And even if there was the promise of an orgiastic tat festival, well, it still wouldn't be, you know, the real thing.

So actually, help a dense little coot out, is the object to create a humorous and make-believe 'office' (in which case you're in with a chance) or um, is it, oof! I can't bring myself to say it.

(Repeats in the manner of a Litany: Gregory of Nyssa Gregory of Nyssa)
 

I accompany my office with incense and icons if at home. If I am in town I may well visit LSM and pray some devotions to Mary, if near my church I will go into the chapel where we reserve the most holy sacrament, genuflect (of course) and say my office.

Take the tat, the ceremony, and the processions, but do not take away from me what truly makes me "catholic".

Before I get this thread sent to Hell perhaps we ought to think about the sort of office that would be a Liturgy of Christian unrest.

For ideas why not have a look a oremus to give you a starting place.
 

But it was a real question - I genuinely was unsure as to whether the idea of a Ship of Fools liturgy was a joke idea or not. Ahem. Your response leads me to conclude it is serious - but even this I can't reconcile with a dismissal prayer of: "Now get us off our arses to actually do something."
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Happy Coot:
So actually, help a dense little coot out, is the object to create a humorous and make-believe 'office' (in which case you're in with a chance) or um, is it, oof! I can't bring myself to say it.

(Repeats in the manner of a Litany: Gregory of Nyssa Gregory of Nyssa)

---

Well, think about the SoF. It is kind of funny, but also very serious. Something serious enough to use at a meet, but with a sharp edge to it ...

Is that clearer ... perhaps not ...
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Happy Coot:
[If I can make a quick response without getting us sent to purgatory: my idea of a catholic spirituality involves continuity of worship eg. the orthodox concept of continuity of worship. ie. they still faithfully use the Liturgy of St John Chysostom]

---

I think the term "Living Tradition" sums up my approach. I would expect the SoF liturgy to include elements of tradition, but also new content that followed a Liturgical form. Common Worship has adopted this approach I feel. New Liturgies in this form have been created by various neo-monastic communities, such as Northumbria and Iona.

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Happy Coot:
But it was a real question - I genuinely was unsure as to whether the idea of a Ship of Fools liturgy was a joke idea or not. Ahem. Your response leads me to conclude it is serious - but even this I can't reconcile with a dismissal prayer of: "Now get us off our arses to actually do something."

---

Well the dismissal prayer is a Joke in my mind, but represents a tradition of dismissals that can be seen in the following Post-Communion prayer

quote:

---

Almighty God,
we thank you for feeding us
with the body and blood of your Son Jesus Christ.
Through him we offer you our souls and bodies
to be a living sacrifice.
Send us out
in the power of your Spirit
to live and work
to your praise and glory.
Amen.

---

In short ... get off our arses.

I think Simon and I were hoping for something usable but unusual.
 

Is there a way of creating a new liturgy that would make others think a bit deeper, or surprise them. Some people need to pray that God would get them off their arses and start doing things. Others will heed "Go into the world, and be an example of compassion and justice as Christ was."

Can you think of something that is meaningful to you, that might aid another?

bb
 

One of the elements of the SoF Office would be a Expression of Faith. Should we use a creed, or something like this from the northumbria community?

I am rather fond of the Tirechans Creed. How do other people feel?
 

Modern thematic liturgy doesn't turn me on. In fact. I hate it. However. The Ship is such a cool place that I feel obliged to offer some sort of support - if only feedback or my prayers that you will create something that others will find edifying.

The Coot,
Who says what others only think.
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Happy Coot:
Who says what others only think.

---

Me 2.

Sorry for mincing. I find its the only way to swing (a thurible).
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sacredthree:
well being an office it should be fairly broad in its appeal. <snip> I generally find a variety of churchmanships can sit and share a basic liturgy fairly well.

---

It seems to me that before writing a listurgy [sic :-)], we need to do some work of discernment. Are we being called by God to pray together as a group? About what? Is this calling one that needs to be answered with collective and corporate prayer? If so, are there already existing forms which will serve to allow us to answer the call?

I'm suggesting here that creating a liturgical form divorced from a community need to pray it may be rather an empty exercise. It might have modest virtues as an aesthetic work or as a didactic device, but it's not likely something that will be of much help to building the body and supporting our prayer.

Please don't consider this cold water, however. We may well indeed be called to pray together in someway - but we first need to determine if we are called to journey together to a particular destination before making travel plans and building a vehicle.

Cheers from Boston - Joan Rasch
 

Liturgy should flow like water from that interaction.
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sacredthree:
Joan the SoF is an online community. We live, laugh and suffer together. We are united by the sense of unrest we feel.

Liturgy should flow like water from that interaction.

---

I completely agree - but we still need to do the work of discernment. If we are indeed "united by the sense of unrest we feel", we still need to work together to articulate the content of that 'unrest' and hear how God might be calling us to respond. I will confess to being a relative newbie here, but I'm not yet clear in my mind on either the content or the calling.

But I do look forward to doing this work if others are so inclined.

Cheers from Boston - Joan Rasch
 

More seriously and because I feel that a general confession taken at breakneck speed and an absolution which follows hard on the heels smacks of "let's get this out of the way and not associate it with our lives as we lead them": a confession

"Lord, we have said too much and said too little." (pause to reflect on insensitive remarks and lack of comfort/encouraging remarks)

"Lord, we have done too much and done too little." (pause to reflect on being too busy and procrastinating)

"Lord, we have prayed too much and prayed too little." (pause to reflect on praying to change the order of things to suit ourselves and ignoring real injustice)

"Lord, we have thought too much and thought too little." (pause to reflect on hair-splitting and prejudice)

"Lord, we have loved too much and loved too little." (pause to reflect on infatuation or smother-love and ignoring those who don't interest you)

(it needs a conclusion, anyone?)
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ann:
(it needs a conclusion, anyone?)

---

how about:

Lord, we have confessed too much, and confessed too little. Enough already.

The Lord forgives (we hope). Any guilt you still have is your own problem. Move on.
 

The Lord forgives; never too much, never too little. In the Lord there is perfection and peace. Be still and receive the forgiveness and peace of the Lord.

bb

[ 21 August 2001: Message edited by: babybear ]
 

(and what is this website's obsession with the hitchhikers guide? it's a good radio program and book which gradually ended up as a series of poor sequels. get over it people)
 

[add this to the end of Ann's contribution]
Lord, we have confessed too much, and confessed too little. (reflect on the minor transgressions that you've blown up so that they obscure the major transgressions.)

[use this as a bridge]
Lord, You know all that is said and unsaid,
done and undone,
prayed for and unprayed for,
thought and ignored,
loved and unloved,
confessed and hidden.

[end with BabyBear's contribuation]
The Lord forgives; never too much, never too little. In the Lord there is perfection and peace. Be still and recieve the forgiveness and peace of the Lord.
 

Tubbs
 

bb
 

Sieg
 

Lord, we have done too much and done too little.
(pause to reflect on being too busy and procrastinating)

Lord, we have prayed too much and prayed too little.
(pause to reflect on praying to change the order of things to suit ourselves and ignoring real injustice)

Lord, we have thought too much and thought too little.
(pause to reflect on hair-splitting and prejudice)

Lord, we have loved too much and loved too little.
(pause to reflect on infatuation or smother-love and ignoring those who don't interest you)

Lord, we have confessed too much, and confessed too little.
(reflect on the minor transgressions that you've blown up so that they obscure the major transgressions.)

Lord,
You know all that is said and unsaid,
done and undone,
prayed for and unprayed for,
thought and ignored,
loved and unloved,
confessed and hidden.

The Lord forgives; never too much,
never too little.
In the Lord there is perfection and peace.
Be still and receive the forgiveness and peace of the Lord.
 

I typed it up and have it stuck to the wall in my cube at the moment.
 

Will try and work on a Collect of Unrest while I'm on holiday

For a psalm - how about Fiona-Jane's version of Psalm 34 (I can provide a copy if required)
 

Since Tony is currently unemployed I commission him to contact FJ about the psalm.

bb
 

She originally posted it on the Ship in 1999, and gave me permission to use it, provided I named her as the author - but I have referred her to this thread
 

Also had to face up to lots of unresolved problems and unconfessed sins. Funny, had a terrible week this week in a job that I love and there are only decent workmates. The management are a bit hypersenstive and I really stood on someone's toes this week and was terrified that I might get sacked. All the old paranoia was back and the devil was laughing at me again.

this time it wasn't the shipmates who rallied round, cos I haven't been on the boards lately, but my non-xtian workmates! God used them to show me that there is no way I'm going to lose this job cos He put me in it, and I just gotta stop and trust!

So it's a Psalm written out of unrest, just like David did. I had my own "Saul" to be frightened of, and that which I wrote was the result.

If it helps, have it. I've lost my copy so I'd appreciate the chance to retrieve it from Tony to go on my poems page on my own website at Fudge's marshmallow World

FJ (managers!?)
 

Psalm 34, or otherwise

I cried unto the Lord and He heard me,
And sent me the love of all my dear friends,
The Angel of the Lord encamps round about them that fear Him,
And creates a shield from the prayers of those closest to me.

Such kindness and friendship in a wicked world,
Was indeed a treasure to discover.
An oasis in the boiling seas of life,
Where all my shipmates came to gather round me.
I had not thought such love
Still existed in this fast decaying time,
But you all care more than any
A balm to a troubled spirit and frightened heart.
Reminded me who holds the chart,
Who the pilot of my ship is,
Who has the answers and listens when I scream and stamp.
Who puts the sun behind the clouds
To burst through a billion times brighter
When the storm passes.

My guardian angels were the hearts of my friends,
There in the time of need,
Let me praise you and the Captain,
Whose sons and daughters we all are,
For giving such clear assurance,
He's still in charge.
----------------------------
Land ahoy, me lads,
The Journey won't be much longer,
Press on towards the shore,
To gain an eternal harbour secure.

Author: Fiona-Jane Brown, SoF
 

It's great to see something like this grow.

What directin do you think we should go with as an expression of faith. Should we go for a creed or something else?
 

bb
 

bb
 

we believe in unrest, to separate the chaff from the wheat.
we believe in doubt, in questions, in opinions. god has them; jesus has them, why shouldn't we?
we believe in ourselves - the only people who can change things.
we believe in jesus, the subversive, the rebel. he regarded people rather than laws as important. he felt all feelings, including anger, pain and abandonment.
we believe in a god who uses misfits, oddballs, unlikely, ordinanry people to tell his story.

it's late, and i'm running dry. will maybe add more later.....

any one else?

viki
 

"God loves you, and there is nothing you can do about it."
 

Preparation

Greeting:
God loves you, and there is nothing you can do about it

A Prayer of Preparation / Confession:
Lord, we have said too much and said too little.
(pause to reflect on insensitive remarks and lack of comfort/encouraging remarks)
Lord, we have done too much and done too little.
(pause to reflect on being too busy and procrastinating)

Lord, we have prayed too much and prayed too little.
(pause to reflect on praying to change the order of things to suit ourselves and ignoring real injustice)

Lord, we have thought too much and thought too little.
(pause to reflect on hair-splitting and prejudice)

Lord, we have loved too much and loved too little.
(pause to reflect on infatuation or smother-love and ignoring those who don't interest you)

Lord, we have confessed too much, and confessed too little.
(reflect on the minor transgressions that you've blown up so that they obscure the major transgressions.)

Lord,
You know all that is said and unsaid,
done and undone,
prayed for and unprayed for,
thought and ignored,
loved and unloved,
confessed and hidden.

The Lord forgives; never too much,
never too little.
In the Lord there is perfection and peace.
Be still and receive the forgiveness and peace of the Lord.

A Collect of Christian Unrest:
TonyK? Anything yet?

Liturgy of the Word

An Expression of Faith:
we believe in unrest, to separate the chaff from the wheat.
we believe in doubt, in questions, in opinions. god has them; jesus has them, why shouldn't we?
we believe in ourselves - the only people who can change things.
we believe in jesus, the subversive, the rebel. he regarded people rather than laws as important. he felt all feelings, including anger, pain and abandonment.
we believe in a god who uses misfits, oddballs, unlikely, ordinanry people to tell his story.

Space for Readings:

Psalm:
Psalm 34, or otherwise

I cried unto the Lord and He heard me,
And sent me the love of all my dear friends,
The Angel of the Lord encamps round about them that fear Him,
And creates a shield from the prayers of those closest to me.

Such kindness and friendship in a wicked world,
Was indeed a treasure to discover.
An oasis in the boiling seas of life,
Where all my shipmates came to gather round me.
I had not thought such love
Still existed in this fast decaying time,
But you all care more than any
A balm to a troubled spirit and frightened heart.
Reminded me who holds the chart,
Who the pilot of my ship is,
Who has the answers and listens when I scream and stamp.
Who puts the sun behind the clouds
To burst through a billion times brighter
When the storm passes.

My guardian angels were the hearts of my friends,
There in the time of need,
Let me praise you and the Captain,
Whose sons and daughters we all are,
For giving such clear assurance,
He's still in charge.
----------------------------
Land ahoy, me lads,
The Journey won't be much longer,
Press on towards the shore,
To gain an eternal harbour secure.

Prayers
Intercessions and Thanksgivings
The Lords Prayer (perhaps our own "translation")

Conclusion
Dismissal:

So that leaves us the collect of unrest, a pattern for intercessions, and a dismissal, and maybe a lords prayer translation?
 

Go with God, and stay with God.

?
 

quote:

---

Paul Sheppy from "Prayers for a New Millennium".
The worship is over; the service begins.
Go, people of Go, into God's world.
Mett Christ in friend and stranger,
serve him in all you meet.
And may the blessing of God,
Father, Son and Holy Spirit fill you
and the whole of creation,
now and always.

---

bb
 

Possible addition to the creed:

We believe in love, that comforts and challenges, that never lets us stay still but always draws us towards God.

The Lord Prayer will be quite hard, je pense. Interestingly, though, I think the Our father/hallowed be your name dichotomy will fit in quite well with the restless tension there seems to be in the rest of what's been written... How about starting:

God, whose home is heaven, who we on Earth love, and laugh with, and revere...

And for the 'forgive us our sins':

Challenged by the knowledge of your complete forgiveness, help us to forgive others.
 

bb
 

Here's an offering for the Lords Prayer:

God, whose home is heaven, who we on Earth love, and laugh with, and revere, may we help to build your Kingdom right here and now, uniting Earth with Heaven in one creation centred on you and living by your light and your love.

You became an embodied spirit, like us, and you know our needs of body and soul. May we have what we need to live so that we may give ourselves wholly to you.

Challenged by the knowledge of your complete forgiveness, help us to forgive others. Forgive us that we are afraid to receive only the forgiveness we have given.

We believe you will not break us, but if we must be tested for your glory and our growth then give us strength.

Do not abandon us in the darkness that is sometimes our own minds, and stand between us and others who may try to imprison us in the darkness of the world.

We ask this of you because from you comes all goodness and love, all strength and all the light that pierces the darkness, for all time and outside time.
 

The worship is over; the service begins.
Go with God, and stay with God.

or some other fusion?

I also like the creed additions too.
 

NB would it be possible to have a REAL silence in the liturgy? ie something more than an 'Anglican silence' which is the time it takes the priest to draw breath between saying "Let us pray" and starting the collect
 

bb
 

Any other thoughts anyone?
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joan the Dwarf:
NB would it be possible to have a REAL silence in the liturgy? ie something more than an 'Anglican silence' which is the time it takes the priest to draw breath between saying "Let us pray" and starting the collect

---

i thoroughly agree. that irks me, especially in the confession, when we are given barely a minute to think over our sins and previous week. so can we incorporate a decent length silence (possibly in the intersessions?) during the service?

viki
 

Could we add something to the absolution, to reflect the fact that forgiveness doesn't just give peace, it can also be hugely challenging as we can't use the excuse "I'll just get it wrong" to not do something? I'm not 100% happy with the following, but it's all I could come up with for this:

Following on from bb's absolution,

The Lord forgives; never too much,
never too little.
In the Lord there is perfection and peace.
Be still and receive the forgiveness and peace of the Lord.

{pause}

Accepting that forgiveness we must now move on,
to try again where we have fallen, no matter how often.
In offering forgiveness before we can even ask for it,
the Lord calls us beyond the safety of our failures,
into the unknown depths of God's disturbing love.

One final final thing (honest!) - I've noticed there is only one pronoun outside of the psalm that refers to God. Could we do the whole liturgy with no 'he' or 'she' referring to God? Then it's comfortable whatever gender you perceive God as being.
 

NB I'm certainly an amateur too - the idea of anyone describing me as a professinal liturgy writer struck me as very funny!

Maybe I should have a gin and try again...
 

I'll work on it
 

had some more thoughts in church tonight.....

We believe in Jesus Christ who dies for us, so that we might live for him. He is the divine fool, who spoke against the wisdom of the world, and turned the worldy order topsy-turvy. He calls us to be fools for him now, although not idiots!
We believe in one God; Creator, Saviour, and Helper, a divine mystery we cannot comprehend.
We believe in a God who cradles our weaknesses in the palm of his hand, whilst inspiring us with his strength.

not sure whether this is now making sense, had a long day...

viki
 

grant that we, trusting in your everlasting love for us, may be prepared to defy the conventions of our age, to expect to find your presence in unlikely places and to use the skills and resources you have given us to spread the Gospel message;

through Jesus Christ Our Lord, who,defying the expectation of his enemies, is alive and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen

-------------------------------------

I'm not over-happy with it yet - the language is rather formal compared with the other material, but that's just how I am!

Please feel free to make alterations - but not please to the actual structure. A collect is not just a prayer - it is a prayer with a specific structure (which I have tried to follow) and a specific purpose (in this case to spell out some of the theme of the service).

Over to you guys!
 

tonyk, i like it. it's not hugely formal. and (within my church anyhow) the collect for the day is usually a bit more formal than our service structure and responses etc.... my 3.58340893pence for what it's worth

viki
 

Sieg
 

I know things haven't been easy recently and we've all had many more serious concerns to address - but I'd hate to see this mini-project fade away!

Ideas, guys?
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by TonyK:
Ideas, guys?

---

how about someone pulls up what we have so far, both the bits that are definite, and the bits people have written, saying 'well i thought this might be a starting place...'

that would make it easier (in my mind at least) to see what we have/haevn't figured out, and therefore what we needed to think on

is this possible?

viki
 

Now we have the basics if anyone has any new ideas they can be always be alternatives and extra resources ... kinda like in most books of liturgy.
 

bb
 

• How about amending Joan't'D's sentence to Go with God, God goes with you ?
  
• Tony K's collect, first sentence, uses 'world' twice, how about replacing the 2nd time with 'humanity', or something else?
  
• can we have, somewhere, 'our hearts are restless till they find their rest in you'? Collect for 16th Sunday after Trinity
  

And baby bear, yes, I'd love to assist with Harvest / Advent stuff ... shall we start with Advent to give us time to get it ready ... new thread ?
 

Lord, we have said too much and said too little.
(pause to reflect on insensitive remarks and lack of comfort/encouraging remarks)

Lord, we have done too much and done too little.
(pause to reflect on being too busy and procrastinating)

Lord, we have prayed too much and prayed too little.
(pause to reflect on praying to change the order of things to suit ourselves and ignoring real injustice)

Lord, we have thought too much and thought too little.
(pause to reflect on hair-splitting and prejudice)

Lord, we have loved too much and loved too little.
(pause to reflect on infatuation or smother-love and ignoring those who don't interest you)

Lord, we have confessed too much, and confessed too little.
(reflect on the minor transgressions that you've blown up so that they obscure the major transgressions.)

Lord,
You know all that is said and unsaid,
done and undone,
prayed for and unprayed for,
thought and ignored,
loved and unloved,
confessed and hidden.

The Lord forgives; never too much,
never too little.
In the Lord there is perfection and peace.
Be still and receive the forgiveness and peace of the Lord.
{pause}
Accepting that forgiveness we must now move on,
to try again where we have fallen, no matter how often.
In offering forgiveness before we can even ask for it,
the Lord calls us beyond the safety of our failures,
into the unknown depths of God's disturbing love.

Collect
O Lord our God, who uses the foolish things of the world to confound the
wise, and sent our Lord Jesus to be a stumbling-block and a challenge to the world;

grant that we, trusting in your everlasting love for us, may be prepared to defy the conventions of our age, to expect to find your presence in unlikely places and to use the skills and resources you have given us to spread the Gospel message;

through Jesus Christ Our Lord, who,defying the expectation of his enemies, is alive and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen

Psalm 34, or otherwise (Fiona Jane Brown)

I cried unto the Lord and He heard me,
And sent me the love of all my dear friends,
The Angel of the Lord encamps round about them that fear Him,
And creates a shield from the prayers of those closest to me.

Such kindness and friendship in a wicked world,
Was indeed a treasure to discover.
An oasis in the boiling seas of life,
Where all my shipmates came to gather round me.
I had not thought such love
Still existed in this fast decaying time,
But you all care more than any
A balm to a troubled spirit and frightened heart.
Reminded me who holds the chart,
Who the pilot of my ship is,
Who has the answers and listens when I scream and stamp.
Who puts the sun behind the clouds
To burst through a billion times brighter
When the storm passes.

My guardian angels were the hearts of my friends,
There in the time of need,
Let me praise you and the Captain,
Whose sons and daughters we all are,
For giving such clear assurance,
He's still in charge.
----------------------------
Land ahoy, me lads,
The Journey won't be much longer,
Press on towards the shore,
To gain an eternal harbour secure.

Credo (Sarkycow, Joanthedwarf)
we believe in unrest, to separate the chaff from the wheat.
we believe in doubt, in questions, in opinions. god has them; jesus has them, why shouldn't we?
we believe in ourselves - the only people who can change things.
we believe in jesus, the subversive, the rebel. he regarded people rather than laws as important. he felt all feelings, including anger, pain and abandonment.
we believe in a god who uses misfits, oddballs, unlikely, ordinanry people to tell his story.
We believe in love, that comforts and challenges, that never lets us stay still but always draws us towards God.
We believe in Jesus Christ who dies for us, so that we might live for him. He is the divine fool, who spoke against the wisdom of the world, and turned the worldy order topsy-turvy. He calls us to be fools for him now, although not idiots!
We believe in one God; Creator, Saviour, and Helper, a divine mystery we cannot comprehend.
We believe in a God who cradles our weaknesses in the palm of his hand, whilst inspiring us with his strength.

The Peace (Campbellite)
God loves you, and there is nothing you can do about it."

Lord's Prayer
God, whose home is heaven, who we on Earth love, and laugh with, and revere, may we help to build your Kingdom right here and now, uniting Earth with Heaven in one creation centred on you and living by your light and your love.

You became an embodied spirit, like us, and you know our needs of body and soul. May we have what we need to live so that we may give ourselves wholly to you.

Challenged by the knowledge of your complete forgiveness, help us to forgive others. Forgive us that we are afraid to receive only the forgiveness we have given.

We believe you will not break us, but if we must be tested for your glory and our growth then give us strength.

Do not abandon us in the darkness that is sometimes our own minds, and stand between us and others who may try to imprison us in the darkness of the world.

We ask this of you because from you comes all goodness and love, all strength and all the light that pierces the darkness, for all time and outside time.

Dismissal (Paul sheppy)
The worship is over; the service begins.
Go, people of Go, into God's world.
Mett Christ in friend and stranger,
serve him in all you meet.
And may the blessing of God,
Father, Son and Holy Spirit fill you
and the whole of creation,
now and always.

The Worship is over, the service begins
Go with God, Stay with God
 

[bidding prayer]
Spirit of the living God, As we pray Open in our hearts the unrestful spirit within, that as you come among us, we will accept you. We come expecting much, let us go away refreshed and thankful.You know our secrets, and our lives. Let us lay them before you, that we which we do too much and too little. You who are embodied in us now, show your spirit through our hands and feet, our lips and lives.

Lord, hear our prayer[ans] And when you call, let us come unto thee.

In rest and quietness, we watch and pray.
 

let us lay our lives before you, those things that we do, too much and too little.

And the last bit should be in "thee/thou" - I was trying to write in the dialect I used for many years, where thee and thy are the personal pronouns, and you is the impersonal, or the plural.
 

quote:

---

The Worship is over, the service begins

---

Please no! Anything but that . . . it's sooo cheesy . . .
I think it works better just omitting it . . .
 

Lord God, who uses foolishness to confound the wise, and who sent our Lord Jesus as a stumbling-block and challenge for the world;

may we, trusting in your everlasting love for us, be prepared to defy the conventions of our age, to expect to find your presence in unlikely places and to use the skills and resources you have given us to spread your message;

through Jesus Christ Our Lord, who, frustrating the expectation of his enemies, is alive and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen
 

Never mind, we can continue to tweak it anyway.
 

And why make things more 'formal'? I thought that this was to be for personal use.

bb
 

bb
 

Re: a canticle what do people think of the following which I wrote at the end of last term. It wasn't written specifically with Christian unrest in mind but it might fit.

God, Creator of all that is,
You cannot be pinned down
Defined, caged in, summed up;
We might try in theology or religion,
To say God is x or y;
He belongs to us;
But you ARE;
Beyond our exclusiveness,
Our cliques, our firm boundaries
Always leading us on,
Pillar of fire or cloud
The wind blowing where it wills
A butterfly calling us onwards
Fluttering just out of our grasp

And yet,
On the cross you were pinned down
Or rather up.
Nailed there, left to die
Dead and buried.
Out of sight,
Gone.

Or so we thought
But, Unpinnabledown God
You could not be contained in that cage of death
Burst from the tomb
Rose Again

Carys
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Angel of the North:
OK - collected so far:

(The Confession)
...
The Lord forgives; never too much,
never too little.
In the Lord there is perfection and peace.
Be still and receive the forgiveness and peace of the Lord.
{pause}
Accepting that forgiveness we must now move on,
to try again where we have fallen, no matter how often.
In offering forgiveness before we can even ask for it,
the Lord calls us beyond the safety of our failures,
into the unknown depths of God's disturbing love.

---

I got the sense earlier that the view on this thread was that the section in italics was a bit out of place--I think Joan (who wrote it) said as much her(?)self. I'm just not sure where. But I agree it doesn't quite fit where it is.
 

Carys
 

Carys
 

what is the function of a canticle? where does it fit into the service/liturgy? is it just for the leader to say, or does everyone join in?

thanks,

viki
 

quote:

---

what is the function of a canticle? where does it fit into the service/liturgy? is it just for the leader to say, or does everyone join in?

---

Not sure I can define a canticle but as no-one else has tried, I'll give it a go.

They tend to be like a psalm but not from the book of psalms (but the Venite is a psalm and used as a canticle in Morning Prayer). Some are biblical, for instance at Evening prayer the commonest canticles are the Magnificat and Nunc Dimitis (they're named after their beginning in Latin, they Mary's song (My soul magnifies the Lord) and the Song of Simeon (Lord now you let your servant depart in peace)). But others were written by the early church like the Te Deum. Not quite sure I'd like to say what makes something a canticle. I've never worked out what to call 'Unpinnabledown God' I just wrote it. It's not exactly a poem nor a meditation.

As too use, they are often sung, either to Anglican chant or to settings. . When chanted often by the whole congregation (not necessarily well) but settings tend to be choir only, but can also be said, often responsively.

Carys
 

And, babybear, some of us are comfiest with the old forms at times. I've said what I wrote, in thou form, and it feels nicer. Given most of this is in modern english, and is meant to be a fusion of traditions - basically what each of us brings to it.

I use thee and thou, unconsciously, in speech. Trying to think it into coherent written english doesn't happen often, hence the blunder.

I love Carys's piece - I've seen it before, hence not commenting here before now.

Angel
 

quote:

---

Argh, no 'thee's and 'thou's. People (with a very few local exceptions) have not spoken like that for years and years.

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No, but they have remained in the liturgy (what does it say about the English that we've lost our familiar pronouns?) and I for one feel that you is colder when someone has 'modernised' something and taken the thee's and thou's out. It is a problem, I just wish English hadn't lost the distinction. Using 'ti' (the Welsh familiar form) to God really brought his nearness home to me, we can be familiar to him. Unfortunately people (like the Trinitarian Bible Society) miss understand this in English.

Carys
 

If people would like to discuss 'thee' and 'thou' then please take it elsewhere for the time being. I really do not feel able to cope with this discussion, yet again, right now.

These particular words tend to bring out the dogmatic side of people (including me). Let's put language issues onto the back burner for a few weeks.

This is merely a request from this particular host.

bb
----
MW Host
 

What is happening with the liturgy? s3 has been very quiet round here of late.

Carys
 

Angel
 

How about this as a possible Advent Collect?

Lord Jesus the Christ,
who was content to be born of a woman,
laid in a trough,
and honoured by outcasts,
and who has promised to come again on the clouds
when every eye shall see you;
come to us now.
Open our eyes to see those people that the world casts out,
open our hearts to care for those issues that make us uncomfortable,
open our hands to do the work that you set before us.
Come and disturb us in our comfortable complacency
that we might strive for your righteousness and your kingdom,
and so glorify your holy name.
All this we ask for your love's sake. Amen.

Looks a bit wordy to me - but what do the rest of you think?
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joan the Dwarf:
One more thing, then I'll shut up -

Could we add something to the absolution, to reflect the fact that forgiveness doesn't just give peace, it can also be hugely challenging as we can't use the excuse "I'll just get it wrong" to not do something?

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At our parish the rector adds at the end of absolution words to the effect: "And now, forgive one another.... and forgive yourself.", which think drives to one of the points you made. Self forgiveness IS a challenge.

Lou
 

I really rather like that.