Thread: Eccles: Confession Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 
Does anybody here go to confession in an actual confessional?

I know it is rare to find weekly confession/reconciliation being offered in an Episcopal church. And actual physical confessionals can only be found in you Anglo-Catholic parishes- if even then.

I've been thinking about doing one on one private confession but I'm also a little nervous about it. My priest says there's nothing to fear and he says priests have probably sinned more than I have, haha! But I'd rather not confess to my parish priest because I know him too well. I'd rather be anonymous.

[edit title prior to moving to Limbo]
[title abbreviated]

[ 15. July 2010, 15:48: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
 

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Posted by Dubious Thomas (# 10144) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Does anybody here go to confession in an actual confessional?

I know it is rare to find weekly confession/reconciliation being offered in an Episcopal church. And actual physical confessionals can only be found in you Anglo-Catholic parishes- if even then.

I've been thinking about doing one on one private confession but I'm also a little nervous about it. My priest says there's nothing to fear and he says priests have probably sinned more than I have, haha! But I'd rather not confess to my parish priest because I know him too well. I'd rather be anonymous.

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For what it's worth .... I make confession to a priest once a year (on Good Friday) ... and depending on my perception of need I may go more often than just this once. The Anglican formula is "all may, some should, none must."

In the Episcopal Church, we've been moving away from the traditional confessional box, as has even the Roman Catholic Church. The box is really an innovation of the late Middle Ages ... and the Orthodox don't use them (I'm pretty sure, but may stand corrected!).

I think it is actually desirable to confess to a priest you know and trust, who can give counsel based on your particular situation. I took a cue from Orthodox practice and found a priest to be my "spiritual parent" (specifically, I have a "spiritual mother"), and my experience making my confession to her, and receiving counsel and a "constructive" penance, has been very helpful spiritually.

You might consider forming a relationship with another priest than your parish priest ... but from what you give here of what your priest said, it sounds like he knows how to be a good confessor.

I recommend, as you think about this sacramental step, that you read Martin Smith's
Reconciliation: Preparing for Confession in the Episcopal Church.

DT
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 
Thank you!

Yeah, I've noticed the old style confessionals are fading away from the RCC. I was told part of this was in light of the abuse lawsuits, etc. If you have confession out in the open, the person confessing can't claim that they were touched inappropriately by the priest.

My parish priest is very good, you are right. I've already "informally" confessed some things during "downtime", like during conversation at a church event I'll tell him about something I did and say, "I can be a real b*tch sometimes!" lol!
Sometimes I'll "forget" he's my priest and the "uncensored" version of me will come out and blurt out things- if this makes any sense! But to confess formally is a whole new territory for me and I am thinking deeply about how to go about it.
 

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Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :
 
I am by no means an expert in this department, but it would be a good thing to find a priest who is experienced in hearing confessions. (Believe it or not, not every Episcopal priest is very experienced in this department!)

Speaking with an experienced priest would help you to learn how you should prepare for your first official one-on-one confession, beyond the simple make-a-grocery-list-of-sins type of thing.
 

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Posted by chiltern_hundred (# 13659) on :
 
ChaliceGirl: much as I trust the clergy, I have only once made my confession to my parish priest, and generally (but not often enough!) do the deed in a monastery or when on retreat somewhere. I have in the past had spiritual directors who were serving clergy somewhere other than where I lived or worshipped.

If this is going to be your first time, it would be a good idea to get your PP to talk you through what to do; I'm sure he won't mind if you actually do it somewhere else.

If you can't find a monastery, a cathedral would be bound to have some confession-hearing clergy on the staff.
 

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Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 
In the past, at least for Anglicans, 'going to confession' has been closely linked with spiritual 'direction'; most people offering the latter ministry have been priests and there is of course an obvious overlap between the two. But many more spiritual 'directors' or 'companions' are now lay people, so if you want sacramental absolution you need to go to a priest separately. But you are less likely to need or want the 'counsel' aspect of the confessional if you discuss things in depth with someone else.

If you have a trusted soul friend/ director who is a priest and who is also willing to incorporate sacramental confession as part of the encounter, then clearly 'confessional boxes' (or even the formalities of kneeling, purple stoles etc) are unnecessary, though the latter might still be helpful.

But it might be that you want to formalise your confession, as opposed to your general spiritual journey, in a different context. Especially if your director is a lay person, or a priest who may be a good spiritual companion but less skilled at the formal business of 'hearing confessions'.

Most priests who regularly hear confessions are well able to distinguish between the everyday pastoral relationship and the formal sacramental transaction, so I personally wouldn't have any hesitation in going to my parish priest. Though if you have a particularly close relationship with him/her that might make a difference.
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 
About once a fortnight I do. Confession is awesome!
However - I'm not fussy about where I do confession, I have confessed to a priest:

At the breakfast table in a Presbytery with a glass of juice in my hand.
In a Confessional
In a swanky glass "Reconciliation Room"
In a priest's office
In the front pew of the church.
Vestry
Front seat of a car
(Become a Catholic - Get regular confession anywhere!)

I prefer to do confession face to face and actually often ask the priest if he's willing to do that, I don't like the whole anonymous thing as to me it represents society's lack of distrust in the office of priesthood.

Max
 

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Posted by aumbry (# 436) on :
 
Chalice Girl said:

quote:

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Yeah, I've noticed the old style confessionals are fading away from the RCC. I was told part of this was in light of the abuse lawsuits, etc. If you have confession out in the open, the person confessing can't claim that they were touched inappropriately by the priest.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
The box is really an innovation of the late Middle Ages ... and the Orthodox don't use them (I'm pretty sure, but may stand corrected!).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
Surely the embarressment factor is pride in the first place?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Does anybody here go to confession in an actual confessional?

I know it is rare to find weekly confession/reconciliation being offered in an Episcopal church. And actual physical confessionals can only be found in you Anglo-Catholic parishes- if even then.

I've been thinking about doing one on one private confession but I'm also a little nervous about it. My priest says there's nothing to fear and he says priests have probably sinned more than I have, haha! But I'd rather not confess to my parish priest because I know him too well. I'd rather be anonymous.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max. [spelling fixed]:
Surely the embarrasment factor is pride in the first place?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
Surely the embarressment factor is pride in the first place?

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Before my last confession, I told my mother-confessor that I was embarrassed that I was going to be confessing pretty much the same list of things I had confessed the last time. Her response was to chuckle and tell me that I could also confess spiritual pride for wanting to have new and interesting sins to confess!

DT
 

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Posted by Brian M (# 11865) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max. [spelling fixed]:
Surely the embarrasment factor is pride in the first place?

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Max, darling, your youth and innocence is terribly refreshing to an old and scarred soul such as myself.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Josephine:
We would generally regard it as better to go to the same confessor regularly, in much the same way that you would be better off seeing the same physician regularly. Yes, you can go to the ER and see Dr. Whozon Call, but your regular physican knows you, knows what works for you, knows what has been tried before without effect.

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Josephine's medical analogy is a good one, I think. As I mentioned, I have settled on one confessor, following the Orthodox model. It really does make a difference when the person knows you and your situation.

Of course, many people "shop" for a physician, finding a "personal care physician" whose style of doing medicine they like based on recommendations. So, following the analogy, you may want to ask around amongst people you know who could recommend a good confessor....

DT
 

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Posted by sacerdos (# 8790) on :
 
Isn't St Clement's episcopal church in Philadelphia reputed to be "highest church in the world"? From what I've seen on its web site I'd be astonished if you couldn't find "proper" confessionals there, and probably a number of confessors to choose from. Bon courage!
 

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Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Does anybody here go to confession in an actual confessional?

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quote:

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I wouldn't have any idea what to do or how to go about making my confession in a box

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quote:

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Originally posted by sacerdos:
Isn't St Clement's episcopal church in Philadelphia reputed to be "highest church in the world"? From what I've seen on its web site I'd be astonished if you couldn't find "proper" confessionals there, and probably a number of confessors to choose from. Bon courage!

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quote:

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In a standard confessional box surely there is a wooden wall and a grille between the priest and the confessee? It is difficult to imagine how touching could take place of either an appropriate or inappropriate nature.

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There have been isolated abuse cases of priests luring children over to their side of the wall.

I am really considering a trip to St. Clements!

[ 19. May 2008, 18:15: Message edited by: ChaliceGirl ]
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 
OK, how then does Confession work in an Anglo-Catholic church?
I have the 1979 BCP but does the Rite of Reconciliation in the BCP match how an Anglo-Catholic confession proceeds?
 

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Posted by Brian M (# 11865) on :
 
CG, my priest confessor is rector at what passes for an Anglo-Catholic parish in the Diocese of New Jersey. He tends to follow the form you cite in the '79 BCP but embellish it with items from Fr. Belton's Manual for Confessors. Others may follow different customs. Your best bet may be to make inquiries with a parish priest before you make an appointment or show up for scheduled confessions, to ensure your optimal comfort with the procedure.
 

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Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Pancho:

quote:

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I wouldn't have any idea what to do or how to go about making my confession in a box

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You learn as you go. Before you make your First Holy Communion you're taken to make your first confession....

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quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.

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I would very much hope that the folks as St. Clement's, since it is an Episcopal Church congregation, would be using the ritual forms provided in the Episcopal Church's BCP....

CG,
I would encourage you to find a priest who will use one of the two authorized 1979 BCP forms for Reconciliation of a Penitent (beginning on page 447 of the BCP). Both are well-constructed rituals, and reflect the theology of the Episcopal Church. Since this will be your first confession, with proper preparation the second, more elaborate ritual, would be a good option.

DT
 

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Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:

quote:

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In a standard confessional box surely there is a wooden wall and a grille between the priest and the confessee? It is difficult to imagine how touching could take place of either an appropriate or inappropriate nature.

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There have been isolated abuse cases of priests luring children over to their side of the wall.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I would very much hope that the folks as St. Clement's, since it is an Episcopal Church congregation, would be using the ritual forms provided in the Episcopal Church's BCP....

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quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brian M:

quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I would very much hope that the folks as St. Clement's, since it is an Episcopal Church congregation, would be using the ritual forms provided in the Episcopal Church's BCP....

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Not to encourage this tangent, but unless you can find a single ECUSA parish that says the BCP rites ad verbum, at all times, this argument loses purchase rather quickly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:

quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.

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I went to St. C's once for mass and they used the 1928 BCP, that's why I ask.

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quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:
They did? On Sundays at least, S. Clement's uses the English Missal, a translation of the Roman Mass as it existed in the 1950s into traditional liturgical English.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I'm an Anglo-Catholic. That means I practice the Catholic Faith in its Anglican expression ... which is found in our BCP.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
I only ever go to high masses at S. Clement's, either on Sunday or Holy Days, and at high mass it's the English Missal's version of the Roman Rite, normally with two interpolations from the BCP: the general confession and absolution (occasionally omitted, however) and the final blessing. I believe that more BCP material is used at low masses, though again out of the English Missal, so not actually the American 1928 BCP. Talking of that, however, I do note that they usually substitute the American "devoutly kneeling" for the English "meekly kneeling upon your knees" in the invitation to the general confession ("meekly kneeling" occasionally gets said by our British clergy).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I would very much hope that the folks as St. Clement's, since it is an Episcopal Church congregation, would be using the ritual forms provided in the Episcopal Church's BCP....

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As the discussion spun off about St. Clement's not using the 1979 BCP for mass, I probably should just have pointed out the at the end of my comment was intended as a "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" softening of that comment. I knew very well, when I wrote it, that they use the Anglican Missal and such stuff there... and I certainly have no intention of reporting them to their bishop, whom I'm sure has no idea they don't use the 1979! (note the wink again!)

Anyway, the main point, given the o.p. question, was to emphasize that we have a perfectly good, authorized rite of reconciliation in our 1979 BCP and to encourage ChaliceGirl to look for a setting where she can use that.

DT
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
I hugely prefer to make my confession face to face. I find it much easier to concentrate on what someone's saying if I can see their face and, while the counsel part of reconciliation doesn't exactly last all that long, I'm still more engaged if we have eye contact. That said, the faithful have an absolute right enshrined in canon law to make their confession through a grille, and this should be respected.
 

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Posted by Dubious Thomas (# 10144) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Hart:
I hugely prefer to make my confession face to face. I find it much easier to concentrate on what someone's saying if I can see their face and, while the counsel part of reconciliation doesn't exactly last all that long, I'm still more engaged if we have eye contact. That said, the faithful have an absolute right enshrined in canon law to make their confession through a grille, and this should be respected.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hart:
That is, of course, true, DT. I'll pray for the poor oppressed Anglicans, whose deacons cannot bless and whose faithful have no right to a grille.

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You'd better including the poor oppressed Orthodox in your prayers for the grille-deprived. Indeed, they especially need your prayers, since their priests don't actually forgive their sins, they merely tell them God has done it.

DT
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:

quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:
CG, if you do opt for S. Clement's, I would expect (though I can't be certain) that it would follow the traditional ("extraordinary form") Roman Rite rather than the 1979 BCP. Information on this form of the rite can be found here.

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I went to St. C's once for mass and they used the 1928 BCP, that's why I ask.

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They did? On Sundays at least, S. Clement's uses the English Missal, a translation of the Roman Mass as it existed in the 1950s into traditional liturgical English.

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quote:

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and I certainly have no intention of reporting them to their bishop, whom I'm sure has no idea they don't use the 1979! (note the wink again!)

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The Bishop has much more to worry about right now, but that's a whole 'nother topic!
 

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Posted by Dubious Thomas (# 10144) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Brian M:
Absent any Anglican equivalent, I think it is altogether appropriate to consider Roman moral theology on the question of confession and Communion, namely, that one has no business receiving the latter if one is aware of having committed a mortal sin and has not availed himself of the former.

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One might "consider" Roman moral theology ... and, I suppose, could adopt this as a personal discipline ... but this is clearly not where the "mainstream" of Anglican belief and practice lies, either now or in the past. Sacramental confession is not necessary for the forgiveness of sins, and it has been long-standing Anglican practice for priests to give a general absolution for all who participate in a general confession, with no need for individual confession and absolution... but, of course, you know all this!

DT
 

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Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Hart:
I'll pray for the poor oppressed Anglicans, whose deacons cannot bless and whose faithful have no right to a grille.

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Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :
 
I can see why Anglicans would want a grille, or would want to confess to a priest they don't know. Several factors:

1) Anglican priests usually stay around for quite a bit longer than RC priests
2) Anglican priests may have spouses (someone with whom they might potentially share everything, even though one should trust that they don't)
3) Anglican priests may have children with whom you are friends--it might be awkward to confess to the parent of one of your friends
4) It's a safe bet that Anglican priests do not receive the volume of confessions as their RC counterparts, giving them less "in the trenches" experience
5) Roman Catholic priests are easy to think of as "otherworldly" because of their celibacy and a general perception of detachment from worldly concerns
 

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Posted by Triple Tiara (# 9556) on :
 
I would have thought that to be good Anglicans there would have to be a confessional box in order to comply with the 39 Articles .....

... you know, the "Sacraments were not by Christ's ordinance to be gazed upon"
 

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Posted by Hooker's Trick (# 89) on :
 
Our local tat-shack does confessions in the chapel, with the priest sitting on a chair on one side of the rail and the penitent kneeling on the other side. I believe they provide you with a card as to the form.

The priest sits in profile, so isn't looking directly at the penitent.
 

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Posted by New Yorker (# 9898) on :
 
I almost always use the kneeler and grill, although from time to time I'll sit in the chair across from and face to face with the priest. At the Cathedral in Atlanta there was one confessional and two reconciliation rooms. Even then, there would often be a fourth priest sitting just inside the altar. I've used that option too. I do think that there is some merit in what I understand the Orthodox method: the penitent faces a crucifix or icon.
 

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Posted by New Yorker (# 9898) on :
 
Sorry for the double post. What I really hate is when the priest forgets to switch the green light to a red light. (Or the automatic system is not working.) This is often the case at St Patrick's. One can open the confessional door over which there is a green light and find someone kneeling. Hopefully one would block out anything heard.
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 
At both my churches (London and Home) we have "Reconciliation Rooms"

In my London Church it's two converted confessionals made into one room (with a gift shop in the remaining confessional) and you know that it's free because the priest leaves the door open when he's waiting for somebody, or he goes and sits in a pew with his Daily Office.

At my Somerset church there is frosted glass at the bottom of a window and clear glass at the top so you can see who's in there.

At both churches, The Eucharistic Celebration starts late because of queues for Confession.


Max
 

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Posted by cor ad cor loquitur (# 11816) on :
 
I have confessed in boxes, in a church facing the altar with the priest standing beside me, in reconciliation rooms, in priests' offices and once just over the halfway point on a 10k run with a priest.

In London, I generally go to Westminster Cathedral. I normally don't get there otherwise, and it's a lovely place to spend a bit of time. The queue is usually just long enough for prayer, reflection and examination of conscience; then it's into the confessional, out again, and time for thanksgiving in the blessed sacrament chapel.

Some people seek out confessors who give you a "spiritual scrubbing"; you will find them in good supply at the Brompton Oratory.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
I suppose, could adopt this as a personal discipline ... but this is clearly not where the "mainstream" of Anglican belief and practice lies, either now or in the past.

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quote:

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Originally posted by cor ad cor loquitur:


In London, I generally go to Westminster Cathedral. I normally don't get there otherwise, and it's a lovely place to spend a bit of time. The queue is usually just long enough for prayer, reflection and examination of conscience; then it's into the confessional, out again, and time for thanksgiving in the blessed sacrament chapel.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:

To be honest - Westminster Cathedral can be good if you just "want confession", but it's not very personal and you can get some very odd confessors there sometimes.
Max

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hooker's Trick:
Our local tat-shack does confessions in the chapel, with the priest sitting on a chair on one side of the rail and the penitent kneeling on the other side. I believe they provide you with a card as to the form.

The priest sits in profile, so isn't looking directly at the penitent.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Personal sacramental confession, with or without kiosks, is a very rare and historically recent reintrodcution from Rome.

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quote:

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Originally posted by cor ad cor loquitur:
Some have particular sins that they ask you about.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
Ken,
I think that's a bit of an over-statement. I recall reading recently -- though I can't recall where exactly right at the moment -- that one-on-one confession was practiced by members of the "High Church" party prior to the emergence of the Oxford Movement, and in circles influenced by the Caroline Divines ... I also think the name of Lancelot Andrewes came up.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:

To be honest - Westminster Cathedral can be good if you just "want confession", but it's not very personal and you can get some very odd confessors there sometimes.
Max

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Without getting too personal about it, Max, can you possibly describe a bit more what you have in mind by "some very odd confessors" at WC?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Stranger in a strange land:
Confession is certainly recommended by Hooker, Jeremy Taylor, George Herbert among others; as it is,indeed, in the Book of Common Prayer.

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True, but few members of the Chruch of England do it. Probably none in most parishes.
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 
I don't know - Confession is making it's way back just not in the same way that we know it.

A lot of my Protestant friends (well... except the Anglo catholic ones who do the same sort of confession that I do) have accountability partners, whom they confess their sins to and their accountability partners give them advice and then they pray together for forgiveness.
My God-daughter said that she sees her accountability partner about once a fortnight... certainly sounds very similar.

My Accountability Partner is the entire office of priesthood as instituted by Jesus himself though!


Max
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
I've been told a few times that the sins I'm confessing don't count as sins and don't need to be confessed.
One priest said "You're a teenager - you're expected to do that"
and I've had to beg for absolution.Max

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Personal sacramental confession, with or without kiosks, is a very rare and historically recent reintrodcution from Rome.

Even the sort of "spiritual director" thing you were talking about is probably a minority practice, maybe a small minority.

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quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:
Perhaps this perspective is bolstered by my Anglicanism. In our tradition, auricular confession is not the only means of obtaining absolution, so if one seeks it out, presumably one wants to hear real feedback. Otherwise why not rely on the General Confession?

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
I've been told a few times that the sins I'm confessing don't count as sins and don't need to be confessed.
One priest said "You're a teenager - you're expected to do that"
and I've had to beg for absolution.Max

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If that is a reference to the particular 'sin' I suspect, I was told that the church's teaching on it was wrong! (By a young-sounding RC priest - I know I should have gone to an Anglican priest but sometimes there were things I preferred to say in 'the box'.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
the youth are the church of tomorrow.
Max -

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- who would like train to be a youf pastor

Funny. I thought the youth were the Church of today

Q.
 

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Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
I've been told a few times that the sins I'm confessing don't count as sins and don't need to be confessed. One priest said "You're a teenager - you're expected to do that" and I've had to beg for absolution.

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If that is a reference to the particular 'sin' I suspect, I was told that the church's teaching on it was wrong!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
I've been told a few times that the sins I'm confessing don't count as sins and don't need to be confessed.
One priest said "You're a teenager - you're expected to do that"
and I've had to beg for absolution.Max

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If that is a reference to the particular 'sin' I suspect, I was told that the church's teaching on it was wrong! (By a young-sounding RC priest - I know I should have gone to an Anglican priest but sometimes there were things I preferred to say in 'the box'.)

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Oh I know a priest who would probably say that the Church is Wrong on a number of issues (especially contraception)

It's worrying when priests like that are set loose, especially when they influence the young because the youth are the church of tomorrow.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
I don't know - Confession is making it's way back just not in the same way that we know it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
I don't know - Confession is making it's way back just not in the same way that we know it.

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Is that a bad thing?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Ok I have another Confession question: when the priest absolves everyone after the general confession during a service, is he/she absolving him/herself self too?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
Sorry Hannah - but just because your priest says so doesn't mean it's correct. Being an evil convert to the faith, I actually happen to believe that the church teaches truth and I don't think I'm in any position to teach against the church's teaching.
Max

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
Sorry Hannah - but just because your priest says so doesn't mean it's correct.

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Originally posted by cor ad cor loquitur:
Just to expand a bit on Max's point: a Catholic priest can give "general sacramental absolution" but only in truly extreme circumstances: a plane about to go down, for example, or a sinking ship, or a mission setting where hundreds of people want to confess but there is only one priest. ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cardinal Pole Vault:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
Sorry Hannah - but just because your priest says so doesn't mean it's correct. Being an evil convert to the faith, I actually happen to believe that the church teaches truth and I don't think I'm in any position to teach against the church's teaching.
Max

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Um.. it's a tough one that though, isn't it?
I mean, there are some that might condier your particualr views on worship to be beyond the parameters of Catholic tradition (or at least stretching the boundaries). The GIRM is church teaching, too.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Ok I have another Confession question: when the priest absolves everyone after the general confession during a service, is he/she absolving him/herself self too?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Martin L:
I can see why Anglicans would want a grille, or would want to confess to a priest they don't know. Several factors:

1) Anglican priests usually stay around for quite a bit longer than RC priests
2) Anglican priests may have spouses (someone with whom they might potentially share everything, even though one should trust that they don't)
3) Anglican priests may have children with whom you are friends--it might be awkward to confess to the parent of one of your friends
4) It's a safe bet that Anglican priests do not receive the volume of confessions as their RC counterparts, giving them less "in the trenches" experience
5) Roman Catholic priests are easy to think of as "otherworldly" because of their celibacy and a general perception of detachment from worldly concerns

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quote:

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Originally posted by GoodCatholicLad:
The time I went to the Latin Novus Ordo mass at St. Margaret Mary in Oakland they had people lined up for confession during the mass. I never heard of such a thing, there's a time for confession but should it be during the mass?

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quote:

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Originally posted by cor ad cor loquitur:
Just to expand a bit on Max's point: a Catholic priest can give "general sacramental absolution" but only in truly extreme circumstances: a plane about to go down, for example, or a sinking ship, or a mission setting where hundreds of people want to confess but there is only one priest. See this document from the Vatican for more details.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:

quote:

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Originally posted by Martin L:
I can see why Anglicans would want a grille, or would want to confess to a priest they don't know. Several factors:

1) Anglican priests usually stay around for quite a bit longer than RC priests
2) Anglican priests may have spouses (someone with whom they might potentially share everything, even though one should trust that they don't)
3) Anglican priests may have children with whom you are friends--it might be awkward to confess to the parent of one of your friends
4) It's a safe bet that Anglican priests do not receive the volume of confessions as their RC counterparts, giving them less "in the trenches" experience
5) Roman Catholic priests are easy to think of as "otherworldly" because of their celibacy and a general perception of detachment from worldly concerns

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Interesting reasons, but none of these reasons are my reasons for wanting to confess anonymously!

I was thinking along the lines of "what if I confess something really embarrasing and personal, i.e. sexual, etc"? I'd be embarrassed to look at my parish priest every Sunday after telling him something of that nature.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
The Confession at mass is a quick "Sorry" for our Sins and the priest simply asks for God to bless and forgive our sins, however it's not an absolution because an absolution calls upon the authority of Christ and his church to bring us to everlasting life.

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quote:

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Originally posted by cor ad cor loquitur:
5) "I absolve you from your sins"

...

RC priests use (5), and I think Russian Orthodox do as well, though some say that this is a "Latin influence". Do other Orthodox use (1)?

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quote:

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May our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, through the grace and bounties of his love for mankind, forgive thee, my child, N. all thy trangressions. And I, an unworthy priest, by the power given to me by him, do forgive + and absolve thee of all thy trangressions: in the Name of the + Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen,

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quote:

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Behold, my child, Christ standeth here invisibly and receiveth thy confession. Wherefore, neither be thou ashamed nor afraid, and hide thou nothing from me. Rather, fear not to tell me all that thou hast done, so that thou mayest receive forgiveness from our Lord Jesus Christ. Behold, his Image is set before us, and I am but a witness, bearing testimony before Him of all that thou tellest me. But if thou hide anything from me, thou shalt have the greater sin. Take heed, therefore, lest, having come come to the Physician, thou depart unhealed.

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quote:

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I have also read that some Orthodox do use a "general" (group) confession in addition to individual confession. Can any Orthodox shipmates confirm this?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Martin L:
Interesting reasons, but none of these reasons are my reasons for wanting to confess anonymously!

I was thinking along the lines of "what if I confess something really embarrasing and personal, i.e. sexual, etc"? I'd be embarrassed to look at my parish priest every Sunday after telling him something of that nature.

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quote:

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Surely the embarressment factor is pride in the first place?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cyprian:
I, too, have heard that this is a western influence and, while it may be true that it is a non-Orthodox influence on the text, it certainly isn't in theology. The priest having authority from Christ to forgive sin is right there in Scripture.

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No it isn't
 

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Posted by Cyprian (# 5638) on :
 
Is this the bit where you tell us that this is another portion of Scripture where the English translations inaccurately reflect the original Greek?

Seriously, though, I have heard objections to this form but I genuinely don't see how they hold up.

The portions of the Slavic rite that I quoted above don't seem to me to be a departure in any way from an Orthodox understanding of this, as the priest is confessing his own unworthiness and stating that what he does is only by the authority of Christ.

Is there something obvious that I'm just failing to see?
 

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Posted by §Andrew (# 9313) on :
 
That was my short answer.

My long answer is this.

When the priest experiences the presence of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit informs him that He forgives the person that confesses his sins to Christ our God. And because the priest gets informed, he can assure the person confessing that his sins are forgiven.

According to Saint Symeon the New Theologian, one of the rare few* Saints to speak on confession, that's what the Lord meant when He granted that authority to His disciples. He didn't grant the authority to everyone, because the mysteries of the Church do not work in a magical way. It's about our personal relationship with God, and when we don't even experience God's presence, then things get tough.

In fact, Saint Symeon goes even further, saying that God seeing how wicked priests became, he took that gift from them, and he gave it to monks.

Anyway, for my part, I prefer the Byzantine way, where the priests, like in all Mysteries, pray to God that He forgives the man that confesses his sins. Everything is offered to God, and it is in His will to do whatever He wants. Like it is with all the mysteries.

The priest, points the person that confesses to God's mercy and love, and, if he is a real priest and not an impostor who has no love for God at all, and no interest in divine things, he assures the person of God's very real mercy and love for him/her.

A quick google search gave this:

quote:

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O God our Savior, Who by Thy prophet Nathan granted unto repented David pardon of his transgressions, and have accepted the Manasses' prayer of penitence! Do Thou, in Thy love towards mankind, accept also Thy servant [name] who repents of his sins which he has committed, overlooking all that he has done, pardoning his offenses and passing by his iniquities. For Thou hast said, O Lord: I have desired not the death of a sinner, but rather that he should turn from the wickedness which he has committed, and live. And that even unto seventy times seven sins ought to be forgiven. For Thy majesty is incomparable, and Thy mercy is limitless, and if Thou shouldst regard iniquity, who should stand? For Thou art the God of the penitent, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by §Andrew:


My long answer is this.

When the priest experiences the presence of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit informs him that He forgives the person that confesses his sins to Christ our God. And because the priest gets informed, he can assure the person confessing that his sins are forgiven.

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quote:

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Originally posted by §Andrew:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cyprian:
I, too, have heard that this is a western influence and, while it may be true that it is a non-Orthodox influence on the text, it certainly isn't in theology. The priest having authority from Christ to forgive sin is right there in Scripture.

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No it isn't

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quote:

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Originally posted by §Andrew:
...when we pray to God about someone, and we experience God's warming presence in our hearts and we know that what we ask of God He will grant... but sometimes we pray and we pray and nothing happens, you know, and you know that something's wrong or that you haven't prayed with a clean heart enough for your petition to be accepted?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
For the record, while the 1662 C of E BCP has formulations where the priest always simply pronounces God's absolution (unless I have missed an "I absolve" somewhere!), which appears to me more in line with the Greek Orthodox approach, the American Episcopal Church 1979 BCP provides for the priest to say "I absolve you" (see, e.g., pages 448 and 451).

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quote:

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Originally posted by §Andrew:
First, who said anything about feelings?

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quote:

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And second, unless we have a relationship with God, what's the point?

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quote:

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... a man-made religion ... but never get to actually know that God exists...

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quote:

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I mean, what's the point of having people telling you that you are saved, but you yourself do not experience any real salvation?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Well yes - but it was you talkng about what the priest tells you in confession

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quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:
In 1962, the form for private confession is found in the Ministry to the Sick, and the form "I absolve thee" is indeed used. Is this another 1662/1962 difference?

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quote:

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Interesting about 1979. In Canada, the BAS did away with the Prayer Book's use of the direct form, noting in the explanatory notes that it is a late development, and changes it to "...God...through my ministry absolve you..."

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The BAS seems to be drawing on the same stream as the 1979 American BCP for this usage, though it drops the "Anglican fudge" ... I've always been suspicious of the BAS!

I'm sure all kinds of discussion has gone on about which I am completely unfamiliar.

In any case, "is a later development," has become a common way of marking something to be eliminated from Anglican practice in favor of "reversion" to something supposedly earlier... as if what developed later is automatically problematic. Mind you, I'm the one who grumbled about confessional boxes being a "late-Medieval innovation"! ... So, it works this way ... late innovations are bad, unless I like them; then they're good.

DT
 

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Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :
 
As a late comer to this thread, a lot of ground has already been covered. I am mindful of the Anglican maxim of making a private confession - all may; some should; none must. This same advice would seem to apply under its modern name of Sacrament of Reconciliation.

I am now in the habit of making my confession only when I go to Walsingham, so I have a different confessor each time. For me, once a year is quite often enough; for I have my besetting sins which I commit over and over again, whereas certain other sins have no place in my nature. Consequently, my "sin list" is more or less identical each time I go, which is why personally, I would have a problem with frequent confessions.

Do what you feel is right for you about whether you confess to a priest who is a stranger, or whether it is a priest you know well. One is obviously living a sincere and a devout life, or one wouldn't be going to confession in the first place. In that way, as far as I can see, if a penitent is genuine, then the sins being confessed are not likely to be embarrassing.
 

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Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :
 
I forgot to say that I am used to both confessional boxes and face to face. To me, it doesn't matter.
 

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Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I am mindful of the Anglican maxim of making a private confession - all may; some should; none must. This same advice would seem to apply under its modern name of Sacrament of Reconciliation.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
The confessor only absolves you if the Holy Spirit 'tells' them to absolve you?

Sounds too much like Ouija boards to me. It also allows for that ever-present human error issue which could lead a confessor who desires power over salvation to abuse. No, thank you, I'm not signing up for that. Either absolve all who make the long walk up to confess or don't offer yourself up as Christ's stand-in.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
For me, once a year is quite often enough; for I have my besetting sins which I commit over and over again, whereas certain other sins have no place in my nature. Consequently, my "sin list" is more or less identical each time I go, which is why personally, I would have a problem with frequent confessions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Ok I have another Confession question: when the priest absolves everyone after the general confession during a service, is he/she absolving him/herself self too?

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As a layman, I've always assumed that was the case. I'd be interested in hearing from some Anglican priests on what they believe they're doing when they pronounce the general absolution.

DT

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
I was thinking along the lines of "what if I confess something really embarrasing and personal, i.e. sexual, etc"? I'd be embarrassed to look at my parish priest every Sunday after telling him something of that nature.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Nunc Dimittis:
I was always taught that part of the reason the priest washes his/her hands at the lavabo before the Prayer of Consecration, is precisely because one cannot absolve oneself; they are the only person in the service whose sins have not been absolved by the General Confession and Absolution.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
The lavabo actually has an interesting history, being celebrated BEFORE the offertory and symbolised purity. People could only approach the altar and take part in the Eucharistic meal whilst being pure and in the Ethiopian Rite (I mentioned that the Ethiopian Church have been untouched by modern Christianity on the Crosses and Crucifixes in Churches thread) they still do this, they also don't dry their hands but the priest flicks the water onto the congregation to remind them of this.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
People could only approach the altar and take part in the Eucharistic meal whilst being pure and in the Ethiopian Rite (I mentioned that the Ethiopian Church have been untouched by modern Christianity on the Crosses and Crucifixes in Churches thread) they still do this, they also don't dry their hands but the priest flicks the water onto the congregation to remind them of this.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Random Cathoholic:
I remember reading, a long time ago, that there are still some very old churches around Europe which have absolutely enormous holy water stoups (there's on in a church near me). The reason for this, it went on, is the mediaeval tradition - particularly in rural areas - of blessing oneself enthusiastically with holy water: it wasn't just making the sign of the Cross with the fingers, rather it was a ritual washing of the hands and sometimes the head.

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[tangent] A much more splendid and meaningful use of holy water than the mimsy anglo-catholic custom of the server, on the way out of the sacristy, dipping fingers in the holy water and offering a moist digit to the following priest. [/tangent]
 

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Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :
 
Since my own parish has no holy water, I tend to be quite un-Anglicanly generous when in places that do have it.
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Random Cathoholic:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
The lavabo actually has an interesting history, being celebrated BEFORE the offertory and symbolised purity. People could only approach the altar and take part in the Eucharistic meal whilst being pure and in the Ethiopian Rite (I mentioned that the Ethiopian Church have been untouched by modern Christianity on the Crosses and Crucifixes in Churches thread) they still do this, they also don't dry their hands but the priest flicks the water onto the congregation to remind them of this.

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This stirs a memory in my hind-brain. I remember reading, a long time ago, that there are still some very old churches around Europe which have absolutely enormous holy water stoups (there's on in a church near me). The reason for this, it went on, is the mediaeval tradition - particularly in rural areas - of blessing oneself enthusiastically with holy water: it wasn't just making the sign of the Cross with the fingers, rather it was a ritual washing of the hands and sometimes the head.

Any experts in mediaeval piety care to comment? Did I actually read this, or was I imagining it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bookworm:

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
I was thinking along the lines of "what if I confess something really embarrasing and personal, i.e. sexual, etc"? I'd be embarrassed to look at my parish priest every Sunday after telling him something of that nature.

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One of the blessings of being Episcopalian/Anglican is that you can go to a male or female confessor. If you're a woman, some things are (a little!) easier to confess in the presence of a woman, etc., whether you know the confessor personally or not.

And I actually think there can be something very powerful and grace-filled about receiving the eucharist from the hands of a priest who has also been your confessor.

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Originally posted by CuppaT:
I don't know if it is true in other traditions, but in the Orthodox Church the priests forget whatever they have heard in the confession after it is said.

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If he is a good priest, yeah. That's how things are supposed to be in the Orthodox Church. But if he is not...

Good thing that in your countries mostly people that really love Christ become Orthodox priests, so the ratio good:bad priests is rather high! Than God!
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 
I have an update on this.

Well, I went ahead and did it!

I'd rather not say where, except that it was not in my hometown, and it was in a church that had a confessional that had a kneeler with a screen, plus a chair in front of the priest so that you could have both options of being anonymous or face-to-face.
Before I went, I kind have rehearsed what I was going to say. This should help, right?

Well, no.
I got in the confessional, kneeled at the screen. The priest said the opening lines (can't remember them right now).

I blanked out! I totally froze.
I said I was sorry, and I was a bit anxious. The priest asked me if I'd like to sit in front of him and relax. So I came out from behind the screen and sat in front of him. Hetold me that it was ok and to relax, which was nice.
He asked me some basic questions like my age, marital status, etc. I confessed some things that I won't repeat here (that's confidential!) and he was very calming when he spoke to me. He gave me counsel, absolved me, and told me to go in peace. he also shook my hand.

Afterwards, I was kind of shocked that I went through with it. I felt a mix of emotions, most of them good. I'm glad I did it and will do it again! I kneeled before the altar before leaving the church. I stayed there for a good 5 minutes or so. I felt at peace and was very moved.
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
ChaliceGirl, thanks for telling us about that experience. And it's great that it was so positive and you obviously had a pastorally hearted priest who knew what to do with your nervousness.
 

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Posted by aig (# 429) on :
 
I think the inability to speak when it comes to your actual confession (as opposed to the bits helpfully written down) is not uncommon. I have been in that situation at least once. I think its like getting into cold water - you just have to go for it, say something (anything!) and the rest will come - sort of, anyway...
 

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Posted by ten thousand difficulties (# 9506) on :
 
I've had a lot of experiences, some really helpful, some pretty awful. I made a confession, face to face with my parish priest before I became a Catholic. I looked at my shoes and he started talking to me about the Easter present I'd just given him half way through. When I moved away we had no regular time; it wasn't used enough. You just had to 'grab a priest.' So I had confession in the crypt, behind the altar and in the corridor. I can recommend where in central Manchester is good...

In London, Brompton Oratory is notorious. I love the place but confesssion... I'd think twice. First of all ancient confesionals so you have to try really hard to not not hear the person in front of you. Secondly, a serious dressing down. One reduced me to tears. When I mntioned this to someone she said, 'but everyone knows not to go to Brompton! What were you thinking?' I go Westminster when I can. Anonymous and they're pretty good. I don't like it either when they just give you absolution not advice.

I hate confessing to someone I know so W.C. is great. My parish priest and I are very close so confessing to him is really hard. We have to look each other in the eye over dinner afterwards, although he does know all my boyfriend troubles since time imemrorial.

I must admit I was quite upset by having to discuss a very serious personal situation in an open church last week at my new parish priest. I'm on the reader's rota with the lady who was sitting at the back of the church and I didn't want her hearing what she could have heard. We could at least appeal for some privacy.

Bring back the confessional or at least the seperate room!
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 
I went to confession again, this time in a church without a confessional, in an Anglo Catholic church about 45 minutes from home. The priest sat inside the altar rails and I kneeled in front of him. We followed the Reconciliation of a Pentinent form in the BCP.

Confession was scheduled for a half an hour but it looked like I was the only one who showed up for confession!

Anyway...it was a good experience. I was very happy with the priest, he was very kind. I think I may make him my regular Confessor.

Tenthousand, There's no way you should be forced to disclose personal stuff in the open. Why not ask your priest if you can speak to him privately?
 

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Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :
 
So soon ChaliceGirl!? You must have told the priest when your last confession was, and what did he say to you when you said, "A fortnight ago"?

As I indicated, personally I have a problem with frequent confessions.
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 
I think frequent confession is a good thing and I would say that it's preferable to go to confession at least twice a month.


Max.
 

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Posted by glockenspiel (# 13645) on :
 
But would not that kind of frequency be an indication that the sacrament wasn't actually working? I note that the only time that this issue resulted in a doctrinal statement, the church obliged us to go once a year. Can't remember which council that was - can any shipmates fill us in on that, and the background to it??
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 
No. The primary purpose of the Sacrament of Reconcilation is to absolve us from our sins, bringing us back into a fuller personal relationship with God.

The Sacrament doesn't promise to stop us from sinning. That's our own responsibility.
I think it's nearly impossible to stop sinning completly as a result of our flawed nature but at the end of reconciliation we put forward a promise to God that we intend to stay clear of occasions of sin.
But because of our human nature, we open to temptation and we fall short of what is expected of us and we sin and so we go back to confession.

It could be likened to a child learning to walk, one small mistake and *thud* the child is on his knees crying his little eyes out with a tiny little graze. That child has two choices, sit and mope about the graze, refusing to get up again should he fall again or he could get up, dust himself off and keep walking. Each time he gets up, his legs get stronger and more used to walking, he learns that putting feet under rugs is only going to result in him tripping so he steps OVER the rugs, he learns that stairs are dangerous and need to be climbed with care.

Confession is like getting up, each time we go to confession we become stronger, we learn to avoid occasions of the sin, we dust ourselves off and we keep on walking. As we walk, we learn to avoid sins that make us fall, only occasionally falling. We come across new obstacles which make us fall and again all we can do is get up and dust ourselves off in the confessional.


Max.
 

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Posted by §Andrew (# 9313) on :
 
Each person has different needs. Even at different points of our lives we have different needs. Confession shouldn't be restrained by some imaginary time limits, but should be available when someone feels there is a reason to go to confession (and even when one doesn't feel there is a reason; sometimes we are too blind to our own sin and the discernment of a spiritual father might help).
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
So soon ChaliceGirl!? You must have told the priest when your last confession was, and what did he say to you when you said, "A fortnight ago"?

As I indicated, personally I have a problem with frequent confessions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:


The Sacrament doesn't promise to stop us from sinning. That's our own responsibility.

Max.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
So soon ChaliceGirl!? You must have told the priest when your last confession was, and what did he say to you when you said, "A fortnight ago"?

As I indicated, personally I have a problem with frequent confessions.

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And that "problem" is...??

Remember, I am fairly new to the church- not just to Anglicanism but to Christianity! Confession is a new thing for me. It's something that is helping me grow as a person, so pardon me if I "practice" a little more than your average Anglican. Cut me some slack!

PS- I might go back and confess again by month's end!
 

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Posted by Random Cathoholic (# 13129) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Confession is a new thing for me. It's something that is helping me grow as a person

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And that's what is important.

I make an examination of conscience daily (well, almost, I'm not perfect ) and make my confession as and when I feel it necessary. That averages out to once a month, I suppose, but I don't keep count.
 

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Posted by Mother Julian (# 11978) on :
 
Chalice Girl, it's been great reading this thread over the weeks. Thanks for starting it, and updating us on your journey. Frequency of confession is something I'm working on, having only started in the last year. Currently, I'm confessing three or four times a year, and it hurts my pride in having to confess the same sins time after time. Although painful, this is probably a good thing for me - the embarrassment helps me avoid occasions of sin, and I need all the help I can get! My parish priest commented recently that the general confession in the mass does not include priestly absolution (we follow the Novus Ordo), which has started me thinking that I need to make my confession more frequently.
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by glockenspiel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:


The Sacrament doesn't promise to stop us from sinning. That's our own responsibility.

Max.

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I beg to differ, at least in regard to the sin we have specifically stated to the priest. It's our responsibility to discern what needs, above all, to stop, in order for us to move on in our life and faith. When we've put it into words, and into God's hands, job done.

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Mmm, but in reality we do sin after confession, that's a fact. So obviously if you use that explanation then God is not doing his job properly and sin therefore disappears from this earth because God is making sure that nobody sins!

That's just not the case, we are granted forgiveness in the confessional and in exchange we promise to avoid the occasions of sin and to go out and with God's help, live a Christ-like life.
Because of our flawed nature, things don't always go to plan. Not God's fault, it's our fault so we have to come back to God and ask for forgiveness again.


Max.
 

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Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :
 
I'm rather glad Confession is available for those who wish it in the Anglican Communion.

For myself I find the General Confession and Absolution given by the priest during the Eucharist enough, but I can understand people, particularly with serious things on their mind, wishing to obtain a more personal absolution and some sort of spiritual direction.

Therein lies a problem. I tend to agree with Greek Orthodox practice where not every priest is allowed to automatically be a Confessor. This is a very serious and responsible position and requires someone of the highest personal integrity as he/she will be giving someone important life advice. Not every bright eyed bushy tailed ex-seminarian, all of 23 or roundabouts, IMO has proved themselves enough to be granted that privilege.

They don't have Confession in the Uniting Church, but, if they did, I think Rowen would be an excellent Confessor.

Ditto madteawoman when she is priested.

I think one important thing which needs to be borne in mind is that, if necessary, one needs to make restitution to be forgiven (money, reputation, turning oneself into the police in certain circumstances) and also needs to 'sin no more'. If one doesn't have the intention of giving up a habitual vice, however difficult and however often one backslides...?

Confession is not 'Spiritual Supawash': it requires considerable personal involvement.

In these days of 'instant religion' I wonder if it's 'just too much' for many?
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 
Haha - when I was in Australia I explained Confession to Rowen using Evangelical words. Nunc was in fits of laughter when I said "Accountability Partners"

It's true though, My Accountability Partner is the ENTIRE office of priesthood! Catholicism ROCKS!


Max.
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 
I like the General Confession too, but, I like the intimacy of the one on one confession. Being able to admit out loud my specific wrongdoings is very healing.
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
Haha - when I was in Australia I explained Confession to Rowen using Evangelical words. Nunc was in fits of laughter when I said "Accountability Partners"

It's true though, My Accountability Partner is the ENTIRE office of priesthood! Catholicism ROCKS!


Max.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:

quote:

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Originally posted by glockenspiel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:


The Sacrament doesn't promise to stop us from sinning. That's our own responsibility.

Max.

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I beg to differ, at least in regard to the sin we have specifically stated to the priest. It's our responsibility to discern what needs, above all, to stop, in order for us to move on in our life and faith. When we've put it into words, and into God's hands, job done.

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Mmm, but in reality we do sin after confession, that's a fact. So obviously if you use that explanation then God is not doing his job properly and sin therefore disappears from this earth because God is making sure that nobody sins!

That's just not the case ...

Max.

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But that's why I think frequent confession is problematic. If I have, say, wound down my car window and shouted a torrent of abuse at another driver for a very minor incident, then I take it to confession, then I do exactly the same thing again on my way back home, then it makes a mockery of the whole thing.
 

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Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :
 
Nunc, being schooled at CCSL and St Mary the Virgin, Waverley, is possibily not the best person to empathise with Evangelical explanations.

I stand by what I said about Rowen and madteawoman in having the necessary ability to be good Confessors.

On my boyhood experience of Catholic confession in the 60s - similar to those in Joyce's 'Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man' and the wonderful Fred Schepisi film 'The Devil's Playground' - I would have to say 'Yuk!'
 

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Posted by PD (# 12436) on :
 
I regard the teaching given in the Long Exhortation in the 1662 BCP Communion Office as the most sensible and balanced. To my mind confession is medicine not food, though for some people it is more like going to the chiropractor - something they have to do reguarly in order to stay fit.

PD
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by glockenspiel:
But that's why I think frequent confession is problematic. If I have, say, wound down my car window and shouted a torrent of abuse at another driver for a very minor incident, then I take it to confession, then I do exactly the same thing again on my way back home, then it makes a mockery of the whole thing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
...
Therein lies a problem. I tend to agree with Greek Orthodox practice where not every priest is allowed to automatically be a Confessor. This is a very serious and responsible position and requires someone of the highest personal integrity as he/she will be giving someone important life advice. Not every bright eyed bushy tailed ex-seminarian, all of 23 or roundabouts, IMO has proved themselves enough to be granted that privilege.
...

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Well in the CofE, newly ordained priests don't normally hear confessions. I think it is 3 years in orders before you do that. Not that 3 years necessarily guarantees any greater worthiness though..
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 
No, my old Anglican Priest heard confessions the day after his ordination to the priesthood!

Max.
 

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Posted by Random Cathoholic (# 13129) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
I tend to agree with Greek Orthodox practice where not every priest is allowed to automatically be a Confessor. This is a very serious and responsible position and requires someone of the highest personal integrity as he/she will be giving someone important life advice.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
So soon ChaliceGirl!? You must have told the priest when your last confession was, and what did he say to you when you said, "A fortnight ago"?

As I indicated, personally I have a problem with frequent confessions.

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And that "problem" is...??

Remember, I am fairly new to the church- not just to Anglicanism but to Christianity! Confession is a new thing for me. It's something that is helping me grow as a person, so pardon me if I "practice" a little more than your average Anglican. Cut me some slack!

PS- I might go back and confess again by month's end!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:I am now in the habit of making my confession only when I go to Walsingham, so I have a different confessor each time. For me, once a year is quite often enough; for I have my besetting sins which I commit over and over again, whereas certain other sins have no place in my nature. Consequently, my "sin list" is more or less identical each time I go, which is why personally, I would have a problem with frequent confessions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
Believe me, I am not going to use confession as a "free pass" to go behave badly. That's not my intent at all.

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quote:

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Nunc, being schooled at CCSL and St Mary the Virgin, Waverley, is possibily not the best person to empathise with Evangelical explanations.

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quote:

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I stand by what I said about Rowen and madteawoman in having the necessary ability to be good Confessors.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Random Cathoholic:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
I tend to agree with Greek Orthodox practice where not every priest is allowed to automatically be a Confessor. This is a very serious and responsible position and requires someone of the highest personal integrity as he/she will be giving someone important life advice.

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I am somewhat in agreement (Q: is this only a Greek custom, or is it found throughout Orthodoxy?)...

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As far as I know, in Greece itself, most clergy are what you would call "worker priests" i.e. they are ordained with minimal (if any) theological training and continue to work as a shoemaker, farmer, fisherman etc.

By and large they are not treated with overwhelming respect until they prove themselves.

Greek dioceses are fairly small and the bishop nominates certain knowledgable and well-respected clergy as Confessors.

I believe, apart from higher educational levels, it is similar with Greek clergy here.

Nunc, tis best you speak for yourself.

I know you but slightly and most of our related posts have been on the Sydney situation which is bizarre and polarised.
 

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Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:
No, my old Anglican Priest heard confessions the day after his ordination to the priesthood!

Max.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
He didn't ask how long it was since my last confession, so I didn't say anything about it. I think he may of thought it was my first time since 1. I was visibly nervous and 2. He never saw me before. He did ask me if I had a priest and parish. I said I did but I'd rather confess to someone who did not know me as well. He understood.

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I suspect the average Anglican cleric won’t have room for penitents who make frequent confessions – a priest’s time is not unlimited and there are other duties to fulfil.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hart:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I suspect the average Anglican cleric won’t have room for penitents who make frequent confessions – a priest’s time is not unlimited and there are other duties to fulfil.

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I very much hope you're wrong; we'll wait for an "average Anglican cleric" to come along and let us know. It hardly takes very long to hear a confession; I would suspect that any cleric who doesn't have time to hear confessions needs to rethink their priorities.

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If they use the Confession thingy as set out in the BCP I'd say it would take the best part of 20 minutes! Their confession is a lot longer than ours!


Max.
 

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Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :
 
I imagine, given the fact that, certainly in Australia, the average Anglican cleric has far fewer parishioners (round about 120-160 I'd say per head) than the Roman (1200+) I would imagine there'd be plenty of time.

Using the Roman wording and method (kneeling) sparks to me of a dated Betjemanesque Anglo-Catholicism.
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
He didn't ask how long it was since my last confession, so I didn't say anything about it. I think he may of thought it was my first time since 1. I was visibly nervous and 2. He never saw me before. He did ask me if I had a priest and parish. I said I did but I'd rather confess to someone who did not know me as well. He understood.

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It may be a pond difference - I don't know - but here in the UK, the invariable wording of the confession prayer includes ...that since my last confession which was ...... ago, I have committed these sins.... If the frequency of making your confession is wrong, then it will be picked up from there; that is my point.

My impression is that frequent confession is encouraged by Roman Catholics and very advanced anglo-catholics and I may be wrong, but I suspect the average Anglican cleric won’t have room for penitents who make frequent confessions – a priest’s time is not unlimited and there are other duties to fulfil. I find that in Anglican churches of a more moderate churchmanship, advertised times of regular confession all the year round are in the minority. One can always arrange a confession time by appointment.

That is why I doubt that you will have ample opportunity to make frequent confession on a permanent basis.

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We (the priest and I) used Form I on pg 447 of the BCP. It says nothing about saying how long it's been since your last confession.
This particular church has weekly confession scheduled every Saturday from 9:30 to 10:00am, and then Low Mass begins at 10:00am.
 

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Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :
 
BCP: great!

I think the Post Vatican Two name 'Reconciliation' is a more penitent empowering concept and title.
 

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Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :
 
OK ChaliceGirl, I take your point about taking it from the BCP. Oddly - in my view - in the BCP, it is intended for the ministry of the sick, but there is no reason why it should be confined to those who are sick.

I have never come across the sacrament of private confession taken from the BCP here. Believe me, it is normal practice to tell the priest when one's last confession was. If you are able to stick to the set time at the church you mention, then that may be the best arrangement for you. Amongst other things, a regular confessor would be able to regulate the frequency of hearing your confession.

BTW the modern name of the sacrament of reconciliation is a name that I favour.
 

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Posted by Sister Mary Precious (# 8755) on :
 
I have made my confession for a number of years now. I go at least once a year and sometimes more often. I have never even seen an actual confessional in an Episcopal church on either the east or west coast U.S.A.
 

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Posted by Brian M (# 11865) on :
 
As mentioned above, there are real confessionals at S. Clement's Philadelphia.
 

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Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sister Mary Precious:
I have made my confession for a number of years now. I go at least once a year and sometimes more often. I have never even seen an actual confessional in an Episcopal church on either the east or west coast U.S.A.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
OK ChaliceGirl, I take your point about taking it from the BCP. Oddly - in my view - in the BCP, it is intended for the ministry of the sick, but there is no reason why it should be confined to those who are sick.

I have never come across the sacrament of private confession taken from the BCP here. Believe me, it is normal practice to tell the priest when one's last confession was. If you are able to stick to the set time at the church you mention, then that may be the best arrangement for you. Amongst other things, a regular confessor would be able to regulate the frequency of hearing your confession.

BTW the modern name of the sacrament of reconciliation is a name that I favour.

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quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
OK ChaliceGirl, I take your point about taking it from the BCP. Oddly - in my view - in the BCP, it is intended for the ministry of the sick, but there is no reason why it should be confined to those who are sick.

I have never come across the sacrament of private confession taken from the BCP here. Believe me, it is normal practice to tell the priest when one's last confession was. If you are able to stick to the set time at the church you mention, then that may be the best arrangement for you. Amongst other things, a regular confessor would be able to regulate the frequency of hearing your confession.

BTW the modern name of the sacrament of reconciliation is a name that I favour.

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I suspect that since ChaliceGirl is an American, "BCP" here means 1979, which has a separate rite for "the Reconciliation of a Penitent" distinct from the Ministry to the Sick, as does the Canadian Book of Alternative Services.

Frankly, I find the first order overly structured and long (having grown up RC, I'm not accustomed to sitting and reciting psalms with my confessor for several minutes) and prefer the "short form."

I'm puzzled by Max's estimate of "twenty minutes." The 1662 BCP rite for confession consists of the penitent's catalogue of sins, the absolution, and a collect.

I have been told that the only parish of the Anglican Church of Canada with real confessionals is St James, Vancouver. Can our Shipmates there confirm?

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quote:

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I suspect that since ChaliceGirl is an American, "BCP" here means 1979, which has a separate rite for "the Reconciliation of a Penitent" distinct from the Ministry to the Sick, as does the Canadian Book of Alternative Services.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oblatus:
Still, even in our parish, the number of confessions registered in the service-book averages fewer than one confession per week.

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quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:

I'm puzzled by Max's estimate of "twenty minutes." The 1662 BCP rite for confession consists of the penitent's catalogue of sins, the absolution, and a collect.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brian M:
I assume that Oblatus is referring to the priest recording the number of confessions heard each week in the parish register, along with in-house visits, liturgical events like Masses, offices, Baptisms, funerals, etc. ECUSA prints a big red book for this purpose.

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• 2005: 40 confessions
• 2006: 35 confessions
• 2007: 33 confessions

quote:

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Originally posted by LQ:
ridonculous.

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This is my new word for the day, LQ! It may not be a real word, but it jolly well ought to be!
 

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Posted by New Yorker (# 9898) on :
 
While Max's format for RC confession may be a suggested version, I doubt it is used word for word like that. Confession is the most "informal" sacrament I would think. And sometimes, if there's a long line, the priest skips the full absolution formula and just says "I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."
 

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Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :
 
Since I was last logged on yesterday, I have sorted out the confusion surrounding BCP and I have been looking into this. I find I possess a copy of the American BCP 1979 which I brought back with me from my trip to US nearly two years ago. Thus, I was able to look up the American rite of reconciliation and form one in that book is virtually identical to the rite familiar over here. As ChaliceGirl has provided the words from that book in the mean time, I need not comment further.
 

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Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Max.:

quote:

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Originally posted by Hart:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
I suspect the average Anglican cleric won’t have room for penitents who make frequent confessions – a priest’s time is not unlimited and there are other duties to fulfil.

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I very much hope you're wrong; we'll wait for an "average Anglican cleric" to come along and let us know. It hardly takes very long to hear a confession; I would suspect that any cleric who doesn't have time to hear confessions needs to rethink their priorities.

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If they use the Confession thingy as set out in the BCP I'd say it would take the best part of 20 minutes! Their confession is a lot longer than ours!


Max.

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I did not suggest that Anglican clergy don't have time to hear confessions; I suggested their time is not unlimited and there is a difference. Max, depending which side of the pond you are, I am unsure whether you are referring to BCP 1662 or BCP 1979. I am unsure how you arrive at the 20 minutes you mention.
 

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Posted by Max. (# 5846) on :
 
As I said above - 1979 BOE

Max.
 

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Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
I'm preparing to make my first confession so this thread has been very useful thankyou

Next week I hope to go on retreat for a couple of days to examine my conscience and prepare. Has anyone got any suggestions about ways of doing this so that I can do it properly (including the bits I probably don't want to and would normally rush over in an attempt to pretend they're not a problem)? Are there any ways of structuring this?
 

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Posted by Vaticanchic (# 13869) on :
 
Take your most important objects/memories with you. Try to make a silent retreat. Not too long. Ban yourself from leaving the property. Just suggestions. God bless you at this time.
 

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 
As far as examining the conscious, I spend quiet time alone and any wrongs I've done, thought and said recently just pop up, and it is helpful to write them down.
Good luck with your first confession, remember it is nothing to be afraid of.
 

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Posted by Nunc Dimittis (# 848) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by chive:
I'm preparing to make my first confession so this thread has been very useful thankyou

Next week I hope to go on retreat for a couple of days to examine my conscience and prepare. Has anyone got any suggestions about ways of doing this so that I can do it properly (including the bits I probably don't want to and would normally rush over in an attempt to pretend they're not a problem)? Are there any ways of structuring this?

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quote:

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Originally posted by aig:
'It was face to face and kneeling.' Ecclesiastical Flip-flop

How did that work? I have knelt next to the priest - never facing them when kneeling. I have sat opposite 'face to face' however.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
I'm curious- what is the sacrament of Reconciliation of a Pentinent like in the 1928 BCP?

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quote:

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The Anglican one was published in 1947!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mother Julian:
Leo wrote:

quote:

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The Anglican one was published in 1947!

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Yeah, I know, it's a bit modern for my tastes too, but at least it's not infected with the taint of modernism ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
I always had the impression, mainly gained through the movies, that if you went to confession you did so once a week or you couldn't receive communion. Which shows the depth and scale of my ignorance I suppose.

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PRIDE
Putting yourself as the centre and objective of your life in place of God, or putting God in some compartment of your life. It is the refusal to recognise your status as a creature, dependent on God for your existence, and placed by God in a specific relationship to the rest of creation.

Irreverence
Making a choice of not going to the worship of God every Sunday in his church, or choosing amusements that keep you up late on Saturday night, or not paying attention to the service. Not thinking other Holy Days or of additional opportunities for giving God honour are important. Failure to thank God or to express your thanks to him adequately. Disrespect for God or holy things by treating them, in thought, word or deed, in a disrespectful, scornful or over-familiar manner. Use of holy things for personal advantage, or the attempt to bribe or appease God by religious practices or promises.

Sentimentality
Being satisfied with emotional ‘high’, or participating in religious activities with the hope of emotional ecstasy or admiring beautiful ceremonies without striving to obey God’s will.

Presumption
Depending on yourself rather than on God, therefore neglecting of the means of grace---sacraments and prayer. Dispensing yourself from ordinary duties on the grounds that you imagine you are superior to other people. Being self-satisfied or conceited over your spiritual achievements. Refusal to avoid, when possible, occasions of temptation. Always preferring your own ideas, customs, schemes or techniques. Foolish optimism. Failure to recognise your job as a divine vocation, or to offer your work to God. Unwillingness to surrender to abide in Christ, to let him act in and through you. Failure to offer God regularly in intercession the persons or causes that you should support.

Distrust
Refusing to recognise God’s wisdom, providence and love. Worry, anxiety, misgivings, scrupulosity, or perfectionism. Attempts to discern or control the future by magic, using spirits or ‘angels’, astrology, fortunetelling or the like. Magic or superstition. Taking offence at being slighted by others. Expecting that others will dislike, reject, or mistreat you; over-readiness so to interpret their attitude, or quickness to take offence. Unfounded suspicions. Being timid about accepting responsibility, or cowardly in the face of difficulty or suffering. Surrender to feelings of depression, gloom, pessimism, discouragement, self-pity, or fear of death, instead of fighting to be brave, cheerful and hopeful.

Disobedience
Rejecting God’s known will in favour of your own interests or pleasures. Disobeying the legitimate laws, regulations, rules or authority of the church, state, parents, teachers, etc.; or slow and reluctant obedience. Failure when in authority to fulfil responsibilities or consider the best interests of those under you. Refusal to learn God’s nature or will as revealed in scripture, expounded in instructions or expert advice, or discernible through prayer, meditation or the reading of religious books. Being absorbed in your own affairs, leaving little time, energy or interest for the things of God. Violation of confidence. Breaking of legitimate promises or contracts. Irresponsibility. Betrayal of another’s trust. Unnecessary disappointment of another, or the causing of shame or anxiety to those in your sphere of life.

Impenitence
Refusing to search out and face up to your sins, or to confess them or admit them before God. Disregard of your sins or pretending that you are better than you are. Self-justification or discounting your sins as insignificant, natural or inevitable. Self-righteous comparison of yourself with others. Refusal to accept just punishment or to make due reparation or compensation when possible. Deceit or lying to escape the consequences of your sins, or allowing another to take the blame for your faults. Overcompensation or attempts at self-reform or self-vengeance, to avoid surrender to God in humble penitence. Shame (hurt pride), sorrow for yourself because your sins make you less respectable than you like to think you are, or because you fear punishment or injury to your reputation, rather than sorrow for what sin is in the eyes of God. Refusal to admit that you were in the wrong or to apologise. Refusal to accept forgiveness from God or others. Doubt that God can forgive your sins, or being too proud to use the means of getting assurance of his forgiveness when you need it, that is making sacramental confession before a priest. Failure to examine one’s conscience regularly. Unwillingness to forgive yourself.

Vanity
Taking credit for yourself rather than for God your talents, abilities, insights, accomplishments, good works. Refusal to admit indebtedness to and dependence on others, or not adequately expressing thanks for their help. Hypocrisy. Pretending to have virtues you do not possess. False humility. Harsh judgment on others for faults you excuse in yourselves. Boasting, exaggeration, drawing attention to yourself by talking too much, by claiming ability, wisdom, experience, or influence you do not have, or by eccentric or ostentatious behaviour. Undue concern over, or expenditure of time, money, or energy on looks, dress, surroundings, etc., in order to impress others; or deliberate slovenliness for the same purpose. Seeking, desiring and believing flattery or compliments.

Arrogance
Insisting that others conform to your wishes, recognise your leadership, accept your own estimate of your worth as superior or inferior. Being overbearing, argumentative, opinionated, or obstinate.

Snobbery
Pride over race, family, origins, position, class, personality, education, skill, achievements or possessions.

ANGER
Open rebellion against God or your fellow creatures. Its purpose and desire is to eliminate any obstacle to your self-seeking, to get even against any threat to your security, to avenge insult or injury to your person.

Resentment
Refusal to discern, accept or fulfil God’s vocation. Not being satisfied with the talents, abilities, or opportunities God has given you. Unwillingness to face up to difficulties or sacrifices. Unjustified rebellion or complaint at the circumstances of your life. Escape from reality or the attempt to force your will upon it. Transferring to God, to your parents, to society, or to other individuals of the blame for your problems and lack of adjustment; hatred of God, and antisocial behaviour. Feeling and showing contempt for anyone for whom Christ die.. Being annoyed at the awkwardness of life and work; profanity, grumbling and murmuring.

Pugnacity
Attack upon another in anger. Murder in deed or desire. Combativeness or nursing of grudges. Injury to another by striking, cursing or insulting him; or by damaging his reputation or property. Quarrelsomeness.

Retaliation
Vengeance for wrongs real or imagined, or the plotting or harbouring revenge. Harsh or excessive punishment. Hostility, being petulant, or rashly judging a situation. Refusal to forgive, or to offer or accept reconciliation. Unwillingness to love, to do good to, or to pray for enemies. Boycotting or ostracizing another for selfish reasons. Spoiling others. Pleasure by uncooperativeness or disdain, because you have not got your way, or because you feel out of sorts or superior.

ENVY
Being dissatisfied with your place in God’s order of creation, manifested in resenting his gifts and vocations to others.

Jealousy
Offence at the talents, success or good fortune of others. Selfish or unnecessary rivalry or competition. Pleasure at others difficulties or distress. Belittling others.

Malice
Ill-will, false accusations, slander, backbiting. Reading false motives into others behaviour. Starting, collecting or repeating gossip. Arousing, fostering or organising antagonism against others. Unnecessary criticism, even when true. Deliberately annoying others, teasing or bullying.

Contempt
Scorn of another’s virtue, ability, shortcomings, or failings. Prejudice against those you consider inferior, or who consider us inferior, or who seem to threaten your security or position. Ridicule of persons, institutions or ideals.

COVETOUSNESS
The refusal to respect the integrity of other creatures, expressed in the inordinate accumulation of material things; in the use of other persons for your personal advantage; or in the quest for status, power or security at their expense.

Inordinate Ambition
Seeking status, power, influence, reputation, or possessions at the expense of the moral law, of other obligations, or of the rights of others. Ruthless or unfair competition. Putting self or family first. Conformity to standards you recognise as wrong or inadequate in order to get ahead. Intrigue or conspiracy for self-advancement.

Domination
Seeking to use or possess others. Over-protection of children; refusal to correct or punish lest you lose their affection; insistence that they conform to your ideal for them contrary to their own vocation. Imposing your will on others by force, guile, whining, or refusal to cooperate. Over-readiness to advise or command; abuse of authority. Patronising, pauperising, putting others under a debt of gratitude, or considering yourself ill-used when others. Selling your affection or compliance. Respect of persons, favouritism, partiality, flattery, fawning, or bribery to win support or affection. Refusing to uphold the truth to fulfil duties, to perform good acts, or to defend those wrongfully attacked, because you fear criticism or ridicule, or because you seek to gain the favour or approval of others. Leading, tempting or encouraging another to sin.

Avarice
Inordinate pursuit of wealth or material things. Theft, dishonesty, misrepresentation, or sharing in stolen goods. Cheating in business, taxes, school or games. Making worldly success the goal of your life or the standard for judging others.

Prodigality
Waste of natural resources or personal possessions. Extravagance or living beyond your income, to impress others or to maintain status. Failure to pay debts. Gambling more than you can afford to lose, or to win unearned profits. Unnecessary borrowing or carelessness with others. money. Spending on yourself of what is needed for the welfare of others.

Pretending to be poorer than you are
Undue protection of wealth or security. Selfish insistence on vested interests or on claimed rights. Refusal to support or help those who have a claim on us. Sponging on others. Stinginess. Failure to give due proportion of your income to Church and charity, or of your time and energy to good works. Failure to pay pledges promised to the Church or charities, when able to do so.

GLUTTONY
The overindulgence of natural appetites for food and drink, and by extension the excessive quest for pleasure or comfort.

Intemperance
Overindulgence in food, drink, smoking, or other physical pleasures. Fastidiousness, fussiness, demanding excessively high standards, or dilettantism. Condemnation of some material things or pleasures as evil in themselves, attempting to prohibit their use rather than their abuse.

Lack of Discipline
Negligence in keeping the days of fasting or abstinence, or failure to use other needed means of self-discipline. Neglect of bodily health. Not getting sufficient rest, recreation, exercise or wholesome nourishment. Failure to use or to cooperate with available medical care when ill. Use of sickness as a means of escape from responsibilities.

LUST
The misuse of sex for personal gratification, debasing it from the holy purpose for which God has given it to us.

Unchastity
Violation of the Church’s marriage laws. Lack of consideration for one’s partner in the use of the marital relationship. Refusal to fulfil the purpose of Holy Matrimony in the bringing forth and giving adequate care to children, or to take your full share in the responsibilities or work involved. Unfaithfulness to one’s spouse. Sexual indulgence outside matrimony, in thought or act, alone or with others.

Immodesty
Stimulation of sexual desire in others by word, dress,
or actions; or in one’s self by reading, pictures, or fantasies. Collecting or recounting dirty stories.

Prudery
Fear of sex or condemnation of it as evil in itself. Refusal to seek adequate sexual instruction or the attempt to prevent others from obtaining it. Stimulation of excessive and harmful curiosity by undue secrecy. Repression of sex.

Cruelty
Deliberate infliction of pain, mental or physical. Tormenting of animals.

SLOTH
The refusal to respond to your opportunities for growth, service or sacrifice.

Laziness
Indolence in performing spiritual, mental or physical duties, or neglect of family, business or social obligations or courtesies. Procrastination of disliked tasks. Busyness or triviality to avoid more important commitments. Devotion of excessive time to rest, recreation, amusement, television, or the like. Waste of employer’s time, or shoddy or inadequate work.

Indifference
Unconcern over injustice to others, especially that caused by currently accepted social standards; or unmindfulness of the suffering of the world. Failure to become adequately informed on both sides of contemporary issues or on the Christian principles involved. Neglect of duties to state or community. Failure to provide adequately for, or to treat justly those in your employ. Ignoring of needy, lonely or unpopular persons in your own or the parish family, or in the neighbourhood; or unwillingness to minister to them. Insufficient attention to the religious and other needs of your family. Failure to fulfil your obligation of Christian missionary witness, or to take a full and informed part to make the church’s unity and holiness a manifest reality on earth.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chive:
Thank you all for your advice. I made my first confession today. I had the choice of doing it face to face in the priest's study or kneeling next to him as he sat in a chair in the church. I didn't know which to choose so he decided to do it in the church so that his study didn't have any associations with it.

It was very scary and somewhat stressful but I'm so very glad that I've done it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by chive:
Thank you all for your advice. I made my first confession today.

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Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :
 
Thought I'd bump this up because it's Lent and therefore... "Confession Season."

I do "confess" that I still have not done a private confession this Lent. (Yes, I know I still have time.)
Should I be feeling guilty?
 

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Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChaliceGirl:
I do "confess" that I still have not done a private confession this Lent. (Yes, I know I still have time.) Should I be feeling guilty?

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