Ship of Fools: Hacked off at the Buddhists

Thread: Hacked off at the Buddhists Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Specifically, the Buddhist monks in my city. They just took a funeral (at vast expense, naturally!) for the mother of a friend who is the only Christian in his large family. Lo and behold, when they came to cast everyone's horoscopes (or the folk Buddhist equivalent, something about birth years, I dunno) they announced that he, and only he, was "incompatible" with his mother's 'scope and had to be excluded from the funeral! As in, "don't touch your mother's body, don't stand next to the casket, don't take part in family rituals, don't even enter the fucking funeral ROOM or your mother will go to hell because of you."

The poor man has been banished to the parking lot. He was, I believe, her primary caretaker.

Fuckety fuck fuck fuck.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

The Buddha condemned astrology, they are foolish.
The actions of the living have no affect on the dead, they are foolish.
Even if one accepts astrology, the odds of this reading would be low, they are arseholes.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Jerks. May the man find peace and comfort, and his mother's spirit find peace and light.

I wonder if this was really a matter of "ew, ick, Christian"? (Whether or not they really believed his presence would do what they said, or they just didn't want to catch Christian cooties. And yes, Christians can be really insensitive, too.)

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

Sounds like Tibetan Buddhism.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

I hope the Dalai Lama would be appalled. [Disappointed]

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Yeah, I was wondering flavor(s) of Buddhist they are. Some have a lot of old pre-Buddhist folk religion mixed in, which is not necessarily a bad thing. And AIUI Tibetan Buddhism has all sorts of bardos/hells, though everyone does eventually make it to Nirvana.

I'm fond of spiritual teachers Ondrea and Stephen Levine. They're rooted in Buddhism, and specialize in working with the sick and dying. Anyway, Stephen told the story of some Tibetan monks who came to him, probably at a workshop or retreat, and were worried about winding up someplace bad after death, like a bardo. Stephen told them that, given reincarnation, they'd already been through it a million times. So, at worst, it would be just another bad day! [Biased]

The Levines also say that reincarnation is just continued opportunity for healing. (I don't know if reincarnation happens, but that idea makes it much less scary for me.)

Lyda, I doubt that the DL would approve. I was thinking that neither would Thich Nhat Hanh--but he's Zen, and Tibetan Buddhists (if they are) might not care.

Posted by Joesaphat (# 18493) on :

This is a very odd occurrence, Lamb. I was brought up a Buddhist and have never heard of something like this. My mum's already planning her funeral and that basically means inviting a few monastics to chant a couple of sutras, then give them food. I hate to ask (one should really try hard not to speak ill of the Sangha) but were they indeed Tibetans? Event the Tibetans I know would not cast horoscopes to determine re-births, you're supposed to have developed the siddhis (supra-normal perceptions) like the Buddha himself to develop that knowledge, planets won't influence this one bit. I'm intrigued... but yea, these were arseholes.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Isn't it good to know that it isn't just Christians who can be insensitive, ignorant, money-grabbing pricks?

Religion doesn't make people good. Or bad. People just suck like a blow-job with a dyson, and sometimes faith can provide some redemption, some improvement.

Posted by Rocinante (# 18541) on :

Your friend shouldn't have taken any notice of said arseholes. Should have told them to fuck off, maybe without the expletive, it being his mothers's funeral and all. Their preposterous "beliefs" are not his problem.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Isn't it good to know that it isn't just Christians who can be insensitive, ignorant, money-grabbing pricks?.

Capitalism pokes it's tendrils in everywhere like Japanese knotweed. Might just as well have a humanist send off with bells, ribbons and banners and pander to that shit as pretend to do otherwise.

Always had a lot of respect for Buddhists an all. Hi ho, there goes another one, why fucking care.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
Your friend shouldn't have taken any notice of said arseholes. Should have told them to fuck off, maybe without the expletive, it being his mothers's funeral and all. Their preposterous "beliefs" are not his problem.

I'm guessing he was and felt outnumbered, by the monks and mourners. Maybe there was pressure from relatives. Plus his mom was Buddhist, and presumably wanted a Buddhist send-off, and the monks might have left if he stayed. And he was grieving and vulnerable.

Or something like that.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:

quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
Your friend shouldn't have taken any notice of said arseholes. Should have told them to fuck off, maybe without the expletive, it being his mothers's funeral and all. Their preposterous "beliefs" are not his problem.
I'm guessing he was and felt outnumbered, by the monks and mourners. Maybe there was pressure from relatives. Plus his mom was Buddhist, and presumably wanted a Buddhist send-off, and the monks might have left if he stayed. And he was grieving and vulnerable.

Or something like that.

Yeah, Rocinante has the correct attitude, but under the circumstances, to make a scene then and there would be easier said than done.

What a bunch of assholes. [Mad]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Remember what Deep Throat said, back in the Watergate years? Follow the money. You pay the piper, you call the tune. If he was footing the bill, he had the power to call the shots. If he wasn't, his only hope would be to appeal to the person who was paying. And that person might have been unwilling/unable to rock the boat.

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

Somewhere, in a parallel bulletin board, a Buddhist is complaining that they went to their parent's funeral and were told that they were going to fry in Hell for all eternity.

About the only good thing is what SC pointed out - it's good to know that Christians don't have a monopoly on stupid and horrible. That poor man ...

Tubbs

Posted by Rocinante (# 18541) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
Somewhere, in a parallel bulletin board, a Buddhist is complaining that they went to their parent's funeral and were told that they were going to fry in Hell for all eternity.

Tubbs

Nasty, very nasty, but not the same as being actually excluded. As a Buddhist he should simply have felt compassion for someone who could hold such damaging (to the person holding them) beliefs.

I think this funeral may have been like the hotel wedding of a non-religious couple I once attended. I became more and more uncomfortable as the minister (hired by the hotel, probably a nice regular gig for him) preached a totally inappropriate fire-and-brimstone sermon, basically saying that the (increasingly un-)happy couple needed to repent and be baptised, preferably right there and then, or burn forever etc. etc.

The closest I've ever been in any religious service to standing up and shouting "Okay, stop this crap right now." Managed to restrain myself. With some difficulty.

If you want to ruin an important occasion, get a professional religious person involved.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I can't tell you what kind of Buddhists these were. The people are Vietnamese, so probably some form of Mahayana, but I have major doubts about them being formally affiliated with anything much in particular. They are pretty much the only shop in town.

We've had run-ins with them before--most notably when a poor woman died in the middle of the night and the nursing home was insisting on her body being removed to a funeral home before the other residents woke up, but there were apparently bedside rituals to be performed, and the monk the family contacted refused to get out of bed. It took major begging and pleading before he consented to come down a couple hours later (6 am) and then we had to supply him with a driver (he didn't want to take his own car) and a fresh flower to sprinkle water with. In February. In a snowstorm.

The bereaved son played chauffeur. Mr. Lamb finally found a fucking carnation in the cafeteria. The guy came out, did some mumbo jumbo for about half an hour, and collected a thousand dollars.

How do I know all this? Because we provided the pastoral care for the entire family, from the days she was still in chemo to well after the funeral. We stood by her deathbed, we found them a funeral home, we sat suicide watch on the children, we prevented the daughter from throwing herself into the grave. They pocketed 5000 to run a fucking cassette tape of chanting while sitting in the best room of the house drinking tea and chatting with visitors. Our local Christian church was in the back kitchen with their sleeves rolled up, washing dishes. And getting scolded by a Buddhist woman in her best clothes who came down the hall for a moment to inform us that we ought to take care of our own people and not meddle in their affairs.

This is where the local proverb comes from: The Buddhists get the rich, and the Christians get the poor.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

Rocinante wrote:

quote:
I think this funeral may have been like the hotel wedding of a non-religious couple I once attended. I became more and more uncomfortable as the minister (hired by the hotel, probably a nice regular gig for him) preached a totally inappropriate fire-and-brimstone sermon, basically saying that the (increasingly un-)happy couple needed to repent and be baptised, preferably right there and then, or burn forever etc. etc.

So lemme get this straight. These people asked a hotel to arrange for a wedding officiant, and then turned around and complained that he wasn't the kind of clergyman they wanted?

If this couple were so non-religious that they didn't know any clergymen of their own to contact, why on Earth did they want a RELIGIOUS wedding in the first place? Can't say I'm registering a lot of sympathy here.

(Not that it isn't an entertaining story. Cheers.)

[ 07. September 2016, 18:31: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

They probably were remembering all the kindly, smiling clergy they had seen officiating in movie weddings. Cinema has a lot to answer for.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

mumbo jumbo, LC? Look, I get that you have local Buddhists who are jerks, but that particular domicile is made with translucent, non-crystalline amorphous solid vertical barriers such are susceptible to bits of hardened mineral. Especially if they are accelerated towards the barriers.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
They probably were remembering all the kindly, smiling clergy they had seen officiating in movie weddings. Cinema has a lot to answer for.

There is something to be said about the overhyped status of church weddings, especially when embraced by non-religious couples just going along with social expectations.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
mumbo jumbo, LC? Look, I get that you have local Buddhists who are jerks, but that particular domicile is made with translucent, non-crystalline amorphous solid vertical barriers such are susceptible to bits of hardened mineral. Especially if they are accelerated towards the barriers.

If you had been there, you'd have said the same. Frankly, I have my doubts whether you'd want to acknowledge this person as being a Buddhist in any way, shape or form. And everything he did seems to me highly suspect.

Posted by Rocinante (# 18541) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Rocinante wrote:

quote:
I think this funeral may have been like the hotel wedding of a non-religious couple I once attended. I became more and more uncomfortable as the minister (hired by the hotel, probably a nice regular gig for him) preached a totally inappropriate fire-and-brimstone sermon, basically saying that the (increasingly un-)happy couple needed to repent and be baptised, preferably right there and then, or burn forever etc. etc.
So lemme get this straight. These people asked a hotel to arrange for a wedding officiant, and then turned around and complained that he wasn't the kind of clergyman they wanted?

If this couple were so non-religious that they didn't know any clergymen of their own to contact, why on Earth did they want a RELIGIOUS wedding in the first place? Can't say I'm registering a lot of sympathy here.

(Not that it isn't an entertaining story. Cheers.)

I don't think they complained, really, they were just a bit weirded out by the whole thing. It was a very upmarket hotel in quite a remote location, I think he was probably the only licensed officiant they could reliably get. Everything else about their wedding day was wonderful, fortunately.

This jerk was using such huge spadefuls of Evangelical jargon ("I believe that Jesus is the once sacrificed Lamb of God who will stand beside us on the last day and save his own from the flames"), that I think (hope) that his offensive ejaculations went right over the heads of most people present.

Apparently he was the chaplain to the local fire brigade, this probably explains his fixation with flames and burning. No other qualification or affiliation was mentioned.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
I don't think they complained, really, they were just a bit weirded out by the whole thing.

Okay. Still kind of lacking much sympathy for their aforementioned "unhappiness", given that they were a non-religious couple hiring a religious officiant, via a hotel. I get that they had limited options, given the circumstances, but it still seems kind of odd to just go to a remote location, and assume you're gonna get a suitable candidate just by asking the concierge to make a phone call. Bad planning, at the very least.

[ 07. September 2016, 20:21: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
If you had been there, you'd have said the same. Frankly, I have my doubts whether you'd want to acknowledge this person as being a Buddhist in any way, shape or form. And everything he did seems to me highly suspect.

Fair enough. I've seen enough Buddhists practicing things contrary to the Buddha's teaching.

Posted by Helen-Eva (# 15025) on :

Well this is a useful corrective for people like me whose view of Buddhism is pretty much formed by Lisa Simpson being one and who therefore regard it as something inoffensive involving joss sticks.

Truly, being an arse-hole can apply in any faith structure.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I remember when I ran therapy groups, and quite often we would get a Buddhist in the group, and we would groan, as inevitably they would turn out to be very angry people, well that's OK, but they would also tend to say that they'd worked through their anger. The result was of course, that everybody else got angry. I guess they'd half way worked through it.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Buddhism, like any of the other older religions, has a lot of variation in practice. Sectarian variation as well as local and individual variation. And, shock..horror.. the telly often gets it wrong. As do many outsiders.
And Buddhist are people.
I've been told a Buddhist should be much more calm than I am. To which I give the serene reply: "Shut your fucking mouth before I demonstrate one fist clapping".
My anger management issues are not the fault of my belief system, but the result of my failure of adherence.
Blaming LC's encounters on her local Buddhists is spot on. Blaming the problems on Buddhism is ridiculous.

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

Buddhism has a lot of problems, mainly caused by politics and mixing the Dharma with local cults and practices. What westerners think of as Buddhism is often stripped of the worst excesses and placing a huge emphasis on 20th century writings rather than actual practice. The Dalai Lama banned a demon worshipping cult based on the pronouncements of a spirit oracle and some western people still claim that Buddhism is based on science.It is no better nor any worse than any other religion but unfortunately many people put it on a pedestal it often doesn't deserve.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

What you say Bob, is not untrue, but it is no different from what you could say about Christianity or Judaism or Islam or etc.

Posted by Helen-Eva (# 15025) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I've been told a Buddhist should be much more calm than I am. To which I give the serene reply: "Shut your fucking mouth before I demonstrate one fist clapping".

I have heard our vicar's wife advising of annoying persons "You should punch them! In Christian love and charity of course." Just goes to show that serenity can exist in so many forms. [Biased]

Posted by Soror Magna (# 9881) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
...I've been told a Buddhist should be much more calm than I am. To which I give the serene reply: "Shut your fucking mouth before I demonstrate one fist clapping". ...

Quotes File

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