Thread: Kerygmania: The Sixth Day (Gen 1:26-31) Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
(OK, I admit it - I'm starting this thread here rather than Purgatory because I don't want to have to host another Creationism linked thread. So sue me . Besides, it's linked to a sort of tangent on the NIV translation thread)

Here's the more revelant parts of the text (sorry, from the NIV)

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Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

... And it was so.
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day.

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Followed, of course, by the seventh day where God takes of his work gloves, puts his feet up, pours himself a cup of tea and takes a well deserved rest.

My hypothesis is that we're still in the 6th day. That human evolution, and especially the Christ event, are all part of the process whereby God is creating human beings in his image. When Christ comes again to claim his own there will not be a new Heaven and Earth, so much as a completion of the creation of this Heaven and Earth - finally everything that was previously just "good" will finally be "very good" and God and his creation (including humanity finally in his image) will be able to rest.

Comments? Is this barking? When I mentioned this in passing in a Purgatory thread a while back Fr Gregory linked to some early fathers expressing similar ideas - anyone remember or know what they said?

Alan

[Typo corrected by Moo}

[ 19. June 2003, 18:12: Message edited by: Erin ]
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
I rather think Augustine thought we were still in the 6th day - and in the 7th as well.
 

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Posted by silverfran (# 3549) on :
 
OOh I like this idea. It is deep. Seven is the Jewish number symbolising totality and perfection so it would be an excellent way of expressing the progression of the world's continuing growth towards the return of Christ.

Might it not also contribute towards the problem of evil discussion? (Does this count as a tangent?)

I was just thinking that if the world is still in the process of being completed then it would account for apparent "flaws" in the world.
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Alan, what a mind-boggling idea. I am obviously not a great scientist or biblical scholar,(and possibly that's no bad thing ) but you have given me real food for thought with this one as it really seems to strike a chord on first reading your ideas.

Not having a fundamentalist outlook on the Creation story personally, I have always viewed it as amazing how this ties in with scientific findings as long as the timescale is taken from the basis of eternity rather than a limited human-style week. The idea of being in the sixth day would certainly fit in with that.

Hmmm..... I shall ponder some more.
 

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Posted by Sean D (# 2271) on :
 
I often wonder if in several places the writer of the story is deliberately being playful and open-ended. For example, several times he is blatantly taking the mick out of the Babylonian creation epic, e.g. where the sun and moon were worshipped as gods (here they are made by God), and various other things which frankly I forget.

So, my response to your question Alan is "...sure, why not?!" on the basis that I don't think the writer intended to leave us with a definite and simple sense of what the text means but rather offer us a lens through which we can view our own situation (or rather, through which early post-exilic Israel could view their situ but you get my point). Hence, you are using it as a lense in a certain way. Others may view it slightly differently. I think the writer would say, "Oh good, at least they're thinking about it!"
 

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Posted by Sean D (# 2271) on :
 
Ahem. "Lens", even. Comedy definitions of what a "lense" could be on a postcard to my PM box.
 

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Posted by Freddy (# 365) on :
 
Agreeing with all that has been said.

I would add that I am quite sure that the days repeat themselves endlessly and spiritually in the lives of all of us. They are a metaphor for every sort of creation imaginable - whether it is the creation of being born again, or the creation of bringing peace to this planet.
 

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Posted by Amanuensis (# 1555) on :
 
Fascinating idea.

A couple of "buts" from the New testament. 1) the idea of God's "rest" in Hebrews seems to imply that we are still in the seventh day. I know someone already said that we are in both, but does that make sense?
2) You said that there won't be a "new" heaven and earth. I don't know how this squares with the end of Revelation, which seems to be written with the beginning of Genesis in mind.

I like the idea though. I think that God's creative activity is definitely at work in human history. Genesis itself bears this out; Adam's descendants start building cities.

[code fixed by Moo]

[ 07. March 2003, 00:23: Message edited by: Moo ]
 

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Posted by Freddy (# 365) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amanuensis:
You said that there won't be a "new" heaven and earth. I don't know how this squares with the end of Revelation, which seems to be written with the beginning of Genesis in mind.

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The end of Revelation seems to me to describe the seventh day.
 

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Posted by SteveTom (# 23) on :
 
My own pet theory is that both the 6th and 7th days come round once a week.
 

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Posted by golden key (# 1468) on :
 
I've heard a Jewish theory that we're still in the 6th day. Maybe from Rabbi Harold Kushner? (Author--"When bad things happen to good people") And that, now that *we're* around, we're supposed to help.

Which means things are still messy. Which sounds a lot like God's Final Message from the Hitchhiker's Guide books--"We apologize for the inconvenience"!

 

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Posted by Father Brown (# 4201) on :
 
Originally Posted by Sean D

"For example, several times he is blatantly taking the mick out of the Babylonian creation epic, e.g. where the sun and moon were worshipped as gods (here they are made by God), and various other things which frankly I forget".

That would be the Atrakhasis, Epic, the Sumerian Creation Epic, The Sumerian poem " Enki and Ninmakh" and several other ancient near easten myths including an incomplete one written by a monk of the God Set. Incidentally, Set is used as a name for the Devil in some ancient documents. However, the main point is good. The Redactor/s of Gen 1-11 were, essentially, ripping the piss out of contempoary myth by attempting to show that they're God (Yahweh/Elohim) was superior to the gods worshipped by others at that time.

Alan, the idea that the world is still being created remeinds me a bit of Process Theology (see Alfred North Whitehead, David Ray Griffin and, to an extent, Teilhard De Chardin). I find those people interesting although I think they have a weak view of sin. Is process thought what you were referring to? Yes, there have definately been people who have proposed the six day thing already.

Cheers

Father Brown
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Helpful thoughts, thank you all who've replied. A few things to catch up on, sorry I probably should have commented on them earlier.

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Originally posted by Amanuensis:
1) the idea of God's "rest" in Hebrews seems to imply that we are still in the seventh day.

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quote:

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I know someone already said that we are in both, but does that make sense?

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quote:

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You said that there won't be a "new" heaven and earth. I don't know how this squares with the end of Revelation, which seems to be written with the beginning of Genesis in mind.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Father Brown:
Alan, the idea that the world is still being created remeinds me a bit of Process Theology (see Alfred North Whitehead, David Ray Griffin and, to an extent, Teilhard De Chardin). I find those people interesting although I think they have a weak view of sin. Is process thought what you were referring to? Yes, there have definately been people who have proposed the six day thing already.

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