Thread: Hell: Well Hooray. Guardian Readers Will Tell Me How To Vote Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by MadFarmer (# 2940) on :
 
http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/

They're having people write to voters living in Clark County. I live in its next-door neighbor, Greene, and if anything, I can tell you that we Ohioans are about fed up with the whole world breathing down our necks about how we'll vote.

+ side of living in a swing state: Got to see Springsteen and Bright Eyes for fairly cheap.

- side of living in a swing state: British people are now telling us how to vote.



[ 02. April 2005, 05:40: Message edited by: RooK ]
 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
MEMO

TO: Guardian Readers Telling Americans For Whom to Vote
FROM: US voters
DATE: Nov 2 2004
RE: Guardian article
===============================


Fuck off.


--America
 

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Posted by AdamPater (# 4431) on :
 
You want to get a hair-cut, KenWritez... and maybe consider some new shoes.

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
MEMO

TO: Guardian Readers Telling Americans For Whom to Vote
FROM: US voters
DATE: Nov 2 2004
RE: Guardian article
===============================


Fuck off.


--America

---

 

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Posted by Bea Ond (# 8322) on :
 
Arrrggg! This is such a bad idea. If there is anything that could get an undecided to vote for Bush is a Britt telling him to vote for Kerry.
I understand how they feel. I am a Canadian, I am watching all this, I am concerned, I have my own opinions about it all, but I know it is none of my business. If some American tried to tell me who to vote for in a Canadian election, I would scream bloody murder.
 

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Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :
 
Maybe it would go over better if the Guardian referred to it as "Regime Change".

I hope not.
 

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Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
I'm just grateful they didn't target New Hampshire. Bad enough having to worry about running into a presidential motorcade when you're just trying to get to the grocery store.

(Though it might be fun to see if the Guardian would make the same mistake as most of the campaign computers seem to do, and assume that my husband is married to my daughter (I have a different last name, so I don't show up in between them on the voter checklist, which only has a couple of thousand names on it).)
 

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Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
Hush, Jennifer! Remember the voting machines in Florida!

I am grateful to the British for trying to help us, but we are (imho) beyond help.
 

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Posted by Kyralessa (# 4568) on :
 
I read this myself earlier today. At first I was annoyed by it, but that soon faded into amusement at picturing all those Guardian staffers telling each other what a great idea this is to write and try to convince Americans how to vote. Cause for sure the number one thing I think about when I go to the polls is "How will my dear neighbors in the U.K., and the rest of the world for that matter, take the results of this election? How can I vote so as to impress them the most?"


When are the next Brit elections, by the way? Cause I have this great idea...
 

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Posted by Sir George Grey. (# 2643) on :
 
Strewth.
First I thought this was going to be a thread about the Manchester Guardian telling everyone to vote LibDem.

Then I thought it must be about some rednecked local rag telling everyone to vote Bush on pain of being impaled on horns of 'Kissinger', the local prize bull.

Wrong again..
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais. (# 5713) on :
 
FAO Americans

The Guardian is so well-known for its rich crop of literals* (typos) that there is a chance that this will result in a show of support for Bash or Merry. Or even Wader, if he's on the ballot there.

*In Private Eye and elsewhere it is often referred to as "The Grauniad". It got its own name wrong once.
 

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Posted by Zwingli (# 4438) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kyralessa:
I read this myself earlier today. At first I was annoyed by it, but that soon faded into amusement at picturing all those Guardian staffers telling each other what a great idea this is to write and try to convince Americans how to vote. Cause for sure the number one thing I think about when I go to the polls is "How will my dear neighbors in the U.K., and the rest of the world for that matter, take the results of this election? How can I vote so as to impress them the most?"


When are the next Brit elections, by the way? Cause I have this great idea...

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quote:

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Originally posted by wesleyswig:
Oooh - just to say .... The Guardian asked all to vote Lib Dem in Hartlepool by election although they still support the Blair reigime.

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quote:

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ps. should you happen to read the Guardian please stop it is full of shite.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kyralessa:
When are the next Brit elections, by the way? Cause I have this great idea...

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Most Brits know what the two main parties in America are, and a majority of those who read broadsheet newspapers will know who the main candidates are, and what they stand for.

I can just see a campaign going the other way

"Write to people in Britain"

"But who'll translate it into whatever language they speak there?"
 

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Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
Dear People of America.

Please vote for George W. Bush. Go on, you know you want to.

A concerned (but slightly craftier than usual ) Guardian Reader.

Thankyou.

p.s. I now know that Aussies run UKIP, so that solves that little mystery.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Moth:
p.s. I now know that Aussies run UKIP, so that solves that little mystery.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:

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Originally posted by Moth:
p.s. I now know that Aussies run UKIP, so that solves that little mystery.

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What mystery? Maybe, why UKIP seem to be composed of a bunch of criminals?

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We're coming back to haunt you. Never again will sending convicts to the other side of the world seem like a good idea.
 

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Posted by Barabas (# 8632) on :
 
Americans are obviously free to vote for whoever they choose but it's worth noting that Bush in his latest head to head with Kerry said (and I quote)"I can't tell you how much I belive in freedom". Consider how the last US election was rigged with many Florida residents denied the very freedom that Mr Bush seems to cherish, it does'nt seem unreasonable for the outside world to try bring an element of balance. After, this was America has been doing with Zimbabwe for the same reason!
 

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Posted by Atmospheric Skull (# 4513) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
Fuck off.

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Jesus. It's perfectly simple -- if you don't want primitive foreign people from outside your sacred borders passing comment on your politics, then STOP ELECTING LEADERS WHO WANT TO FUCK ABOUT WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD.

(Oh, and not calling yourselves protectors of democracy or banging on about freedom of speech all the time would help you look less conflicted, also.)

Just some friendly advice from your allies across the seas.
 

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Posted by Barabas (# 8632) on :
 
I've just noticed that my last post has certain words either not fully typed in or missed out completey!

This is very embarrassing because it reads like a George Bush speech
 

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Posted by Wesley S Chappell (# 4186) on :
 
I thought 'Guardian' readers were opposed to Britain meddling in the affairs of its former colonies - surely that's elitist and imperialist?


 

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Posted by Erin (# 2) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
Fuck off.

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Jesus. It's perfectly simple -- if you don't want primitive foreign people from outside your sacred borders passing comment on your politics, then STOP ELECTING LEADERS WHO WANT TO FUCK ABOUT WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD.

(Oh, and not calling yourselves protectors of democracy or banging on about freedom of speech all the time would help you look less conflicted, also.)

Just some friendly advice from your allies across the seas.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Erin:
I don't really care if you primitive foreigners pass comment. I do mind a trash "newspaper" encouraging its mentally deficient readers to spam people half way across the world.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Erin:
I do mind a trash "newspaper" encouraging its mentally deficient readers to spam people half way across the world.

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Erin, if you belive this is what the Guardian is doing then I encourage you to take it to court. As I am sure you know, sending spam from a computer based in Britain is now illegal under the laws of this country.

(If only the States would do the same, maybe I would stop receiving offers to enlarge my breasts, although, I suppose, it's something I could try)

[ 14. October 2004, 13:47: Message edited by: Gambit ]
 

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Posted by HangerQueen (# 6914) on :
 
Ah, I wondered how long it would take before our cousins across the Pond noticed this one .

I prefer the idea of sending a huge wad of dosh to the NAACP - but I'm skint at the moment

Seriously, though, the President of the USA has an enormous influence on the world - you can't blame us for being concerned about who wins, 'specially since Britain is now reduced to the status of vassal state.
 

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Posted by Wesley S Chappell (# 4186) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by HangerQueen:
Ah, I wondered how long it would take before our cousins across the Pond noticed this one .

I prefer the idea of sending a huge wad of dosh to the NAACP - but I'm skint at the moment

Seriously, though, the President of the USA has an enormous influence on the world - you can't blame us for being concerned about who wins, 'specially since Britain is now reduced to the status of vassal state.

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Agreed, but you must admit there is something hilarious about the readers of one of the lowest circulation newspapers of a 'vassal state' pompously writing to foreigners in a 'nanny knows best' style.
 

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Posted by Atmospheric Skull (# 4513) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Erin:
I don't really care if you primitive foreigners pass comment. I do mind a trash "newspaper" encouraging its mentally deficient readers to spam people half way across the world.

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quote:

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(We don't want individual Clark County voters bombarded with lobbying letters so this site will assign only one name and address to each user - please don't pass yours on to anyone else.)

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Also, no email is involved -- just old-fashioned transatlantic post.

(Perhaps, though, you've become inextricably wedded to this straw man in some disturbing Wicker Man-style ceremony, and won't feel able to take mere facts on board.)
 

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Posted by Barabas (# 8632) on :
 
Strath

Hoots mon,

Do yer no ken that yer tattie wee Scotch pappers
are jest full o' anti-sasanach clap trap?
 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
Fuck off.

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Jesus. It's perfectly simple -- if you don't want primitive foreign people from outside your sacred borders passing comment on your politics, then STOP ELECTING LEADERS WHO WANT TO FUCK ABOUT WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:
(Oh, and not calling yourselves protectors of democracy or banging on about freedom of speech all the time would help you look less conflicted, also.)

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:

quote:

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Originally posted by Erin:
I don't really care if you primitive foreigners pass comment. I do mind a trash "newspaper" encouraging its mentally deficient readers to spam people half way across the world.

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Ah well, that's OK then, since that explicitly isn't what's happening:

quote:

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(We don't want individual Clark County voters bombarded with lobbying letters so this site will assign only one name and address to each user - please don't pass yours on to anyone else.)

---

Also, no email is involved -- just old-fashioned transatlantic post.

(Perhaps, though, you've become inextricably wedded to this straw man in some disturbing Wicker Man-style ceremony, and won't feel able to take mere facts on board.)

---

Snail mail or e-mail, it's still unsolicited and junk. So get technical about the term spam, dickcheese, but it's the same regardless. I find it hilarious that all of the stupid tree-huggers are willing to kill some trees just to re-elect Bush.

I've sent this story to the local news media. Interesting to see what will happen.
 

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Posted by Barabas (# 8632) on :
 
Erin,

Please tell me that you were only joking when you said you were going to vote for that meglamaniac Bush?
 

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Posted by IntellectByProxy (# 3185) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
If we primitive foriengers did fuck off as you suggest, would you return the compliment by taking out all the military hardware you keep in our country (which is only there to bolster your overseas empire)?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Wesley S Chappell:

quote:

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Originally posted by HangerQueen:
Ah, I wondered how long it would take before our cousins across the Pond noticed this one .

I prefer the idea of sending a huge wad of dosh to the NAACP - but I'm skint at the moment

Seriously, though, the President of the USA has an enormous influence on the world - you can't blame us for being concerned about who wins, 'specially since Britain is now reduced to the status of vassal state.

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Agreed, but you must admit there is something hilarious about the readers of one of the lowest circulation newspapers of a 'vassal state' pompously writing to foreigners in a 'nanny knows best' style.

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But being pompous cultural imperialists is what the Gruaniad does best!

Having read the article, the people who wrote it were well aware of the dangers of pissing off the good voters of Clark County. They were aware that it could be counterproductive but thought that the risk was worth taking. I'm of the opinion that writing an unsolicited letter to a complete stranger and talking about politics would be a recipie for disaster.
 

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Posted by Barabas (# 8632) on :
 
Jerry Boam,

I think it's time you got a sense of perspective.

Some 3000 people died on 9/11; a huge a mount of people! So many in fact that it amounts to almost one third of the innocent civilians killed in Iraq by America and their client states.

And you don't think the outside world should have a say in whether a man like Bush is returned to power?
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
If fucking Euro-trash doesn't want Americans to vote for Bush, they should figure out ways to make us hate them less than we hate Bush. Europe isn't exactly making it clear why it's worth maintaining ties with it when it does arrogant, annoying bullshit like that.

And Barabas? You're a twit.

Zach
 

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Posted by IntellectByProxy (# 3185) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
And you don't think the outside world should have a say in whether a man like Bush is returned to power?

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quote:

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Originally posted by IntellectByProxy:
And Amanda Jenkins, from our office, who is from Pennsylvania, and is fucking insufferable.

Ta.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
Jerry Boam,

I think it's time you got a sense of perspective.

Some 3000 people died on 9/11; a huge a mount of people! So many in fact that it amounts to almost one third of the innocent civilians killed in Iraq by America and their client states.

And you don't think the outside world should have a say in whether a man like Bush is returned to power?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
Jerry Boam,

I think it's time you got a sense of perspective.

Some 3000 people died on 9/11; a huge a mount of people! So many in fact that it amounts to almost one third of the innocent civilians killed in Iraq by America and their client states.

And you don't think the outside world should have a say in whether a man like Bush is returned to power?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
And you don't think the outside world should have a say in whether a man like Bush is returned to power?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
...
And you don't think the outside world should have a say in whether a man like Bush is returned to power?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais.:
Hey Barabas, how long before you reach Shipmate and we can take aim at these targets you draw all over yourself?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Maybe I can paraphrase the argument of Barabas?

"I want Americans to vote in my best interest"

Presumably it follows he'll listen to the American people when it comes round to our election - then he can return the favour and vote in Americas best interest.

Doesn't that seem fair? Of course it's fair. Totally fucking stupid, but fair.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Boam:
But be honest, here--you just made that up. There is no argument in Barabas' words. You have taken the hodge podge of snide taunts and extraneous recitations of fact and sentiment that constitute his emissions here and imagined an argument that might lie behind them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ophthalmos:
I'd write a letter. Someone might change their mind and vote the right way. You can't argue that who the American president is doesn't affect the rest of the world.

I don't think I WOULD have a problem with Americans writing to tell me how to vote next year in the UK. You can just ignore them, just like you ignore anything else.

Anyway, I'm getting a US vote. Hopefully.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ophthalmos:
I'd write a letter. Someone might change their mind and vote the right way.

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quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
MEMO

TO: Guardian Readers Telling Americans For Whom to Vote
FROM: US voters
DATE: Nov 2 2004
RE: Guardian article
===============================


Fuck off.


--America

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quote:

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And, yes, Erin and even the Riv are counted among your betters in these matters.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cheesy*:
This, of course, assumes there is a 'right' way and that it is plainly obvious to a Guardian reader if not to an American voter.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
MEMO

TO: Guardian Readers Telling Americans For Whom to Vote
FROM: US voters
DATE: Nov 2 2004
RE: Guardian article
===============================


Fuck off.


--America

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That's the US' mission statement isn't it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ophthalmos:
I see it as a way of voicing global concerns to the best audience.

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quote:

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Emergency Preparedness policy: In areas prone to hurricanes, the USNOMRLP proposes to form the Federal Approaching Hurricane Relief Team (FAHRT).
FAHRT will issue everyone living within one-half mile of a threatened coastal area with a personal fan (you know, the ones you can get in the dollar stores-they take two 1.5 volt batteries and you can slip them in your pocket).
When weather monitoring organizations announce the impending arrival of a hurricane, all FAHRT members in that area will line up along the beach and as the hurricane approaches, they will activate their fans. The resulting rush of wind will stop; the offending hurricane in it’s tracks and send it scurrying back from whence it came.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
Not to forget that Ken Bigley would probably be alive today if America had't stepped in stop it's puppet rulers from releasing a woman scientist.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
Not to forget that Ken Bigley would probably be alive today if America had't stepped in stop it's puppet rulers from releasing a woman scientist.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ophthalmos:
I see it as a way of voicing global concerns to the best audience.

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Do you really think that a few people in one county of one state are the best audience? And, do you think sending unsolicited mail (aka spam) to people who probably don't care what Brits think anyway is a good method?

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quote:

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Originally posted by RooK:

quote:

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Originally posted by Barabas:
Not to forget that Ken Bigley would probably be alive today if America had't stepped in stop it's puppet rulers from releasing a woman scientist.

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Bullshit.
I'm loudly against the war in Iraq (now that there's no WMD), but this claim is just plain stupid.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
I seem to remeber US politicians having plenty to say about Northern Ireland, even though it was none of their business.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
C'mon US, don't be so pompous. Where's the harm?

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
Why shouldn't people in one country express views about another?

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
If US voters take any notice its their own choice and their own fault.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
I seem to remeber US politicians having plenty to say about Northern Ireland, even though it was none of their business.

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quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:
Where Americans draw the line is foreign nationals telling us "Vote how we want you to." The Guardian is not stumping for Pres. Bush, either, so this translates to, "Vote for Kerry."

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quote:

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
If US voters take any notice its their own choice and their own fault.

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So you must believe I, and 270+ million other Americans, also have the right to tell you how to vote.

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quote:

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
I seem to remeber US politicians having plenty to say about Northern Ireland, even though it was none of their business.

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Yes, and you'll notice it was politicians commenting about Northern Ireland, and since when has a national border stopped any politician, anywhwere, from pontificating about another country's problems?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Boam:
And how the...Walish...loved it! I wish I had a little treat for each of them! They can sit and roll over too!

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Damn those Walish!

I knew they'd get us in the end!
 

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Posted by The Undiscovered Country (# 4811) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by KenWritez:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
If US voters take any notice its their own choice and their own fault.

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So you must believe I, and 270+ million other Americans, also have the right to tell you how to vote.

I believe we've given, and will give, this idea all the consideration it deserves.

But, since you see no harm in it, let's see how you like it.

Hey, your place is a dump! Jeez, when's the last time you cleaned up or, God forbid, painted the walls? Ever heard of a vacuum cleaner? (I believe you call it a 'Hoover.')

You actually go out in public wearing those clothes? O God, you must give your pub mates quite the laugh.

Let's look at your job and school performance. O my! You suck! Tell me, do you do anything constructive during your time, or do you just download porn all day and jack off to it when no one's around?

You call these idiots "friends"?! Evidently your taste in clothing and home decor is exceeded in negative magnitude only by your desperate willingness to associate with social bottom feeders and plague victims.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Boam:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
I seem to remeber US politicians having plenty to say about Northern Ireland, even though it was none of their business.

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Oh yes, that's right! How could I forget that massive letter-writing campaign sponsored by the Boston Globe?

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
So the British talk about politics in relation to other countires. When it coems to US citizens talking about other countires, their political knowledge extends only to abuse.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NÕghtlamp:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Boam:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
I seem to remeber US politicians having plenty to say about Northern Ireland, even though it was none of their business.

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Oh yes, that's right! How could I forget that massive letter-writing campaign sponsored by the Boston Globe?

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I think he is alluding to the clinton involvement in Northern Ireland and the indirect sponsoring of terrorist organisations by Noraid which indeed was supported by some US politicians.

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quote:

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Originally posted by duchess:
Put that together and I am glad Blair is Bush's bud in the war against terror. I luv me some Blair. BLAIR ROX.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gambit:

quote:

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Originally posted by duchess:
Put that together and I am glad Blair is Bush's bud in the war against terror. I luv me some Blair. BLAIR ROX.

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So when are the Blair and Bush coalition going to bomb the Americans who gave a small fortune to the IRA (which was then funnelled to General Quadaffi in exchange for arms) back to the Stone age, just like the rest of the 'states' (pun definately intended) that support terrorism?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Erin:
Look, your country elects Bush's lapdog, so clearly you're not effective enough to influence the elections you CAN vote in.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Boam:

A succinct and well-argued correction of my last post.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gambit:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Boam:

A succinct and well-argued correction of my last post.

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Thank you for correcting me, and if my post caused offence, accept my apologies.

(A much chastened)
Gambit

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
Americans, try and see it from our point of view. Our Prime Minister is reduced to kowtowing to a monkey outwitted by about 55% of his own country. We've been dragged into what is widely regarded as an immoral war as a consequence. That's not all, but you get the idea.

It's bloody embarrassing for us Brits.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Erin:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
Americans, try and see it from our point of view. Our Prime Minister is reduced to kowtowing to a monkey outwitted by about 55% of his own country. We've been dragged into what is widely regarded as an immoral war as a consequence. That's not all, but you get the idea.

It's bloody embarrassing for us Brits.

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So? How in the name of holy fuck is that our fault?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
No, I wasn't saying it was your fault. It's ours, because we elected the sycophant. But it's reasonable for us to want the situation not to carry on

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quote:

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Originally posted by RooK:
Duchess, you think American troops in Iraq are going to raise those people from the dead? Next you'll explain the campaign of [edited out] for virginity. And what the holy cellulite-jiggling OZ-humping bible-thumping Hell does any of this have to do with this thread? Go masturbate and come back after you can think straight again.

<snip!>

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ophthalmos:
Yes, someone argued that to me earlier, Duchess. Didn't buy it then, either.

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quote:

---

So this has nothing to do with your hoping to affect the election, it's just about you getting off on your own fantasy.

You are a bunch of pathetic wankers.

You have every right to be as stupid as you want, just as we have every right to tell you to fuck off and die.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Zwingli:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ophthalmos:
Yes, someone argued that to me earlier, Duchess. Didn't buy it then, either.

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Why not? How do you suppose Saddam could be stopped from murdering more innocent people?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Son of a Preacher Man:

quote:

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Originally posted by Zwingli:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ophthalmos:
Yes, someone argued that to me earlier, Duchess. Didn't buy it then, either.

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Why not? How do you suppose Saddam could be stopped from murdering more innocent people?

---

You can't use Saddam murdering innocent Iraqis as justification for invading Iraq. We were very happy to let him bleed Iraq dry of young men when they were being used as cannon fodder against Ayatollah Khomeni's army. We did nothing when he suppressed the Shiites and Kurds after the first Gulf war.

You can't use 9/11 as justification for invading Iraq either.

Even Bush didn't do that. He sold us on the war with the weapons of mass destruction angle. Go back and read his 2003 State of the Union Address. There is not one word linking Saddam with the 9/11 attacks, but a flood of them about WMD.

It's only now, after the weakness of the WMD argument has been made known, that we are getting the "Well, we removed a brutal murderer and...oh yeah, he also was involved in 9/11" line.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jerry Boam:
None of this has any bearing on whether twits in the UK should send political spam to American voters. Don't like the UK's participation in the war? Think that there's a better candidate for PM than Blair? I believe you will have the opportunity to vote in your own elections.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Spawn:
Everyone thought he had some stocks of WMD, including Hans Blix...

---

quote:

---

In addition to this the legal reason for going to war was the fact that Saddam Hussein was flouting the cease fire agreement of 1991 and subsequent UN resolutions. If some criminal gets out on parole and consistently breaks the law, they go back into jail.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Falling Star:
Hindsight is a wonderful thing

---

quote:

---

Furthermore, Saddam Hussein spent 10 years pretending he had WMD when apparently he'd destroyed them (and there's still a heck of a lot about that that doesn't make sense). Everyone thought he had some stocks of WMD, including Hans Blix, including German, French, Russian and Chinese intelligence.

---

Oddly enough your comments in brackets struck me. It seems to me likely that Saddam needed to preserve his status as scourge of the US Imperialists in order to bolster his regime's shaky legitimacy and to prove to potentially dissident elements that he retained his cojones. Presumably he thought that 'doing a Gaddafi' was more of a threat to him internally than any US President might of been - ignoring the fact that Bush jr. was not a realpolitician like Bush snr. or a liberal internationalist like Clinton.

We will never know, I imagine, unless there is a draft of 'Time Has It's Epochs' or 'The Common Weal' by Saddam tucked in a bunker somewhere. I must say that, whilst I disagree with you about the merits of the war, under the circumstances it can hardly be denied that part of the responsibility for its outcome must be placed squarely at the feet of Saddam.

Mind you, in the days when I used to study diplomatic history I was a fully paid up member of the 'Soviet Union - nervous status quo power, rather than ubervillain bent on world dominance' school of thought. So those of you with more robust views on foreign policy can file me under 'hopeless appeaser'.
 

---

Posted by Spawn (# 4867) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pob:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spawn:
Everyone thought he had some stocks of WMD, including Hans Blix...

---

who asked for more time to do his job, and was denied it, not by the UN but by Bush. Given time, he'd have concluded there weren't any, without having to bomb the country to bits.

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

In addition to this the legal reason for going to war was the fact that Saddam Hussein was flouting the cease fire agreement of 1991 and subsequent UN resolutions. If some criminal gets out on parole and consistently breaks the law, they go back into jail.

---

It's for the UN, not one or two nations, to decide if the resolutions have been broken to the extent that war is the best response, just as it's not for the officer on the beat to decide that someone's violated his parole and can therefore be locked up without further reference to the legal system.

I'm glad Saddam's gone. But I'm angry that he was removed with so much bloodshed and in a way that's likely to fuel international terrorism, and that the governments which overthrew him are happy to tolerate and even work with tyrants who are just as bad, with no hint of shame.

---

quote:

---

Fine. If you want to shaft everyone else as well as your own country, that's your prerogative.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry Boam:
Oh good, the "bolster my argument with totally irrelevant facts" model helpfully supplied by Barabas is now gaining wider currency on the Ship. Just what we need.

Clinton's intervention in Northern Ireland: undisputed. Noraid funds and boatloads of weaponry sent off to support terrorists: sad, but true. Tell me again what this has to do with a newspaper encouraging individuals to send mail with voting instructions to Ohio?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by N’ghtlamp:
The point that was made was that people in the USA have tried to influence politics in the UK you disputed that point with some drivel about the Boston Globe. I gave examples of the people from the US interfering in politics in the UK and you agree with me.
The precedent has long been set with people from one country involving themselves in another country. Chill out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry Boam:


But come on! "involve themselves!" Surely you are not suggesting that the morons who think it would be clever to send political exhortations to registered independents in Clark County, Ohio, are "involving themselves" in the affairs of the US in the same way that the morons who send guns and money to terrorists in Northern Ireland are "Involving themselves" in UK politics?

These things can't be cited as precedent because they are categorically different.

---

quote:

---

In this case US citizens have the vote and others want to influence them. So what? No-one is forcing anyone to vote a particular way. Democracy is not reduced.

---

quote:

---

IMO, honest appeals from ordinary people to US voters seems closer to the spirit of democracy than professional lobbyists paid by big business
to ease the way for their clients' causes with gifts and entertainment.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MadFarmer:
They're actually very similar.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callan.:
In fact, If I were Karl Rove, I would be kicking myself that I had not thought of this myself and be on the phone to every left wing journal in Europe.

---

Indeed, I had that very same thought. I drafted up a little International Post of my own, to the Guardian, telling them why I thought it was such a bad idea, and said that I thought Rove would be cackling maniacally. Actually I thought that he would pop a giant stiffy at the thought (esp. with the extra crunchy irony of having the lefties do his work for him), but was unsure whether that idiom was commonly understood trans-Pond. Perhaps some kind British shipmate could advise me on that matter?

Charlotte
 

---

Posted by Jerry Boam (# 4551) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MadFarmer:
They're actually very similar.

---

The differences I can see are gifts and entertainment given by US businesses to sway decisions vs letters from foreign individuals.

A much bigger threat to democracy here is the that a US citizen owns a large influential part of the UK press and therefore has huge unelected power. Murdoch's blessing is sought by the main parties and they feel a need to please him. It rather dwarfs a few letters in foreign influence, I think.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:
I'm amazed that people are so wound up about the Guardian.

It's just a form of lobbying, where interest groups try to persuade those appointed to make a decision, to decide the way they want.

In this case US citizens have the vote and others want to influence them. So what? No-one is forcing anyone to vote a particular way. Democracy is not reduced.

IMO, honest appeals from ordinary people to US voters seems closer to the spirit of democracy than professional lobbyists paid by big business
to ease the way for their clients' causes with gifts and entertainment.

I don't think the Guardian is seriously expecting to have much influence.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MadFarmer:
They're actually very similar.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
Penelope Keith for President!

---

 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
And either Patricia Routledge or Dame Judi Dench for vice-president, I think....
 

---

Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Once again, Jerry Boam, I find myself in agreement with you. Knock it off, will ya?
 

---

Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
The election is close enough that every vote is important in the swing states (which will decide who wins the EC). It really is being micromanaged by the campaigns.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barabas:
Not to forget that Ken Bigley would probably be alive today if America had't stepped in stop it's puppet rulers from releasing a woman scientist.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barabas:
I think I was taken a bit too literally in earlier posts when I suggested that Britain has a right to have a say in America's election.

However, the colonials call to revolution in the American War of Independence was 'no taxation without representation'. America's war in Iraq has cost Britain a great deal (not just in money but a massive loss of respect from the Arab world). I believe that Britain was forced into that war because she is so closely tied to America economically that whichever Prime Minister was in power, he or she would have been coerced into it.

Britain's long standing friendship with America will surely be effected if the US continues to use it's influence to bully the UK into actions which the majority of it's citizens abhore. At the moment, most of the UK is wary of closer European intergration but what if Bush is re-elected and Britian is forced into new wars with Syria or Iran (or even Nrth. Korea)? If this pushes the UK away from the 'special relationship' and into a Franco-German dominated Europe, the consequences for the world will be unlikely to be for the better.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barabas:
I agree with you about not bowing to terrorists...however, in the case of those women scientists, it's different because they are being held (IMO) illegally.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barabas:
However, in the case of those women scientists, it's different because they are being held (IMO) illegally.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Geo:
That's it.

I'm going to become a Brit and vote for Thatcher in the next election.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barabas:
[SNIP]...
Britain's long standing friendship with America will surely be effected if the US continues to use it's influence to bully the UK into actions which the majority of it's citizens abhore. At the moment, most of the UK is wary of closer European intergration but what if Bush is re-elected and Britian is forced into new wars with Syria or Iran (or even Nrth. Korea)? If this pushes the UK away from the 'special relationship' and into a Franco-German dominated Europe, the consequences for the world will be unlikely to be for the better.

---

Sorry, but WTF are you trying to say here? Seems to be some cross between Grauniad and Daily Mail politics to me...
 

---

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barabas:
I believe that Britain was forced into that war because she is so closely tied to America economically that whichever Prime Minister was in power, he or she would have been coerced into it.

---

quote:

---

Britain's long standing friendship with America will surely be effected if the US continues to use it's influence to bully the UK into actions which the majority of it's citizens abhore.

---

quote:

---

If this pushes the UK away from the 'special relationship' and into a Franco-German dominated Europe, the consequences for the world will be unlikely to be for the better.

---

quote:

---

Once you negotiate with one terrorist you will negotiate with a hundred times more the next day. The only way to stop hostage taking is to never bow, or look like you're bowing, to the demands of a terrorist.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callan.:
Originally posted by Intellect by Proxy:

quote:

---

The only way to stop hostage taking is to never bow, or look like you're bowing, to the demands of a terrorist.

---

No. You should not bow to terrorists but neither should you refrain from doing something which is right or prudent merely because it gives the impression that you are bowing to terrorists.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry Boam:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MadFarmer:
They're actually very similar.

---

The differences I can see are gifts and entertainment given by US businesses to sway decisions vs letters from foreign individuals.

A much bigger threat to democracy here is the that a US citizen owns a large influential part of the UK press and therefore has huge unelected power. Murdoch's blessing is sought by the main parties and they feel a need to please him. It rather dwarfs a few letters in foreign influence, I think.

---

Is there a new competition for "thickest of Britain" going on?

Has the pressure of gravity left a lattice of neutrons in place of normal matter between your ears? Is there any risk of collapse to a singularity? Such dense matter should not exist except in ancient. massive stars.

You are comparing the output of a media mogul's empire with individual communications sent directly to individual Americans. There is a difference, unless you want to call both activities "involvement" in the Nightlampian mode.

---

quote:

---

In this case, the lobbying idea is wooly-minded enough that it would swing things exactly opposite of the way that apparently was intended.

---

quote:

---

What part of "It's an amazingly stupid idea" is so incredibly difficult to understand?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:
I wouldn't (and nor, I honestly believe, would most of the Britons I know) react in the hysterical way exhibited by some of the US posters on this thread.

---

quote:

---

So, I'll return to quietly panicking about the fact that the individual with the strongest influence over how my country is governed is shortly going to be appointed, entirely without my control or consent, by a bunch of foreigners... who appear, again going by the evidence displayed in this thread, to include a startlingly high proportion of cretinous xenophobes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:
When I first heard about the Guardian letter-writing campaign, it sounded like a sane enough idea to me. Apparently, though, this is because I'm a civilised human being.

---

quote:

---

So, I'll return to quietly panicking about the fact that the individual with the strongest influence over how my country is governed is shortly going to be appointed, entirely without my control or consent, by a bunch of foreigners... who appear, again going by the evidence displayed in this thread, to include a startlingly high proportion of cretinous xenophobes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:
Apparently, though, this is because I'm a civilised human being.

---

quote:

---

So, I'll return to quietly panicking about the fact that the individual with the strongest influence over how my country is governed is shortly going to be appointed, entirely without my control or consent, by a bunch of foreigners... who appear, again going by the evidence displayed in this thread, to include a startlingly high proportion of cretinous xenophobes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barabas:
What's your point about the US having 'shitloads of cretious zenophobes'?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scot:
Why the fuck should anyone take political advice from people who have let their own nation arrive at such a sorry state of affairs?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
... perhaps that both countries are in a political mess (previous US election, war on terror et al) that each could try to pull the other out of...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:
So, I'll return to quietly panicking about the fact that the individual with the strongest influence over how my country is governed is shortly going to be appointed, entirely without my control or consent, by a bunch of foreigners... who appear, again going by the evidence displayed in this thread, to include a startlingly high proportion of cretinous xenophobes.

Have a nice election, guys.

---

Dude, when you locate your testicles, let me know. I absolutely refuse to believe that the British are so pathetically emasculated that they are helpless in the face of the whims of the US government. If this is really an accurate portrayal of the state of politics in the UK... good God what a bunch of fucking pussies.

[ 16. October 2004, 03:41: Message edited by: Erin ]
 

---

Posted by HangerQueen (# 6914) on :
 
Believe it, Erin, believe it
 

---

Posted by HangerQueen (# 6914) on :
 
To continue with my previous post, Tony Blair has got his head shoved so far up George Bush's ondongi that he doesn't know whether it is day or night. Parliament, despite knowing that a sizeable proportion of the British public didn't want us to go to war in Iraq, rolled over and let the government walk all over them. In the aftermath of the war, we've found out that there are no WMDs and that our government manipulated intelligence to provide a causus beli. And yet Tony Blair is still in his job and that doesn't look like changing any time soon. Very depressing.
 

---

Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Parliament isn't the government? What the hell is it, then?
 

---

Posted by HangerQueen (# 6914) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mousethief:
Parliament isn't the government? What the hell is it, then?

---

It's the place where all the Members of Parliament sit and debate stuff - similar to the House of Congress (Representatives?). The Government is part of Parliament and is made up of elected Members of Parliament, but they're not the same thing.

Actually I've always found it interesting that American administrations usually choose one person from the opposing party to be Secretary of something - usually something low key, but interesting all the same. How does that work out in practice?
 

---

Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
That's confusing. I think what you're calling "the government" is what we'd call "the cabinet."

From my perspective "the government" includes the judiciary, the elected officials (including hte president and congress), the appointed officials, and the careerr beaurocrats who run the various services (printers of money, military members, and a zillion various pencil pushers). All that together is "the government".

I don't know anything about cabinet members from the opposite party -- another 'merican will have to help you with that question.
 

---

Posted by HangerQueen (# 6914) on :
 
Actually, I think you might be right - I've been writing a scientific paper all day and my brain is turning into jelly Can any Brits out there help me explain the system of governance of my own country?
 

---

Posted by Cosmo (# 117) on :
 
There is the Legislature, namely the House of Commons and the House of Lords. They debate, vote on and amend legislation. The members of the House of Commons are elected. The members of the House of Lords are not.

There is the Executive which is made of Her Majesty's Government headed by the First Lord of the Treasury or Prime Minister. The senior members of the Government (Home Secretary, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Foriegn Secretary etc) form the Cabinet. The Government does not include the Civil Service or any judges (except the Lord Chancellor - see below) or policemen or armed servicemen etc etc, none of whom are elected. All members of the Government and the Cabinet must be members of Parliament, either in the Commons or Lords.

There is the Judiciary made of the judges, again none of whom are elected, merely appointed by the Lord Chancellor.

The curious bit is that some senior judges sit in the House of Lords and thus have limited legislative powers (although it is very rare for a serving Law Lord - as they are known - to vote on a parilamentary bill). They only remain in the Lords whilst they are a judge. In addition the Lord Chancellor, the senior judge, is a member of the Government and thus from the political party in power. He chooses the judges but can be sacked by the Prime Minister in the way that any other minister can be. He also loses his job if the Government switches party. The role and position of the Lord Chancellor may soon be changed.

All of these bodies are appointed by and are under the authority of the Crown, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.

That's not to mention the farce that is the European Parliament, European Commission etc etc.

OK?

Please continue with the rest of the conversation.

Cosmo

[ 16. October 2004, 08:09: Message edited by: Cosmo ]
 

---

Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mousethief:
Parliament isn't the government? What the hell is it, then?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erin:
I absolutely refuse to believe that the British are so pathetically emasculated that they are helpless in the face of the whims of the US government. If this is really an accurate portrayal of the state of politics in the UK... good God what a bunch of fucking pussies.

---

But Erin, you must remember we're incapable of making up our minds. We need someone to tell us what to do. I'm sure there are some people in Clark County, Ohio, who will happily write us just before our election and tell us who to vote for.
 

---

Posted by HangerQueen (# 6914) on :
 
Thanks, Cosmo and gracious Rebel - you learn a new thing every day. I didn't know Tony Blair was First Lord of the Treasury. Bet Gordon doesn't like that!
 

---

Posted by HangerQueen (# 6914) on :
 
Originally posted some time back by Callan

quote:

---

Oddly enough your comments in brackets struck me. It seems to me likely that Saddam needed to preserve his status as scourge of the US Imperialists in order to bolster his regime's shaky legitimacy and to prove to potentially dissident elements that he retained his cojones. Presumably he thought that 'doing a Gaddafi' was more of a threat to him internally than any US President might of been - ignoring the fact that Bush jr. was not a realpolitician like Bush snr. or a liberal internationalist like Clinton.

We will never know, I imagine, unless there is a draft of 'Time Has It's Epochs' or 'The Common Weal' by Saddam tucked in a bunker somewhere. I must say that, whilst I disagree with you about the merits of the war, under the circumstances it can hardly be denied that part of the responsibility for its outcome must be placed squarely at the feet of Saddam.

Mind you, in the days when I used to study diplomatic history I was a fully paid up member of the 'Soviet Union - nervous status quo power, rather than ubervillain bent on world dominance' school of thought. So those of you with more robust views on foreign policy can file me under 'hopeless appeaser'.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
Thanks, Cosmo and gracious Rebel - you learn a new thing every day. I didn't know Tony Blair was First Lord of the Treasury. Bet Gordon doesn't like that!

---

I don't think he is overly fond of Tony Blair being Prime Minister either.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais. (# 5713) on :
 
Howdy'all

On Monday BBC Radio 2's Jeremy Vine show will be coming from Midland, TX, George W Bush's hometown.

Here is a link to the show's home page. Note that a poll has been done through the show and (I've checked this with Mrs Sioni) it's fair to say that the Radio 2 listenership is a whole lot more conservative than that of Radio 4, which in turn is probably closer to Britain's typical Shipmate. Also that this show is transmitted at lunchtime so most of the listeners are (again checked with Mrs S) at home parents over 30 and retired folks.
 

---

Posted by angloid (# 159) on :
 
I can't be arsed to read all four pages of this thread to see if someone (ken I hope) has said it before, but as a gentle unaggressive Guardian reader who doesn't in the least hate Americans, just aware of the damage that power-crazed US presidents can cause, I'd just like to say [a] that there are plenty of crap newspapers in Britain but the Grauniad isn't one of them [b] if the Americans believe in freedom (and a free world) why can't we at least comment -- no-on'es asking for a vote -- on matters that affect all of us [c] the Grauniad's affectionate nickname was given it in the old hot-metal days when it was renowned for typos: these are now rare and no more common than in any other papers. But I take the point that no-one, especially provincial Americans, is going to take much notice of a foreign newspaper or its readers. After all, most people in this country (78% anti-Bush) don't take notice of the predominantly right-wing and pro-Bush British press.
 

---

Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
Angloid, had you read the previous four pages, you'd have seen your point B was repeatedly answered.
 

---

Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
I think that the Sovs were just as terrified of us invading them as we were of them invading us.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez:
Angloid, had you read the previous four pages, you'd have seen your point B was repeatedly answered.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scot:
What's more, if you'd read the fucking thread, we might give a shit what you have to say about the subject.

---

quote:

---

Writing to a Clark County voter is a chance to explain how US policies effect you personally

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erin:
I absolutely refuse to believe that the British are so pathetically emasculated that they are helpless in the face of the whims of the US government. If this is really an accurate portrayal of the state of politics in the UK... good God what a bunch of fucking pussies.

---

But Erin, you must remember we're incapable of making up our minds. We need someone to tell us what to do. I'm sure there are some people in Clark County, Ohio, who will happily write us just before our election and tell us who to vote for.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:
Amazing Grace said:

quote:

---

In this case, the lobbying idea is wooly-minded enough that it would swing things exactly opposite of the way that apparently was intended.

---

Could, not would. Not many will bother to write these letters (I won't be writing) and most people who receive them will probably ignore them. Only the very stupidest recipients will say to themselves "if these people want X, I'll vote for Y; that'll show them" as no-one will see how they vote. Most will say "well, that's their view but I'm voting for X".

quote:

---

What part of "It's an amazingly stupid idea" is so incredibly difficult to understand?

---

Charlotte, I don't particularly support the Guardian scheme but saying you think it's a stupid idea doesn't make it true, even in Hell. Come on, you can do better.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Atmospheric Skull:
When I first heard about the Guardian letter-writing campaign, it sounded like a sane enough idea to me. Apparently, though, this is because I'm a civilised human being.

---

Way to win friends and influence people, dood!

Charlotte
 

---

Posted by Just Ruth (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erin:
I absolutely refuse to believe that the British are so pathetically emasculated that they are helpless in the face of the whims of the US government. If this is really an accurate portrayal of the state of politics in the UK... good God what a bunch of fucking pussies.

---

But Erin, you must remember we're incapable of making up our minds. We need someone to tell us what to do. I'm sure there are some people in Clark County, Ohio, who will happily write us just before our election and tell us who to vote for.

---

But Alan, you're married to an American ... you can just ask her how you should vote when the UK holds its next elections.
 

---

Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
More importantly, he still has time (I think, depends on whether she is still registered to vote somewhere and has time to mail off an absentee ballot) to tell her how to vote!

(Excuse me while I wander off to google if and how ex-pats married to furriners register to vote...)
 

---

Posted by The Riv (# 3553) on :
 
Better hurry. Absentee ballots are already being cast.
 

---

Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by angloid:
I realise that Hell is dangerous territory for Guardian readers, but some of us have lives to live and can't waste time ploughing through pages and pages of other people's rants. I don't have to read them and you don't have to read mine, so let's leave it at that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by angloid:
Hell is dangerous territory for Guardian readers,

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by angloid:
some of us have lives to live and can't waste time ploughing through pages and pages of other people's rants

---

Then you don't need to post here. If you can't take the time to read the thread, then go find something else to do. But don't jump into the middle of a conversation and expect to be anything other than ridiculed. Because if you act like a fuckwit, you'll get called on it. This is Hell, not the penny sweet shoppe.

Fuckwit.
 

---

Posted by Gort. (# 6855) on :
 
Remember Rook: There can be only one thing worse than stupid people...and that's stupid people near you.
 

---

Posted by HangerQueen (# 6914) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by jlg:
More importantly, he still has time (I think, depends on whether she is still registered to vote somewhere and has time to mail off an absentee ballot) to tell her how to vote!

(Excuse me while I wander off to google if and how ex-pats married to furriners register to vote...)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Riv:
Better hurry. Absentee ballots are already being cast.

---

Indeed. Tomorrow I'm going to vote for Bush to spite Guardian readers and other fer'in Comm'rnists.
 

---

Posted by anglicanrascal (# 3412) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarkthePunk:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Riv:
Better hurry. Absentee ballots are already being cast.

---

Indeed. Tomorrow I'm going to vote for Bush to spite Guardian readers and other fer'in Comm'rnists.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by anglicanrascal:
D'ya reckon that if I spam a few Yanks who post on here (RuthW, RooK, etc) and tell 'em to vote for Kerry, they will vote for Bush too?

---

quote:

---

Please be advised that I have forwarded this to the CIA and FBI.
United States

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
Just to add a little more spice, here are some of the replies the Guardian received.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
Just to add a little more spice, here are some of the replies the Guardian received.

---

These are magnificent! I haven't loved Americans so much since I watched Band of Brothers!
 

---

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by anglicanrascal:
D'ya reckon that if I spam a few Yanks who post on here (RuthW, RooK, etc) and tell 'em to vote for Kerry, they will vote for Bush too?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by anglicanrascal:
D'ya reckon that if I spam a few Yanks who post on here (RuthW, RooK, etc) and tell 'em to vote for Kerry, they will vote for Bush too?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Just Ruth:
I wouldn't vote for Bush even if my life depended on it - because my liberty and pursuit of happiness already seem to be on the line.

---

You're secretly attracted to him, aren't you?
 

---

Posted by Just Ruth (# 13) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
You're projecting, KenWritez.
 

---

Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 
Found this reply:

quote:

---

Consider this: stay out of American electoral politics. Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
And what's all this stuff about Brits and bad teeth?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
Well isn't that nice? Some uppity little sod thinks that just because he gets a letter he doesn't want his country's military "elite" (excuse inverted commas) should come over to the Guardian offices and round them up for Legal Limbo.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
And what's all this stuff about Brits and bad teeth?

---

Typically we are caricatured with yellowing teeth sticking out at right angles to our faces. It could be a general opinion, or it could be to do with the historic Royal Navy, who acquired the nickname "limeys" when they were prescribed citrus fruit for scurvy, one of the symptoms of which is loosening of the teeth. The stereotype has probably worsened since our dental system got screwed up.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moth:

It is a bit sad that some people will put their kids through lengthy and uncomfortable treatment for cosmetic reasons. And that society should think the worse of them if they don't.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scot:
If you tea-sipping pansy-asses hadn't disarmed yourselves, you wouldn't have to worry about casual invasion of your newspapers by political interns (Republican to a man!) pretending to be special forces operators.

---

quote:

---

Real Americans aren't interested in your pansy-ass, tea-sipping opinions. If you want to save the world, begin with your own worthless corner of it.
Texas, USA

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir George Grey.:
Me; I am the classic Limey/Pom/whatever. I drink six cups of stewed tea daily, my teeth are brown, and I never get toothache. I ascribe this to the coating created by the tannin. I also own suits made out of natural fabrics, and which fit me.

---

 

---

Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura:
Look: Duchess' future husband posted. How can she find this man?:

quote:

---

Real Americans aren't interested in your pansy-ass, tea-sipping opinions. If you want to save the world, begin with your own worthless corner of it.
Texas, USA

---

---

My dear lady, I guess you have not kept up with the TDA thread 411 on me. Don't you keep up on the latest gossip on the ship? You disappoint me. I thought you cared!


[ps, nope, I ain't tell you. I don't need anymore conservative men, thank you and AMEN.]

[ 18. October 2004, 16:06: Message edited by: duchess ]
 

---

Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir George Grey.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moth:

It is a bit sad that some people will put their kids through lengthy and uncomfortable treatment for cosmetic reasons. And that society should think the worse of them if they don't.

---

A few years ago my cousin had a brace which included clip-on plastic appendages which sat outside the mouth. It was all the rage in California.

Me; I am the classic Limey/Pom/whatever. I drink six cups of stewed tea daily, my teeth are brown, and I never get toothache. I ascribe this to the coating created by the tannin. I also own suits made out of natural fabrics, and which fit me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
I love this thread. Can we have it made a sticky? It's the funniest thing I've read on the internet for ages.

Does anyone remember the Big Book of British Smiles from The Simpsons?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by duchess:
Crest strips work fairly well matey.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
All this passive-aggressive dental boasting from Americans is confusing me.

Look, if the seventh best-selling daily newspaper in a country about one sixth our size, that most of us find slightly tacky and old-fashioned (but a fun place to go for a booze-break) decided to voice an opinion about a British election, can you imangine how much fuss there would be from the Brits here?
That's right. None at all.

---

Depends on the issue. I could see an almighty rucus if the Dutch launched a pro-Europe campaign for example.
 

---

Posted by alienfromzog (# 5327) on :
 
I've been reading the replies on the Guardian website. It's all quite sad really.

I happen to think that Kerry would be far better for the world at large than Bush but you'd think that the Americans would finally realise that getting rid of Bush is in their own interest. They should vote for Kerry out of selfishness!

Why?

Well it's like this;
The economy. The Clinton administration turned a massive deficit into a surplus. How? By carefully planning from the beginning. The reduction in a borrowing and thus in interest rates was worth far more to most middle class voters than any of the tax cuts that Bush has given and promised. Furthermore, under Bush the deficit is back with a vengence and unemployment is out of control.
Healthcare. I am a doctor (almost). I have seen the NHS at it's best and worst and I have seen medicine in various countries including Africa. I read the transcript of the last debate and I can tell you this; Bush knows nothing about healthcare. I don't know how good Kerry's plan is but given that the number of people not covered by health insurance (including children) has increased in the last four years having been falling significantly for the previous 8, it's not too difficult to work out.

That's just a couple of issues. It's incredible how upset some of these people have gotten both writing to the Guardian and on this thread. How can it possibly be a big deal for someone to express an opinion? I have no objection to someone suggesting how I should vote if they give me good reasons and if they accept that I will make up my own mind in the end and I don't have to tell anyone who I'm voting for if I don't want to.

I may be an ignorant Brit and have no right to interfere in American politics (according to one person who wrote to the Guardian, I could be arrested as a spy) but come on! I mean you have to wonder why the American people voted for Bush in the first place, and then you remember, they didn't.

 

---

Posted by Erin (# 2) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by alienfromzog:
I've been reading the replies on the Guardian website. It's all quite sad really.

I happen to think that Kerry would be far better for the world at large than Bush but you'd think that the Americans would finally realise that getting rid of Bush is in their own interest. They should vote for Kerry out of selfishness!

---

In case you haven't figured it out, we don't really give a flying fuck who you think our next president should be. In much the same way that none of you give a flying fuck who we think your next PM should be.

Jeez. It's not rocket science, people.
 

---

Posted by alienfromzog (# 5327) on :
 
I was expecting Erin to reply.

Insightful as ever I see.


 

---

Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 
A bit Purgatorial, I know, but are there any USA citizens who do care who the next UK prime minister is (irrespective of whether you'd actually do anything about it)? Why, or why not?
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
I care that you get the Prime Minister =you= want, but only because I care that Great Britain is a well-governed country able to live in peace both at home and abroad.

Years ago, when I was in Greece, I joined in an all-night vigil to pray for the election of a new Greek Prime Minister. On the ticket were a Mason, a socialist, and a communist. The socialist won. He stayed in office for many years. Greece is still on the map.

I hope "There'll always be an England."
 

---

Posted by kiwigoldfish (# 5512) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
A bit Purgatorial, I know, but are there any USA citizens who do care who the next UK prime minister is (irrespective of whether you'd actually do anything about it)? Why, or why not?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erin:
If the British are this desperate to have a say in our politics, I think we should just make it official. Blair will be the first governor of the State of England.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
A bit Purgatorial, I know, but are there any USA citizens who do care who the next UK prime minister is (irrespective of whether you'd actually do anything about it)? Why, or why not?

---

No, don't care a hang. Who's their current prime minister, anyway?

No, no idea who's running, what the parties are, what's at stake, nothing about the British prime ministerial race whatsoever. (I have the impression Blair's on the way out, but that may just be because the Guardian is the only British rag I read.) And I don't see any reason to find out who their next PM will be. Had the British not joined us in Iraq...then we'd just have gone to Iraq without the British. *shrug* After all...we had Poland.

[And trust me, ken, the "fuss" is mostly confined to SoF. No American I've talked to has heard of the Guardian, let alone its campaign.]

[ 19. October 2004, 02:35: Message edited by: Kyralessa ]
 

---

Posted by The Riv (# 3553) on :
 
alienfromzog, the latest US unemployment stats reveal a steady 5.4% figure, which is decidely not 'out of control', rendering the rest of your post suspect by association.
 

---

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 4754) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
Just to add a little more spice, here are some of the replies the Guardian received.

---

Thanks for the link. You might see "Berkeley, California" in the not too distant future.

Charlotte
 

---

Posted by Callan. (# 525) on :
 
I thought this was priceless:

quote:

---

My dear, beloved Brits,
I understand the Guardian is sponsoring a service where British citizens write to Americans to advise them on how to vote. Thank heavens! I was adrift in a sea of confusion and you are my beacon of hope!

Feel free to respond to this email with your advice. Please keep in mind that I am something of an anglophile, so this is not confrontational. Please remember, too, that I am merely an American. That means I am not very bright. It means I have no culture or sense of history. It also means that I am barely literate, so please don't use big, fancy words.

Set me straight, folks!
Dayton, Ohio

---

Who said Americans don't do irony?
 

---

Posted by nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 
i've been staying off this thread like poison, partly because i don't need the agravation, partly because i thought it was a tempast in a teapot, since i hadn't heard anything about it anywhere else.

however, its just made cnn so now everybody's going to hear about it.

stupid, stupid assholes.

in a race this tight, this may have just given bush the edge.

idiots. absofuckinglutly imbicilic idiots.
 

---

Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by nicolemrw:
partly because i thought it was a tempast in a teapot,

---

saw my name and then realised it wasnt me...
 

---

Posted by The Riv (# 3553) on :
 
CNN continues to enjoy a decreasing viewership. If any of the mainstream Media were going to have an exposure impact, CNN would certainly manifest the least.
 

---

Posted by Joykins (# 5820) on :
 
Had fun reading the replies. I wondered how many times the phrases "would be speaking German if it weren't for us", "chestnuts out of the fire" and "bad teeth" would all be used and I wasn't disappointed.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
A bit Purgatorial, I know, but are there any USA citizens who do care who the next UK prime minister is (irrespective of whether you'd actually do anything about it)? Why, or why not?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Riv:
CNN continues to enjoy a decreasing viewership. If any of the mainstream Media were going to have an exposure impact, CNN would certainly manifest the least.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by HangerQueen:
And what's all this stuff about Brits and bad teeth?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mousethief:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Riv:
CNN continues to enjoy a decreasing viewership. If any of the mainstream Media were going to have an exposure impact, CNN would certainly manifest the least.

---

CNN, being the most liberal of the main non-print news outlets in this country (aside from NPR), is the one least likely to be watched by the sort of idiots who would vote for Bush just because a bunch of foolish Brits asked some people in Ohio to vote for Kerry.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Riv:
My point, was that CNN's audience is just plain small.

---

True since there's not much market in this country for liberal media. Pace what some have averred.
 

---

Posted by Jerry Boam (# 4551) on :
 
The story is also in today's New York Times.

A kind word for those of you who still think this a good idea:

You are lazy and ignorant--as President Bush has shown, these qualities are dangerous when combined with an impulse to act. If you had the initiative to do a little research into Ohio, you would know that the state has "closed primaries." This means that only voters who have declared an affiliation with a political party are permitted a vote in that party's primary election. Anyone declaring themselves "independent" has chosen to forgo any say in selecting the candidate of either party (and this is a two party system, to all intents and purposes). There are a many of reasons why people make this self-limiting choice, but common among these are that they see political parties as corrupt and themselves as "rugged individuals" acting independently of outside influence.

Just the sort of people who are likely to respond extremely negatively to random contacts from foreigners attempting to direct their voting.

And the Guardian chose only registered independents to include on its mailing list.

A little research, a few moments of googling are all that's required, would reveal to you that most of these registered independents already intend to vote for Bush or Kerry. Only a tiny minority are undecided. What sort of people do you think these voters are? Do you imagine that they are broadly familiar with geography, history and current events and are evaluating the propaganda from the Democrats and Republicans on the basis of that extensive knowledge? Do you suppose that a little bit of additional data from a concerned citizen of the UK will be all they need to tip their vote in the desired direction?

Anyone with the temerity to actually write to a Clark County registered independent as part of the Guardian campaign might do well to read a little bit about the history and culture of Ohio as part of their preparation. Evidently, Antonia Frasier and Richard Dawkins did not, or they would not have written the clumsy, inflammatory letters that they shared with the Guardian.

Ogden Nash, for God's sake! What the fuck was she thinking?

You think that you are thoughtful and clever, but you are lazy, ignorant and very, very stupid. Not many people would cast their vote one way just to spite some jackass who sent them a note telling them to vote the other way, but if you wanted to find that tiny group of people, looking for undecided independents in Ohio would be a pretty good start.

If Bush wins again, I will hold you personally responsible, you degenerate fuckwits.
 

---

Posted by nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 
jerry:

once again i am reduced to this:



i'm starting to wonder if maybe its a lack of knowledge of american history on british part. i mean, judging by sophs post in heaven, its not taught much.

do you people realize that we fought a long and bloody war for independance from you, and another one in 1812, and this practically defines our national mythology???

and now you want to tell us how to run our government, and who to elect? good god, people, its damn near enough to make _me_ want to vote for bush just for spite!

[ 20. October 2004, 16:41: Message edited by: nicolemrw ]
 

---

Posted by hedonism_bot (# 5027) on :
 
I can only apologise sincerely for the shrill and hectoring portion of my countrymen who have been indulging in this risible behaviour. And if it's any consolation, we all find Richard Dawkins* and Lady Antonia Fraser** utterly ludicrous too.

* Biologist. Knows a lot about how fish grow legs. Knows absolutely fuck-all about anything else. Is not in the least bit deterred from commenting on anything else by this.

** Socialite. Claims to be radical socialist, writes chocolate-box history books called "Dearest Darling Duchesses" and suchlike.
 

---

Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by hedonism_bot:
I can only apologise sincerely for the shrill and hectoring portion of my countrymen who have been indulging in this risible behaviour.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hedonism_bot:
** [Antonia Fraser] Socialite. Claims to be radical socialist, writes chocolate-box history books called "Dearest Darling Duchesses" and suchlike.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez
Isn't "radical socialist" and "socialite" two very opposite extremes? Also, what are chocolate-box history books? Extremely simplified pop culture history?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hedonism_bot:
Not over here, I'm afraid - the far left is mad up almost exclusively of toffs. I belive that the Workers' Revolutionary Party once had a working-class member, but they threw him out for using the wrong knife for the fish course.

And Lady Antonia Fraser's books tend be composed of endless gushing about upper-class women of days gone by.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez
WTH? How do they square their elevated social standing with the stereotypical socialist agenda of "nobs against the wall!" come the Revolution?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by nicolemrw:
i'm starting to wonder if maybe its a lack of knowledge of american history on british part. i mean, judging by sophs post in heaven, its not taught much.

do you people realize that we fought a long and bloody war for independance from you, and another one in 1812, and this practically defines our national mythology???

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
The less educated among our citizens bookmark the "special relationship" with "we pulled your chestnuts out of the fire in WWII". Not a statement I would agree with, but a widely held opinion all the same and not one that will allow for such meddling to be taken kindly.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joykins:
I tried, tried, tried to read the Antonia Fraser letter. I couldn't get through it. It's as fucking unreadable as her biographies. It's stylistically--what's that word you Brits use, twee?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Joykins:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
The less educated among our citizens bookmark the "special relationship" with "we pulled your chestnuts out of the fire in WWII". Not a statement I would agree with, but a widely held opinion all the same and not one that will allow for such meddling to be taken kindly.

---

Eh, it's "pulled your chestnuts out of the fire twice", isn't it? (Well, in a sense, we did, but that was because we had a lot more young bodies and came to the fight late both times).

I tried, tried, tried to read the Antonia Fraser letter. I couldn't get through it. It's as fucking unreadable as her biographies. It's stylistically--what's that word you Brits use, twee?

Joy

---

quote:

---

In Leninist jargon: the lumpenproletariat in a bourgeois society have developed a false consciousness and will only come to a realisation of class interest by actions of the revolutionary vanguard elite. In Redgrave/Pinter speak: of course, the poor dears just don't know how to think, and so of course it falls to people like us to tell them what's best for them...

---

I think that it was George Bernard Shaw who summed up the attitude of the British socialist intelligentsia when he remarked: "I am not a friend of the working class. I want to abolish them and replace them with sensible people".
 

---

Posted by hedonism_bot (# 5027) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sias
Antonia Fraser is married to Harold ............. Pinter. Cut the lady some slack please.

---

quote:

---

"the shittiest shits who ever shat shit"...

---

That's shitten well written! Did Harold Pinter write that, or did you, hedonism_bot?

I =love= stuff like that, truly Rabelaisian!
 

---

Posted by hedonism_bot (# 5027) on :
 
It was a parody of Pinter's rather unique poetic style, and not an unfair one (this is the man, after all, who once used the phrase "the awful pong of death" in a poem and has so far failed to die of embarrassment.) His usual m.o. is to churn out a few lines of expletive-ridden drivel, often of Sadian repetitiveness, and then complain bitterly about censorship and police states when the Independent decline the opportunity to print it on their front page.
 

---

Posted by hedonism_bot (# 5027) on :
 
In fact, for those who enjoy a good laugh, here is old Harold's very latest masterpiece.
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
wonderful, hedonism_bot!

That's almost on a par with Rabelais' famous rondeau , that

"Yesterday, shitting, I did know
The profit to my arse I owe..."
Gargantua and Pantagruel Book I, Chapter 13.

But returning to our muttons, I do not think that Americans from the "Rust Belt" of Ohio where unemployment is so rampant will take kindly to advice from Dames who dwell in Great Houses. "How'd =they= get so rich?" will be the question.
 

---

Posted by hedonism_bot (# 5027) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by leetle masha
I do not think that Americans from the "Rust Belt" of Ohio where unemployment is so rampant will take kindly to advice from Dames who dwell in Great Houses

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hedonism_bot:
True. If they enjoyed being patronised by condescending aristocrats then they'd be firm Bush voters in the first place.

---

quote:

---

From hed_bot:
In Leninist jargon: the lumpenproletariat in a bourgeois society have developed a false consciousness and will only come to a realisation of class interest by actions of the revolutionary vanguard elite.

---

quote:

---

From hed_bot:
[...] "the awful pong of death"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez
I have to confess, this whole Harold Pinter/Anotnia Frasier thing I find endlessly fascinating

---

I have always thought that their domestic life would make a marvellous sitcom. It might go something like this...

Scene : The dining room of a luxurious townhouse in Eaton Square. HAROLD is breakfasting on Multi-Cheerios and reading the newspaper. He occasionally looks up to grimace with rage. Enter ANTONIA.

ANTONIA : Good morning, dear.

HAROLD : Shitting shitty shit from a shitting arse full of shit!

ANTONIA : That's a nice poem, dear. Are you going to send it to the Independent on Sunday?

HAROLD : It's not a shitting poem, woman. I'm swearing at the newspaper. That woman has to go!

ANTONIA : But Mrs Thatcher has gone, dear. Don't you remember? You and Salman and Tariq wrote an open letter to the Guardian demanding the overthrow of her corrupt fascist junta, and only nine years later she was out of Downing Street.

HAROLD : I don't mean her, you silly cow. I mean the Queen. She's gone and made me a Companion of shitting Honour.

ANTONIA : That's nice.

HAROLD : Nice? There's nothing shitting nice about it! Now we'll have to go to Buckingham shitting palace and kowtow to the totally outmoded, puppet monarchy that is just a shitting front for Bush's illegitimate Pinochet-backed dictatorship!

ANTONIA : Ooh, I do hope Deborah Devonshire will be there. You know, she once told me the most charming little story about her ancestor, the third Duchess : apparently, she once asked one of her ladies-in-waiting to pass her the pincushion, and she misheard and passed her an actual cushion. Isn't that fascinating?

Pause

HAROLD : Shit.

...and so on.
 

---

Posted by Ultraspike (# 268) on :
 
Well, looks like The Guardian has called it quits, but not before garnering more votes for Bush.
 

---

Posted by Jerry Boam (# 4551) on :
 
You really know how to salt a wound, dontcha, Ultraspike?
 

---

Posted by Callan. (# 525) on :
 
I notice that the local branch of the Democrats, as it were, advised the Guardian it was a stupid thing to do. If Bush wins by a nose in Ohio, and the election by one state...

What on earth possessed them? Quite apart from the obvious objections, when one is considering approaching citizens of one of the most devoutly Christian nations on earth, why the hell did they think Dawkins would be well received? Perhaps their next ripping wheeze will be to get Gene Robinson to advise the Nigerians in their next election. Tossers, the lot of them. Lenin would have had them shot for being objectively counter-revolutionary.
 

---

Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callan.:
If Bush wins by a nose in Ohio, and the election by one state...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callan.:
What on earth possessed them?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Callan.:
[...] why the hell did they think Dawkins would be well received? Perhaps their next ripping wheeze will be to get Gene Robinson to advise the Nigerians in their next election.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeke:
I hope people are joking, but maybe there really are people stupid enough to change their vote because they are annoyed at someone.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zeke:
I hope people are joking, but maybe there really are people stupid enough to change their vote because they are annoyed at someone.

---

quote:

---

One senior local politician, speaking off the record to avoid offending his neighbours, said: "They picked the wrong county for many reasons. One is, we're very parochial. When people talk about The Guardian of London, they think you mean London, Ohio, which is in the next-door county. Another is, we have some issues with literacy round here."

---

being too smart isn't going to be a problem
 

---

Posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf (# 2252) on :
 
As a Guardian reader I think that you should vote for neither of them. So there you are, Guardian readers, like Anglicans, do not speak with a united voice.
 

---

Posted by Níghtlamp (# 266) on :
 
Well President bush does trust those pesky people from overseas so we can't see this web site.
 

---

Posted by Jerry Boam (# 4551) on :
 
The dim bulbs at the Grauniad have gone on to confirm just how stupid and clueless they really are. They called for the assassination of Bush...

Which would leave... Cheney in charge.

Bright, bright idea, guys.

Of course, they've issued an apology for the assassination thing, but they can't take back the conclusive evidence of their imbecility.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry Boam:
The dim bulbs at the Grauniad have gone on to confirm just how stupid and clueless they really are. They called for the assassination of Bush...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
3) succeeded in being funny

---

You think the idea of President Cheney is funny?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais. (# 5713) on :
 
George Bush (snr) had Dan Quayle has his V.P. His son has Cheney as his.

I reckon they both thought "who will have a pop at us with these guys next in line? Could they be a kind of insurance policy?

[ 28. October 2004, 15:22: Message edited by: Sioni Sais. ]
 

---

Posted by The Riv (# 3553) on :
 
Pearls from ken:

quote:

---

You guys are Top Nation these days. You are the imperial power. Your empire is bigger than ours & has been for going on 50 years.

What are you all so sensitive about?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hedonism_bot:
Buried somewhere in the Jerimiad which has been the Gruaniad for the last few days (one of it's writers even claimed that Bush's victory was the reason that everyone on the tube looked miserable on Wednesday morning - as we all know, London commuters are normally given to whistling happy tunes and greeting strangers cheerily as they make theur way to work) was a claim that Cook County swung to Bush by 3%, which was no more than the rest of the Buckeye state. And I don't think that even Richard Dawkins could piss off 160,000 Democrats into voting for Bush.

I was amused to note that at least one Democrat blogger assumed that Lady Antonia Fraser was a Karl Rove sockpuppet, on the grounds that no-one that clueless and patronising could actually exist. Ah, the innocence of those who have never attended a Nicaraguan Awareness Event at the Tricycle Theatre...

[Edited for Gruaniad-standard spellgni]

---

 

---

Posted by Peppone (# 3855) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ultraspike:
Bush has a message for The Guardian.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jerry Boam:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
3) succeeded in being funny

---

You think the idea of President Cheney is funny?

---

No but I think the idea of President Cheney being the next one to get done over would be, could we throw in Tony ( Blair )on a two for one deal. the bastards ought to be culd on a regular basis just to keep them on there towes.
 

---

Posted by anglicanrascal (# 3412) on :
 
I think that President Rumsfeld would be much better ... any chance of it?
 

---

Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by hedonism_bot:
In Leninist jargon: the lumpenproletariat in a bourgeois society have developed a false consciousness and will only come to a realisation of class interest by actions of the revolutionary vanguard elite.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:
Here is an article in USA Today about the effects of the Guardian initiative.

Moo

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez:
Hmmm. Did Lenin get laid more by talking this incomprehensibly?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by The Black Monk:
I don't think the Guardian readers could have made any difference one way or the other whilst so many Americans appear to be under the sickening delusion that they have an intelligent, hard working, God fearing, 'Good ol' Texan boy' (some people interviewed actually said this!) sitting in the Whitehouse.

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• intelligent - I think most of this guy's policies are fucking stupid, but that's the nature of my philosophical beliefs. For those who agree with his philosophies, he probably doesn't seem quite as stupid. Moreover, regardless of appearances, and my suspiciions, we don't exactly have any WAISS-III numbers to comment on.
   
• hard-working - You don't really expect that he could have stirred up this much shit just by lounging all the time, do you? He didn't win this last election by winking at a couple cameras from his La-Z-boy while sipping margaritas, chump.
   
• god-fearing - His ilk of belief seems to resonate with at least some portion of the population. Who the fuck are you to decide who doesn't seem god-fearing to them?
   
• 'Good ol' Texan boy' - Being governor of Texas officially qualifies someone as being Texan in perpetuity. Dumbass.

• Intelligent - This is a man who can barely string two words together to make a coherent sentence without a teleprompter. He has absolutely no original thought. He was a frat boy alcoholic, who's father greased the slides into an Ivy League school and later a cush job as jet-jockey in the state-side reserves to protect his lilly ass from random shrapnel poisoning. His entire agenda is the work of others, dominated by big business and oil.
• hard - working - The only "work" this man did was run an oil company, invested in by the Bin Laden family, which ultimately failed.
• god-fearing - Oh, yes. In danger of losing his wife and family because of his drinking, he was introduced to Billy Graham by his father, saw the light and accepted Jesus as his saviour. Now we have a man who believes he has "...a calling from beyond the stars to stand for freedom."
• 'Good ol' Texan boy' - Did anyone notice the number of cowboy hats in the crowd at the recent inauguration?

quote:

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Originally posted by Gort:
hard - working - The only "work" this man did was run an oil company, invested in by the Bin Laden family, which ultimately failed.[/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gort:
All he did was count beans in the front office and pass out season tickets to his cronies.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mousethief:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gort:
hard - working - The only "work" this man did was run an oil company, invested in by the Bin Laden family, which ultimately failed.

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Not true. I think he also ran a baseball team or something into the ground. [/QB]

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