I've had a few such experiences at a small church in my hometown, where I thankfully spend very little time these days.

One irksome quality (though not so much a f^*k inducer) was the pastor's tendency to turn the word bible into an adjective. That is, when railing against something he felt was not biblical he would regularly invoke the phrase "That's not bible!" Tremendously annoying.

Another specific moment I recall was during one of his rather frequent anti-gay tangents where he offered the following brilliant postulation:
"I sometimes wonder how gay people think the world would continue to be populated if they got their way."
 

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Posted by Phase42 (# 3823) on :
 
I've been attending two churches for about 5-6 months. My "regular" church is a Four Square church, where I have been the bassist for the worship team for about eight years. I began to attend the second church with a drummer friend, as that church needed a bassist as well.

The second church is an independent Protestant church, with the name "A Jesus Place for Joe Average". The pastor also happens to be ordained by the Four Square church, but this particular congregation is not associated with that denomination.

I'm leaving the second church for a number of reasons, several having to do with being weary of banging my head against the wall attempting to teach the worship team to play together as a group rather than as a jumble of musicians who just happen to be playing the same song.

But on to my F!@#$ moments:

1 - Communion. The pastor believes in taking Communion every day, which is somewhat unusual in Protestant circles. But, I have no issue with that, as I feel his reasoning is sound and Biblical. As a result, we partake of the bread and grape juice every Sunday.

My issue is with how he conducts the ceremony. He has both the bread and juice distributed to the entire congregation right at the beginning of the ceremony, with everybody standing. Then he proceeds to give a 20 minute sermon about the benefits of daily Communion. And then he finally instructs everyone to eat the bread and drink the juice.

Apparently, he doesn't realize just how difficult it is for people to stand in one spot, unmoving for 20-25 minutes, whilst holding a tiny cup of juice in one hand and a tiny piece of bread in the other. There is no place to set the elements down while he lectures on and on. And the problem with his lecture is that he has now been repeating himself to the same small congregation for nearly four months now. I think we all get the point by now! Frankly, I can see no indication in the Biblical account of the Last Supper that Jesus took more than a few minutes to instruct his disciples, "Eat, drink!"

And perhaps this is petty, but he also insists on serving really heavy dark brown, multi-grain & nut bread for communion, because it's more nutritious than white bread or crackers. The flavor of the bread is quite unpleasant to me, and I don't see how the older people with false teeth can even eat the stuff, there is so much birdseed baked into it.

2 - Speaking in tongues. Okay, I was raised in a charismatic Pentecostal church, so tongues are nothing new to me (though I don't speak in tongues myself). Two Sundays ago, the pianist burst out in tongues, *very* loudly, during the prayer time. Okay, no problem there. Her shouting was followed, though, by a woman somewhere in the congregation, also very loudly. It was the second round of "tongues" that bothered me.

The language sounded suspiciously like Italian or Portugese (not Spanish - I hear a lot of Mexican Spanish around my town, and there were no Hispanics in the congregation). What really raised my eyebrows was when I distinctly heard the words "Santa Maria" in the midst of this outburst. When you consider the fact that most tongue-speaking charismatics believe their language to be an unknown, Heavenly language, and then consider the fact that Protestants don't spend a whole lot of time praying to Saint Mary, this woman's "tongues" just didn't seem credible.

Needless to say, there was no "interpretation" of either outburst.

Additionally, my drummer friend is a fairly new Christian, and these outbursts scared the hell out of him. He was suddenly terrified that he had gotten involved with a cult, and ended up later phoning a number of pastors and counselors he'd met to find out what these tongues were all about.

So those things, combined with the fact that this church service follows immediately after my first church and leaves me unable to fellowship with my home congregation, has prompted me to simply leave that second church.
 

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Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Phase42:

The language sounded suspiciously like Italian or Portugese (not Spanish - I hear a lot of Mexican Spanish around my town, and there were no Hispanics in the congregation). What really raised my eyebrows was when I distinctly heard the words "Santa Maria" in the midst of this outburst. When you consider the fact that most tongue-speaking charismatics believe their language to be an unknown, Heavenly language, and then consider the fact that Protestants don't spend a whole lot of time praying to Saint Mary, this woman's "tongues" just didn't seem credible.

Needless to say, there was no "interpretation" of either outburst.

---

Lack of interpretation may be a valid point, although interpretation is only needed if the outburst is Prophecy. If she was just praying very loudly in tongues, then it probably was private, without need for interpretation.

Do beware of assuming that the proper exercise of charismatic gifts automatically conforms to and validates "Protestant" theology and assumptions. I know far more RC charismatics than Protestant ones. If they were to invoke one of the many St. Mary's there are, and if I were to be aware that they were, why would I be surprised? As what is said in tongues -- if authentic -- is from God, why should I doubt it? More to the point, why would someone trying to deceive do such an unexpected thing as refer to St. Mary in a Protestant congregation? And for that matter, if the congregation did not include any Spanish speakers, that would make it more likely, not less, that an authentic tongue might be Spanish or related to it.

By all means test the use of tongues, but do not pre-judge the user or what is said.

John Holding
 

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Posted by Elizabeth Anne (# 3555) on :
 
When I was about 13 years old, I was in church on Mother's Day when the priest announced that he was going to honor the mothers of the parish. He started giving out little ribbons to the oldest mother, the youngest mother, the newest mother, etc etc etc. I would have had no problem with this if fathers were acknowledged in a similar way on, say, Father's Day, but there never was. The message was clear: "See, women of the church? We won't let you hold positions of authority or anything like that, but we will acknowledge your importance to us......as breeding machines!"

For lack of a better word, *&$%!
 

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Posted by Phase42 (# 3823) on :
 
John -

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. However, having spent a lot of time in situations where people were praying or speaking in tongues, I'm generally very comfortable with it. I guess it was the circumstances of this particular outburst that made me feel as if something wasn't quite right.

In particular, I have observed in this church what seems to be a conscious attempt on the part of the leadership to induce strong emotional responses in people under the guise of "the moving of the Spirit". For example, pastoral prayers that go on and on and on, becoming very repetitive, building in intensity as if to whip the listeners into a frenzy, and only stopping when one or two people in the congregation finally join in, usually very loudly but not always in tongues.

Perhaps I'm simply very insensitive to the Spirit. But as I said, I've grown up in and spent a lot of time with charismatic Christians and this church just doesn't seem right much of the time. I believe this is partly testified to by slow but steady dwindling of the congregation. I've seen a very small number of new faces, but many of the people I saw there six months ago are gone.

Some of the church leaders, including the pastor, have openly stated that they wish to recreate a large, very charismatic church that existed in this town 20 years ago. That church was destroyed because of some financial shenanigans on the part of its treasurer, and many people were hurt. I believe that old church grew because the Spirit *was* moving in it. Unfortunately, this new church seems to be trying to *force* the Spirit to move.
 

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Posted by ej (# 2259) on :
 
I'm still amazed how many people this thread is bringing out!! Clearly tapped a vein here...

A few CU moments back there, so I thought I'd balance the equation with some SFC (Students for Christ) ^#$@! moments:

- The visiting guest preacher in the midst of the whole Toronto blessing thing who was a rampant 'pusher'... The 6 of us who were onto him kept wandering around the room so he couldn't get to us - Eventually he did, but luckily it's hard for a short-arse to push down my 6ft3 frame...

- The conference session where of the 300 hundred or so people in the audience, he asked all those who were 'baptised in the holy spirit and who could thus speak in tonuges' to come up the front and get prayed for... Needless to say, this made everyone who remained sitting down feel like complete inadequate shit, watching all the 'blessed' ones get prayed for and stuff... My poor non-Christian friend who I'd brought along, and who was interested, naturally got hideously offended and i'd say it was a severe issue for him in eventually rejecting the faith - or at least 'that' faith.

A non-SFC one that a friend told me about (so not my moment specifically, but still worth sharing), was at some women's church breakfast, where the visiting speaker, obviously in a cheeky mood, decided to break the ice with a little game. She got everyone to stand up and then did the usual "everyone who has done 'X' sit down", which is fine until the question was "everyone who has had sex this week, sit down"..... Not only was it very awkward for everybody as you quickly mentally debated whether you should or shouldn't sit down (depending on your marital status, sex life, and social standing!), but this poor girl was next to her mother... who sat down!!
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Ambrose, SirJeff, Phase42 and ManInCageJackWilson - welcome to both hell and to the boards generally. Glad to see y'all so quickly getting the hang of the atmosphere round here. Feel free to wander round the other boards and participate as you see fit - please read the 10 Commandments and also the relevant board guidelines before you post elsewehere.

Have fun

Viki, hellhost
 

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Posted by Ka_nowlies (# 4096) on :
 
Viki - nah I didn't smack him - I was in my Pente days and though it was a momentary lapse of reason on his part... what my mate had to say about Crazy Pat:
..............

My favourite Mesiti moment was when he said hed give away a CD to the
person who put the most in the offertory, and then made people call out
how much they'd put in! One kid yelled out "a hundred dollars" or
something like that, so Pat gave him a CD. A couple minutes later he
confessed he hadn't put any money in at all, and so rather than forgive him
and thank him for his honesty, he hauled the poor guy to the front and
made a public spectacle out of him! FECK!!!

Phil.
 

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Posted by Ka_nowlies (# 4096) on :
 
I'm getting the hang of this so I just have to share another one...

I've been involved in church music for about as long as I can remember, and the group I was working with at the time had a meeting with our Youth Pastor. We had questioned the direction he was attempting to take the service we were involved in, and he said to us (virtually a direct quote":
"You guys might think that what I'm saying isn't quite right, but remember that I've been given God's bigger plan, and I'm working within his will, so if you think I'm a little off sometimes, just remember that..."

OMG basically... I just had to share that...


 

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Posted by tomb (# 174) on :
 
Phase 42,

Your comments about the Foursquare church reminded me of a friend in college who was raised in the Foursquare Gospel church in Los Angeles. She attended the Angelus Temple regularly.

One day, as she told the story, she lost her mind in the middle of the service, stood up, shouted "Lies! All lies!" and ran screaming out of the Sanctuary. She claims to have stolen the portrait of Aimee Sempel Macpherson as she bolted through the vestibule and kept it in her attic.

We begged her many times to bring the portrait back to school with her, but she never did. I have no idea if this story is true or the imagination of a fevered pentecostal brain, but I would give money to have been in the congregation that morning.
 

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Posted by Abu Wuza (# 614) on :
 
my F¤%& moments:

1. Years ago, in my Vangie days, I went (God knows why)to the local Methodist church where they had a healing service. They had a visiting miracle man of a preacher--all the way from India. This was pre-Toronto Blessing so the style was traditional "watch me fall". To the preacher's credit, he really did try to push me, but however hard he tried, I wouldn't fall. He interpreted this as further proof that there was indeed something in me that had to "come out in Jesus' name". I'm glad to say that even with my then gullible disposition I had the brain to run the hell out of the place.

2. No separate incident but a class or category: any time a pastor or preacher tells that life with Christ is freedom as opposed religion, which is the enslaving, diabolic replica of true faith. Evidence invariably includes supposed etymology of the word "religion" (basing semantics on etymology is bad in itself, and basing crap semantics on doubtful etymology is an abomination). Just as invariably this revelation (which everybody in the congregation has heard approximately 465 times) is presented as Most Likely Winner of the Biggest Surprise of the Millennium Award.



So there.

pax,
AW
 

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Posted by Zeke (# 3271) on :
 
My sister once surprised me by becoming very offended by my casual use of the word "religion." I had to remind myself of my fundie upbringing, in which "religion" was almost a dirty word, and often explained to us as a description of other things, but never Christianity.
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
Sigh. Zeke, I've had conversations like that too, with fundie friends. I try to avoid the word "religion" but sometimes it just slips out. By what definition is Christianity not a religion? How can you talk with someone when you're not actually using the same language? £$%^ indeed!
 

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Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Phase42:
So those things, combined with the fact that this church service follows immediately after my first church and leaves me unable to fellowship with my home congregation, has prompted me to simply leave that second church.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeke:
My sister once surprised me by becoming very offended by my casual use of the word "religion." I had to remind myself of my fundie upbringing, in which "religion" was almost a dirty word, and often explained to us as a description of other things, but never Christianity.

---

quote:

---

Your comments about the Foursquare church

---

quote:

---

To fellowship?????

F&*%"(&"£()^&

---

I know, it's right up there with "gifting". I don't like it either, but I'm an American and so it's somewhat expected of me.

Other fun Christian things to when I'm fellowshipping:

Enter in! (...as opposed to "entering out"?)

Gather together! (Is there any other way?)

Shout, with a loud voice! (I'm more of a "shout quietly" type, truth be told.)
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
Anyone else come across "Farewell" being used as a verb as in, "We farewelled Tom and Janet who were moving to a new town"? I've only discovered it recently, and it makes me
 

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Posted by Nunc Dimittis (# 848) on :
 
There was rather a large F@#$#%$%%^ moment in church this morning.

The preacher was a retired area bishop, an evangelical through and through.

His sermon was on Acts, about how after Peter's speech 3000 converted and the church was meeting every day etc etc...

Three things, he said:

1) They met together with JOY to worship God
2) They fellowshipped together. Oh yes, and fellowshipping is only qualified as such if it involves the "careful study of the Word of God". Everything was about the Word of God (the written word of God, the bible) in this section.
3) New people converted every day. We have to witness. We have to bring people to church. We have to preach at every opportunity.

He asked us if our parish was like that (with the clear implication that it was not).

Many of us found it extremely offensive: as an Evangelical he was making the assertion that our ways of doing the above were somehow "wrong"... And he obviously hadn't done his homework, but just assumed alot about how the parish works. Typical Evangelical way of thinking (anyone catholic obviously only pays lip service to God, it isn't a heart religion for them etc etc etc)

This ignores the fact that:

1) We have a daily prayer time every lunch time, as well as a daily eucharist, and a special more intimate healing service on Thursdays.
2) We love to come to be together, we love being in church, we love the music, the overall experience of word and sacrament that draws us closer to God.
3) We often have many visitors, and the church is actively engaged in the community.

Several choristers (including me) were very upset by this, and ended up walking out (after the sermon was over). I imagine there is going to be quite something said about it tomorrow night at Parish Council...
 

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Posted by madferret (# 3353) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by pvawiggin:
Further identifying feature... is about 50lbs overweight but still thinks she looks good in very tight miniskirts.

---

I really wish you hadn't posted that...

[I really wish you'd previewed post, but we don't all get what we want.]

[ 16. February 2003, 23:55: Message edited by: sarkycow ]
 

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Posted by madferret (# 3353) on :
 
Today's morning service. Almost all of it.

First our worship leader, recently back from a (4-star) holiday in Gambia, put out an appeal for donations to buy equipment for "ladies in Africa" to make rugs and the like. Not specific people in a specific place: No, the whole continent it seems! Sexist and racist in the same sentence

Then our visiting preacher decided we would like a lo-o-o-ng bible reading, using the King James' Version. Not NIV, so we could follow in our pew bibles. Now, certain passages sound good in AV, but trying to concentrate for six or seven minutes on spoken text is not easy.
 

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Posted by Paul W (# 1450) on :
 
Not too bad this morning, from chapter 1 of Romans. The preacher had to skip the homosexuality part that he would have talked about at length, as he was running out of time. And we only had about half a dozen mentions of the Evils of Evolution.

Oh, and apparently, the Guardian is the least Christian of all newspapers. Presumably the Daily Star is wholesome spiritual reading. Also Radio 4 is the least Christian of all radio stations, so I'm told.

Paul
 

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Posted by pvawiggin (# 4059) on :
 
My pastor has 3 favorite sayings. And yes, I keep track to see what will be the phrase of the week. So far #3 has won 5 weeks in a row.

1. "I don't know about you"
2. "By the way"
3. "I'll be honest with you"

This week the counts were:
1. five
2. eight
3. nine

It's gotten to be VERY annoying.
 

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Posted by Campbell Ritchie (# 730) on :
 
Nunc, if you want to be told off for, "not witnessing," you need to meet a British CU travelling secretary; my Missus says they don't walk, only bounce. Half an hour from them and everybody feels guilty about not shoving the Bible down everybody's throat on the street. . . except the one person who can actually do that and not feel a total wally about it.

About 3 years ago we had a visit at St Barney's from a chap called John Young, who was the Diocesan Advisor on Evangelism, and pointed out that only about 6% of Christians [the figures may vary in Oz] were "evangelists," the rest being, "witnesses," and that it was a good thing that he was an Advisor in Evangelism and not an "evangelist," that he could understand the 94% of Christians to whom it doesn't come naturally.
So now I know I could legitimately go to these CU Travelling secretaries. . .

Unfortunately, he also said that most Advisors in Evangelism are "evangelists," so if you want to be told off for, "not witnessing," you only need to meet a British Advisor in Evangelism. . .


CR
 

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Posted by Gabe (# 540) on :
 
This didn't happen in a church, but in a chapel service I attended (under academic duress) back in college. The guest speaker was a retired Marine general. He was apparently supposed to talk about what God had done in his life, but mainly he regaled the usually bored crowd with Vietnam war stories. However, he disgusted me several times, most notably:

A young Asian man at the front of the auditorium had fallen asleep. This fact, along with the guy's race, seemed to upset the general. He pointed the sleeping man out and said, pretending to joke, "Somebody wake him up. No, don't bother. He wouldn't know what I'm saying anyway, he's Chinese." There was a mixture of gasping and laughter. I fought the urge to leave (as I said, chapel attendence was mandatory). Later, closer to the end of his speech, the general shouted something and said "Look, that even woke Chinee up!" He said "Chinee." Yes.

Still, he got a standing ovation because of his tales about brave young men throwing themselves on grenades to save their comrades. All in all, he made Vietnam sound like a John Wayne movie.

I considered writing a letter to the school newspaper, but the school newspaper does not print dissenting opinions (you think that's an excuse, but it's the truth. You can't even say anything bad about the theater deptartment's new play).
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by madferret:

Then our visiting preacher decided we would like a lo-o-o-ng bible reading, using the King James' Version. Not NIV, so we could follow in our pew bibles. Now, certain passages sound good in AV, but trying to concentrate for six or seven minutes on spoken text is not easy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by madferret:
Then our visiting preacher decided we would like a lo-o-o-ng bible reading, using the King James' Version. Not NIV, so we could follow in our pew bibles. Now, certain passages sound good in AV, but trying to concentrate for six or seven minutes on spoken text is not easy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
Opposite feeling here - I feel like saying "S*(&d OFF" when people shove a bible in my hand when I'm listening to the reading.

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quote:

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Originally posted by madferret:
My objection in that post was to the way the wishes of those that did want to follow the reading in pew bibles was largely ignored; and that no acknowlegement was given to the reading being from a different version.

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Ah. Nuff said. I guess I should now repent for not considering the potential wishes of others with different preferences. Mea culpa.
 

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Posted by Clíona (# 2035) on :
 
/tangent still/
Last year through studying about learning I found out that I personally learn a lot better from listening to lectures rather than through reading, which I found very interesting as I love to read.
I have since stopped reading from the Bible/leaflet during church, (unless the reader has a monotonous tone) and find I concentrate and retain much more than I used to.
Of course, for other people it's the exact opposite.
So, Madferret, I agree with the reason for your f*%^@ moment. It certainly shouldn't happen if everyone is supposed to learn from the readings! In fact, one could argue that doing something like that is neglecting half the flock and not sharing the message with them, thus going against the teachings of the Gospels!

/tangent over. Sorry, it's been a boring day./
 

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Posted by Regina Shoe (# 4076) on :
 
I had almost forgotten (blocked out?) one of my most amazing f&*#$! moments.

A little background: my husband's grandfather has pastored a church in a small Iowa town for the past 60 years or so. In 1991, since I had never met my husband's grandparents before, we took some vacation days and flew halfway across the country to visit them.

So of course, we have to go to this guy's church service, along with the regular crowd of about 8 people. The title of the sermon is "Walkie-talkie Christians." I get a bad feeling as soon as I see this in the bulletin. Then, to open his sermon, he started talking about how Chinese people would say things like "No pay-ee, no shirt-ee." I kid you not. So then he worked up to his grand conclusion that Christians should not just talk the talk-ee, but walk the walk-ee, and therefore we should be "walkie-talkie Christians". He went on to make exactly the same point over and over again in (mercifully) slightly different words. Then finally, as his wife started in on the piano with the closing hymn, he had all of us stand up and march in place while he was doing the same and making his final exhortations to be - all together now - "walkie-talkie Christians".

Yeah, I think my subconscious was suppressing that memory to protect my sanity...
 

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Posted by motojerry (# 4147) on :
 
I have used the f word, not in a church service but during a short term mission. A few of the locals were pestering me for a financial contribution and I told them loudly to f off. For practical purposes it worked very well as they left me alone - though I wish I could go back in time and respond in a more mature manner. The incident made some of the other Norte Americanos unhappy with me (actually made most of them like me more). But live and learn I guess.

I still have a quick temper. Must be my early career in construction work. Swearing is a great way to let out frustration.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Hey, can I add a Pastor's Wife moment?

Not during the service, but in relation to one. When I was in my eary twenties, during a youth service, I actually preached a sermon from the pulpit. It was on Mary and Martha, and its premise was (in a nutshell) we all have personality traits that will be strengths in one situation and weaknesses in another. It was a big moment for me, as i am pretty shy and Missouri Synod Lutherans don't usually dig girls in the pulpit, etc. Most of the feedback was great. The next week I found a little note from the P.W. in my church mailbox. The P.W. had written something that briefly prased my efforts, but what jumped out at me was the line "...and what I want to ask you is WHY AREN'T YOU WRITING!?" Caps and everything.She went on a little bit to chide me for hiding my light under a bushel, etc.I ahd worked very hard on my sermonette,and was quite crushed by this response.
I was young and very much wowed by authority, so I simply accepted the rebuke and did not repond to her note. If she had the misfortune to hand something like that to me now, I would have answered, "How in the Holy Hell do you think it encourages me to reprimand me for NOT doing something I just freaking DID?!"

More on her husband: I also took a stab at Lay-reading. Each time I got up to read, the Pastor would call out criticisms of my reading style to the snickers of the congregation. The more he did it, the more nervous and weak my voice became and the more he had to criticize. (let me add that I had been having counseling sessions with this man; he was well aware of my shyness and self-esteem issues.)One day I was reading the description of Pentecost from Acts and he kept calling (pretty loudly!) "Slooower...Looouuder.." while the congregation snickered. Finally after the third or fourth "Looouuuder.." I paused and said tersely into the mike, "OKAY." That got a big laugh and my mom claimed there was scattered applause, but I was too furious to hear it. I don't think that man to this day is even capable of understanding the damage he caused.

I can't believe I put up with that crap for as long as I did.
 

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Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
Church, this morning. Aongst the good stuff was this one line:

Once you are walking with Jesus, everything else falls into place.*

F^$#

* This was the gist, not the exact words. My memory isn't that good unfortunately.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Welcome to Hell motojerry. Enjoy wandering these godforsaken depths, along with the other wretched mortals who have ended up here. Please note that learning both the Ship's 10 Commandments, and the Hell guidelines may buy you a day pass to go and post on the other boards

Viki, hellhost
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
This is a combination F&^%$ at church and F&^$# at ex moment:

Same minister as before. On my wedding day, my future sister-in-law threw in a couple last minute additions to the service including a poem reading and playing the violin with the other musicians conscripted to play with us. Admittedly the sentiments she expressed were those of a die-hard, new-agey hippie, but she had her heart in the right place.SHe is a very kind person and I welcomed her "blessing" on the service.

On the Sunday we got back from our honeymoon, we went to church--my ex was attending church at the time--and the sermon began with my pastor's most uncharitable remarks about my sister in law. Two of the phrases he used were "Spacey" and Hippy-dippy. From the pulpit. Waiting until John and I would be sure to be in the audience. The crux of the sermon was aren't we Lutheran Christians lucky to have a firmer foundation, etc.

On the way home John started tentatively questioning me about why his sister should be in the sermon . He said he was right about her being a hippy, but wondered why she should be part of a sermon. He showed a great deal of resistace to going to church the next Sunday, and to tell the truth, I wasn't all that hot to go either.
Eventually (via my mom, who was buddies with his wife) Pastor got wind that we were hurt by his comments. According to PW, he had seemed bewildered by why it would bother us, and PW'S response was "If you don't know what's wrong with that statement, you got a problem"
So Pastor scheduled a conference with us, He sat down in the frontroom and refused the coffe and cookies I offered him, and said he'd heard of our complaint. John let me do all the talking. I said something to the effect that i was fond of Sis-in-law and didn't appreciate his judging her so quickly, especially when it might be likely that family matters might bring her round the church again. He said he used parishioers in sermons all the time and no-one else complained (probably a bald-faced fabrication.) I said, well, that's the point; she's not a parisioner, and you don't know her.
He then turned to John and asked if he had been offended. And my new husband, who I'd been defending, and who had spent much time grumbling about the Pastor's comments,looked innocent and said, "No, I wasn't offended, I knew just what you meant."

Stunned silence from a betrayed Kelly.

So I was told I was being overprotective of John, horning in on his issue, oversensitive where others were not, that while Pastor was "sorry" that I was offended, he didn't think he said anything wrong, would say it all over again if he could, and in all probability would if the opportunity came up (And he did. Many times.)

F&%$# them both. Neither one of them deserved the incredible amount of loyalty I had to offer.
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
Last week I went to a "Taize Eucharist" in a local Anglican church. I was looking forward to this, as I enjoy Taize music, and wanted something quiet and reflective. The music was fine, but the liturgy was bizzare (nb. I don't think it came from Taize at all). For an opening prayer we had a four-fold invocation:

quote:

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We greet you, Spirit of the East,
You usher in the dawn of your breeze,
You stretch forth your fingers and paint our skies.

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quote:

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Loving God, the source of friendship
deepen our love.

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quote:

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God of the elements of the seasons,
we gave thanks for the seasons of ourselves

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quote:

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Dwell in us, with us.
Share your love with us.
Stay always - stay always.

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quote:

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We open our hearts to Christ's personal suffering and sacrifice

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Just in case I've failed to convince you that I hated it, I had three reasons for my unease:

* This all felt vaguely New Agey, rather than Christian. There are times when I would be quite happy with that - but I was looking for a Christian service.

* The words were not poetic, but twee and banal.

* In my day Anglican clergy had to promise to use only authorised forms of service. I know things are relaxed in all sorts of ways now, but is there anywhere in the Anglican world that would authorise such a pile of old nonsense?
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 
This wasn't in the middle of the service but nonetheless...

I was at an internment yesterday. The childless widow was an only child, both parents dead, who this week buried her husband after a long, hard battle with cancer.
The priest was sort of a Spencer Tracy type, straightforward man of the people, etc.
So the internment is over. Everyone is milling around. My friend the widow goes up to speak to the priest who has now buried her father, mother, and husband.
He takes her hand, looks into her eyes and says..."Well, Mary, you're all alone now."
Geez, Louise! Are we sensitive, or what!

[tangent]This same guy had virtually yelled the prayers at us during the internment. We were a small group, huddled together under the tent for warmth, while he stood on the other side of the coffin, not six feet away. Afterward I asked my friend "Does father have a large church?" She said "No. He just likes to be heard. He did the same thing at my mother's funeral."[/tangent]
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 
Let's make that "interment", although I do have a friend or two to whom "internment" would apply.
 

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Posted by Calypso (# 3692) on :
 
I can't count the times I've just wanted to stand up and scream "#*$% you!". That's why I don't go to church anymore .

I remember one time, the youth pastor wanted to pray for my brother because he kept asking difficult questions . He also really hated me, I'm not sure why.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Wasn't a Calypso fan ,then?



(I am so, so, terribly sorry...)
 

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Posted by Calypso (# 3692) on :
 
Har har .
 

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Posted by Icarus Coot (# 220) on :
 
Wanderer, I've come across that liturgy also, I have a feeling it is cultural pillaging of a traditional American Indian Christian liturgy - in fact, I seem to have a memory of someone in MW saying their father was a pastor on a reservation that used this form.

Wasn't comfortable with it 'cos it felt a bit animisty. That, and I just hate friggin' white middle class Anglicans seconding indigenous Oz/American Indian culture for their trendy aren't-we-so-broadminded-and- cutting-edge modern use.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Out of interest I looked this one up and found it was an amended and abridged version of an American Indian prayer to the Five Winds (they left out the Earth Wind and the bit about invoking the Great Mother). Fine in its right setting, but not in a church.

What surprised me during the online search for it was discovering it used in services elsewhere - adapted by an American nun as well - but suitably topped and tailed with a nice sort of prayer that didn't mention God, just invoked the "longtime light".

I have to say I agree with you, Coot. While I'm all in favour of learning from other traditions, if I was a churchgoer, I would find this a step too far. Some things are simply not compatible with Christianity and you can amend them as much as you want but by doing so, you compromise the spirit of either one or the other.
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
Thank you Coot and Ariel, it's good to have my gut feelings confirmed. Like you I think there is something rather false about wrenching items from one tradition and forcing them into another. The whole thing smacked more than a little of the naff, and I've since heard several members of the choir wanted to walk out but felt they couldn't.
 

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Posted by kittylou (# 4036) on :
 
My F-bomb moment came on Good Friday last year. Our church had a traditional service in the middle of the day, from noon to 3 p.m., very solemn and quiet. So far, so good. However, we weren't done yet. At 5 p.m. there was a service/program targeted toward children to help them understand the Stations of the Cross. The children (plus parents and anyone else who wanted to attend) went to different places in the church buildings to hear the Stations of the Cross in story form and to participate in some sort of tactile experience such as washing of the hands, pounding nails into a piece of wood, etc., so reinforce what they were hearing. The groups that came to my station were very reverent and the children really got into the story and seemed to understand the solemnity of the occasion.

The f*$#! moment came when we went back to the church itself for the closing part of the service. I expected a prayer, possibly a reminder about the next evening's Easter Vigil service, and a dismissal. Nope. Our Director of Christian Ed (who was in charge of the service) apparently decided that the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ was too "heavy" and sad for the kids, so we had 10 minutes of happy-clappy-shouty songs so that everybody could "feel good" before we left. I'm afraid it left me outraged instead.
 

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Posted by Magnum Mysterium (# 3418) on :
 
Had a f*** moment yesterday on the first Sunday in lent when the rector, despite my exhortations about proper custom, included the Alleluia before the Gospel. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

At least he omitted the Gloria.
 

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Posted by Gill B (# 112) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magnum Mysterium:

At least he omitted the Gloria.

---

Ours didn't. We will probably have it throughout Lent unless the clergy remember to omit it (however we have been known to accidentally omit it at other times than Lent), but on Easter Sunday we don't have it at the 10.30 service, which is the major one, because we have a truncated form of Common Worship Communion following an All-Age service. Because of the structure of Common Worship with the Gloria at the beginning (as opposed to BCP where it is at the end) it means that we miss it out on the day for which it is most appropriate.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Wanderer:
* The words were not poetic, but twee and banal.

---

This is mostly what I object to in "new, improved" language. It is not only not a theological improvement on the authorized or traditional versions; it is often hackneyed, twee, or Hallmark-card-y.

I recently talked a good friend out of "writing their own vows" as a way of giving a nod to both Jewish and Christian backgrounds. I'm not normally an interfer-er, but since I was consulted, I recommended using one or the other tradition's vows; I told her that if she wrote her own vows, 5% of the twee members of the congregation woould think it sweet; and everyone else would stifle giggles at the "I promise to affirm your individuality..." kinda stuff. And in what way is "I promise to respect your space and help you grow as a person," an improvement on the assorted variations of the timeless, "I n, take thee, n, to be my wedded wife/husband ... for better, for worse..." or "Be sanctified unto me as my wife/husband according to the traditions of Moses and Israel..."
 

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Posted by jugular (# 4174) on :
 
I include here an account of the worst baptism I have ever experienced.

The context : four female 8th grade (2nd form) students at the school I was teaching at, wanted to get confirmed, but had not been baptised, and so needed to get "done".

The Cast : Fr Arthur. Australians will be familiar with "Uncle Arthur", a comical character who is completely deaf and quite mad. They are practically one and the same person.

The "Service": The four kids (one of whom was buddhist and had never been to church before!) turned up and Father turned up about 15 minutes late. Each of the girls were dressed in the best outfits. For "best" read "sluttiest" i.e, midrifs, gaudy jewellery, knee high boots. Father Arthur had decided that, for the first time in his life, he would use the new prayer book service, seeing as how they were young people and all. Unfortunately he had only made four copies of the liturgy, for the 15 or so people there.

Oh, did I mention he forgot his glasses?

So he races through the prayers at breakneck speed, not stopping to breath, then launches into 20 minutes of weak, wandering stories from his weak, wandering life to illustrate his main point which was.... um... well something.

He then summoned the girls to the front and proceeded to manhandle them into place, leering at their scanty clothing. He says, "So, who wants to go first?". They all, embarassed, look away. "how about you", he says, "what's your name?". May I, at this point, emphasise that Father Arthur had been preparing the class for baptism for SIX WEEKS. So one of the girls says her name, he throws water over her and mumbles the right words. Of course, she's standing up, so water runs down onto her skimpy white top so, hello!, we've got a wet t-shirt competition happening!

The part, though, that really made me say F*#k, was when he said, at the end, "There you go, girls, now that's over with!". It was a truly spiritual moment.
 

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Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
The Rev. Geralds' influence stretches far and wide...
 

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Posted by jugular (# 4174) on :
 
It would be funny if it weren't true. This description actually leaves out my muttered "Oh F*^% throughout the whole thing.
 

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Posted by Sooty Puss (# 4155) on :
 
. . . wet t-shirt competition

Now that sounds like progress
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I think that one wins my "Best of Thread" pick.
 

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Posted by plato (# 4034) on :
 
hmm...? listening to the most boring bastard going, (filling in for holidaying vicar).. He was at least 150 yrs old, and telling us how we need never suffer pain or illness ever. we just needed to say the sinners prayer and we would all be healed instantly, if you were'nt, then you had no faith. took an ex-biker with me that morn. he suffers from migraines and ms.
old fart comes over afterwards and tries to talk. I'm desperate to get him away from said biker, because I know the way he thinks. old fart starts to berate him over his lack of faith. arm extends, fist connects and preacher folds up in the middle, biker says in a loud voice, well? i can't hear the fucking prayer! where's the bloody miracle then?

for some reason he gave up preaching, strange that?
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Welcome plato to both Hell and the Ship in general. Please check the guidelines for each board before posting on them - saves unintentional roastings

Apart from that, all I can say is that biker mate's response sounds like a good one

Viki, hellhost
 

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Posted by Magnum Mysterium (# 3418) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magnum Mysterium:
Had a f*** moment yesterday on the first Sunday in lent when the rector, despite my exhortations about proper custom, included the Alleluia before the Gospel. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

At least he omitted the Gloria.

---

And on Lent II they put the Alleluia in again, despite more pleas for us to do it properly.

So I left.

I probably shouldn't have, as I suppose it was a sign of defeat. But I shall keep up the fight.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
What DO they train 'em at Theological College these days? How to plug in the Alpha video, I suppose ......
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Ok, yesterday is Easter sunday. I come to church with my family. Sis has been fighting with her boyfriend for two days and is in tears, nephew has a sigularly unconvincing brave-little-soldier smile on his face, mom is freaked out because a checkbook mishap has left her 2000 in the red, and I am having a couple of days of seriously missing my ex-in-laws. In other words, a typical fucking Alves family gathering.

Th sermon is about ressurection, and while the minister isn't really saying anything new, I am trying to follow and get into the spirit of things. At one point he says," but I want to warn you because it sounds like I'm saying thatbecause Jesus is risen, everything will be all right. This is not true."
I sigh with relief. Good, I think, He will take time to acknowledge the brokenhearted.

"...it is not true," he continues'because some people graduate,and some don't."

Huh?

"Some people embrace the Resurrection, and some don't.Some people claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and some push him away. Some accept the blessings of Jesus Christ, and some reject them. Therefore some experience resurrection, and some remain in their sin."

I have never wished so fervently that Erin Etheridge attended my church. My now decidedly ex-churc. Refer to "calling God to Hell" for a detailed description of my opinon of people who imply that the abscence or prescence of 'blessing' in a person's life indicates the quality of their relationship with God.

Happy freaking Easter, you name-it-and-claim-it potzer.By the way, what did my nephew (who sings "Jesus loves me" all day) do to push God away? I'd be happy to tell him that his folks will stop fighting if he just stops rejecting the Resurrection. Up yours, you ecclesiastical infant.

 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Ok, yesterday is Easter sunday. I come to church with my family. Sis has been fighting with her boyfriend for two days and is in tears, nephew has a sigularly unconvincing brave-little-soldier smile on his face, mom is freaked out because a checkbook mishap has left her 2000 in the red, and I am having a couple of days of seriously missing my ex-in-laws. In other words, a typical fucking Alves family gathering.

Th sermon is about ressurection, and while the minister isn't really saying anything new, I am trying to follow and get into the spirit of things. At one point he says," but I want to warn you because it sounds like I'm saying thatbecause Jesus is risen, everything will be all right. This is not true."
I sigh with relief. Good, I think, He will take time to acknowledge the brokenhearted.

"...it is not true," he continues'because some people graduate,and some don't."

Huh?

"Some people embrace the Resurrection, and some don't.Some people claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior, and some push him away. Some accept the blessings of Jesus Christ, and some reject them. Therefore some experience resurrection, and some remain in their sin."

I have never wished so fervently that Erin Etheridge attended my church. My now decidedly ex-churc. Refer to "calling God to Hell" for a detailed description of my opinon of people who imply that the abscence or prescence of 'blessing' in a person's life indicates the quality of their relationship with God.

Happy freaking Easter, you name-it-and-claim-it potzer.By the way, what did my nephew (who sings "Jesus loves me" all day) do to push God away? I'd be happy to tell him that his folks will stop fighting if he just stops rejecting the Resurrection. Up yours, you ecclesiastical infant.

 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
(Please ignore duplicate post. Flood control issues. I thought I had stopped the post.I suck. I have not fully embraced the ressurection, and my fruits are revealing me. mea cupla, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Flog, flog, flog.)
 

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Posted by Wally (# 3245) on :
 
Kelly, you need to start carrying an air horn to church.
 

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Posted by Rowen (# 1194) on :
 
It was a large and modern church, easily seating 700 hundred. At night however, the 50 or so sat down the front, and we turned the back lights mostly off, after the start of the service. It was more cosy that way. However the street lights shone thru the windows, and the minister at least could see right thru the building to the night outside. It was my first year of ministry, and that night I took the service, whilst the senior minister sat with his family down the front.

The organist was a dear woman- so committed to the task that she came with the reasonably newish babe- but that night she looked a little tired. So after the readings she took said babe down to the Cry Room, a large glassed-off area at the back of church, with a good sound system (she could hear me but not vice-a-versa.) Some curtains gave her an element of privacy- but, this night at least not enough. The outside lights shone gently into the Cry Room, as I could see from the pulpit. The congregation, of course, faced the wrong way to see in there.

She spent a lont time in there, and I wondered if she had fallen asleep. Her husband obviously wondered that too- so he quietly tiptoes down there to check. Unaware that I could see it all.... he went into the Room, and walked over to her- to give her a hug- or so I thought. But lo! He was carried away, and the hug was not enough. They proceeded then to "know each other" in the biblical sense- gently, quietly, but thoroughly. I was somewhat flummoxed.

Should I have spoken into the mic system, thus alerting them that I could see into the Room- and letting the whole congregation know what was happening? Well, unsure of the correct procedure, I decided to continue the sermon. I figured that maybe they had turned the sound system off. The senior minister knew something had stunned me andtaken my attention away from the body of my sermon, but obviously he was unsure as to what exactly...

As my sermon stumblingly drew to an end, the couple reappeared- in time for the next hymn. Her clothes looked a bit rumpled- but those around her smiled benignly at them- no doubt pleased she had gone off to care for the baby, and that her husband had slipped out to help. Oh yes, he had helped all right.

And ever after that, whenever I looked at them....
 

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Posted by Second Mouse (# 2793) on :
 
((Kelly)) - That's so rubbish.

Your post reminded me of a home group I once went to, discussing healing and faith and related issues. One guy was holding forth that healing could still happen today, (which I don't have a problem with), and that if only we prayed with enough faith, then it would happen.

This was only a few months after my dad had died, and I was still very fragile. He knew this, and was a caring sort of chap, but I think he just wasn't thinking through the implications of what he was spouting. I asked him if that meant it was my fault my dad had died, because I hadn't had enough faith when I'd prayed, and he got all embarrassed and started changing what he was saying.

Rowan -

Claire
 

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Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
Rowen, that is hilarious! I wonder if you found out that evening the reason they like church so much.

Kelly, I'm with you on that name-it-and-claim-it garbage. Faith does make a difference. And "God is a rewarder of those who seek Him." But prosperity theology and it's influence is poison.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Wally----

Rowen--I'd rather go to your church.
 

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Posted by David (# 3) on :
 
On Sunday my 5-yr old another were amusing themselves during church by casting spell at each other - you know, "Wingardium Leviosa" and the type. Nothing too dangerous or demonic. A woman sitting behind them stood up and suggested that we pray as a church regarding the influence that TV and movies have on children these days.

Had I been there at that point, she would have got an Easter punch in the head.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by David:
Had I been there at that point, she would have got an Easter punch in the head.

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Is that the type of punch that lifts them off their feet? Or am I thinking of an Ascension punch?


 

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Posted by Warrior Tortoise (# 2682) on :
 
Originally quoted by Magnum Mysterium

quote:

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Had a f*** moment yesterday on the first Sunday in lent when the rector, despite my exhortations about proper custom, included the Alleluia before the Gospel. AAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!

At least he omitted the Gloria.

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Can someone explain why this is such a dreadful thing to do?

I'm a Methodist....
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Mr. Tortoise? In liturgical churches, it is traditional to withhold the "alleluiah" during Lent, out of deference to the somber nature of the season.

Now back to our scheduled bitch session
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rowen:
It was a large and modern church.....

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Rowen, you have been a minister for a few years now. Why is this the first time that I have heard this tale? I ask because this thread has been around for quite a while, and your tale is obviously about 'fucking in the middle of the service'.

Are you being truthful? Or have you constructed a rather lush urban myth for us?

bb
 

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Posted by PeachyKeenJellybean (# 4077) on :
 
Rowen:

That was indeed a f*$#! in the middle of the service!



PKJb
 

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Posted by Wally (# 3245) on :
 
Rowen, is there a branch of your church in the U.S.?
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
No kidding, Wally.

Babybear--oh ye of little faith!
 

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Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
Rowen - did you discover whether the coupling couple had enjoyed the sermon?
 

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Posted by Wally (# 3245) on :
 

quote:

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No kidding, Wally.

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I never used to look in Hell either. Turns out this is where all the "action" is.
 

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Posted by Warrior Tortoise (# 2682) on :
 
I'm a Ms Tortoise, but that's OK.

I asked about the Alleluia thing cos it's seems remarkably petty (IMHO).

What makes me say fuck is the abomination of how the Karen people of Myanmar are being treated by the military, how oppressed Christians are in China, the political situation in North Korea, those who are victims of domestic violence etc etc

Not whether (God forbid) someone got a piece of liturgy wrong and upset custom.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Obviously Magnum hasn't graduated, and needs to embrace the resurrection properly so as not to be bothered by such petty things. Go flog yourself, Magnum!

NOW! I MEAN IT!

oh, and I shall flog myself, too, for the gender cock-up. Actually deserve one on that issue for someone else. So many reasons to flog one's self. Sigh. I could get to like this. Any advice, Chastmastr?

Seriously though? There are plenty of dead serious thread on these boards, both in Hell and Purgatory. On this thread we give ourselves permission to be a little petty.Helps release the steam, you know what I mean?
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Warrior Tortoise:
Not whether (God forbid) someone got a piece of liturgy wrong and upset custom.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Warrior Tortoise:


What makes me say fuck is the abomination of how the Karen people of Myanmar are being treated by the military, how oppressed Christians are in China, the political situation in North Korea, those who are victims of domestic violence etc etc

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