Thread: Kerygmania: Humour in the Old Testament? Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Storyteller (# 5320) on :
 
Is there humour in the OT or is it just me?
What do shipmates think is side-splitting when read in the holy book or heard from the lectern?
Is humour the intention of the original writer(s) or is it all in the perception of you and me the readers?
I am looking forward to a very long string of responses with examples of what may be humourous to one reader and perhaps may not so amusing to others. Are shipmates up to it? We shall see.


[ 19. November 2013, 01:15: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
C.S.Lewis was married to a Jewish woman who had converted to Christianity. He said that she had told him that Jews find parts of the OT very funny. One specific example he gave was Abraham's bargaining with God about whether Sodom and Gomorrah should be destroyed.

One OT passage which strikes me very funny is Moses's speech in Numbers 11:4-15. I didn't recognize the humor until I heard it read aloud by someone who thought Moses's whining self-pity was hilarious.

Storyteller, welcome to the ship and to Kerygmania. Congratulations on a very interesting first post. I assume you have familiarized yourself with the Kerygmania guidelines as well as the 10 Commandments. Enjoy the voyage!

Moo

[ 16. December 2003, 18:36: Message edited by: Moo ]
 

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Posted by Adrienne (# 2334) on :
 
...just read the Numbers passage in a whiney-voice...

I think Jeremiah 13 (1-11) - in which the Lord tells Jeremiah to bury his underwear - is hilarious. Try a resigned, mildly Pythonesque voice...maybe it's just me...

A
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Judges 3 -- Ehud the left-handed and Eglon the fat -- is a riot. Especially when Ehud gives the death-stab to Eglon, and then locks him in "the upper room" and his servants outside hear him groaning but figure he's just taking a dump so they don't rush in until it's too late (even then, they wait until the point of embarassment which i find delightful).
 

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Posted by andras (# 2065) on :
 

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What do shipmates think is side-splitting when read in the holy book or heard from the lectern

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Then Moses heard the people weep throughout their families, every man in the door of his tent: and the anger of the Lord was kindled greatly; Moses also was displeased.

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He had forty sons and thirty grandsons, who rode on seventy donkeys. He led Israel for eight years. Judges 12:14

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If a man loudly blesses his neighbour early in the morning, it will be taken as a curse. Proverbs 27:14

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Actually Eve gives a realistic and accurate account of what happened. "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." That's what happened.

Adam on the other hand tries to throw it back on God. "The woman, which THOU gavest me...."

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Posted by Lioba (# 42) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by psyduck:
NEAM:

quote:

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Actually Eve gives a realistic and accurate account of what happened. "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." That's what happened.

Adam on the other hand tries to throw it back on God. "The woman, which THOU gavest me...."

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quote:

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Originally posted by psyduck:

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quote:

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What do shipmates think is side-splitting when read in the holy book or heard from the lectern?

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Here's another - Tobit has, as far as I'm aware, the original archetype of the Jewish Mother fussing over him before he sets off on his travels, worrying out loud about all the dangers he will face and whether he will ever come back to her.

She doesn't know that his travelling companion is the Archangel Raphael; though even if she did, I suspect that she'd be no easier in her mind or quieter in her opinions.

In the NT, I've always been amused by the reaction of the Woman at the Well in Samaria who simply tells Jesus when he promises her living water, Sir, you haven't got a bucket! Read aloud in the right tone of voice, that one gets the real laugh that I'm sure was intended.

John
 

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Posted by Ponty'n'pop (# 5198) on :
 
At the wedding of Ponty and Mrs Ponty, a selection from the book of proverbs was read, including gems such as:

21v9: "Better to live on a roof than share a house with a nagging wife."
 

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Posted by Talitha (# 5085) on :
 
I suppose there's also Peter at the Transfiguration: Let's build three shelters, one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah...

Peter, the prototypical church committee member. Practicalities first, then we can get on with being amazed at the miracle.
 

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Posted by frin (# 9) on :
 
The bit where the Rachel fakes having a period in order to run off with the household Gods is quite funny (Genesis 31). It's like a biblical legitimation for bunking of sports lessons.

Ezekiel is the foundation text for all situationist protest. I especially like the bit where Ezekiel (during his representation of the iniquity which will be wrought on Israel) bargains with God that he should only have to cook his food on cow dung, and not human dung, because God's original idea grosses him out (Ezekiel chapter 4).

And I can't remember off the top of my head who is ordered to go and bury some underwear in the banks of a river to make an almighty point about the state of the nation, though I do remember that Dyfrig was asked to read it at an advent service after a mix up with the chapter numbers.

The Old Testament is full of hilarious moments and bitter ironies. Good thread topic.

'frin
 

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Posted by MarkE (# 4660) on :
 
I don't know whether this is true or not but I was once told that all the parables are basically jokes with a message, and that to a first century jew they would have been pretty funny.

Makes sense to me. The format is correct - "and then, you'll never guess what right, this Samaritan came along...."

I love the idea that Jesus was getting ideas across with a sense of humour.
 

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Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
I find the call of Moses quite amusing, with all Moses’ whinging and moaning about being called by God.

<Whiney voice>

But I can’t go and speak to my people ‘cus I’m not very good at talking, an’ what if they don’t believe me, an' can’t you send someone else, ‘cus if they ask I don’t even know what your name is, an’ stuff...

<Thunderous voice>

I AM WHO I AM – NOW GET WITH THE PROGRAM, BUDDY, AND SMART WITH IT!!!
 

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Posted by Storyteller (# 5320) on :
 
What a wonderful ship this is! Seventeen replies in less than 12 hours to my first posting! Replies above read like a little congregation or a big housegroup.
But what do we really think... is the humour we see in the OT (or the NT) the intention of the original writer(s) or is it all our own perception? For example, for what reason do we imagine the original writer included the Ehud/Eglon (Judges 3) story? Is this just an interesting story? Is this told as a joke? Is Judges 3 an example of ancient 'stand-up'? If it is a joke (which appears to be told at the expense of Moabites), does this mean ancient Moabites were to Hebrew writers what the Irish are to English joke-makers and Mexicans are to American joke-makers today? How may a Moabite descendent read this story today? Moreover, how may this story be read and understood in a 'poe-faced' Bible-belt?
 

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Posted by Anselm (# 4499) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Storyteller:
But what do we really think... is the humour we see in the OT (or the NT) the intention of the original writer(s) or is it all our own perception?

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I think that at least some of it is intended - humour is not a recent invention!
It's an odd sort of theology that would exclude the possibility of humour from the intentions of the Biblical storytellers.
Wasn't that part of the plot for "The Name of the Rose"? The monk didn't want his scribes laughing at Aristotle's work on humour - he thought that humour and laughter were ungodly?

I also love the story of Esther. The juxtaposition of characters is delightful! And the scene were Haman begs for mercy from Esther, but the king comes in and thinks he's making a pass at his Queen...


...and then he gets hanged and there's a mass slaughter.
 

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Posted by psyduck (# 2270) on :
 
Of course, the word 'slaughter' contains the word 'laughter'....
 

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Posted by psyduck (# 2270) on :
 
Actually, it was always the height of the gallows that got me in the book of Esther. But I don't think that was meant to be funny....
 

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Posted by daisymay (# 1480) on :
 
Well now, psyduck, you're supposed to get so drunk at Purim that when you're cheering Mordecai and banging away at Haman, you're unable to tell the difference.

Want to join the rabbis in the booze?
 

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Posted by psyduck (# 2270) on :
 
I intend to, Daisymay, as I have an appointment with a certain Rabbi Burns on the 25th of next month! Yes, I had heard edifying tales of Purim! And fancy Haman getting a suspended sentence...

Actually, we're all overlooking another bit of gallows humour in the OT - in Genesis 40, when Joseph tells the butler, inyterpreting his dream that "Pharaoh will lift up your head!" and this good news cheers up the poor old baker so much that he asks for an interp - and gets "Pharaoh will lift up your head - from on top of you !!!"
 

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Posted by Storyteller (# 5320) on :
 

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Originally posted by psyduck:
Of course, the word 'slaughter' contains the word 'laughter'....

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Do you mean like the word 'funeral' contains the word 'fun'?
 

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Posted by irreverentkit (# 4271) on :
 
Elijah and the prophets of Baal, where he taunts them with "where is old Baal, anyway? Maybe he's turned aside from the path ..." (Hebrew euphamism for going off for a whizz)

Also, my OT prof told us that "feet" was a euphamism for sexual organs. So where Ruth lies down that night with Boaz is ....
 

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Posted by Wildthing (# 5323) on :
 

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is the humour we see in the OT (or the NT) the intention of the original writer(s) or is it all our own perception?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anselm:
I also love the story of Esther. The juxtaposition of characters is delightful! And the scene were Haman begs for mercy from Esther, but the king comes in and thinks he's making a pass at his Queen...
...and then he gets hanged and there's a mass slaughter.

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In a similar vein, there's 2 Kings 2:23-25, proving that, when it comes to hair loss at least, Elisha (and God?) can't take a joke. Grumpy old men at their most badass.


 

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Posted by Scot (# 2095) on :
 
Welcome aboard, Wildthing and Rich T!

I hope you enjoy posting in Kerygmania. Please be sure to read the guidelines (top of the board) and the Ship's 10 Commandments (in the menu to the left). If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

scot
Kerygmania Host
 

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Posted by Kyralessa (# 4568) on :
 

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Originally posted by irreverentkit:
Also, my OT prof told us that "feet" was a euphamism for sexual organs. So where Ruth lies down that night with Boaz is ....

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That's been done to death already on this thread.
 

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Posted by Autobailer (# 5357) on :
 
There certainly is humour in the old testament. Particularly in the Hebrew.

I can't believe that no one has given the classic example of the plague of frog (sic) that sat upon the land. (and got in the water pipes and kept everyone up at night...) (The verbatim translation is "And the frog arose and covered the land of Egypt")

(No, I don't read Hebrew- I just have a fair number of Jewish friends interested in religion)

[ 28. December 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: Autobailer ]
 

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Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
Most of my favourites have already been mentioned, particularly Abraham's haggling with God. However, I must add that Aaron's explanation on the lines of "I don't know what happened... we melted gold and this golden calf popped out" is hilarious.

Jacob indeed was a rogue! And I always felt for poor Leah, who was a pawn in a dirty trick, knew that her husband would not have wed her had he not thought she was her sister, and who married a man so lustful and self-centred he was not even aware of with whom he was in bed.

Jesus' own humour could be rich. Yes, I know that most scholars today insist he had no special knowledge of what was ahead - but I still cannot get past giggling when, in the parable of Dives and Lazarus, Lazarus mentions how those who will not listen to the prophets are not going to heed a man who is risen from the dead. Not to mention that I can just imagine the dry inflections when Jesus said he came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

Can anything good come out of Nazareth?
 

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Posted by Hinematov (# 4766) on :
 
I always laugh at the account of the Hebrew midwives putting one over on the King of Egypt by saying, "...the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are lively and give birth before the midwives come to them."

It's just the kind of thing an oppressor would believe about the people who slave for him. "They're not like real people!"

From the New Testament: Luke 22:25

Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors..."

I always imagine Jesus rolling his eyes when he says "Benefactors".

As far as Storyteller's question about the intentionality of biblical humor...

I think most good humor arises from the character of the people portrayed. Anytime you describe the human race accurately, you're going to come up with some pretty funny stuff.

[fixed code]

[ 28. December 2003, 23:37: Message edited by: Moo ]
 

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Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
This may be just my low sense of humour, but I always picture Nathan, after he's told his parable to David after David has sent Uriah off to his death, as a Borshch Belt comedian saying "It's you! It's you! It's you!"

(Imagine the comedian leaping around the throne, beating David about the shoulders with a BladderOnAStick...)

b.
 

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Posted by Timothy (# 292) on :
 
I've always found the childbearing competition between Leah and Rachel pretty funny--not quite sure whether to feel sorry for Jacob or not. But I guess he made his own bed(s)...

Timothy
 

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Posted by ptarmigan (# 138) on :
 
There's a graphic description in one of the Psalms which I remember from my cathedral chorister days, which goes as follows:

"Then the Lord awoke as one out of sleep,
And like a giant refreshed with wine,
He smote His enemies about their hinder parts,
And put them to a perpetual shame".
(Psalm 78 verses 65-66)

(Edited to correct typo)

[ 30. December 2003, 04:18: Message edited by: ptarmigan ]
 

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Posted by psyduck (# 2270) on :
 
Ptarmigan: If the King James is correct in its translation of Samuel, it's possible that this psalm is connected with 1 Sam 5, a rip-roaring, laugh-a-minute haemorrhoid-fest which reduces the Philistines to a laughing stock by the deployment of truly "base" humour. Ch. 6: 17 refers to the five golden haemorrhoids that the Philistine pentapolis had to give as a "trespass offering". I'll look up the MT and Brown Driver and Briggs tomorrow morning if I have time, to see what the original actually is. (It's 25 years since I last looked at this passage closely. I've never preached on it, because it might 'sit uneasily' with my congregation... )

And for the record - I know that the subject matter is no joke...
 

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Posted by Anselm (# 4499) on :
 
I love the incident when Saul get 'crowned' King.

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1 Samuel 10:20-24 (ESV)
[20] Then Samuel brought all the tribes of Israel near, and the tribe of Benjamin was taken by lot. [21] He brought the tribe of Benjamin near by its clans, and the clan of the Matrites was taken by lot; and Saul the son of Kish was taken by lot. But when they sought him, he could not be found. [22] So they inquired again of the Lord, "Is there a man still to come?" and the Lord said, "Behold, he has hidden himself among the baggage." [23] Then they ran and took him from there. And when he stood among the people, he was taller than any of the people from his shoulders upward. [24] And Samuel said to all the people, "Do you see him whom the Lord has chosen? There is none like him among all the people." And all the people shouted, "Long live the king!"

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quote:

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Originally posted by psyduck:
Ptarmigan: If the King James is correct in its translation of Samuel, it's possible that this psalm is connected with 1 Sam 5, a rip-roaring, laugh-a-minute haemorrhoid-fest which reduces the Philistines to a laughing stock by the deployment of truly "base" humour. Ch. 6: 17 refers to the five golden haemorrhoids that the Philistine pentapolis had to give as a "trespass offering". ...

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I was quoting the psalm from the version in the Book of Common Prayer, not "King James". The BCP uses and older (and more poetic) translation, which I think is by Coverdale.

The Samuel passage in my RSV is about "tumours" rather than haemorrhoids.
 

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Posted by psyduck (# 2270) on :
 
'Tumours' is the bland translation of many new versions. I still haven't looked up the etymology of the word in the original... hang on...

The word usually translated "haemorrhoid" ('ophel - from a root meaning 'swell') is the word the consonants of which are found in the text in 1 Samuel 5 (k*thiv). The vowels, however, imply the word t*chor, which is found in the margin (q*re)

According to Brown, Driver and Briggs, the word t*chor in 6:17 (I don't know how to do shewas) derives from an Aramaic vb. t*char, to 'strain at a stool', and there's a Syriac cognate of that meaning 'dysentery'. Hence 'tumours caused by dysentery' or 'haemorrhoids'. The same word is found at Dt. 28:27; The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.

The implication seems to be that either 'ophel or t*chor can mean 'haemorrhoid', and that both clearly mean some sort of sore on the rear end, which is both painful and undignified. A really , really gross joke on the Philistines!!!

Hertzberg, in his Old Testament Library commentary (I knew I'd seen it somewhere! ), makes the connection with Psalm 78, tracing it back to the scholar Thenius, who bases his comparison apparently on the Vulgate.

I have to say that it would be quite a challenge to get an edifying sermon out of any of this...
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by psyduck:
...The vowels, however, imply the word t*chor ... derives from an Aramaic vb. t*char, to 'strain at a stool'

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As well, the Yiddish word tuchus means "posterior, ass, heiny, tushie, butt, booty, gluteus maximus," so there are modern slang words relating to this as well.
 

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Posted by hermit (# 1803) on :
 
I have to agree with Anselm about Jonah, the entire book is hilarious. After interminable whining that would have gotten you or me zapped by lightning or turned into pillars of salt, we have that classic ending of Chapter 4
 

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Posted by Smart Alex (# 1916) on :
 
Can't believe that there has been a discussion on humour in the OT and no-one has mentioned Job.

Quite apart from anything else, I follow the line of thought that sees the outburst from Elihu as the comic light relief in the tense drama of Job engaging with his friends and challenging God. As the debate goes on, it is clear that Job is continually growing in his thoughts and statements, whilst the friends are stuck in the same old loops, endlessly repeating platitude after platitude.

Then Job begins to challenge God to come and meet him face to face. As the drama builds the audience expects God to make his appearance. What comes is Elihu - a blustering, pompous, self-opinionated buffoon who fails to understand the issues and cannot grasp what Job is saying. He blathers on and on and on. When he finally runs out of steam - everyone ignores him.

To appreciate the humour here (and throughout Job), you really need to see or take part in a "performance" of the book. A dramatised reading of the whole thing from start to finish is wonderful and it really highlights just how gut-wrenchingly dumb Elihu is.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote from Smart Alex

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To appreciate the humour here (and throughout Job), you really need to see or take part in a "performance" of the book. A dramatised reading of the whole thing from start to finish is wonderful and it really highlights just how gut-wrenchingly dumb Elihu is.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Moo:
{Tangent alert}
How long does it take to do a dramatized reading? I'm trying to talk my rector into one.
{/Tangent alert}

Moo

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If I remember correctly, the one I took part in lasted about 2.5 hours (with an intermission).
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Job is by far my favourite book of the Bible. I'd love to see a good dramatization.

(I'm also fond of Jonah and Tobit -- guess I'm a sucker for a good story!)

[ 18. January 2004, 04:37: Message edited by: Mousethief ]
 

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Posted by sparklylady (# 4391) on :
 
I always find it really amusing in Genesis 17 v 15-19 when God tells Abraham that Sarah will have a son, and Abraham thinks (to paraphrase), "oh, he CAN'T mean Sarah, silly God, he must mean Ishmael" - and God says, "well, yes, ok, I will bless Ishmael, BUT, I did actually mean Sarah".

Just makes me giggle every time to think of God saying, in effect, "hello? I'm GOD - I think I would know..."
 

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Posted by Glenn316 (# 2988) on :
 
Elisha obviously did NOT have a sence of humor about his baldness!

2Ki 2:23-24 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
 

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Posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I must be sense of humour impaired. I've always found the attempts to describe bits of the bible as funny to be strained.

But that's just me.

Isn't the plague of frog Terry Pratchett rather than the Bible?
 

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Posted by dyfrig (# 15) on :
 
I was reading the opening chapters of 1 Samuel last week, and there's a bit where the people demand that Samuel gives them a king; God tells Samuel that, ok, we'll give them a king like they asked.

The next scene is Saul out in the desert looking for some donkeys. I don't know if it's deliberate, but this juxtaposition struck as very funny - "You want a king? Ok, I'll give you a king - one who's used to rounding up donkeys."
 

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Posted by Prorochitsa (# 1439) on :
 
Just reread the story of Jonah and the whale with my son and it struck me as appropriate for this thread. Jonah thinks he's got to go all the way to Tarshish to escape the presence of God, but it's when he's stuck in a bellyful of half-digested local fish that he comes up with a really eloquent prayer ---and then the chapter ends with a bang as he gets spat up onto shore.
 

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Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :
 
One of my favourites, and the reason for my online persona, is the story of Balaam. Numbers 22 onwards.

One of the Theophanies (Where God puts in a physical apperance in the form of The Angel of the LORD) God blocks the road but Balaam, supposedly the great prophet, can't see him, but the ass can.

Wonderfully ironic.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
And then the donkey tells him off.

Actually, sparkleylady, the Abram/ Ishamel story ispretty funny. Thanks for holding it up.

My favorite bible humour story is when a fed-up Jesus tells a nagging Peter to go fetch the taxes out of a fish's mouth. Or rather, he bawls Peter out for answering a political question for him(whether or not he paid taxes), then tells him to catch a fish and look in its mouth. Peter of course finds two coins for the tax in the fish's mouth.

Boy, do I become an inerrantist when I read that story. I really want to believe that Jesus was such a master of wordless sarcasm.

 

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Posted by lamb chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I just love the bit where God is talking to Moses after the Israelites have screwed up AGAIN, and he says, "The people YOU brought out of Egypt. . ." And right away Moses correct him: "Oh no, the people YOU brought out of Egypt. . ."
 

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Posted by ekalb (# 2642) on :
 
In think Paul's NT remark about the 'judaizers' going the 'whole way' with circumcision is pretty funny...
As far as OT stuff goes, I think that Gideon's story is pretty hilarious. Maybe it's just me, but I can't help but picture Woody Allen as Gideon if ever the movie is made.
 

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Posted by Newman's Own+ (# 420) on :
 
If I may be permitted to stray into the NT once again...

It only recently occurred to me that Paul is being exceedingly ironic and wry in the 1st letter to the Corinthians. Where, in other epistles, he praises the recipients' faith, love, and so forth, all he seems to find to praise in Corinth is their 'knowledge' - and, in this letter and others, it becomes all too plain that knowledge is not something Paul values in the least.

The conflicts between Peter and Paul always have their very funny side - I have a vivid mental picture that neither one of them would have been particularly pleasant sorts with which to deal. Those who were 'of Cephas' probably were exceedingly vacillating - all the more if one recalls that, in the 'Antioch' references in Acts, Paul is scolding Peter for upholding the Jewish ways then joining the Gentiles at table. Paul may be all things to all people, but, when Peter does it, it is ... I suppose just as inconsistent as one would expect of Peter, given his performance in the gospels.

One other scene which puzzles me (almost as much as my wondering why the sower planted the seeds on bad ground in the first place) is when the soldiers guarding the tomb of Jesus tell of what happened while they were asleep - and this on the advice of lawyers! It seems that the only ones who are not considering that he may leave the tomb were the believers.
 

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Posted by rewboss (# 566) on :
 
Can't think exactly where it is now, but there's a story in the OT where soldiers trap a load of Baal's priests in the temple, wade in, slaughter the lot and then demolish the temple. Then, by way of a footnote, the passage concludes: "...and the ruins are used as a latrine to this day."

A lot of the humour in the OT (and also the NT) is certainly intended. And why not? Humour is a very effective rhetorical device, and as far as I'm concerned, the ability to laugh is a gift of God.
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
Ezekiel 23:20 ff is so over-the-top, in calling Israel/Judah to task for their wandering from God, I always laugh when I read it.

Prolly oughta mention that in TnT before it goes away.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
Originally posted by Wasilla and transferred from his 'OT humor' thread

quote:

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I'm gald that a few people mentioned Esther. The description of the party is hilarious. This book seems to have recorded history's first "dirty old man" (Ahaureus agreeing with the suggestion of how he might proceed to select a new Queen), and the world's first recorded feminist (Ashti refusing to dance for the drunks). The story also records what might be the first slapstick routine, when the King, having just re-read the chronicles and having just been reminded of what Uncle Mordecai had done for him, meets the villain Haman, just as Haman is about to propose having Mordecai hanged. I have gotten a few people to actually read the Bible for the first time by talking up Esther.

I also like Jonah. I particularly like the scene where Jonah, sitting in a puddle of whale-puke on the beach, hears God's voice, reminding him about that gig in Ninevah. "OK, OK, I'm going already!"

The last verse in Jonah is also funny, sort of. But it is also moving.

Esther was my first venture into reading the Bible. I was curious when I read an account in National Geographic about the path of Moses, in which it was reported that the Dead Sea Scrolls contained fragments of every Old Testament book except Esther, "the only book in the Bible in which God is not mentioned."

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Posted by lamb chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I rather like the bit where the people of Israel have screwed up, once again, while they're out in the wilderness (can't remember what, idolatry probably) and God says to Moses, "Now LEAVE ME ALONE and I will destroy them." Lemme at'em! Lemme at'em!

I picture a great big snarling dog doing his best to get past a mouse . . .
 

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Posted by GraceCantsin (# 6116) on :
 
Then Saul said, "Thus shall you say to David, 'The king desires no marriage present except a hundred foreskins of the Philistines'" (1 Samuel 18:25)
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
And David took that bid and raised him another hundred!
 

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Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kyralessa:

quote:

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Originally posted by irreverentkit:
Also, my OT prof told us that "feet" was a euphamism for sexual organs. So where Ruth lies down that night with Boaz is ....

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That's been done to death already on this thread.

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err.. my 'pooter keeps telling me the thread doesn't exist - help?!
(am leading study on RUth 3 in fortnight, so am interested in passing)
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
The feet=genitalia question is not 100% clear (certainly not in Ruth 3). But on the whole, I think that Ruth 3 makes more sense if you assume that Ruth is uncovering Boaz's "tackle" whilst he is in a drunken stupor. He wakes up, with everything on display and with a pretty girl lying beside him and (like so many men since) wonders to himself "Did I? No - surely I'd remember.... But then again...." As a result, he is kick-started into making "an honest woman" of Ruth.

What is implied in Ruth 2 & 3 but not said outright is that Ruth and Boaz fancy each other like mad. But, again like most men, Boaz hasn't got a clue how to make the right move until Ruth makes it utterly clear where she stands (or lies) on the matter. It is important to notice that she acts at the end of the harvest - basically, Boaz has had a few weeks to get his act together and now, at the last moment, Ruth takes control.

The alternative interpretation is that Ruth uncovered his feet in some obscure gesture of submission - which is rather bizarre if you consider that throughout the book, Ruth is portrayed clearly as someone who is anything but submissive.

The more I read through Ruth, the more I think "Mills and Boon" for some inexplicable reason....
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
It is the end of the harvest. These people have been working flat out in the open for three weeks. Hard physcial work in the summer heat.

At the end of the harvest they have a party. They drink wine. Lots of it. There is singing, and dancing. It all goes on till after dark. No-one goes home - they crash out on the threshing-floor.
All those people are lying about pissed as farts. Ruth is sleeping in a room stuffed full of drunken agricultural labourers.

Boaz is traditionally thought to have been a middle-aged or even elderly bloke. He's been working hard. He's exhausted. Knackered. But he's proud too - it's his farm, his land, his harvest. His lads have got the work done on time. The barns are full and he's set uyp for winter. He's a rich man, respected, prosperous, powerful - though for some reason still unmarried.

He's almost certainly rather drunk. He's crashed out on the floor of his barn, or in the yard just outside. Maybe he's got his head on a bale of hay. He's on his own though.

It is dark. Flat-out pitch dark. Up comes this young woman he fancies, snuggles close to him, ands whispers something like "protect me from all these rough young men". Or maybe she just shoves her hand into his loin-cloth and grabs hold of whatever she finds there.

Mills & Boon ain't in it.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
We have had this discussion many times over the last few years, and I still refuse to accept this interpretation. I don't think it fits in with the preceding events in the book.

Ruth is the Gentile widow of a Jewish man. After her husband's death she attaches herself to her (former) mother-in-law and says that from now on her mother-in-law's people will be her people. She wants to become Jewish, and her mother-in-law tells her what to do.

In the scene on the threshing floor she is following Naomi's instruction exactly. Can you imagine a woman whose son is dead giving instructions to that son's widow on how to seduce another man? I can't.

Naomi was telling Ruth how to get Boaz to do his duty as a kinsman-redeemer.

The word 'foot' sometimes means genitals. It means foot far more often. There is also other symbolism connected with feet and their covering.

Here is Ruth 4:7-8;
Now this was the custom in former times in Israel concerning redeeming and exchanging: to confirm a transaction, one party took off a sandal and gave it to the other; this was the manner of attesting in Israel. 8So when the next-of-kin said to Boaz, 'Acquire it for yourself', he took off his sandal.

To repeat a point I have already made, read the entire book and ask yourself if the prior behavior of Ruth and Naomi fits in with the interpretation that, following Naomi's advice, Ruth uncovered Boaz's genitals unless you believe that this was the customary way for a widow to claim protection from her husband's relatives.. My understanding of Jewish social and religious laws is that this is extremely unlikely.

Moo

[ 27. May 2004, 12:35: Message edited by: Moo ]
 

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Posted by frogluj (# 5294) on :
 
There are so many favourites! Most have already been done, but one I found yesterday, judges 1 v 6-8, cracked me up. The Israelites are conquering the surrounding areas...

'(King)Adoni-Bezek escaped, but the Israelites soon captured him and cut off his thumbs and big toes. Adoni-bezek said, "I once had seventy kings with thumbs and big toes cut off, eating scraps from under my table...."'


And Genesis20 v 26, not long before many really odd rules about mildew...

'And you may not approach my altar by steps. If you do, someone might look up under the skirts of your clothing and see your nakedness.'
The ever practical God.
 

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Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :
 
my lot's in with Moo on this one (Ruth)

was only wondering if there was a Hebrew thing I didn't know about. Seems not ergo, I'll go with the context.


btw,

Q : which scottish football team crops up in the Bible?

A : Queen of the South



(betcha haven't heard that one before)
 

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Posted by ONUnicorn (# 7331) on :
 
1st Samuel, 24...

The whole thing is funny, but verse three takes the cake "And Saul went into the cave to relieve himself".


I have no idea where it is, but somewhere in Kings or Chronicals there is a king who is murdered while using the (equivilant of) restroom. His advisors waited outside "to the point of embarassment". That's pretty funny there.

(and I'm not normally a fan of potty humor!!!)
 

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Posted by Halcyon Sailor (# 5270) on :
 
I think Tarantino would be perfect for handling some of those darker sections in Judges and such; he'd bring a whole new humorous twist to them.
 

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Posted by Custard123 (# 5402) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ONUnicorn:

I have no idea where it is, but somewhere in Kings or Chronicals there is a king who is murdered while using the (equivilant of) restroom. His advisors waited outside "to the point of embarassment". That's pretty funny there.

(and I'm not normally a fan of potty humor!!!)

---

Eglon, king of Moab, assassinated by Ehud in Judges 3ish
 

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Posted by Sebastian (# 7494) on :
 
On the original topic of humor here... I have always thought the bit about Balaam in the Old Testament (Numbers 22) was amazing - heh!

God's got some sense of humor to humiliate Balaam (Balaam needed this) by being rebuked/scolded by HIS OWN DONKEY!!

But don't take my word for it - check out the text for yourself at
http://bible.gospelcom.net
type in "Numbers 22" and hit "go" (without the quotes of course)

Sebastian

[ 12. July 2004, 06:02: Message edited by: Sebastian ]
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:
We have had this discussion many times over the last few years, and I still refuse to accept this interpretation. I don't think it fits in with the preceding events in the book.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
My understanding is that the Israelites had a very earthy sense of humour. The whole Threshing Floor incident strikes me as an example of this.

Boaz - rich, influential Israelite man
Ruth - poor, Moabite woman

Who comes out on top? Not only does she get Boaz to make the move she wants him to make, she does so in a way that would have the audience sniggering even more at his embarassment.

Mills and Boon suddenly goes Channel 5 late night. It's brilliant.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sebastian:
On the original topic of humor here... I have always thought the bit about Balaam in the Old Testament (Numbers 22) was amazing - heh!

God's got some sense of humor to humiliate Balaam (Balaam needed this) by being rebuked/scolded by HIS OWN DONKEY!!

---

quote:

---

There is another Old Testament story which has something in common with this--the story of Judah and Tamar. Do you think this is meant to be funny? I grant you it has elements of humor, but it also makes an important point about the obligation of the men in a family towards the childless widows of their relatives.

---

Yes, it does make an important point about the rights of women to have a place in society (no matter how strange by modern norms). It is a story also full of irony and humour, and it's a personal fave in the OT humour department.

The rabbis said of this story "the Torah laughs at men" (Genesis Rabbah 85.9). (A feminist might say the same of it, with a slightly different nuance!)

In its context, it's in the story of Judah and his brothers and how they sold Joseph and tricked Jacob that he'd been killed. The one who deceptively asked his father to "discern" (Gen 37.32), has a moment of truth when he has to "discern" (Gen 38.25) The one who used a kid and a garment to deceive his father, is himself deceived with a garment and a kid.

When Tamar is sitting at the "gates of Enaim" (= "opening of the eyes" in Hebrew), Judah fails to see who she really is.

Judah's double standards are made ridiculously clear, when he's willing to execute his daughter-in-law for a crime he has participated in, and which he drove her to.

I guess it's amusing in a clever-irony way, rather than a laugh-out-loud way, but I still enjoy it.

And there's a happy ending, feisty heroine, and Tamar's one of Jesus' great-grandmas.

[ 17. September 2004, 06:56: Message edited by: jemimarrr ]
 

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Posted by jemimarrr (# 8474) on :
 
Sorry, though I'd managed to do the link to the text - please forgive a newbie.

Story of Judah and Tamar

(fingers crossed)
 

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Posted by Cedd (# 8436) on :
 
Leviticus 10:

1 Aaron's sons Nadab and Abihu took their censers, put fire in them and added incense; and they offered unauthorized fire before the LORD , contrary to his command. 2 So fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD .


There is also a similar story about 250 thurifers getting burned up in much the same way. I like to share this with the serving team on Sundays, keeps them on their toes.
 

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Posted by hild (# 6042) on :
 
Yrmenlaf always says Esther is the funniest book in the Bible. And that you have to give Haman John Cleese's voice - at its most - well - cleesish...
 

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Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
I just discovered this thread. I way too often find myself carefully studying my toes during the OT (and some NT) readings in order to hide my smirks.

In future I will try to note the passages and thus be able to contribute.

I'm also going to check out whether Balaam's donkey isn't in the RC lectionary cycle or just happens to be tucked away on some obscure weekday.
 

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Posted by jinglebellrocker (# 8493) on :
 
1 Samuel 18:25-27
"Saul replied, "Say to David, 'The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Phillistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.' "Saul's plan was to have David fall by the hands of the Phillistines. When the attendants told David these things, he was pleased to become the king's son-in-law. So before the alloted time elapsed, David and his men went out and killed 200 Phillistines. He brought their foreskins and presented the full number to the king so that he might become the king's son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage.

What kind of a bride-price is that? And then David actually went and paid it!!!
 

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Posted by FlatEric (# 7391) on :
 
My favorite funny bit that i haven't seen in is in Job where God gets sarcsatic on Job. Job 38.19-21 where God is talking about how he created outer space and he says, "Surely you know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great!" OUCH! Basically, "you're just a young punk, what do you know!"
 

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Posted by FlatEric (# 7391) on :
 
I thought of another one! When the Philistines take the Ark of The Convenant and are struck with a plauge of mice and hemmeroids, and the cure is that they must make gold images of both. Imagine being the model for that sculpture!
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlatEric:
Imagine being the model for that sculpture!

---

Moo
 

---

Posted by Yrmenlaf (# 8392) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselm:
I also love the story of Esther. The juxtaposition of characters is delightful! And the scene were Haman begs for mercy from Esther, but the king comes in and thinks he's making a pass at his Queen...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hild:
Yrmenlaf always says Esther is the funniest book in the Bible. And that you have to give Haman John Cleese's voice - at its most - well - cleesish...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jinglebellrocker:
1 Samuel 18:25-27
"Saul replied, "Say to David, 'The king wants no other price for the bride than a hundred Phillistine foreskins, to take revenge on his enemies.' "Saul's plan was to have David fall by the hands of the Phillistines. When the attendants told David these things, he was pleased to become the king's son-in-law. So before the alloted time elapsed, David and his men went out and killed 200 Phillistines. He brought their foreskins and presented the full number to the king so that he might become the king's son-in-law. Then Saul gave him his daughter Michal in marriage.

What kind of a bride-price is that? And then David actually went and paid it!!!

---

And more to the point... the cost was one hundred, the suplly 200... what did David do with the other hundred? Or did some spoil in transit? Or hell, maybe they just got so into the swing of killing philistines that they lost count...
 

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Posted by Moriarty (# 8960) on :
 
I find the excuse offered by Aaron for making the bull-calf (Ex 32 vs 24) funny:

"I asked them to bring me their gold ornaments, and those who had them gave them to me. I THREW THE ORNAMENTS INTO THE FIRE AND OUT CAME THIS BULL CALF!!!"
 

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Posted by bubbles (# 9066) on :
 
I had to giggle in church when 1 Kings 2:23-25n was read:

'From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said....'
etc... and then the youths get eaten by bears.

Let that be a lesson to the youth of today
 

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Posted by Sinisterial (# 5834) on :
 
[Bump]
 

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Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
I recommend the best way to bump a thread is to post something scintillating.

Pyx_e , Kerygmania Host.
 

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Posted by Tweedle (# 10669) on :
 
I always smile at Ecclesiastes, since someone mentioned it sounded like Eyeore. 'Useless. It's all useless....'
 

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Posted by Fool on the hill (# 9428) on :
 
Numbers chapter 11! What a riot! "You want meat, you whiny bunch of wanderers, I'll give you meat.........." Hahahahaha

The one about the talking donkey is pretty funny too. I also used to like to tell my children the story aobut Samuel waking up his adoptive father over and over again. GET THEE BACK TO BED, for crying out loud! If He speaks again, ANSWER HIM, and leave me alone to sleep!


 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
<bump>
 

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Posted by pimple (# 10635) on :
 
I think I have only on one occasion found myself, in church, biting the inside of my cheek as hard as possible. It was one Evensong when, along with the rest of the choir, I was trying to sing Psalm 147 in one's best, passsionate but asexual voice. I was a tenor then, and the part was a bit high for me.

When we reached verse 10, I noticed that not one member of the choir dared to look another straight in the face:

He hath no pleasure in the strength of an horse: neither delighteth he in any man's legs.
 

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Posted by Yakov (# 10943) on :
 
I always thought Artscroll's bowlderization of Song of Songs to be pretty funny.

If you've never seen it, or don't know what I'm talking about, you're lucky!
 

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Posted by andreas1984 (# 9313) on :
 
Yakov is back? Wow! Great blog mate! Happy New Year!
 

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Posted by pooka (# 11425) on :
 
"Most blessed of women be Jael,
the wife of Heber the Kenite,
most blessed of tent-dwelling women.

He asked for water, and she gave him milk;
in a bowl fit for nobles she brought him curdled milk.

Her hand reached for the tent peg,
her right hand for the workman's hammer.
She struck Sisera, she crushed his head,
she shattered and pierced his temple.

At her feet he sank,
he fell;
there he lay.
At her feet he sank,
he fell;
where he sank,
there he fell -
dead!"


As a good example of taunting and gloating the above passage from Judges 5, dealing with the demise of Sisera at the hands of a woman (no less), gives as good as it gets. Did the song-writer think we might miss the point in the last stanza? Did Sisera fall? Surely not???

Snigger, snigger.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
Strictly speaking, Sisera didn't fall because he was already lying down asleep.

Here is Judges 4:21

quote:

---

Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.

---

She literally nailed him to the floor/ground.

Moo
 

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Posted by Athrawes (# 9594) on :
 
As you do.
 

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Posted by pooka (# 11425) on :
 
Umm.. thank you Moo. I was being ironic but I really like what you have pointed out.
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
I know it's New Testament, but I asked my Greek tutor if the bit from John 1:46, 'Can anything good come from Nazareth?' was a joke, and she said that Jesus' comment, 'Here is a real Israelite; there is nothing false in him!' could well be a kind of riposte.
Seemingly the Greek for 'false' here has some connotations of 'fish', so the repartee goes: 'Can anything good come from that backwater town full of rednecks and country bumpkins?' while Jesus's comment is implying, 'Ah, you city slickers from the teeming metropolis of Bethsaida whose wealth is built upon the fishing industry, you think you're so cool!'
Of course, it loses something in the translation!
 

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Posted by fnk (# 10377) on :
 
I've always enjoyed the story of Elijah and the Prophets of Baal on Mt Carmel. He's such a smart-arse and the thought of the already tired prophets hunking down and praying harder while Elijah stands around mocking them makes me chuckle. Then he steps up and gets fire on the first try. When the rain arrives and he tucks his coat into his belt and runs ahead of the chariot the whole way back to town. It's great mental-image stuff.
 

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Posted by Wm Duncan (# 3021) on :
 
I don't think there's any humor in the O.T. before Genesis 1:16, where you find

quote:

---

God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars.

---

quote:

---

Deuteronomy 3:11
11 (Only Og king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaites. His bed was made of iron and was more than thirteen feet long and six feet wide. It is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites.)

---

I mean ... would you want to move an iron bed of that size!?
 

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Posted by Malin (# 11769) on :
 
... and I can't resist also this utterly fantastic sarcastic retort of Job to his 'comforters' ...

quote:

---

Job 12:2

2 "Doubtless you are the people,
and wisdom will die with you!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62
There has been some mention of this before the thread was re*bumped* - but it has to be Jonah! He's a uniquely comic character and the short story of "go right, go left, go down, come up, do good and get cross anyway" always makes me chuckle.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:
Someone once suggested on this board that Jonah was a parody.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Calindreams:
As for the assonance and metre, could you explain that a little more because there does seem to be quite an uncanny resemblance in the words on reading them, especially since the Hebrew wasn't originally pointed.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:
Someone once suggested on this board that Jonah was a parody.

---

How odd. I don't mind "parable", though I see a historical basis as well. But parody?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nigel M:
I was wondering about that, too. What was being parodied?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
< a bit tangential>

For Moo and Nigel M. Isn't it a type of Midrash? Humour works well in that genre. In short, Jonah could be rabbinical teaching on God's judgment and mercy, couched in a tale connecting a rebellious people (fact) with a rebellious jew (Jonah as a type). Then the comic or OTT details can be understood as a way of helping the hearer to remember. And Jonah is really memorable.

</tangent>

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by georgiaboy:
In reference to above comments on the 100-200 Philistine foreskins that David paid for Michal:

In my long-past time in seminary, the frequent appearance of Creamed Chipped Beef on Toast on the refectory menu was always called "David's Dowry."

---

 

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Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cottontail:
I know it's New Testament, but I asked my Greek tutor if the bit from John 1:46, 'Can anything good come from Nazareth?' was a joke, and she said that Jesus' comment, 'Here is a real Israelite; there is nothing false in him!' could well be a kind of riposte.
Seemingly the Greek for 'false' here has some connotations of 'fish', so the repartee goes: 'Can anything good come from that backwater town full of rednecks and country bumpkins?' while Jesus's comment is implying, 'Ah, you city slickers from the teeming metropolis of Bethsaida whose wealth is built upon the fishing industry, you think you're so cool!'
Of course, it loses something in the translation!

---

A pastor I heard speak late last year said he thought it basically meant "you can't talk, you stink like fish!" It seems to come through a bit better than your version.
 

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Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
I think there is comedy in Jonah especially at the beginning when God asks to get up and go up to Nineveh and he gets up and goes down to Jaffa and down into the ship and down into the hold and down into etc. etc.

I think there is also a rather rough folk humour at the beginning of Job as the disasters pile up and the varous servants come along to report them each conlcuding with 'I alone was left' or words to that effect.

[ 09. February 2007, 12:04: Message edited by: BroJames ]
 

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Posted by adso (# 2895) on :
 
There's always the story of Micaiah in I Kings 22.
King Ahab hasn't had a battle for three whole years and is getting a bit bored, so he and his mate King Jehoshaphat (king of Judah) plan to attack Ramoth Gilead. "Hang on," says King J . "Better double check it with God first - ask the prophets if we'll win." So they do, and the prophets all say yes. Then King J (who possibly has cold feet about this ) says "Did you ask all of them?" Ahab admits he's missed out Micaiah because Micaiah always prophesies bad things, but reluctantly agrees to ask him.
Enter Micaiah. "Will we win?" asks the king.
"Yes, of course," says Micaiah.
The king gets cross. "How many times do I have to tell you to speak the truth?"
"OK then," says Micaiah. "God says you are going to be completely wiped out."
"What did I tell you?" says King Ahab to King J. "Micaiah never prophesies anything good about me!"


They do get defeated. King Ahab persuades King J to swop robes, to increase his chance of survival, but gets mortally wounded by a completely random arrow and the dogs lick up the blood from the chariot.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Adso, I always got a bang out of that story, too. Thanks for reminding me of it.
 

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Posted by MouseThief (# 953) on :
 
I always loved the Judges 3 story of Ehud the Left-Handed and Eglon the Fat.

Eglon the Fat is the nasty overlord of the Israelites, and Ehud the Left-Handed is the "judge" that saves the nation. He goes to visit Eglon, and takes out his sword (which, being on his right thigh, presumably was missed by the bodyguards) and stabs Eglon so the blade comes through the other sidebut he's so fat that his fat folds around the hilt and Ehud can't withdraw it.

Ehud then locks the doors and goes out, and Eglon's dying moans are interpreted by his servants (just outside the door) as the noise he makes on the toilet ("spreading his feet" is the dainty Biblical bowdlerism), so they don't go in to save him until it's too late.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Bump!
 

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Posted by Quam Dilecta (# 12541) on :
 
Fifty years ago I heard an Old Testament scholar preach. He explained that the prophet Amos made liberal use of puns. The only example which I still remember had God asking Amos, "What do you see?" and Amos replying, "A begonia", to which God responded "Today you are here, and tomorrow you'll begonia". I hope that the Hebrew it not quite so groan-inducing.
 

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Posted by lady in red (# 10688) on :
 
Re-reading Proverbs this morning reminded me that I do think that some of them are pretty funny. My personal favourite is 11:22:

"Like a gold ring in the snout of a pig,
Is a lovely woman who lacks discretion"

Never fails to bring a smile to my face
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
I like Proverbs 27:14, (which has already been mentioned on this thread)

quote:

---

Whoever blesses a neighbour with a loud voice,
rising early in the morning,
will be counted as cursing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider:
I must be sense of humour impaired. I've always found the attempts to describe bits of the bible as funny to be strained.

But that's just me.

---

Me too. Whenever someone tries to point out biblical humour - well, let's be honest, you can't force a laugh. The Bible/Jesus, hmmm...

That's why I was so pleasantly surprised when I read Epictetus - that's when I realised how much we owed to the Greeks. It took humour to do that.
 

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Posted by mirrizin (# 11014) on :
 
I think some parts of the OT are great for black humor, and the kind of laughing that comes of understanding how fucking hysterical life is (to paraphrase a movie).

Then again, I'm weird.
 

---

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by flickeringflame:
Me too. Whenever someone tries to point out biblical humour - well, let's be honest, you can't force a laugh. The Bible/Jesus, hmmm...

That's why I was so pleasantly surprised when I read Epictetus - that's when I realised how much we owed to the Greeks. It took humour to do that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by flickeringflame:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider:
I must be sense of humour impaired. I've always found the attempts to describe bits of the bible as funny to be strained.

---

Me too. Whenever someone tries to point out biblical humour - well, let's be honest, you can't force a laugh.

---

Try reading the book of Jonah. To my mind, it is just plain slapstick from end to end. It may not be your kind of humor, but I can't imagine anyone reading it and not recognizing it as bathos (despite those humorless Christians who insist on reading it as history!)

--Tom Clune
 

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Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :
 
Oops! My mistake. This thread is about humour in the OT. As an American, I don't find humour in anything...
--Tom Clune
 

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Posted by flickeringflame (# 12703) on :
 
I suppose the person we should really blame is Benjamin Franklin who was actually involved in changing humour to humor, American style.

As for Jonah - I see what you mean, maybe the thing about the cattle at the end?
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Jonah, if you read it as a little piece of instructive literature, is really freaking snide, dark, and ludicrous. Jonah being the clown in the whole situation-- the kind of Everyman who is so xenophobic and self-protective that he'll go through incredible lengths to get out of challenging his personal comfort level. But then he forms an intense emotional attachment to a flipping shrub. What priorities.

And God in the story matches his bad attitude with sarcasm. (You're right flickeringflame- ""Geez, whiz, if you aren't worried about the people, think of the cows, man!")

Are we moderns really arrogant enough to think we invented hyperbole and satire?

I kinda wonder if, somewhere in the bowls of history, this story was a pointed flip-off to a specific person or class of persons. But that might be stretching it.
 

---

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves
kinda wonder if, somewhere in the bowls of history, this story was a pointed flip-off to a specific person or class of persons. But that might be stretching it.

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I have heard that this was a parody of a whole class of literature, stories where God told people to do something, and they did it very well.

I'm trying to think of a modern equivalent of that kind of writing.

Moo
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
The Ship of Fools Torrid Romance Novel.

Or that bizarre Hemingway contest they have/ used to have.
 

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Posted by rahamim (# 12887) on :
 
funniest bit is when aaron says i threw the gold into the fire and this calf came out. i am surprised moses didn't hit him for not comming up with a better answer.
 

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Posted by Hinematov (# 4766) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Moo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves
kinda wonder if, somewhere in the bowls of history, this story was a pointed flip-off to a specific person or class of persons. But that might be stretching it.

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I have heard that this was a parody of a whole class of literature, stories where God told people to do something, and they did it very well.

I'm trying to think of a modern equivalent of that kind of writing.

Moo

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quote:

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Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
Try to imagine them as a Monty Python sketch--in Tom's example above, John Cleese as Moses and Eric Idle as Aaron.

"I just threw the gold in the fire and then there was this calf there. It's not my fault!"

(Cleese does his long-suffering, why-do-I-have-to-spend-my-life-surrounded-by-idiots look, before exploding...)

In fact, I really think much of the Bible makes more sense that way.

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quote:

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They said to Moses, ‘Was it because there were no graves in Egypt that you have taken us away to die in the wilderness? What have you done to us, bringing us out of Egypt?

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