Thread: Circus: New Mafia game: Don Cannelloni's Birthday Party Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
It's a beautiful summer morning as the sun rises over the uptown house of Mr Cannelloni, the prominent passata importer and completely legitimate businessman. The day is busy, for it is Mr Cannelloni's birthday and many distinguished guests are expected, including the mayor, councilmen, members of the judiciary, the district attorney, and the commissioner of police. Caterers are running around taking delivery of ingredients. Contractors are putting up marquees on the extensive lawns, paid for entirely from legal tomato sauce and in no way paid for by the proceeds of organised crime. Mr Cannelloni is very clear about this. He got very angry when a journalist, Mr A Cusser, made repeated unfounded allegations, although he forgave him after his unfortunate freak accident involving a tommy gun and sent flowers to the funeral.

Mr Cannelloni's secretary, Mr Grigio, is opening the many cards and letters conveying best wishes. But one postcard is unusual. It has been composed by cutting and pasting newspaper letters:

DOn CaNneLLOni: Your cRimes haVe gOne on lONG Enough. TODAY YOU and your Henchmen meet JUSTiCE! sIGNed: Honest CItiZens

Mr Grigio frowned. He had heard of the Honest Citizens as a secretive vigilante group through one of Don Cannelloni's contacts in the police department. He wouldn't bother Don Cannelloni about this, but it might be best, he thought, to warn some of Don Cannelloni's more trusted employees.

****

It's been five or six months since the last mafia game. Any takers?
This will be fairly vanilla. Players take the role of Don Cannelloni's mafiosi, who have been infiltrated by the murderous Honest Citizens. Additional roles to be decided.

[ 12. February 2012, 02:21: Message edited by: AristonAstuanax ]
 

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Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
I need some time too cook up my Legitimate Businessman persona, but I'm in.
I do like working for the bad guys, don't you?
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Judge Leah Rossi, High Court Justice, is consulting her formidable security detail about the party. She's received some rather alarming threats since she sentenced that mafia boss to three life sentences. Cleaning the mob up seems to be going pretty well, but there are complaints that's it's not going anywhere near fast enough.

What a mess. Yes, a couple of plainclothes officers might be for the best.

(yippppeeeeeeeee I love this game)
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'm in. Currently thinking about a character.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Harry Tierri refiled the accounts he had been working on. The public ones went into the filing cabinet and the rest went into different hiding places within hiding places, depending on who they were meant to be hidden from. It's a big job keeping six sets of accounts for one business. Finally, the fake secret ones (designed to keep the cops thinking they new were the real secret ones where) were stored in the most obvious hiding place in the room and Tierri was ready for his next task: to decide which of Don Cannelloni's wills should be shown to whom...
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Donald Carlozzini, a supply teacher at the local primary schools and, unknown to his colleagues, a Cosa Nostra wannabe, chatted up a beautiful brunette in the teachers' lounge. He had no idea of the veracity of her uncle Mr. Cannellonni's mob connections, only knowing that the local Italian grocery store owner was a mutual acquaintance. Miss Cannelloni was ostensibly the school nurse, but sometimes took over lectures for the health and science teacher. He was hoping for a date with her on the weekend.
 

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Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Allesandro Literati's eponymous store in the warehouse district was a well-known draw for gourmands and epicures from all parts of town; the well-publicised mob sting last month had certainly helped business. Nothing like a bit of scandal to help business, especially when it got your shop's signage above the fold of page A-1!

Not, of course, that the feds had gotten anyone that wasn't going to get got anyway. Alimentari Literati was still just as much a "legitimate" front for the mob as it ever was; the fact that sacrificing a traitor lead the cops off the right path just meant two birds got nailed with one well-placed shotgun blast. It wasn't like the local men in blue didn't know that something shady was going on in Literati's back room—most of them had been in it to purchase contraband alcohol at one time or another! For being in a dry county, the shop sure sold a lot of wine . . .
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Mr Grigio was looking at the employees list. A few people had reported in, but there were plenty of gaps left.

***

Roll up! Roll up! Still lots of spaces to join the mafia. This time round, mafia membership is guaranteed!
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
OOC: Do you think it might help if the thread title was edited to make it a little more obvious this is a mafia game?
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Might do. Whom do we have to bribe?
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Will that do?

iF, Circus Host

[ 09. September 2011, 20:54: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]
 

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Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Dafyd:
Might do. Whom do we have to bribe?

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quote:

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Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
We're the MAFIA! We don't do bribes around here—you pay, or your legs break!

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That's old-fashioned. These days, we introduce them to bribes and the highlife. Then to girls/boys. Then to compromising photographs.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
<furiously takes notes for future prosecutions>

[I haven't decided yet if Judge Rossi is corrupt. After all, what better way to get rid of rival gangs? But possibly I am a judge of outstanding probity who's mucho pissed off about vigilantes muscling in on my patch. Time will tell, I suppose. I never really get to know my mafia characters until the game gets going.]
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Mr Grigio and, we presume, the Honest Citizens believe Mr Rossi is one of the mafia. Otherwise, I don't see that it matters for present purposes.
 

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Posted by Chelley (# 11322) on :
 
Dahlia Chelley the local florist stood at the shop window surveying the rushing of people as they went about their day. At intervals the old-fashioned bell would ring over the door and she would turn from her spot at the window to smile and greet a customer.
Then she would return to tending and arranging the blooms that would be delivered all around town...
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Dafyd:
Mr Grigio and, we presume, the Honest Citizens believe Mr Rossi is one of the mafia. Otherwise, I don't see that it matters for present purposes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Who is this Mr. Rossi? Can you not read? Leah is a girl's name!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dafyd:
Belated response to any email question (sorry, I don't check email as often as the Ship): this is set whenever the Godfather is set, which I believe is around nineteen fifty.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dafyd:

Anyway, you have until Monday morning (UK time) to cast your votes. If you want an extension, I will listen. On Monday morning night will fall.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chelley:
Or are we starting with a lynching this time?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dafyd:

(Also, as should be clear by now mafiosos are citizens and Honest Citizens are mafia. If you're confused about which way round you are ask me in private.)

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Oh dear... in the old days citizens were good (except for their lynching tendencies!) and mafia/mafiosos were bad and killed people at night. So I'm still not sure which are which? Sorry!
Thought I'd ask here for the general clarification and then will check whether Dahlia's a goody or a baddy!
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
The scenario, specific to this game, is that you're all working for (the late) Don Cannelloni the mob boss, and you've been infiltrated by a couple of vigilante killers who want to bump you all off because the police won't do it.

I bolded the role names (ie what the role's called in other games of mafia) in the pm. Also, if you're one of the killers, I will have referred to you as an Honest Citizen. And also I'll have told you who your accomplice or accomplices are.
There are no masons, so if I've named somebody else in the pm that means you're a killer. And if I haven't, then you're not.

[ 15. September 2011, 18:26: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I vote for not lynching, as in previous mafia plays I have been assassinated on the first day. Let's give everybody a chance to play a bit, shall we?
 

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Posted by Chelley (# 11322) on :
 
I get it now... there are bad-goodies and good-baddies and some other hangers-on who can do special things in the night! (That wasn't meant to sound as dodgy as it did!).

I will now get into character... and go and arrange the flowers!
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Can we have votes in bold please? This means that I count all the votes, and also I don't confuse speculating or nominating with voting. I make that an actual vote for no lynching from Sir Kevin, but correct me if I'm wrong.

I've just realised I haven't formally announced a nomination phase. I'll open a separate nomination phase if I'm asked to do so.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Judge Rossi is most displeased. Non-judiciary persons taking matters into their own hands is most unacceptable. If one wishes to do away with one’s mafia rivals, there is a perfectly acceptable court system for that. Non-mafia types should keep out of it altogether, of course.

[OOC: I know not everyone’s introduced their character yet, but I won’t get to a computer at all until at least very late tomorrow evening and I know you’d miss my incisive analysis if it wasn’t here So I’m going to throw a couple of thoughts out already]

Apparently it’s going to be mayhem hunting down those filthy infiltrators. Even without a majority, someone’s going down. This looks like it’s going to be a rather unpredictable situation to me. Something I’m not sure about is whether there ought to be many nominations or few. I can see advantages to both arguments. Few nominations and it’s less likely that one of them will be an infiltrator, many, and it only takes a couple of votes for someone to get offed which it might be quite easy for the infiltrators to swing.

Voting for no lynching sounds like the way to go – it’s the only way to ensure no one gets lunched* in this situation. HOWEVER we must also factor in the hitman. Voting against a lynching doesn’t prevent a death, but it means that the killing is carried out by a lone individual, not by majority decision. Unless Mary Joseph Jesus and all the little angels (we are a Catholic mafia, right?) really don’t like us, I can’t imagine we have more than three traitors among us. Depending on how good their nose is, that means a hitman has at best a one in 3.3 chance (or one in 5 if there’s only 2) of getting a hit on target. They are much more likely to miss. Consequently, if someone’s going to die, I’d rather it was done in public by everyone. This provides more useful information than letting the hitman take a potshot. So on the whole I think we need to lynch. A blind lynch is better for the majority than a blind vigilante killing, ISTM.

*y’know what, I’m leaving that typo there – we’re a pretty civilised mob, aren’t we? I mean, we’ll give you a nice meal before we fit the concrete boots
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Antonio Eliabeone sat in a corner sharpening his favourite knife, and occasionally scowling at others. Few of them met his gaze. Few people ever met his gaze. Partly, that is because of his reputation – he is one of the Don’s most feared henchmen – but mostly it is due to his height. At a little over three foot six, it is rare for anyone to look him in the face. And those that do look too closely at the surly, ugly, and psychotically violent little man often regret it.

He knew all the names they call him, all the sniggers and the jokes. And the stories. He knew all the stories, too. How he once spent twelve hours hiding in Don Vermicelli’s sideboard before stabbing the rival boss in the groin as he re-filled his wine glass. The time when, at a nod from Cannelloni he had placed a crate behind his traitorous lieutenant Alberto Nervi, and then nimbly hopped up on it to garrotte him. How he had cut out the thigh bones of some whore who had mocked his lack of stature...

Antonio grinned. The stories sometimes wrote themselves. Oh, the Vermicelli one was true enough, but he had quite sensibly shot Nervi through the base of the spine, not buggered around trying to throttle a man who towered four feet above him. And when he used whores, it was to forget that sort of shit, not add to it. But it never hurt to be feared, and the occasional act of senseless and sickening brutality, once or twice in a year, say, was usually enough to ensure that Eliabeone was known as a man not to fuck with.

Truth be told, though, he was scared. Because there was one story that everyone told. They told it, every time they spoke of him. ‘Don Cannelloni’, they said, ‘is the only man who can control Antonio Eliabeone, the only man he has ever feared’. And now, the Don was dead. Revenge would be expected. He had to take the killer on, and the killer would know it. If not..if not, they would whisper that the dwarfish enforcer had gone soft. And then they would laugh at him. Well that wasn’t going to happen. Never again.

Trouble was, he had no idea who was responsible. There were no clues, no indications of guilt. There was nothing for it but to make a start, though. Eliabeone thought carefully. “Might as well start with someone I hate, then” he muttered. Problem with that was there were just so fucking many of them.


[editted so as not to bold my own name. Antonio is a nutter, but not that much of one)

[ 15. September 2011, 20:53: Message edited by: Eliab ]
 

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Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Senonero felt homesick but he was glad that this mad mob had assembled in a library. He immersed himself in a book on mountain sheep farming.

He understood the everybody-is-a-baddie-but-some-are-good-baddies concept well enough but had not kept count of the characters or even the numbers. But he knew that even in a group of Italians there are bound to be one or two very eager busy bees. So, IF anyone has gone to the trouble of privately making a list of real names and characters, would they post it? If not Senonero will just keep guessing away happily.

Seeing he had to hit the "back" key just to look up his own role's name, i.e. he has no clue, he votes no lynching.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Bernardo had his studio at the far end of the garden. His works were the finest ever commissioned by an inhuman crook with near complete power in his region. He was widely admired and respected for this, yet few people ever came by. His ingenuity and inventiveness was considered to have taken a dangerous path, and not just to his enemies. On occasion his outbursts of creativity and roof turned out to be useful in some practical application, however, and it was for this purpose Don Cannelloni kept him as 'artist in residence'.

Bernardo had entered the library for some books he needed for a new project, but found a group of people discussing what to do. Bernardo chose to listen, for now. More voices needed to be heard. In the meantime, there was a new translation of Alfred Nobel's Cook Book that he wanted to have a look at.

ETA: The name Bernardo unbolded after model of Antonio.

[ 15. September 2011, 21:19: Message edited by: JFH ]
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Carlozzinni sat in his spacious flat and was preparing to read his favourite Shakespeare play when the phone rang. He was summoned to the back room of his favourite restaurant, so he went to the garage, put on his helmet and rode off on his Ducati Monster.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Harry pondered and jotted some figures on the back of a napkin. He was convinced it was in our interests to lynch someone today -- waiting lets the honest citizens get the first shot in, lynching is the only chance to take a strike at them first. Who though?
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sylvander:
So, IF anyone has gone to the trouble of privately making a list of real names and characters, would they post it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dafyd:
Anyway, you have until Monday morning (UK time) to cast your votes. If you want an extension, I will listen. On Monday morning night will fall.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:
[OOC]Do I understand that rightly to mean that as good mafiosi we are ignoring the tedious tradition of accusation, defence, analysis and debate, and going straight to the real business of voting on who to kill?

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Yes, as a result of sheer negligence on the part of the administrator, who'd forgotten that a nomination phase was part of the usual order of things.
At the moment, I'm just letting all of you muddle along without a clear separation because I trust all of you to sort it out, but if any one expresses a desire for a nomination phase, by say tomorrow morning, you can have one.

My intent at the moment is to count things as votes if they are in bold type. I may count votes if they are in plain type and are unambiguously votes, but the management accepts no liability if the management doesn't notice them.
Unless I'm asked to set up a formal nomination phase, the two of you who've already voted prior to this notice may retract your votes in bold within the next twenty four hours should you so wish. If you haven't done so within the next twenty four hours they'll stand. If someone asks me to set up a formal nomination phase then they're off automatically.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Amico was rather overwhelmed by events. As he stood in the back corner of the room listening to the conversation, his mind was racing with all manner of thoughts. What should he do? Lie low for a bit, perhaps? Run away and pretend this was all a bad dream?

No! He was a man, a citizen of this good town, and he should bear his part of the responsibility for clearing up this situation. So something must be done. But what? A lynching might give good evidence on which to base more reasoned thought in the future. The only question was who should be fed to the fishes...
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
A lynching where? BL's mind raced through the possibilities. Outside or in? How many chairs would be needed for the viewing? Should she send orders to the cigar girls and waiters to circulate with cocktails and canapes? And the bar tent needed to be ready with lots of alcohol for the crowd who no doubt would linger late and discuss much.

But who would they lynch? The shady singer or that silly man riding his Ducati around the library? The fumes would put everyone off their food, she thought darkly. She didn't mind if Carlozinni was strung up.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Well, evidence so far is pretty thin on the ground, which is unfortunate. Usually by time I send people down I have a pretty hefty file on them… nonetheless one does the best with what one’s got.

As I already said, voting for no lynching doesn’t stop anyone getting killed, it just means that the killers can hide in a crowd of no lynching votes and then wait for the hitman to do their dirty work for them. There is a small risk that s/he will hit one of them, but no higher than the risk of one of them getting killed in a blind lynch, ISTM. So I think voting for no lynching is either suspicious or at least quite stupid. On that basis I could go for Carlozzini as well, but it’s true that Sir Kevin does always get killed first every time he plays this game (make up your own back story ) and I can see why he’d be ticked off about it. In the event that he is a killer, he must have at least one accomplice anyway so we can always come back for him later.

Consequently I am going to go for the other no lynching vote (which also looks like a bleeding heart to me and we’re supposed to be vicious mafia killers) and vote to off Silvio Senonero. Carlozzini voted for no lynching straight away and Senonero did it after I’d already pointed out why it was a bad idea. Also his name’s too hard to spell.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Bernardo contemplated what picture to make of this... It seemed a promising "last supper" motif, twelve people gathered around a personification of the "God-father" idea. Yet there was something far too Nietzschean about this too; God-father is dead.

The reasoning son the field were to either skip a murder opportunity, which had sometimes been the Don's policy, or to seize it to see what came out of it, which had also been proven to work at times, at least in theory. Ah, sweet theory...

In theory, anyone could be aligned with those horrific honest citizens. In theory, they could say or do anything and lead this group of not too intellectually gifted people down any smoky alley; had they fooled Don Cannelloni, anyone could be fooled.

The Judge seemed to be taking a lead in the processing. She practically defended Carlozzini, and set the hounds on Senonero.
Both Carlozzini and Senonero were passivists so far. Understandable yet implying something. Something told Bernardo that Senonero was the kind of character who would usually back down from reasonless killings, which in itself was no crime - some just don't have what it takes, so it wasn't necessarily implying anything at all.

Antonio was vicious as always. Ready to kill in no time, and suggested someone seemingly at random. However, it was hard to see why one should follow his lead in taking out Carlozzini. "Silent dynamite's the most dangerous," Bernardo thought, "and Carlozzini's not the most quiet as of yet. So why go for him right now?"

As for now, Judge Rossi and Antonio seemed to take the lead and divide on who to take out. Leadership could be good, but there was also a risk worth considering that Leah Rossi and Antonio might be working together to take out all the rest. In fact, if they were, this seems precisely the way they would do it - dividing from the start, getting some supporters each, thus keeping each other alive while taking out the rest, one by one. It would sure be sinister enough for Antonio, and cunning enough for Rossi. Bernardo wasn't suggesting anything though, just pointing to one possibility of the many.

But the painting has a wide spectrum of dark colours. Who knows what to do?

Bernardo decided to vote for a lynching of someone - he had some new devices to try out for this purpose, and also that might reveal more than a dark and deadly night would - but he didn't know who should be taken out. Senonero seemed talkative. Carlozzini seemed to deserve to stay alive for a little while longer.

Bernardo decided to wait to give Carlozzini a chance to get talky and reasoning. That was the ticket to live, in his view.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Harry reviewed his ledger:

TESS 2 votes
Carlozzini 2 votes
Serano 1 vote
Left to vote: 6

He also thought Bernardo's reasoning seemed pretty sound. A lynching gave a chance to hit one of the undesirables and we can't afford to miss such chances. In general, a preference towards nobbling people who aren't contributing reasoning also makes sense -- if they're Honest Citizens, talkers will give themselves away in their subterfuge; if they're faithful to the family, they'll be helpful.

Unfortunately, Harry couldn't sit around in the library pondering all day -- he did have an audit that had to be filed that needed work. So, he decided to go work on his accounts and come back when the strange fast moving clock that hovered above his words had advanced 24 hours. Then, he would vote to ensure lynching if that was necessary, or for the person displaying the least reasoning if it wasn't.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Donald Carlozzinni got word of a death threat and decided to become proactive. He votes for Serrano. "Kill or be killed!" is his motto for now. He finishes his dinner ant then decides to take a circuitous route back to his flat. The dooman told him he had had a visitor, but the visitor did not wish to wait for him. He had chosen a new space in the carpark for his Fiat 500 Abarth, closer to the elevator and within sight of the attendant. He took the stairs to the 3rd floor where he lived because he was more than a stone overweight and needed to slim down. Once there, he switched on the TV and the DVR and watched the new episode of Top Gear with Rowan Atkinson as the star in the reasonably priced car.
 

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Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :
 
Amalia Alto had been fired from Don Cannelloni's Mafia several months ago, after the fourteenth time she showed up late for a hit because of having to drop her kids off at daycare first. (Her husband had died in a shootout with a rival family the year before, and she was still struggling to get herself organized as a single mom.) Now, rushing to attend the birthday party, she was late again- but it seemed that the Don was even later. *cheezy radio-drama-esque chord*

Amalia had been one of the Don's lower-level henchmen. Her secretarial job at the Archdiocese (and membership in the Cathedral choir) had made her useful to Cannelloni as a mole in the Archbishop's organization, allowing her to spy on his meetings with other powerful city leaders. And by listening outside the confessionals, she had informed the Don of all kinds of interesting information- including which of his other henchmen might be starting to feel remorse, or thinking about squealing to the police.

But she was too unreliable now to have much value to Cannelloni anymore. She had been scatterbrained even before she was a grieving single parent, and now it was all too frequent for her to no-show a nighttime hit because she had forgotten to call a babysitter, or to forget the name of her target and shoot the wrong guy, or to misread the mixing instructions on the sack of concrete and end up trying to sink a man with nothing but wet sand on his feet. (Her secretarial work was going downhill, too.) Still, he had been awfully kind to her after her husband's death, and she was sorry to see him laid out in pieces in the stable.

Amalia considered the familiar faces of the other henchmen, all apparently shocked and sorrowful, and voted for no lynching. She never liked to make a decision to kill with so little information available.

[OOC: sorry for taking so long to show up!]
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
He votes for Serrano.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I vote for not lynching, ... Let's give everybody a chance to play a bit, shall we? ... votes for Serrano ... switched on the TV and the DVR and watched the new episode of Top Gear ... I temporarily changed my vote. It is still no lynching.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:
Dahlia, did you just see that I was about to explain how to win, and then voted before you even heard what the plan was?

What's your fucking problem? Not worth listening to the dwarf, is that it? Shall I stand on a fucking chair to speak - you going to listen then? Maybe I should just carve you a new fucking ear?

Did I mention that I hate you? I do.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I am a cop and a hitman!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Would Dafyd have given Sir Kevin significant roles because he didn't think he'd get bumped off AGAIN in the first round?

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Roles have been allocated randomly by shuffling a pack of cards and dealing one to everybody. No human judgement has interfered with the cards' dictates.
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
No sign of AmicoImagiani. Voting is closed.

With four votes Don Carlozzini gets to sleep with the fishes. He was a dirty cop (detective).
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Judge Rossi squints at Eliabeone's plan and tries to understand it. She hates numbers*. Nonetheless, she isn't going to take it on trust that it works. Whatever the reputation, she trusts no one (herself excepted of course).

On paper it seems to make sense. However, she suspects the dwarf is, not for the first time, being overconfident. For it to work, a number of things have to happen: the hitman, bodyguard and Eliabeone himself must all survive, as must all those who've been investigated, and the cop must investigate only ordinary rank and file mobsters and not those with special powers.

For all of this to happen I think we would have to be more lucky than Eliabeone says. If the bodyguard gets killed, whether by detection or sheer dumb luck on the part of the killers, we're screwed. An unguarded declared cop is going to buy the farm very quickly.

AIUI the plan depends on the fact that Eliabeone is himself innocent but we have only his own word for this. The only way to find out for sure would be to kill or investigate him, but he's told us that this is what we must not do

*Why, why yes, this is an autobiographical detail

[X-post with Dafyd - guess there's a little addition to why this plan REALLY doesn't work now... ]

[ 19. September 2011, 12:39: Message edited by: la vie en rouge ]
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Night is falling. Please talk among yourselves. Could all those with night actions please pm me. If you could do so within forty eight hours that would help keep things moving.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
However, she suspects the dwarf is, not for the first time, being overconfident.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:


Dahlia Chelley? Fuck, if dumb meant guilty I'd say do her next. What the fuck was voting for Bellisima going to do, that late in? Fuck all, is what. We should be suspicious of anyone doing anything that obviously won't get what they say they want.

Trouble is, we now know too well that someone can act in a fucking stupid way, not let on that they are our strongest asset, not until its far too late, and then do it in a way that no fucker could believe, and still be on our side. Dumb don't mean guilty.

But fuck it, come tomorrow we'll be doing some bastard in, and she's worth a look, I reckon. Also, I hate her.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:

But fuck it, come tomorrow we'll be doing some bastard in, and she's worth a look, I reckon. Also, I hate her.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:

If Allesandro was a Citizen, when fucking Carlozinni made his ridiculous claim to be a cop and a hitman, he'd have known that Carlozinni wasn't one of his. He'd want him dead, but not to associate himself too closely with the decision. I think he'd say "Really? Do you mean that? We shouldn't kill you if its true, but it isn't really likely you'd be both cop and hitman is it...". Sow the seed of doubt, but not commit. He didn't. He said, as I thought - "that's just bullshit".

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Originally posted by Hart:
I've been trying to make sense of Dahlia's vote. The only sensible explanation I can think of is this: she wanted to make it look like she had it in for Bellisima without actually endangering her. Why would someone want to do that? Because they were actually in league but didn't want anyone to spot that.

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The more I think about it, the more that explains. Bellisima plays pretty unobtrusively, agreeing with Eliabone even though his optimistic view of the rationality of human nature was rearing its head again to get the scent off her. Dahlia plays in an aggressive way, simultaneously making herself a target and putting distance between herself and B. If she's done in, Bellisima then has a pretty safe ride through to the end-game and can win.

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I might be reading too much into a move that was simply poorly thought out -- sometimes there just isn't a sensible explanation for what people do, but that's the best a humble accountant can come up with right now.

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
I can assure you I am not working a tag team with the florist, Mr. Tieri. In fact, I rather resent her late nomination of me to try to draw some votes away from Carlozinni.

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I am still trying to make up my mind what that says about her, and I don't mind at all if the dwarf makes her his next knife sculpture. I will happily supply the calamari and chips to keep his strength up.

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Well that wouldn't bother you, would it, if you were in league with him.

[ 20. September 2011, 22:52: Message edited by: Chelley ]
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Amico Imagiani, being an introvert, was somewhat overawed by the confidence that flowed out of the dwarf. Surely, he was a man who should be feared for his ability to end your life in exactly as painful a way as he wanted, but it was less obvious if his deductive powers matched up to his destructive prowess. Perhaps the attempts to drive the group his way were an attempt to bluster through any speculation that he was behind the Don's death. Perhaps the rage shown is just a front to hide a dark scheme to take down the mob from the inside.

Now, for Ms Rossi's attempts of compassion on Don Carlozzini, that was somewhat strange. Amico didn't know much of previous games, and was not inclined to allow them to count for much. Different roles, different behaviors, mistakes that had been learned from, and the benefit of experience all thrown into the melting pot of emotion that drove the players to their decisions. But having said that, she was defending the innocent, so that may suggest that she herself is not an Honest Citizen.

Bernado - wise words at opportune times, but a little difficult to read for motive. What is your game, I wonder?

Dahlia, my dear. Your move in the voting was strange, but it is somewhat difficult to place in the bigger picture. But abnormality will be remembered, that is for sure.

For myself, I think the lion's share of the suspicion has to fall on those that voted for the departed cop, and especially those that set the ball rolling for his demise, i.e. the early voters. That puts Eliabeone, Bellisima, and Harry in the spotlight. What do you have to say for yourselves?
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Well, Miss Dahlia, if you are innocent, and Mr.Antonio does succeed in doing away with you, then we will all know he really does have it in for the citizen vigilantes. One vigilante (Carlozinni) might be a chance killing, but two in a row would be extremely unfortunate. This would put him firmly in the mafia camp.

Though I secretly suspect he doesn't mind who he kills as long as a bit of blood gets sprayed around.

Now, does everyone have a spoon?
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Amico, amigo, I was asked to fix the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel since the Pope was keen on brushing up the image of the Catholic church. I am sure that my many motives would be lost on inferior souls, which is why all my devices and tools only come with one single big red button (as I'm sure you all know). I intend for it to be able to be used even by a child, or a dwarf. However, my reasons could, with much loss of sublime overtones of course, be concentrated to this sentence:
I intend to reason and argue and be judged on my reasonings and arguments. This will make me a verifiable character, and later in the game it will become clear from this where my allegiance lies, and easy to take me out if I'm good. This is of course given that no one dares to enter my workshop, full of horrendous traps and tools, with anything less than baleful intentions.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
What I don't get is why Bellisima is so keen to back up Eliabeone. Even after watching him shoot his own master-plan down in flames by instigating the lynching of our policeman.* Shorty's own confidence in himself is apparently undimmed, which is par for the course, but why the caterer would still think him infallible is more of a mystery. I'm not sure it's a sign of collusion, because I wouldn't expect the murderers to be so unsubtle, but I do wonder if it doesn't mean *something*.

*I don't think this is particularly a sign of Eliabeone's guilt per se. To take out a detective that early probably is more a question of chance than anything else. After all, we're all working on no information. Personally the reason I thought Carlozzini should be kept alive was exactly what I said - I think it's a bit unsporting for the same person to get killed first every time. ITTWACW
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
For myself, I think the lion's share of the suspicion has to fall on those that voted for the departed cop, and especially those that set the ball rolling for his demise, i.e. the early voters. That puts Eliabeone, Bellisima, and Harry in the spotlight. What do you have to say for yourselves?

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Originally posted by JFH:
Antonio, Antonio, Antonio. If you just hold it a minute there, you will realize this does not make sense with your previous speeches. I realize the general school for logics is not open to dwarves, but please, do remember that a certain character had recently professed to a supposedly excellent plan, near foolproof. This plan said the crooks ought to be skeptical of a killing, not rejoicing in one. And yet you suggest this fine chap Literatissimo ought to secretly be rejoicing in an innocent's death, and point to it as a point of blame?

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Originally posted by JFH:
You know, I read of another megalomaniacal dwarf once.

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Originally posted by Dafyd:
Memo to all members of the inner circle:
if you are rude about other members of the inner circle that is fine, but please be careful to differentiate that from your player being rude about other players. Err on the side of blandness, unless you want to give people an in-game reason to target you.

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Had the dwarf gone one step too far? Or was there some quieter, more malevolent person at work, here.

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
What I don't get is why Bellisima is so keen to back up Eliabeone. Even after watching him shoot his own master-plan down in flames by instigating the lynching of our policeman.* Shorty's own confidence in himself is apparently undimmed, which is par for the course, but why the caterer would still think him infallible is more of a mystery. I'm not sure it's a sign of collusion, because I wouldn't expect the murderers to be so unsubtle, but I do wonder if it doesn't mean *something*.

*I don't think this is particularly a sign of Eliabeone's guilt per se. To take out a detective that early probably is more a question of chance than anything else. After all, we're all working on no information. Personally the reason I thought Carlozzini should be kept alive was exactly what I said - I think it's a bit unsporting for the same person to get killed first every time. ITTWACW

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
"Dear Allesandro, dead?" Bellisima shook her head.

This made her very uneasy. She had liked working with the storekeeper - he had such very INTERESTING things in his shop. Had the dwarf gone one step too far? Or was there some quieter, more malevolent person at work, here.

Antonio Eliabeone, what have you got to say for yourself?

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Mr.Grigio, would you mind telling me if by nominating, I have also voted; or do we now have a nomination phase separate from a voting phase?

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Originally posted by Eliab:

Bellisima Legatura? I don’t see how anyone could think I was an Honest Citizen. That’s just fucked. So nominating me is just so clearly wrong I can’t explain it unless Bellisima is guilty. And I hate her. But I can’t shake the thought that I’ve been here before, and she wasn’t. Can’t explain it. Not sure why, but if it had been anyone else but her, I’d try to lynch them, and with her I’m just not sure enough.

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Dahlia Chelley? She’s odd. I hate her. She’s worth watching. First on my list to lynch if someone has to die and I can’t think of no other fucker to kill. But let’s see if we can do better.

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Harry Tierri? Fuck, I’ve just realised I hate him, too. Look at him, the smug, grinning bastard. Oh, he’s so fucking helpful with his running commentary on the votes, and making unobtrusive little humble contributions, and actually saying a whole lot of fuck all. And gently steering us to a lynching yesterday - which would suggest, if he was a Citizen, that he knew that Senonero and Carlozzini were innocent. It’s not a cast iron case, but fucking Harry is acting just like I’d fucking expect fucking Harry to act if he were a Citizen. Watch him.

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Originally posted by Chelley:
why else would you say you'd go for a lynching and then not "because it's her"?

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Both cast votes for Carlozinni at key times when the ballot could have swayed to another candidate.

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Originally posted by Hart:
I wonder what your real reason is?

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Originally posted by Dafyd:
There will be no lynching either if No lynching gets as many or more votes than anybody else, or else if there is a tie for the highest number of votes.

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Originally posted by Dafyd:
You do not need to achieve a majority to lynch somebody. You don't have scruples about killing people; you're the mafia. The person with the most votes gets it. There will be no lynching either if No lynching gets as many or more votes than anybody else, or else if there is a tie for the highest number of votes.

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Originally posted by Sylvander:
But such blatant vengefulness is obviously irrational and does not sit well with his self-portrayal as the Mafioso of impartial, rational logic.

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You've got me confused with some other cunt. This is the fucking Canellonni mob. Disproportionate and irrational vengeance is what we do here.

It's no secret that if you try to fuck me, I'll want to see you dead. I'm quite prepared to use that, or the fact that I just don't like you very much (and I don't, by the way, in case you were feeling too comfy) as a reason to kill you if I can't think of a better. I'm obviously going to give preference to killing people like the Honest Citizens who actively want me dead. While those bastards are still alive, I'm not going to waste someone I know to be loyal unless they really get on my cock, but that's as far as it goes. Balls to impartial, rational logic.


So it looks like we've decided to kill Bellisima. Pity, ‘cos I'm now almost certain she's innocent.

Why? She's a team player. Maybe our team, maybe theirs, but she'll go for the team win at all costs. So if she's guilty, and she sees, as she must have done, that she's about to have her card stamped, she'll use it.

How? Make damned sure it's an accomplice that pulls the trigger, to set up a cover. Or (if her accomplice has voted already) then claim to be the bodyguard, and at least force the real guard to break cover.

I suppose Rossi might be that accomplice, but I doubt it. I think our cook is checking out quietly, because she's on our side, and has no tricks that she wants to pull.

I hope I'm wrong, and we just nailed a Citizen, but it doesn't look likely to me. If I'm right, I want each and every one of you who made the wrong call (and that includes you, Senonero, I'm not leaving you out) to know that I fucking hate you.



Since it makes no fucking difference how I vote, I'll repeat that Harry was still my best guess for today. Not that it matters now.


Someone pass me a knife and let's get this over with.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Judge Rossi is the one not making sense here with all this over-analyzing, and precious little regard for the fact that I have to have one eye on the kitchen at all times. She is making far more spaghetti than I ever have.

I truly don't mind if you lynch me. The villains are doing a fine job of eliminating the ordinary citizens, but if you ARE an ordinary citizen, then wiping me out is going to leave you even more unprotected, and considerably less well fed. So be it.
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Alto can tell us how she would have voted if she chooses, Mr Grigio announces. Voting is over.

Antonio Eliabeone has one vote, Harry Tierri has two votes, and Bellisima Legatura has five. Bellisima is therefore for it, by a landslide. She was a loyal mafiosa (citizen).

With that, Mr Grigio heads off before the last of the salmon disappears. With Mr Literati's delicatessen and Ms Legatura's catering both closed for the foreseeable future, the food round here, he reflects, will be much poorer.

Will those with night actions (that's the Honest Citizens and the bodyguard) please let me know what you're doing.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 

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Originally posted by JFH:
For some reason, the pair with probably the most experience of crime, the Judge and the Dwarf, had been left alive.

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Eliabeone is right in saying I do things my own way, and am not always easy to read. It comes from spending long hours on my own, talking to the food, coaxing it into ever more delicious combinations.
But if you've all had enough of my cooking, so be it. Someone else may possibly make a better Tiramisu, but I doubt it.
Therefore I will not be voting for Eliabeone, or myself...

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I can assure you I am not working a tag team with the florist, Mr. Tieri. In fact, I rather resent her late nomination of me to try to draw some votes away from Carlozinni. I am still trying to make up my mind what that says about her, and I don't mind at all if the dwarf makes her his next knife sculpture. I will happily supply the calamari and chips to keep his strength up.

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So it looks like we've decided to kill Bellisima. Pity, ‘cos I'm now almost certain she's innocent.

Why? She's a team player. Maybe our team, maybe theirs, but she'll go for the team win at all costs. So if she's guilty, and she sees, as she must have done, that she's about to have her card stamped, she'll use it.

How? Make damned sure it's an accomplice that pulls the trigger, to set up a cover. Or (if her accomplice has voted already) then claim to be the bodyguard, and at least force the real guard to break cover.

I suppose Rossi might be that accomplice, but I doubt it. I think our cook is checking out quietly, because she's on our side, and has no tricks that she wants to pull.

I hope I'm wrong, and we just nailed a Citizen, but it doesn't look likely to me. If I'm right, I want each and every one of you who made the wrong call (and that includes you, Senonero, I'm not leaving you out) to know that I fucking hate you.

Since it makes no fucking difference how I vote, I'll repeat that Harry was still my best guess for today. Not that it matters now.

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I hope I'm wrong, and we just nailed a Citizen, but it doesn't look likely to me. If I'm right, I want each and every one of you who made the wrong call (and that includes you, Senonero, I'm not leaving you out) to know that I fucking hate you.

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Originally posted by Chelley:

But it does occur to me that if Eliabeone and the Judge are in league

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Originally posted by Chelley:
However, this does now beg a few questions. The only way to be "almost certain" of someone else's innocence is to be one of those in the know ... The fact that Eliabeone voted for Tierri when Bellisima was all but lynched could just be another form of appearing to not want to vote for an innocent, though the deed of getting rid of the citizen was already done.

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Originally posted by Chelley:
Eliabeone:

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I hope I'm wrong, and we just nailed a Citizen

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Was that a slip of the tongue? Or was that an Honest Citizen failing to cover up who he's really going for ie the Citizens? I was hoping that we hadn't 'nailed a Citizen'!

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Originally posted by Sylvander:
Eliabeone looks fishy. Does he normally vote that late in the day? ... So delaying his vote looks weird in itself. As does his uncharacteristic "I have a feeling..." diatribe.

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Originally posted by Eliab:

Dahlia Chelley? Talked about her already. Thought she might be acting dumb at first. Now sure she wasn't acting. Probably innocent.

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Annoying thing is, that silly misunderstanding probably means Dahlia's loyal, and I was really hoping the bitch would turn out to be an FC so's I could kill her. If she had some secret word from God, like I did, saying she was a "citizen", her tiny mind might not be able to grasp that God stands the fucking world on its head and only whispers these things to fuck with our brains. So she's got this dumb-ass "I'm a citizen" idea running round in her hamster-cage skull even though she also knows that she's A FUCKING MOBSTER.

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Oh oh oh dumb and a hamster-cage skull... woe is me. But the 'dumb-ass's' patience ran out with the venom spewing psycho. So the rather tame florist nominates Eliabeone for lynching. It'd put the poor boy out of his world-hating misery anyway. I'll get the carnations ready just in case.

Dahlia stepped back to see the volcano erupt (though she is of course too dumb to know what a volcano is but she steps back instinctively just in case).

[ 27. September 2011, 15:09: Message edited by: Chelley ]
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I've been thinking about this, watching the same names going round in circles - and I think the killers may be playing a different game, i.e. leaving us to fight it out among ourselves while they sit around on the sidelines keeping quiet and stirring occasionally as required. I'm beginning to wonder if I didn't have it right in the first place.

Silvio Senonero has been rambling on considerably less than he usually does. He voted for no lynching fairly early in the first round, as I would expect a killer to do if they thought they could get away with it. Alessandro voted for Silvio and then promptly became the first murder victim .

Silvio's become a bit more talkative now, and apparently has it in for Eliabeone*. Now it could be that Eliabeone actually is a murderer after all, in which case Silvio's probably innocent. OTOH, the vote for Eliabeone, flying in the face of the general opinion that Belissima was the best bet, might be the Honest Citizens trying to split their votes in order to avoid a paper trail in the event that one of them gets caught (Silvio voted late when Belissima was already well ahead).

Why kill Amico Imagiani? I think either the Honest Citizens are looking for the doctor, or they didn't expect Amico to be protected and wanted to make sure they got their hit on target. Can't see why there would be any particular animosity against him otherwise, he voted with the majority both times. Eliabeone had said he thought he was most likely innocent.

*Which is probably going to bring back the accusation of me being in league with Shorty. Not true, I'm afraid. I guess the only way to prove this for certain would be to kill Eliabeone, and if he does turn out to be a traitor then I'm in trouble (or you could kill me, but that would be a very bad move because I'm loyal). Nonetheless, Eliab and I are not conspiring (much as I may dream of the day when we go on a truly Machiavellian murderous rampage together. If only ).
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
I'm not going to split the vote against fucking Silvio, although he is my second choice after Harry.

Unless Silvio role claims, of course, and isn't contradicted.

That's worth thinking about, though, 'cos it'd land me right up shit creek if he did. I reckon Silvio's either a guard, a hit-man or an FC, so if he claims and it's just me or him nominated, that guarantees either a wasted day or a dead fucking innocent. More to the point, the only fucking innocent I happen to like.

So I might have to nominate Harry as a long-stop alternative to me. We'll see what Silvio has to say for himself first, though.
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Oops - forgot to mention that Amico Imagiani was an ordinary loyal mobster (citizen).
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
If I was playing solo, I'd be on the defensive right now, trying to undermine Eliab. But I'm not as this is a team game and I don't see any evidence that Eliab's not on my team, even though he's wrong about me. I don't think he and Rossi are in league -- if they were together against the family I think we'd be seeing something much cleverer going on right now. For a start, I think they'd both be paying better attention. Eliabone wouldn't have put forward an initial plan whose odds just didn't work; Rossi wouldn't have misunderstood the voting system.

I'll reiterate my suspicion that the real action in this game is happening among the quiet people. The Honest Citizens are keeping quiet and knocking off quieter people in the hope that they have special roles, whilst leaving the talkers to fight amongst themselves. That way, they can knock each other out lynching without the HCs ever having to force anything publically.

All this means that, unless there are any announcements, Silvio might not be a terrible choice. Not that I'm committing myself to anything yet, though... there are quite a few people I'd like to hear more from.
 

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Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
The reason Senonero is quiet is simply too much work and fun in RL. He just got enough time to read the short and skim through the lengthy posts.
Hadn't seen any hints that he missed enlightening argument or thought, deep or otherwise. Just a lot of waffling, bragging, polemics and foul language.
Mafia life could be so tedious , he mused, and pined for home, the quiet Alpine valleys and the company of his parents' cows. True, they shat in the fields, but their conversation made more sense, was conducted in more pleasant voices and they had more beautiful eyes, too.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sylvander:
he mused, and pined for home, the quiet Alpine valleys and the company of his parents' cows. True, they shat in the fields, but their conversation made more sense, was conducted in more pleasant voices and they had more beautiful eyes, too.

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Originally posted by JFH:
I suspect and fear we might be taking out the bodyguard

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Originally posted by JFH:
Antonio.

You've been talking about two FC's all along, which now just seems very strange. I believe you even mentioned "the two FC's" or something such earlier (and I am inviting an accomplice to prove me wrong). There's something to the constant reasonings you've added, and you've constantly been placing yourself in the clear after killings, and safeguarded yourself. Your plans have been shoddy at best, but defended with an extreme gusto, as if to hinder other plans from making it onto the scene.

You were lucky with the minutes thing with Grigio's announcing of Literati's (lack of) innocence and death, but you cleared a whole bunch of people in that post, and mind you - had you been wrong you would have been able to claim that you didn't know since you're just a citizen. I don't believe you would have hesitated from calling it a cross-post. Writing the post gave you an alibi. It was a long post, mind you. Rather, you were unlucky that Grigio checked that bodybag so soon - you could have counted on that it would take a while longer.

You were lucky with Carlozzini, but then you knew Silvio was innocent and that was why he was acting weird. You're the one who nominated him on account of acting weird and being up to something. You would've known and wanted him out more than others.

I don't know who accomplices might be, possibly Dahlia taking a distance from you by accusing you wildly (while you put her in the clear as "probably innocent", graciously) and Bellisima before that. I just know that you have a lot to speak for tomorrow, and I'll gladly listen if I'm alive. I knew I should've trusted that device of mine mentioned before. Your lies lie before us and speak the truth about you.

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Originally posted by Eliab:
Unless we sit on our asses and leave it to the hitman to guess right twice, before they nail him? Not good odds, though.

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Originally posted by JFH:
Antonio.

You've been talking about two FC's all along, which now just seems very strange. I believe you even mentioned "the two FC's" or something such earlier

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quote:

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Your plans have been shoddy at best, but defended with an extreme gusto, as if to hinder other plans from making it onto the scene.

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you knew Silvio was innocent and that was why he was acting weird. You're the one who nominated him on account of acting weird and being up to something. You would've known and wanted him out more than others.

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I don't know who accomplices might be, possibly Dahlia taking a distance from you by accusing you wildly (while you put her in the clear as "probably innocent", graciously) and Bellisima before that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:
Antonio.

You've been talking about two FC's all along, which now just seems very strange. I believe you even mentioned "the two FC's" or something such earlier

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Three's too many. One's too few.

Fucking obvious.

Or do you really think I'm dumb enough to let that sort of thing slip out by mistake? Balls.

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quote:

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quote:

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Your plans have been shoddy at best, but defended with an extreme gusto, as if to hinder other plans from making it onto the scene.

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That, if I can say so with all due respect (i.e. none) is because you're fucking thick.

My first plan was never a sure win, but it was a much better than even chance. Big mistake was assuming that the cop and the guard wouldn't be such fucking tools. They were. Our tough fucking luck.

But think seriously. Assume the cop was smart. We don't ever need to lynch him. If the doctor survives the first night, the cop can clear two people. We don't ever need to lynch people the cop has cleared. There's two others can clear themselves, and we don't ever need to lynch them either. We have four known inoccents, day three, and we win automatically. There's a good chance of getting that. Worth fucking playing for, no?

Sure it could go wrong, and I said at the start how it could go wrong. Still, the odds were with us, assuming minimal fucking competence (yeah, I know...). Would have been dumber than both you and fucking Dahlia dipped in dumb sauce for an FC to have pointed that out first fucking day.

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quote:

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quote:

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you knew Silvio was innocent and that was why he was acting weird. You're the one who nominated him on account of acting weird and being up to something. You would've known and wanted him out more than others.

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Yeah, absolutely. I had Silvio's number straight away. He's never, ever, been that quiet and evasive. Never. There was definitely something up there. That I was fucking sure about.

Now if I'm an FC, as you say, I want him out more than anyone else, ‘cos I know he's innocent and can hurt me. So what do I do? Kill him. Imagiani wasn't much of a threat to me (or anyone else) so why fanny around with him when Silvio's right at the top of my shit list?

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But if I'm loyal? What then? Silvio could be a killer, or our most valuable asset. Can't afford to let him live if he's guilty, can't afford to lose him if he ain't. That's a real fucking problem.

Shit, I couldn't have done much more to give him a way out. I gave him enough time to declare his role. And if he didn't want to do that (and as he was the bodyguard, that would have been a last resort move) I made it pretty fucking clear I'd vote for Tierri if I had ANY FUCKING SUPPORT FOR THAT AT ALL. So if Silvio had any sense at all he'd have known it was always going to be better for us to lynch Harry than him.

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quote:

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quote:

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I don't know who accomplices might be, possibly Dahlia taking a distance from you by accusing you wildly (while you put her in the clear as "probably innocent", graciously) and Bellisima before that.

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Are you for fucking real? Bellisima's your second guess at "my accomplice"? Dead, and confirmed innocent?

You're welcome to kill Dahlia. Don't reckon she's guilty, but at least if we lose I'll get to see her dead first. I hate her.

But all that's beside the point. Assume our hit-man's alive tomorrow, our real choice is not who to lynch but whether to lynch at all. Can we do better than the odds of leaving it down to him? We need to think about that first, ‘cos we don't want to nominate and force him to declare himself unless we definitely aren't using him. Not an easy fucking choice to make.

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Originally posted by JFH:
How come you didn't nominate Harry?

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I expect Antonio is going to stick to his guns about Harry. If he did it, that's fine. OTOH we need to make sure we're making the right pick if we decide that Harry's not it and we want to nominate another candidate

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Harry's still all alone in the dock… the complete absence of any attempt to defend him makes me think that he may well be innocent - the Honest Citizens apparently don't mind if he buys the farm. Question then is whether Eliabeone is mistaken or malicious.

What's happened to the florist? What with the funeral requirements at present, you'd think she have plenty to keep her occupied round here.

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Harry's still all alone in the dock… the complete absence of any attempt to defend him makes me think that he may well be innocent - the Honest Citizens apparently don't mind if he buys the farm. Question then is whether Eliabeone is mistaken or malicious.

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Originally posted by Hart:
Who's the only person in this library that I think could actually totally dupe me? The dwarf (plus a willing accomplice). I have some suspicions about the accomplice, but we'll leave those to see if I survive the night. I nominate Eliab.

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"He is the one! That man is our last hope!"

No, Harry, there is another.
There are two strategic masterminds in this room (mine is limited to arts and devices of various sorts). The Judge didn't get to that position without knowing her way around. I find it strange that the thought doesn't seem to have struck your mind.

Not nominating anyone, as of yet at least. There is a great risk in splitting the vote. Right now my thoughts are that Harry and the Judge may be in cahoots. Not sure though. Will listen to reasonings.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Sorry? I am simultaneously duping Harry and in league with him? Er, Bernardo, I know you write backwards, but that doesn't make sense.

Am I smart enough to run rings round you all? Damn straight Nonetheless, mere intelligence doth not a murderer make. The question is who has been behaving in a way that is not only intelligent, but incriminating. Trouble is, despite my appeal for garrulousness, no one has been talking all that much, which makes it much harder to follow a trail. The exception to this is Mouthy the dwarf, whose utterances don't seem to have done all that much good convincing anyone. You did get talkative yesterday, but now you've apparently retracted it all, so where are we? Unless all that talk of getting the concrete ready for Antonio was just bluster and you never really meant it?

Furthermore, any attempt to split the vote at this point suggests that you are either stupid, suspicious or plain suicidal. For better or worse, I think we have to do the best with what we've got.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Harry's still all alone in the dock… the complete absence of any attempt to defend him makes me think that he may well be innocent

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Originally posted by JFH:
Not nominating anyone, as of yet at least. There is a great risk in splitting the vote. Right now my thoughts are that Harry and the Judge may be in cahoots.

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Originally posted by Eliab:
Then there's Amalia. Killers missed a trick there that I wouldn't've.

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Originally posted by Hart:
Besides, you like to give yourself a challenge.

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Originally posted by Chelley:

ALIVE -
Hart: HARRY TIERRI (nominated by Eliabeone)
Chelley: DAHLIA CHELLEY
JFH: BERNARDO
Eliab: ANTONIO ELIABEONE (nominated by Tierri)

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Originally posted by Eliab:
Harry Tierri.

And all that can save us now is if Bernardo and Rossi are loyal mobsters and vote for him.

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Originally posted by Chelley:

Eliabeone and Tierri are both innocent and Bernardo and Rossi are the two night killers, in which case it won't make any difference which one of you is lynched, but they'd go for the same one to make sure of the lynching. (And which would mean you and I are both wrong in who we're suspicious of).

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Originally posted by Eliab:
Oh, I don't mind taking my time over hurting someone if I'm fucking certain they can't hurt me back, but I never cock about when there's still fight in them. There's a time to gloat, and basically it's when the other cunt's disarmed and bleeding out.

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the fact that no one is rushing to (Harry's) rescue makes me think that he might be innocent. If he was an Honest Citizen, I would expect an accomplice to be trying to get him off the hook

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Judge Rossi is the one not making sense here with all this over-analyzing, and precious little regard for the fact that I have to have one eye on the kitchen at all times. She is making far more spaghetti than I ever have.

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Well, I DID try to warn you all!

Lord, but she'll be more insufferable than Idi Armin now, and with almost as many titles...Judge, Prime Minister and Red Cat Goddess.
What will be next, I wonder?

 

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Posted by Chelley (# 11322) on :
 

If Eliab hadn't been quite such a vindictive nutter from the start I might not have been deluded into thinking he was baaaad. And why did I ignore my early suspicions about Rossi!
But as Brucie would say, "Good game, good game!"
Going to read back and see how obvious everything is with hindsight!
Then I'll stick to flowers!
 

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Posted by Chelley (# 11322) on :
 
My biggest problem was becoming convinced early on that Eliab was playing one big supersized bluff (he's done it before though it is a long time since I played). Kind of clouded everything that!
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 

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Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
I would, however, like to ask the Honest Citizens what they have against good food. Seriously, you killed me and the caterer first? How Could You?

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Y’know, it’s a compliment to be killed first in a mafia game. We basically chose our hits on the basis of people who are intelligent enough to be dangerous to us but who we thought were unlikely to be protected by the doctor. There is nothing more humiliating than missing your hit. Belissima was what I call a Mount Everest death ("because she was there") but since she was onto me it was kind of in my interests for her to end up dead and silent.

I thought a couple of things I did were extremely incriminating, actually. Notably according to my own misunderstanding of the rules (this wasn’t a bluff, I really wasn’t paying enough attention…), my casting vote to lynch Belissima was, more to the point, a casting vote to save Harry from the noose. I wasn’t very pleased with it but it was the best I could do in the circumstances.

In one way, bumping off Amalia not Bernardo was a bit of a tactical error, but it seemed more aesthetically pleasing to us to win by lynching Eliab than by a split vote because of a player gone AWOL. We were fairly confident we could poison Chelley’s ear enough for this to be possible (this is why lynching Silvio was such a win-win – we could make it look like Eliab’s idea).

Murderer or not, I also meant it about not wanting Sir Kevin to die in the first round (the fact that I care about this probably shows that I am going soft in my dotage). Seemed a bit unkind to me.

Oh - on the hitman… The Honest Citizens don’t want a lynching? Are you having a laugh? Call me a control freak but if people are going to die, I am going to be the one deciding who they are, thankyouverymuch. I'll have no one taking potshots on my patch. Loved how you all fell for it, tho.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Oh, and most laughable line for me was Eliab telling everyone I am a team player. Maybe the Judge would like to comment on THAT one! Otherwise, I loved you Shorty. And there's a gig for you over on the Fairytale Lawyers thread in Heaven if you want it!
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
How would people feel about another game after a couple of weeks' hiatus? I'm interested in running one that allows preference voting. I'd keep the roles pretty vanilla as I think that a new voting system would be enough novelty for one game.
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

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Originally posted by Hart:
How would people feel about another game after a couple of weeks' hiatus? I'm interested in running one that allows preference voting.

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Originally posted by Eliab:
I thought that there was a (slim) chance that Rossi would vote for him if she thought he was going down anyway and that she wouldn't be suspected.

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I thought a couple of things I did were extremely incriminating, actually. Notably according to my own misunderstanding of the rules (this wasn't a bluff, I really wasn't paying enough attention…), my casting vote to lynch Belissima was, more to the point, a casting vote to save Harry from the noose. I wasn't very pleased with it but it was the best I could do in the circumstances.

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Originally posted by JFH:
Question: How come I managed to get through the game virtually unsuspected?

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Originally posted by Eliab:


And I'm sorry to Chelley (and everyone else, but mostly her) for being so unpleasant. It was, I assure you, entirely in character. As the setting had us as mafiosi, I thought it would be fun to play a thoroughly nasty character. (I almost added "...for a change" but some of you might remember previous characters.)

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No offence taken! Though unfortunately for me (and rather usefully for vie and Hart) it had me thinking you were playing some big double bluff and were sinister which meant I suspected your accusations of Tierri (and all other logic) rather than listened more carefully to them!
Having read back, my rather random looking nomination of Bellisima did seem rather out of nowhere - but it did make sense to me at the time! Especially given that I was thinking that she and Eliabeone were likely in league at that point! Rossi did a good job of going from 'highly suspect' to just 'wondering' though.
 

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Posted by Chelley (# 11322) on :
 
Crossposted with Eliab!

[And I'd be up for another game. I'd have to play like a brainless reactionary again to cover any future, potential guilt!]

[ 10. October 2011, 11:15: Message edited by: Chelley ]
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I remembered some of your words in the past, Eliab, about carefully picking a character with something of a story to it, and when I myself had planned on playing a dwarf character based on the Nobel laureate Pär Lagerkvist's book it just seemed to obvious. I have to ask you, was there any relation what so ever to the book?

Thing was just, as I later realized, it could mean you were the most sinister character ever both by being a truly evil character, as the case was, or possibly an even sneakier two-faced double-crosser, that is an Honest Citizen.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

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Originally posted by JFH:
I remembered some of your words in the past, Eliab, about carefully picking a character with something of a story to it, and when I myself had planned on playing a dwarf character based on the Nobel laureate Pär Lagerkvist's book it just seemed to obvious. I have to ask you, was there any relation what so ever to the book?

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Originally posted by Eliab:

I rarely play unpleasant characters as an intentional bluff. I play them because I rather enjoy it. One or two of my mafia characters have been nice. Possibly.

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Ah, yes, I vaguely recall that game based in the parallel universe!
 

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Posted by Chelley (# 11322) on :
 
I just found this - Eliab's first post on the first game of Mafia I played back in 2006:

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I'm in.

And bloody well listen to me this time, ok?

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Originally posted by JFH:
I honestly had thoughts relatively early about you, Red/White Cat Judge, but I thought the game didn't seem machiavellian enough. It would seem to me you'd render it a greater style, with more talking and more accusations all across the table than ever before, or at least some really good twist that just didn't show up. Ah well, I suppose keeping Eliab alive all through was a grand gesture enough.

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I'm a pragmatist at heart - the most important thing to me is, what is going to make me win? It's nice to be Machiavellian along the way, but not to the extent of style over content. I take the view that the most important thing to any mafia outfit is avoiding detection - if you can do that, then the corpses usually start piling up on their own.

We also couldn't afford to take any really wild risks, especially once Harry was suspected, because we were a small mob. Taking an early casualty when there's only two of you leaves you with a massive uphill struggle so it was vitally important for us both to stay alive.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
I'd never played as a member of the mafia before this game, but I imagine it would be very different with a 3-person team. That way, losing one person while keeping your other two distant or even opposed to them could be something you might actually like. With two, that gets a lot less attractive.

As for the next game, this week's a killer for me (no pun intended) and I think it usually works well to have a little time off between games anyway, so I'll probably post an OP in a week with play to start a week after that. As for voting method, I was planning on Minimax Condorcet using winning margins. It's not too hard to calculate and satisfies a decent number of desiderata (you can't satisfy them all). Anyone who manages to figure out how to take advantage of the fact that it's a little clone-sensitive deserves the advantage they'll get, IMO.
 

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Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Hart, it's generally considered poor form to take advantage of the fact that two of the Circus hosts are geeky enough to let you do whatever you want, so long as it involves a nifty method of preference aggregation. I'm not sure that Chorister couldn't be dragged into the spirit of things, if IF and I nerded out on her enough.

Watch yourself when you start this next game, because you shouldn't trust the Geek Squad (listed at the top of the page) to do it.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I shall never attempt to play again, nor shall I read the posts on this thread after I was assassinated. I guess my writing sucks and I need a university course in creative writing...

Third time dead is not the charmer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by Chelley (# 11322) on :
 

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I shall never attempt to play again, nor shall I read the posts on this thread after I was assassinated. I guess my writing sucks and I need a university course in creative writing...

Third time dead is not the charmer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by Hart:

As for voting method, I was planning on Minimax Condorcet using winning margins. It's not too hard to calculate and satisfies a decent number of desiderata (you can't satisfy them all). Anyone who manages to figure out how to take advantage of the fact that it's a little clone-sensitive deserves the advantage they'll get, IMO.

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Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Hart, it's generally considered poor form to take advantage of the fact that two of the Circus hosts are geeky enough to let you do whatever you want, so long as it involves a nifty method of preference aggregation. I'm not sure that Chorister couldn't be dragged into the spirit of things, if IF and I nerded out on her enough.

Watch yourself when you start this next game, because you shouldn't trust the Geek Squad (listed at the top of the page) to do it.

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