Ship of Fools: Circus: Crowd Sourced Chess

Thread: Circus: Crowd Sourced Chess Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=001317

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

This thread is for the purpose of playing and discussing a communal game of Chess.

Notation

We are using the rank and file identifications shown in the link. We are not using standard PNG notation, instead we are using a slightly expanded form to encourage more shippies to participate.

Moves will be posted in the following format:

quote:

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to e5
2. White - Pawn to f3: Black - Pawn to f6

The move you are making in the post, is in bold. After the tenth pair of moves is made, the next post will start with a gamestate link to the previous post with ten rounds in, and then proceed with round 11 - thus later posts will look like this:

quote:

Gamestate

11. White - King Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to a1 taking Rook

Thread Etiquette

Anyone can post a move
You can chose to post moves for only one colour - but you can change between colours if you like.
Please don't post two consecutive moves - i.e. do not post a move by one side and its response by the other.
We would prefer that no more than three moves for one colour are made by the same poster before another person posts a move for that colour.
If no one posts a move for 24 hours, guidance on consecutive posts is trumped by the need for momentum and anyone may post the next move.
Good natured discussion and analysis of the ongoing game is encouraged.

People may find this site helpful to follow the game, or you can always use an actual chess set ...

[ 24. November 2016, 14:31: Message edited by: Ariston ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Thank you Doublethink.

So, as a complete surprise, I'm going to open with

1. White - Pawn to d4

[ETA formatting, DT, Circus Host]

[ 11. April 2016, 17:27: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

This is going to be interesting.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Symmetry is so boring [Cool]

....

[ 11. April 2016, 16:11: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn c4

Tchigorin Defence

[ETA formatting, DT, Circus Host]

[ 11. April 2016, 17:29: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5

[ETA formatting, DT, Circus Host]

[ 11. April 2016, 17:30: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3

(What can I say, I like symmetry [Smile]

)

This is the board.

[ETA formatting, DT, Circus Host]

[ 11. April 2016, 17:32: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6

I like horses [Big Grin]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I've been playing chess for 60 years and I've never played the Tchigorin Defence or against it. Like the trial game, we're in uncharted waters, for me at least, by move 3!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Neither have I. My hopes for something simple were messed up in the first move already [Smile]

Like I said, this will be interesting. Looking forward to it.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

DT goes off to google Tchigorin defense, which she has never heard of.

[ 11. April 2016, 17:42: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

(DT, you editted a couple of posts for formatting. I assume you want us to use a dash after the colour. I'll take that into account.)

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn x d5 taking pawn

[ETA formattng, please include previous moves and round numbers in your post - thx, DT, Circus Host]

[ 11. April 2016, 20:38: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5; Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4

[ETA formatting, DT, Circus Host]

[ 11. April 2016, 20:41: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Sorry to be so anal about the formatting, but I think when we are effectively typing long lines of code uniformity will make it much easier to follow. Particularly in any situation where we have to disambiguate or change a previous move due to a typo or misunderstanding.

Doublethink
Circus Host

[ 11. April 2016, 20:46: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

[I'd have made that same move, DT, FWIW]

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5; Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3

[I might suggest we follow the pattern of (4) not (5) and don't write the color of a target piece as it'll never be in doubt and that makes it easier to scan quickly and see each color written just once in each line.]

[ 11. April 2016, 20:58: Message edited by: Adam. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Fair point, I can go with that. (I have no idea why your last move is not bolded, as your code looks right.)

OIC - we were both looking at your post code at the same time.

[ 11. April 2016, 21:01: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Adam.: don't write the color of a target piece as it'll never be in doubt

I want to take the purple piece! [Smile]

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

I looked up the 1889 World Championship Steinitz against Tchigorin. They played 17 games, with only one draw ! That's a lot different from what happens these days.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Current board (I think I want to stick with White for a while; I'll try to chip in later.)

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3

[mobilizing a little more of our arsenal]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I really don't like the Black position, even after just a few moves. Looks like I may have boobed on Black's move 2!

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4

[I definitely like W better here too, but there's a lot more intrigue left in this position for both sides, I suspect.]

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to H5

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to h5
9. White - King Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4

[I think this is called flying a kite]

[ 12. April 2016, 15:19: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Question on the rules:

quote:
You can chose to post moves for only one colour - but you can change between colours if you like.

This seems rather contradictory. I see Doublethink has made moves for both sides in the same game. If this allowable, what does "You can chose to post moves for only one colour" mean? Are you saying we can't post two consecutive moves (one for black for white) at the same time?

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I was saying you don't have to pick a side, but you can if you want to.

Explicitly, we have asked you not post two moves in a row.

[ 12. April 2016, 17:03: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I want to be aggressive:

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to h5
9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4
10. White - Queen to b3

[Edit: I just updated the layout in accordance with DH's standards. I didn't change my move.]

[ 12. April 2016, 17:44: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

What else were you considering on move 2 Barnabas ? I just assumed you would play d5 as the only other move I found mentioned on the internet was e5 which was too obscure a variation to have its own wikipedia page.

I tried playing a few moves as white against the computer on Apronus to see what it would do, and after I played 6 b x c3, it went for Q d6 then Q g6 which put me under a bit of pressure.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Sorry, I forgot. This is the board.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to h5
9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4
10. White - Queen to b3: Black - Knight to a5.

[Thanks for the board diagrams!]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to h5
9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4
10. White - Queen to b3: Black - Knight to a5.
11. White - Bishop to f7 taking pawn, check

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to h5
9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4
10. White - Queen to b3: Black - Knight to a5.
11. White - Bishop to f7 taking pawn, check: King to f8

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to h5
9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4
10. White - Queen to b3: Black - Knight to a5.
11. White - Bishop to f7 taking pawn, check: Black - King to f8

Sorry for the double post - I broke the format guidelines.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I think Barnabas cross posted, this is where we are right now:

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to h5
9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4
10. White - Queen to b3: Black - Knight to a5.
11. White - Bishop to f7 taking pawn, check: Black: King to f8
12. White - Queen to a4

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Even sorrier for the xpost!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: Even sorrier for the xpost!

No worries [Smile]

I think I've used up my three moves. Once again, this is the board.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

(This position looks a bit like these scenes from a Western, where suddenly everyone is pointing a gun at someone [Smile]

)

[ 12. April 2016, 19:11: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

1. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Knight to c6
2. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Knight to f6
4. White - Pawn takes Pawn on d5: Black - Knight takes Pawn on d5
5. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Knight to c3 taking White Knight
6. White - Pawn takes Knight on c3: Black - Pawn to g6
7. White - Knight to f3: Black - Bishop to g7
8. White - Bishop to c4: Black - pawn to h5
9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4
10. White - Queen to b3: Black - Knight to a5.
11. White - Bishop to f7 taking pawn, check: Black - King to f8
12. White - Queen to a4: Black - Knight to c6

This feels better than messing with the queenside pawns ...

[ 12. April 2016, 20:26: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

(A bit late, but better late than never)

13. White - Bishop to b3:

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Doublethink.: This feels better than messing with the queenside pawns ...

Where you thinking about playing
12. … : Black - pawn to b6?
I think that would have been a bad move at this point.

(When I'm analysing moves instead of playing them, I put them in italics just to be sure.)

[ 12. April 2016, 20:51: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I think White's white-squared bishop is potentially lethal in this position and I would have played Black KxB myself. In fact I did but DT got in first! Switching to play White was a no-brainer!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: I think White's white-squared bishop is potentially lethal in this position and I would have played Black KxB myself.

Yeah, I think I would too.

Instead of moving that Bishop to where it is now, you could have taken the pawn at g6 for free, breaking down the Black king's barrier even more. But the bishop would have less of this dangerous mobility there than it does now. It's a trade-off.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight

I think going on the offensive here is black's best chance.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Doublethink.: 13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight

Heh, black has been threatening to do this for four moves now [Smile]

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I think White's white-squared bishop is potentially lethal in this position and I would have played Black KxB myself. In fact I did but DT got in first! Switching to play White was a no-brainer!

Wasn't the bishop protected by the Queen at that point?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Adam.: Wasn't the bishop protected by the Queen at that point?

I think Barnabas was referring to the situation after 12. Qa4. This was the board at that point (once again, cursive means analysis; this is not the actual board).

You can see that the white bishop was not protected by the queen. In fact, I had just been forced to move the queen by your excellent move 10. … Na5.

[ 13. April 2016, 05:35: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

LeRoc saved me a post. And on reflection, as he also suggested, it would probably have been better to take the g pawn with the Bishop rather than keep it on the long open diagonal by Bb3. There are some good middle game complications in the current position.

BTW for those who haven't found this out yet, the easiest way to set up a post for the next move is to use the quotes button on the previous post, then edit out the quotes and bold code as well as 'Originally posted by ...'. Then you just have to type in and embolden the next move you want to play.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: it would probably have been better to take the g pawn with the Bishop rather than keep it on the long open diagonal by Bb3.

I think you meant to say "it would have been better to take the g Bishop with the King rather than keep it on the long open diagonal by Bb3"?

I took a bit of a risk with white. After all, I allowed black to do the minor exchange, leaving the white King's pawns in an awkward position. In fact, this is what Doublethink is doing now in move 13.

I think it was advantageous though:

White ended up a pawn ahead; this pawn was taken from the heart of the black King's defence.
Black can't castle anymore.
If black did take the Bishop as you suggested here, the black King would have ended up very vulnerably at f7. It would have cost at least a tempo to bring it back to relative safety.
If black had been a bit careless, there had been a real danger of checkmate at some points. You never know

I thought it was worth the risk.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Nope, I meant that White's 13th move Bb3 might not have been the best, something you suggested yourself on the previous page. Like you, I think White is better, but in the crowd-sourcing spirit I'm going to step back for a few hours to see if another player wants simply to take the Bishop or try something else first.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: Nope, I meant that White's 13th move Bb3 might not have been the best, something you suggested yourself on the previous page.

Ah sorry, I see it now.

quote:
Barnabas62: I'm going to step back for a few hours to see if another player wants simply to take the Bishop or try something else first.

I'm unsure if there is much else white can do here, but I'll give it a couple of hours also.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Let me just give the current board.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Well, White can play Qc4 threatening mate on f7, but that is best met by Qe8. Then taking the Black Bishop is necessary. Not sure whether the White Queen is better on c4; it might be.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
BTW for those who haven't found this out yet, the easiest way to set up a post for the next move is to use the quotes button on the previous post, then edit out the quotes and bold code as well as 'Originally posted by ...'. Then you just have to type in and embolden the next move you want to play.

Still quite fiddly on a phone, though.

Last night, I was thinking that instead of 13: White - Bishop to b3 a far more aggressive move would have been to advance the white knight to f5, protecting the white square bishop and threatening a pincer movement on the king & queen with a later move to e6 (provided black's white square bishop could be either lured or scared away from that particular diagonal).

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I think you mean Ng5? It does look better.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I think you mean Ng5? It does look better.

Yes, I did mean that. Typo (which I just typed as tupo). [brick wall]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: Well, White can play Qc4 threatening mate on f7, but that is best met by Qe8. Then taking the Black Bishop is necessary. Not sure whether the White Queen is better on c4; it might be.

Yes, I'm mulling over that one too.

quote:
Barnabas62: I think you mean Ng5? It does look better.

True. Black could answer with 14. … Bh6 of course, but that Knight is defended. I would take the pawn at g6 after that. White would have avoided the minor exchange, and would have some nice pressure on the pawn at h5

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4:

Well, I'll bite on the bullet. It's not completely clear but I think the Queen move first is better. And no one else seemed inclined to move.

[ 13. April 2016, 11:38: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Queen to c4 it is! I think there's only one answer that black can give to that, but I'll wait a bit.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8

Seems the obvious move to defend against the attack along the diagonal at f7.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop

And that's my three in a row. I'll just kibbitz for the next 24 hours!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Current board. I'll see if I can come up with something for either black or white.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I had a look at Black. Its Queen and Rook are stuck because of the mate threat. The Knight can't go anywhere easily without losing at least a pawn, the Bishop has nowhere to go to. Er … options are either to move the Rook to d8 where it won't do much good, or do something with pawns?

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

How did Black get such an atrocious position, most especially around the King? Can playing Na5 saccing a pawn be any worse than the position as it currently stands?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Caissa: Can playing Na5 saccing a pawn be any worse than the position as it currently stands?

I've been playing around with Na5 a bit and it does seem to give Black a bit of breathing space. At least if White takes the pawn, the mate threat will be gone, if only for a moment. Shall I just do it?

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Black could always prpe it with Rc8.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Caissa: Black could always prpe it with Rc8.

True, but maybe I'd want White to take that pawn. Distract their Queen with a snack, so to say. I'm still looking at a couple of options.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
How did Black get such an atrocious position, most especially around the King?

I would identify 9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4 as as particularly poor move. It was too rushed. Personally, I'd have followed white's example and castled on the king's side, allowing the rook to cover an advance of the f pawn to break up white's dominance of the centre.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I think Barnabas was referring to the situation after 12. Qa4.

Gotcha. Now, I see.

Off to update my board and then see what to do next.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Sipech: I would identify 9. White - Castles (Kingside): Black - Bishop to g4 as as particularly poor move.

I admit this attack looked rather cool, but it seemed like an awful lot of trouble to go through, just to force a minor exchange and give White a worse pawn position.

What the heck, I can't back down now. My master plan for Black is:

Step 1: Follow Caissa's suggestion and move the Knight
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Black wins!!

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Pawn to a6

[Start creating some pawn-based pressure on White's attacking lines]

[ 13. April 2016, 15:17: Message edited by: Adam. ]

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Cross post. I think the first move posted should stand as official, so I italicized my post as a 'what might have been.'

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

And I cross-posted with your "Off to update my board and then see what to do next" post. It's good to see so many volunteers wanting to take Black at this point [Smile]

I agree that a6 would have been the safer (and smarter) move. But I'd just like to try this; it's not like Black has a lot to lose.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
And I cross-posted with your "Off to update my board and then see what to do next" post. It's good to see so many volunteers wanting to take Black at this point

It took me a while to think! Good thing we're not on the clock here...

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

OK, let's do it.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I'd have played 15. ....a6 for Black too, Adam.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to c3 taking Bishop

See? Black can do a fork!

Current board

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

Have you got a clever plan LeRoc ? I don't quite see how Black will avoid losing another pawn as well, either the b or the a.

I haven't mastered the part about needing to copy the previous moves yet so have left the moving to others.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
moonlitdoor: Have you got a clever plan LeRoc ? I don't quite see how Black will avoid losing another pawn as well, either the b or the a.

Not so clever, but I can keep both of those pawns.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to c3 taking Bishop

See? Black can do a fork!

Current board

Last move is Nb3 rather than Nc3, right?

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Nxb3, I mean.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Fuck, got it wrong again. Thank you.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8[/b]
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen:

I think Adam's move lets me back in. Besides, I'm intrigued by LeRoc's plan. I can see some cunning White responses ....

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

And my three turns are up! I'm sure someone come along to lead Black to victory any moment now.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen (check): Black - Rook takes Queen on c8

Rather an obvious move. Amended the code slightly to show that black was in check.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen (check): Black - Rook takes Queen on c8

(Sipech. Rather an obvious move. Amended the code slightly to show that black was in check.
B62. Quite right - sorry)

19. White - Rook to a7, taking Pawn:

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

They're falling into my trap. Gnagnagna …

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

He He! All unknowing - or deliberately? There is this thing called "the move after".

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

No, really there isn't a master plan. As I've said earlier, 15. … : a6 would have been better. I think the best Black could have hoped for after that move was a draw, after a rather long shuffling around with Rooks and Bishops.

Obviously, the current play has removed the mate threat at the cost of a pawn. I'm not sure whether exchanging Queens this way was the best option for White.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Thinking ahead a bit (not that black's situation is quite so dire yet) do we need some rules about offering draws and resigning?

I would propose that a shipmate can only offer to resign a side, offer a draw or accept a draw if they meet all of the three conditions:
1) they have made at least 3 moves for that side,
2) have the support of at least 2 other shipmates who have also made at least 3 moves for that side,
3) the resignation, offer or acceptance of a draw is not opposed by 2 or more other shipmates who have made 3 or more moves for that side.

In short, you've got to have contributed and have support, but you can be overruled if others reasonably think the game can be continued.

What do you think? Particurly, Doublethink, as you started the game.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I fully support Sipech's effort of finding a way to decide on a draw (although I would have preferred something that involved 19th Century pistols and blindfolds [Smile]

)

I'm not sure whether in the future we'll always have three people that made three moves for a particular side though.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

We might use the 24 hour rule. If a proposal is made (this side must win now, this side must lose now, I reckon a draw is a fair outcome) then unless it is countermanded by someone making a move within 24 hours, then the proposal is accepted. But that process may be speeded up by positive support on both sides, as suggested.

(And who fancies biting on the bullet and making a Black move?)

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I think I can play black again?

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen (check): Black - Rook takes Queen on c8
19. White - Rook to a7, taking Pawn: Black - Rook to c3, taking pawn

Current board

[Edited to remove some superfluous UBB tags; I didn't change my move]

[ 14. April 2016, 12:09: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Third and final in this sequence from me.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen (check): Black - Rook takes Queen on c8
19. White - Rook to a7, taking Pawn: Black - Rook to c3, taking pawn
20. White - Rook to b7, taking pawn:

And I reckon it's a winning endgame for White, either after 20 .....Rxp(f3) or 20 ....Bxp(d4)

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen (check): Black - Rook takes Queen on c8
19. White - Rook to a7, taking Pawn: Black - Rook to c3, taking pawn
20. White - Rook to b7 taking Pawn

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

X-post of the same move! If you want to take mine as official, even though later, allowing you to play another, that's fine with me.

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:

And I reckon it's a winning endgame for White, either after 20 .....Rxp(f3) or 20 ....Bxp(d4)

I certainly agree White is very well situated, but I'd like to see this play out some more if others are game. If for no other reason that that watching others' endgames can be very instructive.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

13. White - Bishop to b3: Black - Bishop to f3 taking Knight
14. White - Queen to c4: Black - Queen to e8
15. White - Pawn to f3, taking Bishop: Black - Knight to a5
16. White - Queen to c7, taking Pawn: Black - Knight to b3 taking Bishop
17. White - Pawn to b3, taking Knight: Black - Queen to c8
18. White - Queen to c8 taking Queen (check): Black - Rook takes Queen on c8
19. White - Rook to a7, taking Pawn: Black - Rook to c3, taking pawn
20. White - Rook to b7, taking pawn: Black - Bishop takes Pawn on d4

Could be a winning position for white, but they could screw it up. Black finally has some decent presence in the centre of the board now.

On to the end game we go...

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Sipech: Black finally has some decent presence in the centre of the board now.

Yes, that was the idea. Almost all of Black's pieces were blocked. Sure, we can move the pawns forward a bit, but White would have continued the threat on the King. That also has abated a bit now.

[ 14. April 2016, 12:53: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

It's still frustrating that black moved the king before castling, as that second rook is still as useful as a sledgehammer that's been kept in a locked cupboard and where you've lost the key.

[ 14. April 2016, 13:01: Message edited by: Sipech ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Sipech: It's still frustrating that black moved the king before castling, as that second rook is still as useful as a sledgehammer that's been kept in a locked cupboard and where you've lost the key.

That was my fault, when I was playing White [Hot and Hormonal]

Since the end game is starting, the Black King will be moving forward at some point to help the attack on those pawns, opening that door for the Rook.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Adam.

No, I think we should stick to precedent, since I moved first. Let's see how the crowd-sourced endgame goes. Might well be instructive!

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

(BTW, I think there is a clear winning sequence for White in this position [Big Grin]

. But I resisted the temptation ...)

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Hmm, maybe my time to switch back to White again [Smile]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

LeRoc

Do you see what I see?

[Somewhat unseasonal, but a temptation I couldn't resist!]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: LeRoc

Do you see what I see?

No I don't. I see some rather strong moves for White but no winning move. I'll keep with Black for a while to see if I have an answer to what White can come up with.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Oh I see! I'll explain later on.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I think I have an idea what you have in mind. Or at least what I'd have done if I were White. I also think it's possible for Black to defend against it.

But you're not allowed to move … [Biased]

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Well, if no-one can play this wonderful thing they can see for White, I'll do something pedestrian but, I think, productive.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4 : Black - Rook to c2

*Sigh of relief*

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Now the position has changed significantly, this is what I saw. White had a simplifying combination starting at move 21. In PGN form this is the sequence.

21 Bg2 Rc3 (forced to avoid material loss) 22 BxB RxB 23 Rb8ch Kg7 24 RxR KxR 25 Rb1. This leaves a rook and pawn endgame in which White is 2 pawns up with a passed pawn on the Queen side and a pawn majority on the King side. Rook and pawn endings can sometimes be defended when a pawn or even two pawns down, but this one looks like an easy win for White.

[ 14. April 2016, 22:15: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I think your sequence starts with Bb2. Having two Rooks and a Bishop on a diagonal was not aa very safe position for Black.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

You're right. A typo on the iPhone. Sorry, folks.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

I'm at my move limit for White, so just wanted to let you all know that I'll be traveling this weekend. Look forward to seeing how things pan out when I get back!

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Adam.

I see why you think that, but I made move 20 for White before you did, which means you've only made two consecutive moves. But travel safely!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

A bit surprisingly, I'm seeing some reasonably interesting stuff for Black. Waiting for White to move.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Agreed. Quite tactical at this point.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

LeRoc

[A PS on my simplifying move sequence starting Bb2 (not Bg2 as you correctly spotted).]

I made another writing error for move 25 which I just spotted; the White Rook moves to e1 not b1. Either move probably wins but Re1 intending Re3 to defend the pawn on b3 is the move I preferred after the simplifying combination. Seemed better to keep the Rook more central. Unfortunately I just wrote the wrong one down. Must take more care!

[ 17. April 2016, 00:41: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

If Le Roc would be so kind as to do an updated boardstate diagram with pieces in the places given from the corrected moves, it would be very helpful.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

This is where we are right now; it's White's turn.

[ 17. April 2016, 11:30: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Multiple threats from both sides on this stage. I'm a bit busy right know but I'm curious to see how this will pan out.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Yes, it's quite different to the technical Rook and Pawn endgame I was envisaging just a few moves ago. Fascinating position.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I do think the best option for White here is to accept the exchange.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop

Board

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I'm assuming you meant a Rook instead of a Bishop. I've edited the move accordingly.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1

At least all the effort Black did to mess up White's pawn structure finally paid off [Smile]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

No problem.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1

Board

[Edited to make my move bold; I didn't change it.]

[ 18. April 2016, 18:28: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8

I think that is the best way of avoiding the back rank mate. And that's my three in a row!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I think it was the only way to avoid the check-mate? Well, it was worth a try [Smile]

My three moves are up too.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

There was Ke8.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: There was Ke8.

Ah yes, I see. Of course, after this move White could have repeated the mate threat by 27. Ra1.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Which, of course, forces Rc8. I think White is winning in this position, but there are mutual backrank mate threats. It will be interesting to see what other members of the crowd make of this!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

To be honest, I'm a bit surprised how strong Black still is at this point. This is the board right now, it's White's turn. Curious to see how this will pan out.

[ 18. April 2016, 23:40: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8
27. White - Pawn to f5 taking Pawn

[ 19. April 2016, 07:17: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I am inclined to think we should play to mate or stalemate (x3 repeated moves I think it is), unless the game stalls for lack of participation. Simply because with multiple players, assumptions on how the endgame will play out are much less reliable when we're not in a one on one game.

If we were to go with proposed endings, I'd favour some variant of Barnabus62's suggestion.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

OK. But some positions are so lost that playing on is a waste of everyone's time. King and Queen, or Rook, or two Bishops, or Bishop and knight, versus lone King are well known in this category. Playing on as the lone King can only be in the hope that the stronger team will make a mistake and stalemate you, or repeat the position three times. That can happen in an "over the board" game, but not in this form, where folks have a long time to consider their next move.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8
27. White - Pawn to f5 taking Pawn: Black - Rook to g7

White should be able to push the material advantage (i.e. I don't think black can force a win, but let's see what those on the white team decide to do.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I have to agree with Barnabas here. Sometimes it's rather clear which side will win, but it may still take 40+ rather boring moves to get there. I don't think it's worth doing that on the odd chance that this player will make a mistake.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Because of the page break, I'm copying Sipech's last move for Black here, with an updated board.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8
27. White - Pawn to f5 taking Pawn: Black - Rook to g7

Current board. White to move.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I have the feeling that some slightly weak moves have been made in this phase, from both sides. I'm a bit unsure about the March of the White f Pawn that happened in moves 21–22. It didn't give much benefit to White, and it had the effect of freeing the Black Rook, which had been pretty much stuck in the corner until then. As White, I think I'd have preferred to have that Rook stay there.

That Rook, once freed, could be a powerful weapon for Black. White's pawn on f5 is difficult to defend, and the two Black Rooks together form a serious check or mate threat. Perhaps this might even have been enough to turn the tables for Black, which had been a bit behind.

But Black is offering this rather powerful Rook in exchange right now. I'm going to wait a bit, but if no-one else moves I'll accept this exchange on White's behalf.

Or do you see it differently?

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

I viewed the rightmost black rook as a slight threat (currently pinning the white king) but little more. Without the other rook to assist, it's more of a sentry than a soldier.

Whereas the white rook on row 7 is much more of a threat and the sooner that's gone, then black can move the other rook to defend against the passed pawn on the left hand side and/or attack the vulnerable white pawn on f5. That's why I moved to g7.

It would be interesting to see what happens if white declines the swap.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Sipech: It would be interesting to see what happens if white declines the swap.

Let's tango.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8
27. White - Pawn to f5 taking Pawn: Black - Rook to g7
28. White - Rook to b6

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8
27. White - Pawn to f5 taking Pawn: Black - Rook to g7
28. White - Rook to b6: Black - Rook to f7

I don't like either of Black's obvious defensive moves. Let's try this one.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Seems like nobody wants to win for White! I claim a win for Black!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Hah, I've been a bit busy. I may have some time tomorrow.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8
27. White - Pawn to f5 taking Pawn: Black - Rook to g7
28. White - Rook to b6: Black - Rook to f7
29. White - pawn to b4

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8
27. White - Pawn to f5 taking Pawn: Black - Rook to g7
28. White - Rook to b6: Black - Rook to f7
29. White - pawn to b4: Black - Rook to c2

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

That's your three in a row again!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

LOL, I hadn't counted.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

21. White - Pawn to f4: Black - Rook to c2
22. White - Pawn to f5: Black - Pawn to f5, taking pawn
23. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Bishop to f6
24. White - Bishop to f6 taking Bishop: Black - Rook to g8, check
25. White - King to h1: Black - pawn to f6, taking Bishop
26. White - Rook to d1: Black - Rook to c8
27. White - Pawn to f5 taking Pawn: Black - Rook to g7
28. White - Rook to b6: Black - Rook to f7
29. White - pawn to b4: Black - Rook to c2
30. White - King to g2: Black - King to g7

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And that's my three in a row, too.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Current board. White to move.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5

Poking my toe rather hesitantly in the waters...

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

(I'm in Africa right now with a rather intermittent internet connection. I won't be able to contribute much in the next couple of days.)

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

32. Rd8

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

33. Rbb8

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Please could you post moves in thread format outlined in the opening post.

Thanks

Doublethink
Circus Host

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Is that format being used because some individuals do not understand algebraic notation?
Yes, I can comply with your request if I make further. One would expect a little respect for the goddess of chess. [Biased]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Current board. Black to move.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Not sure what the best option for Black would be. Bring the Rook back into play? (For example to c7 or e7.) Or try to do something with the King and the h pawn?

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Is that format being used because some individuals do not understand algebraic notation?
Yes, I can comply with your request if I make further. One would expect a little respect for the goddess of chess.

*genuflects*

The aim is to be inclusive of less experienced chess fans, and ensure we keep track of the board state.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3

Surprisingly, there isn't a whole lot that White can actively do at this point. It had such an advantage halfway the game; where did that go?

Current board.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6

White's passed pawn is still the edge, but if black can avoid an exchange of rooks, then it may be hard to promote that pawn.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Sipech: White's passed pawn is still the edge, but if black can avoid an exchange of rooks, then it may be hard to promote that pawn.

Perhaps the basic problem is that White is violating the Tarrasch rule: White's Rook is on the wrong side of its passed pawn. Black may still get a draw out of this.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

White can force off one set of rooks but can black draw?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check

Let's force this Rook exchange.

Current board.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Should black self-mate? [Razz]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Caissa: Should black self-mate?

Black is free to do whatever it wants [Biased]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Sorry, not forced - Rg7 also prevented the mate.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I offer a draw from the Black side on the grounds that the game position as it stands seems to be driving other members of our small crowd away. Rook and pawn endgames can do that.

I quite like this link. "All Rook endings are drawn, except for those that aren't."

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I think that's fair. Do we fancy another ?

[ 06. May 2016, 22:44: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I still find the game interesting. White has an obvious advantage with the passed pawn. If this were a tournament, White would never accept a draw at this stage. On the other hand, it might be difficult for White to capitalise on this advantage, and Black has a draw to fight for.

As a player for White, I reject the draw.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Well, it's now close to a day and half since the last move, LeRoc. I suggest you make a move for White.

BTW, I think the position does have some interest, and White has winning prospects. But it's not clear yet whether Black must lose.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Like I said, my internet connection is rather intermittent, and it will stay this way for at least 1.5 weeks. I don't mind if the game is a bit slow, we can take our time. And it seems that we have 4–5 players at this point.

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check

Current board.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6

[ 07. May 2016, 11:24: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

So presumably, the question is whether a rook exchange is worth it ?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

It's White's decision whether to exchange Rooks or not. Currently, White is forcing this on Black. For White to back out of this now would be a bit silly, after all this trouble [Smile]

After the Rook exchange, White will end up with a Rook on the wrong side of its passed pawn. That's the whole problem.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

White still has some chance to promote the b pawn doesn't he ? If the pawn is on b7 and the white king on h4, black can only defend the h pawn with the king if the king is on the 6th rank, allowing white to move the rook away from b8 with check.

If black relies on the rook to defend the h pawn, white can advance the f pawn until it is in the way.

After an exchange of rooks I mean.

[ 07. May 2016, 18:38: Message edited by: moonlitdoor ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, moonlitdoor.

Let's exchange Rooks, and maybe we'll find out:

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6: Black - Rook to b5
38. White - Rook to g7 taking Rook, check

My strategy to promote the pawn would be to try to move the Rook behind it somehow; perhaps I'm a Tarrasch purist.

Current board.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

And I've made three in a row, but Black's next move is obviously forced, so someone else please make that move! The endgame favours White but Black may still have a few tricks available.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: And I've made three in a row, but Black's next move is obviously forced, so someone else please make that move!

The Black King *could* also go to f5 [Two face]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

And there was I, thinking you really wanted to see this endgame through to its end!

White can promote the b pawn to win the Black Rook by advancing the pawn to b7 and then checking the Black King with his Rook, provided that the Black King is on rank 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 or 1. So the Black King must remain on rank 7 so that it can capture a checking White Rook. This inhibits Black's ability to defend his Kingside pawns against an attack on them by the White King. So ... what do you think? Must Black finally lose?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I have another flight today, but I'd like to play Black a couple of moves from now.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, moonlitdoor.

Let's exchange Rooks, and maybe we'll find out:

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6: Black - Rook to b5
38. White - Rook to g7 taking Rook, check

My strategy to promote the pawn would be to try to move the Rook behind it somehow; perhaps I'm a Tarrasch purist.

Current board.

Re-posted, because of the page turn. Black to move. And if Black doesn't play King takes Rook on g7, I demand a recount!

[ 08. May 2016, 07:40: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6: Black - Rook to b5
38. White - Rook to g7 taking Rook, check: Black - King to g7, takes rook

There really was no other rational move.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

White is goin to have to move his remaining rook, losing either the rook or the pawn in the b rank, I would have thought. Doubt its wise to lose the rook.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

quote:

posted by Barnabas62
So the Black King must remain on rank 7 so that it can capture a checking White Rook. This inhibits Black's ability to defend his Kingside pawns against an attack on them by the White King. So ... what do you think? Must Black finally lose?

I think white can win the h pawn but it seems that black can block white's h pawn by putting his king on h7. If he just leaves it there and doesn't capture it, can white make any progress ? If white tries to bring the king across to the b pawn it can be driven away by checks.

So my other idea is to bring the white king across while the pawn is still on b6. If white can get the king to b7, he can then look to move the rook out and bring it to the 6th rank, then play king to c7 opening the way for the pawn to advance. If checked he can interpose his rook on c6. Does that work ?

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6: Black - Rook to b5
38. White - Rook to g7 taking Rook, check: Black - King to g7, takes Rook
39. White - Rook to b8

Again, I don't see any other move for White but to protect the b pawn from b8.

LeRoc clearly has some ideas about how to play the Black position, so I'm wondering if maybe it would be courteous to wait and give him a chance to try his hand?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: Again, I don't see any other move for White but to protect the b pawn from b8.

Exactly, and once again the Rook is on the wrong side [Smile]

quote:
Barnabas62: LeRoc clearly has some ideas about how to play the Black position, so I'm wondering if maybe it would be courteous to wait and give him a chance to try his hand?

Thank you. I don't really have a fixed plan for Black, I just think White's position is more complicated than it looks. (I'm still curious how that came to be.)

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6: Black - Rook to b5
38. White - Rook to g7 taking Rook, check: Black - King to g7, takes Rook
39. White - Rook to b8: Black - Rook to b2

My rook can do two things at once [Smile]

Current board.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6: Black - Rook to b5
38. White - Rook to g7 taking Rook, check: Black - King to g7, takes Rook
39. White - Rook to b8: Black - Rook to b2
40. White - Pawn to b7

(Threat 40. ....RxP? 41. Rg8-ch and then 41. Pb8=Queen ch)

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6: Black - Rook to b5
38. White - Rook to g7 taking Rook, check: Black - King to g7, takes Rook
39. White - Rook to b8: Black - Rook to b2
40. White - Pawn to b7: Black - King to g6

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

(Interesting factoid: http://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/2506/what-is-the-average-length-of-a-game-of-chess )

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gamestate - Moves 1-12

Moves 13-20

Moves 21-30

31. White - Pawn to b5: Black - Rook to c5
32. White - Rook to d8: Black - Rook to f5, taking pawn
33. White - Rook from b6 to b8: Black - Rook to g5, check
34. White - King to h3: Black - King to h6
35. White - Rook to h8, check: Black - King to g6
36. White - Rook from b8 to g8, check: Black - Rook to g7
37. White - Pawn to b6: Black - Rook to b5
38. White - Rook to g7 taking Rook, check: Black - King to g7, takes Rook
39. White - Rook to b8: Black - Rook to b2
40. White - Pawn to b7: Black - King to g6

White wins

41 White - Rook to g8, check followed by
42 White - Pawn to b8 and Queens.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

LeRoc may want your 40th move for Black to be rescinded, DT!

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

You see, I thought I was protecting the black king with that move.

Also, no takebacks, tis what it is.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

The queened pawn can be taken immediately anyway.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Yes, the Queen can be captured on b8 by the Black Rook But the Black Rook is then captured immediately by the White Rook on g8, leaving White a Rook ahead.

Black has no counterthreats (e.g. to queen a pawn), so it's all over.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

Now that the game is done, Barnabas, tell us what you were planning if Black just plays passively, moving the rook up and down the b file. I could not see how white can win it, which is why I thought of trying to get the king to b7.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

The Black King shouldn't have gone to row 6.

quote:
moonlitdoor: Now that the game is done, Barnabas, tell us what you were planning if Black just plays passively, moving the rook up and down the b file. I could not see how white can win it, which is why I thought of trying to get the king to b7.

Exactly. It wouldn't even have to be passive: the Black Rook could have done a lot of damage on the b line, giving multiple checks and attacking pawns, while the White Rook was stuck at b8.

[ 08. May 2016, 18:33: Message edited by: LeRoc ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: LeRoc may want your 40th move for Black to be rescinded, DT!

Heh yes

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I apologise for my lack of chess nous, do we want to end here and start a new game then ?

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

No problem at all, it was a fun game. I really like the three moves rule. It's just enough to do something, but won't let anyone dominate the game. And also yes, this crowd-sourcing gives some unexpected positions sometimes [Smile]

I'm all for starting a new game.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

NEW GAME

Your move folks !

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Having done that, a quick reply to moonlitdoor and LeRoc re a plan for White if Black went passive. I thought the position was probably drawn after it became R&3P v R&2P so I was just fiddling about. I've had look at the endgame after Black Rb4 and can see some benefit in White manoeuvring with King and Pawns to try to get a better position on the Kingside - and maybe win a pawn. But best Black defence ought to be able to hold White at bay.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

New Game

After more than 24 hours, I claim a win for White!

(Seriously folks, you've got a kazillion good options in response to e4.)

[ 09. May 2016, 21:47: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 Black - Pawn to c5

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Oh good. The Sicilian.

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

I'm going to pitch in for white this time

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

What is the Bishop doing on c4? If the Bishop is played on the 3rd move it is usually to b5. Is this an attempt to get out of book early?

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Bobby Fischer tried Bc4 a lot against the Sicilian. But not on move 3. I think we're in relatively uncharted waters but may transpose into better known variations.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

f1-b5 seemed needlessly aggressive. By curtailing the bishop's advance to f1-c4, white is establishing more of a presence in the centre, rather than looking for early exchanges at the sides.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I'm pretty sure Fischer used to play 3. d4 cxd 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 and then 6. Bc4 after d6, e6. g6 etc. It was his approach to the Open variations of the Sicilian, which normally involve White playing d4 on move 3. Playing Bc4 on move 3 may transpose or allow Black to try other different options.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Bump!

Current position, Black to play.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

I made the first 3 black moves so someone else is needed.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4 Black-Pawn c5 captures on d4.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4; Black-Pawn c5 captures on d4.
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn

[ 13. May 2016, 21:03: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6

Current board.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Queen to a5, check
7. White Bishop to d2

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

I think Bg5 was an error.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Hehe, I managed to move that Bishop back [Smile]

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Queen to a5, check
7. White Bishop to d2: Black - Queen to c5

Who has a presence in the centre now? [Cool]

Current board.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Does white have anything playable?

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Queen to a5, check
7. White - Bishop to d2: Black - Queen to c5
8. White - Knight to c6, takes Knight

Best of a bad lot I think.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I might have gone for 8. Nb5, threatening 9. Nc7+ with a fork.

My three moves for Black are up.

Current board.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I did look at Nb5 and reckoned that at best White loses two pieces for a Rook. The White Knight gets trapped at a8. I don't much like Nxc6 but found a few fiddles in some variations. Sipech is right, Bg5 was a mistake which looks as though it loses time and material.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: I did look at Nb5 and reckoned that at best White loses two pieces for a Rook.

I'm wondering which sequence you have in mind. After 8. Nb5, if Black wants to take those pieces I guess we're thinking 8. … Qxc4?? 9. Nc7+ Kd7 10. Nxa8 Qxe4+ with White ending up a point ahead. I would probably have played 8. … Nxe4 myself, threatening check-mate at f2. But I don't see a sequence leading to the exchange of two pieces for a Rook so quickly.

quote:
Barnabas62: I don't much like Nxc6 but found a few fiddles in some variations.

Looking forward to seeing those fiddles! [Smile]

quote:
Barnabas62: Sipech is right, Bg5 was a mistake which looks as though it loses time and material.

Interestingly, in this game as well as the one before it, attacking a Knight with a Bishop somewhere near the beginning hasn't been a strong move.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

On the two pieces for a Rook line, it does follow Qxb(c4). The check sequence 9. Nc7ch Kd8 (Kd7 is impossible) 10 NxR QxPch can be followed by 11. ....b6 and 12. .... Bb7, winning the Knight on a8 for a pawn and also putting Black's white-squared Bishop on that dangerous open diagonal. Something like that, anyway. Knight forks early in a game often lead to the Knight getting trapped on a8, and eventually lost.

There are lots of variations depending on the ways in which Black threatens mate, or which piece Black decides to recover. It gets quite tricky!

[ 17. May 2016, 14:49: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Barnabas62: (Kd7 is impossible)

Oops.

quote:
Barnabas62: Knight forks early in a game often lead to the Knight getting trapped on a8, and eventually lost.

Ah yes, it would be difficult to defend against that.

So, let us see what 8. Nxc6 brings: (Repeating because of the page break)

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Queen to a5, check
7. White - Bishop to d2: Black - Queen to c5
8. White - Knight to c6, takes Knight

Current board, Black to move.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Queen to a5, check
7. White - Bishop to d2: Black - Queen to c5
8. White - Knight to c6, takes Knight: Black - Queen to c4, takes Bishop

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

That's certainly best and probably leads to a win.
1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Queen to a5, check
7. White - Bishop to d2: Black - Queen to c5
8. White - Knight to c6, takes Knight: Black - Queen to c4, takes Bishop
9. White - Knight to b4:
Giving up the pawn and the right to castle next move. Horrible position for White.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I agree that Black's best option was to take the Bishop instead of the Knight.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

White should resign.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Not on this thread! There is always room for reciprocal blunders. That's part of the charm.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Queen to a5, check
7. White - Bishop to d2: Black - Queen to c5
8. White - Knight to c6, takes Knight: Black - Queen to c4, takes Bishop
9. White - Knight to b4: Black - Bishop to b4 takes Knight

I hope that is not the reciprocal mistake

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Actually, I now think White should resign. My last move was also a horrible error, losing a piece as well as a pawn.

LC's move stands but after 10. White - King to f1, Black can play moonlitdoor's move 10 ....Black -Bishop to b4, takes Knight. Winning the Knight as well, since after 11 White Bishop takes Knight, Black Queen takes the Bishop.

Is there anyone who thinks White has a cat in hell's chance in this game now? Otherwise, I reckon we should start a new game.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Heh the Knight should have gone to a5, not b4.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:

9. White - Knight to b4: Black - Bishop to b4 takes Knight

I hope that is not the reciprocal mistake

That was the move I was tempted by. I think it's a better move than the one I made.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:

LC's move stands but after 10. White - King to f1, Black can play moonlitdoor's move 10 ....Black -Bishop to b4, takes Knight. Winning the Knight as well, since after 11 White Bishop takes Knight, Black Queen takes the Bishop.

I think if white plays 10. Qe2 here then white doesn't lose the extra piece immediately, but the best he can do is end up another pawn or two down.

Either way it looks like he's hanging on and hoping for a mistake.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

True. I saw that after I posted. It's why moonlitdoor's immediate capture was better than your Qxpch. But Qe2 from White also looks as though it leads to further material loss. I still reckon White's best move is Resign!

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

Now I almost feel guilty for having played Qa5+ [Smile]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Well, since I have a move left out of my three, since I compounded the mess by my last Knight move, I'll give other's a chance to look at the White position next move.

1. White - Pawn to e4: Black - Pawn to c5
2. White - Knight to f3: Black - Knight to c6
3. White - Bishop to c4: Black - Pawn to e6
4. White - Pawn to d4: Black - Pawn from c5 to d4, takes Pawn
5. White - Knight to d4, takes Pawn: Black - Knight to f6
6. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Queen to a5, check
7. White - Bishop to d2: Black - Queen to c5
8. White - Knight to c6, takes Knight: Black - Queen to c4, takes Bishop
9. White - Knight to b4: Black - Queen to e4, takes Pawn. Check.
10. White - Queen to e2:

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Doesn't B x b4 just win a piece? If white plays Q X e4, Black plays B xd2 + before recapturing the Q.

[ 19. May 2016, 13:30: Message edited by: Caissa ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

In that sequence, the White Knight captures the Bishop on d2 and is then able to capture the Black Knight when it captures the White Queen on e4.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Thanks, Barnabass. The horizon effect.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

Funnily enough I was looking at the board for several minutes before trying to make Black's 9th, wondering if I was falling for a trap by Barnabas62. Waited for so long that I was overtaken by Leorning Cniht, then it wasn't a trap after all.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Last chance for anyone else to move for White. My 24 hours of "no move" are up in about half an hour, so I reckon I'm free to continue to prove that White is lost!

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Moves 1-10

11. White - Rook to f1

Current position

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

I still think White should resign. Any opportunities of interest require a massive blunder by Black

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Clearly, I have not posted enough moves ...

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

White looks like going three pawns down now, but if he can get castled Queenside and make use of the open spaces, there may be a bit of life left in the position. But I think Black can prevent that.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I don't understand why white can't still win.

[ 21. May 2016, 11:58: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Moves 1-10

11. White - Rook to f1: Black - Knight to e4

[ 21. May 2016, 12:01: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

Interesting. I was about to play N to g4 there, which I think may prevent white castling queen's side.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Moves 1-10

11. White - Rook to f1: Black - Knight to e4
12. White - Knight to d3:

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Bump!

Nobody wants to beat White?

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

I think it is more likely people think white should resign.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

DT is the moderator, happy for her to determine whether the game is is over.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I suspect that repeatedly saying white should resign has not acted as a spur to anyone's desire to move for white.

That said, let's call time on this particular game.

It is one all between white and black - best of 3, new game ?

[ 30. May 2016, 19:44: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Fine by me. So here goes with a new move 1.

1. White - Pawn to e4

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6

That's my 3 moves so time for someone else.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6
4. White - Pawn to h3

From what little I know of this variation, Black often tries to swop off his QB via an early Bg4. So a modest pawn move ..

[ 01. June 2016, 12:43: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6
4. White - Pawn to h3: Black - Pawn to e6

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

What is the point of h3?

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6
4. White - Pawn to h3: Black - Pawn to e6
5. White pawn to e5

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

re. h3, Black normaly develops the bishop on f5. Black's choice of g6 is also interesting.

[ 01. June 2016, 17:21: Message edited by: Caissa ]

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Apparently... g6, h3 is a book variation. Black normally follows with Bg7 instead of e6.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Gurgenidze system

Interesting video link. I didn't know h3 was a book line but it seems to frustrate any attempt to establish that line. I thought it was a little slow, but worth a try.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Sorry - should have said " I didn't know h3 was a book line but it seems to frustrate any attempt to establish the main objective of the Gurgenidze system (the positioning of the Black Kingside Knight)." Too many "that line"s!

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6
4. White - Pawn to h3: Black - Pawn to e6
5. White pawn to e5: Black - Bishop to b4

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6
4. White - Pawn to h3: Black - Pawn to e6
5. White pawn to e5: Black - Bishop to b4
6. White = Bishop to d2

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6
4. White - Pawn to h3 : Black - Pawn to e6
5. White - Pawn to e5 : Black - Bishop to b4
6. White - Bishop to d2 : Black - Bishop takes knight on c3

That's my 3 moves in a row done.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Why does black play g6 to fianchetto the Bishop and then trade it on c3?

[ 06. June 2016, 12:45: Message edited by: Caissa ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Two different players!

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Yet, there should be a coherent plan arising out of the position. Black now has a long term weakness on the black squares.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

I disagree.

Black's pawn movements have given a very firm defence on the white squares, nullifying an attack from the white-square bishop and the queen. White's black-square bishop is now rather awkward, while black's queen can slip through of the pawn wall either side.

If anything, the key squares to squabble over now looks to be around g4 and f6, which black is well positioned to take advantage of.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Without a black squared bishop and with white having a black squared bishop, white is stronger on the black sqauares. f6,g5,h6 and g7 are all wak.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

I don't think g5 is weak for black at all. White has nothing that could get there quickly and effectively. It would take at least 3 moves to get something there safely.

If black does have a weakness it's that the knight and bishop on the queen's side are both tied up at the moment, though that could be quickly eased by advancing a pawn to b5.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Sipech.

Under standing orders for the thread, nobody has move Black for over 24 hours so you're free to start moving again for Black to test out your ideas.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

yes, I've held off moving as I don't like b5 as a move for Black, but I don't want to zig zag between opposing tactics, so I think it's better for Sipech to continue with his plan.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Go for what you want moonlitdoor. That's the idea of crowd sourcing.

I was mooting those points, but never actually mentioned the move I would *actually* make. I'll be interested to see if you make it.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

It's fairly clear that my choice of b6 followed by Ba6 is not what you had in mind, that's what I meant by zig zag tactics. I can play it, equally am happy for you to continue with your approach.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

After you...

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6
4. White - Pawn to h3 : Black - Pawn to e6
5. White - Pawn to e5 : Black - Bishop to b4
6. White - Bishop to d2 : Black - Bishop takes knight on c3
7. White - Bishop to c3 takes Bishop: Black - Pawn to b6

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

5. White - Pawn to e5 : Black - Bishop to b4
6. White - Bishop to d2 : Black - Bishop takes knight on c3
7. White - Bishop to c3 takes Bishop: Black - Pawn to b6
8. White Knight to e2

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

5. White - Pawn to e5 : Black - Bishop to b4
6. White - Bishop to d2 : Black - Bishop takes knight on c3
7. White - Bishop to c3 takes Bishop: Black - Pawn to b6
8. White Knight to e2 : Black bishop to a6

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Obviously preparing Bg2 followed by 0-0 or if white chooses instead after Bg2 it could be Qd2 and 0-0-0.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

5. White - Pawn to e5 : Black - Bishop to b4
6. White - Bishop to d2 : Black - Bishop takes knight on c3
7. White - Bishop to c3 takes Bishop: Black - Pawn to b6
8. White - Knight to e2 : Black - Bishop to a6
9. White - Pawn to g3 : Black - Pawn to f5

En passant ou non?

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Why would White take en passant and give black a good post for the N on f6?

[ 09. June 2016, 16:16: Message edited by: Caissa ]

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

7. White - Bishop to c3 takes Bishop: Black - Pawn to b6
8. White - Knight to e2 : Black - Bishop to a6
9. White - Pawn to g3 : Black - Pawn to f5
10. White- Bishop to g2

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

7. White - Bishop to c3 takes Bishop: Black - Pawn to b6
8. White - Knight to e2 : Black - Bishop to a6
9. White - Pawn to g3 : Black - Pawn to f5
10. White- Bishop to g2 : Black - Bishop takes Knight on e2

Current Board

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

I have made 3 consecutive white moves but the response for white is obvious when someone makes it Q x e2. White now has the advantage of 2 B vs. 2 N.

[ 09. June 2016, 16:27: Message edited by: Caissa ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to c6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black - Pawn to d5
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Pawn to g6
4. White - Pawn to h3 : Black - Pawn to e6
5. White - Pawn to e5 : Black - Bishop to b4
6. White - Bishop to d2 : Black - Bishop takes knight on c3
7. White - Bishop to c3 takes Bishop: Black - Pawn to b6
8. White - Knight to e2 : Black - Bishop to a6
9. White - Pawn to g3 : Black - Pawn to f5
10. White- Bishop to g2 : Black - Bishop takes Knight on e2

First 10 moves

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Moves 1 to 10

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight

I agree, that's obvious and best. You'll note I had to put an extra post in to provide a link for the first 10 moves. Just sticking to the normal format for the thread.

Current Position

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :

Crowd-sourced chess on a discussion board with an open community has the attraction that anyone can play, whether a grand master or a rank amateur.

To maintain that sense of open community, whilst discussion of the game is great, can we please hold off from questioning or implying criticism other people's moves?

If I continue to get the impression that there are too many "Why on earth did you do thats, I may be forced to join the game. Then you'd definitely have something to question.

Smudgie
Circus Host

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Moves 1 to 10

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Moves 1 to 10

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12 White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight:
Doublethink, I'm happy to withdraw the move if you've simply got your board set up wrong. Which I figure you may have. I wouldn't want White to benefit from that.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Much as I would like to say I meant e7, I overlooked the threat to the knight.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

OK, Then I guess your move stands, and so does mine. This is where we are now at.

Moves 1 to 10

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12. White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight:

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Moves 1 to 10

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12. White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight: Black - Queen takes Pawn on f6

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Am I able to respond to Smudgie's comments re. kibitzing in this thread or is Styx the proper place to respond to them?

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :

Hi Caissa,
You're right, the Styx is the place to discuss any hostly comments or actions, rather than interrupting the thread.
I've just learned a new word (google is my friend). [Smile]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I'm out of moves for 24 hours.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12. White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight: Black - Queen takes Pawn on f6
13. White - Queen to e5 Black- 0-0
14. White - Queen to f6, takes Queen

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12. White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight: Black - Queen takes Pawn on f6
13. White - Queen to e5 Black- 0-0
14. White - Queen to f6, takes Queen Black Rook to f6, takes Queen

Smudgie, I made a query in The Styx.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12. White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight: Black - Queen takes Pawn on f6
13. White - Queen to e5 Black- 0-0
14. White - Queen to f6, takes Queen: Black - Rook to f6, takes Queen
15. White - 0-0: Black - Knight to a6

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12. White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight: Black - Queen takes Pawn on f6
13. White - Queen to e5 Black- 0-0
14. White - Queen to f6, takes Queen: Black - Rook to f6, takes Queen
15. White - 0-0: Black - Knight to a6
16.
White- Bishop on c3 to d2

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

14. White - Queen to f6, takes Queen: Black - Rook to f6, takes Queen
15. White - 0-0: Black - Knight to a6
16. White- Bishop on c3 to d2: Black- Pawn to c5

17. White- Bishop to g5

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Moves 1 to 10

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12. White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight: Black - Queen takes Pawn on f6
13. White - Queen to e5: Black- 0-0
14. White - Queen to f6, takes Queen: Black - Rook to f6, takes Queen
15. White - 0-0: Black - Knight to a6
16. White - Bishop on c3 to d2: Black- Pawn to c5
17. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Rook to f7

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

15. White - 0-0: Black - Knight to a6
16. White - Bishop on c3 to d2: Black- Pawn to c5
17. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Rook to f7
18. White Pawn to c4.
--------------------
That's my three consecutive moves. I started a thread about kibitzing in The Styx. I would be interested in the thoughts of other participants in this game.

I originally considered c3 but think c4 is stronger especially being up a piece for a pawn.

[ 14. June 2016, 12:52: Message edited by: Caissa ]

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Moves 1 to 10

11. White - Queen to e2, takes Knight: Black - Knight to f6
12. White - Pawn on e5 to f6, takes Knight: Black - Queen takes Pawn on f6
13. White - Queen to e5: Black- 0-0
14. White - Queen to f6, takes Queen: Black - Rook to f6, takes Queen
15. White - 0-0: Black - Knight to a6
16. White - Bishop on c3 to d2: Black- Pawn to c5
17. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Rook to f7
18. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Rook to d7

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

. White - Bishop to g5: Black - Rook to f7
18. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Rook to d7
19. White - Rook on f1 to e1: Black - Knight to c7
20. White- Bishop to f4

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

18. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Rook to d7
19. White - Rook on f1 to e1: Black - Knight to c7
20. White - Bishop to f4: Black - Rook on a8 to d8
21. White - Pawn takes c5

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Moves 1-20

21. White - Pawn to c5, takes pawn: Black - Pawn to c4, takes pawn

Current Position

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

21. White - Pawn to c5, takes pawn: Black - Pawn to c4, takes pawn
22. White - Bishop to c6

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Request permission from the Host and other players to continue to play Black. No one else seems interested, not surprisingly. Black's position is very bad. But I'm happy to see it through to the bitter end. And the next few moves contain some interesting possibilities.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

I'll carry on on the black ship.

Moves 1-20

21. White - Pawn to c5, takes pawn: Black - Pawn to c4, takes pawn
22. White - Bishop to c6: Black: Rook to f7

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Alternatively, there is only one move by the Black Rook on d7, currently attacked by the Bishop on c6, which avoids the loss of the exchange and continues to defend the Knight on c7. One of you might be prepared to find that move and make it. Then I'd be able to come in for another three moves for Black.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Thanks, Sipech. Yes, that's the move!

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

Moves 1-20

21. White - Pawn to c5, takes pawn: Black - Pawn to c4, takes pawn
22. White - Bishop to c6: Black: Rook to f7
23. White - Pawn to b6, takes pawn

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

21. White - Pawn to c5, takes pawn: Black - Pawn to c4, takes pawn
22. White - Bishop to c6: Black: Rook to f7
23. White - Pawn to b6, takes pawn: Black - Pawn takes Pawn on b6
24. White- Bishop to c7 takes Knight

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

22. White - Bishop to c6: Black: Rook to f7
23. White - Pawn to b6, takes pawn: Black - Pawn takes Pawn on b6
24. White -Bishop to c7, takes Knight: Black - Rook to c7, takes Bishop
25. Black- Rook to e6, takes pawn

[ 16. June 2016, 18:13: Message edited by: Caissa ]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

Assuming that's not Black trying to recover some ground by making two moves in a row, we'll call it a move for White [Biased]

22. White - Bishop to c6: Black: Rook to f7
23. White - Pawn to b6, takes pawn: Black - Pawn takes Pawn on b6
24. White - Bishop to c7, takes Knight: Black - Rook to c7, takes Bishop
25. White - Rook to e6, takes pawn: Black - Rook to d2

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

23. White - Pawn to b6, takes pawn: Black - Pawn takes Pawn on b6
24. White - Bishop to c7, takes Knight: Black - Rook to c7, takes Bishop
25. White - Rook to e6, takes pawn: Black - Rook to d2
26. White Rook to b1

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Moves 1-20

21. White - Pawn to c5, takes pawn: Black - Pawn to c4, takes pawn
22. White - Bishop to c6: Black: Rook to f7
23. White - Pawn to b6, takes pawn: Black - Pawn takes Pawn on b6
24. White -Bishop to c7, takes Knight: Black - Rook to c7, takes Bishop
25. White - Rook to e6, takes pawn: Black - Rook to d2
26. White - Rook to b1: Black - King to f7

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

24. White -Bishop to c7, takes Knight: Black - Rook to c7, takes Bishop
25. White - Rook to e6, takes pawn: Black - Rook to d2
26. White - Rook to b1: Black - King to f7
27. White- Rook on b1 to e1

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

Moves 1-20

21. White - Pawn to c5, takes pawn: Black - Pawn to c4, takes pawn
22. White - Bishop to c6: Black: Rook to f7
23. White - Pawn to b6, takes pawn: Black - Pawn takes Pawn on b6
24. White - Bishop to c7, takes Knight: Black - Rook to c7, takes Bishop
25. White - Rook to e6, takes pawn: Black - Rook to d2
26. White - Rook to b1: Black - King to f7
27. White- Rook on b1 to e1: Black - Rook takes Pawn on b2

Current Board

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Moves 1-20

21. White - Pawn to c5, takes pawn: Black - Pawn to c4, takes pawn
22. White - Bishop to c6: Black: Rook to f7
23. White - Pawn to b6, takes pawn: Black - Pawn takes Pawn on b6
24. White - Bishop to c7, takes Knight: Black - Rook to c7, takes Bishop
25. White - Rook to e6, takes pawn: Black - Rook to d2
26. White - Rook to b1: Black - King to f7
27. White- Rook on b1 to e1: Black - Rook takes Pawn on b2
28. White - Bishop to d5

Quite nice to be able to change sides! I think this works but I'll play it quickly.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

That's the move I would have played Barnabas if I had not exhausted my 3 moves in a row.

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

I don't see any viable moves for Black.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Black must move his King to avoid the double-check (or discovered check) from the Bishop. I think White can then swop off a pair of Rooks, capture the Black pawn on c4 with the Bishop, and defend the white pawn on a2. The resulting simplified position looks like an easy end-game win for White, who emerges a whole piece ahead with equal pawns.

I haven't looked at all the variations, but that's what I can see.

[ 17. June 2016, 14:02: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

I'd be willing to offer Black's resignation.

It was materially level up until move 11 with Black having the better position, but the sacrifice of the knight on f6 has been well exploited by white which has remained error-free.

I considered rook taking bishop for the last move, in anticipation of white moving to either d5 or e8, but that would only string out black's demise for longer.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

I'd be willing to accept black's resignation.

Shall we try a new game ?

Doublethink

Circus Host

(Note to self, set up chess board to follow moves - flipping between tabs does your head in.)

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Agreed. I made the last opening move so I reckon it's someone else's try.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4 Black - pawn to g6

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black- Knight to f6

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black- Knight to f6
3. White - Knight to c3

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black- Knight to f6
3. White - Knight to c3: Black - Bishop to g7

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black- Knight to f6
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Bishop to g7
4. White - Pawn to e4

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black- Knight to f6
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Bishop to g7
4. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to d6

We look as though we have the first few standard moves of the Kings Indian Defence. MCO might even come in handy!

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

I have a few volumes of ECO sitting next to my chess board here at work. It could also become some type of Pirc.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black- Knight to f6
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Bishop to g7
4. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to d6
5. White - Knight to f3 : Black - 0-0

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black- Knight to f6
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Bishop to g7
4. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to d6
5. White - Knight to f3 : Black - 0-0
6. White - Bishop to e2

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

1. White - Pawn to c4: Black - Pawn to g6
2. White - Pawn to d4 : Black- Knight to f6
3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Bishop to g7
4. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to d6
5. White - Knight to f3 : Black - 0-0
6. White - Bishop to e2Black- Pawn to c5

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Pretty sure we're still in "the book". I'm away until Friday pm - this comes courtesy of my iPhone 4 - so I'll be kibitzing rather than moving. Our format would be a bit much for these tiny virtual keys ...

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Bishop to g7
4. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to d6
5. White - Knight to f3 : Black - 0-0
6. White - Bishop to e2 : Black - Pawn to c5
7. White - 0-0 : Black - Pawn takes Pawn on d4
8. White- Knight takes pawn on d4

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

I can't make the next move. Has the appetite for crowd sourced chess diminished?

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

3. White - Knight to c3 : Black - Bishop to g7
4. White - Pawn to e4 : Black - Pawn to d6
5. White - Knight to f3 : Black - 0-0
6. White - Bishop to e2 : Black - Pawn to c5
7. White - 0-0 : Black - Pawn takes Pawn on d4
8. White- Knight takes pawn on d4 : Black Knight (b8) to d7

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

5. White - Knight to f3 : Black - 0-0
6. White - Bishop to e2 : Black - Pawn to c5
7. White - 0-0 : Black - Pawn takes Pawn on d4
8. White- Knight takes pawn on d4 : Black Knight (b8) to d7
9. White: Bishop to g4

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Shall we abandon this game?

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Going, going....

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Gone!

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