Thread: Hell: South Coast/ Bible Belt Christianity Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by strathclydezero (# 180) on :
 
It's the who's who of Christianity. If you're not coming then what do you spend your life doing? Anglicanism is the middle road, the tolerant choice - but it's not where the real buzz is. Christian rock music, Christian gigs, Christian workshops, Christian media, Christian dating agencies, Christian singles nights, Christian theatre, Christian coffee shops, Christian pubs, Christian nightclubs, Christian conferences, Christian jobs, Christian internet access, Christian supermarkets, Christian bloke drinking clubs, Christian moisturising cream, Christian Television ... God, we're so Christian.

I subscribe to a Christian music magazine, and I'm into 4Him, Big Tent Revival, Caedmon's Call, Delirious?, Newsong, Point Of Grace, Take 6, Third Day and True Vibe - amongst others. I like to do a few festivals in the summer, maybe a couple of conferences - God just really blesses me. The choice is just phenomenal, if you don't fit in you could try the post-Christian church, or if you're just a spirit freak there's the really great black gospel church. Or if you fit the middle of the road niche you can just stick to Anglicanism.

What's important is that God is present in everything I do - he's always there by my side, never wavering. If I run over a cat, God is with me. If I sneeze God blesses me. If I swear (and I'm saying bl**dy too much at the moment) it's ok, because Christ has done everything for me.

Our church is growing, in fact it's almost outgrown the new building. Probably because we did away with the hymns that no-one could sing. We've just added a new gymnasium, a food court, a day-care centre, and new classrooms. One of my friends is coming along to the basketball mission, he's a really good player but get's caught out with the Christian rules we play. I tell him he has to get used to it because if you don't like being amongst a lot of people worshipping God, you are not going to like heaven.

[ 10. November 2003, 16:30: Message edited by: Sarkycow ]
 

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Posted by Lady G (# 3746) on :
 
You really are a bitter old tart Strathie...
 

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Posted by Lurker. (# 1384) on :
 
Lord, I just wanna thank you for Strathclydezero and his courage in spreading the word here today. I just pray that all who read it would be really blessed and inspired and challenged and it brings REVIVAL to the land, where everyone will turn away from sinful stuff and only do your things with your people. And I cast down the stronghold of the evil culture that just really corrupts our young people, and I bind and loose it too.

And I just really pray that all those who go to pubs and cafes and listen to non-Christian music and watch non-christian TV will be really challenged, yes that you would speak to them lord, and challenge them.
 

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Posted by Lady G (# 3746) on :
 
Yes Lord - bless 'im.

But not too much!
 

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Posted by footdoc (# 4389) on :
 
I have found the perfect church.... HOORAY!

It boasts a 2.am service for insomniacs, a Christian knitting circle, and a Christian pipe smokers area. The christian cafe serves wholemeal organic meals served with lashinngs of tofu, and is wittily named the last supper...

It likes to be welcoming and tolerant and respectful to all other religions too, so the Buddists regularly use the facilities for their chanting practice... and we are presently knitting a new centre piece for the next Divali festival. How the congregation has grown! Sadly it was necessary to demolish a Council run Old People's home to accomodate the new car park, but we know that the Lord was with us as we made that painful decision.

We have excellant creche facilities, where the children can play in a padded area, however we suspect that at least one child has been abandoned by his mother as he has not been collected for over two weeks, and we have searched the building with tracker dogs, and have not yet been able to locate her.

Ah yes we are truly blessed!
 

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Posted by Neil (starbelly) (# 25) on :
 
Which South Coast are we talking about?

It's certainly not the one I live on, anyway.

Neil
 

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Posted by Lady G (# 3746) on :
 
Y'know - I really should be offended at this. But you've done the stereotype so well, that instead it's funny. Much like watching the Office or Fawlty Towers.
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
I happen to know there's a mini-meet going on today - as I type, I think - in the Coffe Shop of a church in England - where two Shipmates I love are laughing it up and giving each other a hug from me.

If a church wants to focus on the fellowship and encouragement so much that they have a Starbuck's and a Raquetball court and a One-Stop Plastic Surgery Center, who am I to disagree?

My Mates would not be enjoying each other right now if they hadn't found they'd a common interest in that church and its cafe.
 

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Posted by Gill B (# 112) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by footdoc:
I have found the perfect church.... HOORAY!

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Well, don't join it or you'll spoil it
 

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Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 
And just a great big PTL for the many Christian businesses springing up today. My own Christian Carpet Cleaners is doing real good thanks to Brother Leroy down at the bank giving us an extension on our Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceedings.

I'm just saddened by the un-Christian attitude of customers like the woman I talked to on the phone today who talked real ugly about how she had moved all her furniture for the second time and we still hadn't been able to make it out there for our appointment. Lord help her with her anger problem and make her a true Christian, she was not at all understanding about our young receptionist and her troubles with remembering things or our illness and drinking problems within our staff. That poor woman has gone over to the other Carpet Cleaners that we are sure is from the devil. We will be praying for her.
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
"And you'll only drink milk from a Christian cow."
--Steve Taylor
 

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Posted by Wesley S Chappell (# 4186) on :
 
Ay-men.And Lord at this time we just wanna offer up to you our concerns about the menfolk down at First Presbapwesleyan on 19th and Main, last week at their Saturday Morning Men's Prayer Group and Bondage, er Bonding Meet, one of the guys was heard humming the tune of an Alice Cooper song, he tried to claim it was a new hymn he'd heard but we don't believe him Lord, and Lord we ask yer blessing on our new venture, to keep men away from sinful topless bars and lap dancing clubs, it's the Christian Clothed Club, where the waitresses are all Bible believers and don't serve alcohol, we think it's gonna be a big success Lord...
 

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Posted by footdoc (# 4389) on :
 
Appologies for the double post, but I hoped to interest you in the activities of our Christian Knitting group... sadly we have not managed to attract many 20 yr olds into this area of outreach and ministry, and would welcome prayer and guidance on this sensitive subject.

To date, we have just completed our mammoth feeding of the five thousand epic knitting marathon, unfortunately we ran out of wool and only managed 4746, despite many appeals from the pulpit for people to donate their cast offs.

We are currently seeking new divine inspiration for our next project, and would welcome any suggestions. Many thanks.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by footdoc:
Appologies for the double post, but I hoped to interest you in the activities of our Christian Knitting group... sadly we have not managed to attract many 20 yr olds into this area of outreach and ministry, and would welcome prayer and guidance on this sensitive subject.

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quote:

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And all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, knit together as one man.

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Have faith sister, and God will raise up men to knit together, faithful men, men after his own heart, men who can take territories and conquer cities for their Lord.
 

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Posted by Glimmer (# 4540) on :
 
Lord, we wanna just pray for the people here tonight and just bless them. Lord bring your anointing. Pour out your Holy Spirit, Lord, on our new daily family all-age open outreach services for true salaried Christians, Lord. We pray, Lord, that they will be multiplied in abundance, Lord, and bring joyously their tithes so that you will overflow their anointing and blessing. We pray for the family all-age open outreach recording studio and video editing suite for our dear blessed music group and ask that you annoint with abundance the tape and CD duplication equipment that, Lord, we had the EXACT money for in the orphan’s fund and we thank you, Lord, for that and give you the glory. Lord, in precious Jesus’ name we lift up to you our family all-age open outreach ministry mission to Barbados, Lord. We trust, Lord, that our flights will be on time and our golf luggage will arrive at the right destination, Lord, and bring us to good hotels, Lord, so that we can witness to your abundant richness which you supply for our humble needs in your service. Grant that we be refreshed by the mission to the people who have paid their savings to listen to your word, Lord, through our ministry. Amen.
 

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Posted by that Wikkid Person (# 4446) on :
 
Lord, we pray to thee in all meekness and sincerity because thou art truly the Holy One who should have the preeminence. Lord, make us feel grateful, fill our hearts with love for thee. Our hearts are so empty and cold, Lord, make us love thee as we ought.

We know, Lord, that there are not many great, not many mighty among us, and we know that there are many, many other places, tables of men where so much excitement is going on, but we thank thee that we have been blessed in being led to be gathered by the power of thy Holy Spirit, to a place of thy choosing, as of a large upper room, furnished, following the man bearing the pitcher of water, which speaks, oh Lord, of Thy Holy Spirit again, there. We thank thee that we are not merely left to choose just any place to come Lord's Day Morning, but we thank thee that in thy Word thou hast clearly shown exactly what thy Will is. We are not better than anyone else, Lord. We know that. Keep us grateful for blessing us in showing us where Thou would have us come, to "see Jesus".

Keep us in the way that we should go, and help us to see more perfectly thy perfect will for us, thy plan for each and every one of us, each and every step of the way. There are those that are sick, Lord, we pray for Mrs. Kinnon, who has complained of a sore elbow all week, Lord, and Mr. Crenshaw, whose bowels are uneasy, be with them both and comfort them in this most difficult time. Be with our young people, too, oh Lord, keep them from the world and its blandishments, its temptations. Keep them following closely after thee, Lord, help them to keep the old landmarks as it were, to Go On Well For Thee.

We pray for many who could be here tonight, but are not, for those who have grown cold in their souls. We pray that they might be warmed up, and energized to come out and be seen among us, where The Lord Is. We pray for our brother Bob who is ministering in Cleveland, among the natives there. May he feel just a special awareness of thy presence there with him at this time as he does thy work.
 

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Posted by Flausa (# 3466) on :
 
Dear Lord, I just want to lift up a quick prayer for this young lad, strathclydezero, who claims to be one of your children, Father, but who, oh dear Father, has used profanity (fowl language, even ) in his sig. Please pour out your cleansing spirit upon him, purify him, send one of your loving flock to wash his mouth out with soap. Thank you Father for the mighty work I know that you will do in his life. Amen.
 

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Posted by Edward Green (# 46) on :
 
>strumming<

Yes Lord!

We are a noo generation lord, giving ar lives for yoo! Yoo came n saved us Lord, yoo cut the crap out of ar lives, yoo cut the crap out of ar lives. Yeah ... n it werntt just sa we could buy clothes in the Top Shop sale and wear skate trainers, na, becoz it's all about yoo lord. JEEESUS! JEEESUS!

We wanna fank yoo for your church Lord, how yoo are raising up a noo church in the world but not of the world, yeah Lord coz we know you don't wan your kids to look out of fashion, coz being a christian is cool Lord! We pray for all those who have come to kna yoo through this noo generation church Lord, but we pray also Lord for those who no longer love your name, we pray for Bill who left because he said that we are doing the same 1970's worship as ar parents did but with louder instruments, and we pray for mary who said she wanted more than singing, preachng and topshop. Save them Lord, bring them out of that High n Dry Church back to your trooth!

Thank ya Jesus that yoo have put a noo song in ar harts! >strumming< lets all sing!

"nan na nan na na na naan na"
"Jesus"
"nan na nan na na na naan na"
"Yeah"

....fades
 

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Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :
 
I am going to pray for you brother Scz, that you learn how to become a REAL Christian...and learn the RIGHT WAY. Get off your heathen path, Braveheart! Beware! The KOG is at hand! Take off your kilt of unrighteousness and put on the kilt of HUMILITY! Humble yourself, boy. Also learn to [show the RIGHT people respect] since we have a direct link to God. I'll put in a good word for you, at my own pleasure.

[ 05. August 2003, 23:04: Message edited by: duchess ]
 

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Posted by Wesley S Chappell (# 4186) on :
 
And Lord we just wanna remember those non-christian churches, you know, the ones where they wear funny robes and worship graven images, and preach from a pulpit instead of shouting really close into a microphone while wandering up and down zapping people...
 

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Posted by Astro (# 84) on :
 
Can I make a speacial appeal for unwanted overhead projectors

Now that most churches are using powerpoint presentations, their disused overhead projectors can be sent to churches in third world countries to enhance their worship experience.
 

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Posted by Wesley S Chappell (# 4186) on :
 
Lord we just wanna ask yore blessing on our churches 'Project Or', our mission to illuminate the dark continent. We'll be driving off to Africa in a truck full of old overhead projectors to donate to their churches and...what's that Lord? What about the churches there that don't have electricity...ah sh*t!!!!
 

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Posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Another plea.

We have a shortage here at Bread Of Life, Life Of Conquering Kings fellowship.

Some of our teenage and young twenties girls do not have access to fluffy seal posters with "Please Be Patient, God Hasn't Finished With Me Yet" on them, or red plastic radio-cassette players.

If you have any of these items, please let us know. We have just the place for them.

[ 06. August 2003, 13:06: Message edited by: Karl - Liberal Backslider ]
 

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Posted by flutterpink (# 4567) on :
 
Oh dear Lord thank you sooooo much for all you've done in our outreach ministry. You have truly helped us bring 15 more teenagers from the other baptist churches (and even some catholics!) into our youth group. Please help us cultivate a spirit of community with these middle of the road believers. And oh Lord, I know that you can give us a passion and healing. Dear precious God, pleeeaaaassssee heal the apathy in our church and move the hearts of the men and women here to donate the posters, because we know they have them, and God please see our need and help us to buy out that successful coffee shop close to the college that we know is beloved by the students but maintains their walls with pagan poetry. Help us, dear God to put in another, larger, more christian campus ministry there.
 

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Posted by Wesley S Chappell (# 4186) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider:
Another plea.

We have a shortage here at Bread Of Life, Life Of Conquering Kings fellowship.

Some of our teenage and young twenties girls do not have access to fluffy seal posters with "Please Be Patient, God Hasn't Finished With Me Yet" on them, or red plastic radio-cassette players.

If you have any of these items, please let us know. We have just the place for them.

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That reminds me of the 'women only' hall at Uni (Don't worry, I was INVITED in, honest). Both those items were common, as were girls in dressing gowns of such prudery that their grandmothers probably wouldn't have worn them.
 

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Posted by Jeff Featherstone (# 4811) on :
 
I've got to say to most of those who have posted on this thread, just what is your problem? What are you saying-that there's something wrong with churches being successful, with people having a passionate relationship with God? Are you saying that empty church buiildings and half-hearted people feeling distant from God is what Christianity should really be like?
 

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Posted by strathclydezero (# 180) on :
 
Jeff Featherstone,

Welcome to the Ship of Fools, and welcome to Hell. You'll find upon this fine ship many people with many different perspectives on religion. I can guarantee there will be some you have never considered before. You might wish to reconsider asking what peoples 'problems' are before you have considered the perspecitve portrayed here. Where on this thread has it been suggested that empty church buildings and people distant from God have been promoted as desirable characteristics?
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
They're prolly just embarrassed by spewing emotion, honey.
 

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Posted by tomb (# 174) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone:
I've got to say to most of those who have posted on this thread, just what is your problem? What are you saying-that there's something wrong with churches being successful, with people having a passionate relationship with God? Are you saying that empty church buiildings and half-hearted people feeling distant from God is what Christianity should really be like?

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quote:

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a cynical attitude towards contempory evangelical Christianity but without giving any clear alternative model that actually produces changed lives.

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The alternative for me is a small old fashioned church with traditional music and long thoughtful sermons. It has actually changed my life. Still, it does not mean that the large, overhead projector using, new music singing, knitting group churches don't also change lives and serve the needs of people with different tastes. I'm sorry if the thread sounded like that way or if a hint of snobbery crept in.
 

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Posted by Jeff Featherstone (# 4811) on :
 
Thanks. I really appreciate your comments. I agree with much of what you say. The idea of a Christ Carpet Cleaner horrifies me too as does most of junky 'Christian' merchandise.

I certainly wasn't offended by your earlier contribution or anyone else's comments. My concern was more in terms of puzzlement-why so many contributors seemed to be cynical about groups of Christians who are simply trying to be biblical and to be passionate about God and his ways. I'm as aware as anyone else about the occeasional bizarre things that some christmatic Christians do or say but I also know enough people in different new churches around the country to know that most are very ordianry people who are nothing like some of the characatures that some seem to have in their mind.
 

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Posted by Jeff Featherstone (# 4811) on :
 
Sorry, freudian slip there. I meant charismatic Christians, not christmatic!
 

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Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :
 
christmatic could be a new Christian washing machine...maybe you are being called to make one...you never know Jeff.
 

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Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
First up Jeff, welcome to both the Ship in general, and to Hell in particular. A good way to start is to etch the Ship's 10 Commandments on an easy-to-read body part.

A second good thing to do is to read both the intro to each board, and also its guidelines, as these will give you some indication of what you can expect from threads housed on each board.

For instance, the intro to Hell says "You've landed in Hell – the refuge of the irascible, the contentious and the just plain pissed off .... our circles can always accommodate one more malcontent."

To most people, that would give a pointer that you wouldn't find a reasonably balanced, nicely argued thread about whether X is the best way to do Christianity, and if not, what an alternative is.

That kind of thread is found in Purgatory.

Now, do you need me to explain more stuff to you in simple terms that even an idiot (or scz) could understand? Or will you wander round and try to figure some stuff for yourself before posting like you just have?

Sarkycow, hellhost
 

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Posted by strathclydezero (# 180) on :
 
Because some people think that there is a hell of a lot more to being a Christian than "trying to be biblical" and being "passionate about God and his ways". I said it before and you didn't give a fuck Jeff, I'll try once more.

People.here.have.many.different.perspectives.on.religion. There.will.be.some.you.have.never.considered.before.

Do you want to contribute, or do you want to continue being a jerk?

[sarkycow: crosspost ]

[ 07. August 2003, 21:58: Message edited by: strathclydezero ]
 

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Posted by Edward Green (# 46) on :
 
Lord, if you exist, I want to thank you for making fluffy clouds and large white billowing bunnies ...

no .. I mean ... fluffly bunnies and large white billowing clouds.

Friend of Sailors, oh Dolphin Christ splash up to Jeff and speak words of encouragent into his salt soaked heart ...

I believe the message from Christ is here!
 

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Posted by TheMightyTonewheel (# 4730) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by strathclydezero:

People.here.have.many.different.perspectives.on.religion. There.will.be.some.you.have.never.considered.before. Do you want to contribute, or do you want to continue being a jerk?

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[enlightened]

Yeah! What he said! Get a new perspective, one that YOU'VE never thought of (but IIIIIcertainly have) and get it now, or go home!

[/enlightened]
 

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Posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Hey Jeff. I'm going to be nice because I'd have said exactly the same things ten years ago.

Now - I'd like to pick up on your point of "changed lives".

Would it surprise you to know that the life I had to have changed had been a result of evangelical Christianity? And the people through whom God changed it were the dangerously liberal Iona Community?

I'd also like to pick up on the point about "feeling distant from God". I would suggest that asking why charismatic evangelical churches are full of people who feel God is close and real is like asking why the Lake District in summer is full of fell walkers.


 

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Posted by GeordieDownSouth (# 4100) on :
 
Don't worry Jeff, every now and again someone has a go at liberals/high church.

Actually I can't remember one..... anyone else?

Anyhow, I've left my sarnies in my WWJD lunchbox back home, I need to attach my fish sticker to my car and prayer walk my office.
 

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Posted by Glimmer (# 4540) on :
 
Now Lord we wanna just thank you for the fine new shipmate, Jeff, who has come aboard, Lord, just burstin' an' hollerin' for you Lord. Just make his passage smooth, Lord, 'cos if it ain't smooth, Lord, it might hurt the dear boy when he has close encounters with the salty dogs what prowl about the decks, Lord.
Just give him the power through the Spirit to get his spelling right, Lord, and I just know, Lord, he'll be a-postin' and a-glorifyin' just like the best of them.
 

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Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 
Posted by Karl:

quote:

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Hey Jeff. I'm going to be nice because I'd have said exactly the same things ten years ago.

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Not TEN years ago you wouldn't! You were well on the way to Lib.B. status before then! Fifteen maybe!

Hello Jeff. I am another evangelical on these Boards. I think this thread is quite funny, however.

Karl, I know and you know that your 'Bread of Life' joke was REALLY and TRULY based loosely on a name that my last church toyed with, that would have given it the initials 'BOLACC'. Good job they noticed and decided on 'Word' rather than 'Bread' - WOLACC is SO much better!
 

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Posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
You know, I'd quite forgotten where the "Church Name Initials Spelling Something Rude" joke had come from, but now you mention it it comes flooding back.

You're right about the timing - I'm getting old; 10 years isn't as long ago as I thought it was.
 

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Posted by Merseymike (# 3022) on :
 
Well, its been TWENTY years for me, Karl, so I'm more backslidden than you . So there!


 

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Posted by strathclydezero (# 180) on :
 
You're not liberal Mike, just left wing.
 

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Posted by Jeff Featherstone (# 4811) on :
 
I'm well aware of what the Hell area is about and that its not the place for logical debate, rather for some very sharp views. Its very noticable though that my pro-mainstream christianity views seem to have upset more people than a thousand more liberal contributions have!

I think most people contributing need to widen their horizons themselves because they seem to have a view of mainsteam Christianity that involves every cliche going. Have a look at what's really out there!


Yes I do know other people have had changed lives through other routes but where is the large scale changing of lives? Where are the communities of people who together are showing what God is like? Liberal christianity seems to fail miserabaly in this!
 

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Posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Really? Pro-mainstream?

Jeff, matey, evangelical is not mainstream. It's evangelical. It's part of the arrogance of much evangelicalism that it thinks it is Christianity, but it ain't so.

I really don't think the evangelical communities are particularly "showing what God is like". Part of what He's like, but then the liberal communities are showing some other parts.
 

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Posted by Lurker. (# 1384) on :
 
As I once heard a preacher say

"I'm not an evangelical christian. The term is meaningless as there are no other kinds"


 

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Posted by strathclydezero (# 180) on :
 
Jeff,

You really think you're telling us things we've never heard of or considered before?
 

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Posted by Alwyn (# 4380) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone:
Yes I do know other people have had changed lives through other routes but where is the large scale changing of lives? Where are the communities of people who together are showing what God is like? Liberal christianity seems to fail miserabaly in this!

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Welcome to the Ship, Jeff.

I'm nearly as new as you. When I arrived on the Ship, I wanted to debate an issue on a Hell thread . Someone rightly pointed out that Purgatory, not Hell, is the place for reasoned debate.

If you want to start a reasoned debate on 'what form of Christianity is most effective at changing lives', may I suggest that you start a Purgatory thread on that topic? I suggest that you have a look at the existing Purgatory threads first, just in case someone's already started a thread similar to that.

Meanwhile, enjoy the Ship
Alwyn

[ 08. August 2003, 12:28: Message edited by: Alwyn ]
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Karl - Liberal Backslider:
Jeff, matey, evangelical is not mainstream. It's evangelical. It's part of the arrogance of much evangelicalism that it thinks it is Christianity, but it ain't so.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
- the liberals are trying to express the religion of 19th-century German philosophy lecturers in the symbols of 14th-century Italian priests

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone:
why so many contributors seemed to be cynical about groups of Christians who are simply trying to be biblical and to be passionate about God and his ways.

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'cos you've wandered into the online equivalent of a lot of people who half know each other having a bitch session in the pub after a hard day's work and trying to let off some steam.

Some of the same people would be using different language in different contexts.
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
The one thing that best settles the dust when the cocks of both camps strut and crow and slash at each other with their razor-augmented spurs is this:

Disaster!

Usually natural. Around here, involving high winds, high waters and frightened snakes.

Amazing how the feathers smooth down, the crowing turns to sweet concerned clucking, and the left-winged roosters and right-winged roosters all stand shoulder to shoulder and serve.

**********************************************

Abba, Father, I pray for the courage to even begin to pray for the terror and loss it will take to knock these people back into a loving single line following You...

.
.
.


 

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Posted by Lurker. (# 1384) on :
 
Then again, judging by the response of some clueless fundies to 9/11/....
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by strathclydezero:

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
- the liberals are trying to express the religion of 19th-century German philosophy lecturers in the symbols of 14th-century Italian priests

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Errr ... no ... we're not all. You are again making the assumption that liberal = anglo-catholic. Wrong.

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Er, no. I was just pointing out that it is just as stupid to say that as it would be to say the other thing about evangelicals - which has been said at least twice by others round here in the last few days.

Only an idiot could think that all, or most, or even very many liberal Christians are anglo-catholics, because anglo-catholics make up at most about a third of a percent of all the Christians in the world.

The other way round - that most anglo-catholics are theologically liberal - is probably true, but as you would I'm sure point out only of interest in the British Isles and a few odd bits of ex-colonies
 

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Posted by Dyfrig (# 15) on :
 
Wrong, Kenneth - the evangelicals are trying to express the religion of a 16th century civic tyrant in the symbols of 19th century emotionalism
 

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Posted by Astro (# 84) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by strathclydezero:

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
- the liberals are trying to express the religion of 19th-century German philosophy lecturers in the symbols of 14th-century Italian priests

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Errr ... no ... we're not all. You are again making the assumption that liberal = anglo-catholic. Wrong.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Er, no. I was just pointing out that it is just as stupid to say that as it would be to say the other thing about evangelicals - which has been said at least twice by others round here in the last few days.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lurker.:
Then again, judging by the response of some clueless fundies to 9/11/....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone:
Its very noticable though that my pro-mainstream christianity views seem to have upset more people than a thousand more liberal contributions have!

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quote:

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I think most people contributing need to widen their horizons themselves because they seem to have a view of mainsteam Christianity that involves every cliche going. Have a look at what's really out there!

---

quote:

---

Yes I do know other people have had changed lives through other routes but where is the large scale changing of lives? Where are the communities of people who together are showing what God is like? Liberal christianity seems to fail miserabaly in this!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:

And lives aren't changed "large scale" - they're changed one at a time. You can have a stadium full of people waving their arms and crying and promising they'll be different in the future. And it means precisely squat.

---

RuthW, darn it, this is very good.
 

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Posted by Glimmer (# 4540) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone:
...where is the large scale changing of lives? Where are the communities of people who together are showing what God is like? Liberal christianity seems to fail miserabaly in this!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Thanks duchess! Between you as the Calvinist steel-plated Bible-thumper and me as the commie pinko tree-hugging hankie-squeezer, we've got mainstream Christianity in a headlock, don't you think?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChastMastr:
"Lord, I justwanna, justwanna, justwanna, justwanna, justwanna, justwanna, justwanna, justwanna, justwanna, justwanna..."

Quick, somebody help! He's stuck!

David

---

No - he's not stuck - it's the new Christian rap act down at First Methylated Church Family Praise Outreach Ministries on Nineteenth and Main....
 

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Posted by Jeff Featherstone (# 4811) on :
 
Well, to my mind mainstream christianity has by definition to be based on core biblical teachings, otherwise it ain't mainstream. That's not arrogance. That's just following logic.

The bottom line is 'does this other person have a genuine relationship with God', whether they use a liberal, evangelical or any other label. If someone knows God, then I can't say 'I don't need them' anymore than they can say 'I don't need you.' Together we have the mind of Christ. However in working out that relationship there are core issues in which only one answer can be true i.e. if one says 'Jesus is the only way to God' and the other says 'all roads lead to God', then by definition only one can be right. So I'm all for lots of debate to get at the truth. Let's just recognise that there is a truth out there, not just a contradictory set of opinions.
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 


This is Hell. Not Purgatory.


 

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Posted by Ben26 (# 4201) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Featherstone mainstream christianity has by definition to be based on core biblical teachings, otherwise it ain't mainstream. That's not arrogance. That's just following logic.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone:
Well, to my mind mainstream christianity has by definition to be based on core biblical teachings, otherwise it ain't mainstream. That's not arrogance. That's just following logic.

---

quote:

---

The bottom line is 'does this other person have a genuine relationship with God', whether they use a liberal, evangelical or any other label.

---

quote:

---

Let's just recognise that there is a truth out there, not just a contradictory set of opinions.

---

quote:

---

So what's a "core biblical teaching"? Not eating shellfish? Women covering their heads in church? Choosing leaders by drawing lots?

---

Well a good starting point for sorting out what is biblical teaching is the Bible. If we're arguing over what it says on a particular issue, then there's some chance of getting to the truth. If we're not using the Bible as a starting point then there's little chance of sorting out what biblical teaching is. Its a bit like saying you know how to drive but you've never sat in a car. People might tend to disbelieve you.

[Edited your bolloxed code. Use preview post before posting in future. And use the UBB practice thread in the Styx to... well practise ]

[ 09. August 2003, 00:58: Message edited by: Sarkycow ]
 

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Posted by Merseymike (# 3022) on :
 
I've been really trying to be nice to evangelicals. Maybe even think that they might not all be the sort of deluded unthinking fundie literalists I have suffered in the past.

Then I come on and read Jeff's rants. Which are, basically, I know God, you don't, and if you did you would come to the same conclusions as me.

Prat. Take your head out of your arse and then we may start to get somewhere - but you don;t want that,Jeff. You just see this is another mission field, where you can tell us in oh-so-reasoned tones that we must have a 'Personal Relationship With God' and 'Come To Know The Truth'.

And, by the way. 'mainstream' isn't synonymous with 'conservative'. If you want to obey core biblical teaching, sell your computer and give the proceeds to the poor, then we wouldn't have to read your repetitive drivel, OK ? All of us here start with the Bible, but we don't all treat it like a car manual or a witches spell-book. Some of us use the brain God gave us to think about it in the light of reason , tradition and experience.

Apart from anything else, you prick, we were having some FUN on this thread!


Duchess....since when has Lurker been my sockpuppet ?? Or is this a joke I'm missing?
 

---

Posted by strathclydezero (# 180) on :
 
Jeff, you obviously have a gift there. Would you like to preach again next week?
 

---

Posted by tomb (# 174) on :
 
Oh, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff!

You, boy are shaping up to be one of the more entertaining idiots we've had in Hell in a long time.

Soon, they will be lining up to insult you. Can you feel it? Yes!

Ship of Fools, let's just bow our heads for a moment and consider Jeff. Who among you is ready to give this poor silly creature a good chewing out? No need to fear, Ship!

Just raise your hand; with our eyes closed.... It's just between you and the Ship!

Yes! I see your hand, sister! And yours, brother. And yours! And yours! AMEN! AMEN! THANK YOU, SHIP!

Hands are rising all over the auditorium. Now, you who have made a commitment to savage dear Jeff, I want you to get up from your seats and make your way to the aisles.

Yes. Yes. Thank you, Ship!

They're rising! They are making their way down to torment Jeff. From the HIGHEST BALCONY in pink polyesther double-knit, curlers, and leisure suits they are streaming down!

Yes. Yes! Now, Ship, while they're making their way down, let's just close our eyes and sing that wunnerful old chorus, "IN-TO HIS HORT! IN-TO HIS HORT! PLUNGE INTO HIS HORT WITH A DAG-GG-GGER!"
 

---

Posted by strathclydezero (# 180) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Merseymike:
All of us here start with the Bible

---

Can't wait for RooK to read this.
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
I. Can. NOT. Believe. How. Much. I. Agree. With. MerseyMike. Here.

Yo. Jeff. This is a humour thread. In Hell. If you want to debate these issues please take it to Purgatory.

AND ALL THE PEOPLE SAID...

David
can I get an AMEN here?
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by tomb:
Now, you who have made a commitment to savage dear Jeff,

---

... "savage"?

I thought you said "RAVISH!"

DAMMIT! And I was all ready, too... (stomps away)

David
or, possibly, "radish"

[ 08. August 2003, 19:38: Message edited by: ChastMastr ]
 

---

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 
"Ravish with radishes?"

Hardly seems worth getting out of bed for. Or into bed, as the case may be.
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
I was hungry. It's the Ship's Cookbook thread what's done it to me.

David
radishing beauty
 

---

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 
Of course one could ravish wabbits with carrots.
 

---

Posted by Ben26 (# 4201) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Merseymike:
I've been really trying to be nice to evangelicals. Maybe even think that they might not all be the sort of deluded unthinking fundie literalists I have suffered in the past.

Then I come on and read Jeff's rants. Which are, basically, I know God, you don't, and if you did you would come to the same conclusions as me.

Prat. Take your head out of your arse and then we may start to get somewhere - but you don;t want that,Jeff. You just see this is another mission field, where you can tell us in oh-so-reasoned tones that we must have a 'Personal Relationship With God' and 'Come To Know The Truth'.

And, by the way. 'mainstream' isn't synonymous with 'conservative'. If you want to obey core biblical teaching, sell your computer and give the proceeds to the poor, then we wouldn't have to read your repetitive drivel, OK ? All of us here start with the Bible, but we don't all treat it like a car manual or a witches spell-book. Some of us use the brain God gave us to think about it in the light of reason , tradition and experience.

Apart from anything else, you prick, we were having some FUN on this thread!


Duchess....since when has Lurker been my sockpuppet ?? Or is this a joke I'm missing?

---

Ben26

P.S - Featherstone, this is hell and the above posts are what happens when you post arrogant, unthinking, braindead nonsense in hell. Which is what you have done. All of us can read the Bible, Featherstone. Some of us engage our brains while we do so.
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Of course one could ravish wabbits with carrots.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Merseymike:


Duchess....since when has Lurker been my sockpuppet ?? Or is this a joke I'm missing?

---

Merseymike, JOKE . Now we are even for you saying you are going to donate money to Larry Flynt's Vigil on the Plotting Dem thread[insert touche icon here].
 

---

Posted by Jeff Featherstone (# 4811) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Of course one could ravish wabbits with carrots.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Of course one could ravish wabbits with carrots.

---

Only if its wabbit season, not duck season

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by duchess:
christmatic could be a new Christian washing machine...maybe you are being called to make one...you never know Jeff.

---

Washes whiter than white, eh?

Now I'm late to this thread and not one to respond quickly to Hell rants but, hey, have to start sometime. And I didn't know you had been to my church, Scz!

I like, from our new friend (who I see has yet to learn how to quote properly)

quote:

---

Its a bit like saying you know how to drive but you've never sat in a car. People might tend to disbelieve you.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sine Nomine:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jeff Featherstone:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Of course one could ravish wabbits with carrots.

---

Only if its wabbit season, not duck season

---

A sense of humor. That's promising.

---

And he's just said something sensible on the Purg/why do liberals go to church thread. It's very disappointing, really. They just don't make idiot newbies like they used to. Back in the good old days you could count on idiot newbies either to crash and burn in 5 posts or fewer or to achieve shipmate status and stay on for years without ever saying something sensible.

These kids these days. What are they teaching in those schools?
 

---

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Come on people, let's get those cliches out and trotting again.

We can't possibly have run through them all already.


 

---

Posted by psychosian (aka pants) (# 4487) on :
 
what a thread. i thought this was hell. what did this fuckwit do to manage to get people being so bloody nice to him. even i know you dont have conversations like that in here. it was a very amusing thread started by strath, but then in comes jeff and you all start debating with him and being nice to him. maybe hell isnt all its made out to be!
 

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Posted by psychosian (aka pants) (# 4487) on :
 
double post cos strath just told me it wasnt hellish enough, so mebbe i'm as bad as jeff?!!

the point i was trying to make was along the lines of you so-called hell inhabiting folk who cant actually manage a whole thread of hellishness without going fluffy bunny like. maybe each hell thread should start in hell, and then be moved to heaven when you all start being nice to each other and debating issues sensibly.
 

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Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Aw bless. Here's comes a little kid who's best day on the Ship was when s/he posted drunkenly 10 times in a row in Heaven - and she's now trying to lecture us about Hell.

And her comments aren't either:

1. pertinant to the topic,
   or
2. an amusing tangent.

quote:

---

I've been really trying to be nice to evangelicals. Maybe even think that they might not all be the sort of deluded unthinking fundie literalists I have suffered in the past.

---

quote:

---

You'll find many changed lives here Jeff. Mostly liberated Christians. Liberated and exploring new ways of doing things, new ways of exploring God.

Debate is neutral. There is the opportunity to make points for and points against any given proposal. If you don't like what's presented on this thread, or if you think it's derogatory then you are at liberty to post something constructive. As it is you are conforming to the stereotype you are denouncing.

---

quote:

---

To most people, that would give a pointer that you wouldn't find a reasonably balanced, nicely argued thread about whether X is the best way to do Christianity, and if not, what an alternative is.

That kind of thread is found in Purgatory.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChastMastr:
I. Can. NOT. Believe. How. Much. I. Agree. With. MerseyMike. Here.

Yo. Jeff. This is a humour thread. In Hell. If you want to debate these issues please take it to Purgatory.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by G.R.I.T.S.:
And I think some of them post while drinking...

---

It's allowed for Whiskepalians.

says Sine, who NOW HAS A HOME COMPUTER and can post during cocktail time.
 

---

Posted by Lurker. (# 1384) on :
 
I still don't get the Merseymike/me thing that duchess said
 

---

Posted by G.R.I.T.S. (# 4169) on :
 

quote:

---

says Sine, who NOW HAS A HOME COMPUTER and can post during cocktail time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lurker.:
I still don't get the Merseymike/me thing that duchess said

---

I thought for one brief moment I was reading a post from one note Johnny [Mersey Mike] and discovered it was not him, but indeed somebody ELSE who sounded just like him. That is why I used his name...instead of yours, it appeared as though for a brief moment in time you were his sock-puppet.

duchess goes back to polish her steel-plated bible and remind herself to use her powers for good not evil

[edited for clarity]

[ 10. August 2003, 23:54: Message edited by: duchess ]
 

---

Posted by TheGreenT (# 3571) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by duchess:
[edited for clarity]

---

Sometimes it's best not to share these things.
 

---

Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :
 
What?
 

---

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lurker.:
Lord, I just wanna thank you for Strathclydezero and his courage in spreading the word here today. I just pray that all who read it would be really blessed and inspired and challenged and it brings REVIVAL to the land, where everyone will turn away from sinful stuff and only do your things with your people. And I cast down the stronghold of the evil culture that just really corrupts our young people, and I bind and loose it too.

And I just really pray that all those who go to pubs and cafes and listen to non-Christian music and watch non-christian TV will be really challenged, yes that you would speak to them lord, and challenge them.

---

Lord, I'd just like to ask you to curse The Lurker with a long and lasting case of The Church Giggles for making me so conscious of the "justs" that I could barely concentrate on the content of our guest pastor's prayers this past Sunday. Lord just please let him know what a stinkbug he is and I'll just be real grateful.

 

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