Thread: regret having children? Board: Purgatory / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Do you regret having children?

Is there a contradiction between loving your child and havinh regrets?

Fwiw, I think having children is a process of sacrifice and loss, so having feelings of regret may be entirely understandable. One can be fully engaged and loving of a child whilst at the same time experiencing feelings of loss, I think.
 

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Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
I always thought I wanted to have four children, but soon discovered that two were more than enough!

Now that they are grown up and independent I don't regret it at all. When they were small and hard work? Oh yes, sometimes!

Now I'm back in the thick of it having a new puppy every year - like permanently having a toddler in the house. But I love it

Even so, I have no real hankering for grandchildren - and my sons and their partners show no signs of 'nesting' at all. All four are enjoying fulfilling careers and social lives.
 

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Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
Having tried so hard for our only daughter (and had 4 miscarriages afterwards) I could never regret having her.

Even though she has been through traumatic times, she has given us 2 wonderful grandsons and they in turn have presented us with a bright, intelligent and loving great granddaughter.

When I look at our family line I am just so proud of them all, how could I regret having a child.

Maybe if it is easy come easy go, then children can be regretted, and probably are. But I think that is a tragedy.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Here's the thing. If you're the full-time parent, you are necessarily doing only that. I felt like I lost 5 years of my life - at some point after the youngest had gone to school, I woke up from the permanent fug of exhaustion and was able to reassess life and what I wanted from it. The next ten years was a more manageable but constant round of housework and childcare and ferrying: I was able to restart what I laughingly call my 'career'.

So, no I don't regret having kids, and neither do I resent them. I have a genuinely brilliant relationship with them and they're both decent people I had a major part in forming.

I still need to acknowledge that those 5 years came at a critical time - early 30s - when I could have put all my energies into something else. That didn't happen.
 

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Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
The examples online include many people who still have young children. These parents often regret the loss of freedom and the financial constraints of parenthood. Then there are those who feel that having children has damaged their relationship with their partner. Other parents are older and have a poor relationship with their adult children, so regret the sacrifices they made for them.

I'm going to make the slightly controversial guess that for various reasons the Ship's demographic is unlikely to include many who are currently dealing with such problems. Moreover, it's a taboo subject, isn't it? One of the biggest around today.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
I might regret it if I see either of them, (now adults), struggling or unhappy in some way. Whether it be over relationships, work or whatever.
Also if anyone wants to go all *dark Green* with -- the world is screwed and full of horrible people- bit, then that again might produce some vague feeling of regret at producing them and exposing them to such. But this is more likely me putting my head on their shoulders and going of into the realms of silly.

On the whole I did, (and still do), my best for them when I was there which, I admit, wasn't all the time for one reason and another.
'Regret' is, in many ways, a multifaceted and misunderstood word and not one that we really want beat ourselves over the head with.
 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
I have sometimes regretted that I do not have children of my own, but then I consider that I have had opportunities to help my friends and family as they are growing up. I suspect that my regrets should I have had children would have been a mixture of wishful thinking about how much else I might have done without that responsibility and of fear that I had not done all they needed to have an ideal upbringing. It seems pointless to dwell on either of these. Perhaps my energy is better spent in tackling the causes of discontent and lessened potential.

Cattyish, hoping for good things.
 

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Posted by SusanDoris (# 12618) on :
 
Certainly no regrets about having my sons. I should have made a far better choice of father , but whatever of his genetics have become part of them, they themselves made sure that they did not grow up with his abusive behaviour patterns!

Even if one did regret having children, that, like all feelings of regret at anything thought, felt or done in the past, would be a waste of time because the past cannot be changed. We can only hope that our experiences can possibly help someone younger to avoid our mistakes, but then of course, they will make a whole new set of their own.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
In the last 48 hours, I've been peed on, bit, yelled at, locked out of the house, and awoken at an unreasonable hour for a Saturday. Two is the real deal, folks.

There is a book out there called "All Joy, No Fun." I think no fun is a bit of an exaggeration, but overall it's a solid description. I love this little girl, and she brings a lot of joy, but I certainly wish that I had a little more freedom. It's harder on my wife, because she is less of a homebody than me.

The Mary and Martha story hits home at least once a day. You constantly need to remind yourself not to get lost in the work and remember that you have the privilege of being with this amazing creature for the most important years of its life.
 

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Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
No. No regrets. I can't claim to have been a particularly good father, but I can't really imagine now an adult life without them. And not only are my grandchildren lovely. When they poo or throw up, it's someone else's job now to clear it up.
 

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Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Maybe I'm just different to everyone else. I've put in 15+ years where I put my family and my child first. That meant giving up any idea of a career (I'm apparently now unemployable), have moved to different parts of the country 5 or 6 times, and frankly have little to show for the last 20 years.

I'd be a liar if this didn't sometimes lead to regret, tinged with a type of jealousy.

On the other hand, I know that I have made hard choices and have always put my family first. I know that there have been few important times in my child's life when a parent was missing. Nobody can say that I, that we, could have made choices that prioritised career or work or housing, or whatnot. But we didn't. I choose to be there.

And when in those times when everything is grey, that's enough.
 

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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
My father is descended from 1 of 5 brothers who survived WW2, all of his first cousins died, all of their families. Annihilation. We located one relative and have connected. It wasn't so much as a question as an imperative to have children. I have loved being a parent. The intergenerational effects of family traum have faded with my children. This generational shift has been the hardest thing in the third decade of their lives. The importance of family is there but different. Which has taken some time for me to understand.

So I don't regret having children, rather, the opposite. Would have had more if biological reality made it possible. I am that slightly odd guy who always talks and plays with the children in any gathering. If the adults are talking and the kids are antsy, I will take them to the park or playground. I don't care about mess, poop or anything. I love little people. I love the way they reason and following their instruction. Reading books, repetitive throwing into the air. Whatever. I hope my kids figure out how to organise life and have children. 30 is the new 20 however.
 

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Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :
 
I have an 8 month old and no regrets at all. My wife, on the other hand, is finding adjusting tough and identified a lot with some of the parents in the article. The lack of time alone and not on watch is what's affecting her the most.
 

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Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
I have an 8 month old and no regrets at all. My wife, on the other hand, is finding adjusting tough and identified a lot with some of the parents in the article. The lack of time alone and not on watch is what's affecting her the most.

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You get used to being 'on watch', it becomes the normal state.


 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
It is also bloody knackering.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
The lack of time alone and not on watch is what's affecting her the most.

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That is absolutely the toughest part, and when we have engaged in honest conversation with other parents, we have generally agreed that nothing will cause resentment between parents like the sense that you are "on" for an unfair amount of time, or that your spouse is getting an unfair amount of alone time.

In two and a quarter years, I'm still not "used" to being on watch all the time, especially since she still becomes a new person with new strategies for reeking havoc every three weeks. You come up with tricks and tactics to deal with it or make it easier. And you definitely are rewarded as they grow up and start telling you they love you (we will see how long that lasts). But it's still hard, and I'm still tired all the time.
 

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Posted by DonLogan2 (# 15608) on :
 
Do you regret having a partner?

To love opens people up to being hurt and more besides, it didn`t stop God
 

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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
Certain, young children who won't sleep, or get into everything steal your lifeblood like parasites eating your innards, seem like they should be given back. Parents are like God to them. The source of all goodness. Like all love, it requires a reach outside of oneself, and it grows. There's no avoiding fatigue, pain and sorrow with love. But I can think of fewer personal tragedies than lives not lived.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
All I'm saying is that the day to day can be really hard, and I think that folks who aren't in the middle of it sometimes forget that, especially when you get general questions like the OP. I went to a round table discussion about life and being a lawyer, and one question we were asked was, "does being a parent make you a better lawyer?" And the responses from senior attorneys and judges were that, yes, it does make you a better lawyer. But that sure isn't reflected when the same guy is giving you your performance report and looking at your billable hours.
 

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Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
I am conflicted about this. I was lousy parent and I do admit this freely. So, if you had asked this question 40 years ago, my answer to the OP would have been a resounding "YES"

But even adults grow up. I delight in the fact that for over 30 years, I have worked in Scouting with other people's children, have accepted the joys and burdens of loving all my nieces and nephews and their children, have been the best uncle I could possibly be. In a few cases, I have been an honorary grandfather, and stand-in for someone missing, or dead. My joy and my pleasure.

I can't change 45 years ago. But I can change now. And I have.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
All that said, my kid got out of the bathtub tonight, and only wanted to run around the house naked and dance. So I turned on the Dead and rolled with it. And it was 1000 times more fun than I would have had at a bar.

(MSG 9/16/1990)
 

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Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
No. My only regret is that we didn't have more.

Yes, there are times when they are infuriating or thoughtless - but then we can all behave in ways that are irritating to others.

Children don't ask to be born: once the decision is made to have them the die is cast.

Of course, it does help that my pair are the most handsome, amusing, bright, engaging young men I know!
 

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Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
Our regret is that we could not have more. Madame had had trouble carrying, with several miscarriages - one quite late. Dlet was induced a bit early and arrived safely, but he. too, may not have made it the whole way. We were then advised not to try for more but would dearly have loved another 2 or even 3.

Fortunately Madame was able to change things around at the fworks much better all around than a nanny at home or child care byut still demanding on her in particular. Yes, mealtimes can be interesting, toilet training even more so, let alone later development, but we would not be without him.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
My mother had 4 children and only one grandchild, much to her disappointment. We told her she had quality, not quantity . I am quite close to my nephew and he often phones so he can bounce ideas off me.

I chose not to have children. Some people may have seen that as a selfish decision, but I believe that children deserve the best and when I was of child bearing age I didn't believe I could offer that. Being a teacher I was well aware of children who had missed out in many ways and I couldn't bear to be responsible for short-changing a child.

I am happy with my decision.

From my position on the outside I admire the love and dedication of many parents, it's a tough job.

Huia

[ 12. February 2017, 07:01: Message edited by: Huia ]
 

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Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :
 
Absolutely no regrets.
At the same time, if I hadn't had a child, I don't think I would have regretted being childless. Your life just takes a different direction.
Ironically, if I hadn't had my daughter I would almost certainly have worked in paediatric occupational therapy rather than social services; that was my main interest as I had experience as a primary school teacher and had also worked in a special needs unit. But my daughter was three when I qualified, and only social services had newly qualified OT posts with flexible hours.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
I don't do regret over personal choices. Even when I've underestimated the consequences. That being said, my wife and I agree that we both underestimated some of the painful consequences of parenting. We found parenting to be tougher than we expected and some of that toughness is ongoing, even though our sons are now in their 40s.

We made mistakes in bringing up our children, have admitted those to them both and apologised for the pain we caused them. Parenting can be very frustrating and those frustrations can make us angry, take out the frustrations on them and others. I guess the most important lesson we've learned from that is that one of the best gifts we can give our children is to show them that parents are people, have their own 'stuff' to deal with that, sometimes fail to do the best for their children they have always desired to do.

If our children 'get' that, they can learn for themselves an important lesson in bringing up their own children. I learned from my own parents that children do not ask to be born, and your prime responsibility is to do your best for them. But not expect to be perfect at that.

Bringing up children teaches us a lot about our personal limits. Unselfish loving is a great principle to apply, but it can be very tough to apply in practice. The costs can be much higher than we anticipated. But I still think it is the best way to go. The 1 Corinthians 13 principles re patience, kindness, avoiding self-seeking, persevering, being hopeful, still strike me as right, as we close on 50 years experience of the unfinished task of trying to be the best parents we can be.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 

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Originally posted by Huia:
I chose not to have children. Some people may have seen that as a selfish decision, but I believe that children deserve the best and when I was of child bearing age I didn't believe I could offer that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by HCH:
We could have a separate thread to ask people who do not have any children if they have regrets on the subject. Of course, it might be depressing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Do you regret having children?

Is there a contradiction between loving your child and having regrets?

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quote:

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Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Fwiw, I think having children is a process of sacrifice and loss, so having feelings of regret may be entirely understandable. One can be fully engaged and loving of a child whilst at the same time experiencing feelings of loss, I think.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:

I still need to acknowledge that those 5 years came at a critical time - early 30s - when I could have put all my energies into something else. That didn't happen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by anoesis:

Oh - also - in the last year or so, I observed the following points. 1.) The two most centred other mothers I know at present do the absolute minimum of housework required to get by, 2.) My children are happier messy and dirty than otherwise, and 3.) my husband spends so much time in his own head that he barely notices his environment. So now we live in chaos too.

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I'm pretty sure you're not my wife, but you sound a lot like her But I agree. In principle, I'd love to have an ordered house ("tidy" isn't really the word, because I tend to organize things in big convenient stacks in a sensible-seeming place, so there will be little piles of books, projects-in-progress and so on all over the place.) The kids, however, like to play massive involved games involving everything they can lay their hands on, which means all the spaces they use spend most of their time looking like a bomb has hit. Plus there's the small entropy monster, who spends his life carrying small objects around the house until he finds a different small object that he prefers. You can tell where he's been by the trail of out-of place objects in surprise cupboards, shelves, and so on.

I'm vaguely hoping that once the youngest gets to be 8 or 9, we'll have a house full of bookworms and relative order will be achievable.

But until then, life's too short to keep things tidy.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
One of my favourite sayings (which I think may be original) is; "cleanliness may be next to Godliness, but tidiness is next to impossible"

Huia I can't even blame kids
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

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Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Plus there's the small entropy monster, who spends his life carrying small objects around the house until he finds a different small object that he prefers. You can tell where he's been by the trail of out-of place objects in surprise cupboards, shelves, and so on. [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:

Those who lament lost opportunities might want to consider that they might have lost a decade or two in entry level jobs. Or unemployed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by anoesis:


What has changed?* I really don't know. Just the passage of time, most probably. I think I was able to move on from some of the stuff I felt I had lost, just because I accepted it was never coming back, that there is no 'back'. There is only forward, where you adapt to your new circumstances in whatever way you can. In that respect, it's a bit like an amputation, I think. After a period of time, a person learns to do everything they need to do, and usually fairly close to everything they did beforehand, even being down a limb, but it's harder, much harder. No-one in full possession of their limbs can really have any comprehension of the all day, every day, forever, reality of that situation - but, that doesn't mean it's all grim, all the time.

Oh - also - in the last year or so, I observed the following points. 1.) The two most centred other mothers I know at present do the absolute minimum of housework required to get by, 2.) My children are happier messy and dirty than otherwise, and 3.) my husband spends so much time in his own head that he barely notices his environment. So now we live in chaos too. While it's not my ideal, I genuinely no longer feel housework as a bloody millstone around my neck. No-one else cares whether I do it or not. So I do it when I feel like it, and, voila! it is no longer a chore. No guilt.

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quote:

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I am trying to put down some words in a comprehensible order here, while being continuously interrupted by small people coming through to tell me obvious stuff, such as, 'we turned the stereo on, can you hear it?', and 'I'm playing in the family room', 'It's windy today', 'I'm hungry', 'Can I have some toast?', 'When will it be my turn with the X?'

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quote:

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Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:

On the whole it's been an ego / pride thing for me. A few years ago 'listen to me, listen to me' from them stirred up in me 'but I'm always f*cking listening to you, why can't I still be _meeeee_'. Now the older one is starting to congratulate herself on having a personality of her own, and starting to flex her opinions, the same monster rises in me. I remember a great Alan Partridge where he counters a stroppy early-teen with something like 'yeh, but you can't drink in the pub and I bet you haven't even got pubic hair'... Now I try to think 'what if she were handicapped in some way' (or whatever the f*cking PC term is) 'and was set to never develop her own personality and express her own opinions'.

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I need to be a much larger, better human than I am, and much closer to my external 46 than my internal (often) 16. Relinquishing things is tough - I tell myself loss of career normally comes shortly before loss of life, so I have longer to enjoy the loss. It's harder when my wife (deep in career) and I are not on the same side, which is often. This experience certainly gives the lie to quite a lot of gender-essentialist thought around career and childcare - we often behave as stereotypical assholes despite the gender swap.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:

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Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:

Those who lament lost opportunities might want to consider that they might have lost a decade or two in entry level jobs. Or unemployed.

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Whilst this is undoubtedly true, I'd suggest that you might want to consider your words more carefully before saying such things to someone struggling with their feelings of regret.

Yes, I am fully aware that a vast array of possible scenarios exist where I'm in a worse personal situation, thanks. Funnily enough that doesn't stop the periodic feelings of regret - if you don't get them, be grateful not smug and self-righteous.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mudfrog:
I'm sorry?

I'm sure she would make her own response admirably - I can tell you that she loves our sons and is as proud of them as a mother could ever be.

She would likewise have no regrets whatsoever.

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That's two - three - different things. I love both my kids. I'm very proud of them both. But I - and I'm sure Mrs Mudfrog has - sacrificed a great deal to bring them up.

I'm not saying that the sacrifice wasn't worth it. But it still doesn't mean I can't consider the path not taken. I don't love my kids any less for that.
 

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Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
I've tried two or three times to compose an answer to this thread, only to delete it because I couldn't quite come out with anything that sounded coherent. Anoesis' and Jemima the 9th's posts have both resonated a lot with me, even though my situation is different (older mum with an only child who is 3 - she's even an amazing sleeper!). I think though I've figured out why I was struggling with the right words - it's because although I feel *something*, it's not regret, I'm just finding it quite hard to name whatever it is.

I don't regret having my daughter, not for a minute. I do though absolutely relate to not feeling like parenting is coming naturally, and I worry that I am letting her down by not being good enough. That is exacerbated by postnatal anxiety, which is now mostly OK (or at least manageable) but does still rear its ugly head from time to time. I also feel bad sometimes that because we are older parents she is always going to be an only child. I feel bad that sometimes I find parenting boring. I feel bad that I sometimes can't face doing fun things with her because I'm too tired. My career feels like it's regressing, and whilst I'm not a career-minded person particularly I nodded scarily enthusiastically at Jemima's "I miss my brain". I feel so selfish, and I hate that.

I still feel like I'm constantly aware of everything around us and prepared for everything (although that is much less intense now than it was in the first year). I do feel like my identity, which felt pretty much lost and buried in the first year, is re-emerging, but do I like it as much? I don't know, I'm too tired to think about it too deeply.

I think a lot of what I'm looking to express here is guilt, mixed in with being knackered. But regret, no.

[Edit: apologies Jemima for mis-attributing your posts elsewhere. Baby brain ]

[ 13. February 2017, 20:50: Message edited by: Jack the Lass ]
 

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
I've tried two or three times to compose an answer to this thread, only to delete it because I couldn't quite come out with anything that sounded coherent.

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Originally posted by rolyn:
Maybe some of what we are talking about here are misgivings as opposed to regret. Regret has implications of a deep sense of pain going on. I do not think anyone, female or male, who has brought a child into the world could equate that event with such a feeling.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rolyn:
Misgivings tend to be retrospective [...]

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quote:

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Originally posted by rolyn:
Maybe some of what we are talking about here are misgivings as opposed to regret. Regret has implications of a deep sense of pain going on. I do not think anyone, female or male, who has brought a child into the world could equate that event with such a feeling.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mudfrog:


Despite spending huge amounts of money that I could have kept to myself for my wife and I to have a luxurious lifestyle! (not), I do not feel sorry, disappointed or distressed for having those boys in our life.

I guess I'm abnormal then??

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You misunderstand. This is nothing about being sorry for having individuals in our lives who are our children, it is about a deep sense of regret about the way our lives have gone and the things we've had to give up.

I'm not sure there is an abnormal/normal in this situation, you either experience these feelings or you don't.
 

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Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
What if? is a very human question.

But I'm grateful that having children was, for me, a choice.

100 years ago I would have been popping them out one after another with little or no choice.

Yes, we were very unprepared - but isn't everybody?

I know plenty of people who get a new puppy and are amazed at how much time they need to give up and just how 'on watch' they need to be. You can't wrap a puppy in a nappy and pop it in a cot
 

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Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
I do think it is more than that, though.

Oversimplifying the problem: modern life is very binary, the expectation is that people are only fully human if they're engaged in worthwhile careers. Parenting is desirable as long as it doesn't get in the way.

Unlike in the past, economic pressures today mean that an increasing number of parents are completely disengaged from careers and other social outlets - in order to allow another partner to progress in career (or for economic reasons, if that's different).

Which, I think, makes many people unhappy. The parents who work fulltime may well regret a lack of family time. The parent who works part-time may well experience a lack of worthwhile career. The parent who doesn't work may well experience isolation and forms of depression.

Other people from different generations experienced these things differently. For one thing they tended to remain in one place for longer, for another it was much easier to find a less demanding job which paid the bills. Of course, those other generations experienced different kinds of problems.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Bib and son)) - wish there was something helpful I could say, but I don't think there is.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I wasn't sure I wanted children. The Old Man was much more sure. But no regrets at all about them - they are absolutely the lights of my life.

However, they have tied me into my marriage. But then, as I'm RC, and believe there's no way out of my marriage anyway, I suppose that is a good thing and not a regret. Sigh.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 

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Originally posted by anoesis:
you don't think there can be any deep sense of pain going on? Then let me introduce you to my good friend, or at least companion of many years, post-natal depression. And don't tell me whether I have felt, or am feeling, pain or not. It's only a hairsbreadth away from that to implying that people should quit whining and snap out of it.

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You do not know enough people. There are selfish, horrible people who are parents. And every horrible waste of carbon you have ever encountered is someone's child.
And there is everything in between that and wonderful selfless parents of fantastic children. Most people are somewhere in between.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SusanDoris:
[snip]

Even if one did regret having children, that, like all feelings of regret at anything thought, felt or done in the past, would be a waste of time because the past cannot be changed. We can only hope that our experiences can possibly help someone younger to avoid our mistakes, but then of course, they will make a whole new set of their own.

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