Ship of Fools: Who is family?

Thread: Who is family? Board: Purgatory / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

When you refer to "family", do you normally think of:

-- blood relatives only
-- blood relatives and their spouses
-- blood relatives, their spouses and stepchildren
-- more distant connections

or do you use the term more generally? Are there times you disagree even with your own family members about who is included?

In my own family, I have a case to consider. I am changing all the names. My brother Phil married a woman named Sally who had been married before and had a daughter from that marriage named Tina. Phil and Sally eventually produced a daughter named Meg. Phil and Sally divorced, and Phil eventually remarried.

There is a spectrum of opinion among my blood relatives about whether to consider Sally and Tina still as "family". My father had no way to describe the relationships and basically dropped them, for instance. I don't think Sally wants any more to do with us (save for Meg) (although Sally came to my mother's funeral and wept more than most of us), and I no longer have an address for her. Meg, of course, keeps in touch with her mother and half-sister. Tina is long since grown and has never been good at keeping in touch.

I myself regard Sally and Tina as "family": my niece's beloved kin. (We all watched Tina grow up; how can we not care for her?) In any case, I don't like to let go of relationships. I also regard some of my friends as "family".

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

One of my cousins is a professional genealogist, and through her work I've gotten to know people I might not think of as "family for Thanksgiving dinner" (like about half of Essex County NJ). [Smile]

And speaking of Thanksgiving, my sister hosts every year and is not stingy with the invitations.

I guess I like the idea of extending the concept beyond the closest blood ties.

sabine

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

Sorry, missed edit window. Another cousin has also done quite a bit if genealogy, which has been helpful for my desire to have a large extended group of relatives. Most of the people in that side have different names because patronymics were practiced in Scandinavian countries for so long. It would be difficukt to know who was a relative without the research.

I guess I fall into a more the merrier category

sabine

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

If the person was around for a significant part of my childhood, I think of them as family, even if they were relatives by marriage and the marriage has been dissolved.

Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :

We meet for a "Cuzzies' Lunch" every six weeks or so. It began as the remainder of my generation who live in or around the city. Gradually some of the next generation joined in, then the former wife of a late cousin (her mother-in-law must have been very chatty as she's produced family stories we hadn't heard). The family genealogist who started it (now deceased) had discovered a second cousin who came along with his wife who was even more interested than he was, and continued to join in after he'd gone.
So that's family.
But while my daughter has added three children to our branch of the family, my son and his wife were not able to have children but fostered three of a family then aged 12-15. They are great kids and have done well but I know that to my son, now their legal guardian, they are as much family as his own offspring would have been, but I can't quite feel for them in that way.
But they are family just as much as the other 'bits and pieces' I've included.

GG

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

This thread is a lot like the "friends you don't like" thread, trying to give concrete, binary definitions to subjective, fluid relationships that exist on a continuum. "Family" is just such a term. There are people we are connected to in all sorts of ways and to all sorts of degrees. There's close family and distant family, and a 1000s different degrees between.

If you're in relationship with them, communicate with them, spend holidays with them then they're definitely in the "family" category. If not, they're probably "distantly related". Where the lines draw is going to vary for everyone.

I had a professor once who said something to the effect of "whatever you define as 'family', hang on to it as long as you can". He wasn't suggesting that there aren't toxic relations that we do have to disengage with. But he was also acknowledging that we need family, we need to be connected to people, even imperfect people who are irritating and challenging and needy. So I think the effort to get to precise about defining what is/isn't family is misguided. If there's a reason you're connected, no matter what it is, celebrate and cherish it if it's at all possible.

Posted by Carex (# 9643) on :

"Family" is a flexible word, and often the meaning depends on the application. Growing up it meant just my siblings and parents sharing a house. ("Relatives" included at most another 25 people.) But since getting married, and my generation having children, often with different partners, the term gets a much wider application.

It was explained to me that in Hawaii, getting divorced and remarried meant doubling your "family", as that extended to both current and prior partners, step-children, cousins, etc. Basically, anyone with whom you had developed some sort of relationship with was still considered part of the family, regardless of changes in the original connection.

Since many folks in our tree have been married (or partnered) 3 or more times, our "family" gatherings might include a whole range of cousins, siblings-in-law, a couple unofficially-adopted African "children", folks who lived as part of the family at various times of their lives, etc. One person I described as my "brother-in-law-in-law" to mutual friends, rather than trying to identify the exact connection. Mostly, attendance is determined by physical proximity and ability to attend rather than some strict definition of "family".

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I use the term pretty generally. I often talk of my ‘Church family’

And we do behave as family - shared meals, visits, weekends away etc.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
This thread is a lot like the "friends you don't like" thread, trying to give concrete, binary definitions to subjective, fluid relationships that exist on a continuum.

It can also be very heavily influenced by culture. In some cultures close friends can be regarded the same as cousins.

Posted by Tortuf (# 3784) on :

The only grandfather I knew on my paternal side was not related to be by blood. He married my grandmother after my "real" grandfather died and well before I was born.

What I can tell you is that he acted in every way that is important like my grandfather. I considered him to be my grandfather and he considered me to be his grandson.

The experience has significantly impacted my views on what constitutes family.

Think about adoptions. There may be no blood relationship at all. Yet, as a matter of law - and hopefully fact - the adopted child is family in a very real sense.

Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :

The Welsh King Hywel Dda reckoned if you could trace your kinship within 7 degrees, then you were related. Therefore, my grandmother's sister's sister in law was, correctly, Aunty May.
On the other hand, my cousin is actually no blood relation as my father was informally adopted, and she is the daughter of his "sister".
When I was growing up, it was customary to call your parent's friends Aunty or Uncle. There are certain people I still do - I could never call them by their Christian name, and calling them Mrs .. would be far too formal.
The children of my college friends grew up calling Darllenwr and I Aunty and Uncle, which lasted until they were into their teens. One of my friends told me a lovely story of how her daughter put Lord Ontivillian on a family tree in a school project as a cousin, because she called us Aunty and Uncle and had to travel a long way (Nottingham to South Wales) to see us!

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
This thread is a lot like the "friends you don't like" thread, trying to give concrete, binary definitions to subjective, fluid relationships that exist on a continuum.
It can also be very heavily influenced by culture. In some cultures close friends can be regarded the same as cousins.

Agreed. I think it's partly as a result of my Bangladeshi heritage that I draw the family circle very widely. And wouldn't struggle to define a relationship in a complicated way - once you get beyond immediate family, everyone is aunty/uncle or cousin - even if, the real relationship is second cousin third times removed or whatever.

Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :

I come from a Southern family with ancestors who arrived in the 17th century and obeyed the injunction to be fruitful and multiply, at least in the early years. I have, as a consequence, met fifth cousins, although most with whom I correspond are second to third.

It's actually quite handy. If you're fond of one another, you can say, "Oh, yes, that's my cousin." If you're not, you can, "Oh, yes, I think we're related somehow."

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

NOT my blood relatives - we have little in common and rarely see each oither.

My 'family' consists of my friends.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Blood relatives, and the " family of choice or by adoption" aka friends. I do Actually have a first cousin twice , and one three times removed - the grandson of a first cousin. Now about three years old.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Any relative in my family who is not easily described eg. sister, aunt is a 'cousin'. We therefore have rather a lot of cousins in my family. but it saves us having to get round a lot of 'first/second removed', 'by marriage', or 'half/step this or that' terminology.

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

Essex NJ? We are probably related!

Posted by sabine (# 3861) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Essex NJ? We are probably related!

I will call you family!

sabine

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I've never been all that bothered about family. A lot of mine were pains in the bum, and I got away from them at 18. What a relief! Is this abnormal? My niece is living in Australia right now, and I suspect she is getting away from hers.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Re who is my family, it is any blood relatives and relatives by marriage. The first category is 13 people (I expect it will be 12 this year). Relatives by marriage includes people like my wife's brother's sister-in-law's family, because when you have very few relatives like we do you must collect people from somewhere so your holidays aren't lonely.

It probably sounds weird to contemplate informally adopting some young adults (in 20s and early 30s) as additional family so as to have grandchildren and to not be lonely, and to provide them with support as well.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

quote:
It probably sounds weird to contemplate informally adopting some young adults (in 20s and early 30s) as additional family so as to have grandchildren and to not be lonely, and to provide them with support as well.

I'm not sure that's so very weird. I have older friends - almost old enough to just about be my parent, but met in a context where we regard ourselves as more or less contemporaries. The couple most in my mind have lots of kids of their own - but they've been very welcoming in including us too, as have their kids on occasions.

Thinking about it, my parents have made friends in church who are about my age, and Mum especially has honorary granny duties etc. It's nice - especially when you live far apart, and especially when boring old historic personality shit means that a fresh start with a bit less intensity than 'real' family might offer some route to a functioning friendship of equals - which might be really, really hard to bring about late in life with the people you fought with for all those years. Well, while it lasts, you know.

Posted by Tukai (# 12960) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
I think it's partly as a result of my Bangladeshi heritage that I draw the family circle very widely. And wouldn't struggle to define a relationship in a complicated way - once you get beyond immediate family, everyone is aunty/uncle or cousin - even if, the real relationship is second cousin third times removed or whatever. [/QB]

Same in Fiji. Actually the Fijian language has very precise terms that distinguish (for example) between the son of my mother's elder brother and the son of my father's younger sister etc.

But all are rendered into English as cousin/ uncle/auntie/ niece or nephew depending on the relative ages of those concerned. Also "Aunt" and "Uncle" are often used as courtesy terms about (or even more so , directly) to older people as a sign of respect.

Posted by Puzzler (# 18908) on :

Just after the Christmas and New Year festivities my granddaughter and I calculated that they had seen a total of seven, or was it eight? sets of “grandparents” of various sorts. Only one of those couples were both true blood grandparents. The rest included the mum and partner of their mum’s second husband, many more “steps” and even the ( other) grandparents of their first cousins.
They considered them all to be family.

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