quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Does your church use it? When did you start? Do you like it? Do you notice the difference?

The Sundays after Pentecost introduce a choice of semi-continuous or thematic OT readings. Which do you use? Do you choose different ways at different times?

Have you come on any issues of consistency or coordination? If so, how have you handled them?

What particularly helpful resources or links have you found? Does your denomination have resources for using the RCL?

Etc....? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Does your church use it? When did you start? Do you like it? Do you notice the difference?

---

quote:

---

The Sundays after Pentecost introduce a choice of semi-continuous or thematic OT readings. Which do you use? Do you choose different ways at different times?

---

quote:

---

Have you come on any issues of consistency or coordination? If so, how have you handled them?

---

quote:

---

What particularly helpful resources or links have you found? Does your denomination have resources for using the RCL?

---

quote:

---

Etc....?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Does your church use it? When did you start? Do you like it? Do you notice the difference?

---

quote:

---

The Sundays after Pentecost introduce a choice of semi-continuous or thematic OT readings. Which do you use? Do you choose different ways at different times?

---

quote:

---

Have you come on any issues of consistency or coordination? If so, how have you handled them?

---

quote:

---

What particularly helpful resources or links have you found? Does your denomination have resources for using the RCL?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:
Anglo-Catholic parishes should choose the thematic series

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
For example, exactly what TEC changed in the Standard RCL for Episcopal use? Which Gospel readings differ substantively in the TEC RCL from the 1979 ECUSA BCP?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liturgy Queen:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:
Anglo-Catholic parishes should choose the thematic series

---

Why? In the Anglican Church of Canada, the thematic series is not authorized.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:

quote:

---

Have you come on any issues of consistency or coordination? If so, how have you handled them?

---

What do you mean? I certainly wouldn't suggest flip-flopping from the semi- to the thematic all the time. Anglo-Catholic parishes should choose the thematic series, and "evangelical" parishes of the same ilk as The Falls Church would do well to choose the semi-.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I was thinking more of the nitty-gritty "where can you look to be sure that all the Sunday resources are citing the same thing."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Our reading inserts come from Morehouse Publishing. I wonder if we will need to make a choice for which ones we order, or if they will contain the readings (and psalms) for both tracks.

---

• Gradual Psalms with A**eluia Verses and Tracts (RCL-appointed Psalms using the BCP79 Psalter. Verses and Tracts for the RCL Gospels. Check out the samples on the page to which I linked.)
• RCL Lectern Edition Cloth NRSV ($$$)
• RCL Lectern Edition Softcover NRSV ($$)
• RCL Pew edition NRSV ($) (Good size and price for home study use)
• RCL Gospel Book Leather NRSV ($$$$)
• RCL Gospel Book Cloth NRSV ($$$)
• The Passion Gospels set to chant (RCL NRSV) Download only

• Hymn Tune Psalter 1
• Hymn Tune Psalter 2
• Portland Psalter 1
• Portland Psalter 2

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Does anyone know of any resources that in specific detail address the coordination and comparison questions I mentioned above? For example, exactly what TEC changed in the Standard RCL for Episcopal use? Which Gospel readings differ substantively in the TEC RCL from the 1979 ECUSA BCP?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
For example, exactly what TEC changed in the Standard RCL for Episcopal use? Which Gospel readings differ substantively in the TEC RCL from the 1979 ECUSA BCP?

---

IIRC, most of the saintly days and non-Sunday occasions retain the BCP79 readings. I am not aware of a resource that breaks it down fully by verse, but I am not aware of a lot of things!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Choirboy:
I thought the RCL only had a Sunday Eucharistic lectionary?

---

Well, it has a lectionary for Sundays and Holy Days. Then, it has a supplementary daily lectionary, of which you are probably aware. It appears in Evangelical Lutheran Worship, and I believe it was published by Augsburg Fortress as a separate resource called Daily Readings or something like that. The readings are geared toward the Sunday lectionary texts. Thursday through Saturday prepare one to hear the Sunday readings. Monday through Wednesday allow one to reflect upon the Sunday readings. [Math-phobes avert your eyes now] Two readings are appointed per day, to reflect on the three Sunday readings. One Psalm is appointed for the Preparation days, and another is appointed for the Reflection days.

Sometimes the readings are very overt in their preparation or reflection (i.e. they cover the verses immediately before and/or after the Sunday reading). Other times the weekday readings are similar to the Sunday readings (i.e. if the Sunday OT reading is the Exodus Deliverance through the Red Sea, one of the preparatory readings may be Noah's Ark).

What does one read at the offices on Sunday if one is using this daily lectionary?

(When you find out the answer, do let me know! )
 

---

Posted by lukacs (# 11865) on :
 
Is there an RCL lectionary volume that employs the RSV rather than the NRSV?
 

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Posted by Scott Knitter (# 6278) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:
What does one read at the offices on Sunday if one is using this daily lectionary?

(When you find out the answer, do let me know! )

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scott Knitter:
I have a feeling there is still plenty of room in the ELCA world for Pastor Pfatteicher's Daily Prayer of the Church, the rich breviary he compiled using Lutheran Book of Worship materials. I don't think Evangelical Lutheran Worship addresses the needs of those who are committed to daily liturgical prayer on their own; its daily-prayer materials focus on daily prayer in common, and I think it comes close to assuming this will not be on a large scale or widespread, but occasional. So wherever one dips into the new daily lectionary, one is at least somewhat connected to the Sunday readings.

I gather the assumption is that the main Sunday service will preclude use of any daily office on Sunday.

Or maybe there will be an ancillary ELW resource that will give more daily-prayer guidance than the "core resource," the cranberry hymnal, gives.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:
I've tried on more than one occasion to encourage the creation of a comprehensive breviary to be a "star" in the "constellation" of ELW resources

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Henry Troup:
The Book of Alternative Services has a two-year lectionary, circa 1980, that isn't much used.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Padre:
... I don't remember being given the choice between thematic and semi-continuous here in the UMC. From what I'm looking at in the Book of Worship, it's semi-continuous.

***

My gripe with the RCL is the lack of daily readings. For those, I use the 1928 BCP and, more recently, a book by +Bishop Rueben P. Job that guides prayer and Scripture readings to fill in the gaps between Sundays and Holy Days.

---

This book will solve both of your problems, Padre. It has both semi-continuous and thematic readings for Ordinary Time after Pentecost and it has daily readings.

[ 04. March 2008, 14:54: Message edited by: Circuit Rider ]
 

---

Posted by Circuit Rider (# 13088) on :
 
Now to address the OP:

The UMC has adopted the RCL (semi-continuous) and encourages its pastors to use it, but we are under no obligation.

Personally I adopted the RCL for Year C beginning at Advent 2006 and it has been a wonderful experience. I have preached the Gospel text every Sunday to focus on the life and ministry of Jesus with my congregations. It has been life-changing for me.

In Ordinary Time I use the thematic lectionary, because I really think it helps for all elements of worship to go in the same direction. Our people are bombarded with too many messages all at once as it is. It helps if everything coordinates -- Scriptures, hymns, colors, etc., to drive home the point of what you are trying to say.

For many years I avoided the lectionary like the plague, but now I am a committed lectionary preacher. I will deviate if need and circumstance dictate, but so far that has occurred rarely. The texts have been amazingly timely from week to week.

The book I recommended to The Padre is a Godsend -- I highly recommend it.
 

---

Posted by scribbler (# 12268) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by lukacs:
It also takes us further down that slippery slope to a new US BCP, and no one wants to fight that battle.

---

I keep hoping that the Second Coming will make the otherwise inevitable BCP wars unnecessary, but it hasn't happened yet.

As far as the actual RCL goes, I like it. Not so much for the readings themselves, but because it provides continuity when I visit churches of other denominations--and a slightly less divided Body.
 

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Posted by Choirboy (# 9659) on :
 
If we really want to reunite the bulk of Christians under a common lectionary, it appears we all ought to adopt the Roman Catholic lectionary.
 

---

Posted by lukacs (# 11865) on :
 
Or, the traditional one-year lectionary, around which all manner of antiphonaries, breviaries, missals, etc. have been produced.
 

---

Posted by Choirboy (# 9659) on :
 
Well possibly, but it doesn't seem very many Christian bodies actually use it anymore.
 

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Posted by LostinChelsea (# 5305) on :
 
We use the RCL and I've chosen to use the semi-continuous OT readings. I can let one story go a few weeks, preaching on the Gospel all the while, and then do a sermon on the Old Testament; if folks have been in church, they'll have been following the story. That works for me.

Church Publishing, as others have pointed out, have published materials. We're currently using a large, inexpensive lectionary in soft cover. I don't like it, as it doesn't have the psalm text and won't repeat readings. That is, on a particular reading it may say "See Lent 3, Year A, page 47" or somesuch. Not much more useful than marking a Bible.

I've just purchased a lectern edition from [QUOTE] http://www.episcopal-ks.org/shepherd/smpress.html [/QUOTE. Everything's in order with full text. We're already using a Gospel book from them.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
The Padre, why do you leave the RCL for some seasons? What guides your choice of readings during those seasons?

I am just floored by the wealth of wonderful resources and uses people have shared. I hope this is as useful to other new adopters of the RCL as it is for me. Thank you, thank you.
 

---

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :
 
Some lower Protestant Shipmates have appeared on-thread since I was last here, so allow me to suggest another link:

Liturgies Online

It comes from the Uniting Church tradition in Australia. This is a great resource for those churches that like to have a different Call to Worship dialogue and Confession of Sin every single week.
 

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Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on :
 
We switched over before Advent, so we have been trying it out for awhile.

The only difficulty was with Children's Chapel, which uses a curriculum that was not in line with the RCL. It is now, so we are humming along in line with what is going on in church.

Although we didn't notice that much of a difference before, so it wasn't a big issue.
 

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Posted by beachlass (# 4979) on :
 
We use the RCL as well, and our hymnbook has an lectionary index in the back for worship planning.

Another RCL scripture reflection site is Out in Scripture . The reflections are focused on ministry with gay/lesbian communities, but I find it useful reflection (for rural ministry) in the mix with everything else.
 

---

Posted by The Padre (# 13100) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
The Padre, why do you leave the RCL for some seasons? What guides your choice of readings during those seasons?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lukacs:
Is there an RCL lectionary volume that employs the RSV rather than the NRSV?

---

 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Being Anglicans, we use it in its slightly tarted-up Common Worship form. But we also diverge from it if the service as some theme that seems to want a different reading - and in the last few years we've been diverging more and more.

Also we have occasional series of sermons on one book of the Bible or one passage, which RCL is very bad on - it darts around a lot and most of its readings are very short. We are haveing a mildy intermittent series on Nehemiah in one of our churches at the moment, and last year we had a series on the fruits of the spirit in our evening service.

What I don't like so much about the way we are doing things now is the increasing tendency to drop the readings that aren't being preached on. I want a Psalm and an Old Testament reading as well as the Gospel! It used to be the high church lot who just read the Gospel, you could rely on the evangelicals. But as we get ever fluffier, the Old Testament gets overlooked sometimes
 

---

Posted by Choirboy (# 9659) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
What I don't like so much about the way we are doing things now is the increasing tendency to drop the readings that aren't being preached on. I want a Psalm and an Old Testament reading as well as the Gospel! It used to be the high church lot who just read the Gospel, you could rely on the evangelicals. But as we get ever fluffier, the Old Testament gets overlooked sometimes.

---

Of course this gets a bit difficult unless one is using the thematic track of the RCL. In our Anglo-Catholic shack, all three readings get a look in every week (plus often the psalm and the collect of the day, and sometimes some of the hymns for good measure). Of course, that's much easier since we use the ECUSA BCP lectionary; I'd imagine the same ought to be true of the RCL thematic option?

[ETA added quote due to page break]

[ 05. March 2008, 15:27: Message edited by: Choirboy ]
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
I strongly disapprove of the thematic readings.

The semi-continuous ones allow the Hebrew Scriptures to speak for themselves and I can preach on the OT lesson in its own right.

The thematic ones mean that people tend to see Judaism only in the light of Christianity. A strong example was in the C of E Alternative Service Book 1980 where Jesus forgiving the woman taken in adultery was themed with a woman in the OT being stoned to death for picking up sticks. Thus the caricature is that Judaism is a religion of law and Christianity is a religion of grace.

I also dislike Eastertide for omitting all OT lessons (you get them all in one gulp at the Easter Vigil, of course - then nothing until Pentecost).
 

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Posted by Liturgy Queen (# 11596) on :
 
Oh, Lord, not again; Leo Fidei Judiae Defensor.

If the Old Covenant is all-sufficient, then what in heck are we bothering with? I'm beginning to smell the dung, not of a dead horse, but of a hobby horse.

The fact of the matter is that we do read the Old Testament in light of the New. If we didn't, we would be Jews.

[ 05. March 2008, 21:25: Message edited by: Liturgy Queen ]
 

---

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Read Paul in Romans 9-11 about God being faithful to his covenant to the Jewish people.

Why is it that if one mentions Judaism or Islam on The Ship that bpeople start to attack? Is there some insecurity?
 

---

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liturgy Queen:
Oh, Lord, not again; Leo Fidei Judiae Defensor.

If the Old Covenant is all-sufficient, then what in heck are we bothering with? I'm beginning to smell the dung, not of a dead horse, but of a hobby horse.

The fact of the matter is that we do read the Old Testament in light of the New. If we didn't, we would be Jews.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
If you read OT in the light of the new then you have not read and digested Nostra Aetate - strong catholic teaching is clear [on] this[.]

---

quote:

---

In company with the Prophets and the same Apostle, the Church awaits that day, known to God alone, on which all peoples will address the Lord in a single voice and "serve him shoulder to shoulder"

---

quote:

---

Thus the Church of Christ acknowledges that, according to God's saving design, the beginnings of her faith and her election are found already among the Patriarchs, Moses and the prophets. She professes that all who believe in Christ-Abraham's sons according to faith -are included in the same Patriarch's call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church is mysteriously foreshadowed by the chosen people's exodus from the land of bondage.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I'm interested in sharing experiences, opinions, and knowledge of the Revised Common Lectionary. Here is a brief explanation of the RCL.

Does your church use it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lukacs:

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
If you read OT in the light of the new then you have not read and digested Nostra Aetate - strong catholic teaching is clear [on] this[.]

---

Can you cite a specific passage in NA to justify this understanding?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
(I share the hesitation about "Old Testament," but Hebrew Scriptures doesn't really work either, because…well…some of them are Greek.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
I understand what you are trying to say. I understand the importance of not regarding the Jewish people as rejected by God, or the Old Covenant as not having been revoked. I occasionally preach about the need to beware of knocking the Pharisees completely, as if they had no love of God in them.

However, that does not equate with the position you have adopted and then tried to ascribe to the Catholic Church and the Second Vatican Council. The Catholic Church does not teach that the Scriptures of the Old Testament cannot be read in the light of the New. The Lectionary emphasises this point by having the OT reading relating to the Gospel. That is authentic Catholic teaching. You need to look more deeply at Dei Verbum and precisely that quote you made: the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are the same God.

As to joined up thinking, I'm not sure you appreciate how the Catholic Church works. Everything of significance coming from a Vatican dicastery has to pass through the CDF to make sure there are no inconsistencies. Documents and statements are frequently sent back to their originators for correction - including liturgical ones. Your argument about the lectionary having somehow bypassed the Council documents and not been influenced by them does not hold water. The new lectionary was drawn up precisely in the light of Dei Verbum.

So basically I am saying - you have pushed the argument too far in the opposite direction and sought validation from sources which do not support your contention.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:
I like having extra-long gospel readings in the lead up to Holy Week, although I'm not quite sure I can articulate why. Possibly, it's just to signal that we're moving into a particularly special time. Also, the three stories we have on these three weeks are such an important part of the RCIA* that it would seem a shame to abridge them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
Why does the RCL think that long readings are more edifying than shorter ones?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
Why does the RCL think that long readings are more edifying than shorter ones? In Lectio Divina it is better to chew over a phrase than to read loads.

---

quote:

---

What I don't like so much about the way we are doing things now is the increasing tendency to drop the readings that aren't being preached on. I want a Psalm and an Old Testament reading as well as the Gospel! It used to be the high church lot who just read the Gospel, you could rely on the evangelicals. But as we get ever fluffier, the Old Testament gets overlooked sometimes [Frown]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
Why does the RCL think that long readings are more edifying than shorter ones? In Lectio Divina it is better to chew over a phrase than to read loads.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Choirboy:
The long lessons for Year A in Lent are not just an RCL thing. We have had exactly the same gospels using the ECUSA '79 BCP lectionary.

---

• Lent 1: Matthew 4:1-11 -- temptation in the Wilderness
• Lent 2: John 3:1-17 -- Nicodemus and born again
• Lent 3: John 4:5-26(27-38)39-42 -- Samaritan woman at the well and living water
• Lent 4: John 9:1-13(14-27)28-38 -- healing blind man
• Lent 5: John 11:(1-17)18-44 -- raising of Lazarus

• Lent 1: Matthew 4:1-11
• Lent 2: John 3:1-17 (*)
• Lent 3: John 4:5-42
• Lent 4: John 9:1-41
• Lent 5: John 11:1-45

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Because, in the case of the last few Sundays at least, the alternative is to skip the stories altogether. Do you really want people going through church year after year and never hear the stories of Lazarus or the man born blind read and expounded? There's no sensible way of including these passages except in their entirety.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Do you really mean in their entire entirety, as the RCL has? Or would reading the BCP version, omitting the optional passages, be sufficient?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Still preaching the lectionary, not something else. Setting passages in context, comparing with the parallel story from other Gospels, and, yes, mentioning parts in the omitted passages all to me are still following the Lectionary. (The omitted internal parts at least will be printed in people's readings inserts; we don't have pew Bibles.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Choirboy:
The long lessons for Year A in Lent are not just an RCL thing. We have had exactly the same gospels using the ECUSA '79 BCP lectionary.

---

Not exactly. For the third, fourth and fifth Sundays in Lent the RCL includes as required passages that were marked optional in the BCP. For Lent 4 and 5 it also adds a verse or three at the end of the passage.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liturgy Queen:
How lovely! Is your parish on the Continuum, Father, or a part of ECUSA?

---

We're on the Continuum, specifically the APCK. But yes, we think it's lovely, anyway.
 

---

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :
 
First, I'm wondering if anybody knows which track the Episcopal Sunday Readings inserts will take. Will a choice be given?

Second, if anybody is interested in RCL resources from Church Publishing, make sure you are signed up to receive the e-mail ads from them. I just received one today advertising 25% off on orders of $50 or more for certain RCL purchases. That makes quite a difference when one is buying a $200 Book of Gospels.
 

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Posted by Brian M (# 11865) on :
 
Can anyone, anyone at all, tell me if the RCL Sunday lectionary is available in RSV (not NRSV) translation or if ECUSA expects everyone to switch to NRSV?
 

---

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brian M:
Can anyone, anyone at all, tell me if the RCL Sunday lectionary is available in RSV (not NRSV) translation or if ECUSA expects everyone to switch to NRSV?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:
If a lectionary [book] were published for the RCL using the NRSV

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liturgy Queen:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:
Anglo-Catholic parishes should choose the thematic series

---

Why? In the Anglican Church of Canada, the thematic series is not authorized.

---

It is more Romish in that the typological connection is made between OT and Gospel. This is the way the Roman Catholic Lectionary for Mass works.

The semi-continuous option helps to make the RCL appeal more to Bible-in-a-year lower Protestant parishes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Liturgy Queen:
Oh, Lord, not again; Leo Fidei Judiae Defensor.

If the Old Covenant is all-sufficient, then what in heck are we bothering with? I'm beginning to smell the dung, not of a dead horse, but of a hobby horse.

The fact of the matter is that we do read the Old Testament in light of the New. If we didn't, we would be Jews.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Quam Dilecta:
In my parish church in Boston, Massachusetts, we used the same readings as Trinity, Wall Street.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:
You didn't have Romans 8 like we did? That, with the Deut and the Gospel make a perfect trio for getting into salvation by faith vs. works. We got a neat summary of the Catholic / Lutheran joint declaration on justification this morning!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HenryT:
I guess we are "semi-continuous", as we a) had the Genesis reading and b) the additional copies that our rector prepared had only the Genesis readings. It's the rector's choice.

We use pre-printed sheets from the Anglican Church of Canada; but now we have the text on CD and a license to print our own, as well.

---

quote:

---

MartinL asked:
Well, Shippies, now that Ordinary Time is upon us, which track of the RCL has the Episcopal Church been using?

---

quote:

---

Already there appears to be an Anglo-Catholic and Evangelical divide strengthening even more in the Episcopal Church.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LostinChelsea:
?????? My goodness, don't read too much into a church's decision on which OT selection to use in its liturgy! And if you still think that's a good idea, a two-church analysis won't get you very far. [Standard grad school joke: "My N is bigger than your N."]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LQ:
As I've stated earlier, the thematic track is not authorized for use in the Anglican Church of Canada.

---

quote:

---

REVISED COMMON LECTIONARY: NEW PRAYER BOOK PAGES! Now available for free download here -- these are the newly designed pages that replace pages 889-926 of the Book of Common Prayer as each of the many editions of Prayer Book are scheduled for reprinting. You may download, print, and duplicate as many copies as you need for your congregation or personal use.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LQ:
Well, the Prayer Book Eucharistic lectionary (completely thematic, no Old Testament readings most Sundays) is still authorized, albeit strongly discouraged.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LQ:
Well, the Prayer Book Eucharistic lectionary (completely thematic, no Old Testament readings most Sundays) is still authorized, albeit strongly discouraged.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin L:
First, how is the RCL working out for TEC churches? Which track have you been using?

---

We haven't...we're on the BCP 1979 lectionary as before. Not sure why, other than lack of enthusiasm for the change.

A priest I know occasionally jokes about an acquaintance of his who retired from active ministry when the 1979 BCP lectionary rendered his one-year file of sermons obsolete.

But of course the RCL isn't that monumental a change, especially in the Gospels.
 

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Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :
 
What is the difference between the two lectionaries, and that of Mother Rome? There is talk around many a water cooler that all mainliners including the RCC use the same lectionary. I doubt it, but am too lazy too look it up. We use the one almost like the CofE does now, which is I understand, ALMOST the RCL, which is ALMOST like the Roman lectionary, on which is based TECs, which is also ALMOST like Romes.

Can anyone shed some light on the differnces, (preferably without links to Excel type charts and table pages, please)
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
There are only a few changes in Episcopal RCL ("ERCL") from source common RCL ("plain RCL"). I'm going by memory here; will see if I can find my notes and write this up properly.

Basically, very few changes, and the only notable difference is around Christmas:

• different choices on Christmas I and II: IIRC, on Christmas I and II, ERCL read more of the Christmas Gospel readings, IIRC because TEC will get to read the Magi on Epiphany, whereas plain RCL crams Magi into Christmas and neglects Epiphany;
• a few options eliminated on other Sundays to require remaining readings corresponding Episcopal observances to be read;
• some Sunday names adjusted to Episcopal Sunday names;
• Psalm verses cited to correspond to BCP (1979 ECUSA) psalter numbering instead of NRSV psalter;
• some readings preserved for observances that plain RCL doesn't have at all (e.g. IIRC weekdays after Easter, and a few others).

• a few options eliminated on other Sundays to require remaining readings corresponding to Episcopal observances to be read;

• some readings preserved for observances that plain RCL doesn't have at all (e.g. IIRC weekdays after Easter, and a few others).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:
The main Roman-RCL differences I've noticed are that

1) We don't have two separate tracks for the first reading: thematic all the way.
2) Our readings are often shorter.
3) There are more differences on more major feasts.

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Exactly, and it should be noted that the RCL offers an optional OT+Psalm to use in place of any apocryphal/deuterocanonical texts. Many places that use RCL still don't use readings from books like Sirach and Wisdom. There is no way to avoid those readings in the RC Lectionary for Mass.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
My reason for bumping up this thread is that we are rerunning the debate of continuous verses related OT readings in this benefice. I seem to be fighting a losing battle on behalf of the continuous track so am interested in other views (particularly if you are on my side!)

The RCC follows the related readings (Luther called the RCC’s use of the OT ‘Romish taint’ - Luther's Works: Liturgy and Hymns. American Edition. Helmut T. Lehmann, ed. Philadelphia: Fortress Press. 1965. vol. 53. p. 23f.) but I think that Methodists (if circuit preachers choose to follow any lectionary) and Lutherans do continuous. Here, I am very protestant and follow Cranmer’s principle (shown in his daily office lectionary but not his Communion one – he expected people to attend Morning Prayer and the Litany as well as Holy Communion) of reading scripture sequentially. Now that many churchgoers do not follow the excellent practice of daily Bible reading, it is likely that they only time they encounter any scripture is during the eucharist.

The themed approach presents a packaged faith which smooths away the tensions between the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures. This approach arguably makes light of God’s revelation to the Jews and robs it of its integrity, making of it something preliminary and incomplete.

Using the OT merely to illustrate the NT means that we miss the great sweep of history. It is interesting that the black-led churches have opposed themed readings because of their more politically-aware hermenuetic.

The NT, Matthew in particular, twist OT passages to fit their message – not something we should continue to do.

S. Paul seems to have supported some sort of lectio continua, - from a specific book for the church year: in 1 Thessalonians 5:27 and Colossians 4:16 where he asks that his epistles be read in the churches. Until at least 125CE the earliest Christians were Jews or gentile converts who followed the synagogue pattern where the Torah was (and still is) read as lectio continua, starting and ending with the festival of Simchat Torah.
 

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Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :
 
US Lutherans actually use the thematic track. Canadian Lutherans (as well as Anglicans) use the continuous. Since we US and Canadian Lutherans share a publishing house, our bound lectionary contains both tracks. I believe many European Lutherans are still using their 1-year lectionaries.

I've grown to appreciate the thematic for the reason you mention: it helps put the Gospel in context. In many Lutheran churches there is a bit of a Pietist strain that occasionally has been taken to the point of "works righteousness," a no-no in Lutheranism. When a congregation gets too bogged down in Old Testament readings without, as Luther cautioned, looking through the lens of the Gospel, it is possible to become doctrinally legalistic. For our own history and cultural situation, which is undoubtedly different from your own, leo, the thematic works a bit better for us. I'm glad that we can have the Old Testament and longer Psalm (instead of the old Epistle-Gradual-Alleluia/Tract-Gospel pattern), but I wouldn't want to take the chance of lengthy Old Testament sermon series about shalts and shalt nots. Ideally, I'd like to see everybody doing Daily Office with continuous readings, but the chances of that are slim to none. My own denom has even done away with that: we use an RCL daily supplement that keys daily readings to those of the nearest Sunday.

Of course, there should be absolutely no difference in Advent and Christmas, where the readings are always thematic. Semi-continuous OT only occurs during Ordinary Time.
 

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Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 
Too many churches, at least around here, seem to have adopted the Marcionite approach in ditching the OT altogether.

I can see Leo's point, but devotionally the 'continuous' track doesn't work for me. Also, the RCL – and even more so, C of E adaptations of it – have mucked around with the common lectionary too much: one of its major advantages should be that we and our Catholic friends can read the same scriptures together.

Interesting to know that US Lutherans have adopted the RCL. Swedish Lutherans still seem to be using their own. It's a three-year cycle but bears no relationship to RCL. Does anyone happen to know if it's their own invention or an earlier ecumenical effort?
 

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Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :
 
We have been on the RCL bandwagon for a long time (10 years? It seems like 10 years.)

The RCL actually covers a healthy dose of Old Testament over the course of three years. The daily version my denom offers does cover all books in the OT. (Not that I'm saying anybody uses it other than for private devotion, though. )
 

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