Thread: Doctor Who: Spring 2012 Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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...has a new companion.
What do you all think?
[ 17. June 2016, 14:35: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
Posted by angelica37 (# 8478) on
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Another pretty young woman, doesn't look very interesting to me but I'll wait and see what the character is like and hope she isn't too annoying. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by M. (# 3291) on
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That was my reaction too - pretty, generic, doesn't look very interesting.
But over the years, I suppose most companions have been young pretty women.
M.
Edited to add: it's probably my age.
[ 22. March 2012, 07:42: Message edited by: M. ]
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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Yes, it was my reaction too - I thought a bit vapid - but when I watched the video clip I found myself liking her as she seemed a bit more focused.
What I'd still like to see is the Doctor with a geeky young male companion who's a complete whiz at computers and anything technological, but is completely hopeless with women. Plenty of scope for enjoyment, sympathy and a possible romantic build-up that for once wouldn't star the Doctor.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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She is extremely pretty, isn't she? For a woman, I mean. I haven't seen her acting - she'll have to be good to keep up with Matt Smith.
I suppose if Amy's being written out, that means we lose Rory too? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on
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Oh dear. Looks like Amy-even-more-lite.
I was kind of hoping for an alien as a travelling companion. Better still a ginger alien.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
She is extremely pretty, isn't she?
Meh. I'd prefer Karen Gillan.
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
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Appearances can be deceiving. When I first saw a picture of Matt Smith, I didn't think he could pull off the part of the Doctor. I was wrong.
Of course, appearances can also be accurate. When I first saw Karen Gillan I didn't think she'd have enough brain cells to put together a coherent thought. I was right.
Still, the new Sweet Young Thing is being promised as a great mystery and being part of the build-up to the 50th Anniversary of the program--so is anybody (apart from me) wondering if she is really the return of Susan in a regenerated form?
Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on
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Susan has returned once - it was in the Five Doctors special.
Not to stop Moffat re-imagining her though. Hoping the Doctor's Daughter from season 4 puts in an appearance ...since Moffat deliberately saved her from death, rewriting RTDs ending.
Getting increasingly unlikely though.
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
What I'd still like to see is the Doctor with a geeky young male companion who's a complete whiz at computers and anything technological, but is completely hopeless with women. Plenty of scope for enjoyment, sympathy and a possible romantic build-up that for once wouldn't star the Doctor.
Please no. We already did that, and got Adric, the most profoundly annoying companion in all of Who. Much as I love the Fifth Doctor, his companions kinda sucked. For all the whinging about Amy, Adric and Nyssa were an order of magnitude than even The Great Reappearing Rose.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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Adric was 30 years ago (I agree the memory is grim enough to linger) - could usefully do with being updated. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
I don't know about you but I'm really tired of what feels like an endless stream of young female companions who fall for the Doctor and provide a lurve interest. Fingers and everything crossable to be crossed that this isn't just another one.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
What I'd still like to see is the Doctor with a geeky young male companion who's a complete whiz at computers and anything technological, but is completely hopeless with women. Plenty of scope for enjoyment, sympathy and a possible romantic build-up that for once wouldn't star the Doctor.
Please no. We already did that, and got Adric, the most profoundly annoying companion in all of Who. Much as I love the Fifth Doctor, his companions kinda sucked. For all the whinging about Amy, Adric and Nyssa were an order of magnitude than even The Great Reappearing Rose.
To be fair to Adric, I think Tegan and Turlough were at least as annoying, while Nyssa was rarely given anything to do except be picturesque and wistful - a waste of someone who showed every sign of being a good actress. There seemed to be a policy in the early 80s of sticking a crowd in the TARDIS and then having them bicker all the time. It didn't exactly make for enthralling tv.
I've enjoyed seeing Amy as a companion, though I wouldn't say I like her very much. I also wouldn't say the character has been well written all the time, but when she has been well written, she's had some great scenes and stories. She was fantastic as her older self in The Girl Who Waited, which proved (if anybody still doubted it) that Karen Gillan can really act.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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I could be wrong but didn't Tegan have a bit of a thing for the Doctor, cunningly disguised until her final episode?
It would admittedly have been difficult to have had any kind of romantic interest in some of the incarnations of the Doctor but I can understand someone liking the Fifth Doctor.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I don't know about you but I'm really tired of what feels like an endless stream of young female companions who fall for the Doctor and provide a lurve interest. Fingers and everything crossable to be crossed that this isn't just another one.
What would be really cool is if she turns out to be your raging techie geek in disguise. Seriously, wouldn't THAT be cool? If she falls in love with the TARDIS?
Yeah, I know I'm a giddy dreamer. However, I find a slim thread of hope in the comment that they found someone who can out-talk the Doctor. That's... that... I can't even picture that. Gonna have to see it to believe it.
As for Karen-- Yeah, I don't think they showcased her talents at all. The relegated her to Gal Friday Sidekick. Nobody's gonna shine if that's all they are stuck with.
Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
As for Karen-- Yeah, I don't think they showcased her talents at all. The relegated her to Gal Friday Sidekick. Nobody's gonna shine if that's all they are stuck with.
I thought the times when she had to act she did it really well, being ably to carry off both weak little girl and action hero.
But being in the same scenes as Matt smith and Arthur Darvill (loved Arthur's acting, disliked Rory) then your tallents are going to be hard to spot.
I like the speculation about Susan or Jenny. But I expect Moffatt has something up his sleve that is new. Whatever that is expect teasers that give nothing away in the run up to the next series.
Posted by art dunce (# 9258) on
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I am grateful there will be another season and I am hopeful about new companion. I am glad to see Amy go. I loved Amelia but think Amy was a bust. I guess it's too much to hope Rory stays. My son ( who has loved all the companions except Amy) said that he hopes she gets turned into a weeping Angell! Ouch. He thought the new companion looked wicked awesome.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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My personal prediction is that Amy and Rory will end up downloaded into that computer in the library.
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
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Okay, granted, I still say Karen Gillian's best Who role was as the soothsayer from "Fires of Vesuvius." However, her work in "The Doctor's Wife" was first-rate—though, granted, there aren't many people who can write like Neal Gaiman.
Yes, Adric and Co. were thirty years ago, but I just saw them for the first time last summer (gotta love the Internet!). Teagan was far and away the least annoying of that trio—at least she tried to make herself useful, even if it only worked accidentally!
And the whole "I'm in love with the Doctor" thing has got to stop. Sure, at least with Amy, it kinda worked, what with her being a reformed tart and all, but Rory grew into a suitable love interest—an unassuming guy who, when he finally had a chance to prove himself, rose to the occasion. But Please God, End The Legacy Of Rose!
NO MORE!!!
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
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quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
My son ( who has loved all the companions except Amy) said that he hopes she gets turned into a weeping Angell!
Oh. That would be heartbreaking. Oh. your kid should write for the show.
Oh.
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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I assume, from what we see in Closing Time, that Amy was an aspiring actor (certainly a model, but I don't think children ask for autographs from models?) who was earning a living as a kissogram because if you're an aspiring actor you've got to make ends meet somehow.
Posted by Eleanor Jane (# 13102) on
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I liked Donna Noble/ Catherine Tate because she wasn't all young and nubile and in love with the Doctor. (Couldn't stand her in the wedding one, but she greatly improved after that.)She had some classic lines and she delivered them magnificently.
Karen is stunningly gorgeous, so I'm sure that keeps the male viewers happy... I liked her well enough. I hope this new one has something a bit interesting about her, though. We shall see...
Posted by Justinian (# 5357) on
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quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Okay, granted, I still say Karen Gillian's best Who role was as the soothsayer from "Fires of Vesuvius." However, her work in "The Doctor's Wife" was first-rate—though, granted, there aren't many people who can write like Neal Gaiman.
Indeed. Karen Gillian showed herself to be able to act - when given a first class script. The Moffatt scripts, the Gaiman script, and The Girl Who waited all showed her in a good light. But give her a mediocre script and I don't think she was able to step up and bring more out of the script than was there.
Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Eleanor Jane:
Karen is stunningly gorgeous, so I'm sure that keeps the male viewers happy...
Nope. Too skinny. Freema Agyeman is the only really fanciable one of the recent companions.
The new one looks pretty and very young. She seems pretty enough, and definitely better looking than Karen Gillan*. How fanciable she is is down to more than looks though. How she moves and speaks are important too, so I reserve judgement.
*Just one man's opinion, I do not speak for all men.
Posted by HCH (# 14313) on
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I also hope for the return of the doctor's daughter. As the doctor has only one regeneration left, we will eventually need someone else to carry on. At least I would like to see her return for a few episodes and perhaps get a TARDIS of her own and a suitable companion.
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
As the doctor has only one regeneration left, we will eventually need someone else to carry on.
Oh, there are so many loopholes in the regeneration limit (take a bow, Master!) that I don't think we need to worry about them running out of Doctors any time soon.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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Russell Davies had the Doctor say he had over five hundred regenerations left in one of the Sarah Jane Adventures.
I watched Survival recently. If I were the Doctor Who producer, which fortunately I am not, the thirteenth Doctor would pass on the mantle to Ace.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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There was a bit in Let's Kill Hitler where River Song gave "all her remaining regenerations" to save the Doctor's life. Maybe that means he's got a few more now.
But as Hedgehog said, there are so many ways of breaking the "limit". Originally it was only a plot device anyway, to explain why the Master needed to steal the Eye of Harmony in The Deadly Assassin.*
----
* All together, now - What other kind of assassin is there!?
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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One thing now is that the Doctor doesn't really know if he'll regenerate again or not - so potentially fatal situations really are potentially fatal for him.
Posted by Gill H (# 68) on
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Isn't it twelve regenerations, not twelve Doctors?
But anyway, they can always solve the situation by finding the last remaining piece of Gallifreyan Handwavium or something ...
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
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I don't think the limit is really in force at all. It was an arbitrary rule imposed by the bosses of the Timelord gang, last seen disappearing into a rapidly shrinking pocket universe in an alternate version of history. The Doctor is hardly likely to enforce it on himself.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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I share the pretty-young-female worries of other posters, but I have a certain degree of trust in Moffat to do something interesting with her. Also, it is worth remembering that Sarah Jane was apretty young female when she started her original tenure, but even her first episode revealed that there was much more to her than that.
On the fantasy side, I'd like to see a companion older than me at some point (I'm roughly David Tennant's age). In that last scene of Donna's tenure when her grandfather comes out of the house with him, I really hoped that the Doctor would ask Bernard Cribbins to join him...
Another one would be Susan coming back in a body noticeably older than the Doctor's.
As for male geeks, I agree the concept deserves another go. Yes, Adric went a bit wrong (although I find him less annoying than some people do, certainly less so than Tegan!), but there have been more successful TV portrayals of techie geeks since, and writers could draw on these as well as trying to avoid past mistakes.
[ 24. March 2012, 14:14: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
The Deadly Assassin.*
----
* All together, now - What other kind of assassin is there!?
Tha Failed Assassin? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Doesn't have the same ring to it somehow...
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
On the fantasy side, I'd like to see a companion older than me at some point (I'm roughly David Tennant's age). In that last scene of Donna's tenure when her grandfather comes out of the house with him, I really hoped that the Doctor would ask Bernard Cribbins to join him...
I think a lot of us felt the same way. I was pleased to see that later on, Wilf did indeed get to be a companion for a while, though not for very long by comparison. It did make a nice change though.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
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Thank you for this Ariel - I had completely missed the news. Like the rest of you, I fear that she is too pretty to be good, feel that anyone must be an improvement on godawful Gillan, and wish that Rory would stay on. Since I know my last wish will not be fulfilled I'm not optimistic about the first two....
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
But as Hedgehog said, there are so many ways of breaking the "limit". Originally it was only a plot device anyway, to explain why the Master needed to steal the Eye of Harmony in The Deadly Assassin.*
You forget the Doctor Who TV Movie, AKA "#8 Got Robbed." In the intro, it's specifically stated that you get twelve regenerations/13 lives, and when the last one's up, it's up. Granted, it's not like this whole series is anything but an excuse to make dei ex machinarum seem plausible, so we'll probably get a 14th Doctor, "one little isolated remark" be damned.
[ 24. March 2012, 18:15: Message edited by: AristonAstuanax ]
Posted by Jahlove (# 10290) on
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Great news - no more Pond-life!
Also more a fan of the Donna Noble (no, I'm really not in love with you, Doctor) style of companion. Would be interesting to have a very attractive companion who has absolutely NO romantic inclinations towards Who, either because her interests lie elsewhere, some psycho-physiological quirks or, even better, because she herself is not completely human - or some combination of these.
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on
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quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Please no. We already did that, and got Adric, the most profoundly annoying companion in all of Who.
Nah, for most annoying companion I'd vote for what's-her-name with the really bad fake American accent - you know, the one who sounded like she was doing bad impressions of Judy Garland's accent?
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Jahlove:
Great news - no more Pond-life!
Also more a fan of the Donna Noble (no, I'm really not in love with you, Doctor) style of companion. Would be interesting to have a very attractive companion who has absolutely NO romantic inclinations towards Who, either because her interests lie elsewhere, some psycho-physiological quirks or, even better, because she herself is not completely human - or some combination of these.
She could be a lesbian!
Or just a geeky, smart girl who's not interested in romance. It would be a first if a woman like that were portrayed well and respectably on television.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
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Churchgeek, reading my mind. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
Nah, for most annoying companion I'd vote for what's-her-name with the really bad fake American accent - you know, the one who sounded like she was doing bad impressions of Judy Garland's accent?
Peri has to top the All-Time Most Annoying Companion List, basically because she whined so much. With Amy Pond second and Adric third.
Posted by Rowen (# 1194) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Russell Davies had the Doctor say he had over five hundred regenerations left in one of the Sarah Jane Adventures.
Saw the episode... And it was clear. Loads more regenerations. It was quite a casual comment too. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the series.
Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on
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Donna was by far my favourite companion of the new series (I haven't watched anything but isolated incidents of the older shows, so I don't really have a feel for any of the companions' personalities) because she wasn't in love with the Doctor and gave as good as she got. I think that was partly the way she was written but also to do with Catherine Tate being a bit more mature than other recent companions (and with her and David Tennant having such wonderful non-romantic chemistry between them ... they are a comedy dream team IMO). I'd love to see that kind of dynamic with a new companion -- which Amy occasionally had, trying to hold her own with the Doctor, but it didn't work as well. Then again I'm much too attached to the Ninth and Tenth Doctors and have never been able to really get into Matt Smith's Doctor, so no matter who the new companion is this next series will lack something for me.
Moffat has said that the episode in which Amy and Rory are written out will feature Weeping Angels and that "not everyone makes it out alive ... and I mean it this time," or words to that effect, but of course he's the master of the misleading spoiler so I don't know how seriously to take any of that.
Posted by Jahlove (# 10290) on
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quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
quote:
Originally posted by Jahlove:
Great news - no more Pond-life!
Also more a fan of the Donna Noble (no, I'm really not in love with you, Doctor) style of companion. Would be interesting to have a very attractive companion who has absolutely NO romantic inclinations towards Who, either because her interests lie elsewhere, some psycho-physiological quirks or, even better, because she herself is not completely human - or some combination of these.
She could be a lesbian!
Or just a geeky, smart girl who's not interested in romance. It would be a first if a woman like that were portrayed well and respectably on television.
WILLOW!
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
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Exactly, and how *&^%ing cool was Willow? That's right!
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Moffat has said that the episode in which Amy and Rory are written out will feature Weeping Angels and that "not everyone makes it out alive ... and I mean it this time," or words to that effect, but of course he's the master of the misleading spoiler so I don't know how seriously to take any of that.
Can I just say how completely disturbing I find this idea? If they really are going to go down that road, I'm going to need to buy a fifth of Jack Daniels to help me get through the show. Even then it will still completely fuck me up.
One last word on Karen-- she might not be the best actress in the world, but she showed evidence of having some chops. I was rooting for her. I think she scored a couple of the best lines of the entire season spoken by anyone. And as far as some of the (baffling, to me) comments about her looks go, I think she has the face of an angel. No pun intended. Different strokes, I guess.
Posted by Jahlove (# 10290) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Exactly, and how *&^%ing cool was Willow? That's right!
not at the start - but she got cooler'n'cooler as things progressed - in fact, imo, she was the most well-continously-developed character in the whole series.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
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"Investing in character development" concurrently with "throwing in sexy plot developments" seems to be a developing theme in our collective analysis.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
She could be a lesbian!
...or asexual/aromantic
quote:
Or just a geeky, smart girl who's not interested in romance. It would be a first if a woman like that were portrayed well and respectably on television.
...or romance could just not be relevant - it worked perfectly well in parts of the old series.
Liz Shaw (1970-72) was a high-flying no-nonsense scientist, and her relationship with the Doctor was natural, both close and professional.
It is perfectly possible for two (or more) people of any gender to maintain a close friendship without romantic attraction. Maybe modern television needs to relearn that...
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Peri has to top the All-Time Most Annoying Companion List, basically because she whined so much. With Amy Pond second and Adric third.
Surely Mel would have to top the list, followed, in no particular order by Peri, Tegan, Adric and Tennant-era Rose....
As companions go I think Amy was quite enjoyable...
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
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quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
It is perfectly possible for two (or more) people of any gender to maintain a close friendship without romantic attraction. Maybe modern television needs to relearn that...
Yeah, and if anybody seems equipped to help teach that particular lesson, it's Smith. He's like the Vicar of Hug on Earth or something.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
It is perfectly possible for two (or more) people of any gender to maintain a close friendship without romantic attraction. Maybe modern television needs to relearn that...
Yeah, and if anybody seems equipped to help teach that particular lesson, it's Smith. He's like the Vicar of Hug on Earth or something.
Yes, there is a reason why he is one of my favourite doctors (only surpassed by Pertwee, IMHO)
![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
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Meh. I did enough gushing on the last version of this thread, but IMO, both on and off the show, he seems like an incredibly generous soul who pours that into his performance. And I'm not taking kindly to the above references to "regeneration." 12 can show up in five years or so. If ever.
OK, now I want to him to top his own act. Laurels are not for resting on.
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Yes, it was my reaction too - I thought a bit vapid - but when I watched the video clip I found myself liking her as she seemed a bit more focused.
What I'd still like to see is the Doctor with a geeky young male companion who's a complete whiz at computers and anything technological, but is completely hopeless with women. Plenty of scope for enjoyment, sympathy and a possible romantic build-up that for once wouldn't star the Doctor.
They’ve kind of done that with this regeneration of Doctor this time though. He’s regularly referred to staying at home reading sonic screwdriver and Tardis manuals whilst the other Timelords were out at dances and on the pull …
I shall wait and watch a few first before deciding whether or not the new companion is A Good Thing. Of the ones in New Who, Amy and Rory were probably the two companions I’ve liked the best. The idea of the young couple is a nod to Classic Who as well – which is a nice touch.
The idea of Rose was good – the Doctor finally falls in love and you get to see the effect on those left behind when someone goes time-travelling – but she overstayed her welcome. Martha was just “Rose-lite” and they didn’t do as much with her as they probably could have. (And did I mention her ending was silly … Martha and Ricky … where did that come from?).
Tubbs
Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
The idea of Rose was good – the Doctor finally falls in love and you get to see the effect on those left behind when someone goes time-travelling – but she overstayed her welcome. Martha was just “Rose-lite” and they didn’t do as much with her as they probably could have. (And did I mention her ending was silly … Martha and Ricky … where did that come from?).
Yes. Rose was in keeping with NuWho, being a vehicle for a hint of sex appeal, and (especially with Ten) a rather cliched will-they-won't-they tension, but primarily she existed to have a normal life (for certain values of normal) which was being messed about, which Martha also did but not as well. That's a shame, because Martha could have been a very interesting character, but I think it was too easy to write as if Rose had never gone, and Find&Replace "Rose" for "Martha". That's why Donna - she could never be mistaken for Rose 3.0, and allowed everyone to finally move on.
I'm in the minority, but I don't really mind Amy. She's not one of the greats, and her personal story had more weight put on it than it could comfortably bear, but I think her main trouble was that Eleven simply steals the show.
Now that Moffat's got this sorted out, is there any chance of a coherent series which holds together and actually makes sense, rather than a mishmash of snappy dialogue, big explosions and unresolved teasers?
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
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The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
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quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
...
Now that Moffat's got this sorted out, is there any chance of a coherent series which holds together and actually makes sense, rather than a mishmash of snappy dialogue, big explosions and unresolved teasers?
Fingers crossed for the new season!
Tubbs
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Well there was Ian. But the Doctor / companion dynamics were very different back then.
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space? It's great fun. A fan undertakes to watch every episode of the classic series (or listen to reconstructions when the originals aren't available) with his wife, who's spent her life studiously avoiding it. Some of her comments are priceless.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
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What's wrong with snappy dialogue and big explosions?
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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works for me...
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Well there was Ian. But the Doctor / companion dynamics were very different back then.
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space? It's great fun. A fan undertakes to watch every episode of the classic series (or listen to reconstructions when the originals aren't available) with his wife, who's spent her life studiously avoiding it. Some of her comments are priceless.
Off the top of my head ... Ian, Ben, Peter Purves, Jamie, Harry, Turlough, Adric, Mickey and Rory. The ones that worked were the ones that well written and acted. (So, definately NOT some of the '80s ones then. And the 60's ones I've only ever heard about. Harry wasn't bad, Rory is excellent and Mickey was a big of a missed opportunity. Excellent actor given bugger all to do).
Thanks for the blog recommend. I've not come across it before so will enjoy having a rummage though.
Tubbs
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Well there was Ian. But the Doctor / companion dynamics were very different back then.
A firend of mine calls the original set-up "Team Tardis". I agree with him that it worked well andmight be worth trying again. Arguably, adding Rory was a step in that direction.
As for male companions that worked - does the Brig count as a companion? And there is Jack, of course, good in a very differnt way.
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space? It's great fun. A fan undertakes to watch every episode of the classic series (or listen to reconstructions when the originals aren't available) with his wife, who's spent her life studiously avoiding it. Some of her comments are priceless.
I have been reading it! It is a fun and refreshing way to re-experience the classic stories. "They should have called the show 'Ian'."
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Off the top of my head ... Ian, Ben, Peter Purves, Jamie, Harry, Turlough, Adric, Mickey and Rory. The ones that worked were the ones that well written and acted. (So, definately NOT some of the '80s ones then.
Captain Jack is my favourite. Turlough was great too - he was a good actor.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
:
Adventures of the Wife in Space is wonderful! I'd never seen it before, and I'm having a hard job not laughing out loud. (Not a good idea as I am covering a class, and should be marking.) This comment on a classic moment is the latest to tickle me: quote:
The Daleks are luring the Thals to their doom with coconuts and rolls of toilet paper. What’s that all about? What are the Daleks doing with toilet paper? Sewing kits might have been a better choice of gift
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Sue: If this was a modern Doctor, you’d just assume that he was playing with them and that he had a plan up his sleeve, but with this git you really believe that he’ll sell everyone out just to get away. What a total knob.
Good luck, Robert Armin. I would have had to step out of the classroom within seconds.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
PS: Yeah, they need to bring Jack back. Aim him straight at 11, and vice versa. If either one of them carries any less than a +10 against Irresistible Charm, he's in big trouble.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space?
Yes. Indeed, I remember recommending it on this very board.
Posted by New Yorker (# 9898) on
:
I have never watched Dr. Who. If I were to start watching, what background information or tidbit of knowledge should I be aware of?
Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
What's wrong with snappy dialogue and big explosions?
Nothing, as long as there's something behind it. When it's used to cover for an incoherent and nonsensical plot, I think it's a problem.
Of course, Moffat does snappy dialogue very well, and spectacular explosions and CGI are great if done well, but I want a storyline that makes sense. He can claim with some justification that his first series was a whole new start, and it appears there were all sorts of problems in production of last year's sort of twin series, but he seems to have dropped a few notches since taking over, and in general, I found Moffat's scripts last year weak in comparison with other writers, aimed at spectacle rather than story.
Just my opinion, and it appears I'm in the minority, but I think Moffat's writing Chinese Takeaway scripts, which are enjoyable enough at the time, but leave you feeling empty. I'd just like a few more three-course meals.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
:
Gumby, lots of folk agree with you about Moffat's series. Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run. In fact I recently joined anther discussion board, where you say a bit about yourself and list your interests. Even though it wasn't anything to do with Sci-Fi, my listing Doctor Who as an interest brought amused derision that I could still say that in the Moffat-Smith era.
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Harry Sullivan?
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I have never watched Dr. Who. If I were to start watching, what background information or tidbit of knowledge should I be aware of?
That's a tough one to answer. The show is planning on celebrating its 50th anniversary next year--there is a LOT of background information and almost everything has an exception to it!
However, the basics: The character is called simply "the Doctor" (usually). He travels through time and space (usually) in the TARDIS, which looks like a 1960s-era British police call box (rather like a blue wooden telephone booth)(usually), which is larger on the inside than the outside (usually).
It gets more complicated after that.
For comparison purposes, Star Trek foresees something of a paramilitary paradise where most everybody is happy with a captain making decisions for the group. Sort of. Doctor Who is more anarchic, with an individual who just travels around randomly (usually) and gets involved in adventures. Sort of.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I have never watched Dr. Who. If I were to start watching, what background information or tidbit of knowledge should I be aware of?
I'm tempted to say "Nothing - just start", but it's not quite that simple. For instance, if you start watching stories from the very first, you need to know that at the beginning, the Doctor isn't a hero. He was (and sometimes still is) ethically ambiguous, and his motives are often suspect.
If you start watching shows from 1970 onwards (the third incarnation), you need to know he's of an alien race called Time Lords. After about 1976 that gets even more complicated and a whole Time Lord mythos starts building up.
You need to know that the companions come and go, sometimes quite quickly. There are a few whom he "acquires" in a way that you can only really call abduction. Most, however, come along for the ride without knowing what they're letting themselves in for. The Doctor rarely shows any remorse for putting their lives at risk.
You need to know that for a few years in the 1970s, the Doctor was exiled to Earth and worked for an organisation called UNIT, which investigated strange goings-on.
You need to know that some of the stories are total turkeys, some are among the best things ever to grace a tv screen, and most are still better than just about anything else currently on tv. Continuity, especially pre-1980s, is somewhat malleable, and you might over the years get several completely incompatible explanations of the same thing.
You need to know about the 16 years or thereabouts that the show wasn't being made in the 90s and early 00s, which divides it into "classic series" and "nuWho". You need to know that whatever the fans say, both of these are in their own way as glorious as each other.
Oh, and have a sofa to hide behind. It's a well established fact that the Daleks can't get you if you're hiding behind a sofa.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Which leads me to ask, is anyone following
Adventures with the Wife in Space?
Yes. Indeed, I remember recommending it on this very board.
Was that when I started reading it? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
I don't remember. If it is, thank you - it's brilliant.
(It's even better when you discover Sue is a geordie - that accent!)
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...
Oh, and have a sofa to hide behind. It's a well established fact that the Daleks can't get you if you're hiding behind a sofa.
They can, however, do stairs.
Tubbs
[ 27. March 2012, 13:51: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Gumby, lots of folk agree with you about Moffat's series. Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run. In fact I recently joined anther discussion board, where you say a bit about yourself and list your interests. Even though it wasn't anything to do with Sci-Fi, my listing Doctor Who as an interest brought amused derision that I could still say that in the Moffat-Smith era.
And I'm pretty sure that if it were Star Trek, they'd have mocked you for thinking Next Generation was better than the original.
Side note for those who have never seen both: original ST is like 1970's Who, but without as many good (or even "don't fall over and die before they're shot") actors or writers.
And if I recall correctly, don't the angels send you back into the past, killing you by old age—well, unless you try to fight them? Wouldn't you expect the Doctor to go back and save his in-laws? For all this talk about Amy being annoying (seriously, did any of you see an episode with Rose in it?!?!?!), I can't see her or Rory being killed off.
As for plot holes and flash—isn't that the point of Who? Come up with technical sounding mumbo-jumbo to get yourself into a hole, lots of running about, come up with a deus ex machina to dig yourself out. The Key to Time series may be the best example of this, as well as a standard-issue MacGuffin chase: the Doctor has to go after a powerful artifact to help preserve order in the universe, but never actually uses it! Sure, he keeps the Black Guardian from getting it, but his quest wasn't just that—it was to let it be used to restore balance to the cosmos. Had he just grabbed a piece, found a really good hiding spot, then gone putting around space and time with Romana, we'd have gotten the same result. Face it: annoying companions, plot holes, and generally strange writing are nothing new in Who.
Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on
:
Interesting. I can think of 3 places where I regularly discuss Who, including here. In each, I'm in a quibbling minority, but it's not exactly that I don't like or enjoy it - Matt Smith is easily one of the best Doctors ever, and some of the stories are superb. It's just that the overall effect doesn't satisfy me. There are two things that I can clearly put my finger on:
First, spending money because it's there. Moffat's invention of the Weeping Angels was pure genius, and it turned Blink into an all-time classic, despite being a filler episode. Since then, they've been over-exposed to Dalek-like levels, appeared in huge numbers, started moving and flying, and have actually become much less interesting. It's no coincidence that some of the very best episodes in recent years have been done on the cheap. Sometimes, less is more.
The other thing is dodgy, paradoxical time travel. I know you're going to say that Classic Who was worse, and you'd be right, but that was OK, because it was never (that I can remember - someone will probably correct me) essential to the plot, and you could choose to overlook it. When Nu Who starts building entire series around timey-wimey jiggery-pokery, it's staring you in the face. You can't choose to ignore it, because that's all there is. You need to get it right, and I think Moffat ended up confusing himself last year.
And now I've gone all Grumpy Old Man again. I really want to like and enjoy Doctor Who, and every so often there's an episode which reminds me of why I do, but like I said, much of the time it just leaves me feeling empty and unsatisfied.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run.
Nope. Lots and lots of sf fans and the like are into current Dr Who. Its only those mundane type who watch Hollyoaks and Emmerdale and dodgy sex shows on BBC3 who think its boring. Really ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Harry Sullivan?
Portrayed as an old bore who I can hardly remember at all. Maybe because he had to share a screen with Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen and he (or his scripts) couldn't compete. Though the character did suffer from having come out of the mid-Pertwee period, in many ways the least good Who ever.
The competition for least good era might be late Baker II and early McCoy, and just possibly some mid-period Troughton. Though in their cases they are rescued by the later McCoy with Ace, and some of the other Troughton serials, being the best Who ever. Pertwee never got the glorious stories needed to make up for the just plain un-Whoiness of his character in the being-stuck-on-Earth period - though he did get Katy Manning who made the whole thing very watchable if you were 12 or 13 at thte time...
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
The best place to start with Doctor Who is probably Rose, Episode One Season One, of the New Series, since the first series is pretty efficient in explaining the basic concepts.
I'm not sure that there's a good place to start with the Classic Series. Probably pick a story with a good reputation and jump in. While no two Doctor Who fans agree on what the best stories are, the following are all highly regarded:
The Invasion (black and white)
The War Games (black and white)
Carnival of Monsters
Genesis of the Daleks
The Brain of Morbius
Robots of Death
Talons of Weng-Chiang
Horror of Fang Rock
City of Death
Remembrance of the Daleks
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run.
Nope. Lots and lots of sf fans and the like are into current Dr Who. Its only those mundane type who watch Hollyoaks and Emmerdale and dodgy sex shows on BBC3 who think its boring.
Ken, there are lots of people out there who disagree with you, on all number of subjects. Your recurring tactic of rubbishing anyone who thinks differently to you has got very boring. And predictable.
(BTW I've never watched Hollyoaks or Emmerdale or dodgy sex shows on BBC3.)
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run.
For a lot of people these days David Tennant is their Doctor and Russell Davies their producer/script editor in chief. It's expected of Doctor Who fandom that you slag off the era before and after your Doctor and production team.
The classic fan blogs I'm following think quite highly of the Smith era. (That's Wife in Space and TardisEruditorum.) I think it's true to say that a lot of people think it's not quite as good as it could be given the actors and the chief writer (I could do without River Song). But I don't think saying that is saying much.
[ 27. March 2012, 21:01: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
A firend of mine calls the original set-up "Team Tardis". I agree with him that it worked well andmight be worth trying again.
I think it worked better when they swapped Susan for Vicki.
They tried to replicate the dynamic with Davison's TARDIS. But the script editor at the time was completely incapable of writing likeable characters and the producer didn't care.
I'm not sure that dynamic is really replicable. Hartnell's Doctor isn't really the Doctor at all. He has a completely different origin story from all the other Doctors. Ian and Barbara are the heroes. Hartnell's character can't really become the Doctor as we know him until first Susan and then Ian and Barbara leave.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
I have never watched Dr. Who. If I were to start watching, what background information or tidbit of knowledge should I be aware of?
For mainly geographical and chronological reasons (i.e. living in the wrong country when it was on, and in the right one when it wasn't), I found myself in that situation when New Who arrived, and I needed to learn fast.
I saw New Who as it went out, so Rose came first, as intended.
One of the first classic stories I was shown was Spearhead from Space, and I think that was the one which made me a fan.
It is Jon Wertwee's first story, and a new departure in many ways: new body, new companion, new situation (stuck on Earth) - and in colur for the first time. It is therefore a very introductory kind of episode, with lots of background and exposition.
Incidentally, it shares an important detail with Rose, but I won't spoil it by saying what.
Alternatively, you could start with the very very first story, An Unearthly Child (1963), but be aware that aside from the introductory episode, it is not considered one of the best stories, and is very much of its time. It's not as bad as some say, though. The original second story was The Daleks - a introducing the most celebrated villains.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
One of the first classic stories I was shown was Spearhead from Space, and I think that was the one which made me a fan.
I nearly suggested starting with Spearhead from Space. It's the only point in the classic run that is set up as a jumping in point. (I wouldn't start with An Unearthly Child, since by modern standards early Doctor Who is an acquired taste.) But the Third Doctor's era is just so atypical of the series as a whole until he's allowed off 20th century earth again.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The only male companion who ever worked properly was Jamie. And even then it needed a continual supply of pretty young women to keep the stories going. Includng some of the best ever companions of course.
Jamie was the best male companion after Rory and Ian (and Ian doesn't really count because he's one of the leads). But Ben works, at least in Power of the Daleks, and Steven works, at least in The Time Meddler.
Zoe may be the best black and white era companion excepting Ian and Barbara (who again don't really count). But Polly and Victoria, while good, weren't in the same league as Zoe, let alone Ace or Leela.
[ 27. March 2012, 21:27: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
One of the first classic stories I was shown was Spearhead from Space, and I think that was the one which made me a fan.
I nearly suggested starting with Spearhead from Space. It's the only point in the classic run that is set up as a jumping in point. (I wouldn't start with An Unearthly Child, since by modern standards early Doctor Who is an acquired taste.) But the Third Doctor's era is just so atypical of the series as a whole until he's allowed off 20th century earth again.
To return the compliment The Horror of Fang Rock from your list was another one of the stepping stones for me, seen before Spearhead and it worked very well as a standalone. So I'd definitely second that one!
(in the end, I turned out a Pertwee fan, so my judgement may be somewhat biased in that direction...)
Conversely, the very first one I saw was The Aztecs (1964-ish), which I now think is very good, but it mystified me at the time.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
Spearhead from Space scared the crap out of me when I was seven. And you know what? Still does. And it's not just that scene (anybody who's seen it knows the one) - the whole thing is creepy. There's one scene where the Doctor and the Brigadier are in the plastics factory and you see Channing's face through a pane of frosted glass. It's grotesque. The whole thing is full of deftly nasty touches like that.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
Conversely, the very first one I saw was The Aztecs (1964-ish), which I now think is very good, but it mystified me at the time.
The Aztecs is classy. Everything John Lucarotti wrote is superb, and in that story it's backed up by good acting, good design, and good directing. And the music is by Richard Rodney Bennett.
Posted by Saviour Tortoise (# 4660) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
First, spending money because it's there. Moffat's invention of the Weeping Angels was pure genius, and it turned Blink into an all-time classic, despite being a filler episode. Since then, they've been over-exposed to Dalek-like levels, appeared in huge numbers, started moving and flying, and have actually become much less interesting. It's no coincidence that some of the very best episodes in recent years have been done on the cheap. Sometimes, less is more.
Got to agree with that. "Blink" is, for me, some of the best Dr Who ever written. (I came in at the end of Tom Baker. "My Doctor" is probably Peter Davison. I've seen a lot of Doctors III and IV since though.) They were somewhat spoilt through over explanation. I happen to think the same problem applied with RTD though. The pressure of being overall show runner means you don't have the time to really hone your own scripts. SM's scripts during RTD's period were absolutely superb. He's not produced anything of that quality since taking on overall responsibility for the show.
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on
:
I hope this works. I've just created a shutterfly share site which I'll use to share pics of interest to SoF folks.
The first one is Dr Who related, just for this thread. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
I was closing up at Grace Cathedral, and noticed something I hadn't before... so I snapped a photo, and added the text:
link to photo
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
Okay, I laughed at that one. Well played.
New Who is at its best when being creepy—see Blink, The Doctor's Wife, or the part of Day of the Moon in the children's home. Can the vast Dalek fleets, turn the show into a suspenseful horror series, and it might actually work better.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Yes, AA, bring on the creepy!
Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on
:
I'm not sure Peri was in the series to be listened to. She got the job for other reasons i think, and was equally effective at that with the sound turned down.
However Mel has to be the all time worst case of miscasting (except for Kamelion - a robot that no one knew how to work) ever in Who.
Can't think of any redeeming feature of Mel's tenure. Any challengers?
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Spearhead from Space scared the crap out of me when I was seven. And you know what? Still does. And it's not just that scene (anybody who's seen it knows the one) - the whole thing is creepy. There's one scene where the Doctor and the Brigadier are in the plastics factory and you see Channing's face through a pane of frosted glass. It's grotesque. The whole thing is full of deftly nasty touches like that.
Is it Spearhead or Terror of the Autons that's got the doll in it? That freaked me for weeks when I first watched it. Completely forgot about it and was completely freaked out again when I caught it on the UK Gold re-runs.
Tubbs
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Spearhead from Space scared the crap out of me when I was seven. And you know what? Still does. And it's not just that scene (anybody who's seen it knows the one) - the whole thing is creepy. There's one scene where the Doctor and the Brigadier are in the plastics factory and you see Channing's face through a pane of frosted glass. It's grotesque. The whole thing is full of deftly nasty touches like that.
Is it Spearhead or Terror of the Autons that's got the doll in it? That freaked me for weeks when I first watched it. Completely forgot about it and was completely freaked out again when I caught it on the UK Gold re-runs.
Tubbs
That was Terror of the Autons. Same writer. And he went on to script-edit the show, too. During his tenure we had a regular diet of torture, electrocution, mutations, desiccated corpses, walking Egyptian mummies (well, robots disguised as), headless stitched-together monsters, and villains in various stages of bodily decomposition.
Ah, happy days ...
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
Not to mention Ark in Space, of which the TardisEruditorum blog says:
quote:
I won't lie. It's a man with bubble wrap glued to him. But it's the scariest man with bubble wrap glued to him ever.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Spearhead from Space scared the crap out of me when I was seven. And you know what? Still does...
That's what the sofa is for.
Always make sure there is enough space behind it for all the familiy
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Apart from on the Ship, all I hear are complaints about the whole Matt Smith run.
For a lot of people these days David Tennant is their Doctor and Russell Davies their producer/script editor in chief. It's expected of Doctor Who fandom that you slag off the era before and after your Doctor and production team.
The classic fan blogs I'm following think quite highly of the Smith era. (That's Wife in Space and TardisEruditorum.) I think it's true to say that a lot of people think it's not quite as good as it could be given the actors and the chief writer (I could do without River Song). But I don't think saying that is saying much.
Dafyd, even back in the early 80s I'd realised that people always seemed to dislike after the Doctor after the one they they first knew. You get used to one day of doing things, and find it really hard to cope when they change. But after that "second Doctor" things normally settle down, and you get a more balanced vision.
One of the main things I like about the Ship is finding that other people have very different views on subjects where I like to believe I am absolutely right. Doctor Who is a good case in point. I don't follow any of the fan sites (although I am loving Wife in Space) and I don't know enough to rank as a serious fan. But I'm not convinced by Moffatt (as producer) and Smith, and the people I meet and talk to aren't either. It's only here, on the Ship, who like, nay rave, about them. Now, I have no idea why this division exists, which side has more numbers on it, let alone which side is "right". But it does make for some fascinating discussions, provided neither side simply ignores those who disagree with them.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Hartnell's Doctor isn't really the Doctor at all.
But, but... Hartnell is the Doctor!
OK, he's not "my" Doctor, that would be Troughton, but he is certainly the Doctor. The grumpiness, egotism, dangerous inquisitivness, and strangely selective cowardice, they are all still there and always have been. Its just some younger versions hide some parts of the character flaws better.
quote:
He has a completely different origin story from all the other Doctors. .
He lied.
He's a Timelord. Timelords always lie. About that sort of thing anyway.
Posted by Jahlove (# 10290) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
...
Oh, and have a sofa to hide behind. It's a well established fact that the Daleks can't get you if you're hiding behind a sofa.
They can, however, do stairs.
Tubbs
yes Flying Daleks are a totally unfair CHEAT!
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
He has a completely different origin story from all the other Doctors. .
He lied.
He's a Timelord. Timelords always lie. About that sort of thing anyway.
Susan backs up his story. In fact, the mere fact of her presence in the TARDIS is inexplicable on the post-Troughton account of the Doctor's origin.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
:
[tangent] I often access the Ship at work, during breaks. From work there are various threads I'm not able to read - pretty much all of Hell in fact - and I assume this is because they contain words that set off the firewall. However, I can't get onto this thread either. I keep thinking someone must have posted something blistering, then I get home, and all is sweet reason. Has anyone a theory about what is going on? [/tangent]
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
I'm just guessing but the words "sex appeal" feature on the previous page, which could be a phrase that might trigger off the firewall's alert system?
Posted by Saviour Tortoise (# 4660) on
:
Or perhaps your network admin is, in fact, the latest regeneration of The Master!
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
[ 29. March 2012, 21:24: Message edited by: Saviour Tortoise ]
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
[tangent] I often access the Ship at work, during breaks. From work there are various threads I'm not able to read - pretty much all of Hell in fact - and I assume this is because they contain words that set off the firewall. However, I can't get onto this thread either. I keep thinking someone must have posted something blistering, then I get home, and all is sweet reason. Has anyone a theory about what is going on? [/tangent]
Someone mentioned Adric, and your firewall had mercy.
Posted by beatmenace (# 16955) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I'm not sure that there's a good place to start with the Classic Series. Probably pick a story with a good reputation and jump in. While no two Doctor Who fans agree on what the best stories are, the following are all highly regarded:
The Invasion (black and white)
The War Games (black and white)
Carnival of Monsters
Genesis of the Daleks
The Brain of Morbius
Robots of Death
Talons of Weng-Chiang
Horror of Fang Rock
City of Death
Remembrance of the Daleks
Good stories all
No Hartnell though. Although some of these are a bit iffy but i think The Aztecs and The Romans are good examples of the historical stories which the series shied away from after that. The Romans story is referenced by DT in the new series.
If you REALLY want the Sci-Fi, Dalek Invasion of Earth is a good one from that era - although a bit padded.
If you want a top Troughton story - i would go with Tomb of the Cybermen rather than The Invasion which i founnd a bit padded.
For a good and fairly typical Pertwee tale i would say that Inferno is a good one, and the Green Death is famous for its maggots (and dodgy model fly).
No argument with the Tom Baker stories , but i would also suggest Caves of Androzani (Davidson) , Curse of Fenric and Ghost Light from the McCoy era.
Struggling with an outstanding Colin Baker episode though. Not his fault, the writers seemed to be trying to kill the series then.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Someone mentioned Adric, and your firewall had mercy.
You've just mentioned him again. Robert's firewall is probably having a fit.
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
:
I liked the Two Doctors (and it had Servalan/Jacqueline Pearce, of course), from the Colin Baker era. They even got to go to Spain for that one, I think.
Posted by New Yorker (# 9898) on
:
What's a Dalek?
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
I liked the Two Doctors (and it had Servalan/Jacqueline Pearce, of course), from the Colin Baker era. They even got to go to Spain for that one, I think.
Seville, IIRC
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
What's a Dalek?
A recurring enemy. The recurring enemy, really. Mutant creatures, the aftermath of a chemical and atomic war, encased in "travel machines". Each machine is about five feet tall and glides around on a flat base. They can levitate (though for about the first 25 years of the show's history the special effects weren't up to showing this, which gave rise to the running joke that Daleks can subjugate the universe but can't cope with stairs). They've been genetically engineered to be raving xenophobes, bent on "exterminating" all other species. In a telling comment, a Dalek about to go into battle once said, "This is not war. This is pest control."
Having already had several encounters with them, in 1975 the Doctor was sent back in time to try and avert their creation. Someone has made this trailer that shows the basics of that story, usually hailed as one of the best in the show's history. The Daleks' creator, Davros, had never been seen before this story, but has often appeared since - most recently here.
The Daleks haven't always been served by good scripts or production values, but Doctor Who wouldn't exist without them. What started out as a modest kids' sci-fi / history-fi show suddenly became an instant classic when the Daleks first appeared.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by beatmenace:
... Curse of Fenric and Ghost Light from the McCoy era.
Ghost Light is one of the best ever, up there with The Evil of the Daleks (or at least the memory of that classic story as three-quarters of the video has been lost )
But the whole of that last year's run is worth watching - its arguably the best year of the show ever, Battlefield, Ghost Light, The Curse of Fenric, and Survival, as good a set of four stories in a row as ever on Who.
The previous McCoy seasons aren't up to that level but Remembrance of the Daleks, the 25th anniversary story, is bloody good. As well as being the backstory to much of the revived series - it really is a battle in the Time War.
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
What's a Dalek?
The embodiment of postwar Britain's wartime fears, in the same way the Klingons were for America. What could be more frightening to people who had survived the Blitz than Nazis in space?
Of course, the Klingons (like the Japanese) later became friendly in the American popular imagination; the collectivist, assimilationist Borg, however, never really did.* It's also interesting to note that the Borg/Communist equivalent in Who, the Cybermen, may be a "classic" enemy, but still can't compete with the Daleks.
*Yes, I know about Hugh and Seven of Nine, but not only were they exceptions, but the fact that they were very notable exceptions was referenced. Worf? Whatever.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
:
So who would win a war between the Borg and the Daleks?
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
What's a Dalek?
The embodiment of postwar Britain's wartime fears, in the same way the Klingons were for America. What could be more frightening to people who had survived the Blitz than Nazis in space?
Of course, the Klingons (like the Japanese) later became friendly in the American popular imagination; the collectivist, assimilationist Borg, however, never really did.* It's also interesting to note that the Borg/Communist equivalent in Who, the Cybermen, may be a "classic" enemy, but still can't compete with the Daleks.
*Yes, I know about Hugh and Seven of Nine, but not only were they exceptions, but the fact that they were very notable exceptions was referenced. Worf? Whatever.
I think the fear of the Japanese was mirrored more in the Romulans, while the Klingons were closer to being identified as the Russians. This tallies with the warming of relations with the Klingons towards the end of the Cold War (the catastrophe at the beginning of The Undiscovered Country can be interpreted as a thinly-disgused Chernobyl).
The Borg seem to resemble a more abstract concept of collectivism (for which probably read Communism), and Hugh and Seven of Nine fit into that interpretation: they can become individuals after being removed from the collective (or "Communist" society).
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
So who would win a war between the Borg and the Daleks?
The Borg.
The Daleks are much less competent than they think they are.
Now the Doctor vs. the Borg - that would be an interesting one...
[ 30. March 2012, 20:52: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
So who would win a war between the Borg and the Daleks?
The Borg.
The Daleks are much less competent than they think they are.
I think it would end up rather like the Dalek-Movellan war, in which case (under the Doctor's theory) the less competent will win. (The Dalek-Movellan war ended up in a draw because both sides were equally incompetent.)
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
Daleks beat Borg because they have time-travel.
And because, even though they pretend to be unemotional and strictly scientific, the average Dalek is as emotional as an emotional thing that runs around the universe screaming "No one likes as and we don't care!" while exterminating everything in sight with neutron bombs.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And because, even though they pretend to be unemotional and strictly scientific, the average Dalek is as emotional as an emotional thing that runs around the universe screaming "No one likes as and we don't care!" while exterminating everything in sight with neutron bombs.
This. Daleks beat Borg because while the Borg are interested in assimilating other races, the Daleks are only interested in wiping them out. They might use you as slave labour for a bit, and torture you for any useful information you might have, but to a Dalek, any other species is basically as cockroaches are to us - rather revolting, annoyingly ubiquitous, and to be stamped on whenever the occasion arises.
(Actually Daleks beat Borg because Daleks beat Cybermen, and Borg are just Cybermen without the sleek steel armour.)
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
:
The Borg did time travel in the 8th Star Trek film.
I suspect that in one to one fighting a Dalek would cane a Borg but when it came to ship to ship fighting I'm not so sure. Borg ships can take a lot of punishment before being destroyed because they can adapt whereas once a Dalek ship takes a serious hit it is finished.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by New Yorker:
What's a Dalek?
The first thing you have to realise about daleks is that on paper they are utterly laughable. They are giant pepperpots with a sink plunger for an eye, another sink plunger for a hand, and an egg whisk for a gun. We are supposed to believe that they are warmachines inhabited by genocidal tentacled blobs.
The second thing you have to realise is that not only do they work on screen, they are all the more creepy for being something that nobody would believe would work if they didn't see them.
Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on
:
Actually, I find the Daleks just as laughable on screen as they sound on paper. This is coming from someone who came to Doctor Who as an adult with no background of watching the original series as a child. I once ranted on a blog about how utterly unscary the Daleks are and what a useless excuse for a threatening alien race (on the same blog where I rated the Borg as my scariest alien race ever) and was highly honoured to get a comment from Rob Shearman (who wrote the 2005 episode "Dalek"), who posted:
quote:
…Got to hold up my hand apologetically – I was the writer who brought back the Daleks in the Christopher Eccleston series. The complaints you raise about them – that they’re ranting pepperpots with a determinedly 1960s design – was, I remember, my principle concern as I worked on the episode! In my defence, I’ll say that in Britain there’s something about Daleks, no matter how retro the look and how unsubtle the dialogue, that’s hard wired into our nostalgic sympathy – and when I went on set at last, after months of scripting, and met my very first Dalek close up in all his saltshaker glory, I couldn’t resist giving the metallic monster a hug.
Of course, I was thrilled to get a comment on my blog from anyone connected with Doctor Who. I really do think there's something about that "hardwired into the nostalgic sympathy" thing for people who grew up watching Classic Who, that makes them work. I'd be interested to know if others who aren't British and didn't watch the classic series, share my contempt for the Daleks.
Incidentally, Rob Shearman didn't directly address my rant, in the same blog post, about the complete ridiculousness of the Slitheen, but he did say:
quote:
I agree with a lot of what you said, too – just don’t tell the BBC!
But then, of course, he didn't write the Slitheen episodes.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
Yes Daleks seemed really scary to me as a kid. Even now there is a little thrill or shiver.
Never got that from Cybermen. The original ones were horrible in a very icky way - they looked as if wrapped in slightly moist bandages and had a kind of Frankenstein's Monster feel, as if they really were made of parts of sick people stolen from hospital beds. Their packs were like portable drip feeds. But every redesign has made them more and more like men in shiny armour.
I was glad that the new Who treated the war between the Cybermen and the Daleks correctly. The publicity bigged it up but when the episode was actually broadcast the Daleks basically wiped the floor with them with one plunger tied behind their backs.
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on
:
Trudy, I'm sorta with you, only instead of laughable I find them adorable. I can, of course, enter into the story and "believe" they're scary, but they do make me want to laugh.
But I love early TV and its limitations and the creativity that required of both the production teams and the viewers. I guess that's part of what I like about the Daleks, and why I'm disappointed with them in the new series, being all polished up and having superpowers (compared to what they had the first time they appeared).
Another thing I liked about them (the earlier version) is that, yes, you could thwart and disable them quite easily, but you had to be clever and sneaky about it. I much prefer that to an enemy that has to be overcome by topping its firepower. That's also what I liked about the Borg - you have to think differently to deal with them.
I was easily scared as a child, but more by creepy things (like some Twilight Zone episodes). I'm still more vulnerable to psychological creepiness. I don't think the Dalek would've scared me as a child, but I can't say for sure. I wonder how much of their frighteningness to children had to do with the voice?
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
I found them reasonably creepy till they colorized them. Then I thought, 'Oh, damn it, someone on the merchandising team is looking for a Duplo tie-in."
And don't even link to the product, I know it's out there.
ETA: Churchgeek, every declaration of Dalek creepiness I have heard seems to center around the voice.
[ 31. March 2012, 19:40: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on
:
The voice just sounds shrill and histrionic to me. They have a one-note emotional register. I think one of the things that makes the Borg so creepy to me (not that they don't have a one-note emotional register too) is the humanness.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
The Borg did time travel in the 8th Star Trek film.
I suspect that in one to one fighting a Dalek would cane a Borg but when it came to ship to ship fighting I'm not so sure. Borg ships can take a lot of punishment before being destroyed because they can adapt whereas once a Dalek ship takes a serious hit it is finished.
Also, for hand-to-hand combat the Borg's collective intelligence would soon work out how to incapacitate a Dalek.
Think of this statement, repeatedly uttered by defeated Daleks "My vision impaired...I cannot see..."
Admittedly, the weapon causing this is usually a jacket or similar item of clothing, and so may not be available to the Borg.
[ 31. March 2012, 23:23: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
I'm kind of picturing one of those cartoons where the short guy is trying to swing his fist at the tall guy, who is holding him at arm's length.
Once again, you gotta appreciate the way hiatus produces creative conversation.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
I am now very much tempted to get out my DVD and watch the Ecclestone "Dalek" episode.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
And if any outcrop of the Star Drek franchise was ever as good as this, I never saw it.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
(shamefaced glancing about, don't want to be pelted by Sci-fi fans)
Agreed about the series, Ken, but the Borg was pretty kickass.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
(Oh, and Barclay. Don't nobody say nothin' about my Barclay.)
Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on
:
I'd put much of DS9 up against NuWho and I think it would come off favourably. Both had their good and bad episodes, but I think the best of both were comparable in quality.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
And if any outcrop of the Star Drek franchise was ever as good as this, I never saw it.
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And if any outcrop of the Star Drek franchise was ever as good as this, I never saw it.
I have a fondness for the very atypical Deep Space Nine episode: Far beyond the Stars
Posted by M. (# 3291) on
:
I (slightly shamefaced admission for someone in her mid-fifties) went to the Doctor Who exhibition in London last year.
And found myself quite wary of the daleks.
M.
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
:
Far Beyond the Stars is one of my favourite DS9 episodes, as well.
Back to the Daleks - they weren't one-note baddies at all! There were at least three emotional states a Dalek could be in. There was the calm, deliberate, order-giving dalek: "Proceed to sector 4 and investigate."
The order-taking dalek (a little higher pitched): "I obey."
And the hysterical Dalek (higher again) "I have failed!"
Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on
:
Which is odd, because there are more than three settings on a ring modulator.
A fourth setting is Cyberman.
Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on
:
The BBC has announced that the new companion is in fact the new Doctor, whose 12th regeneration if female.
Next Doctor is female.
I'd check the date on the press release if I were you.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Dude, don't do that, I was grieving. Not about a female Doctor, mind you-- that would be cool-- but not yet!
it also occurs to me that I am incredibly impressionable and need to work on that...
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
"Paul McGann will be back in Series Two..." Oh, if only.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
:
I'm not scared by the Daleks but I do find them very menacing. The Ecclestone story above with just the single Dalek was, in my opinion, awesome.
Like the rest of the Dr Who monsters, I think the most scary Dalek appearances are the ones when they appear in a recognisable (usually contemporary) setting and suddenly the ordinary and every day isn't. It's not how the monster looks but how it appears and is usually a triumph of superb writing.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
Really, the Daleks aren't that scary - just the most famous enemy. For me, in the 'classic' series, the Autons were much scarier. And the Silurians story had some very disturbing bits - the scenes where the Silurians had initiated a plague were really very nasty.
Even the new series has had some 'I can't believe they showed that at 7pm' moments. 'Don't turn around...' was pretty good. But I think the most awesomely frightening, disturbing story of all is Midnight. Not just the sinister knocking on the hull of the ship/bus, but the way the 'monster' gets inside people's heads. (But is the real monster someone other than the thing that comes from outside ...?)
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
But I think the most awesomely frightening, disturbing story of all is Midnight. Not just the sinister knocking on the hull of the ship/bus, but the way the 'monster' gets inside people's heads. (But is the real monster someone other than the thing that comes from outside ...?)
Absolutely agreed. That was the scariest damn episode in my personal experience. I'd hug a dalek; if I ever see Lesley Sharp walking around my neighborhood, I'll go BRRRR and dive inside the house, quickly.
(Just kidding. She's probably a very nice person. I'd shake her hand and tell her she's hell of an actress.)
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(Oh, and Barclay. Don't nobody say nothin' about my Barclay.)
Who? Lt. Broccoli? ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
I love Broccoli. Back when being nerdy was still uncool, Broccoli was Nerd Commander-in-Chief. He instantly became a fan beloved, because everyone in the audience went, "THAT'S ME! THAT'S ME!"
Beyond that, I love Dwight Schultz, who originally stole my heart as Murdock on the A-Team. I've gone over this before. I should just put it on my CV and be done with it.
Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by beatmenace:
Struggling with an outstanding Colin Baker episode though. Not his fault, the writers seemed to be trying to kill the series then.
"Vengeance on Varos" was pretty good I think. Martin Jarvis gave a strong performance. I liked the way the "re-election of the governor" TV voting system was portrayed - seems quite prescient now!
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
So, semi-tangent since I can't really tell this one anywhere else.
I was out walking in town last night with a certain shirt I got from an ex-girlfriend, when I'm stopped by Nyssa.
No really. That was what her mom named her—yes, after that Nyssa.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
So, semi-tangent since I can't really tell this one anywhere else.
I was out walking in town last night with a certain shirt I got from an ex-girlfriend, when I'm stopped by Nyssa.
No really. That was what her mom named her—yes, after that Nyssa.
Best. T-shirt. Ever.
You don't suppose Nyssa's parents were going for the custom of naming a kid after something that was going on when it was conceived, do you?
If they were, she should be glad it was an episode of The Keeper of Traken, and not this bloke.
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
The voice just sounds shrill and histrionic to me. They have a one-note emotional register. I think one of the things that makes the Borg so creepy to me (not that they don't have a one-note emotional register too) is the humanness.
When I was first becoming an Episcopalian, it struck me that when the whole congregation was saying something together (like reading a Psalm or praying a post-communion prayer or confession), we sounded like the Borg. In the Pentecostal churches of my youth, there was certainly no scripted group reading. Of course the Borg effect only works in liturgy if the sound engineer knows to turn off the presider's/officiant's mic when the congregation is reading together.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
If they were, she should be glad it was an episode of The Keeper of Traken, and not this bloke.
Jesus H. Christ on a crutch. GAHHH! GAHHH! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Screw you, Mr Noseybonk, you've lost your crown.
[ 03. April 2012, 05:43: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
And whaddaymean, "bloke"? That's vagina dentata if I ever saw it.
Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And whaddaymean, "bloke"? That's vagina dentata if I ever saw it.
And that is serious nightmare territory
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Tell me about it. Whoever dreamed that one up needs to be flat on his back on a couch, discussing his dreams with a professional.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I found them reasonably creepy till they colorized them. Then I thought, 'Oh, damn it, someone on the merchandising team is looking for a Duplo tie-in."
Here in Australia they've been re-airing all the 'new' Who, 5 nights a week since January. It's been a great chance to catch some of the ones I missed, but late last week there was the misfortune of seeing "Victory of the Daleks" for a second time, complete with brightly coloured Daleks.
It truly is an awful episode. The interesting thing is that there's been a series and a half since then and I don't believe the awful, brighly coloured Daleks have made another appearance.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Moffat has said that the episode in which Amy and Rory are written out will feature Weeping Angels
I don't know whether to be pleased or disturbed. Because he might use the opportunity to break a few more rules from Blink when they no longer suit. I do like a lot of the Weeping Angels' second appearance, but I still find it hard to get over the changes. There's the new more direct method of killing, but much worse is that suddenly Weeping Angels can move while seen by other Weeping Angels. The whole conclusion of Blink depended on this NOT being true.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
[
It truly is an awful episode. The interesting thing is that there's been a series and a half since then and I don't believe the awful, brighly coloured Daleks have made another appearance.
I thought about that, too. They must have hushed up a riot that broke out somewhere about the colorized Daleks.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And whaddaymean, "bloke"? That's vagina dentata if I ever saw it.
You know, I think you might be right. Dentata or not, that particular anatomical feature isn't really my milieu.
Bear in mind that the writer, Russell T Davies, also penned an episode in which someone is menaced by three homicidal shop window dummies in full bridal dress. Are we seeing a pattern forming here?
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
[
It truly is an awful episode. The interesting thing is that there's been a series and a half since then and I don't believe the awful, brighly coloured Daleks have made another appearance.
I thought about that, too. They must have hushed up a riot that broke out somewhere about the colorized Daleks.
Actually, they do make a cameo in "The Pandorica Opens." Apparently they're Special Daleks, with their colors being indicative of rank or something.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Duplo merchandizing arrangement.
I hasten to add that of the current Duplo set, it's only the Daleks I have a problem with. The TARDIS is cooler than cool, and it features the cutest lil' damn Timelord you ever did see in your entire life.If I were nine, I would be carrying that around in my pocket.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Also, to Adeodatus: Davies has more issues than National Geographic.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
Just in case y'all were on the edges of your seats waiting, the Wife in Space is back after a few weeks' break, reviewing the Tom Baker classic Pyramids of Mars.
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
Moffat has said that the episode in which Amy and Rory are written out will feature Weeping Angels
I don't know whether to be pleased or disturbed. Because he might use the opportunity to break a few more rules from Blink when they no longer suit. I do like a lot of the Weeping Angels' second appearance, but I still find it hard to get over the changes. There's the new more direct method of killing, but much worse is that suddenly Weeping Angels can move while seen by other Weeping Angels. The whole conclusion of Blink depended on this NOT being true.
I HATE it when any TV show does that. Some of us were paying attention, you know!
It shouldn't be hard to remain within the parameters you've already set. That's just part of the challenge of creativity, and it would result in a way more awesome story.
Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(Oh, and Barclay. Don't nobody say nothin' about my Barclay.)
Hands off, he's mine!
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
A woman of taste, I see. he really wore the Starfleet uniform well, didn't he?
I always thought he and Janeway should hook up.
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
So, just saw Spearhead From Space. I think that, in retrospect—and, well, knowing about the Autons—it's a lot less scary. Not a bad episode, but City of Death it wasn't quite.
That said, the AWtWIS commentary was priceless.
"The make-up really does look plastic. It’s almost as if they’re supposed to look like they’re made from plastic and it isn’t a mistake." "Come on love, you can do it."
"She's expecting to find his porn stash"
Oh, and calling Liz "dozy mare." I've got to remember that one . . .
Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on
:
My favourite part of the AWtWiS commentary:
quote:
Me: We are still watching an era of the programme when you weren’t expected to fancy the Doctor.
Sue: Well they are certainly succeeding.
Me: Although a lot of women do find Pertwee irresistible, apparently.
Sue: Now you are just taking the piss.
Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
A woman of taste, I see. he really wore the Starfleet uniform well, didn't he?
I always thought he and Janeway should hook up.
I really, really wanted him to have the confidence to deliver a devastating put-down to the nauseating Wesley, but it never happened.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
I loved Geordi, but I kinda wished Barclay would put him in his place, as well.
Oh, what were we talking about again?
Both Smith and Shultz (dig this segue) kind of remind me of Dick Van Dyke (Smith more so), who reminds me of my maternal grandfather, so perhaps my feelings of admiration are being enhanced by some weird kinship predisposition.
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
:
I've just seen an article about a convention which re-united the entire cast of Next Gen. They were on stage talking together, and the conversation turned to Wil Wheaton.
LeVar Burton said something along the lines of "You were a kid, and sometimes you were a pain in the ass - but you were our pain in the ass."
(and now I'm off to see what the Wife in Space thought of Pyramids of Mars - which absolutely terrified me when I first saw it!)
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
LeVar Burton said something along the lines of "You were a kid, and sometimes you were a pain in the ass - but you were our pain in the ass."
This reminds me of a comment about Matthew Waterhouse (Adric) on one of the Doctor Who DVD commentary tracks. Peter Davison was bemoaning that, during his era on the show, they didn't introduce any "classic" Doctor Who monster. To which Janet Fielding quipped: "We had Matthew."
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
LeVar Burton said something along the lines of "You were a kid, and sometimes you were a pain in the ass - but you were our pain in the ass."
This reminds me of a comment about Matthew Waterhouse (Adric) on one of the Doctor Who DVD commentary tracks. Peter Davison was bemoaning that, during his era on the show, they didn't introduce any "classic" Doctor Who monster. To which Janet Fielding quipped: "We had Matthew."
While I'd agree that Adric deserves the status of the show's worst enemy during his tenure (oh look, Adric's playing along with the enemy again! Is he just acting this time, or did someone hypnotize the kid like last time?), I wouldn't mind seeing more of the Mara. There's something deliciously creepy about the two episodes it appears in, especially with the whole "it's what lives hidden in your own mind" explanation.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
(and now I'm off to see what the Wife in Space thought of Pyramids of Mars - which absolutely terrified me when I first saw it!)
That was seriously freakin' creepy. Even the ads for the special were creepy. And the ending was so dark it was ultraviolet.
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
(and now I'm off to see what the Wife in Space thought of Pyramids of Mars - which absolutely terrified me when I first saw it!)
That was seriously freakin' creepy. Even the ads for the special were creepy. And the ending was so dark it was ultraviolet.
Are you thinking of Waters of Mars?
Pyramids of Mars has Tom Baker and Sarah Jane Smith and robot mummies.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
OH! Well, yes.
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