Ship of Fools: Eccles: On the Naming of Churches

Thread: Eccles: On the Naming of Churches Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

Over the years I've considered the hodge-podge of church names we United Methodists manage to stick on our churches. Rural, southern churches are often called X Memorial or X Chapel, where X is the family name of the people who started it or gave the land for the building. "TownName First" is common, along with streets or neighborhoods (Julia Street, Central, West End, etc.). The church plants in the past fifteen years or so sound more like non-denoms, such as The Orchard (Tupelo, MS) ClearBranch (Trussville, AL), The Bridge (a failed plant in Huntsville, AL), and Community Church Without Walls (downtown Birmingham, AL). A few are named for things relating to John Wesley -- Aldersgate, Epworth -- and a few are called Asbury after one of the two first Methodist bishops in the US*. There are an oddball few named for places in the Bible, particularly the Old Testament (Mt. Nebo, Bethel, Jerusalem), but one finds those more on Baptist churches than Methodist in this part of the world.

Then there are the "religious" names, those names that are saints, aspects of Christianity, or of God. Trinity, Grace, Faith, St. Paul, St. Peter, St. Matthew, St. John, Church of the Reconciler, Church of the Resurrection, St. Junia (this one pleases me mightily; it is a brand new plant in Birmingham's poverty-stricken inner city neighborhood of West End), and a host of Christ Church (or Christ the King, or simply Christ). Interestingly, I find the vast majority of United Methodist churches which are named for saints don't put the "'s" on it (St. Matthew instead of St. Matthew's, for instance). I don't quite know why this is.

The last section is most similar to the Episcopal and Catholic churches I've come across, though I cannot think of any Methodist churches named for extra-Biblical saints such as Ignatius, Francis, or Augustine. Even the number named for St. Barnabas or St. Stephen fall far short of Sts. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul. If there are any named for the Blessed Virgin I am certainly not aware; most Methodists would have a bit of a conniption if such a thing were suggested.

I write all this because I want to discuss some of the reasons why churches (of any denomination or faith tradition) choose the names they do. I think there is something to a name. Many shipmates are part of churches that have existed for hundreds of years (I have two; the older is a mere 130 years young), and these churches are quite well known in their community by their name. Other churches are being planted, however, and so someone, somewhere is giving some thought to what they should be named.

There are also churches which change names on occasion. The Bible talks about God changing names at times. Abram becomes Abraham, Sarai becomes Sarah, Jacob becomes Israel, and Simon becomes Peter. Sometimes I think God leads churches to change their name. I hear about it a lot more in Pentecostal and non-denom circles than anywhere else, but it's not inconceivable elsewhere. There are situations where a church's reputation in a community is tarnished or the membership is so entrenched in the way things have always been that a completely new name and vision is needed.

I also think a name tells prospective visitors a bit about what to expect; a place called The Orchard probably isn't going to be Anglo-Catholic, and a place called St. Clements or St. Mary Magdalene probably isn't going to be happy-clappy low church. A name like Hamby's Chapel makes me expect a small church (probably out in the country) where everyone is related, while St. Matthias is probably an urban or suburban Anglican church.

I have many questions on the subject, but the biggest one is this: If you were part of a new church plant or an existing church that was changing its name, what would you think to name it, and why?

And secondary to that, is a church name just an easy identifier to you, or should a name communicate what that church's perceived mission or niche in that community might be?

___________
*Strangely, I've not come across any named for Thomas Coke, or Philip Otterbein. The closest I've seen is Cokesbury, which is the denominational book and resource store.

[ 10. January 2015, 16:48: Message edited by: seasick ]

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

It's not uncommon for low/charismatic Anglican churches in the CoE to be in more traditionally-named churches, eg St Barnabas' or St Wilfrid's - the one in my town is.

Posted by Ann (# 94) on :

Funny you should start this thread - our glorious leader's thought have been running along the same lines!

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
It's not uncommon for low/charismatic Anglican churches in the CoE to be in more traditionally-named churches, eg St Barnabas' or St Wilfrid's - the one in my town is.

How old are said churches, though? If they're over fifty years old then I can see why the name might not "match" the worship done there.

With any generalization there are bound to be many exceptions. I'm sure there are plenty of examples going both ways. The important thing is the feeling such a name imparts -- a very subjective and individual feeling, I think. So really I only mention it in passing.

[ 05. May 2014, 22:47: Message edited by: Barefoot Friar ]

Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :

In a city which has hosted a raft of Anglican liturgical changes and challenges over the past 220 odd years, churches have always been dedicated to one saint or another - St Andrew's Cathedral, Christ Church St Laurence, etc. Since the late 1900s, especially during the reign of Pontifex Jensen, the trend has been to name new churches after the suburb they have been located: Green Pastures Anglican Church. Even older churches have gone more 'hip' by dropping their traditional dedications.

When our new communities were established we wanted to ensure that our (modern) Anglo-Catholic nature was manifest, resulting in the establishment of The Anglican Communities of Our Lady as the umbrella organisation, under which there is the Community of our Lady of Advent, of the Rocks, of the Valley, and of the Mystic Rose. In the last three there is a linking of our patroness with the locality, aiding identification of locals rather than some ubiquitous term with which no-one readily identifies.

[ 05. May 2014, 23:50: Message edited by: Emendator Liturgia ]

Posted by Hooker's Trick (# 89) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
The last section is most similar to the Episcopal and Catholic churches I've come across, though I cannot think of any Methodist churches named for extra-Biblical saints such as Ignatius, Francis, or Augustine.

And yet, St Francis UMC.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

Out here I'd want to use the name of one of the local saints, maybe St. Baithen or St. Comgall, who were abbots of the monastery here in St. Columba's time.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
... When our new communities were established we wanted to ensure that our (modern) Anglo-Catholic nature was manifest, resulting in the establishment of The Anglican Communities of Our Lady as the umbrella organisation, under which there is the Community of our Lady of Advent, of the Rocks, of the Valley, and of the Mystic Rose. In the last three there is a linking of our patroness with the locality, aiding identification of locals rather than some ubiquitous term with which no-one readily identifies.

You mean there's a suburb of Sydney called Mystic Rose? I like the idea of buses and trains going there.

Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
You mean there's a suburb of Sydney called Mystic Rose? I like the idea of buses and trains going there.

Well, they would certainly smell nice and fresh all of the time, unlike other trains or buses with their mass of sweating humanity!

Unfortunately there is a much more simpler, if less picturesque explanation: this Community is situation in Rose Bay, and the person who asked us to initiate the community has a particular dedication to the medieval name of Our Lady, the Mystic Rose.

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

If I were considering a new church name for the situation in which I find myself, I would be drawn to a couple different possibilities. One is St. Stephen's. Stephen was the first deacon and was passionate about both service and evangelism. I am trying to lead the churches I have now into that, and I think such a name would be a reminder. It would also be very unique, so it would stand out, especially in this community.

I have thought about St. Barnabas', because his name means "son of encouragement". He sold all his goods and gave the money to the church, and then he accompanied St. Paul on his journey. He was eventually martyred.

I have also thought about something like Good Shepherd or Christ the King, which emphasize aspects of Christ.

Now, I'm realistic enough to know that no matter what name is on the sign out front, the church is to be the body of Christ, teaching what Christ taught and doing what Christ did. We need to be faithful disciples even if our church is named Helicopter of Christ. I know that sometimes names don't matter much. But sometimes they matter a lot, particularly in the first years of a new church plant or in the midst of a major transition of vision and purpose for an existing congregation.

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
When our new communities were established we wanted to ensure that our (modern) Anglo-Catholic nature was manifest, resulting in the establishment of The Anglican Communities of Our Lady as the umbrella organisation, under which there is the Community of our Lady of Advent, of the Rocks, of the Valley, and of the Mystic Rose. In the last three there is a linking of our patroness with the locality, aiding identification of locals rather than some ubiquitous term with which no-one readily identifies.

I like this. It's unique to each spot, yet obviously connected to the whole.

Posted by WearyPilgrim (# 14593) on :

The Episcopalians on our nearby island here in Maine formed a new parish several years ago which they appropriately named The Church of St. Brendan the Navigator.

Quite lovely, I think.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

The one thing I don't care for (if I were to choose,anyhow) is a church name that makes extraordinary claims to awesomeness. So things like Power House, Inspiration, Joy and Peace, or what have you. They seem to be making promises that you just know are going to get mocked later on. I'd rather name a church something low key and traditional so we don't sound full of ourselves.
[Hot and Hormonal]

Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar: It is unique to each spot, yet obviously connected to the whole.

Thanks BF - the whole concept came to us rather quickly, which I am more than willing to attribute to guidance of the Spirit: setting up new ecclesial bodies within an existing diocesan structure is something of a challenge, but we try our very hardest to ensure that what we do is complimentary rather than opposed to the established diocese.

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ann:
Funny you should start this thread - our glorious leader's thought have been running along the same lines!

Here are a couple pretty good ones from my neck of the woods: Apostolic Bible Church of Jesus Christ (just south of Seattle) and Church of God, Zillah. The latter is in the town of Zillah in Eastern Washington, and at least for a while they had a statue of Godzilla next to the church. It was certainly attention-getting.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

How.Awesome.Is.That.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

As an RC, if I were naming churches, absent pastoral responses to requests for specific names, I would rotate among four classes of names:

---titles for Our Lord and mysteries directly pertaining to Him (Christ the King, Holy Redeemer, Sacred Heart, Good Shepherd, along with Epiphany, Incarnation, Resurrection, Divine Mercy, etc.)
----titles for Our Lady and mysteries directly pertaining to her (St. Mary, Queen of Heaven, Our Lady of ______, Holy Rosary, Immaculate Conception, Assumption, etc.)
----titles of saints of scripture (apostles, evangelists, St. Joseph, St. Mary Magdalene, St. St. Stephen, St. Joseph of Arimathea, etc.)
----saints of history (rotating between the patristic, medieval, counter-reformation and modern areas)

Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :

With the older churches (small c), it's often just a case of tradition. The church was named as such a long time ago and woe betide anyone who dares to suggest an alternative. Though I tend to potter around the charismatic end of the spectrum, I have yet to find any church that doesn't put a lot of thought into its name, even if the final result may sound generic. For example, I have been to a few "X Community Church" where X is the name of the place.

One of the more interesting names I have come across is The People's Church, Banbury. It puts the emphasis on the people rather than on God or any particular individual or tradition. Some might object to that, but I think it's quite nice, particularly with their motto: "No perfect people allowed"

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Call me old fashioned, but churches dedicated to saints were thus because they sought that particular saint to pray for them.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

The impression I get is that saints' names would have been chosen in order to associate the UMC with the Protestant mainstream rather than with rough sects whose church names lacked gravitas or pedigree. Whether 'St. Peter's' or 'Beulah' was chosen would have depended on the relevant class and social issues in a church's early history.

In the UK, Methodist churches are usually just named after where they are; a road or an area. Sometimes the names are a bit more creative or pious-sounding, but that's not the norm.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
One of the more interesting names I have come across is The People's Church, Banbury. It puts the emphasis on the people rather than on God or any particular individual or tradition. Some might object to that, but I think it's quite nice, particularly with their motto: "No perfect people allowed"

Darn! I'll be sure not to go there if I'm ever in Banbury.
[Biased]

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

Even Catholic Churches get a new dedication sometimes: My favourite example is St. James Cathedral in Montreal.

In 1955, at the request of the-then archbishop,Paul-Emile Leger, and with the agreement of the Vatican, the dedication was changed to Marie, Reine du Monde et St Jacques. (Mary Queen of the World and St James) It is commonly known as Mary Queen of the World, and St James is all but forgotten.

Posted by Triple Tiara (# 9556) on :

Similarly PeteC I like the example of Arundel Cathedral: it was originally dedicated to Our Lady and St Philip Neri, but after the canonisation of St Philip Howard in 1971, it became Our Lady and St Philip Howard. Quite to be expected really, since it was built by a Duke of Norfolk and stands next to Arundel Castle. Having a new saint in the family was an obvious cause to change the dedication!

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
And secondary to that, is a church name just an easy identifier to you, or should a name communicate what that church's perceived mission or niche in that community might be?

Lutheran (and probably Methodist) churches have gone through naming phases (no particular order):

1. Parish/municipality names (Miami Lutheran Church)
2. Saintly names (St. Martini)
3. Virtuous names (Peace Lutheran)
4. Blank-of-blank names (Prince of Peace Lutheran)
5. Promissory names (Abundant Life Lutheran)
6. Historical names (Wittenberg Lutheran)
7. Establishment or copycat names (First Lutheran)

More recent phases toy with the word "church" or the word "Lutheran," for instance: Community Church of Joy, or less commonly, Faith Lutheran Community.

I do think the name means something, but I think it means more about when then church was started than what the church stands for. People use them as simple designations, and rarely think about what the names mean.

ETA: I think this holds true for Protestants.

[ 07. May 2014, 02:11: Message edited by: Olaf ]

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

With Episcopal churches closing, merging, etc., it has made for some interesting names. When Christ Church in one town merged with the Church of the Redeemer in the next town over, it easily became the Church of Christ the Redeemer. But others don't work as well, e.g. Church of St. Matthew and the Resurrection, Church of the Holy Trinity and Saint Margaret, etc.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
In the UK, Methodist churches are usually just named after where they are; a road or an area.

Where I live seems like every Methodist church is named First United Methodist Church. (which suggests there ought to be a second united methodist church sometimes?) So you have to add the town name if you want to specify the church.

Houston has a huge First Baptist and a huge Second Baptist. There's also a Third Baptist.

The non-denominationals get more interesting names. Celebration, Riverside (referring to the metaphysical river), Abundant Life, Church without Walls, Fellowship of Love, Encourager

I just learned there's a St Julian of Norwich Episcopal church named that because one of the people founding it (in 2009, in a fast growing area) was told in a dream to name it that.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Houston has a huge First Baptist and a huge Second Baptist. There's also a Third Baptist.

It would be interesting to find out if there are places that have a "Second" or "Third" Church, but not a "First" Church, because it closed.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Somewhere on t'intertubes there's a picture of a place called "The Ram in the Bush."

Fnarr fnarr arf arf kersnipp kersnipp hyuck hyuck etc.

Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :

Some of the more interesting names stem from the African Pentecostal churches one finds in abundance in south London. One of my favourites (though I have yet to set foot inside the door) is Beneficial Veracious Christ Church.

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
I do think the name means something, but I think it means more about when then church was started than what the church stands for. People use them as simple designations, and rarely think about what the names mean.

It took me a second to realize your point here. To clarify, you are saying that churches are named by recent trend or fad more than meaning? That makes sense. I hadn't considered the trend/fad angle so much. Our language is very trendy ("reach out to..."? What happened to "contacted"?), and considering the churches I've seen planted in the past ten years or so that holds true with names as well.

So if you're right, "Greater Macedonia Miracle Kingdom and Revival Center" is as much or more a product of the time it was planted (mid-1980s I believe) than the hopes and dreams Dr. Lewis had for the new church.

Yet even in that, some thought went into the name. One planter with whom I was friends was naming his church "Mosaic". There's a famous Mosaic in Cali, and then a bunch of other not famous ones. He had a reason for naming it that (something about the way in a mosaic the individual pieces are unique yet come together to make a cohesive whole). So while it may have been the church-naming equivalent to Mikayla, it didn't come from a vacuum.

Posted by listener (# 15770) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
...It would be interesting to find out if there are places that have a "Second" or "Third" Church, but not a "First" Church, because it closed. [/QB]

Vancouver BC now has no First Church of Christ Scientist, but there is a Second Church...

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

Right let me see. There is a tradition in English Non-Conformity of naming churches after places. These may be specific such "London Street United Reformed Church" or "Cemetery Road Baptist Church". They might refer to the town or suburb they are in such as "Ashton on Mersey United Reformed Church" or "Buxton Methodist Church". This is the dominant form.

There are however exceptions and the first of these is the Biblical reference. This subdivides into two, the historically used one and the more modern Ecumenical ones. The historical use names like: Zion, Bethel, Providence and Ebenezer. The more modern ecumenical have names like Emmanuel, Trinity and Holy Family. Christ Church is ambiguous, it might be a modern ecumenical or it might mark a former Churches of Christ congregation.

Among Baptist and Congregationalist (or former Congregationalist members of the URC) you get memorial churches that are erected to the memory of a particular cleric. So you get "Dodderidge Memorial Church" or "Baxter Memorial Church". There are other less well known ones as well. Some of them do not have Memorial in the name. Methodists excel at this with "Wesley" appearing in many churches but Baptists are not immune.

However, Presbyterians did not particularly go for that. Rather they tended to name their churches after Scottish or Celtic Saints. There are therefore many "St Andrews" within the URC. We have a few St Columba, St Aidan and St Ninian as well.

Sometimes you get mergers where both names are preserved. So we have "Wilbraham St Ninians". However, you may also see "United" or "Union" in the name. Also sometimes you will see Placename Free Church.

Jengie

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

Sorry to double post but just come across this delightfully named URC "Whitefield Memorial Tabernacle. That will be its official name, it is known as Horfield URC.

Jengie

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:

quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
I do think the name means something, but I think it means more about when then church was started than what the church stands for. People use them as simple designations, and rarely think about what the names mean.
It took me a second to realize your point here. To clarify, you are saying that churches are named by recent trend or fad more than meaning? That makes sense. I hadn't considered the trend/fad angle so much. Our language is very trendy ("reach out to..."? What happened to "contacted"?), and considering the churches I've seen planted in the past ten years or so that holds true with names as well.

So if you're right, "Greater Macedonia Miracle Kingdom and Revival Center" is as much or more a product of the time it was planted (mid-1980s I believe) than the hopes and dreams Dr. Lewis had for the new church.

I understood Olaf to be saying that the name reflected the hopes and dreams of the people who established the church but did not necessarily have much resonance with the current congregation; for them/us it is just a name and they/we rarely think about its significance.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

A number of years ago I was involved with an Episcopal parish that was planning to merge* with another church, to become official on January 1st. "Church of the Holy Name" seemed appropriate because of the date, but some of us thought "Church of the Circumcision" would be equally appropriate and possibly unique.
[Snigger]

(*The merger never happened.)

[ 08. May 2014, 21:44: Message edited by: Pigwidgeon ]

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:

quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
I do think the name means something, but I think it means more about when then church was started than what the church stands for. People use them as simple designations, and rarely think about what the names mean.
It took me a second to realize your point here. To clarify, you are saying that churches are named by recent trend or fad more than meaning? That makes sense. I hadn't considered the trend/fad angle so much. Our language is very trendy ("reach out to..."? What happened to "contacted"?), and considering the churches I've seen planted in the past ten years or so that holds true with names as well.

So if you're right, "Greater Macedonia Miracle Kingdom and Revival Center" is as much or more a product of the time it was planted (mid-1980s I believe) than the hopes and dreams Dr. Lewis had for the new church.
I understood Olaf to be saying that the name reflected the hopes and dreams of the people who established the church but did not necessarily have much resonance with the current congregation; for them/us it is just a name and they/we rarely think about its significance.

Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you for the help articulating it! In Protestant places, it usually seems to be a visionary, perhaps the mission developer (and perhaps a very small cadre) who come up with the name.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

Frankly, what is, for some, an apparent dissonance of parish title with the parish's dominant occupants (this week) is more, to me, a sign of catholicity.

So the St. Patrick's down the road, populated almost entirely by Haitians these days forces us to draw lessons by the concurrence of a impassioned Romano-Briton sea-immigrant to Ireland with impassioned Afro-Caribbean sea-immigrants to mainland America.

At St. Paul's, Pilsen, in Chicago, the fundraising plaques demonstrate this clearly. Founded and funded by Germans, the names show the founders gave way to successive waves of Italians, Mexicans, and who-know-who's-next.

Would we cast off the name Paul for now Luguori and now Hurtado?

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

Numbered churches: "First Whatever" is pretty standard for mainline American Protestant denominations. "Second Whatever" is a little less so; in my experience AMPD's tend to go for neighborhood designations for names. However, DC has a "Sixth Presbyterian."

The Lutheran (ELCA) churches around here seem to be mostly a hodgepodge; there's the traditional (Trinity, Mt. Olivet, St. Pauls); a very few location based (Georgetown); some "attribute of God" names (Faith, Hope, Grace, Peace, Abiding Presence); and then a few (Augustana, Reformation, Luther Place) that are more Uniquely Lutheran.

And, of course, this being DC, there's no shortage of "National Memorial" or "National City" or "Capitol City" names.

ETA: personally, I'm a bit of a fan of picking a denomination- or area- specific name or patron; there are enough "First Whatevers," or "St. Paul's," perhaps not enough "Alexander Campbell Memorial" or "Our Lady of Ghisallo's"

[ 09. May 2014, 03:03: Message edited by: Ariston ]

Posted by cosmic dance (# 14025) on :

When travelling, my husband and I like to collect church names that appear to have little connection with anything overtly 'Christian' perhaps to appeal to those who are put off by traditional church names. But some names give no idea as to actual identity.
Hence - 'City Impact', perhaps a panel beating business. 'Link' - fencing supplies? 'Equippers' - maybe a hardware store. 'Lifeswitch' - electricians? Arise - your guess is as good as mine.

This part of the world is full of the 'non-church' church name.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cosmic dance:
Arise? your guess is as good as mine.

I'm afraid I can't go past the thought of a sexual dysfunction clinic.

Posted by Photo Geek (# 9757) on :

And then there's the R. E. Lee Memorial Church in Vriginia

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you for the help articulating it! In Protestant places, it usually seems to be a visionary, perhaps the mission developer (and perhaps a very small cadre) who come up with the name.

Ah, I understand.

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that the vast majority of people, churchgoers and non-churchgoers alike, think of a church name only in terms of "that is what that building and group of Christians is called" and not at all in a sense of "that name means they believe X and do Y". It doesn't matter if your church is named St. Zylvx or Adoration Restoration Church International, so long as there isn't another by a similar name nearby to cause confusion.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

... although in certain circles, the same name gets used over and over and OVER ad infinitum.

I have close ties with at least nine places named Concordia at this time, and I've probably forgotten some.

Posted by Corvo (# 15220) on :

I used to occasionally go to a church called 'Anytown Free Church' and remember visitors saying the word 'Free' made it sound open-minded and welcoming compared to others in the area which had 'religious' sounding names.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:

__________
*Strangely, I've not come across any named for Thomas Coke, or Philip Otterbein. The closest I've seen is Cokesbury, which is the denominational book and resource store.

When living in Louisvile, KY, I most days drove past New Coke UMC; AFAIK it's still there. (I have no idea if there is or was a predecessor or founder Coke UMC.) And it DEFINITELY pre-dates the 'New Coke' failed product from Coca-Cola!
[Snigger]

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Some unusual church names I've collected over the years:

Ascension and St. Agnes (TEC) in Washington, DC. (I always imagine Agnes shouting 'Wait for me, Lord!'
Holy Cross-Emmanuel-St. Bartholomew's (TEC merged congs. in Chicago). Later, I believe, changed to something less jaw-breaking.
Church of Jesus Christ Apostolic Signs Following - a small congregation in Eastern Kentucky, which practiced poisonous snake-handling and poison drinking. (I believe, but don't know, that this is one of a number of like-named and believing churches in that part of Appalachia.)

The following 2 were named for neighborhoods or streets, but they always provoked a giggle:
Country Club UMC (Kansas City, IIRC), and
Lover's Lane UMC (perhaps Tulsa, OK) (They could have advertised 'Weddings our specialty'
There are several TEC Church of the Heavenly Rest (including a notable one in NYC); I'm told that they were founded as memorials to those killed in the Civil War.

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

Lover's Lane UMC (perhaps Tulsa, OK) (They could have advertised 'Weddings our specialty'

Along the same line of thought, not too far from me is "St. Gabriel of the Sorrowful Mother." I have often thought how odd wedding invitations stating that the wedding is at that church would look. And pitied the mothers of the bride and groom having to react to the obvious jokes all day.

Posted by k-mann (# 8490) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
The church plants in the past fifteen years or so sound more like non-denoms, such as … Community Church Without Walls…

??? What is that even supposed to mean?

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:

quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you for the help articulating it! In Protestant places, it usually seems to be a visionary, perhaps the mission developer (and perhaps a very small cadre) who come up with the name.
Ah, I understand.

I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that the vast majority of people, churchgoers and non-churchgoers alike, think of a church name only in terms of "that is what that building and group of Christians is called" and not at all in a sense of "that name means they believe X and do Y". It doesn't matter if your church is named St. Zylvx or Adoration Restoration Church International, so long as there isn't another by a similar name nearby to cause confusion.

I will say that some church names—the ubiquitous St. Paul's, for instance—won't tell you much; however, others like "Victory" or "The Vineyard" or "The Potter's House" seem to indicate that you probably shouldn't expect smells & bells.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Numbered churches: "First Whatever" is pretty standard for mainline American Protestant denominations. "Second Whatever" is a little less so; in my experience AMPD's tend to go for neighborhood designations for names. However, DC has a "Sixth Presbyterian."

I'll see your DC's Sixth Presbyterian and raise you a Baltimore Seventh Baptist, North Avenue.

In fact, there is in Boston a Twelfth Baptist, Warren Street.

[ 10. May 2014, 03:44: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

The Methodist Church that The Salvation Army in Newcastle worships in is called Brunswick, named after and in support of Caroline of Brunswick.

Many Salvation Army Corps - for we are a corps of soldiers - are called a Citadel. Some are named after the area they are in or the Road. Some are called Congress Halls.

The Corps of which I am the commanding officer is called Newcastle City Temple.

In Perth in Australia they call themselves Perth Fortress. In Pasadena in the US they are Pasadena Tabernacle.

Sadly there is a trend to start calling themselves 'Community Churches'.
I don't like that.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

Interesting - the term 'community church' tends to be associated with 'non-denominational' charismatic evangelicals or Pentecostals who have decided that the term 'Pentecostal' carries unfortunate baggage and connotations for some people.

I've spoken to a number of Pentecostal ministers who don't use the term 'externally' as it were but only among their own flock. Not because they have a problem with the term itself, necessarily, but because they feel it can be a bit of a turn-off.

I can understand their reasoning, but an unfortunate side-effect, perhaps, is it can then sometimes look as if they are being under-hand. The liberal vicar here has been along to a few gatherings in recent years where he has complained afterwards that it should have been flagged up in advance as something the Pentecostals were doing. He hadn't known, until part way through, that these were Pentecostal sponsored or organised events.

He felt this was disingenuous. Incidentally, despite the difference in theology and approach he gets on very well with our local Penties and has a lot of respect for them.

It just shows how the whole naming thing is fraught with difficulty ...

[Eek!]

Meanwhile - as an aside - I happened to be in Southend with work recently, Mudfrog and stopped off at that Salvation Army 'settlement' at Hadleigh. Very impressive.

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

The salvation Army in the UK has now decided on a regimented (pun intended) corporate image. We must have the red shield logo on the from of the building which has The salvation Army inscribed within it. Next to the logo must be the words, using our example:

The Salvation Army
Church and Community Centre

On new buildings and on buildings after refurbishment, however old, there can only be those words - we are not allowed to put the name of the location or the name of the corps.
Looking at a photo of a building alone therefore you would not know where in the world it is.

I disagree with this ruling.
I guess that now the present communications secretary moves on into retirement, that stupid ruling will disappear.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Sadly there is a trend to start calling themselves 'Community Churches'.
I don't like that.

There's a church (supposedly C of E) here that calls itself a 'family centre'.

I wonder what single people make of that.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

Well, at least they know in advance what the appeal of that church is. No false pretences there. These little hints can be helpful.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

It'd in an area full of 'broken' and reconstituted families.

Although it functions well in the week as a community centre, the Sunday congregation is drawn from a wide ares outside the parish but few from within it.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

An excellent opportunity for another neighbourhood church to take up the slack, then! In reality, though, most churches are unprepared to engage with broken and reconstituted families.

Maybe we need churches with names like: 'The Redeemed Broken Family Church Centre' or 'The Broken and Healed Family Church of God'!

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
An excellent opportunity for another neighbourhood church to take up the slack, then! In reality, though, most churches are unprepared to engage with broken and reconstituted families.

Maybe we need churches with names like: 'The Redeemed Broken Family Church Centre' or 'The Broken and Healed Family Church of God'!

Amen to that.

Though in this part of town the other churches are even more fundamentalist.

And with barbed wire around their buildings.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

To be fair, there were probably more mainstream churches in the area long ago, but they couldn't attract and keep enough people to support themselves. Now they've closed, and the more 'fundamentalist' ones remain. They probably want to avoid the same fate, so they won't relax their rules, antagonise their current members or wear themselves out working on the stony ground that surrounds them.

It'll require a church plant that's 100% committed to the local community, while being funded by a wealthy church somewhere else. I propose: 'The So-and-So'sville Church of the Lost and Found'.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Not sure whether that was addressed to my post, but there were 4 churches in the area, mostly anglo catholic.

One has not only survived but flourished as a home for the Par Thoma church as well as C of E. They recognize each others' orders.

BUT the insensitive evo. which down the hill with dwindling numbers and influence will probably, with the cuts, take over, make a mess of it and close it and them.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

Yes, it was addressed to your post.

Why would the 'dwindling' church take over? Isn't it usually the more successful church that takes over from the less successful?

At the very least, the congregation and its work might move to a new site rather than being disbanded. Your 'con-evos' might pause for thought if they're told that closing a church tends to reduce the overall number of worshippers in an area, which is what studies show. It doesn't help them if this happens.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:

quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Numbered churches: "First Whatever" is pretty standard for mainline American Protestant denominations. "Second Whatever" is a little less so; in my experience AMPD's tend to go for neighborhood designations for names. However, DC has a "Sixth Presbyterian."
I'll see your DC's Sixth Presbyterian and raise you a Baltimore Seventh Baptist, North Avenue.

In fact, there is in Boston a Twelfth Baptist, Warren Street.

On Wacker Drive in Chicago can be found the Seventeenth Church of Christ, Scientist, one of Chicago's most captivating modern church exteriors, in my opinion. The interior can be seen in the choosing ceremony on the recent movie Divergent.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

Seventeenth, eh?

I know when to fold.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It'd in an area full of 'broken' and reconstituted families.

Although it functions well in the week as a community centre, the Sunday congregation is drawn from a wide ares outside the parish but few from within it.

Do people go to it? Then praise God instead of carping.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It'd in an area full of 'broken' and reconstituted families.

Although it functions well in the week as a community centre, the Sunday congregation is drawn from a wide ares outside the parish but few from within it.
Do people go to it? Then praise God instead of carping.

Average Sunday attendance = 53

Posted by Urfshyne (# 17834) on :

Mudfrog,

What is wrong with
The Salvation Army
Church and Community Centre?

I have met too many people, including a surprising number in other churches, that thought that the SA was a charity and knew nothing about it being a place of worship.

Surely it is in the interests of any Christian organisation to make it obvious, from the outside, what takes place in those premises.

I know that I have come across members of that organisation who did not like to use the term "church" as they considered themselves part of an army, but I have not encountered this in more recent times.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

On 6 Mile in Detroit, you find "The City of Hope Church (Vision 2000 and Beyond Inc.)". I guess their name is technically the bit before the parentheses, but the whole thing is painted on the building's exterior, without parentheses.

There are quite a few interesting church names in Detroit, actually. Once I'm back in town, I can start collecting them. Whenever I would drive by the Prayer Temple of Love Church I'd get the Sisters of Mercy song, Temple of Love in my head.

There's also Second Ebenezer Baptist Church. I don't think there's a First Ebenezer, but there might have been at one time.

One re-naming in Detroit was a Catholic church that is now, sadly, a mere ruin (literally): Martyrs of Uganda Catholic Church, which used to be St. Agnes' Church. If you google Martyrs of Uganda, Detroit, you'll see many sad but stunning images of its current state of abandonment. But about a decade ago, the faithful few (about a dozen, I think) would gather in a portion of the nave sectioned off with tarps to protect them from the elements (no heat in winter) and ceiling leaks.

My church, the Cathedral Church of St. Paul, was originally a parish church, St. Paul's. It merged with a Grace Church at some point long ago, but no one felt the need to keep Grace in the name. One of the side chapels is called Grace Chapel, and features the former Grace Church's altar and rose window. There's another Grace Church elsewhere in Detroit now, so I guess the name got recycled.

Another merger in Detroit resulted in what is now affectionately called "Matty Joe's," St. Matthew's and St. Joseph's Church. It's the diocese's obligatory super-high-church parish (where they use so much smoke you can't make out what the priest is doing at the altar - at least the time I visited).

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It'd in an area full of 'broken' and reconstituted families.

Although it functions well in the week as a community centre, the Sunday congregation is drawn from a wide ares outside the parish but few from within it.
Do people go to it? Then praise God instead of carping.
Average Sunday attendance = 53

According to the English Church Census of 2005 the average CofE congregation had 54 people, so 53 in 2014 isn't so bad.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

One more that seemed . just . wrong:

Jacob's Well (no other descriptor, IIRC).

From what I gather they are/were some sort of literalist fundamentalist group. I couldn't help but feel that they didn't read the gospel very carefully.

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Urfshyne:
Mudfrog,

What is wrong with
The Salvation Army
Church and Community Centre?

I have met too many people, including a surprising number in other churches, that thought that the SA was a charity and knew nothing about it being a place of worship.

Surely it is in the interests of any Christian organisation to make it obvious, from the outside, what takes place in those premises.

I know that I have come across members of that organisation who did not like to use the term "church" as they considered themselves part of an army, but I have not encountered this in more recent times.

Nothing at all - except we're not allowed to put, for example, Newcastle City Temple, or Blackpool Citadel, of Stockport Heaton Norris, or William Booth Memorial Halls. There should be nothing on the notice that gives the name of the particular corps or its location.

But on headed note paper we can have
Newcastle City Temple
Salvation Army
Church and Community Centre

But the Newcastle bit cannot be on the sign.

The only reason some have not liked to use the word 'church' is simply to get away from the ecclesiastical baggage that comes with it.

[ 11. May 2014, 21:37: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Seventeenth, eh?

I know when to fold.

If only the Church of Christ, Scientist were so prudent.

Posted by JeffTL (# 16722) on :

And not far from Seventeenth Church - well, about a mile - is the Fourth Presbyterian Church of Chicago, so named not because it was actually the fourth Presbyterian church in Chicago, but because when North and Westminster churches merged, First, Second, Third, and Fifth existed but not Fourth (presumably a congregation that had failed somewhere along the way). So they took the name to have a fresh start despite some people wanting to call it Northminster.

Between Seventeenth and Fourth, if you take the right route, you'll pass the Cathedral Church of Saint James, the oldest Episcopal parish in town, which was named for the prior parish back east of its first rector. Not far away are Ascension, a parish started by low-church refugees from St. James but now a very Anglo-Catholic establishment, and St. Chrysostom's, the only Episcopal church in Chicago that still has choral Morning Prayer in lieu of the eucharist on alternating Sundays.

St. James assumed the cathedral dignity following the fire loss of the Cathedral Church of Sts. Peter and Paul on the near West Side in the 1920s (with some years in between during which hopes of building a new cathedral persisted). Sts. Peter and Paul, in turn, was originally titled the Church of the Atonement before the bishop took it over. Another parish on the far north side took over the Atonement name, and so it happens that our "highest" parishes have the names of Atonement, Ascension, and St. Paul by the Lake, which aren't really indicative of churchmanship, and nobody would expect a Low Church parish named after St. John Chrysostom anywhere else.

Posted by seekingsister (# 17707) on :

There is a large and growing Nigeria-based Word of Faith church called Winners Chapel International. Members tend to introduce themselves to others as "I'm a winner, are you?" There are even bumper stickers.

On a more traditional note, my mother grew up attending an Anglican church called St. Saviour's. I was visiting her hometown and when we drove past it I asked, "Who on Earth is St. Saviour?" She said she had never thought about it. My best guess is that it's Jesus and should more accurately be "Holy Saviour." Thoughts?

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

Yes it is Holy Saviour, St Andrews has St Salvators but then St Andrews also has St Regulus which slightly translated is St Rule or Holy Rule/Law. Although there are different stories.

Jengie

[ 15. May 2014, 08:21: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

Norwich had a St. Crowche - derived from Sancti Crucis, so better translated as Holy Cross.

Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :

In England, if a United Reformed Church has a dedication (e.g. St. Paul's; St. Columba's; St. Andrew's), then it is a former Presbyterian church. On the other hand, if a URC church is simply named after the town or place in which it is situated, then it is a former Congregational church.

(Presbyterians and Congregationalists united in England in 1972 to form the United Reformed Church.)

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

In my town we have a Church of the Holy Sepulchre dating to the Crusades, which is often referred to as 'St Seps' so I suppose it still happens that holy = saint in church names.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
In England, if a United Reformed Church has a dedication (e.g. St. Paul's; St. Columba's; St. Andrew's), then it is a former Presbyterian church. On the other hand, if a URC church is simply named after the town or place in which it is situated, then it is a former Congregational church.

(Presbyterians and Congregationalists united in England in 1972 to form the United Reformed Church.)

Not quite see my earlier post for more details. There are former Presbyterians that use the placename convention such as Jesmond United Reformed Church or Aston Tirrold. Yes I am absolutely sure on both of these. What is little known is congregations within the Presbyterian Church of England come from both Church of Scotland and Free Church of Scotland tradition (as in prior to 1930 merger) as well as English Presbyterianism (well all six of them that did not go Congregational). I am pretty sure the Jesmond is of Free Church of Scotland Heritage (Heatons URC Manchester Presbyterian heritage is that as well, but it is a merged Cong and Presby, and I suspect the "Grosvenor" part of "Grosvenor St Aidans" is as well). Aston Tirrold is one of the few English Presbyterians. I suspect the saints were chose by the CofS heritage.

Jengie

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
There is a large and growing Nigeria-based Word of Faith church called Winners Chapel International. Members tend to introduce themselves to others as "I'm a winner, are you?" There are even bumper stickers.

On a more traditional note, my mother grew up attending an Anglican church called St. Saviour's. I was visiting her hometown and when we drove past it I asked, "Who on Earth is St. Saviour?" She said she had never thought about it. My best guess is that it's Jesus and should more accurately be "Holy Saviour." Thoughts?

"Saint" means "holy." I've been told that there are a number of St. Saviour's churches around, and that it was an older naming tradition (in England?). (Also that there are St. Cross churches?) Is that true, anyone know? It could be that whoever told me that was just guessing.

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:

quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
There is a large and growing Nigeria-based Word of Faith church called Winners Chapel International. Members tend to introduce themselves to others as "I'm a winner, are you?" There are even bumper stickers.

On a more traditional note, my mother grew up attending an Anglican church called St. Saviour's. I was visiting her hometown and when we drove past it I asked, "Who on Earth is St. Saviour?" She said she had never thought about it. My best guess is that it's Jesus and should more accurately be "Holy Saviour." Thoughts?
"Saint" means "holy." I've been told that there are a number of St. Saviour's churches around, and that it was an older naming tradition (in England?). (Also that there are St. Cross churches?) Is that true, anyone know? It could be that whoever told me that was just guessing.

There are quite a lot of St Saviour's churches in the UK. I think it was particularly popular as a dedication during the nineteenth century.

I'm not familiar with any church called St Cross, but "Holy Cross" is not unknown.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

There is a Saint Cross College at Oxford, and their site permits you to purchase Tshirts for teddy bears. Wikipedia infallibly informs us of half over a dozen churches, chapels, and colleges named Saint Cross. Of course, residents of Victoria BC will be cheered to learn that in the days of the fearless Bodega y Quadra, it was known as Santa Cruz.

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

The absolute best church name I have ever seen is Temperanceville United Church in Richmond Hill, Ontario.

Posted by seekingsister (# 17707) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
"Saint" means "holy." I've been told that there are a number of St. Saviour's churches around, and that it was an older naming tradition (in England?). (Also that there are St. Cross churches?) Is that true, anyone know? It could be that whoever told me that was just guessing.

In Latin and Romance languages, the words for "saint" and "holy" are the same. Hence "Santa Clara" for St. Claire and "Santa Fe" for Holy Faith in Spanish, for example.

But in English, "saint" means a person, specifically a saved Christian. So "St Saviour" and "St Cross" just don't sound right. Unless this distinct meaning of saint is a newer development in the English language.

I mentioned this again to my mom yesterday and she said "Oh you know they actually changed the name of the church to Our Saviour's about 10 years ago, but we all still use the old name out of habit." So I guess that was to resolve the issue of the slightly odd name.

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :

Saint Sauveur and Sainte Croix are fine in French,
which reminds me that the 'palais de la Sainte Croix' aka Palace of Holyroodhouse in Edinburgh is at the moment the residence of Her Majesty's
special representative (Lord High Commissioner) to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland.
This year,for those interested, it is the Earl of Wessex,the Prince Edward.

In German it is the same word for 'holy' and 'saint' - Heilige Theresia von Lisieux or Heiliger Johannes but you can also say Sankt Johann

The two separate words in English come from the hybrid nature of English taking many words from Germanic or Latin sources.

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
There are quite a lot of St Saviour's churches in the UK. I think it was particularly popular as a dedication during the nineteenth century.

I go to a St Saviour's church; we are celebrating the 150th anniversary of its dedication later in the summer. Our feast day is Christ the King, the Sunday before Advent.

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
There are quite a lot of St Saviour's churches in the UK. I think it was particularly popular as a dedication during the nineteenth century.
I go to a St Saviour's church; we are celebrating the 150th anniversary of its dedication later in the summer. Our feast day is Christ the King, the Sunday before Advent.

Interesting. Every other St Saviour's I've ever known celebrated Ascension as the feast of title.

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
There is a Saint Cross College at Oxford, and their site permits you to purchase Tshirts for teddy bears. Wikipedia infallibly informs us of half over a dozen churches, chapels, and colleges named Saint Cross. Of course, residents of Victoria BC will be cheered to learn that in the days of the fearless Bodega y Quadra, it was known as Santa Cruz.

There was also St Cross, Holywell, in Oxford until about 3 years ago, but it's been deconsecrated and is now a college archive for Balliol. Kenneth Grahame is buried in the churchyard.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

There's an outstanding St Saviour's Cathedral in OZ, at least once written up by the media as "St Xavier's"

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
There's an outstanding St Saviour's Cathedral in OZ, at least once written up by the media as "St Xavier's"

But "outstanding" is an understatement for this one. It's hard to think of an adjective which is sufficiently superlative.

Perhaps Banner Lady could let us know about the Patronal Festival there.

Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:

quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
In England, if a United Reformed Church has a dedication (e.g. St. Paul's; St. Columba's; St. Andrew's), then it is a former Presbyterian church. On the other hand, if a URC church is simply named after the town or place in which it is situated, then it is a former Congregational church.

(Presbyterians and Congregationalists united in England in 1972 to form the United Reformed Church.)
Not quite see my earlier post for more details. There are former Presbyterians that use the placename convention such as Jesmond United Reformed Church or Aston Tirrold. Yes I am absolutely sure on both of these. What is little known is congregations within the Presbyterian Church of England come from both Church of Scotland and Free Church of Scotland tradition (as in prior to 1930 merger) as well as English Presbyterianism (well all six of them that did not go Congregational). I am pretty sure the Jesmond is of Free Church of Scotland Heritage (Heatons URC Manchester Presbyterian heritage is that as well, but it is a merged Cong and Presby, and I suspect the "Grosvenor" part of "Grosvenor St Aidans" is as well). Aston Tirrold is one of the few English Presbyterians. I suspect the saints were chose by the CofS heritage.

Jengie

Fair enough; I could only speak for my home area, which I have known all my life. I know, therefore, which URC churches are formerly Congregational and which are formerly Presbyterian and I have noticed this dedication tendency here.

Obviously, I cannot speak for places I don't know. As in everything else, there is an exception to every rule.

Posted by Kaplan Corday (# 16119) on :

A friend of mine grew up in a church which was called, from its nineteeth century origins, The Free Breakfast Mission.

Posted by St. Stephen the Stoned (# 9841) on :

Here in Sheffield, Endcliffe Methodist Church has been renamed "Horizon", while the Methodist Church at Nether Green is now called "Beacon". Is this a national trend or just a local fad?

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

The Ragged Schools have long been replaced with state education but there are two churches which owe their origins to them and therefore are known as "Ragged Schools"

Jengie

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

The theological implications of naming a church are fascinating. One suspects the plethora of saints' names in mediaeval and throught to reformation churches were at least in part about garnering the favour and protection of th saint in question - the proliferation of apostolically names churches in the Anglican tradition in the post-Reformation era, and the popularity of Paul, probably reflect post-Reformation emphases on the theology of the saint in question (with a few Bedes and Oswalds for good measure). The Methodists hung on to Paul tenaciously because he tended to be rather simpatico with the emphases of the Wesleys ... in the mean time in the Roman Catholic tradition many non-apostolic saints proliferated, not least as a thumbing of noses to nasty protestant heretics: Saint Francis Xavier, Saint Theresa, Saint Heloise. Ooops. No. Not St Heloise. She was naughty.

Slowly a sort of puritan counter-objection to the notion of a "saint" emerges, so we get Suburb Baptist ... Town Church of Christ, Street Apostolic ...

In the age of capitalist-gone-crazy church and radical market forces rebadging is everything (though the Africans in Africa and Afro-American circles were way ahead on this with "Jesus Saviour of the Left Happy Ventricle of Love Church" et cetera) ... "shine" "arise" "pulse" "throb".

Okay not the last because the psycho-sexual hints must always be subconscious, always phallic never yonnic ... ironically never anything ostensibly religious either, because the nomenclature, like the architecture, must never look too goddy (or is it too churchy, but since when were the two radically separated?) if we're going to lure unsuspecting teens into an encounter with ...

I'll stick with my St John's ... buggers up patronal festivals though. I guess neither the Jesus Saviour of the Left Happy Ventricle of Love Church nor Throb have those.

[ 18. May 2014, 19:23: Message edited by: Zappa ]

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
There's an outstanding St Saviour's Cathedral in OZ, at least once written up by the media as "St Xavier's."

Bah on your link. We wants a picture.

Posted by KevinL (# 12481) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Seventeenth, eh?

I know when to fold.

http://www.28ccs.com/

28th Church of Christ, Scientist. Westwood neighborhood of Los Angeles (of UCLA fame).

*edited because accidentally posted w/just the quote and no additional material.

[ 19. May 2014, 07:14: Message edited by: KevinL ]

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by KevinL:

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Seventeenth, eh?

I know when to fold.
http://www.28ccs.com/

28th Church of Christ, Scientist. Westwood neighborhood of Los Angeles (of UCLA fame).

*edited because accidentally posted w/just the quote and no additional material.

Chuckle

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
There's an outstanding St Saviour's Cathedral in OZ, at least once written up by the media as "St Xavier's."
Bah on your link. We wants a picture.

Well did!

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Slowly a sort of puritan counter-objection to the notion of a "saint" emerges, so we get Suburb Baptist ... Town Church of Christ, Street Apostolic ...

Except you are wrong. As I posted earlier in URC there is a tradition which I take to be Puritan in origin (it fits with other naming traditions) of naming churches after Biblical places so you get "Zion", "Salem" and "Bethel" or places significant for worship so "Ebenezer" and "Tabernacle".

Jengie

Posted by Kaplan Corday (# 16119) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
a tradition which I take to be Puritan in origin (it fits with other naming traditions) of naming churches after Biblical places so you get "Zion", "Salem" and "Bethel" or places significant for worship so "Ebenezer" and "Tabernacle".

Jengie

And Carmel Welsh Presbyterian Church in Ballarat, Victoria, known to the scripturally illiterate as the Caramel Church.

Posted by Kaplan Corday (# 16119) on :

And in the same tradition, a number of Brethren churches have been designated (unofficially) as Adullam.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Slowly a sort of puritan counter-objection to the notion of a "saint" emerges, so we get Suburb Baptist ... Town Church of Christ, Street Apostolic ...
Except you are wrong. As I posted earlier in URC there is a tradition which I take to be Puritan in origin (it fits with other naming traditions) of naming churches after Biblical places so you get "Zion", "Salem" and "Bethel" or places significant for worship so "Ebenezer" and "Tabernacle".

Jengie

That, too. Not strong in the antipodes, though. Actually nothing Puritan survives long down here.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Actually nothing Puritan survives long down here.

Well, there's the Archdiocese of Sydney... [Biased]

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I think churches that hold on to their original geographical name, even when they've moved site, are quite interesting. In Birmingham, England there was a 'Cannon Street Baptist Church' that moved out of its city setting and followed its members into the suburbs. It's kept the name and is still going strong, but has added 'Memorial', perhaps to prevent confusion. I think most provincial churches that suffered from this demographic problem in the late Victorian and Edwardian eras simply had to close, so I'm not sure how widespread this phenomenon is.

It's also interesting how geographical denominational names lead to new adopted geographical identities around the world. For example, the Southern Baptists, the Moravians, and even the Anglicans, etc., were all named for a denomination born in a particular place, but which now has a global presence that may even dwarf the numbers of members in the original setting.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Actually nothing Puritan survives long down here.
Well, there's the Archdiocese of Sydney...

Ahem, we call the dioceses here, even if it is the diocese of an Archbishop.

The diocese bears out what Zappa said. The campaign launched by ++ Peter to have 10% (or whatever) of the population in bible-believing churches in 5 years totally failed; vast sums of money were lost in the GFC and there's no chance of making up the losses; and ++ Peter was not listened to seriously (neither was George Cardinal Pell over the other side of Hyde Park, but that's another story). The Rector of Bellevue Hill, a smart Sydney address, was laughed at when he refused to allow a chocolate wheel at the church fête, and laughed at again when he attacked a Justice of the High Court for being gay.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Enquiring minds need to know - just what is wrong (or un-Christian) with/about a chocolate wheel? [Confused]

Re naming of churches - we have a most fascinating selection of denominations and names within just a few hundred yards of each other in a certain part of Our Fair City:

Treasure House/House of Favour Ministries;
Mountain of Fire and Miracles Ministry;
Incorruptible Word Ministry;
The King's Church;
The Celestial Church of Christ (St. X Parish);
The Church of The Good Companions (Unitarian);

....and another 'Word' church, whose name I can't for the moment recall.......

The King's Church have a former Presbyterian building (nicely restored and kept), and the Unitarians have a delightful late 19thC chapel, built, I think, specifically for them, and used by a variety of liberal groups and meetings. The Celestians have a much-restored mediaeval hospital chapel, and the others use various former offices/plant hire shops!

Week of Prayer for Christian Unity? Ha!

Ian J.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Enquiring minds need to know - just what is wrong (or un-Christian) with/about a chocolate wheel?

I fear it is, or replicates, or something, a game of chance. Games of chance make the baby Calvin cry.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

PS ... you will find more about this matter of ecclesiantickle concern here

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

...The Church of The Good Companions...

Does the Minister give him/herself Priestl(e)y airs?

[ 22. May 2014, 19:28: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by Happy Pebble (# 2731) on :

My former Episcopal church home was the extraordinarily clumsily named Parish of the Holy Trinity and St. Anskar, like a corporate merger.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

Chocolate wheels are gambling, the work of Satan amongst us, etc. Or at least some people think so, and go about making fools of themselves and their Church.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Albertus....... [Killing me]

.....wish I'd thought of that one!

AFAIK, 'The Good Companions' (in this context) was a sort of mystical 'Order' set up by a Unitarian minister in days gone by. It included Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, and various other founders of faiths, but quite what happened to it, I know not.

I guess it's a unique dedication, though on passing the church recently, I couldn't see the nameboard - it may have been blown down/removed.

Ian J.

Posted by Vaticanchic (# 13869) on :

I wonder who is the most recent saint to have a dedication - perhaps Therese of Lisieux? Mind you, there will be memorial churches with more up-to-date titles.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
I wonder who is the most recent saint to have a dedication - perhaps Therese of Lisieux? Mind you, there will be memorial churches with more up-to-date titles.

I think that Saint John XXIII in Winnipeg might be the most recent saint to have a dedication.

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:

quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
I wonder who is the most recent saint to have a dedication - perhaps Therese of Lisieux? Mind you, there will be memorial churches with more up-to-date titles.
I think that Saint John XXIII in Winnipeg might be the most recent saint to have a dedication.

Or equally S. John Paul II...

Posted by Vaticanchic (# 13869) on :

Sounds to be so

Posted by Vaticanchic (# 13869) on :

Just recalled something I was considering a while back about a possible relationship between the particular charism - or perhaps characteristics - of a local church & the dedication. Often a chicken-and-egg thing, of course, but still of interest.

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

Once someone's beatified you can name a Church for them. I know of a few Bl. John XXIII churches that recently bought new signs.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
Just recalled something I was considering a while back about a possible relationship between the particular charism - or perhaps characteristics - of a local church & the dedication. Often a chicken-and-egg thing, of course, but still of interest.

I would love there to be a greater link between the dedication and what is going on in the parish but that would often require that the parishioners be told (or learn) something about their dedication. I once suggested to the rector of a certain church dedicated to S Lawrence that they raise funds through a barbecue and he looked puzzled. Looking at websites over the years, I saw that a few TEC churches do profiles of their name saints and sometimes parish groups or ministries link to this (e.g., S Luke for nurses and doctors).

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
...I once suggested to the rector of a certain church dedicated to S Lawrence that they raise funds through a barbecue...

Brilliant, if slightly tasteless!

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:

quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
...I once suggested to the rector of a certain church dedicated to S Lawrence that they raise funds through a barbecue...
Brilliant, if slightly tasteless!

Though not as tasteless as the S Stephen equivalent could be.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Yes- you could take advantage of the new laws in some of the western states- 'Come and get stoned at St Stephen's'...

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
Just recalled something I was considering a while back about a possible relationship between the particular charism - or perhaps characteristics - of a local church & the dedication. Often a chicken-and-egg thing, of course, but still of interest.

In the UK, to an extent....

If your CofE church is in an inner city back street, surrounded by terraced housing, and has a Black Letter Saint (TM) as a dedication, then 10:1 regardless of what it is now when it was built it was high as a kite....

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

As an addition, I think it works at that high level, but not really then reflecting the individual dedicatee so much.

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Seventeenth, eh?

I know when to fold.
If only the Church of Christ, Scientist were so prudent.

That's my parents' church you're talking about... I defected a very long time ago and became a contented presbyterian.

Around here two presbyterian churches, St Giles and St Andrew's, amalgamated recently to become the stunningly original Westside, to distinguish themselves from the other two presbyterian churches within a mile on the west side of the river, the clearly non-partisan Central and the fiercely traditional Knox's. (We are all in the same presbytery of The Presbyterian Church in Canada).

Posted by Edgeman (# 12867) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Happy Pebble:
My former Episcopal church home was the extraordinarily clumsily named Parish of the Holy Trinity and St. Anskar, like a corporate merger.

That's happened quite a bit here with parish mergers, hence the clumsily named St Agatha-St James (Not even so much as an "and" in there!)

The diocesan powers that be here seem to be fond of the hyphenated names for mergers, or completely changing the name of the parish entirely (Which a lot of the time doesn't work)

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Yes- you could take advantage of the new laws in some of the western states- 'Come and get stoned at St Stephen's'...

A St. Sebastian's church could have an archery contest and raise funds via the entry fees and/or charge admission to spectators.

Posted by Melangell (# 4023) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:

quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
On a more traditional note, my mother grew up attending an Anglican church called St. Saviour's. I was visiting her hometown and when we drove past it I asked, "Who on Earth is St. Saviour?" She said she had never thought about it. My best guess is that it's Jesus and should more accurately be "Holy Saviour." Thoughts?
"Saint" means "holy." I've been told that there are a number of St. Saviour's churches around, and that it was an older naming tradition (in England?). (Also that there are St. Cross churches?) Is that true, anyone know? It could be that whoever told me that was just guessing.
There are quite a lot of St Saviour's churches in the UK. I think it was particularly popular as a dedication during the nineteenth century.

I'm not familiar with any church called St Cross, but "Holy Cross" is not unknown.

The dedication of Southwark [Anglican] Cathedral is St Saviour and St Mary Overy/Overie*. Very briefly, the Priory of St Mary Overy became the Church of St Saviour after the Dissolution of the Monasteries. When the church became the cathedral of the new Diocese of Southwark in 1905, the double dedication was established. The Cathedral has two patronal festivals: the BVM in September and Christ the King in November.

* "over the river", as Southwark is on the south bank of the Thames, opposite the earlier settlement of London

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Melangell:
* "over the river", as Southwark is on the south bank of the Thames, opposite the earlier settlement of London

Here was I, thinking that it had something to do with the ovaries of the Mother of God.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Yes- a very unusual relic.

Posted by JeffTL (# 16722) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Edgeman:

quote:
Originally posted by Happy Pebble:
My former Episcopal church home was the extraordinarily clumsily named Parish of the Holy Trinity and St. Anskar, like a corporate merger.
That's happened quite a bit here with parish mergers, hence the clumsily named St Agatha-St James (Not even so much as an "and" in there!)

The diocesan powers that be here seem to be fond of the hyphenated names for mergers, or completely changing the name of the parish entirely (Which a lot of the time doesn't work)

Here we have the Church of St Paul & the Redeemer, a consolidation of St. Paul's in Kenwood and the Church of the Redeemer in Hyde Park. It actually works pretty well as far as combined titles go. If I had to take a wild stab at the feast of title it'd be the Conversion of Paul.

Posted by manfromcaerdeon (# 16672) on :

Doddington, with its ancient parish church nestling in the North Downs of Kent, has a dedication which is thought to be unique, and is known to date from at least 1467.It is dedicated to The Beheading of St John the Baptist.

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Edgeman:

quote:
Originally posted by Happy Pebble:
My former Episcopal church home was the extraordinarily clumsily named Parish of the Holy Trinity and St. Anskar, like a corporate merger.
That's happened quite a bit here with parish mergers, hence the clumsily named St Agatha-St James (Not even so much as an "and" in there!)

The diocesan powers that be here seem to be fond of the hyphenated names for mergers, or completely changing the name of the parish entirely (Which a lot of the time doesn't work)

It doesn't just follow form mergers however, many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication. Case in point - the nattily-titled Papal Archbasilica of the Most Holy Redeemer and St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist at the Lateran.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Chocolate wheels are gambling, the work of Satan amongst us, etc. Or at least some people think so, and go about making fools of themselves and their Church.

I suppose explaining that God's already decided where the wheel will land won't cut any ice with those people.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

Allow me to toss the merged parish of St. Jamonica into the ring.

In an idiotic scheme concocted by the diocesan apparatus to join St. Monica's with St. James, Capitol Hill, St. Jamonica's was the name supplied by those disapproving the merger.

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :

To add to Blessed John XXIII now St John XXIII I was in Rome for the canonisation.On the day before the canonisation I passed in front of the tomb of JP2 with a huge marble slab indicating Beatus Joannes Paulus. The day after the canonisation there was ,presumably, a new slab of marble with Sanctus Joannes Paulus.

Posted by Salicional (# 16461) on :

In some parts of the United States, Protestant churches are occasionally named for a benefactor in the congregation. For example, we have the 'Forrest Burdette Memorial UMC' in Hurricane, West Virginia; and the 'Bertha Strosacker Memorial Presbyterian Church' in Midland, Michigan.

There was also, up until a few years ago, the 'Sarah Hearn Memorial Presbyterian Church' of Erie, Pennsylvania, but they merged with another congregation and adopted the name 'New Hope'.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
It doesn't just follow form mergers however, many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication. Case in point - the nattily-titled Papal Archbasilica of the Most Holy Redeemer and St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist at the Lateran.

Just a technical correction here...As you may see from the Wikipedia source, listed at the right is the formal name of the archbasilica, in Latin. It is actually the Archbasilica of the Most Holy Savior, rather than Redeeemer. [Biased]

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by manfromcaerdeon:
Doddington, with its ancient parish church nestling in the North Downs of Kent, has a dedication which is thought to be unique, and is known to date from at least 1467.It is dedicated to The Beheading of St John the Baptist.

Unique perhaps in the CofE, but in Venice there is the church called 'San Zan Degolla' (spelling unsure). This in Venetian Italian translates as 'St John the Beheaded.' (Info taken from Jan Morris's 'Venice,' wherein is info about lots of other unusual Venetian church dedications.)

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Salicional:
In some parts of the United States, Protestant churches are occasionally named for a benefactor in the congregation. For example, we have the 'Forrest Burdette Memorial UMC' in Hurricane, West Virginia; and the 'Bertha Strosacker Memorial Presbyterian Church' in Midland, Michigan.

There was also, up until a few years ago, the 'Sarah Hearn Memorial Presbyterian Church' of Erie, Pennsylvania, but they merged with another congregation and adopted the name 'New Hope'.

Here's one named for the act of benefaction: Old Donation Episcopal Church in Virginia Beach, VA. A rector who left in 1776 (I wonder if he was a Tory!) donated land to the parish. It was known as Donation until I think the 1870's and then renamed Old Donation.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

Mesa, Arizona, has the Velda Rose United Methodist Church.

Actually, there are (or were at one time) a number of businesses in Mesa named after Velda Rose: a motel, drive-in movie, mineral bath, shopping center, golf course, etc.

But no one seems to remember who Velda Rose was. Speculation has it that she was a "hooker with a heart of gold" who atoned for her sins by becoming benefactress to the town.

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:

quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
It doesn't just follow form mergers however, many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication. Case in point - the nattily-titled Papal Archbasilica of the Most Holy Redeemer and St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist at the Lateran.
Just a technical correction here...As you may see from the Wikipedia source, listed at the right is the formal name of the archbasilica, in Latin. It is actually the Archbasilica of the Most Holy Savior, rather than Redeeemer.

Ah yes, my mistake!

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication.

I always thought that New York's Ss. Cyril and Methodius and St. Raphael made for strange bedfellows.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

quote:
Originally posted by manfromcaerdeon:
Doddington, with its ancient parish church nestling in the North Downs of Kent, has a dedication which is thought to be unique, and is known to date from at least 1467.It is dedicated to The Beheading of St John the Baptist.
Unique perhaps in the CofE, but in Venice there is the church called 'San Zan Degolla' (spelling unsure). This in Venetian Italian translates as 'St John the Beheaded.' (Info taken from Jan Morris's 'Venice,' wherein is info about lots of other unusual Venetian church dedications.)

San Giovanni Battista Decollato. There's also a church of that dedication in Rome, I think.

[ 19. June 2014, 15:32: Message edited by: Fr Weber ]

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

quote:
Originally posted by manfromcaerdeon:
Doddington, with its ancient parish church nestling in the North Downs of Kent, has a dedication which is thought to be unique, and is known to date from at least 1467.It is dedicated to The Beheading of St John the Baptist.
Unique perhaps in the CofE, but in Venice there is the church called 'San Zan Degolla' (spelling unsure). This in Venetian Italian translates as 'St John the Beheaded.' (Info taken from Jan Morris's 'Venice,' wherein is info about lots of other unusual Venetian church dedications.)
San Giovanni Battista Decollato. There's also a church of that dedication in Rome, I think.

I would still have to concede uniqueness to the church in Duddington. A church dedicated to St. John the Beheaded isn't quite the same as one dedicated to the Beheading of St. John the Baptist. One refers to a person, the other to an event.

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:

quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
It doesn't just follow form mergers however, many churches can have compounded or otherwise complex dedication. Case in point - the nattily-titled Papal Archbasilica of the Most Holy Redeemer and St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist at the Lateran.
Just a technical correction here...As you may see from the Wikipedia source, listed at the right is the formal name of the archbasilica, in Latin. It is actually the Archbasilica of the Most Holy Savior, rather than Redeeemer.

Thinking about it, I was probably getting confused by thinking about another Christ the Redeemer for some reason! [Biased]

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