Ship of Fools: Windows 10

Thread: Windows 10 Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=005485

Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on :

Until yesterday I used Windows 8. Despite the many complaints this has garnered, I could use it; it worked for me. Then I had an invitation to upgrade for free to Windows 10. This sounded like a bargain and so I did.......

When I go on line now my list of favourite websites has disappeared. ALL of them are gone.

I can no longer set a homepage.

Outlook Express no longer allows me to send attachments with emails.

That's in less than 24 hrs. Has anyone else discovered lurking horrors in the new system?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

What a surprise, "free" gift from M$ turns out to be shite.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

I thought MS had stopped supporting Outlook Express and were no longer shipping it with Windows (I think XP was the last version with it). They now provide Windows Mail instead. I think some people would have been surprised Outlook Express worked on Win8.

In my experience all internet browsers allow you to import favourite lists, though I hear there's a new browser in Win10. If the Win10 browser doesn't allow that, then get Chrome or something instead. Then just import the favourites list from the backup of your system you made before upgrading. You did make a backup and restore disk so that you could easily go back to Win8 if you wanted, right?

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

I'm reliably informed it sends all your personal data to Microsoft headquarters, too. You might want to check that...

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

I installed Windows 10 on the day of release and it's mostly be fine. Edge has an import favourites button but I don't use favourites so I don't know if it works. As for Outlook Express: I hate to tell you but it's not 1998 any more.

The bigger issue for me is that the Windows 10 release of the drivers for my graphics card don't work so I had to install an older version which work fine. Oh, and before I could install it at all I had to unplug my second hard drive.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

Windows couldn't find a driver for my printer and I was 'reliably' told that there wasn't one, and it was just tough. However, when I went looking I found it, and my printer is working properly now (which is unusual in itself).

I've barely noticed the difference between 8 and 10. I had 8 set up so that I wasn't overly bothered by the things that other people were complaining about, and 10 seems pretty much the same, although I don't seem to be able to choose precisely the same shade of green as my background colour. That's my biggest gripe, but I expect I'll eventually be able to come to terms with it.

I have heard that Toshiba users are having more problems than most, particularly with drivers, but as my Toshiba machine is sitting happily with XP I haven't any direct experience.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

I read several reviews that said MS is taking over your computer, reading the content of your emails, tracking your keystrokes, and preventing you from opting out of any updates they want to send.

Here's an article warning about privacy issues and mentioning in passing ads added to some programs including solitaire (you can buy ad free solitaire).

OTOH Lifehacker thinks it's no big deal if only because the new MS aggressive info collecting is what your existing browser, phone and aps are already doing. If you care about privacy, you stay off line.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

It's easy to be caught out by MS's greedy desire for your info while you're upgrading, but it's quite straightforward to go through your privacy settings afterwards and deny MS access to just about everything.

Annoying, though.

Posted by Touchstone (# 3560) on :

Not very hellish but if you click on the "three dots" (FK what it's meant to be) menu at the top right of edge you can select "open with internet explorer", you should then get internet explorer with all your favourites intact. You can then pin internet explorer to the taskbar and get rid of "Edge" (seems to be sort of like Chrome but not as good. Why???)

Been using Windows 10 for a few days and it seems to slightly less of a pile of steaming crap than W8. It sort of has a start button at least.

Would still be using XP if I could.

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :

I don't know about Outlook Express - we use the full-fat version - but for reference, to import your favourites into Edge:

click on the 'more' (...) button

click on settings

click on 'import favourites from another browser'

etc

To set your homepage:

Click on the more (...) button

Click on settings

Click on open with

Click on 'a specific page or pages'

Go to 'custom' on the drop-down menu

Enter the web address you want and remove MSN unless you want it as a second homepage.

Right, back to Hell: TICTH the fact that Windows 10 doesn't have a DVD player unless you already had a WMC account. [Mad]

We didn't and our television has turned up its toes.

If anyone could suggest a free alternative that doesn't bring crapware onto the computer with it, I'd be most unhellishly grateful!

I also CTH the fact that Windows 10 is not intuitive. [Mad]

They ran a beta version for long enough to have sorted that.

And <howl of anguish> Solitaire didn't come with Win10 either!! The game you can link to is rubbish!!

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Touchstone:
Would still be using XP if I could.

I'm still using XP for several reasons - old pc, compatibility with other older software, no reason to change if everything still works ok. Not planning to change unless I absolutely have to.

(And I hate that version of Office that insists you have to have that stupid ribbon and docx files and ties formerly easy-to-find menu options up in inaccessible depths.)

I'd attempt a System Restore if the new system didn't work for me - not entirely sure if it would reverse an entire operating system installation but may be worth a try?

[ 07. August 2015, 20:23: Message edited by: Ariel ]

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bene Gesserit:
And <howl of anguish> Solitaire didn't come with Win10 either!! The game you can link to is rubbish!!

We tried to teach my grandmother how to play computer solitaire, sort of an intro to computers to someone who never had any reason to use one in her entire life.

Within five minutes she declared that actual cards were just fine.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

tangental word to the wise: if someone in your office mentions Office 365 just back away, slowly, taking your laptop with you.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

I'd attempt a System Restore if the new system didn't work for me - not entirely sure if it would reverse an entire operating system installation but may be worth a try?

You can revert to your previous version of Windows for a month afterwards - I don't know how, but it's a part of the Windows 10 deal.

If you use something like System GoBack before you upgrade you can go back at any time.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

I'm probably painting a target on my ass here, but I like it. It improves a lot that was wrong with 8.1, it's sleek and quick and it looks good. Edge, I think, is a work in progress, but I'm a Chrome fan anyway, so I might look at it again after a few rounds of updates.

I didn't have any problem with 10 getting rid of my programs, apps, favourites and suchlike - the upgrade went surprisingly smoothly for me.

And I'm loving the voice-control slave. "Hey Cortana," I'll say, "Play me some Beethoven" - and it does. I'm in Star Trek!

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bene Gesserit:
[...] Right, back to Hell: TICTH the fact that Windows 10 doesn't have a DVD player unless you already had a WMC account. We didn't and our television has turned up its toes.

If anyone could suggest a free alternative that doesn't bring crapware onto the computer with it, I'd be most unhellishly grateful! [...]

Here you go. And for BluRay films, here.

You're welcome.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
[...] And I'm loving the voice-control slave. "Hey Cortana," I'll say, "Play me some Beethoven" - and it does. I'm in Star Trek!

Mate, do you realise how much data they collect on you for just that silly gadget? Fucking pathetic (M$ 'privacy' statement).

Suggestions on increasing your privacy e.g. here (Huff Post). Very detailed instructions on privacy safeguard, including Fuckana, on TechRadar.

Stop being naive.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Why go through a window if you don't have to. Win 10 is a security nightmare. An operating system is like a language, like English or Swahili, by definition free.

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

The geeks I use to sort my computer when Things Go Wrong suggested in their newsletter that unless you need it specifically or can sort stuff out for yourself, don't be an early adapter, but wait until some of the wrinkles are ironed out.

Works for me, but then I probably would have been quite happy if Windows 98 was still operational.

Huia

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

Yep. As I sed here.

This is a gift horse whose choppers definitely need VERY close inspection. Don't be fooled.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

Just this morning my computer has started showing pop-ups urging me to install Windows 10 free. I have Windows 7, and I'm getting along just fine.

I wonder why they want me to change.

Moo

Posted by Tortuf (# 3784) on :

I just installed Windows 10. I can tell you for a fact that it is a dangerous, very very bad, program. For instance, I keep typing brilliant - world changing - things in my posts here and Windows 10 converts them to ordinary drivel.

How that happens in beyond me.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

Well, they want you to bleat, no longer too moo, it's as easy as that!!

Sorry, H&As, yet another link: 'How to remove Win 10 Upgrade nag', but this is M$ Hell for people concerned.

You can/should uninstall this update, named KB3035583, and then restart, but it'll try to get installed again - best switch to 'manual installation' (not automatic) for M$ Windows Updates and when it shows again, rightclick and 'hide'.

From what I see, there may be a few other Windows Updates that will push for Win 10 installion, but the nag screen is that one. Bastids!!

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
Mate, do you realise how much data they collect on you for just that silly gadget? Fucking pathetic (M$ 'privacy' statement).

Suggestions on increasing your privacy e.g. here (Huff Post). Very detailed instructions on privacy safeguard, including Fuckana, on TechRadar.

Stop being naive.

Well duh! Of course it collects all that stuff - how the hell else is it supposed to work? I used to work in IT and I've a pretty good grasp on how these things work, thanks very much. But I also know that if I share my opinion with Cortana that my MP is a pointless Blairite tosser, I'm not going to get dragged off to the gulag any time soon.

I think I'm less naive than you are paranoid.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
Just this morning my computer has started showing pop-ups urging me to install Windows 10 free. I have Windows 7, and I'm getting along just fine.

I wonder why they want me to change.

Moo

Is Bill Gates in any way connected to the Sea Org?

Just a casual question. i wanted to contribute to the Geek Storm going on here, but I haven't set my Duolingo account for "IT Gibberish" yet.

Jeez, you people.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Oh, and Win 10 ate my task bar yesterday. And for some reason it has been fucking with my Angry Birds Friends graphics, so it's like trying to play ping pong submerged in a sea of molasses. That is unacceptable.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Is Bill Gates in any way connected to the Sea Org? [...]

It's sea-lly season. And it needs to be org-anised.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
[...] I also know that if I share my opinion with Cortana that my MP is a pointless Blairite tosser, I'm not going to get dragged off to the gulag any time soon. [...]

I agree. Not as long as there is a Russia-hating Tory government.

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
[...] I think I'm less naive than you are paranoid.

I love paranoia. It keeps me sane. And makes life much more interesting.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Many moons ago, probably in the days when I used 98, my neighbour had a tenant who was a trained MS engineer. He warned me, back then, of ways that I could be accessed by MS. Can't remember what they were - I think probably using their help, or downloading add-ons. So nothing new.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I'm not sure what to do, I keep looking at that little flag shaped window and wondering whether to go for it. I hated windows 8 and got my new laptop with windows 7. If it's anything like 8 I don't want it ...

Posted by The Rhythm Methodist (# 17064) on :

Originally posted by Boogie:

quote:
I'm not sure what to do, I keep looking at that little flag shaped window and wondering whether to go for it. I hated windows 8 and got my new laptop with windows 7. If it's anything like 8 I don't want it ...

Like you, I was happy enough with W7, though I reserved a copy of W10. I have already talked myself out of downloading it, though. Too many opportunities for new niggles, regrets and irritations....and not enough hard evidence of positive improvement. But I remember feeling exactly that way about the mobile telephone. Not that I was necessarily wrong on that subject!

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Does Windows 10 have distinct advantages you'd find it useful to have?

Does your existing software not work properly/give you enough hassle to contemplate the upheaval of installing a new operating system?

If you can answer Yes to both, then upgrade. If you can't answer Yes to both, then ask yourself what benefit you think an upgrade would bring.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

It mucks around with your file permissions - there's a long thread on the windows help forum about it. Plenty of temporary solutions, all of which seem to fail once you turn off your PC. At least for me.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

The wife still has a machine that runs Vista. At least, in theory - it probably hasn't been powered up in 3 years. She's fully transitioned to doing everything on i-devices or my Mac.

BUT, but... with the amount of whining going on, I'm tempted to build something to run Windows 2ª. Just to see what the fuss is about. And to reaffirm that I'm cleverer than everybody else here.

ª Wait, you mean it's NOT in binary? Oh. I thought Satya Nadella was being funny.

Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

It's always worth waiting for the first service pack, but I think I read that MS aren't doing them for W10 and are doing their upgrades like Android.

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

It lured me into creating a Microsoft account, then kindly (but without telling me) made *that* the login for the whole computer when I turn it on. Which is diabolical liberty enough, but would have been less hellish if I hadn't then forgotten the precise password I created. (It was a rude message about Microsoft, with the required character count and mix of upper/lower case and symbols.) So I had to boot up the laptop to go online and change the password before I could get back onto the main computer.

Just typed a whole paragraph of further gripes and deleted it. Microsoft's newly proprietary attitude is the big one, bringing it within a gnat's whisker of Apple for sheer contempt of customers as people able to make their own choices.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

So, what you are saying is Microsoft's problem is marketing.
Apple sheeple often praise the very things you decry.
Just drink the koolaid like they did.

Side note: Why does Google draw fewer complaints? They are as, if not more, pernicious. Every product wishes to be tied to an account.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

You don't have to have a Microsoft account - I don't (actually, I do have one, but I don't use it for logging on to my computer, or for anything else for that matter).

I'm afraid I can't remember how I got out of its tentacles, but I did so immediately after getting my first Windows 8 laptop, and it has learned to accept it and not bug me. Windows 10 never asked me to use it.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Happy as a clam at a bar mitzvah with 7 Pro. Won't change until they entirely stop supporting it. And maybe not even then. There are a few key applications I must have the Windows versions of (or there are no Linux versions at all) or I'd go Mint. (Like going plaid, only leaves your mouth feeling fresher.)

So, no 10 for me for the foreseeable future.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
It mucks around with your file permissions - there's a long thread on the windows help forum about it. Plenty of temporary solutions, all of which seem to fail once you turn off your PC. At least for me.

Cracked it.

Short version. You have to change the permissions as Administrator, not User, and as User you have to give permission for Administrator to change permissions. Logging in as Administrator is not trivial but there is an online link which will tell you how to do that.

Not Hellish, I know, but it might help some poor soul. PM me if you're stuck with this problem and need more detail on the fix.

Classic Microsoft. They make an inadvertent change (no doubt for a good reason) then leave it to the poor bloody users to work their way through the maze of conflicting, confusing, and often contradictory advice.

I used to do this sort of stuff for a living ...

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :

Win10 + videos - YouTube, iPlayer etc [Mad]

YouTube plays ok on Firefox but not on Edge. I watched one hour-long programme in iPlayer earlier but now it won't play at all.

Oh - and webcams from tourist destinations like the one where we used to live and which I still look at nostalgically don't work either...

Windows 10 - I strongly recommend against it. Sh*t it.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Happy as a clam at a bar mitzvah with 7 Pro. Won't change until they entirely stop supporting it. And maybe not even then. There are a few key applications I must have the Windows versions of (or there are no Linux versions at all) or I'd go Mint. (Like going plaid, only leaves your mouth feeling fresher.)

So, no 10 for me for the foreseeable future.

What do you need to do that Mint won't? (or another modern Linux distro)

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
The wife still has a machine that runs Vista.

You're trying to pull our leg. There is not and has never been in the history of the world such a thing as a machine that runs Vista.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Can Linux run windows applications and utilities? I'm tied to MS by various small company applications designed for windows only.

Of course one is eventually forced to re-buy everything just because OS upgrades result in application upgrades and files are no longer compatible with older versions. But for now I'm still happily on a XP netbook and a Vista laptop.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Windows is not Linux. Most applications for Linux are free and open source. Some Window$ programs will run within Linux. Some programs are written to run on any platform.

Many people seem to want a Windoze program because they like it, not being prepared to use an open source alternative which runs on anything. People are welcome to pay to buy an operating system and applications. They are also welcome to use free things. The choice is yours.

Mostly I use Linux packages for everything. The things that are closed source and Windows I run with Wine and the only thing I actually use Windows for is a GPS, for which I use WinXP running basically as a Linux application inside free VirtualBox.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:

Many people seem to want a Windoze program because they like it, not being prepared to use an open source alternative which runs on anything.

Because they are not as good. Sorry, they are not. Some are very good, but there are always problems.

Question for the Vista users: Why? Win 7 will run on those machines with much more stability.

Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

Sorry,
For our Toshiba satellite 300 Windows 7 will run but the graphics and audio drivers have not been created so you are reduced to basic graphics (800x640) and external/usb audio (but not my Soundblaster Extigy as there are no drivers for that after Vista).

Linux (and probably BSD) always seem to have the drivers.

The real deterrent for me is not being able to get pre-installed PCs and some incompatibilities between MsOffice and Open Source versions if there is complex formatting. So I generally use a form of Linux (Scientific Linux at the moment) but I have a windows machine for that software that won't run on Linux or Mac.

Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

For the same reason I am not upgrading my Academy's
BenQ Joybook Vista machine to Win 7. It does not pass the Microsoft Win7 upgrade test.

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:

Many people seem to want a Windoze program because they like it, not being prepared to use an open source alternative which runs on anything.
Because they are not as good. Sorry, they are not. Some are very good, but there are always problems.

But not as many as you might think.

Most of the "problems" arise from the simple fact the alternative programs do things slightly differently - it's just a small question of learning how the new program does things, rather than demanding that it works exactly the same as MS.

Unless you are doing something really esoteric with spreadsheets or presentations, the vast majority of people could easily use an alternative, free program if they wanted to.

I have never used MS Office. At present I use OpenOffice - I have never found that I couldn't do what I needed to do.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Often the location of the problem is Windoze. Specifically we have idiocy like docx format that took several weeks for Open/Libre Office to work through. Microshoddy had violated the terms of open doc formats to do it but were able to get around it for some fudgey reason I cannot be bothered to recall. We have same things with hardware periodically with hardware makers keeping things secret due to agreements with M$ and it taking a while to sort out what they have obfuscated. Again the problem is viagra for the micro soft.

Whenever someone says that opensource is not as good and they want to pay for something, who wants to quarrel anyway? Let them, they already know everything. Some want real ale, some prefer fizzy koolaid.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:

I have never used MS Office. At present I use OpenOffice - I have never found that I couldn't do what I needed to do.

I have cow-orkers who produce fancy excel spreadsheets with a whole pile of scripting and stuff, and expect me to be able to manipulate them. This forces me to have MS Office available.

Similarly, others expect me to be able to contribute a couple of powerpoint slides to their presentation, and Impress just isn't quite compatible enough.

Office aside, I think everything else I do day-to-day I could do with linux. The last time I seriously considered running linux on my work machine, I needed a set of compiler tools for a particular microprocessor that only existed on Windows, so I couldn't switch then, and I'm now stuck with my existing Windows 7 via inertia.

The machine will become obsolete before Windows 7 stops being supported - I'll see what happens then. A lot of the linux folks around here have gone Mac in the last few years, but I'm not terribly convinced.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Often the location of the problem is Windoze.

And often the problem is the free program. Look, I am not an Office fan. There are many issues with it. But it is the standard. I use Open Office as well as MS Office, and I know which one is more powerful, which one I have fewer issues sharing documents with other people.

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:

I have never used MS Office. At present I use OpenOffice - I have never found that I couldn't do what I needed to do.

I've never driven a Ferrari, but I'm quite certain my Robin Reliant is just as good.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
What do you need to do that Mint won't? (or another modern Linux distro)

Microsoft Office.

quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
some incompatibilities between MsOffice and Open Source versions if there is complex formatting.

Bingo.

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Whenever someone says that opensource is not as good and they want to pay for something, who wants to quarrel anyway? Let them, they already know everything. Some want real ale, some prefer fizzy koolaid.

Oh please, grow the fuck up. Somebody doesn't agree with you so they're a childish blow-hard. Who's being the know-it-all here? Just you.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I need to have OpenOffice because people send me stuff in docx and my old version of Windows won't open it.

And I don't do enough stuff in anything to justify the expense of upgrading.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Often the location of the problem is Windoze.
And often the problem is the free program. Look, I am not an Office fan. There are many issues with it. But it is the standard. I use Open Office as well as MS Office, and I know which one is more powerful, which one I have fewer issues sharing documents with other people.

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:

I have never used MS Office. At present I use OpenOffice - I have never found that I couldn't do what I needed to do.
I've never driven a Ferrari, but I'm quite certain my Robin Reliant is just as good.

But the problem is, MS office isn't a Ferrari, and Open Office/Libre Office isn't a Reliant Robin. It's more like a Vauxhall Insignia v a Ford Mondeo. They are broadly similar, do similar things and in similar ways, but differ slightly in detail. Now I,personally, find Open Office a delight to use when compared with MS office. It's intuitive, with a comprehensible menu structure, and I've never experienced a file which MS Office will open that can't also be opened in Libre Office. (maybe MS Publisher - but I don't think normal Office will open those files either.)

But it's very much horses for courses. My thinking is that the two systems are of equal power, but some will choose one over the other, either way. Are there real practical advantages to MS Office, I'll take your word for it that there are, but I suspect aesthetic preferences have some say in things as well. I quite like the pared-back look of Libre, whilst, to my eyes, Office looks garish and somewhat clever-clever, with a lot of "because we can" about it. YMMV

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
But the problem is, MS office isn't a Ferrari, and Open Office/Libre Office isn't a Reliant Robin.

Hyperbole, but the general point remains.
MS Office is more powerful IME.
Yes, it is also a bit bloated.

I like reasonable choice.
I LOATHE the direction Adobe is going with there lease-only policy. But Photoshop is a superior product to GIMP.
Really don't understand why anyone thinks software should be free. Do they themselves do their own job for free?
It does not then follow that I think rapacious prices and monopolies are then good.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Mousethief, I like you. But when they requested Office in my office, I priced it out. It was $ 8000 in licence fees. Libre Office cost nil. As a business owner, that's pretty significant. And that wasn't for the whole suite from MS just some of it. So I am fine with being a petulant idiot.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Mousethief, I like you. But when they requested Office in my office, I priced it out. It was $ 8000 in licence fees. Libre Office cost nil. As a business owner, that's pretty significant. And that wasn't for the whole suite from MS just some of it. So I am fine with being a petulant idiot.

I'm not a business owner. I'm a schoolteacher who needs to work with files from the district, and I'm a writer who needs to create print-ready documents for my POD print company. OpenOffice just doesn't cut it. Difference is, I don't go around gratuitously insulting people who don't come to the same conclusions that I do. I may not be the brightest knife in the six-pack, but I'm not nearly stupid enough to go that far.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

The frustration is cost and deliberate Microsoft strategies to fo things with file formats to make alternatives not work. A a teacher, your school or board is paying for the programs via taxes and / or fees. It's not you paying, understood. It looks like free in such situations.

Insulting? It is hell. It is normal here.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

To go back to the original topic;
There was a Windows 10 update that causes endless rebotting When it fails, it reboots and tries to load the update again.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

@ lilBuddha.

I don't think that programs necessarily should be free, but if a free product is available that meets my requirements, and is in some ways superior to the price-inflated product of some vastly wealthy corporation, then that's good in my book. If there is no financial transaction involved, it's a pretty good sign that there is no stash of freshly ground ax(e) heads hidden in the coder's back room.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
@ lilBuddha.

I don't think that programs necessarily should be free, but if a free product is available that meets my requirements, and is in some ways superior to the price-inflated product of some vastly wealthy corporation, then that's good in my book. If there is no financial transaction involved, it's a pretty good sign that there is no stash of freshly ground ax(e) heads hidden in the coder's back room.

Sorry, the free comment was aimed at no prophet.
If a group wishes to offer a free product that I find useful, I will use it.
And I do think that Apple and Microsoft* price things higher than necessary because they can. But there are smaller companies which produce good software at reasonable prices. That is my preferred setup.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Insulting? It is hell. It is normal here.

This kind of insulting is also normal among my 13 year old students. That doesn't make it adult.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
To go back to the original topic;
There was a Windows 10 update that causes endless rebotting When it fails, it reboots and tries to load the update again.

That German group Kraftwerk were right all along then: We are the rebotts, dom dom dee-dom.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I'm more than a bit peeved that we still need to learn new OS versions. It's 2015, where's my robot butler?

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Windows 10 caused our laptop to jam up for a few days. It had a blue band with "catana and start up menu are not working". We couldn't get past it until my computer literate son sorted it.

He reckoned it was the anti-spy - wear not recognising W 10. Odd that it worked for a couple weeks and then rejected it.

Blooming putes, personally I don,t understand them and trust them even less [Paranoid]

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Unknown as to whether this works or is useful if you don't care about it.

"Want Windows 10 to stop tracking you? Now there's an app for that.(The open-source app is available to download for free.)"

Apparently thought by some to be needed because

quote:
Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary.

The link above indicates that you can do some things to prevent your info from being uploaded to Microsoft

quote:
Don’t Use Express Settings During Setup

During installation, Microsoft will encourage you to accept its “express install” defaults. Without exceptions, these defaults will result in the maximum sharing of your information with Microsoft. Instead, select the “custom install” option,

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Unknown as to whether this works or is useful if you don't care about it.

"Want Windows 10 to stop tracking you? Now there's an app for that.(The open-source app is available to download for free.)"

I got all excited, but I can't run it because it's telling me I can only run it as administrator, and I am already logged in as administrator. [Frown]

(But thank you!)

[ 15. August 2015, 19:24: Message edited by: Drifting Star ]

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

I take that back - I've got it to run. I missed the point that a small but very vital click was 'right' rather than 'left'.

I'll let you know if there's anything to know.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I need to have OpenOffice because people send me stuff in docx and my old version of Windows won't open it.

My version of Word won't open it either. There are sites online that will convert these docxs free of charge for you if upgrading isn't worth it (which it isn't for me and I don't want the version with the ribbon anyway).

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

An interesting article says that Even when set to not communicate Microsoft still phones home with Windows 10

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
My version of Word won't open it either.

Have you downloaded the free Office 7 conversion tool from Microsoft? I'm happily running Office 2003 (Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Access all in the 2003 versions) with the conversion tool, and it hasn't yet encountered an uplevel file it can't open. Well, OK, one or two Word 2010 files, but happily they can be opened just fine in Wordpad.

Posted by Philip Charles (# 618) on :

Tails 1.5.1 has been released. Suitable for the paranoid.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Tails won't help if you have a Lenovo computer: Lenovo caught installing immortal crapware

Posted by TomM (# 4618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Tails won't help if you have a Lenovo computer: Lenovo caught installing immortal crapware

That report implies it is software for Windows that Lenovo add? If that is the case, you presumably nullify it by using any Linux distro?

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

Pfft - Microsoft's lack of online privacy is nothing compared to what happens in their physical stores.

The other day I went into one of their shops and, although I had tried to protect my anonymity by means of a black mask over my face, I was horrified to realise that the shop assistants could still watch all of my movements throughout the shop, down to the level of which aisle I walked down and what products I looked at. They refused point-blank to blindfold themselves and when I tried to brute-force them to clear their memory cache by means of a lump hammer, I was bundled into the back of a police van by some overzealous security hardware.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

[Killing me]

Posted by Philip Charles (# 618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Tails won't help if you have a Lenovo computer: Lenovo caught installing immortal crapware
TomM
That report implies it is software for Windows that Lenovo add? If that is the case, you presumably nullify it by using any Linux distro?

Linux definitely will not run these programmes.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

The touchpad on my laptop doesn't work properly after downloading Windows 10.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Tails won't help if you have a Lenovo computer: Lenovo caught installing immortal crapware

I thought that was a typo, and you meant "immoral" rather than "immortal". Turns out it meant both.

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

It seems to me that Hell is altogether much too nice a place for this discussion. If I had my way there would be a separate board called 'Microsoft'.

It also seems to me, after much observation, that Mac people are happier people, so he who counsels me on matters electronical has been instructed to begin the transformation at his earliest convenience. Before it's too late.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Pfft - Microsoft's lack of online privacy is nothing compared to what happens in their physical stores.

The other day I went into one of their shops and, although I had tried to protect my anonymity by means of a black mask over my face, I was horrified to realise that the shop assistants could still watch all of my movements throughout the shop, down to the level of which aisle I walked down and what products I looked at. They refused point-blank to blindfold themselves and when I tried to brute-force them to clear their memory cache by means of a lump hammer, I was bundled into the back of a police van by some overzealous security hardware.

I'm not sure whether this was purely for laughs or making a point. I'm going to be all bossy and assume the latter, and respond:

When you purchase goods from someone, you don't expect them to follow you home. In fact, most of us understand that the whole reason we are handing over money is to transfer the ownership of the goods - they belonged to the company, now they belong to you.

Certain kinds of businesses don't seem to quite comprehend this, or are trying to change it without us noticing. I notice it most in the world of music, where in fact there's always been a clear argument that the record company is not actually giving you the right to go ahead and make copies, but they're increasingly trying to push ideas that you haven't bought anything at all, you're just renting.

It's happening all over the place, though. Anything electronic in nature and with intangible elements is susceptible.

I actually think it's quite important that consumers push back against this, but I don't have much hope. People seem unaware of the issues until something goes badly wrong (such as when a book was withdrawn from sale, and Amazon unilaterally withdrew it from Kindles whereas anyone who had bought a physical copy wasn't forced to give it up).

One of the worst things is how companies can attempt to stop you from using things you have legitimately bought. There was a landmark court case in Australia some years ago about region coding. It was about Sony Playstation games I think, but the decision has significantly affected other kinds of region coding such as on DVD players.

Sony was trying to sue someone who had created a mod chip that allowed people to play out-of-region games, and they lost in our highest court. Basically, the judges said "you are trying to stop people from using legal software that they have legally bought" and wouldn't have a bar of it.

As a result, I know that a large proportion of DVD players sold in Australia are now multi-region (because it's perfectly legal for people to break the region coding anyway, so why spend extra time putting it on after the player is built in a factor in Japan or Germany or wherever), although they're still usually advertised as if they were Region 4 players.

This is the kind of pushback we need. If I buy something in a legal way, it shouldn't be anyone's business how I use it thereafter. I shouldn't have iTunes telling me I can't listen to music in a different country. I shouldn't have Microsoft or Lenovo insisting on knowing what I use my computer for. Once I've paid the requested price for a working product, that's the end of our relationship except for the limited situation where I approach them because the product is not working as it should.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I shouldn't have Microsoft or Lenovo insisting on knowing what I use my computer for. Once I've paid the requested price for a working product, that's the end of our relationship except for the limited situation where I approach them because the product is not working as it should.

A fine sub-rant, and I philosophically agree with it.

Aside from one tiny technicality: I'm pretty sure that included in the required license agreement that the Warlocks of Redmond are thereby granted exactly that right by every legitimate Windows user. For, you know, reasons.

Which is why it would be nice for such information-gathering "agreements" to be separate entities from the simple purchase of software. With accordingly reciprocations of benefit, probably remunerative.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

If you think Windows 10 is evil for sharing user information with Microsoft, you'll be interested to learn that Microsoft is porting the privacy leaks back to Windows 7 and 8

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I shouldn't have Microsoft or Lenovo insisting on knowing what I use my computer for. Once I've paid the requested price for a working product, that's the end of our relationship except for the limited situation where I approach them because the product is not working as it should.
A fine sub-rant, and I philosophically agree with it.

Aside from one tiny technicality: I'm pretty sure that included in the required license agreement that the Warlocks of Redmond are thereby granted exactly that right by every legitimate Windows user. For, you know, reasons.

Which is why it would be nice for such information-gathering "agreements" to be separate entities from the simple purchase of software. With accordingly reciprocations of benefit, probably remunerative.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying, that these sorts of things get put in license agreements and there ought to be a lot more pushback about that sort of thing being in license agreements.

When Microsoft (or anyone else) says that those kinds of features are "helpful", they mean helpful to them - not to me, the person who paid for a product. I've already given as much help to them as I should by filling their wallets. I'm offering them dollars as quid pro quo, not data.

I actually do agree to a fair degree of data-sharing, (and similarly for other companies I often allow them to send newsletters or tell them things they want to know). But it ought to be my choice, and it ought to be easy to say no.

[ 02. September 2015, 05:51: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

When you purchase goods from someone, you don't expect them to follow you home.

Yeah, that's another thing. By default our home was set up so that anyone could look in through the windows and see what we were doing. We couldn't just opt out, either - we had to buy and install third-party curtains.

Ok, smart-aleck comments aside, I actually agree with most of your post. The fundamental problem, as I see it, is with companies suddenly discovering and monetising rights that hitherto nobody suspected existed. Previously, beyond the physical copies themselves, the only right that inhered in a book that you could buy and sell was the right to copy it. Then somebody discovered there are rights to play music using specific proprietary software, or in specific regions, that can be granted or withheld.

'Discovered' is of course sarcasm - I think these rights are basically made up. By the same token, though, I suspect the idea that we have an absolute right to privacy and anonymity is also a very recent development. We don't see it invoked to nearly the same degree outside of new technology.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Actually, I'm living in a RL model of privacy issues. The place was designed with green spaces for leisure, such as children's play, with the backs of the houses overlooking them. To enable this, there were low fences and hedges that could be looked over from the houses. The fences and hedges are now 6ft, in some cases, higher - the home owners won't let the gardeners cut them. "I don't want people looking in my windows" said - or shouted - with aggression. (That the green spaces are little used, and certainly not by Peeping Toms, is irrelevant, and maybe they think that people behind their net curtains in the homes opposite are looking.) So there's an example of non-technology related concerns about privacy.

[ 02. September 2015, 15:19: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
The touchpad on my laptop doesn't work properly after downloading Windows 10.

Same here, and it got worse after the latest W10 update.

However, I have just downloaded the most recent touchpad driver from my laptop manufacturer's website, and all seems to be well again. [Big Grin]

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Microsoft is downloading windows10 on to your confuser even if you didn't opt in.

Microsoft is downloading Windows 10 to your machine 'just in case'

quote:
...despite not having 'reserved' a copy of Windows 10... had appeared on his system. He had no plans to upgrade and had not put in a reservation request....isn't this a bit presumptuous on Microsoft's part?

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

That article is seriously scarey/irritating. I've switched off automatic updates - don't know why it was on. And warned my friend who's on 8.1.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

I willingly and knowingly downloaded and installed Windows 10 and my broadband usage for that month was, on a conservative estimate, 13-14 GB higher than normal. Not a problem for me because we have an unlimited package, but that could have been a nasty surprise - even more so if it had been downloaded covertly.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
The touchpad on my laptop doesn't work properly after downloading Windows 10.
Same here, and it got worse after the latest W10 update.

However, I have just downloaded the most recent touchpad driver from my laptop manufacturer's website, and all seems to be well again.

Good to hear. I'll try that too.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
That article is seriously scarey/irritating. I've switched off automatic updates - don't know why it was on. And warned my friend who's on 8.1.

I did the same.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Sorted friend's machine, which only had one of the naughty updates in the update box, and none actually installed. Made sure my replacement 8.1 hybrid is set up properly.

And I'm going to check the update setting regularly.

It has interested me how many possible email and account names have been barred to me - all based on ideas such as "Nobody", "Notanaccount". There are lots of people determined not to let the Google/MS hackers have a handle on them.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Often the location of the problem is Windoze.
And often the problem is the free program. Look, I am not an Office fan. There are many issues with it. But it is the standard. I use Open Office as well as MS Office, and I know which one is more powerful, which one I have fewer issues sharing documents with other people.

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:

I have never used MS Office. At present I use OpenOffice - I have never found that I couldn't do what I needed to do.
I've never driven a Ferrari, but I'm quite certain my Robin Reliant is just as good.

Reliant fucking Robin. Unless you also refer to Mondeo Fords and A3 Audis.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

More spyware stuff it appears on a particular brand of windows PCs:
Lenovo caught with pre-installed tracking application for the third time

My question is that if one computer vendor is infiltrating windows computers with such things, are we certain that others aren't, and may be are just better at doing it?

I would want a packet filter on any windows computer I used, but I don't use windows except for a GPS map program, and it's winXP in a virtualizer (winXP runs like a program within Linux) and it doesn't have access to the internet.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I've just had to reinstall Firefox on my tablet, as Bing had established itself on the new tab screen, and the Blazer thing had got itself back on the computer. The first download I did brought a lot of other stuff with it, as well. It may have asked, but it was on a very tiny window in very tiny writing.

Posted by argona (# 14037) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
Just this morning my computer has started showing pop-ups urging me to install Windows 10 free. I have Windows 7, and I'm getting along just fine.

I wonder why they want me to change.

Moo

I wouldn't, if I had 7. As it was, I had Windows Fail - sorry, 8 - and 10 seems at least better so far, if only because I'm a mouse-driven dinosaur.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Reliant fucking Robin. Unless you also refer to Mondeo Fords and A3 Audis.

Oh, piss off and your lawn isn't worth walking across anyway.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Well if you can't be pedantic and bang on about the pointless little things that annoy you in Hell where the fuck can you?

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I have Windows 7 and will not be upgrading to 10.

Soon I'm going to give up on Windows entirely and 'Apple up' with iphone, ipad and mac book.

I'll let you know how this Granny Smith gets on with the big Apple!

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Well if you can't be pedantic and bang on about the pointless little things that annoy you in Hell where the fuck can you?

I thought that was everywhere, for people of advanced, erm, experience. [Razz]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Turns out that automatic downloading thing is set to get even pushier. With more automatically trying to install.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2430786/updategate-microsoft-is-now-installing-windows-10-by-default-in-windows-upda te

Bloody hell that's rude.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I had noticed that nagging had started again.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

The thing about Windows Update is that it is very easy to change the settings. If you're on a metered service where you need to keep an eye on your usage then it would make sense to select the "inform me but don't download" for all updates. Then when you have unlimited access (eg: at home with wifi through your broadband) you can make the decisions about what to download. Simples.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

I'm not surprised MS is doing this, unethical as it might be. They've got the very devil of a problem with all the Windows XP and IE 6 and whatnot stll scratching a living which is now the digital equivalent of a dead sheep in a water source; it's a breeding ground for all sorts of shite which can no longer be patched and maintained. They don't want this again in five years time when Windows 7 is out of extended support - they're hoping, I expect (and not unreasonably) that Vista will be dead and gone by then - which is why it's being offered to W7/8/8.1 only. They want as much as possible of the W7/8/8.1 worldwide estate moved onto 10 during the free period. By limiting the free period, they persuade people to allow their machines to be updated.

That's my reading, any road.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The thing about Windows Update is that it is very easy to change the settings. If you're on a metered service where you need to keep an eye on your usage then it would make sense to select the "inform me but don't download" for all updates. Then when you have unlimited access (eg: at home with wifi through your broadband) you can make the decisions about what to download. Simples.

Except I've read more than one claim that Windows Update is changing its settings back, unannounced.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

The only way to turn off automatic updates on Windows 10 is download another program - and that's to stop Windows 10 continually updating a program that hasn't worked.

The one that comes up as a current concern is the use of home PCs to download updates to other PCs.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Windows 10 is like being forced to eat all of your vegetables and still getting a spanking. We have banned it in my office. Windows 10 cannot connect to the server nor the office wifi.

Unless Microsoft can get into the mobile phone market at a decent percent of the market, they are probably doomed. Google is killing the Google Chrome operating system and moving everything to Android. The future is mobile not MS's forcefeeding bloat.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Windows 10 is like being forced to eat all of your vegetables and still getting a spanking.

That is actually Mac. Except Mac users will say they like vegetables and enjoy the spanking.

You wish to make a food analogy?
Microsoft is a massive restaurant who must cater to a variety of customers with different needs and desires. They've made an attempt at a menu which serves all the needs adequately, but some customers insist on their own variations and past sell-by date ingredients. The chef is trying new menu items without proper taste testing and the waitstaff are constantly recommending over-priced side dishes because this is where the money is made.

Linux is a limited-menu restaurant in which you bring your spices, veggies, recipes and cook half your meal. And, unless you pick the right main at the right time, odds are the meal won't be completely edible.

Apple is a pretentious bistro with one menu item: Tofu Steak. But this is OK, because we love tofu steak, everybody loves tofu steak, if they would but try it. Every day, every time, we love tofu steak. Tofu steak is the only thing we will ever eat. Until the menu is changed to tofu chicken because tofu chicken is the only thing we ever eat and ever wanted to.
Oh, and the chef yells at us because he made a mistake, we admit that we are at fault for noticing that mistake. We are ever so naughty for mentioning it. (Sorry, sorry, sir! Feature, not mistake, feature!)

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I have Windows 7 and will not be upgrading to 10.

Soon I'm going to give up on Windows entirely and 'Apple up' with iphone, ipad and mac book.

I'll let you know how this Granny Smith gets on with the big Apple!

And me. W7 was the last straw - months of misery with nothing working right. With a bit of luck the new Mac machine will be here this week, and to Microsoft, like the French Knight, "I fart in your general direction!"

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

We let the Mac computers and connect to server and network, but tell them two things: if you do an update and can't connect properly after, you will pay for any consultant time, and the slowness of the connection to the server is your computer's fault, not the server's. So I guess they get spanked more than once.

Linux is a lot like gluten-free or Coeliac disease friendly cuisine. If the meal contains contaminated ingredients, you get sick. The trick is to check the model number of the off-lease el-cheapo laptop before paying the $100 for it.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
We let the Mac computers and connect to server and network, but tell them two things: if you do an update and can't connect properly after, you will pay for any consultant time, and the slowness of the connection to the server is your computer's fault, not the server's.

Microsoft has mostly driven me away from Powerpoint by gratuitously rearranging things each time they publish a new edition. We got "upgraded" to Office 365, and I just can't be bothered to re-learn everything again. I can't bring myself to go Mac, though - MacOS annoys me for different reasons (mostly because it knows what I want, and I know it's wrong), and I work with too many people who send around excel spreadsheets full of macros and VBA, and expect them to work, to be able to throw away MS Office completely, which rules out linux.

I'd probably prefer linux on a laptop, with a Windows instance in VirtualBox for those times when I actually need Windows, but I don't think the computer security folks will be happy with a Windows instance that doesn't exist most of the time. So maybe it'll be between Windows 10 and Mac for what causes me least pain next time around.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Powerpoint 1997 was one of the most elegantly intuitive programs I've ever seen.

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

Lilbuddha: [Killing me]

I use a Mac for reasons too lengthy to explain. If you like paying a premium for a sleek elegant case and non-ironically funky icons that bounce up and down when their associated programmes want attention, then a Mac is great.

If you want to avoid counterintuitive design, aggressive commercial practices, DRM obstructiveness, being nagged about OS updates, or indeed physical flimsiness, then migrating to Apple is going to be a big disappointment ...

[ 02. November 2015, 09:15: Message edited by: Ricardus ]

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

Apple is a pretentious bistro with one menu item: Tofu Steak. But this is OK, because we love tofu steak, everybody loves tofu steak, if they would but try it. Every day, every time, we love tofu steak. Tofu steak is the only thing we will ever eat. Until the menu is changed to tofu chicken because tofu chicken is the only thing we ever eat and ever wanted to.

Well, my iphone is here. I have never had anything Apple before and I absolutely love it. It is incredibly intuitive and I haven't had to look up or ask one question - it's so obvious how everything works and connects.

I'm very much looking forward to Santa bringing my ipad and Mac- Book now [Yipee]

I must be a Tofu steak girl!!

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

The cost is enough to keep me off anything Apple.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
The cost is enough to keep me off anything Apple.

The person who convinced me was my DIL. She got one 5 years ago and it is as fast and efficient as it was the day she bought it.

They cost a lot but last far longer. Every one of my Windows laptops has got slower and slower, clunkier and clunkier.

Anyway - I will let you know if it was worth it!!

Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :

I've had a lot of success speeding up old and even not so old computers and fixing glitches using the windows recovery facility. It is in the control panel under security and maintenance.

There are various levels of refreshing you can do and I usually start with the lightest and work my way through the others if that doesn't work.

It's also worth running malwarebytes or similar occasionally.

It might be worth trying this on your old windows laptop and keeping it in reserve when your Macbook is up and running.

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

I know this is Hell, so I should just let this slide and then laugh like a bastard when someone wipes their machine, but do be aware that some of the 'recovery' tools are destructive, so check your backups first if you're not 100% sure of what you're doing.

Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :

Where's the fun in that? [Devil]

You are right, anything you want to keep should be stored somewhere else, cloud, memory stick, before you start.

I carefully stored all my photos in a memory stick then sometime later for reasons I forget I decided to format the stick before I had put all the photos back into the computer. To be fair that was not the computer's fault. [Hot and Hormonal]

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:

It might be worth trying this on your old windows laptop and keeping it in reserve when your Macbook is up and running.

Thanks Thyme, I will do that. We have an external hard drive and also cloud space to save precious files.

I will need to keep my laptop going as I have the latest Photoshop on it and don't want to buy it again for the Mac.

Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :

Things like Photoshop will have to be reinstalled after a recovery/refreshing process. So make sure you have all your product keys and so on.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:

They cost a lot but last far longer. Every one of my Windows laptops has got slower and slower, clunkier and clunkier.

Mine don't.

Posted by MarsmanTJ (# 8689) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:

quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:

It might be worth trying this on your old windows laptop and keeping it in reserve when your Macbook is up and running.
Thanks Thyme, I will do that. We have an external hard drive and also cloud space to save precious files.

I will need to keep my laptop going as I have the latest Photoshop on it and don't want to buy it again for the Mac.

The latest Photoshop is cross-platform compatible, isn't it? I have Creative Cloud, so I can use it anywhere, but I certainly have used it on my work PC and my home Mac.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

The program does not reside in the cloud, you still download a version for your operating system. The common bit they share is you still must sign over your soul to Adobe.
If you have the last stand-alone versions, you are allowed multiple installs, but I'm not sure if that includes multiple platforms.
Adobe deserves their own Hell thread.

[ 03. November 2015, 13:17: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Microsoft Admits Windows 10 Automatic Spying Cannot Be Stopped

quote:
...despite offering some options to turn elements of tracking off, core data collection simply cannot be stopped:....you cannot switch off everything

.

'Tis spyware this M$ Windbag 10. But then the Legion of Decency, corporations and gov't spy agencies also have their fingers up our asses.

[ 03. November 2015, 13:59: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Apple does it too. Android does it, everybody does. Except maybe Linux. For Linux, I think you need a third-party shell that only spies for some installs.

If you must hate, hate accurately.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I am hating accurately. Linux doesn't spy unless you want it to, but then only to your repository sources which you specifically identify. You can use an "update manager" if you want, either as comes with default installs of things like Linux Mint, or you can install one yourself. Uninstall or turn off the utility, and you're done with it.

You can see exactly what repositories (software sources) that it is checking and add or subtract these at will. Though we've set up all the Linux computers to only update through manual which is explicit and only possible if I've given users the admin password.

code:

$ su 
$ apt-get update
$ apt-get upgrade

Posted by Lucia (# 15201) on :

Ha! I knew there was somewhere round here I could rant about Windows 10! Or rather about the sneaky and dishonest behaviour of Microsoft in installing it on my machine when I didn't want it. I knew I hadn't actively agreed to it. We were planning to do it at some point before it stopped being free but being in the midst of preparations for an imminent international move we don't really have the time to learn a new operating system and fiddle around with whatever you need to do with Windows 10 to make it remotely private.

But my main complaint is about Microsoft.
According to here the way they have done this is by making it so that when you click the corner X to close the window that pops up to offer you the upgrade to Windows 10 it has been set to take that as explicit authorization to proceed! Outrageous to change the way something functions to trick people into something they didn't authorise.
And I've now wasted an hour and a half this morning waiting for the stupid thing to install rather than getting on with the things that I actually turned the computer on to do. [Mad]

Not impressed Microsoft. [Disappointed]

[ 17. May 2016, 10:31: Message edited by: Lucia ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

I keep clicking the x to close that pop up (and, each time wonder how many times I need to do it before someone takes the hint that I like Windows 8 and don't feel any need to "upgrade"). It hasn't seemed to take that as an authorisation to install it.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

According to that article, Alan, it depends entirely on whether or not your system is set to install "Recommended" updates.

Mine isn't, thank goodness, only "Important" ones. But how utterly disgusting.

Posted by Lucia (# 15201) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I keep clicking the x to close that pop up (and, each time wonder how many times I need to do it before someone takes the hint that I like Windows 8 and don't feel any need to "upgrade"). It hasn't seemed to take that as an authorisation to install it.

I have been doing likewise and it never installed it until today... It sounds like it might be a recent change, so be aware folks!

[ 17. May 2016, 11:08: Message edited by: Lucia ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

OK, mine was set to install recommended updates. So, by rights it should have upgraded to Windows 10 automatically, but hasn't. Maybe I've just been lucky.

I've just changed it so it will download them, but let me choose whether to install them.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Windows 10 is like being forced to eat all of your vegetables and still getting a spanking.

That's a premium service, you realise?

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

The spanking? You'd be in great peril.

The constant badgering to install Windows 10 is almost certain temptation. Who will save us from this terrible peril?

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I keep clicking the x to close that pop up (and, each time wonder how many times I need to do it before someone takes the hint that I like Windows 8 and don't feel any need to "upgrade"). It hasn't seemed to take that as an authorisation to install it.
I have been doing likewise and it never installed it until today... It sounds like it might be a recent change, so be aware folks!

It happened to my wife today. Read this.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Is it true that Microshaft is flogging adverts on your windows10 start menu? This link says they are going to increase in number. I had no idea you folks were getting ads before you even openned a web browser.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Is it true that Microshaft is flogging adverts on your windows10 start menu? This link says they are going to increase in number. I had no idea you folks were getting ads before you even openned a web browser.

Apps, not ads. (Yes, I know that's what some braindead subeditor titled it as). They are just tiles on the right hand side.

You don't need to look at the start menu at all most days - just put the commonly used app startup links on the taskbar (or the desktop if you must), just like any other OS. And if you are going to use the start menu, you will no doubt be looking for the less-used stuff on the LHS.

Posted by alienfromzog (# 5327) on :

I have multiple computers.

On one of them I have win7 and Win10 dual-booting as I manage my gentle switch over.

One of my PCs is a Media Center. As this feature has now been removed, I am definitely not updating that PC to win 10.

This might help

AFZ

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Read this.

So, this change was "based on user feedback"? That would be all the users who have spent the last 10 months closing the pop-up because we like our current operating system and don't want to change? Or, maybe don't really like it but we know it runs everything we need to use, and aren't sure that Win10 will and don't want to risk losing access to vital software. The users who would much rather not see that pop up at all? Who are these users who a) haven't already upgraded and b) want to make it easier to upgrade?

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Well, I'm on Windows 7 and I'm now getting hassled by Microsoft every time I turn on my computer. By treading very carefully, I've managed to evade the "upgrade" - but it's getting harder and harder.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

You'd have thought someone in Microsoft would have realised that after 10 months of clicking "No" to the offer of a free upgrade that there's a very good chance that the upgrade is not wanted.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

It's been mentioned before on this thread, but I've installed this gwx thing that stops Windows from nagging me.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

You don't have to install anything - just switch the nag screen off (details everywhere). Anyway, it will go away entirely in a couple of months if Micro$oft follow up on their stated plans, as that's when the free upgrade period expires. You can of course pay for it thereafter.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

For those who want to know, the Win 7 update to watch out for is KB3035583. Right click it and hide it. As I've just done.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

I still have dreams of showing for work at Microsoft, and reassuring them it's a free service, and doing it until they get the analogy.

I find it staggering that anyone ever thought this would play out well in PR terms.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

And I've just installed the GWX control panel to (hopefully) make even the invites stop.

I've just seen one comment comparing Microsoft to a rapist, and while I wouldn't go that far yet, they're currently the big sweaty guy who's sat next to you at the bar and keeps buying you drinks regardless of whether you show any interest.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I sounds like you guys aren't done being forced to chug the sugarfree without taking a breath. Microsoft's Windows 10 upgrades are getting even more sneaky-pushy. If you've been deliberately ignoring those upgrade popups, watch out for a new twist they're taking.

quote:
Instead of simply giving you the option to install its latest operating system (or not), Microsoft now automatically schedules a date and time to update your PC to Windows 10.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Looks like Microsoft is beginning to backpedal ever so slightly. After I sent the Australian office a cranky message via Facebook, they said they were very sorry about the automatic upgrade and sent me links to two pages: one about rollback (though it wasn't immediately clear whether this meant full rollback to a previous version of Windows), and one to this page which, in its latest revision, faintly acknowledges that maybe you simply don't WANT this upgrade at all.

Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I find it staggering that anyone ever thought this would play out well in PR terms.

Because of its dominance Microsoft doesn't have to think about PR. In a while everything will be Windows 10 and this episode largely forgotten about. Windows is a necessary evil.

Necessary because there is no alternative that you can just switch on your machine when you buy it and it is there and doing everything you might want and takes no effort to install and operate.

Evil because of this kind of thing.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

Now it's on the BBC News site, here.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Today my office computer insisted on updating to Windows 10. It took a long time but seems to have been trouble free.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

But, the whole point has nothing to do with whether or not the change to Win10 is trouble free and simple. The question is whether it's wanted.

Posted by alienfromzog (# 5327) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I find it staggering that anyone ever thought this would play out well in PR terms.
Because of its dominance Microsoft doesn't have to think about PR. In a while everything will be Windows 10 and this episode largely forgotten about. Windows is a necessary evil.

Necessary because there is no alternative that you can just switch on your machine when you buy it and it is there and doing everything you might want and takes no effort to install and operate.

Evil because of this kind of thing.

I think that's a fair summary.

I really like Win7, I do feel that it shows MS finally got it right. It's everything Windows should be.

My only beef with Win7 is that the Sync function (which I use a lot)* is not perfect and needs some prompting. For this reason I may upgrade to win10. But ONLY when I am ready (laptop currently dual-booted so I can play).

For so many things, non-Microsoft products are better. You'd never catch me using Internet Explorer by choice. Back in the day (Pre-2000) I used Lotus Word-Pro which was light-years better than Word. Mostly because it doesn't think it knows better than I do and it is WYSIWYG.

So, I tolerate Microsoft, coz hey what's the alternative? (I don't like Apple and couldn't use it at work anyway) and I have played with Open Source stuff but for most things I don't have the time to make it work.

And it's a problem that's not going away because MS know they don't have to fix stuff like this as there is no meaningful competition.

AFZ

*For the geeky-interested... I have a desktop and a laptop. All my data is stored on a network storage device so whichever computer I am using, everything I need is there. When I am away from home, it's still on the laptop because Win7 Ultimate has a Sync system that makes all the files I need available 'offline' Just like the cloud only mine and under my control. Great feature, not perfect in its execution - like most of Microsoft.

Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :

And now my colleague who lost 90 minutes because her computer was made to install Windows 10 (and the first thing she knew about that was when it just kicked in with no chance to save her work or tell it not to) can't do some of the things she could do under Windows 7 and she and I are wasting even more time trying to sort them out. A not particularly useful suggestion was to uninstall all the apps (Apps? They are bloody programs and changing the name does not make anything any better) and re-install. How long will that take?

I don't know why I am venting here - I ought to vent at Microsoft. Does anyone know of a contact there who will take any notice and/or try to do anything about it?

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Add up the time it takes to sort things out, plus the 90 minutes. Scale by the appropriate hourly rate for commercial contract work. Then the difficult bit, finding someone in Microsoft that you can bill.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
A not particularly useful suggestion was to uninstall all the apps . . . and re-install. How long will that take?

Assuming you can locate the installation media and serial number/keys.

A trick I learned a long time ago was to copy all installation media to my hard drive (they're certainly big enough these days) and install from there. Also, create a text file with the SN/key in it.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
A not particularly useful suggestion was to uninstall all the apps . . . and re-install. How long will that take?
Assuming you can locate the installation media and serial number/keys.

A trick I learned a long time ago was to copy all installation media to my hard drive (they're certainly big enough these days) and install from there. Also, create a text file with the SN/key in it.

Not that I've tried it myself - but W10 is supposed to use a different certification process. Once you have a valid install (whether by upgrade or original), you shouldn't need your key again. Doing a subsequent clean install will get an automatic re-certification from Microsoft.

(Not that you would need the key for an upgrade either of course).

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :

I am so freaking pissed off about this whole process.

I have a lot of control (as a sysadmin) about updates that get installed internally, but I want people to be able to trust Windows Updates for their laptops and at home so they keep their machines patched and safe.

This really breaks the trust.

I have also had to do a lot of extra work at the office to block it.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

A friend disabled the updater - BUT I now find that they can get me via a Hotmail accvount that i inherited from a person who started a group that i later took over.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Not quite sure why this is a problem for people at work. A half decent IT team will ensure users are not in the administrators group and will manage updates through WSUS or SCCM. I've got 5000 PCs to manage and only one has been inadvertently upgraded, by a particularly inventive user who has a secondary account with admin privileges, which the vast majority of users do not.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Of course, many people work in small businesses and don't have a tame IT team ...

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

Which, along with proper control over administrative privileges, argues for even the smallest of businesses having at least one, perhaps part-time, IT person on staff or at least on call.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Yes, I agree - but I'm sure it often doesn't happen.

Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :

IT teams, however large or small, have to be paid for.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Windows 10 is like being forced to eat all of your vegetables and still getting a spanking.
Apple is a pretentious bistro with one menu item: Tofu Steak. But this is OK, because we love tofu steak, everybody loves tofu steak, if they would but try it. Every day, every time, we love tofu steak. Tofu steak is the only thing we will ever eat. Until the menu is changed to tofu chicken because tofu chicken is the only thing we ever eat and ever wanted to.
Oh, and the chef yells at us because he made a mistake, we admit that we are at fault for noticing that mistake. We are ever so naughty for mentioning it. (Sorry, sorry, sir! Feature, not mistake, feature!)

I am a newly converted Apple user. I wish I'd done it ten years ago! Tofu or no Tofu.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

There doesn't seem to be a screen-saver feature on Windows10, unless I'm just too dim to know where it is. Children, way before you were born, when The Computer was new and shiny, and top soil was still being created by Almighty God, choosing a screen saver was fun and time consuming. My very favorite was Mowing Man: a fellow on his riding mower, tidying his quarter acre, with the grass rapidly growing where he has just mowed.

My next favorite was an amazing scene of a woods changing as the seasons changed. Leafing out in Spring, Full green leafy trees in Summer, Colors changing to red and yellow as the leaves fell to the forest floor, then snowfall in the winter. I loved it. Yes, those early days on the puter were just amazing. Now it's so serious and intense. Ah, for the good old days...

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
There doesn't seem to be a screen-saver feature on Windows10,

Apparently it's migrated to the "lock screen" controls.

Back in my innocent youth, before I understood that "blank, then turn off screen" was the One True Screensaver, I remember having some OpenGL pipes thing. I'd leave some program running and go out for a while, only to return to find that the program had made no progress because all the CPU was being devoted to computing the screensaver.

Oh, and you could now fry an egg on the computer's chassis.

PS. People who tell you that LCD screens don't show burn-in lie. It's not as bad as CRTs, but it happens. I can show you any number of LCD screens that have run 24/7 for a couple of years displaying the same control screen, and they show clear ghost images of window borders etc.

[ 26. May 2016, 16:40: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

We had some effin and jeffin at work because all the equipment works quite happily with the old system. A box came up about Windows 10 with a cross in it, clicked on the cross thinking that would dismiss it whereas in fact it activated the conversion to Windows 10 .

Dag-nabit,

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Having seen a screen grab from that message, I think they must be employing people who learned their coding while working for hackers who put malware on computers.

I've used a small thing called Never 10 to disable the compulsory update - and I hope it's safe - heard about it on the BBC, and saw it in the Guardian yesterday. Both my win 7 and win 8.1 computers were set up to do the auto upgrade, apparently. The others are XP, so presumably immune.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

saying no to Windows 10 update easier, but it's not because Microshaft has seen the errors of its ways: "The news of the change in the Windows 10 update prompt wording comes days after Microsoft paid a disgruntled Windows 10 updater $10,000 rather than appeal the case in court."

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

Apparently they are planning a major push before the July 29th deadline.
It includes one last full screen nag.

They certainly don't know when to shut up.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pearl B4 Swine:
Children, way before you were born, when The Computer was new and shiny, and top soil was still being created by Almighty God, choosing a screen saver was fun and time consuming. My very favorite was Mowing Man: a fellow on his riding mower, tidying his quarter acre, with the grass rapidly growing where he has just mowed.

My next favorite was an amazing scene of a woods changing as the seasons changed. Leafing out in Spring, Full green leafy trees in Summer, Colors changing to red and yellow as the leaves fell to the forest floor, then snowfall in the winter. I loved it. Yes, those early days on the puter were just amazing. Now it's so serious and intense. Ah, for the good old days...

And flying toasters! The whimsy of setting your flying toasters and how light or dark you wanted your toast!

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

And the Energizer bunny screensaver.
[Cool]

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

My Win7 temporarily died a year ago and I haven't gotten around to fixing it, so I'm on an old vista, no nagging from windows! Got lucky I guess!

I've read about traps like closing the nag window by hitting the x means "yes upgrade me" even though nothing warns you of that abnormal meaning to hitting the x. (Ive run into that with a few ads, really annoying!)

My (rarely hired) computer geek suggested switching to linux. We discussed what software I use and he said there are real good linux versions of each (word processing, music writing, graphics etc). Worth looking into a carefully planned escape from the MS world.

Apple might tempt but it's so expensive!

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Easy no risk trial of Linux is to download an image of the operating system on to either a disk or USB. You boot from the USB (recommended over a disc) and run from that to play with it. When done, shut down, remove USB and restart with no changes to your computer. I would recommend Linux Mint 17 Mate or Cinnamon desktop. Free as in beer and nearly all programs free as in gin.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I have successfully upgraded four computers lying around the house to Windows 10 and bought a new one with it installed.

A few minor glitches persist, but my biggest beef is that what used to be a "ding" notification has been replaced by a sound that is exactly like the opening chord of Don't dream it's over (Sixpence None the Richer version in particular).

So every time the computer makes that noise, I start whistling the rest.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Eutychus--

Don't know if this will apply, because I'm still using Vista. But does Win10 still have a Sounds section in the Control Panel? If so, you should be able to change the sound scheme there, or turn off all system sounds. Or even add in your own sound files. I've sometimes used TV theme songs for various system sounds. Currently, I have system sounds switched off.

YMMV, of course.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I'll doubtless get around to it eventually.

(I've configured my phone ringtone to the historic Microsoft Sound. It's quite fun watching geeks look up confusedly when it rings on a bus)

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Micro$oft's Widows 10 anniversary update wrecks secondary partitions, confirming it's innate goodness: Link (Slashdot).

Windows error sound remix: Windows sound remix

[ 04. August 2016, 16:39: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

What's got my goat is that my beloved hotmail is now gone for ever and I have to use sodding outlook. [Waterworks]

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

Unless I'm missing something the Windows 10 calculator is rubbish compared to the Windows 7 calculator.
Also, I cannot find Freecell. (This is not a request. If Windows 10 has Freecell, please do not tell me how to find it. I'm not saying my productivity has gone up, but my procrastination has got more complicated.)

[ 04. August 2016, 19:36: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

The calculator seems to do all the stuff it did in Windows 7 & 8. But I can't remember how to get the different versions up.

FreeCell is part of the Microsoft Solitaire collection along with Spider, Pyramid, Tripeaks and Klondike. It is available for Windows phones too.

[ 04. August 2016, 20:41: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I'll doubtless get around to it eventually.

(I've configured my phone ringtone to the historic Microsoft Sound. It's quite fun watching geeks look up confusedly when it rings on a bus)

LOL. I like it when I hear a ringtone of an old rotary phone ringing. [Smile]

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Unless I'm missing something the Windows 10 calculator is rubbish compared to the Windows 7 calculator.
Also, I cannot find Freecell. (This is not a request. If Windows 10 has Freecell, please do not tell me how to find it. I'm not saying my productivity has gone up, but my procrastination has got more complicated.)

You'll thank me one day.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
FreeCell is part of the Microsoft Solitaire collection along with Spider, Pyramid, Tripeaks and Klondike. It is available for Windows phones too.

But not Windows 8.
[Frown]

(I did get it installed, but I like the older version better.)

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Unless I'm missing something the Windows 10 calculator is rubbish compared to the Windows 7 calculator.
Also, I cannot find Freecell. (This is not a request. If Windows 10 has Freecell, please do not tell me how to find it. I'm not saying my productivity has gone up, but my procrastination has got more complicated.)
You'll thank me one day.

I hate you.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I hate you.

And so they fall, one at a time...

[ 05. August 2016, 08:11: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I thought I'd got that confined safely on my smartphone.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

The problem with 2048 is that it's too easy. I generally have to go for the 4096 tile just to make it a challenge.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Oh, go away.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
You'll thank me one day.

Did the Discworld version and the Doctor Who version.

Posted by Curious Kitten (# 11953) on :

The bloody auto updates of Windows 10. This is not - or at least you didn't tell me this would be - a big update so why an hour later am I still waiting for my computer to turn on and finish installing updates.

And yes I know if I set the connection as metered it will stop the updates until I chose but it's annoying, prevents other updates I want to happen from happening, has to be done on every network I use and generally feels like a shitty work round for something MS shouldn't have implemented in the first place.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0