Thread: Heaven: I am a Nazi. Apparently. Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
The boys are sitting at the table refusing to eat spinach. It's been a half an hour since D and I got up from the table. It is a small quantity, a "no thank you" helping. I finally snapped and set the timer for 5 minutes. If they don't finish, they're going right to bed.

p.s. Now the eldest says he has to go to the bathroom. Like I'm falling for that one.

[ 22. February 2005, 16:46: Message edited by: KenWritez ]
 

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Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
Sometimes a mother's gotta do what a mother's gotta do.

I feel your pain. (And I've felt that wrath myself ....oh, not more than an hour or so ago.) Hang in there.

Rossweisse // no surrender!
 

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Posted by Sienna (# 5574) on :
 
It gets better, you know. I have moved on from "dinner table Nazi" and have now reached the exalted heights of "completely ruining whatever hope might have existed for a normal life."

In the immortal words of my father "You will never have to pay a therapist hundreds of dollars an hour to explain why I'm being mean to you. I'm being mean to you because you're being flipping unreasonable, and if you don't cut it out, everyone else will be mean to you, too."
 

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Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 3251) on :
 
Who's gonna crack first?

When I was 8 and he was 6, my mother used to cook my brother bacon and fried bread for breakfast every morning. Every morning they had a silent battle of wills on whether he would eat it.

One day, a teacher came up to me at playtime and said "Your brother is holding a mouthful of chewed bacon in his mouth, like a little hamster." I replied "Yes, Miss, he hates bacon so much that he refuses to swallow it."

Be warned.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
I win! I win! They choked it down. I ignored the retching and puking noises and kept to my promise to add spinach every time there was a complaint. In the end, there was only one threat to run away.

I use the same explanation my mother used for us after cries of unfairness. She'd say, evenly: "I'm an ogre and it's just your bad luck you've got ogres for parents. When you're eighteen you may do as you wish (assuming you don't expect help with college) in which case you may do what you wish at 21.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
Never give up! Never surrender!
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
When did he swallow it?
 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
You go, Laura!

I remember hearing the SW say something akin to these words to her teenage daughter: "No, I am not your friend. It's not my job to be your friend, it's my job to be your mother. Ruining your life is merely one of the perqs*."

My 12 y.o. step-son already bemoans his status as "Above-Average Slave Child" and refuses to believe that our insistence he use good table manners, take out the trash and feed the pets are anything but further degradations in our cruel campaign of oppressing him.

My dad used to yank me out of sleep--literally--at 5:30 a.m. to force me to go jogging. Dad was real big on yessir/nosir authority, having grown up in a strict family during the Depression, so the AASC doesn't know how good he has it. I am tempted occasionally to disabuse him of his ignorance in a similar manner....

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*perqs = perquisites

[ 10. December 2004, 00:00: Message edited by: KenWritez ]
 

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Posted by Sienna (# 5574) on :
 
Woo hoo, Laura!!!!
 

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Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 3251) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
When did he swallow it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gort:
You made them eat spinach?? [shudder] Beyond cruel!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
When did he swallow it?

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Ah, but here we see the purity of his protest. I simply don't know...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Gort: you are aware that there are children starving in Africa?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Gort: you are aware that there are children starving in Africa?

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quote:

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Originally posted by RooK:

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Gort: you are aware that there are children starving in Africa?

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But they taste terrible, and will give you kuru.

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Only if you eat their brains.
 

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Posted by Gort (# 6855) on :
 
I was subjected to a variation of the "starving africans" routine when forced to eat spinach as a child..." Don't you know there are starving children in Afghanistan??" Horrible, limp, cold and bitter...I would gladly have used my allowance to ship the awful stuff overseas.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
My spinach is not limp and bitter.
 

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Posted by David (# 3) on :
 
Did you stoop to the

quote:

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When I was a child I had to eat spinach 12 times a day and if I vomited it back up I was forced to ingest broken glass

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quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
My spinach is not limp and bitter.

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quote:

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Originally posted by David:
Did you stoop to the

quote:

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When I was a child I had to eat spinach 12 times a day and if I vomited it back up I was forced to ingest broken glass

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routine?

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No, but I told them of how I was forced to weekly eat shudder oyster stew. Cream soup broth with snot-slime sea creatures. There was suitable horror expressed at my mother's cruelty.
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
But... but... but...

I would love a good oyster stew.

Or even an oyster-and-spinach stew...

And would have as a child. I just don't undertand...

I often serve either fresh baby spinach with all sorts of yummy salad stuff, or a gorgeous spinach casserole thing, with various cheeses and whipped eggs and perhaps nice crunchy bacon crumbs and maybe some buttery little mushrooms.

Everyone always loves spinach around here. Likely because they can't see it.

It's too smothered in wonderful stuff.

[ 10. December 2004, 01:39: Message edited by: Janine ]
 

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Posted by Benedictus (# 1215) on :
 
I also love oyster stew, and have for many years. Can I have it?

Also, Laura, you can't be a real Nazi. I have it on the best authority--obviously my kids--that I am the ONLY true Nazi mom in the universe. No other kids are as persecuted as they. They promise.
 

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Posted by Left at the Altar (# 5077) on :
 
Now that you've forced them to eat spinach, torture them with some mashed swede.

You will be elevated well above mere Nazi heights with an effort like that, and will witness gagging like you've not seen before.
 

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Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Never give up! Never surrender!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Benedictus:
Also, Laura, you can't be a real Nazi. I have it on the best authority--obviously my kids--that I am the ONLY true Nazi mom in the universe. No other kids are as persecuted as they. They promise.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
...torture them with some mashed swede.

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Can you DO that? Isn't it a violation of the Geneva Convention?

Besides, the Swedes aren't really all that obnoxious. I can think of better candidates, as groups, for mashing.

Rossweisse // nastier than you are, nyah-nyah-nyah!
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I loved spinach when I was a kid. My mother tells of feeding me Gerber baby food creamed spinach, and says that she was almost gagging as she spooned it into my mouth. I was lapping it up.

I liked liver too.

I didn't develop a taste for oysters until much later, however.

Timothy
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rossweisse:

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Never give up! Never surrender!

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By Grabthar's hammer, by the Sons of Worvan, you shall be avenged!

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I hoped someone would catch that.

Ha! Now you must take the Geek Test. Alas, I scored a 40.8 - Total Geek.

I was dumped at a dance, I attend academic lectures outside of school and I know the odd/even rule about Star Trek movies.
 

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Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
Alas, I am only a Major Geek.

But I'm working on it.

Rossweisse // if only they had one for "can name all the Valkyries..."
 

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Posted by Gort (# 6855) on :
 
Alas! Not as geeky as I aspire..only 33.1
 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
Ah, me. 44.579% = Major Geek. I've always considered myself more of an honorary geek that a true Geek, but perhaps there's a little bit of real Geek inside me.

(And no, I'm not talking about the cannibalism thread! Sheesh, you people....)
 

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Posted by Kepler's Puppet (# 4011) on :
 
Oh my! 50.4931 = Super Geek (better start gaming to bring up the score)

And I am rather fond of spinach.
 

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Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rossweisse:
Alas, I am only a Major Geek.

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Total Geek.

Then again, I am a technical writer.

How many of you know who Jakob Nielsen is? Or care?

How many know what a MIF file is?

Wrote his first computer program in 11th Grade? Back in 1970. Using paper tape and a TTY on a dial-up to MacAuto.

Know what RPN is? And prefer it.
 

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Posted by Not Too Bad (# 8770) on :
 
Am I the only one in horror at the power games involved because of SPINACH? I'm afraid the victory will only be short lived and your children will wreak terrible and exact revenge on you because of it. And you will rue the day you ever started this battle because your children WILL win. It is inevitable.

I talk from experience...
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
Shall I just say that I got over 60%. And that was because the test had such huge sections on D&D, role play games and comics. Not all geeks are into that stuff. If it had tested me on computers then I would have scored quite a bit higher.

But anyway, that is beside the point. Laura, which did you force your children to eat spinach? Do they get to force you to eat food that you don't like?
 

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Posted by Weed (# 4402) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by babybear:
But anyway, that is beside the point. Laura, which did you force your children to eat spinach? Do they get to force you to eat food that you don't like?

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"Oxalic acid is this same oxalic acid that gives spinach its slightly bitter taste, which is prized by some while others find it off-putting, another issue with kids. The taste buds of the young haven’t fully matured, and processing even slightly bitter flavors can be a shocking and unforgettable experience." From this site.

Forcing your children to eat something that they cannot help finding deeply unpleasant doesn't, however, make you a Nazi, Laura, you'll be pleased to know. For further details on nazism and the frightening rise in neo-nazism today, see, for example, the Anti-Nazi League site.
 

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Posted by PhilA (# 8792) on :
 
I have a different problem with kids at meal times.

I have three daughters. Rebecca, age 7, Bethany age 6 and her twin sister Rochelle.

Rebecca will eat anything - except cheese. Bethany will eat anything - except mushrooms.
Rochelle will eat anything other than beans, chips, fish fingers, tomato ketchup, burgers and most other junk food.

Getting them to eat vegetables is all too easy - they ask for them!!!!!!!! I don't know what to do, I feel like a failure as a Father, I cannot get my kids to pig out on junk food.
 

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Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 
18% I'm either a geek failure : or a well-adjusted individual with a social life!
MrP
 

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Posted by cocktailgirl (# 8684) on :
 
Hurrah! Only 3% geek (maybe because I didn't understand most of the questions in the test).

Laura: my mum used to pay my sister to eat peas. Have you thought of going down that route?
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Less Geeky than you Mr Piccolo: 15.58%. That probably disqualifies me from using BB's and the rest. I'm sure it explains why I need help with my PC and couldn't assist chive to get the right version of java for her PC (Monday or Tuesday I think. Hope I'm off your deathlist chive )

re: Children and spinach. You can blame Papa Bush for that. He was and presumably still is famously anti-spinach and got into a scrape with the US Spinach Growers Association (or whatever it is called) for saying so.

I think his tirade went:
"I hated spinach when I was a boy and I was forced to eat it. I was told 'It's broccoli dear' but I knew it was spinach. Now I am president no one is going to tell me to eat it."

What Barabara thought about that I never found out.
 

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Posted by Light (# 4693) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rossweisse:

quote:

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Originally posted by Left at the Altar:
...torture them with some mashed swede.

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Can you DO that? Isn't it a violation of the Geneva Convention?

Besides, the Swedes aren't really all that obnoxious. I can think of better candidates, as groups, for mashing.

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Why, thank you Rossweisse!

No mashing today then.
 

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Posted by Padingtun Bear. (# 3935) on :
 
Gosh - 56%. That makes me an extreme geek, but probably only because of a highly introverted upbringing, literary parents and a masters in Physics. Plus, I married a geek, so that helps.

I can't be the only one that finds spinach just a little bitter? I remember with passion that day I promised myself that I'd never eat anything I didn't want to, ever again. I was 18, and had just left home! No spinach since then...

I still do resent my mum a bit telling me 'Well, life isn't fair sweetie' when I complained about being made to wash up/eat spinach/eat prawns/clean bathrooms* (*delete as applicable). It was true, but that didn't mean it had to be true in our house.
 

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Posted by Flausa (# 3466) on :
 
I only once remember refusing to eat something. It was a spaghetti dish of some sort, but the sauce had a smell and flavour that I just could not injest. My dad did the "you will sit here until you eat this" routine. He went from upset to angry to fuming, but I just couldn't do it. He finally threatened spanking, so I took a few bites and then . I was THEN spanked and brought out for family Bible study time. I have only smelled something similar to that dish once since then, and I immediately started gagging.

But my dad was the ultimate food Nazi. On several occasions he would force my sister and I to eat hot peppers without the aid of any "cooling" devices. If we cried, refused, or otherwise protested, we were spanked. I also used to love ketchup, so much so that I would eat it by itself. He once gave me a large spoonful of hot sauce and told me it was ketchup.

Anybody want his phone number? I'm sure he could explain the fine art of getting your children to eat anything, anytime, anywhere.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
We've mostly avoided food fights. Mostly. But there are other possibilities for parental fascism. Flashback:

The Amosling, aged three is playing in the bathtub. She pours a mug of water over the book I am trying to read. I hoick her out of the tub, wrap her in a towel, and head for her room. Furiously she squinches up her little face, sticks out her bottom lip and says: ' Mother, I am like Jesus suffering on the cross. And you, Mother, are like Adolf Hitler.'

Nowadays I'm known as the Collar Fetishist and Makeup Nazi. As in 'Please straighten your collar, or do you want me to do it? One of your pocket-flaps needs to be untucked.' 'Please go into the bathroom and take off half of that eyeliner. Neatly.'

Laura, yours aren't yet at the 'Have you eaten any breakfast?' stage yet, are they? And being boys, they may never be.
 

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Posted by Miffy (# 1438) on :
 
Gently fry finely chopped onions in a little oil and curry powder. Add spinach and fry ditto. Once it starts to go limp add a couple of beaten eggs and chick peas. Serve with cous-cous or rice. Works a treat on my lot and they're confirmed green veg haters.
 

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Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Less Geeky than you Mr Piccolo: 15.58%. That probably disqualifies me from using BB's and the rest. I'm sure it explains why I need help with my PC and couldn't assist chive to get the right version of java for her PC (Monday or Tuesday I think. Hope I'm off your deathlist chive )

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Sioni: I scored higher than you at 16.96252% (love the spurious accuracy) - but you're a computer techie, so how can you possibly score less than me??? If there hadn't been all the Star Trek stuff, I doubt I would have even reached Geek status - must be my advancing years
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rev per Minute:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Less Geeky than you Mr Piccolo: 15.58%. That probably disqualifies me from using BB's and the rest. I'm sure it explains why I need help with my PC and couldn't assist chive to get the right version of java for her PC (Monday or Tuesday I think. Hope I'm off your deathlist chive )

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Sioni: I scored higher than you at 16.96252% (love the spurious accuracy) - but you're a computer techie, so how can you possibly score less than me??? If there hadn't been all the Star Trek stuff, I doubt I would have even reached Geek status - must be my advancing years

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I work in IT but I'm on the Information side of things, not the Technology! QR and Testing are my specialities.

Your Star Trek stuff may well have taken you over the Geek threshold. The only one I could answer was the "Name 5 characters" and I got those from the bridge crew of the original series. I don't like SF and detest Hobbitism so I only scored a bare Geek through quizzes and trivia.
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
I was a spinach hater, but a Good Girl™ (believe it or not), so would struggle to get a few mouthfuls down. It didn't help that my mum grew her own, let it grow really, really old, and didn't wash it properly, so it was bitter AND gritty.

Fast forward to about 20 years later and I'm happily eating spinach and assorted other spinach-like leaves (I think one of them is rape, or possibly chard, and another is cassava leaves), but with onion and tomato. The (Tanzanian) cook on hearing how my mum used to cook spinach throws up her hands in horror and says "Well that's not too surprising! Everyone knows children don't like spinach cooked like that! It's horrible!"

I'll now eat it quite happily if it's cooked nicely, but still won't eat my mum's...
 

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Posted by dogwatch (# 5226) on :
 
"Spinach is very good for you. The University of Arkansas says so."

"So what? We don't live in Arkansas!"
 

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Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
I can't remember the last time I ate spinach. It sure wasn't by choice. Foul stuff.

Then again, I don't eat lettuce, cucumber, cauliflower, sprouts or cabbage either. About the only vegetables I eat on a regular basis are potatoes and carrots, though I'm partial to the odd parsnip or mashed swede (sorry Light ) occasionally.

As to the "dinner wars", my parents gave up very quickly. I guess it helped that my brother loved all that stuff, so he got more greens and I got more tatties and carrots
 

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Posted by leonato (# 5124) on :
 
Only 8% geek, I must be more normal than I thought.

Laura: have you force-fed the sprogs sprouts?
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
The great thing about being grown up: nobody makes you eat stuff you don't like.

Maybe slipping into merciful amnesia with age, but I don't remember any food wars - just my mother saying: 'No force, no flatter: don't eat it, doesn't matter'

The only drawback to being allowed food you liked was that for years afterwards the same mother would insist 'But you like X!' 'Yes, when I was 8. But now I'm 43: my horizons have expanded'.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
I don't have time to do the geek test, but I have been assured I am a geek.

After my daughter and son-in-law-to-be came to visit me, he said to her with delight, "I didn't know your mother was a geek."

I'm certified.

Moo
 

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Posted by Furry Gherkin (# 5641) on :
 
15%Geekism....Wow....

Used to hate mashed potato....Y'know the stuff, with little bits of umashed tatie....Until I discoverd....

Black Pepper...

Yep....Good ol' fashioned black pepper....

Just a few sprinkles of the good stuff can totally obliterate yer tastebuds, therefore alleviating the problem of not eating food....

Either that, or sell the little darlings on E-bay...


FG..
 

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Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Firenze's mother had it right.

Hmmm. Kid won't eat spinach.

Do I:

(a) make it into an issue
(b) let them leave it. I can't recall anyone dying of spinach deficiency.

I'm inclined to go for (b).
 

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Posted by dolphy (# 862) on :
 
"Spinach is full of iron and will make you grow up big and strong just like Pop-Eye". Mum's quote worked on one of my brothers but not on me. And as for being forced to eat fried liver and kidneys.... (sorry, had to use that one!)

However, now I do like spinach, I even grow it! It is much nicer if it is picked and cooked when it is young and tender, none of this old and gritty stuff you can buy. It is also lovely un-cooked in salads.

I have not eated liver and/or kidney since I was ten years old. Even the thought of it makes me want to...... *insert THAT smilie*.

Laura, you're doing a grand job!!!
 

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Posted by The Lad Himself (# 2073) on :
 
Safeway do admittedly expensive bags of baby spinach, washed and ready to eat, which are downright delicious. I usually use them as a base for salads but have been known to munch through the bags as if they were full of crisps.

Also - it is particularly good for you.
 

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Posted by Henry Troup (# 3722) on :
 
Not only am I 49.5% geek, I never was a picky eater. They put food in front of me, I ate it.
 

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Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by dolphy:
"Spinach is full of iron and will make you grow up big and strong just like Pop-Eye".

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

Then again, I am a technical writer.

How many of you know who Jakob Nielsen is? Or care?

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quote:

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How many know what a MIF file is?

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quote:

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Wrote his first computer program in 11th Grade? Back in 1970. Using paper tape and a TTY on a dial-up to MacAuto.

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quote:

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Know what RPN is? And prefer it.

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Went through a phase of using it in maths class. It annoyed the hell out of people sitting next to me because they couldn't work out what I was doing.


Oh - wait - they were rhetorical questions?

[/tangent]

Back on topic... my mum's fond of telling us about how when she was little her parents embarked on a huge crusade to get her to eat liver. They never succeeded, and that (combined with having worked in a meat pie factory) contributed to her becoming a vegetarian.

They did the same with onions, chopping them smaller and smaller so she couldn't pick them out. (She did anyway.)

Problem, of course, is that mum now feels guilty trying to get me and my siblings eating stuff we don't like - so we've all learned to be very picky.


Amorya
 

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Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
The whole spinach thing is a mistake, they put the decimal point in the wrong place when measuring the iron.

Anyway it's not about spinach it's about POWER! Parents have it kids don't. Trying to pretend otherwise just screws kid's up.

I could have told you that you were a Nazi years ago .

P
 

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Posted by dogwatch (# 5226) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by The Lad Himself:
Safeway do admittedly expensive bags of baby spinach, washed and ready to eat, which are downright delicious. I usually use them as a base for salads but have been known to munch through the bags as if they were full of crisps.

Also - it is particularly good for you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pyx_e:
The whole spinach thing is a mistake, they put the decimal point in the wrong place when measuring the iron.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dogwatch:
You eat the bags?? They probably taste better than the leaves, though.

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Yes. Yes, I eat the bags.

 

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Posted by Trini (# 7921) on :
 
I didn't eat green or orange foods (except Smarties) until age 19 at Red Lobster when, a salad arrived automatically with my order and as I was being hosted by people other than my parents, I decided to try it so as not to offend.

My main complaint has always been that I don't like my food to crunch. It bothers me. Although, crunching isn't the only problem. Mom and I once fought over pumpkin. Not crunchy, but orange.

Our wars were usually about eating, rather than eating specific foods. I spent the first 5 years of my life sitting either at the dining table or in my rocking chair in the corner of the dining room. Those were the options as long as I hadn't finished eating. The fun days were the one where I sat at the table straight through from breakfast to dinner.

In the background, Dad would be saying "Clearly she isn't hungry, I don't see why we're forcing her to eat?". Bless him.

My younger sister had it right. When she was finished eating, she turned her plate over on her head. This was very effective in keeping the parents tuned in to when she was full so as the avoid the messy routine.

My boyfriend says that as the first child, his parents forced him to eat but by the time they got to the third kid, they decided that if she was hungry, she would eat. So no force-feeding. Lucky girl.

When Mom visited me this Thanksgiving, she was shocked to find salad in my fridge. I graduated to eating cauliflower when I got my first job and at a meeting we were sitting around a table where the only offerings were veggies and dip. (That was two years ago.) Much like the Red Lobster experience, it was the social pressure and the certainly that no one would understand someone past 16 who didn't eat veggies. Basically, I was trying to act grown-up!

Yesterday, at a business lunch, they fed us something that resembled broccoli but it wasn't broccoli. It was dreadful and bitter. Most of us tasted it and rejected the rest. There was unanimous agreement that the chocolate mousse with the chocolate cups at the end were superb!
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
I have just realised that I have the highest score so far! And I know that there are some very technical people reading this thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
How many know what a MIF file is?

Wrote his first computer program in 11th Grade? Back in 1970. Using paper tape and a TTY on a dial-up to MacAuto.

Know what RPN is? And prefer it.

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Well a MIF is an anagram for MFI file, a shop that stocks flat-pack furniture. It is also Management Information Format File, a standard used to describe hardward or software. MIF Files are used by DMI, which is an API.

RPN is noitatoN hsiloP And, I can take it or leave it. It is very useful in some cases though.

I have no idea what age you might have been in 11th grade, but I started programming when I was 15, on a Sinclair ZX81 using BASIC. Although later, I did use a tty, but that was only when I couldn't get on the 'proper' terminals connected to the mainframe.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
Babybear wants to know if the kids get to force me to eat things I don't want. Babybear has got the wrong end of the parenting stick. Do they get to tell you when to go to bed and inquire into your use of alcohol? When the kids are making dinner (and the eldest does this once a week), then I will eat everything that they put in front of me.

Karl: as to your contention that it's better to let it go, you imply that I do not pick battles carefully. My eldest hates all vegetable material so while it is true that an individual spinach serving is not the difference between life and death, his doctor is clear that some vegetable matter needs to be eaten. The solution we came up with was what my parents called "no thank you" helpings. You get a token amount (in this case, two teaspoonsful) of spinach or carrots or peas or squash or whatever. And that's what you have to eat. The virtue is that almost anyone can choke down two teaspoonsful of peas, with lots of water. The rest is histrionics for which my eldest is famous. He has a huge future on the stage.

I would never force a kid to eat a proper adult serving of a food he found truly vile to the retching point. I was made to eat scallops as a young child even though the smell made me retch, and that's how we discovered my allergy to same. It was not a pretty sight.
 

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Posted by Not Too Bad (# 8770) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Pyx_e:

Anyway it's not about spinach it's about POWER! Parents have it kids don't. Trying to pretend otherwise just screws kid's up.

P

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quote:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Firenze's mother had it right.

Hmmm. Kid won't eat spinach.

Do I:

(a) make it into an issue
(b) let them leave it. I can't recall anyone dying of spinach deficiency.

I'm inclined to go for (b).

---

Did you know that babyfood spinach passes through the system virtually unchanged? Yet another story with which to embarrass our now 14 year old son.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
This is the oddest double thread I've created -- Geekhood and Nazi Parenting.

As to the Geek test, I scored big for the early computer stuff and the self-education things. Not so much for the RPGs or SCA membership (too many weirdos in the SCA where I was). I programmed on a TRS-80 and an Apple II (48K!!!!!) in BASIC and later learned some PASCAL. I used USENET early. I communicated using bitnet, pre-WWW. My mother was an early computer gal, back when they were still using punch card reading systems and computers took up a whole room (or two). And then of course, the Jane Austen listserv.
 

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Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Miffy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Firenze's mother had it right.

Hmmm. Kid won't eat spinach.

Do I:

(a) make it into an issue
(b) let them leave it. I can't recall anyone dying of spinach deficiency.

I'm inclined to go for (b).

---

Did you know that babyfood spinach passes through the system virtually unchanged? Yet another story with which to embarrass our now 14 year old son.

---

Amazing. I thought it was only lager that did that.

Laura: I didn't think you'd be the type to force stuff down. I'm just not quite sure of the choice of spinach, which as has been suggested, can really taste extremely vile to some kids.

Flausa: Your dad sounds like right [can't post this in Heaven]. I'd send you some cold cream for your botty but it's probably a bit late now...
 

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Posted by sophs (# 2296) on :
 
I got 44.3 (1dp) - I very rarely game, but have been known to spent hours on end on the disc world games, and others....I also read a lot...
 

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Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amorya:

quote:

---

How many know what a MIF file is?

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Some kind of Windows device driver?

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quote:

---

quote:

---

Wrote his first computer program in 11th Grade? Back in 1970. Using paper tape and a TTY on a dial-up to MacAuto.

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First program aged six in 1991... does that count? Had I been in eleventh grade in 1970 I'm sure I would have done so then...

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Not Too Bad:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pyx_e:

Anyway it's not about spinach it's about POWER! Parents have it kids don't. Trying to pretend otherwise just screws kid's up.

P

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I agree with Pyx_e. Is that supposed to happen?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rossweisse:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
Never give up! Never surrender!

---

By Grabthar's hammer, by the Sons of Worvan, you shall be avenged!

---

I hoped someone would catch that.

---

Even with money super-tight right now, when I found Galaxy Quest for under $8, I HAD to buy it. I think I will watch it yet again today. Don't you adore Tony Shaloub's character, him and his girl-thing?

I don't know diddly about computers, though, and so only scored 30.17751%. How did I rank "Total Geek" when I can barely tell a font from a cookie?

Now that's an ideal idle afternoon -- watching Galaxy Quest and munching a huge fresh spinach salad with a little drizzled olive oil, some good wine vinegar, sage, rosemary, basil, fresh-ground black pepper, some nice crumbled boiled egg...

Oh, drool, it's lunchtime...
 

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Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
Your whole approach is all wrong. You are letting the dinner table become a battlefield, and the kid will win.

When Jr. Campbellite was little, we decided not to make a fight over meals. If he was hungry, he would eat. If not, he wouldn't. We served what we had, and if he didn't like it, he knew where we kept the peanut butter jar.

It seemed to work.

When he was about four years old, his mom had him with her in the grocery store. He was all in tears as they went through the produce section, because she was not going to buy squash.

When he started school, we were afraid he would find out that he was not supposed to like broccoli. He put the other kids into it.

In middle school (age 12) he would come home, take a box of frozen spinach from the freezer and nuke it for a snack.

He now works as a chef in a restaurant.
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
What sprouts, Sophs? Brussels?
 

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Posted by Trini (# 7921) on :
 
I tried to encourage Mom to have asparagus for the first time this Thanksgiving. She grudgingly put one spear on her plate and it was still there when she was finished eating. I ended up eating it and the look of relief on her face was incredible!

I learned to be picky from my Mom! It just that we're picky about different foods.

[ 10. December 2004, 17:32: Message edited by: Trini ]
 

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Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Craigmaddie:
When I was a nipper I loathed cabbage with a vengeance and just plain refused to eat it. Then one day I remember my dad saying "We're going to have cabbagio for dinner tonight - would you like some too?". According to the family mythology I wolfed it down. I'm doubtful though as I still find my dad's boiled grey, rubbery cabbage just as unappetising 25 years later...

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quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:

The idea that people should eat what's put before them makes sense for adults at a dinner party, but it doesn't wash at the family dinner table. There's something to be said for having the courtesy to serve things to one's family that you know they'll enjoy eating.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pegasus:
In any lrage or largish family you'll have to put up with what you've got quite a lot of the time.

---

• 1 block chopped, frozen spinach, broken into several chunks and placed into a basket steamer over a pot of boiling water
• 2 tsp. chicken bouillon powder
• 1 c. sour cream
• 1/2 c. grated Parmesan or Romano cheese
• Salt, finely ground black pepper to taste
• Optional: Few dashes hot sauce

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pegasus:
In any lrage or largish family you'll have to put up with what you've got quite a lot of the time.

---

True, but Laura doesn't have a large family, and neither did my mom. And I rather doubt she's hurting for money to feed everyone at the end of the month.

---

Wow. Ouch, Ruth. Way to be harsh and judgmental and also assume a lot about me.

It's not about money, though as far as you know, it might be rather tight for us because of the monthly cost of maintaining an ill elderly relative or two.

But as it happens, I do take into consideration what everyone else likes. The way I do that is to make a main dish I know everyone likes, accompanied by one side dish I know everyone likes. Because there is no vegetable besides the potato (and the carrot) which meets with eldest's approval, I either have to deny everyone else any vegetables, or require him to eat two bites of the vegetable I make for everyone. Nobody gets force-fed whole meals only I like or only my husband and I like. In this manner, the eldest has come to actually enjoy carrots, which were for many years very loathesome indeed.

I think this is a very far cry from arbitrarily imposing my will on the children without any consideration for what they like.

In fact, if that were so, they'd eat the stir-friend tofu and spicy vegetables and soup I'd prefer to eat. Instead, I almost never make something that would be my first choice. And we work to introduce foods bit by bit that are acquired tastes. And although I may be an ogre, there's also none of my mother's habit of forcing everybody to eat a huge mound of cottage cheese once a week (gack!).

And if you think I'm such a bitch, you can just ... um ... bite me.

[ 10. December 2004, 19:07: Message edited by: Laura ]
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
....and I don't make him eat meat, most of which he can't stand, texturally, and makes him gag.
 

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Posted by Pegasus (# 5779) on :
 
Kenwritez, will you adopt me too?

Failing that, will you send me monthly food parcles?
 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
Peg, you'll need to pass a short exam before we can consider you for adoption into the Writez household:

1) Which Star Trek captain (Kirk, Picard, Janeway or Sisko) was your favorite and why?

2) What is your opinion about the movie, "Miller's Crossing"?

3) Is there such a thing as too many onions, too much garlic, or too much hot sauce on food?

4) Which board games (if any) are your favorite? Can you provide at least some competition in Jeopardy, Trivial Pursuit, Pictionary, Boggle, Scrabble, War or Spades?

5) Can you endure repeated viewing of any of the Lord of the Rings or John Wayne DVDs?

6) Can you withstand the emotional stress of being a Californian?

7) Will you do household chores and can you sew well?

8) Are you good company on long trips? Can you cheerfully endure AAA (i.e., minor league) baseball games?

9) What are your views on the unprovoked singing of show tunes?

Finally, you'll have to pass an interview with the Sturdy Wench; she carries the majority vote on this issue.

As for the parcels, pasta Bolognese doesn't travel well, but I can provide you good recipes or links to same.

[ 10. December 2004, 20:32: Message edited by: KenWritez ]
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Battles at the dinner table are some of my least favorite childhood memories. I will never for the life of me understand why anyone would engage in them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez:
Peg, you'll need to pass a short exam before we can consider you for adoption into the Writez household:

1) Which Star Trek captain (Kirk, Picard, Janeway or Sisko) was your favorite and why?

---

quote:

---

2) What is your opinion about the movie, "Miller's Crossing"?

---

quote:

---

3) Is there such a thing as too many onions,

---

quote:

---

too much garlic, or too much hot sauce on food?

---

quote:

---

4) Which board games (if any) are your favorite? Can you provide at least some competition in Jeopardy, Trivial Pursuit, Pictionary, Boggle, Scrabble, War or Spades?

---

quote:

---

5) Can you endure repeated viewing of any of the [/i]Lord of the Rings[/i] or John Wayne DVDs?

---

When I wa at school me and my equally nerdish friend used to write notes to each other useing the dwarf runes from LotR. I think I pass this test with flying colours.

quote:

---

6) Can you withstand the emotional stress of being a Californian?

---

quote:

---

7) Will you do household chores and can you sew well?

---

quote:

---

8) Are you good company on long trips? Can you cheerfully endure AAA (i.e., minor league) baseball games?

---

I am excellent company on all occaisions.

quote:

---

9) What are your views on the unprovoked singing of show tunes?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by babybear:

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Battles at the dinner table are some of my least favorite childhood memories. I will never for the life of me understand why anyone would engage in them.

---

I totally agree. I think that Laura sounds like a fantastic, non-Nazi mother, but I totally fail to understand where she is coming from on this. She picked this fight. Why on earth would any parent want to pick a fight at the dinner table?

---

Ogres like fights.

My children are very happy, though, you'll be happy to know. And dinner time arguments are rare.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by leonato:
Only 8% geek, I must be more normal than I thought.

Laura: have you force-fed the sprogs sprouts?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Grits:
[...] I salute you, Fraulein. Heil to the Nazi moms!

---

Sounds more Nazarene than Nazi to me, Ladies. Well done!

Blessings
 

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Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 
Am I the only person on the ship (or in the entire world for that matter) who adores broccoli?
 

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Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
Nope. Same here.
 

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Posted by Go Anne Go (# 3519) on :
 
I, for one, eat broccoli like it is going out of style. I have a real thing for veggies, I love them.

I'm with Gritsie - a lot of the eating stuff is learned. My friend Debbie raised her sons eating even as babies the same stuff they ate, just mushed up as necessary. Todd ate curry from a young age, and anything else. Of course, his mother is one of the best cooks I know, and his grandfather was a food critic/editor for the Philly Enquirer. These people know food. They've taught me a lot, even as an adult, but if I wasn't unafraid to approach food in this way, I never would have learned.

Then again, snob that I am, there are only three types of food I won't eat.
1) Offal (kidneys, liver, tripe). A lthough I might have eaten some of this in China and just not known.
2) Mac and cheese. I don't understand why. I love pasta, I love cheese, I love lasagna and things with pasta and cheese in it, just the smell of mac and cheese makes me queasy.
3) Baked beans. Again, don't ask me why. I strongly suspect school dinners. Beans any other way, no problem.
 

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Posted by MrSponge2U (# 3076) on :
 
I love broccoli smothered in melted cheese. Yummy.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Grits:
I think there are very few tastes or textures with which we really, truly have an inate problem. I fully believe that most eating peculiarities are learned. ... Once in a while they may run across something they just genetically hate, but every vegetable known to man? Give me a break. (And don't get me started on Trini's "orange and green" issue.)

So... if you want your kid to be a healthy eater, you have to start him out young. ...


No one ever said being a good mom was a popularity contest. It's 18+ years of consistent, thoughtful guidance and discipline, often to your own inconvenience and dislike. But as I keep saying, it's worth it. I never missed a minute's sleep when he started driving, I've never felt the need to wait up for him, and I've never had to question where he was, who he was with or what he did. Why? Because we had handled all that when he was little, when character is established and roots are grown.

I salute you, Fraulein. Heil to the Nazi moms!

---

Grits:

We did blow it with our eldest, by catering too much too early, so that by the time we tried pushing the envelope it was harder to lay down the law. But I'm glad to say it mostly worked,. and he really has expanded his repertoire of things he genuinely likes. Last year he discovered that he really liked salsa, of all things (I keep saying that salsa is all of these veggies crushed up together, so why not eat them separately?). So there's developing potential here that I'm not going to let go because of his native resistance.

But our youngest will eat almost anything put in front of him (which means that I probably shouldn't have forced the spinach issue with him, as he probably really found it icky, but I try not to appear partial). He eagerly consumes everything from spicy Thai to hummus and dolmadas, likes kalamata olives, and always remembers to say "yum"!.

That said, my papa was a hideously picky eater as a child -- cheese and tapioca and that's all, everything else was a war. As an adult, though, he's really branched out into all sorts of bizarre tastinesses.

Well, as with many parenting issues and kids, we are all individuals and YMMV.
 

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Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
..re: Children and spinach. You can blame Papa Bush for that. He was and presumably still is famously anti-spinach and got into a scrape with the US Spinach Growers Association (or whatever it is called) for saying so. ...

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quote:

---

I fully believe that most eating peculiarities are learned.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dolphy
"Spinach is full of iron and will make you grow up big and strong just like Pop-Eye".

---

quote:

---

Am I the only person on the ship (or in the entire world for that matter) who adores broccoli?

---

I like broccoli. Especially raw.

I also like spinach. The great thing about spinach is that when they do it in cafateria Hall in College no-one else wants it. So if you do ask for spinach you are guaranteed triple helpings at no extra cost!
 

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Posted by Pegasus (# 5779) on :
 
Sorry for the DP but I only just remebered this one:

What's the difference between boiled cabbage and snot?


You can't get the kids to eat boiled cabbage.

Which does beg the quetion, why, when they will eat bogies, worms, bugs, mud, buttons* and wash it down by drinking the bath water, is it so hard to get them to eat something normal like mashed potato?

*We found it in his nappy
 

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Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
Because there is no vegetable besides the potato (and the carrot) which meets with eldest's approval, I either have to deny everyone else any vegetables, or require him to eat two bites of the vegetable I make for everyone.

---

• Cabbage - boiled
• brussels sprouts - boiled
• chicken - steamed
• water
• white bread - but only if she made it herself with no additives, and, bizarrely
• homemade pear jam on the bread

Nothing else. For six weeks. We took her out for yum cha and the next day the regime began.

She stuck to it gamely.

In the end, she turned out to be one of the 25% for whom diet is not the cause of their allergies. Yes, it's the anti-allergy drugs for the rest of her natural. But at least she can eat what she likes - with one exception.

She tells me that she will gag and die before another brussels sprout passes her lips.

[ 11. December 2004, 02:38: Message edited by: Duo Seraphim ]
 

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Posted by Tortuf (# 3784) on :
 
We have a policy in our house that kids will have at least one bite of each food put on their plates. (Adults are not required to do this, although I have often wondered how some folks would react to the policy.)

One of our neighbor kids is a notoriously picky eater. If it isn't pizza or Kraft™ Macaroni and Cheese, he ain't gonna put it in his mouth. On a night where he had the poor judgment to eat at our house we served broccoli (which I adore, BTW.) He would not eat it. He had never tried it and was not about to start for us.

I tried persuasion. "It's a little tree. Try the little tree." Nah.

I tried "Just one tiny little bite. Look, Zachary thinks it's good. Watch him eat it." Nah.

I eventually became Mr. Nutritional Crusader Person. "You are not leaving this table to play on the Playstation™ until you try one bite of broccoli." There are days when I wonder about my sanity.

He finally ate a bit small enough to be seen only with one of the more advanced electron scanning microscopes and immediately began retching. I jumped up, grabbed him and ran with him under my arm to the bathroom so he wouldn't throw up all over the table. As I carried him I uttered the magic words "You did this to yourself you know."

His mom did not speak to me for a month.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 4754) on :
 
My mother, having fought the "you'll eat it and you'll LIKE it" battle with her own parents, especially my grandfather, who was determined to cook but rather bad at it, never made The Dinner Table a Battle of Wills.

I benefitted from this. Organ meat never appeared on our table, for one. The one time I was served it unawares was Scrambled-Eggs-With-Brains at Grandpa's. I am told that my brother and I both reported in to Mom with "Mom, these eggs taste funny" and were told "You don't have to eat it, just don't say anything", because she knew Grandpa would have several kinds of fits if we fussed. Which directive we complied with, much to her relief.

(I will also note that my mother, her sister, and her brother are all EXCELLENT cooks, in self defense from Grandpa, no doubt.)

Picky eaters we weren't, so it wasn't tough to work around our small list of dislikes. We also had butter (and for broccoli, cheddar cheese sauce) available for our veggies. I was in college, and suffering through slimy canned veg in the dorms, before I could appreciate most veggies not slathered in some sort of butterfat. So this is not the same as Laura's issue, or Kenwritez's issue. I actually quite agree with Laura that some vegetable matter other than potatoes or carrots needs to be consumed. Her mission is to find a way to get the kids to eat it. For the spinach I'd suggest something like spinach florentine (e.g. very heavily gussied). I cheerfully ate spinach salad as a teenager (for some reason nobody thought to serve it to me before, but the Ob Bacon Bits really helped ) but cooked spinach had to be really doctored. Nowadays I can eat it Italian style (steamed, then sauteed in garlic) minus the parmesan, butter butter butter, or pork products.

One other suggestion the late lamented Laurie Colwin makes in her "How to disguise vegetables" chapter in _Home Cooking_ is fritters or pancakes. Kids like things that are Crispy and Good With Ketchup and it might help persuade them to eat the non-fried version later.

I grew up with my cousins around about half the time and in that family the only thing all four kids liked was hamburgers and lasagna, leading my aunt to haul us all off to McDonald's one Thanksgiving to avoid the "EEEW! I hate turkey!" announcements at the holiday table, only to find the Golden Arches closed.

Charlotte
 

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Posted by Gort (# 6855) on :
 
[tangent] There is increasing testimony that roach feces is a greater cause of asthma and allergic reactions than many others. [/tangent]

The public’s awareness of health concerns associated with pests was heightened in May, 1997 when the New England Journal of Medicine published a study showing that the common cockroach is a major cause of a growing asthma epidemic among inner-city youth and apparently prompts a majority of the most serious cases.
 

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Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:
...She tells me that she will gag and die before another brussels sprout passes her lips.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamb chopped:
I seem to recall reading about some people being "super-tasters"--more sensitive than most to certain tastes.

---

Here's a very short article about supertasters and natural sensitivity to a bitter chemical called 6-n-propylthiouracil. It explains why some people will hate sprouts no matter how they are cooked.

By the way, you can reduce the amount of bitterness in the sprouts by simply leaving the saucepan lid off when cooking them. Let them boil rapidly for about six minutes (less or more depending on the size) until just tender, drain them well, serve them immediately and don't let them stand around. If you still don't like them, you've got a scientific excuse.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
The picky eaters that I know have almost all come from families where dinnertime was a battleground. The few who don't fit into this category have a medical reason for their fussyness, eg intolerance to wheat, allergy to red summer fruits or peanuts.

The way that works best for my family is to prepare dinner and put it on serving dishes on the table. Then everyone can choose what to put on their plates. The rule is that if you put it on your plate you should eat it. This approach is valued by a friend who has an eating disorder, it makes it easier for them to put things on their plate.

When we have new stuff the children often ask for a taste. They eat a greater range of foods when they were little, but the range is coming back. This is what happened with me, and so I see it as being fairly normal.
 

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Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
My dinner table is not a battle ground, it's a massacre.

P
 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
I shudder to think of life in the Pyx_e household....

"You kids just don't appreciate the genius of Dr. Mengele!"

"Young man, WHERE is your tuna?"

"Dear Pyx_e Family: Thank you for your visit today to St. Batholemew's. We feel your spiritual needs would best be served in another church, one in which loud comments during service of "You're a shithead!" might be viewed as valid sermon critiques. Yrs, etc."


 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I was one of those fussy eaters.
When I was small, I really couldn't stand the sight of ketchup, never mind the taste. When the rest of the family ate it, my mum made me a barricade out of newspaper to hide behind so I couldn't see them eating.
Wierdly, I loved cherry buns from the local bakers - except for the cherries, which I picked out and left at the side of the plate. When we went to visit my Auntie, I was told very sternly that I must eat the cherries. Fortunately, Auntie saw me looking dubiously at the cake, guessed what was wrong, and whispered that I could leave them if I wanted to.
I'll eat them quite happily now - but I still won't eat ketchup by choice.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
I'll eat them quite happily now - but I still won't eat ketchup by choice.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:
Actually there are nutritional drawbacks to spinach. The oxalic acid in the spinach binds calcium you eat at the same time so that the body can't use the calcium.

---

Well, you learn something every day. I only wish I could have said that to Mum in reply to her at the time, mind you, there's still time to do so!
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Laura, I'm sorry. I don't have kids, so it doesn't much matter what I think anyway.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
You are entitled to your opinion from your point of view as being a kid, certainly.

---

I'm still a kid about green bell peppers. Unless I'm in someone's home, in which case I swallow without chewing so I don't have to taste them so much, I pick green bell peppers out of things and leave them in a little pile on the edge of my plate. Anyone who laughs at me is in danger of having them flicked across the table at them.
 

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Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
I'd hate to see what you do to a supreme pizza.
 

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Posted by Gort (# 6855) on :
 
My two Gortlets would only eat vegetables when young; any type as long as it came from a plant. Attempts to force them to eat meat were futile [except the eldest, who would tolerate fish]. Sugar and candy was also taboo. Eventually they succumbed to peer and media pressure. They are now happily normal and consume vast quantities of burgers, pizza, potato chips, soda and candy.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Green bell peppers on pizza are problematic, because even when I've picked them off, I can still taste them when I eat the parts of the pizza where they were sitting. But my biggest nightmare would be being invited to someone's house for dinner and finding they were serving stuffed bell peppers as the main course. Can't exactly swallow that without chewing.
 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
RuthW, I cordially invite you to dinner at my house.
 

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Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Green bell peppers on pizza are problematic, because even when I've picked them off, I can still taste them when I eat the parts of the pizza where they were sitting. But my biggest nightmare would be being invited to someone's house for dinner and finding they were serving stuffed bell peppers as the main course. Can't exactly swallow that without chewing.

---

I used to dislike peppers vehemently. With regards to stuffed peppers, if forced to eat them I used to take as much filling as I could with as small a piece of pepper. Seemed to work (it was the texture I disliked really - the taste wasn't bad.)

The only thing I really will not eat now (apart from meat - I'm vegetarian) is mushrooms. When I went to france once, aged four, I saw someone eating snails, and thought they were mushrooms. The association has lived on in my mind ever since, and I have refused to touch them. Pretty much anything else I can bring myself to eat if necessary (eg not offending someone), but mushrooms I will not touch. I tell people this if they invite me anywhere (with many apologies!)... it hasn't caused me too much grief yet.


Amorya
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
Peppers tend to infect everything near them. I like them, but my husband feels much as Ruth does and avoids them.

Ruth: what you fear about bell peppers as a main course can happen! We often retell the kids the story of when we went to a young friend's first dinner party as a married couple. They are vegetarians and were very proud to serve us mushroom pie in their new apartment kitchen. I can't express to you my and my husband's feelings about mushrooms, and to be presented with a whole big slice o' pie stuffed with multiple sorts was a real challenge. But of course, we dug in with gusto. We complimented the pie fulsomely, regretfully refused a second slice and spent the rest of the evening after returning home crying "Mushroom pie! Aaaaaah!"

But, as I explained to the kids, sometimes you just have to suck it up and eat it. If one has an allergy one can beg off. But you can't say "I don't like mushrooms" under these circumstances.

Strangely, mushrooms don't turn up very often in my cuisine.

[ 11. December 2004, 16:14: Message edited by: Laura ]
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by babybear:
The way that works best for my family is to prepare dinner and put it on serving dishes on the table. Then everyone can choose what to put on their plates. The rule is that if you put it on your plate you should eat it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rat:
I was pretty placid about the food itself, my problem was with the layout. I liked my food all in seperate piles on the plate, not getting mixed up together, so I could choose what got mixed and matched on my fork.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Grits:
(to RuthW the Pepper Picker)
I'd hate to see what you do to a supreme pizza.

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quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
Unless I'm in someone's home, in which case I swallow without chewing so I don't have to taste them so much, I pick green bell peppers out of things and leave them in a little pile on the edge of my plate.

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I love crispy bacon; as a child, if I received a piece that had too much fat on it, I would strip off the offending substance and leave it behind. My mother's comment inevitably was, "If you were invited to the White House and were served a piece of bacon you didn't like, would you do that?" To this day I am not entirely certain of my priorities.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amorya:
I tell people this if they invite me anywhere (with many apologies!)... it hasn't caused me too much grief yet.

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quote:

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Ariel said:
Oh wow. My family would have gone up the wall. "You don't give children choices" was their motto together with "If it's on your plate you eat it" and "don't waste food".

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I get annoyed with people who waste food. If I have made too much food for dinner then I will often have the left-overs for lunch the following day. If there is just a little bit left over I pop it in the freezer in the 'pig bag'. When the 'pig bag' is full I will hand it over to my friends who keep pigs. That way virtually no food is wasted.

I really disagree with the "Don't give children choices!" Right from the start, as soon as they were able to make choices I let them make the decisions that they were capable of making.

At 18 months a child is perfectly capable of choosing wich socks to wear out of a choice of two. Later they can decide on what flavour of yogurt. I am struggling to remember either of the children having a temper tantrum when they were little. I think that is down to letting them make age-appropriate choices.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
I find spinach too bitter to eat, though I can stomach it in salmon pasta, for example. BUT I adore sprouts! So much so that I eat leftover cooked ones cold, like sweets. Mmmmm.

I heard something on the radio the other week about how many times a child has to try a food before it becomes palatable. Apparently as we grow older we can still learn to like new foods but the number of times we need to taste them before we like them rises from about 8 to 25 (I think).

So there is sense in getting kids to try things -but IMHO NO point at all in making the dinner table a battle. There are so many other vegetables to offer! As far as vegetables go, my two girls spent a lot of their childhood eating just carrots and broccoli - however they ate vast amounts, plus potatoes, garlic and onion, and this covered most of their veggie needs.

I know too many people with eating disorders, and with behavioural problems because they have NO say in their lives at home. So there's a middle ground, in my opinion.

However, as long as it works for you, then so what? I couldn't have coped with battling over food and always served things I knew for sure they would enjoy. I don't quite understand the need to impose spinach BUT if it's important to you and you don't mind the hassle...

Oh, and I scored 8% - making me a 'Poser'. And one of the two least geeky people here! Except my pleasure at that fact makes me a geek, I suspect. Just not a computer one!


 

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Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 
I really dont think kids, like adults, should be forced to eat everything. Nobody likes everything. I think you can positively encourage kids to try stuff - but tirning it into a battle just really isnt worth it. Do you want the kids to remember meal times as battle grounds or as a fun family social time?
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
RuthW, I cordially invite you to dinner at my house.

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Where you will cordially be serving stuffed bell peppers, no doubt.

Laura, my hat is off to you for eating all those mushrooms (though I must say, I love mushrooms). I hope I behave as well at KenWritez' house.
 

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Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Weed:
Here's a very short article about supertasters and natural sensitivity to a bitter chemical called 6-n-propylthiouracil. It explains why some people will hate sprouts no matter how they are cooked. ...

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quote:

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...supertasters find the taste of PROP revolting. ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
I'm still a kid about green bell peppers. Unless I'm in someone's home, in which case I swallow without chewing so I don't have to taste them so much, I pick green bell peppers out of things and leave them in a little pile on the edge of my plate. Anyone who laughs at me is in danger of having them flicked across the table at them.

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Ruth! I'm with you totally on this.

And I was just about to note that the ghastly taste contaminates anything it touches -- pizza, for example -- when I noticed you'd made the same point.

Rossweisse // who can't eat pepperoni, either
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:

quote:

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Originally posted by Rossweisse:

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Never give up! Never surrender!

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By Grabthar's hammer, by the Sons of Worvan, you shall be avenged!

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I hoped someone would catch that.

Ha! Now you must take the Geek Test. Alas, I scored a 40.8 - Total Geek. ...

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Apparently I'm not any sort of geek; I cannot get the bloody thing to load! Neither can Zeke.

 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
RuthW, I cordially invite you to dinner at my house.

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Where you will cordially be serving stuffed bell peppers, no doubt.

Laura, my hat is off to you for eating all those mushrooms (though I must say, I love mushrooms). I hope I behave as well at KenWritez' house.

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LOL... yeah, I thought about it. But since I prefer not to turn my dinner table into a battle of the wills with you, instead I'll ask you what you prefer and serve you that, or at least attempt to pleasantly surprise you, although I *may* serve stuffed peppers to the SW and me.

Then again, I may not. Y'know, I've never made stuffed mushrooms, and the SW is a fungal admirer, so I may have to indulge both of your mycological appetites, should you grace us with your presence.

Either way, things you'll never find at my dinner table: Organ meats, okra, eggplant, beets, anything with a face or tentacles still attached.

Tonight I made chicken noodle soup (recipe available on request), and the SW paid me the highest possible compliment: She had two bowls, and suggested she just might have a third for dessert. You can't buy that kind of compliment!
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
Then again, I may not. Y'know, I've never made stuffed mushrooms, and the SW is a fungal admirer, so I may have to indulge both of your mycological appetites, should you grace us with your presence.

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quote:

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Originally posted by babybear:
The picky eaters that I know have almost all come from families where dinnertime was a battleground. The few who don't fit into this category have a medical reason for their fussyness, eg intolerance to wheat, allergy to red summer fruits or peanuts.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky
Allergies are a different matter and it is, of course, important to notice if your child comes out in hives when they breathe in peanut dust!

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Unfortunately it's not always clear that someone is having an allergic reaction, rather than simple indigestion or something similar.

I developed an allergy to peanuts as an adult. I quickly figured out that when I ate peanuts I got a nasty gut ache and other unpleasant symptoms.

It took me a long time to realize that many foods are prepared with peanut oil, and they do a number on me. I carefully read the labels on packages of roasted nuts. They frequently say, "Roasted in peanut or safflower oil". Since I have no way of knowing which kind of oil was used, I don't eat them. Incidentally, Nutella also contains peanut oil; I discovered that for myself.

Moo
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rat:
There is a seperate issue of basic manners here, isn't there? I mean, it's one thing to be a picky eater at home, or when you have reasonable control over what you order, but quite another to inflict your pickiness on the hapless host who has cooked up a storm for your benefit. In those circumstances even the pickiest eater surely ought to be able to gird their loins "I'm a Celebrity" style and eat what's in front of them, or a respectable amount of it at least. And smile sweetly and not make a fuss while they do it. It's not poison, after all.

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People like the person I was talking about quite often physically can't make themselves do that - if they have to eat something that's not on their list of possible foods, they will actually gag and probably throw up, and not putting anything on your plate is preferable to gagging in public. But also believing you are going to gag does tend to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Kudos to Mr Rat for doing that!

And these things are preventable, but his parents didn't prevent it, and they are treatable, but most people won't get treatment. Which is very . One case we had in class was of a woman who believed she was going to swallow her tongue, and couldn't eat anything without being very drunk first. Fortunately her alcohol intake and weight were noticed before she got really ill and she got sorted out by first relaxing with a cup of tea without alcohol, moving on to soup etc.

Moo - sounds like you have a food intolerance rather than an allergy - obviously the result (not being able to eat the food in question) is the same but having had a food intolerance myself the doctors and nutrionists made the difference plain. Fortunately you can only be made dammed uncomfortable by a food intolerance, you're unlikely to actually die. As I understand it you have to have the histamine-type reaction (is that what it's called?) i.e. skin stuff, breathing stuff, for it to actually be an allergy. But I'm sure someone will be along in a moment to explain better than me.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
if they have to eat something that's not on their list of possible foods, they will actually gag and probably throw up, and not putting anything on your plate is preferable to gagging in public. But also believing you are going to gag does tend to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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I made some mushroom, celery and feta pie yesterday for a shared lunch at church. There was some left over and because of this thread I decided to give it a try. The sauce was lovely, as was the cheese. As a whole it was okay, as long as I didn't think about the mushrooms. I shall have a slice of the pie for dinner tonight.

quote:

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Rat said:
When it comes to people like Go Anne Go's ex-friend (and I know a girl like that myself) you have to blame the parents not so much for their offspring's eating habits, but for not teaching them the basics of consideration to others.

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Yes the parents must take some of the blame, but when the child has fully grown up they become responsible for what goes into their own mouth. Many of us on this thread have started eating things that we hated as children. Sometimes that is due to the way the food was cooked, sometimes due to a maturation of taste. But we have done this by choosing to have a taste of something we 'knew' we didn't like.
 

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Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I was a picky* eater, and I was indulged.

I now eat lots of things I wouldn't eat then.

Some people still consider me picky*, but I really fail to see what's picky about not wanting to eat something that tastes incredibly horrible. Fish is my bete noir - I could no more eat a piece of fish than I could eat a raw piece of liver that had been rotting for a month. Actually, the smell and taste are pretty much the same to me.

*picky - not really a fair term. It seems perjorative. When I have to find an alternative to gammon, because it tastes nearly as bad as fish, I'm not indulging a preference; I'm avoiding something that will make me feel extremely unwell and leave a horrible taste in my mouth that nothing can clear for hours.

And indeed I was forced to eat all these things at school. And it did not expand my palate, it just reinforced my knowledge that:

a) they taste worse than dog turds
b) one eats them only if one is forced.
 

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Posted by Pegasus (# 5779) on :
 
I can't believe that a thread about Laura's children eating their spinach has got up to four pages.
 

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Posted by ORGANMEISTER (# 6621) on :
 
Do not expect your children to thank you for much of anything. As a parent you will be perceived by your offspring to be arbitarily mean and hateful when you insist that they at least try new foods, clean their rooms, attempt to be civil to family members and other adults, bathe regularly, take their school assignments seriously, etc. Your reward will come later.

It is only now, after 2 yrs at university, that Organmeister, Jr. has on very rare occasions mentioned that he was glad that I and Frau Organmeister had insisted that he master some particular task, learn a specific skill, etc. Perhaps my joy will be complete when he says, "Dad, I'm really glad that when I was in High School, you drilled me on conjugating French verbs." I honestly don't expect this to happen but maybe he will say, " Dad, thanks for teaching me that there are occasions when torn jeans and old T-shirt are ok and sometimes I really should wear a clean shirt and a tie."
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I was a picky* eater, and I was indulged.

I now eat lots of things I wouldn't eat then.

Some people still consider me picky*, but I really fail to see what's picky about not wanting to eat something that tastes incredibly horrible. Fish is my bete noir - I could no more eat a piece of fish than I could eat a raw piece of liver that had been rotting for a month. Actually, the smell and taste are pretty much the same to me.

*picky - not really a fair term. It seems perjorative. When I have to find an alternative to gammon, because it tastes nearly as bad as fish, I'm not indulging a preference; I'm avoiding something that will make me feel extremely unwell and leave a horrible taste in my mouth that nothing can clear for hours.

And indeed I was forced to eat all these things at school. And it did not expand my palate, it just reinforced my knowledge that:

a) they taste worse than dog turds
b) one eats them only if one is forced.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
If anyone comes forward and tells me they used to eat a huge variety of food until it was served at school dinners and they were forced to eat it, whereupon they were put off, well the next thing on my plate will be my words!

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Custard. I hate it. It makes me want to be sick.

I actually like the taste - well the taste of eral custard anyway - the horror of custard is nothing but the association with school dinners. I'm pretty suer I'd have eaten it before school. I can eat savoury things with what are technically custards on them (like egg & cream set in a tart or quiche) as long as I don't think of them as "custard"

Fish, on the other hand, is wonderful. More than any other food the smell of fresh fish makes me want to eat. I salivate if I walk downwind of a fishmongers, whether I am hungry or not. It just smells so much like food.
 

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Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I think a "picky eater" - as an adult - is one who can more easily produce a list of foods he will eat than those he won't.

As far as I'm concerned my list of things that I simply cannot bear the thought of eating is very short:

Fish
Gammon
Cold cured meats

There are other things I can eat under sufferance.

Oh, and tinned tomatoes served as a side vegetable.
 

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Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
The one thing I cannot even attempt to eat is mince or anything I regard as Cunningly Disguised Mince (sausages, burgers, meatloaf, lasagne).

I blame my mothers insistance that everything was eaten at meal times and the Scottish thing about having mince at least three or four times a week. If I didn't eat my mince it was served up to me at every meal until either it went off or I made it impossible to eat (my usual technique was throwing up into it although I stopped doing that when I was forced to eat the resulting mixture once.)

Even now I cannot even smell mince or look at it. I have to close my eyes walking down the mince aisle at the supermarket. Even writing this makes my stomach turn. Does that mean I have a bona fide mince phobia?
 

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Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 
Eeeuch! Gammon! I remember a holiday in the western Lake District one year (1997, to be exact) with a group of friends. We arrived late, having chosen a particularly unfortunate route to drive from Leeds (think Bradford, Calderdale, Burnley, Preston...). The meal that greeted our arrival was gammon, baked beans , and as its only redeeming fetaure jacket potatoes. Mrs the G. enjoyed it. I couldn't say what I thought of it (= ), as it had been cooked for us, and we had kept everyone waiting.

The only other stuff I really don't like is very hot-tasting stuff like (hot) chillis.
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And please, don't feel sorry. There are hundreds of foods in the world that are not fish or gammon. I am managing perfectly well, and constantly finding new foods, that don't involve fins or scales.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:

quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
If anyone comes forward and tells me they used to eat a huge variety of food until it was served at school dinners and they were forced to eat it, whereupon they were put off, well the next thing on my plate will be my words!

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Custard. I hate it. It makes me want to be sick.

I actually like the taste - well the taste of eral custard anyway - the horror of custard is nothing but the association with school dinners. I'm pretty suer I'd have eaten it before school. I can eat savoury things with what are technically custards on them (like egg & cream set in a tart or quiche) as long as I don't think of them as "custard"

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:

quote:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And please, don't feel sorry. There are hundreds of foods in the world that are not fish or gammon. I am managing perfectly well, and constantly finding new foods, that don't involve fins or scales.

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But there are lots of essential oils in fish that are hard to get elsewhere,

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
and it is a whole, huge, source of protein that you are cutting out - there are far more varieties of fish than there are of meat, or of vegetable protein.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
I do feel sorry for you! And if you are that sensitive to the smell, how do you stand to go to the seaside? How dreadful not to be able to do that!

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
If anyone comes forward and tells me they used to eat a huge variety of food until it was served at school dinners and they were forced to eat it, whereupon they were put off, well the next thing on my plate will be my words!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pegasus:
I can't believe that a thread about Laura's children eating their spinach has got up to four pages.

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I know, I'm so very proud.
 

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Posted by Gambit (# 766) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
you have to have the histamine-type reaction (is that what it's called?)

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
And if you are that sensitive to the smell, how do you stand to go to the seaside? How dreadful not to be able to do that!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pegasus:
I can't believe that a thread about Laura's children eating their spinach has got up to four pages.

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I know, I'm so very proud.

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Just be sure that you pass on the popular thought that unless they're allergic, good children eat their spinich. At least "no thank you bites" of it.

The masses have spoken. (Stupid populist masses.)
 

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Posted by hild (# 6042) on :
 
I used to be made to eat cheese at school. Being a polite child, I would not tell anyone when I went away to throw up. For some bizarre reason, I didn't tell my parents about it (fortunately I wasn't made to eat the stuff at home) so I kept on having to endure the loathsome substance.

In later years, I discovered mozarella cheese, which I can eat in moderation, and a chemistry-orientated friend told me it lacks something found in normal cheese. So it looks as if there is something more to my hatred of cheese than just a psychological aversion.

Incidentally, it took me years to be able to eat cream or yoghurt - and my babies were both intolerant to lactose in my diet (ie while they were being breastfed) until the age of about 4 months.

As for dinner-table battles, I was furious with my younger son this Sunday. We had told him what time we were leaving to go to church, had summoned him from his bed with 30 mins to go (his alarm hadn't worked, he claimed), with 10 mins to go we made him get dressed (he claimed he'd been asleep on the floor for the preceding 20 mins) and gave him 4 mins for breakfast (well, I told him 2 mins but I'm not that heartless really). The cereal bowl was snatched from under his nose before he'd eaten half of its contents - kid really on a go-slow because he was in a grumpy mood. When at church I refused to buy him a snack from the vending machine, and was accused of starving him. No, son - just get up in time next week, you'll have lots of time for breakfast....
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by chive:
The one thing I cannot even attempt to eat is mince or anything I regard as Cunningly Disguised Mince (sausages, burgers, meatloaf, lasagne).

I blame my mothers insistance that everything was eaten at meal times and the Scottish thing about having mince at least three or four times a week. If I didn't eat my mince it was served up to me at every meal until either it went off or I made it impossible to eat (my usual technique was throwing up into it although I stopped doing that when I was forced to eat the resulting mixture once.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Go Anne Go:
The level of cooking can also matter, so being adventurous helps. For example, there's a lot of stuff I did'nt particularly like when I was growing up as Mom's just not that competent in the kitchen. Now, of course, I'm such a foodie that I'll eat a lot of these veggies all the time, just because I can prepare them well. Or at least prepare them by not boiling them to pulps without any seasoning!

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quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
Laura, you should show this to your kids to prove that you are not in fact nearly the Nazi they think you are. I'll bet it never occurred to you to make them consume their own vomit.

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quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
When I was growing up vegetables mainly came in soups or stews and so were invariably overcooked, so I hated most cooked vegetables. I have since learned that if they're just stir-fried a little bit or lightly steamed, most cooked vegetables are edible after all.

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quote:

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Originally posted by HopPik:
At the risk of going on a bit, but changing the subject, just been looking around this post, saw discussion of broccoli... I always used to think, watching the James Bond credits, how weird it was that the producer (ie Broccoli) had the same name as a vegetable. Heard the other day it was the other way around. Someone in his family invented broccoli, by crossing cauliflowers with peas.

Ok I'll shut up now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Paige: I do agree that children are innately more inclined to be picky or unpicky, and I have one of each. But how do you suppose little Vietnamese children come to like spicy noodles? Or little Indian children to like aloo gobi?

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That question is perfectly valid---and I would respond by saying "My child DOES eat our national cuisine...chicken nuggets and fries!"

Seriously---it just gets my goat that those of you whose children eat most anything think that somehow your "good parenting" gets the credit. And the corollary, of course, is that those of us whose children are picky have ruined them by our mollycoddling. Chalk another one up for the
"Mommy Wars."


lamb chopped---your point about exposure to tastes in utero and nursing was very interesting. When I was pregnant and nursing (which I did for quite a long period of time), I ate almost nothing but protein---meat, cheese, eggs, etc.--and I loved highly spiced food. My son won't eat any of those things, and spices of any sort are anathema to him. Maybe I DID ruin him!!!
 

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Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
My mother was told by our family doctor when I was about 2 and eating only fruit, cheese and fish that she shouldn't worry because I would eventually get bored and try other foods. He was right and Mum simply made sure that there was other food around for me to try should I want to. I remember only one food battle and that was over my Dad's cooking, which even my mother wouldn't eat - omelette with half an inch of dried herbs. The herbs were thicker than the omelette. Dad lost that one comprehensively.

I'm one of those unfortunates who have to tell people that I can't eat certain foods - I'm severely lactose intolerant, and I'm allergic to chilli and capsicum. What amazes me is that people then immediately assume that I am a vegetarian when I am a most enthusiastic meat eater. I've made up a little card to give restaurants when I visit because the number of products that have hidden lactose is phenomenal and after a while I added the information that I could eat meat and fish.

I do get terrible cravings for cheese occasionally. But the end result is just too horrible to contemplate so I never give in.
 

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Posted by lamb chopped (# 5528) on :
 
To repeat--

I don't think it's good parenting by and large, I think it's genetic. Some of us get lucky, some of us don't. But maybe that comment wasn't directed at me?

Here's another one forced to consume her own vomit. I suspect that would be called child abuse, these days. Certainly didn't do me any good.
 

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Posted by Paige (# 2261) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by lamb chopped:
But maybe that comment wasn't directed at me?

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quote:

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Originally posted by lamb chopped:
Here's another one forced to consume her own vomit. I suspect that would be called child abuse, these days. Certainly didn't do me any good.

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I find this notion so utterly appalling that I would have to take it to Hell to describe my reaction to it. Child abuse, indeed!
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
I don't actually think there are many children who are naturally not picky to some extent. When I worked in an area where malnutrition was extremely common (the children in schools with discoloured hair because they are malnourished are just heartrending, and seeing the 8-year-olds of expat friends outstripping the 11-year-olds we worked with was also really sad), children still had distinct food preferences. Chicken and chips was the favourite, with cassava porridge, and okra, coming way down the list. Children don't like slimy things - big surprise. Families can afford to buy/grow slimy things - another sad truth. But that's what they get, and that's what they eat. When there's no choice, children may express a preference when asked, but they eat what's there.

The mother-and-child-health nurses told us that they worried about 2-year-olds in particular, when they are stopping breastfeeding entirely (often, but not always, because of a subsequent child) and they aren't yet old enough to stick up for themselves nutritionally, or make good nutritional choices; if mum's too busy to watch very carefully, they will eat too little. I remember reading some quote from some SE Asian mother in a cookbook which said "I never heard of children not liking vegetables". My reaction was "you obviously never asked your children".
 

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Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I think it's a dice roll, really I do.

Take my little niece. She's nineteen months old and she eats anything put in front of her.

She has always eaten anything put in front of her. There have been no battles because she's never refused anything! It's not good parenting (although her parents are good parents; that's beside the point!) - it's simply that the matter has warranted no parental input.

On the other hand, there are toddlers who despite every method of forcing known to man (short, one hopes, of force feeding vomit) will eat only marmite on toast, crisps and usually one other, generally bizarre item, like olives.
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Cross-posted with Karl so just to add:

While it's great to introduce lots of variety early on, I know there are kids that will eat some things before the age of about 2 or 3 but are very difficult to persuade afterwards - I think it's something to do with autonomy - plus also before that age milk is an important source of nutrition so a larger amount of extra foods isn't needed. I know there are things my mum swears I loved as a baby but just aren't to my taste now.
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Also:

I really like the concept of the No Thank You Bite. I think we had to eat all, or most, of what was on our plates - though we were fairly pliable children (actually, I think that may be the difference between children we think are picky vs not picky - all children have some pickiness, but some children are more pliable than others, and some parents give in to their children's non-pliability - any takers for chukovsky's theory of pickiness?)

I can see The Spouse™ heaving a weary sigh and looking forward with dread to small servings of beans...
 

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Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rossweisse:
I will never forget my introduction to khaki-colored peas, cooked in their khaki-colored juices, and the whole dumped, undrained, onto my plate, where they colored and flavored the boiled potatoes that were a feature of almost every meal.

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Pea juice! Pea juice!

Ahem, sorry, became 7 for a minute there.

I'm also appalled at the whole vomit-eating thing. A receipe for phobia if ever I heard one. I don't think I'll look at mince quite the same way again after Chive's story.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by lamb chopped:
I don't think it's good parenting by and large, I think it's genetic.

---

Children have likes and dislikes as we do. They have food allergies and intolerances. There are times when it is simply the weilding of power.

I think the best that a parent can do is to provide good wholesome, tasty meals and encourage the children to eat a range of foods.

Mealtimes should be a time when the family can sit down together, talk and have some fun. If there are power struggles going on then those things can not happen.

Using serving dishes rather than presenting a plate of food allow the child some choice. Also the 'no thanks bite' idea is excellent.

I made some mushroom pie on Sunday. My little one asked for a taste. She decided that it was just about okay, but she'd rather not have it for dinner. The older one didn't want to taste it, but was encouraged to smell it. After smelling she took a small bite and decided that it wasn't for her either. Gremlin on the other hand loved it.

They all tried and tasted the pie, and made their decisions. They know that if they don't like something then they don't have to eat. This makes them more willing to taste new things and to re-visit old things. I am happy with that.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I'm not a taker for your picky/non-picky theory Chuk. I think it's physiological.

I think people who don't have particular food aversions have no idea just how nasty some foods taste to those of us who do have them. I'm not exaggerating when I say I react to fish about the same way as vomit - if I get a bit on my hand when I'm preparing a tin of tuna for the cat or SWMBO, I have to get it off quickly, and thoroughly wash the spot, in case I accidently bring that part of my hand into my mouth. The aversion really is that strong, and it's that real.

My theory about sensitivity is borne out by the fact that SWMBO is one of those people who can take or leave fish. She doesn't think it tastes of very much. People who like it seem to find it tasty, but not overpowering. I on the other hand can detect the fact that a hot vindaloo curry was made with some fish in the stock, even though there was meat and vegetable stock in there as well, to the point of being unable to eat it.

Someone at the canteen the other week cut my cheese sandwich with a knife that had been through a tuna one before without being washed. I nearly barfed. Couldn't eat it.

No amount of "pliability" could have got me to eat fish, under any circumstances.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amorya:

quote:

---

Originally posted by HopPik:
Heard the other day it was the other way around. Someone in his family invented broccoli, by crossing cauliflowers with peas.
.

---

Wow, it was invented?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Someone at the canteen the other week cut my cheese sandwich with a knife that had been through a tuna one before without being washed. I nearly barfed. Couldn't eat it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm not a taker for your picky/non-picky theory Chuk. I think it's physiological.

I think people who don't have particular food aversions have no idea just how nasty some foods taste to those of us who do have them. I'm not exaggerating when I say I react to fish about the same way as vomit - if I get a bit on my hand when I'm preparing a tin of tuna for the cat or SWMBO, I have to get it off quickly, and thoroughly wash the spot, in case I accidently bring that part of my hand into my mouth. The aversion really is that strong, and it's that real.

---

The revised theory is not picky/not-picky but pliable/nonpliable.

But no-one is saying that food aversions are not real, or physiological. Just because something is produced by a behavioural experience and can be removed by behavioural therapy doesn't mean it doesn't have a physiological mechanism, nor does that make it "not real". We have the mechanism to acquire one-taste food aversions for a very good reason, because if something does actually make us sick then we aren't going to survive very long if we ever eat it again. This manifests itself in a helpful behaviour i.e. avoiding the food that (we think) made us sick. Something being behavioural does not mean it's not real .

However, I don't know enough about smell to know why someone would have the strong smell aversion you have - except I still don't know what you do at the seaside, and clearly you do have a problem in everyday life if you can't feed the cat without fear of gagging - so I'm afraid I do still feel sorry for you.
 

---

Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
Dear God, we've now turned to the nature vs. nurture debate. As with many other debates, the truth is in the middle. While some children are innately unpicky and some innately picky, parents can, through their actions, influence the variety of choices a child has and his or her eating habits, which can interplay with a child's native pickiness level. I don't think either nature or nuture definitive. I do think it's bad parenting not to encourage children to try new things. I think it is bad parenting to force them to eat their own vomit.

Paige: vis-a-vis the Mommy wars, wasn't it you who clobbered me for not being a stay-at-home mother a year or so back? (Maybe it was someone else).
 

---

Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
I have an aversion to raisins that came of eating them hand over fist as a child until one day finding little mealworms in a box I had been eating. I went and vomited and never was able to eat them again.
 

---

Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Sorry it looks like that Laura - guess it must have slipped out.

However that's a lovely classic one-trial food aversion you have there, if I still taught introductory psych I'd lift it straight into my lecture!
 

---

Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
I am not a fan of dried fruits (they are too sweet), but I am going to use Laura's example if anyone questions me not eating dried fruit.

It is such a great, but icky story.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Please, Chuk, please stop feeling sorry for me. I'm sure you know the power games people play with "I feel sorry for you...", and whilst I'm sure you're not intending to play them I'd appreciate you leaving the ball alone if you're not really playing.

It's not a problem; I just avoid fish. If you're not buying fish, you don't have to linger at fish markets. The seaside is not that fishy apart from (a) near a dead fish on the beach (not that common) or (b) near a fishing harbour. Believe it or not, I don't like seaside resorts anyway for quite different reasons. And I find it very hard to believe that my ability to sniff out a molecule of Potassium fishoxide, or whatever it is, at a thousand paces is anything but inbuilt. I've had it from the very first solids I ate. For a while I could eat very bland fish, but in time it got to the point that I couldn't bear the smell of any of it.

Most people are well enough aware of the not-uncommon fish aversion problem - there's three of us on this thread already - me, Amorya and Suze - that they realise that serving "non optional" (if you know what I mean) fish at a social gathering is a faux pas.

In 36 years, I've not once gone to dinner at someone's house and be presented with fish. People always ask first if they're thinking of serving it. Some react with disbelief that someone can dislike salmon steaks, but there you go.

[ 14. December 2004, 15:21: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
What I'm wondering about now is how people can lose their taste for certain things. I used to love eggnog, but I don't care for it anymore; I find it too heavy and too sweet.
 

---

Posted by Henry Troup (# 3722) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
... And I find it very hard to believe that my ability to sniff out a molecule of Potassium fishoxide, or whatever it is, at a thousand paces is anything but inbuilt. ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
What I'm wondering about now is how people can lose their taste for certain things. I used to love eggnog, but I don't care for it anymore; I find it too heavy and too sweet.

---

I recently had this conversation with a friend. She said our tastes change as we age

<actually, she said, "as you get older" >

[ 14. December 2004, 15:41: Message edited by: dolphy ]
 

---

Posted by Paige (# 2261) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
Paige: vis-a-vis the Mommy wars, wasn't it you who clobbered me for not being a stay-at-home mother a year or so back? (Maybe it was someone else).

---

Since I am not a SAHM myself, that would be a bit hypocritical now, wouldn't it?
 

---

Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
Paige: Must a' been someone else...! I hate the Mommy Wars.

chukovsky: feel free to use that as a classic aversion story. I recognize that that is what it is, I just don't feel compelled to overcome it, as I dislike raisins, but can eat them if they're baked into something. Now that I'm over five, I'm not offered them on their own very often.
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by dolphy:
I recently had this conversation with a friend. She said our tastes change as we age

<actually, she said, "as you get older" >

---

• good manners (including the use of "Sir" and "Ma'am" after the words "yes" and "no")
• homework (including proper grammar/spelling)
• treating others (including pesky little sisters/big brothers) as you would like to be treated

We all have our lines in the sand...
 

---

Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 
(is the sir/m'am thing a US thing? Ive never in my life called anyone sir or mam? (other than in jest...) Would you say yes sir just to teachers/ strangers... or to anyone older ? or what?)

I stil think theres a difference betweeen "encouraging" a child to try things (which i would do) and telling a child they sit there till tehy eat it (which i wouldnt!). I think both the

*sit there till you eat it... and the
*what would *you* like for breakfast/lunhc/dinner child, Ill make whatever you want...

approaches can cause picky eaters/ troublesome kids. Ideally Id be somewhere in the middle!!!!
 

---

Posted by Paige (# 2261) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emma.:
(is the sir/m'am thing a US thing? Ive never in my life called anyone sir or mam? (other than in jest...) Would you say yes sir just to teachers/ strangers... or to anyone older ? or what?)

---

The sir/ma'am thing is specifically a Southern custom in the United States. I know military families that have required it too, but it is largely peculiar to the South.

I was always taught to say it to those older than myself (grownups, not teenagers) and anyone in authority. It was unthinkable that you wouldn't use it with your parents or teachers. (I was born in 1963, if that gives you a time frame of reference.)

It's still very prevalent where I live, thank heavens. I just cannot stand to hear a child say "Yeah" when responding to a question. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard....
 

---

Posted by Pegasus (# 5779) on :
 
Out of interest, what do other people think is a polite way for a child to address an adult? As a child I was taught that I should address all adults outside the family as Mr/ Mrs Surname. First names were only for family, or people who had said you could use them. I also remember using "Sir" (though not "Ma'am") for authority figures.

In fact, I still feel uncomfortable and unduly familiar addressing adults older than me by their forename; but as they usually dislike being addressed by their surname I usually mannage to do without names all together.
 

---

Posted by Paige (# 2261) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pegasus:
Out of interest, what do other people think is a polite way for a child to address an adult? As a child I was taught that I should address all adults outside the family as Mr/ Mrs Surname.

---

IMO, that's about right. Here it's common to encourage little children to call adults they know well "Miss FirstName" or "Mr. FirstName" until they are school-age. So Sunday school teachers, neighbors, etc. would be "Miss Laura" (regardless of marital status) or "Mr. Frank."

Once they start school, though, we generally encourage them to use "Ms./Mrs./Mr. Surname." It probably sounds confusing to non-natives, but the kids seem to pick up on the "proper" forms pretty quickly.
 

---

Posted by Ann (# 94) on :
 
When I was a small child, known adults were 'Auntie' or 'Uncle' <firstname> or Mr/Mrs/Miss <surname>; the 'Auntie'/'Uncle' dropping out of use as we grew older except for long-standing friends of teh family. Male teachers were 'Sir' (to the point of silliness by the end of our schooldays), female Mrs/Miss <surname>. Parents were (and still are) Mum and Dad.
 

---

Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 
cant believe people call their *parents* sir and maam. To my british ears it sounds very very formal or military... do the words just become as normal sounding as "mum" and "dad" to me?
 

---

Posted by hild (# 6042) on :
 
Sprouts.

There were actually four wise men, not three. They brought gifts for the baby Jesus - gold, frankincense, myrrh and brussels sprouts.

Baby Jesus hated the sprouts, and didn't eat them.

That's why it is traditional to leave the sprouts on your plate at Christmas dinner....
 

---

Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pegasus:
Out of interest, what do other people think is a polite way for a child to address an adult? As a child I was taught that I should address all adults outside the family as Mr/ Mrs Surname. First names were only for family, or people who had said you could use them. I also remember using "Sir" (though not "Ma'am") for authority figures.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emma.:
cant believe people call their *parents* sir and maam. To my british ears it sounds very very formal or military... do the words just become as normal sounding as "mum" and "dad" to me?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emma.:
cant believe people call their *parents* sir and maam. To my british ears it sounds very very formal or military... do the words just become as normal sounding as "mum" and "dad" to me?

---

Oh, no, no, no!!! The kids only say "Sir" and "Ma'am" when they are asked a question that requires a "yes" or "no" answer. Otherwise, it's "Mommy" and "Daddy" or "Mom" and "Dad," depending on how old the kid is.

Of course, a lot of Southerners call their parents "Mama" and "Daddy" until the end of time. (I call my dad "that lowdown, worthless, SOB---but that's another thread. )
 

---

Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emma.:
cant believe people call their *parents* sir and maam. To my british ears it sounds very very formal or military... do the words just become as normal sounding as "mum" and "dad" to me?

---

Ever read To Kill a Mockingbird? By the end of the book, it seems quite natural

Amorya
 

---

Posted by Paige (# 2261) on :
 
Sorry Moo---I cross-posted with you.
 

---

Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
In 36 years, I've not once gone to dinner at someone's house and be presented with fish. People always ask first if they're thinking of serving it. Some react with disbelief that someone can dislike salmon steaks, but there you go.

---

It's only happened to me once, I was 12 and my family were going to a friend of my parents for the day culminating in dinner. Mrs Friend-of-My-Parents made a slow cooked casserole thing with smoked fish (if there's anything worse than fish it's smoked fish). I spent the afternoon smelling the stuff, feeling quite ill - ate it for manners sake when it was served to me (lots of juice and bread and stuff to make it go down) and just managed to get in the door of our house before it came straight back up again. Never again. (BTW my mum agreed with this assessment after having to clean the stair carpet )

If I'm going somewhere for dinner and the folk don't know me too well I let them know I Don't. Do. Fish. If they do know me at all well they already know not to serve it. No I don't think my diet is at all deficient in all the "good" things fish has - there are other ways to get them without risking spewing my food all over the place.
 

---

Posted by HopPik (# 8510) on :
 
Ok just going back briefly to food pickiness, cos I've been busy since my last posting and really have no opinion on this mum/dad v sir/ma'am thing... so anyway, despite what I said before I did once get anxious about our daughter's restricted appetites and spoke to our doc, she told me that for two years her own daughter would eat nothing but pork sausages and baked beans... but despite that she was perfectly normal and healthy. She reckoned as long as there's protein and veg of some sort, kids will get what they need from their food whatever.
 

---

Posted by Pegasus (# 5779) on :
 
I do find the idea of calling your parents sir and ma'am a bit odd, even if it's only used in specific circumstances. OTOH I was taught that we should always say "Yes, mum", not simply "Yes".
 

---

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pegasus:
I do find the idea of calling your parents sir and ma'am a bit odd, even if it's only used in specific circumstances. OTOH I was taught that we should always say "Yes, mum", not simply "Yes".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amorya:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emma.:
cant believe people call their *parents* sir and maam. To my british ears it sounds very very formal or military... do the words just become as normal sounding as "mum" and "dad" to me?

---

Ever read To Kill a Mockingbird? By the end of the book, it seems quite natural

Amorya

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
I have an aversion to raisins that came of eating them hand over fist as a child until one day finding little mealworms in a box I had been eating. I went and vomited and never was able to eat them again.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
What I'm wondering about now is how people can lose their taste for certain things. I used to love eggnog, but I don't care for it anymore; I find it too heavy and too sweet.

---

quote:

---

I have an aversion to raisins

---

Ye gods, that would put me off raisins, too, Laura.

(Note to self: don't make that Christmas cake or those cookies you were sending Laura with raisins or those cranberry raisin thingies}
 

---

Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rossweisse:
I knew that I was finally really an adult when I realized that I was more interested in the cake than in the icing.

Rossweisse // who still loves eggnog, however

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amorya:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rossweisse:
I knew that I was finally really an adult when I realized that I was more interested in the cake than in the icing.

Rossweisse // who still loves eggnog, however

---

I used to pick the icing off as a child, and just eat the cake!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Please, Chuk, please stop feeling sorry for me. I'm sure you know the power games people play with "I feel sorry for you...", and whilst I'm sure you're not intending to play them I'd appreciate you leaving the ball alone if you're not really playing.

---

It's not intended to be a power game - so I'm glad you appreciate it isn't. I feel sorry for someone who doesn't like fish in the way that I'd feel sorry for someone who didn't like music, or sunsets, because they were tone deaf, or red-green colourblind. I love fish and its varieties, in the same way that many people love music, or sunsets. If you've never had the appreciation, you don't know how much it can mean.

And likewise I feel sorry that you gag at the smell of fish, and it affects everyday activities like feeding the cat, in the same way as I'd feel sorry for someone who gagged at the smell of petrol, and had to be careful when filling the car, or the smell of smoke, and had to watch which pubs they went to. I can see it's not something that fills your every waking hour, but it's still an inconvenience.

I reserve my right to feel empathy for someone in a situation which I would hate to be in, and which almost everyone can imagine themselves in to some extent, having experienced gagging to an unpleasant smell.

Sorry and all, but I don't think you can decide for other people whether they feel badly about your situation - just as equally I can't decide for you if you feel badly about your situation. If I feel sorry for you, it doesn't mean I insist you feel sorry for yourself. I know some people do not see the distinction so I am making that clear.

Clearly, compared to some bad situations I would hate to be in, disliking fish intensely is not very severe, so I don't feel extremely sorry for you, just a little bit sorry for you.
 

---

Posted by The Coot (# 220) on :
 
How does verbal suggestion affect the fish-intolerant? If I offer to slap Karl and chuk around the head and body with a larged cooked trout (after IRC) will it cause gagging (including sympathy gagging from the other Fish-intolerant Shipmates)?


(Actually I have to say, I was very prone to suggestion regarding GIN... for a while there, highly descriptive text about it would make my mouth fill up with saliva in an emesis precursor. And the smell - well, that resulted in full-blown retching. The lesson is: Don't drink a bottle of it in an hour)
 

---

Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Personally, I like a good fish-slapping... especially post-GIN.

I think I should save you from that whole bottle, however, Coot. I'll have half.
 

---

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Laura, if you ever move to Britain you should audition for a role in the new stage version of 'Mary Poppins'. Much closer to the books, and darker than the film.

The scene I'm thinking of is when Mary gives the children their medicine. Michael is surprised to find that his tastes of strawberry ice. Jane says petulantly 'I don't think I like strawberry ice'. Mary replies briskly 'I don't think I care'. I immediately thought of you!

(And it turns out to taste of lime cordial.)
 

---

Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
I hate the Mommy Wars.

---

That is just cos you are such a bad Mommy.
 

---

Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gill H:
Laura, if you ever move to Britain you should audition for a role in the new stage version of 'Mary Poppins'. Much closer to the books, and darker than the film.

The scene I'm thinking of is when Mary gives the children their medicine. Michael is surprised to find that his tastes of strawberry ice. Jane says petulantly 'I don't think I like strawberry ice'. Mary replies briskly 'I don't think I care'. I immediately thought of you!

(And it turns out to taste of lime cordial.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gill H:
Tastes certainly change as we get older. How many adults like candy shrimps?

---

Candy shrimps?!
 

---

Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gill H:
Tastes certainly change as we get older. How many adults like candy shrimps?

---

Candy shrimps?!

---

Don't worry Lyda, the only 'shrimplike' thing about candy shrimps is the colour and shape of them. Apart from that its just rather tasteless over sweet candy - see here for example. Seems to be a mainstay for kids in traditional sweetshops in the UK.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Marshmallow Chocolate Filled Bunnies

You are evil to put that website up!
 

---

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Sweet tobacco and cigarette-packet chocolate fingers! I thought those would be long gone. You used to get them as part of 'smoking sets' along with a licquorice pipe and a chocolate lighter.

 

---

Posted by HopPik (# 8510) on :
 
Gosh I'd forgotten all about candy shrimps! Can you really still get them?
 

---

Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
Just to add: apparently broccoli risotto is also Nazi food. 45 minutes of staring at it was insufficient to render it acceptably palatable.
 

---

Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
I believe your child may have a great future in mediation.
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
Just to add: apparently broccoli risotto is also Nazi food. 45 minutes of staring at it was insufficient to render it acceptably palatable.

---

OK, now I'm on your side. I would be someone's slave for a week if they'd cook any kind of risotto for me.
 

---

Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
Although I might now share Ruth's views on broccoli risotto I have to say that, when I was a child, it would have brought me, too, out in open revolt.
 

---

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
Ruth and Prince Harry . Who would have thunk it.

P
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Hmm. We've got Laura offering sexual favours for hob-nobs, and Ruth offering slavery for risotto.

I really hope no-one calls your bluffs.
 

---

Posted by Benedictus (# 1215) on :
 
Well, now, slavery for a week for risotto makes me nervous. Is risotto that hard? I wouldn't have thought so, as long as you have the right kind of rice.
 

---

Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
It takes about and hour and a half of patient stirring and careful simmering to make risotto. After sauteeing onions, you saute arborio rice in olive oil for a few minutes, then you spend an hour and a half pouring broth and then wine by the cupful into the rice and letting it absorb, then you pour a bit more, let that absorb, etcetera ad infinitum. Toward the end you can add chicken, shrimp, other veggies, whatever, then some cheese, then fluff and eat. It's a lot of work.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
It's a lot of work, it's boring, and it can go very wrong. Note too that the week's slavery would come after the risotto consumption.
 

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Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
I've never really been a risotto person. I prefer more protein to my savoury stodge, I think...
 

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Posted by The Riv (# 3553) on :
 
Risotto is Slow Food in the truest sense.
 

---

Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
I love to cook, but I must confess, I'm tempted to do what my sister does and make risotto in a pressure cooker. But that seems ... wrong somehow.
 

---

Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
I use the same method, but it only takes about half an hour. Either we have softer rice over here, or I'm just a lot less fussy.

In fact, it's one of the new dishes in The Spouse™'s repertoire, and very tasty his risotto is too. But he would be the first to admit he is not an experienced cook. Though he is patient.
 

---

Posted by Mertseger (# 4534) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
It takes about and hour and a half of patient stirring and careful simmering to make risotto. After sauteeing onions, you saute arborio rice in olive oil for a few minutes, then you spend an hour and a half pouring broth and then wine by the cupful into the rice and letting it absorb, then you pour a bit more, let that absorb, etcetera ad infinitum. Toward the end you can add chicken, shrimp, other veggies, whatever, then some cheese, then fluff and eat. It's a lot of work.

---

I broke a contact lens today, and so I read this last sentence as "Towards the end you can add children, shrimp,..." and I thought, wow, she really is beginning to loose her patience in this matter.
 

---

Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
I wonder.....could you make risotto in a Japanese rice cooker?

(And could I get the offspring units to consume it?)

Rossweisse // they think broccoli is poisonous
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Changing sides again (sorry, Laura ).

I didn't learn to eat broccoli till I was almost 30. Some things just can't be rushed.
 

---

Posted by AdamPater (# 4431) on :
 
I've been trying to convince MsP that brussels sprouts are just like baby cabbages, but she refuses to see it.
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Risotto heresy time. After sauteing the onions and rice - you can add all of the liquid at once - leave on a low simmer.

And you can get instant polenta! (for those of us without grandmothers to do the required 3 hours of stirring).
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:
I use the same method, but it only takes about half an hour. Either we have softer rice over here, or I'm just a lot less fussy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:
I am using arborio rice, and it isn't hard or crunchy after half an hour, but I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not cooking it on a low enough heat, so it isn't absorbing the flavours quite enough.

We are going to our favourite Mad Italian Restaurant (run by resident Mad Italian) so perhaps I should ask him how long it takes to cook risotto, with the rice you get here?

Though I know there's an even posher kind of rice than arborio, so perhaps that's what he'd use.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Just to add: apparently broccoli risotto is also Nazi food. 45 minutes of staring at it was insufficient to render it acceptably palatable.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:

ETA: Can you bake risotto in the oven, like you do rice pudding?

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Originally posted by Ye Olde Motherboarde:
and, if you are doing something for people you love, then any effort is worth it......
RIGHT?

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Originally posted by Qlib:
But the idea that you cook something out of love, which means that the people you love are obliged to eat it - otherwise they are rejecting not just your food and your labour but also, somehow, your love, takes us into very dodgy territory.

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Originally posted by babybear:
If I feed food to people that I know they do not like it is saying "I do not care about your likes and dislikes. Your comfort is unimportant to me. You are unimportant to me"

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Originally posted by babybear:
If I feed food to people that I know they do not like it is saying "I do not care about your likes and dislikes. Your comfort is unimportant to me. You are unimportant to me"

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Originally posted by Ariel:
It shows how much you care, because you know it's good for them.

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Originally posted by Pegasus:
so please just eat the caulifower without making a fuss about it."

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Originally posted by Qlib:
Babybear -re Ariel's post: switch on your irony detectors!

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Originally posted by Smudgie:
Incidentally, I don't quite get the "I can't faff around cooking different things" approach.

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Originally posted by Laura:
Okay, because babybear has once again practically accused me of hateful cooking deliberately to upset my children

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Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
Methinks I've gone too far down the anti food-Nazi path!!

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Originally posted by Laura:
I will note for the record that both of my children like both broccoli and rice.

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
ETA: Can you bake risotto in the oven, like you do rice pudding?

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According to Queen Delia, yes, you can.

Dreadful person that I am, I cook mushroom risotto in the microwave. It takes about 20 minutes.

Deborah

[ 15. January 2005, 21:12: Message edited by: rosamundi ]
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
My mother used to say, "I am not a short order cook!" in making us have "no thank you" helpings of okra and tomatoes (my mother's soul food).

I'm now considering what Mother Ogre's Hateful Cookery Book would contain. Eels in aspic? Broccoli Anchovy surprise? Oyster Stew With Okra? Mashed Swede and Meat Containing Bones?

 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by rosamundi:
Dreadful person that I am, I cook mushroom risotto in the microwave. It takes about 20 minutes.

Deborah

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Originally posted by Laura:
Would you believe I don't own a microwave? We're very old-fashioned. I don't like the flavor of things cooked in the microwave.

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Now I'm back your side again. [Laura rolls her eyes, but is otherwise patient. ] If you can't cook and eat nothing but Cup o' Noodles and Box o' Dinner, a microwave must be a godsend, but if you can cook, I don't see the point of having a microwave.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
See how Ruth flip-flops!

People ask: how do you do leftovers??? Hint: people ate heated leftovers before there were microwaves.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
Microwaves are great for cooking rice. They're also great for making sauces and gravies thickened with flour; it's much easier to make the finished product lump-free.

I also like salmon and fresh vegetables microwaved.

Moo
 

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Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
Microwaves are good for leftovers (like heating up just ONE CUP of that delicious mulled wine) and popcorn. Scrubbing a popcorn popper is a truly tedious task. But I agree that meat heated in a microwwave tastes pretty poor.

I have come to appreciate my Japanese rice cooker, although the hoppin' john came out a little al dente for my taste on New Year's Day.

Rossweisse // "Zojirushi, I choose you! Sticky rice ball attack!"
 

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Posted by Fool of a Took (# 7412) on :
 
The newest Tooklet (on loan to me, new at age 12) looked up from his spaghetti long enough to ask why we never have pasta at our house. "Pasta" is apparantly only the orange-ish pre-packaged mac&cheese.

He had his teacher write a note in his homework book that I put too many carrots in his lunch.

His complaint to the children's aid worker was that we served vegetables (I leave you to imagine his facial expression) at every evening meal. Oh! The Humanity!

He's a pretty amazing kid, though. While his little heart thrills at the thought of pizza (real pizza, not that stuff we make at home with dough on the bottom and tomato sauce and pick-your-own toppings and cheese) he's pretty willing to eat something if everyone else is. And we're doubly blessed that Tooklet the Elder enjoys his veggies, and is prepared to set a good example.

"Too many carrots"! as if he could taste them for all the dip!
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 

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Originally posted by RuthW:
if you can cook, I don't see the point of having a microwave.

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Microwaves have their place in the Great Scheme of Things. Firstly, for recipes where any ingredients require previous cooking - 'saute the onions' translates fine into putting them in the microwave with a little oil for 1 minute.
Secondly, for preparing stock - 40 or 50 minutes is the equivalent of several hours, and without worrying whether it is going to boil over/dry.
Thirdly, for all green or tender vegetables. Cabbage - dab of butter, no water, and no more than 3 minutes. Perfect.

I cannot understand why anyone wants a cookerful of saucepans all boiling away for 10 or 20 minutes to do veggies, when the microwave will do it all in 4 or 5, and no pots to wash.
 

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Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
I'm in the "no microwave" camp. I think if I'm cooking all the other parts of the meal, one more pot/steamer for veggies isn't going to make much difference in the scheme of things and I can time things to be ready together more easily.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I first bought the microwave when I was living in a shared flat and a new flatmate moved in. On her first day she proceeded to spend 4 hours in our kitchen cooking herself lunch. As said kitchen was just big enough to fit the appliances and a dwarf to operate them, had a cooker with only three rings on it, and counter space 1.5' long, sharing a kitchen wasn't really an option.

The microwave came in handy over the years that followed. I can cook, but as Firenze says you can use it for shortcuts: defrosting is a particularly good one. It's still useful now, when some evenings I get in at around 7pm after a busy day and time-consuming journey home and have neither the energy or enthusiasm for spending the best part of an hour cooking. I don't want dinner at 8 or later, I want it pretty much when I get in.

On a practical note, it saves on electricity bills as well as time. Instead of having the oven on warming up and then on for a while, or pans bubbling away for half an hour, I can do whatever it is in about 5 minutes.
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
When the ice storms took our power out Christmas Day, I did some of the veggies for dinner in my microwave, having powered it and a lamp with a cord stretched across the street to my sister's house. I've a blog entry that tells about how weird that day was (see sig. link).

And before I got my hot & cold springwater dispenser, I used the mic for a quick cup of hot water for tea. A microwave is a Good Thing.

Of course nothing will ever replace an old-fashioned oven for some things. Such as threatening to truss up and bake unruly little children. They know perfectly well they'd never fit in the mic, so the threat loses a lot of its punch.
 

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Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 
I never thought I wanted a microwave (it was a surprise Christmas present about 15 years ago, and is still going strong!) - but now wouldn't be without it.

As well as reheating and defrosting, its also great for making sauces, custard, scrambled eggs, (superior to a saucepan for all these three - no lumps!!), sponge puddings, melting chocolate or butter, and making porridge.

One thing I don't use it for is jacket potatoes - to me they taste awful done in the microwave (I like the crunchy skins you get when cooked in a proper oven) so would rather wait an hour or so and cook a potato properly.
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
True, I'd forgotten the Christmas Pudding In Moments.

It depends on the kind of cooking. It does moist cooking as well as/better - and certainly faster - than boiling or steaming.

But I would never use it as a substitute for dry cooking methods like roasting, frying or grilling. However, it can get foods ready for these processes - my roast potatoes are always microwaved first (in their skins if reds), then finished in pre-heated oil (with sea salt and rosemary).
 

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Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 
For some reason I am incapable of making rice, either in a pot or in the microwave, which is supposed to be easier. Rice and I just don't get on.

I didn't know you could make sauces in the microwave - I'll have to try that. I usually have to take a potato masher to mine, no matter how careful I am with the stirring and the adding of the milk a bit at a time. Yet other people seem to be able to just fling the ingredients in a pot and produce perfect, smooth sauce. Another mystery.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I agree about the roast potatoes. I've never been able to cook them successfully by the traditional method, but I also prepare them in the microwave and now, they work.

I also like jacket potatoes from the microwave - it only takes 10 minutes and I don't eat the skins anyway, so it's fine with me if they're soft. If you're cooking just for yourself it seems a bit excessive to heat up an entire oven for a single potato.
 

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Posted by Laura (# 10) on :
 
I don't like microwaved "baked" potatoes either. I have to have that wonderful crackly skin you get with a proper hour (or even longer) baking. Plus, baked potatoes are no bother at all, as long as you throw them in the oven the moment you walk in from work; then you can go about the other parts of the dinner with one major piece out of the way.

Just remember to poke 'em a bit, or ... you know. Mount Potatubo!
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
When I make a beef stew in my slow cooker, I always microwave the carrots for a few minutes first to make sure they end up nice and tender.

Moo
 

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Posted by Light (# 4693) on :
 
Inspired by this thread, I tried making risotto in the microwave... took half the time and tasted twice as nice as my usual attempts.

Perhaps this says more about the low quality of my "ordinary" risotto...

Recipe found by googling.
 

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Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 
Small victory in the Beets household tonight! Opus 1, now 3 and a bit has not eaten broccoli for something over a year. I've not even put any on her plate for most of that time, even being sad enough to pick it out of the frozen mixed veg, since if she saw it on her plate she wouldn't eat anything else on the plate, no matter if it wasn't anywhere near. Tonight, we were all having some, so I offered her some from the serving bowl, expecting a 'no thank you', but got a 'yes please'. OK, victory no. 1. Next, getting her to try it... Took a small nibble, then another one. Decided she 'liked it a little bit but not a lot'. Didn't want to eat any more, but didn't push it, being stunned that we'd got that far!

My 2 major issues at mealtimes with Opus 1 are a) basic manners - you use your fork, not your fingers, you sit (relatively) still, you don't wave your fork wildly in the air, or stab it into other people, you don't take food off other people's plates etc. and b) as long as you say you've finished, that's fine, regardless of how much you've eaten. It remains my prerogative, as mummy, to decide whether you've eaten enough to get a pudding. Oh yes, and c) you must drink your drink all up. Without this last, she'd dehydrate herself.
 

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Posted by Miffy (# 1438) on :
 
Ah yes, the Broccoli Battle. Happy days!
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 4754) on :
 
The microwave, besides being essential for reheating the Healthy Work Lunches, is an important part of my batterie de cuisine at home, and not just for heating up frozen dinners.

Besides leftovers (including the all important leftover coffee ...) I do a lot of veggies in it.

I also melt chocolate and scald cream for truffles in mine. I know I can do this on the stove, but this way the whole thing stays in my trusty quart Pyrex measure, the better to refrigerate (because fewer dishes).

I just saw a recipe for pecan brittle a la micro on LiveJournal. I'm going to try that one when I'm back to eating candy .

Charlotte
 

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Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Never had a microwave, and never wanted one. Quickly heated Christmas Pudding is yucky. It took us hours to make it and hours to do the initial steaming, so why skip the final few hours and ruin the taste?

For the last few years we've eaten our Christmas meal at lunchtime, then steamed the pudding and eaten it about 5pm when our appetites have returned.
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
I use my microwave mostly for melting, re-heating or for cooking veggies.

One of the things that is best done in the microwave is porridge oats. Steaming hot porridge, made in the bowl it will be eaten from - fantastic. It tastes good, and there is no washing of horrible porridge pots.

For baked potatoes, with non-moist, but not crisp skins: cook in the microwave for 5-10 mins, so the potato is cooked, then pop in the oven for 30 mins to vastly improve the taste.
 

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Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Can confirm the AS/picky eating link. As a kid, I couldn't cope with a different brand of beefburgers from the normal - they tasted different, which was Just Wrong, which causes anxiety. That's how a kid with AS' brain works.

School dinners were therefore pretty much inedible, because everything was done differently, and was therefore Just Wrong.

Did I get the impression further up there that some people consider cheese on top of shepherd's pie to be an optional extra? Heresy!
 

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Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 

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Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
OK we're a smallish family (2 adults and 2 teens), but I do find myself often having to cook different meals for different people. But worse than that, there are days like today when you are not even sure who will be here at mealtime, let alone what they prefer to eat!

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My family traditionally refused to cook different meals. One meal was made - if you didn't like it, you sat at the table until it was over and then you could make yourself something more to your taste. (No opening the freezer for that, though - you couldn't go and fill up on junk food.)

That, I reckon, was fair. In fact, I wish they'd been slightly more forceful in making us eat stuff.

They weren't horrible about it. I hate mushrooms, as I've mentioned, so if the dish contained them then wherever possible I would get served a portion with fewer mushrooms. If I still got some, I'd just leave them on the side of my plate or donate them to another family member. They wouldn't usually cook something based entirely on mushrooms. However, I used to dislike onions - and since they formed a base of a lot of foods, I had to either sit there picking them out or just put up with them.

If/when I have kids, I definitely don't plan to make multiple meals for them. I reckon I'll go down roughly the same route as my parents - you sit with food in front of you until everyone has finished, then you can make yourself something out of the healthy stuff in the cupboards. I don't think I'll put up with faddiness though - if someone liked something multiple times in the past, then they can't just not fancy it one day and then go and make something else. But hey - I'm not a parent yet, so what do I know?

quote:

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Originally posted by Firenze:
However, it can get foods ready for these processes - my roast potatoes are always microwaved first (in their skins if reds), then finished in pre-heated oil (with sea salt and rosemary).

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Heretic! Everyone knows the potatoes have to be parboiled first, then shaken about a bit to make the outsides slightly mushy, THEN put in the roasting pan!

On the subject of microwaves, I guess they have a place. I don't think I've used one for anything but ready meals and hot chocolate for ages - and the ready meals are when I'm eating on campus and don't want to cook or get an expensive take-away.

The microwave at our uni house broke last term. I never noticed until it was pointed out... although that may say more about the amount of time I spend cooking there

Amorya
 

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Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 

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Originally posted by babybear:
One of the things that is best done in the microwave is porridge oats. Steaming hot porridge, made in the bowl it will be eaten from - fantastic. It tastes good, and there is no washing of horrible porridge pots.

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Except that I have the gift of always trying to do just a teensy bit too much, so it boils over and makes a lovely mess. Result: having to clean the microwave, plus the original bowl used as the porridge has to be decanted into a clean one prior to being given to Opus 1...
 

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Posted by Red Star Bethlehem (# 8897) on :
 

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Originally posted by Mr Me:

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Originally posted by Laura:
Gort: you are aware that there are children starving in Africa?

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Originally posted by babybear:
cook in the microwave for 5-10 mins, so the potato is cooked, then pop in the oven for 30 mins to vastly improve the taste.

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They are baked in an oven and they are baked potatoes. And it has got to be a real oven. Every now and then some food illiterate claims to make great baked potatoes in a microwave oven. You can't bake anything in a microwave, they aren't baked potatoes they are badly-cooked boiled potatoes, overdone and dry in the middle and surrounded by a half-centimetre thick layer of dusty, grainy yellowing stuff that peels off the outside and won't absorb the butter. Even with the heater attachment they aren't remotely like baked potatoes. Maybe microradio-oveners (as a German might put it) don't actually like baked potatoes, and are quite glad to get away from the chore of eating all that crispy skin and the yellow chewy bits that form under it and the little air pockets that your butter and cheese soaks into.

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Originally posted by Rat:
For some reason I am incapable of making rice, either in a pot or in the microwave, which is supposed to be easier. Rice and I just don't get on.

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Originally posted by ken:
If you are using the oven at all, why bother to use the microwave?

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