quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
'The bible code' is a method of taking every fiftieth (?) letter of the Hebrew Old Testament, putting them together and getting the text of Hamlet, the winner of the 3.30 at Doncaster next Thursday and a message of welcome from Emperor Zligg from the planet Traaal.

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Since I commute and have WAY too much time to listen to the radio, I actually know a little about this.

You have the gist of it correct, Chapelhead. Proponents claim that it is a form of authentication placed into scripture by God. This mainly is based on verifiable predictions encoded prior to the event.

Detractors have inconveniently pointed out that you can use the same techniques and find 'hidden codes' in all sorts of documents - the works of Shakespeare, the dictionary, the New York Times, etc. Something about monkeys and typewriters...

scot

ps. If you take every 34th letter from all of my posts to date, string them together and translate the results from Hungarian into English, you will learn the winner of the upcoming Big Brother 3 TV show.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Even if it's actually true, and God has placed all these messages in the Bible for us, it's not a lot of practical use. I remember reading in a book about the Bible Code, how they searched for (oh shoot, who was the Israeli prime minister who was assassinated, Ravin? Rabin?), well his name, a while before he was killed. And lo, and behold, his name appeared. So they knew that something would happen to him, some time in the future. But they didn't know what they were looking for, so it wasn't a lot of use, really, was it? After the event, they searched, and found that the name of the assassin, and another 'fact' (was either the word 'assassination' or the day or some such thing) were grouped close to the prime minister's name. So terribly helpful as hindsight, so say 'Yep, God predicted that.' But not a lot of use otherwise. And, let's face it, I could 're-interpret' some of my old diaries, to prove that I predicted new admins on the Ship, or Simon dying, or ++Rowan becoming ABC. 20-20 hindsight - what would be the point?

Viki, the cynical cow.
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
What the cow said.

Reader Alexis

PS what does "sarky" mean?
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I always assumed it meant 'sarcastic'
not very fitting really
cynical, yes (like lots of us on the ship) but never sarcastic
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Wouldn't it then be Sarcycow?

We need Viki to tell us.

Alexis
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Maybe, but in Britain we use the word 'sarky'(with a k) as an abbreviation for sarcastic. As in: 'don't you get sarky with me, Mousethief!'
 

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Posted by Admiral Holder (# 944) on :
 
To me, "sarky" has the connotation of being very moody and biting back at people quickly. At least that is the meaning I have come across in Australia: I have been called a 'sarky bastard' by family members (!) and heard tell of 'sarky cows' down the road by my grandmother.
 

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Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
Is there a hidden message in Sarkycow's name?
 

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Posted by Admiral Holder (# 944) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Is there a hidden message in Sarkycow's name?

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Well, if you take a=1, b=2, c=3 and add up "sarkycow", one gets 115!

1 + 1 + 5 = 7...the PERFECT NUMBER!?!?!

What does this mean!?!?!
 

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Posted by zealous convert (# 1996) on :
 
Sounds like "sarky" is a bit like U.S. "snarky"

I've had some encounters with the Bible code, library patrons sometimes want to tell you all about this "fabulous thing that reveals all."

It's nuts, of course.

After 9/11, there was that urban myth that Nostradamus had predicted the events. I spent quite a bit of time explaining to people that no, the verses they were looking for did NOT appear in Nostradamus.

They didn't believe me.

I did not get into the overall validity of the prophecies.

Katie
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Admiral Holder:
[QB1 + 1 + 5 = 7...the PERFECT NUMBER!?!?!

What does this mean!?!?! [/QB]

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Ahhhh! John D. Miller

(with apologies for those who weren't around a year ago and have no idea what that means)
 

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Posted by UnShaggy (# 82) on :
 
Ah yes, the Bible Code. IIRC you take a passage or book in Hebrew, ignore the squiggly things that are the equivalent of vowels, put them in a grid and play word-search, re-inserting “vowels” as necessary.

As an example, let’s take Chapelhead’s OP, apply Bible Code principles and see what we get:

Ibghtcmptrmgzntdythtnclddnthfrcvrdvdsmstffbtthebbl
cdntxctlynmbtthswldsmthbstplctrsthsbjcttsmsthtthbb
lcdsmnstrmnghfrnclsnwthcmptrmgzntbnrmrkblprhpswshl
dpblshbkbtthhddnmnngsfchrstntyhvntplydthsdvdnmypcn
cstgtspssssdbydmnsrsmschbtfrmwhthvgthrdfrmbrwsngth
rghthddbllblfssctnfmylclbkshpthbblcdsamthdftkngvry
fftthlttrfthhbrwldtstmntpttngthmtgthrndgttngthtxtf
hmltthwnnrfth330tdncstrnxtthrsdyndmssgfwlcmfrmmprr
zlggfrmthplnttrlfcrstmghtbthtmjstnrrwmnddrlgsbgtnw
llngtfcptthtrthbtthshddnmssgswldnyncrtvtnscndthght
splsdntshwhghnthrmndncnnyscldsthbblcdrtndfrdthbknd
lrnhbrwwllgnnlghtnmntrtlstbthcrsfbkmkrsvrywhrpsdxt

There are 50 characters in each row. Looking for letter groupings (horizontally, vertically, diagonally - or just next to each other) I can find the following:

ln crss wll s n fct md vl gns scntst typ

Adding some vowels reveals a previously hidden message:

Alan Cresswell is in fact a mad evil genius scientist type.

Hmm. Maybe there is something to this after all…

UnS
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Blast! my secret is revealed.

UnShaggys' plan, that I be dead in my secret lab beside the lake called Ness, had failed. I bided my time and dreamed up a new plan but he has again interfered.

Is this a cue that the thread lacking the 15th letter start again?

Mwahahaha

(regretfully, that will definitely befuddle newer Ships' members)
 

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Posted by pftaylor (# 3020) on :
 
you are right to be concerned about this Bible code nonsense. I used to run a webring on the subject of Creation Science. One applicant had a website on the Bible Code, and included something he called Bibliomathics. He was very angry when I rejected his application.

There is no code in the Bible. It isn't all easy to understand, and some of it needs hard work, but it is still in plain language. God meant us to be able to understand it.

Most people's difficulties with the Bible start when they say, I don't like what that bit of the Bible says, so maybe it doesn't really say it.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mousethief:
What the cow said.

Reader Alexis

PS what does "sarky" mean?

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How long have I been posting? And you've only just asked this question?

Yes, 'sarky' is short for sarcastic - I picked it as a handle about 5 years ago, when I was very much ruder and more sarcastic. Now I'm just cynical and world-weary

Thanks for agreeing with me btw

And I'm glad I'm the perfect number - it makes sense of so much in my life when I look back and re-interpret it through this knowledge. For instance there was this time, when I was 7 when...



Viki
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by sarkycow:
How long have I been posting? And you've only just asked this question?

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quote:

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Yes, 'sarky' is short for sarcastic - I picked it as a handle about 5 years ago, when I was very much ruder and more sarcastic. Now I'm just cynical and world-weary

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Don't sell your handle yet, babe.

Reader Alexis
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mousethief:
Don't sell your handle yet, babe.

Reader Alexis[/QB]

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Wasn't planning to, hon.

Viki
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
You don't fancy being cyni-cow instead do you?

Wood is going to have a fit when he sees that this nice UM thread has been turned into an AS thread.

Sorry Wood.

bb
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by babybear:
You don't fancy being cyni-cow instead do you?

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Oooh, that has a nice ring to it.

But, back to the topic. Bible code. What do we all think?

I think it's a load of hoey, and even if it is actually true, there's not a lot of practical point to it, is there now?

Anyone else?

Viki, trying to make Wood happier, or at least less miserable
 

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Posted by hypatia (# 3015) on :
 
My first post, so forgive any repeats or unfamiliarity with the board conventions... I had a long and detailed discussion on this topic with a fundamentalist - acquaintance - some weeks ago.

As a professional mathematician, I decided to go into the thing quite deeply, as a matter of common politeness to his views.

It is complete cr*p.

At the time it was first proposed, statistics was a new and emerging discipline. Now, the whole basis of Ivan Panin's work is completely discredited.

To find a good response to anyone from the non-mathematical side of life (is there one? :-)) find the site called 'Some Problems With Bible Codes'.

http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/83.htm

Basically, Panin spent forty-odd years sorting through the KJV of the Bible looking for corespondences and numerical links with the number seven, etc.

He found them. Anyone can find them. In one in seven cases of any characteristic, you find a link with seven by chance. The first part of the trick is to pick the things that fit your theory. The second part of the trick is to ignore the six out of seven that don't, without making it obvious to your readers. The easiest way to do this is to pick a lot of characteristic that are actually linked, rather than being (mathematically) independent. This makes the probability of a match not 1 in 7 but 7 in 7, which is impressive... to those who don't understand the math.

The really important thing to realise about this work, IMHO, is not the math, which is at best shaky and at worst downright misleading, but the fact that this man and others since have been willing to spend their entire lives on the research. This is the real evidence of their belief.

Fortunately, the unreality of their evidence permits the rest of us to simply wonder at their ability to delude themselves over such a long period of time.

Blessings

Hypatia of Alexandria
 

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Posted by TonyK (# 35) on :
 
Welcome aboard, Hypatia, and thank you for your useful contribution to the thread.

'A professional mathematician'? Don't think we've got another one of those on the Ship (though I could be wrong)- just a random assortment of scientists who help us to understand when faith and science intersect

Happy posting

Yours aye ... TonyK
Temporary UM Host
 

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Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
Another contender for the 'most impressive first post' award (if we had one). Welcome, Hypatia, and thanks for a very useful link.

quote:

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Originally posted by TonyK:
just a random assortment of scientists who help us to understand when faith and science intersect

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or not understand, as the case may be
 

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Posted by hypatia (# 3015) on :
 
Gee, thank you, folks <blushes furiously and goes pink...>

I don't expect there will be an awful lot of threads that will call on my skills, but it did seem an ideal place to jump in and test the water...

Thanks again, and blessings to all,

Hypatia of Alexandria
 

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Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
So essentially, from what Hypatia, Scot, Unshaggy and others have said, these so-called hidden words do actually exist (in that you can find such words), but there is no significance in their existence.

Any lengthy document would contain such words.

Is that the gist of it?
 

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Posted by hypatia (# 3015) on :
 
Yes.

Just a matter of being persistent enough to find characteristics that fit. Takes about 70 goes on average to produce 10 correspondences.

Just don't tell anyone about the 60 that didn't work. Then wrap the whole thing in good quality waffle, preferably involving something uncheckable to the ordinary punter, like a classical greek translation of an ancient hebrew phrase. Serve hot and spicy, with plenty of padding and offer the introduction for free.

Follow up with expensive desert...

Blessings

Hypatia of Alexandria.
 

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Posted by hypatia (# 3015) on :
 
Sorry, dessert, not desert...

Mathematicians can't spell...

Blessings

Hypatia of Alexandria
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
This sounds like a wonderful way to make some money! I'll help with the um...research ( ) in return for 40% of the profits?

Yes, of course I can look like I believe it, well, long enough to fool the punters anyhow

Viki
 

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Posted by TonyK (# 35) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia:
I don't expect there will be an awful lot of threads that will call on my skills...

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Maybe not - but that shouldn't stop you posting on them anyway.

All you need is an opinion - and shipmates are full of 'em
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Any lengthy document would contain such words.

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quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia:
I don't expect there will be an awful lot of threads that will call on my skills

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Skills, skills. She has skills (I presume she is a she).

What some of us wouldn't give to have skills.

Alan - interesting idea. What fun we could have.
 

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Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
What some of us wouldn't give to have skills.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:

What some of us wouldn't give to have skills.

Alan - interesting idea. What fun we could have.

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I'll be glad to give you my skills. I don't want them anymore. Does the sight of blood bother you?

Ditto to Alan - start'er up.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by bessie rosebride:
Ditto to Alan - start'er up.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell ( on 10th July ):
Blast! my secret is revealed.

UnShaggys' plan, that I be dead in my secret lab beside the lake called Ness, had failed. I bided my time and dreamed up a new plan but he has again interfered.

Is this a cue that the thread lacking the 15th letter start again?

Mwahahaha

(regretfully, that will definitely befuddle newer Ships' members)

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What is really creepy is that, without having read this thread, 7 days later I did restart the thread missing a letter.

Obviously, Alan, you were passing subliminal messages to me.
 

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Posted by UnShaggy (# 82) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by the chilled feline:
What is really creepy is that, without having read this thread, 7 days later I did restart the thread missing a letter.

Obviously, Alan, you were passing subliminal messages to me.

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quote:

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'When my critics find a message about the assassination of a prime minister encrypted in Moby Dick, I'll believe them.'

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