Ship of Fools: Who punches a baby?

Thread: Who punches a baby? Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

What could possibly motivate anyone to leave a fist mark on the head of a 5 day old child? [Mad]

Thought it was a doll? Even if.....if.....he genuinely thought that, why punch it? Frankly, that sounds like bullshit, but I cannot and fathom the kind of mindset that perpetrates such violence.

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

31 children under 16 were killed by their parents in England and Wales in 2015. The victims were more likely to be infants than older children.

A 2013 study into filicide found that while mental illness is over-represented in cases of filicide, still, only 40% of the 297 perpetrators studied had a recorded mental illness.

While randomly punching someone else's baby in a supermarket is, indeed, a bizarre thing to do, in the context of adult violence towards infants in general, it wouldn't be my biggest concern.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Let's see what comes out. My first guess is that he may have some kind of mental health problem. That could explain (i) mistaking a baby for a doll and (ii) punching it. No doubt we will learn more if the story runs.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
31 children under 16 were killed by their parents in England and Wales in 2015. The victims were more likely to be infants than older children.

When I read the horrid stories about babies being killed, it's almost always by a parent or supposed babysitter (often mother's "boyfriend"). It's usually in anger because the baby is crying too loud, wetting his pants, etc. (you know, typical baby behavior). I know very little about babies, but thinking that the way to stop a baby's crying is to shake him (or her) makes no sense whatsoever. Shaking a baby so hard that it causes fatal brain damage is unthinkable.

However, the story in the o.p. is by a total stranger, so it seems to me to be a totally different situation. I just pray that no permanent damage was done (which seems to be the case, TBTG).

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Let's see what comes out. My first guess is that he may have some kind of mental health problem. That could explain (i) mistaking a baby for a doll and (ii) punching it. No doubt we will learn more if the story runs.

That'll make it OK, if he is mentally ill. Because those people who are mentally ill are all fucking dangerous so the rest of us don't need to worry.

Whatever, he was a dangerous fuckhead who should be treated as such. Other problems he might have are irrelevant. Someone who goes around punching others is a dangerous person, and should be dealt with.

There are some babies I have wanted to punch. But I don't, because I am a moderately stable person.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Of course, this idiot deserves all the scorn they're getting.

That said, who hasn't been tempted..?

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
That said, who hasn't been tempted..?

You have to be kidding. But you're not are you?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Tempted to punch a baby? That is fucked up even if you did not do it.
I am no angel and I have a temper. I have been tempted to swat a behind or smack a hand, but never punch a child.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Let's see what comes out. My first guess is that he may have some kind of mental health problem. That could explain (i) mistaking a baby for a doll and (ii) punching it. No doubt we will learn more if the story runs.
That'll make it OK, if he is mentally ill. Because those people who are mentally ill are all fucking dangerous so the rest of us don't need to worry.

Whatever, he was a dangerous fuckhead who should be treated as such. Other problems he might have are irrelevant. Someone who goes around punching others is a dangerous person, and should be dealt with.

There are some babies I have wanted to punch. But I don't, because I am a moderately stable person.

Don't talk bollocks. If he did this because he's mentally ill, of course he's dangerous, just as he is if he knew what he was doing. But if he was one of the small number of mentally ill people who are actually dangerous because of their illness, it's not his fault, is it? And so in this case the answer to this question 'who punches a baby?' might be- and I don't know the full facts and neither do you or anyone else on here, not that that'd stop you sounding off- someone who's not responsible for his actions. So shut up and wait for the story to unfold. You and everyone else on here who is masturbating their sense of outrage.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

People get frustrated all the time, whether sane or insane. Most sane and insane people do neither hit anyone, nor express their annoyance with violence. It's not okay to have a murderous rage and to murder. It's the least mark of a civilized person, to control themselves. To not hit other people. To not pick their nose nor shit their pants, and eat neither.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Of course, this idiot deserves all the scorn they're getting.

That said, who hasn't been tempted..?

The only time I'm tempted is when I'm on public transport and someone tells a parent to "make" their child stop crying. As though it's a tap that can be turned off at will. Then I'm tempted to strike the person who made the request, but never the child.

If anything, I'd want to pick up the child and gently sway from side to side as I did will all my nieces and nephews when they were babies. Violence against a child is a concept I find utterly abhorrent.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
People get frustrated all the time, whether sane or insane. Most sane and insane people do neither hit anyone, nor express their annoyance with violence. It's not okay to have a murderous rage and to murder. It's the least mark of a civilized person, to control themselves. To not hit other people. To not pick their nose nor shit their pants, and eat neither.

Agreed, but some- a few- people do any or all of those things and aren't able to stop themselves. They may need to be controlled, for the sake of others and of themselves, but they can't be blamed. But as I say, we don't yet know in this case why he did it.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
But as I say, we don't yet know in this case why he did it.

Which doesn't stop you putting the oar in for mental health issues, does it? And then getting all gold-fingered when I suggest that mentioning that is offensive?

It doesn't matter why. It was wrong. Anything else is justification. Most of what you have jacked over this thread is your justification for discriminating against others. While we know nothing different, lets start on the assumption that he was just like you.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
That said, who hasn't been tempted..? [/qb]

You have to be kidding. But you're not are you? [/QUOTE]

I've never punched anyone. But small children, particularly my own after days of sleepless nights, have driven me closest.

So you can get over yourself. If you can't see how a small child might induce someone to violence, never mind when mixed in with all the other factors which might be in play here, then you're not trying hard enough.

Obviously this is a crime and the perpetrator should be punished. But it is an understandable crime on some level, in my opinion. I can't imagine murdering someone with a steak-knife, but I think the majority of people have been tempted to punch a baby. Fortunately it doesn't seem to happen as often as it might.

Posted by St Deird (# 7631) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
but I think the majority of people have been tempted to punch a baby.

Punch, no. Throw across the room, yes.

I settled for yelling, stomping out of the room, and saying "YOU deal with him!" to my also-exhausted husband.

Posted by Trin (# 12100) on :

Q: What could motivate someone to do x (bizarre, inexplicable violent act)?

A: Maybe he has mental problems.

Perhaps I'm a bit simple. Where is the offence to be found in that suggestion?

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I think the majority of people have been tempted to punch a baby. Fortunately it doesn't seem to happen as often as it might.

Dunno about punching specifically, but the frustration felt by new parents towards their offspring is one of those Bad Things that no-one talks about in case they sound like a child abuser.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trin:
Q: What could motivate someone to do x (bizarre, inexplicable violent act)?

A: Maybe he has mental problems.

Perhaps I'm a bit simple. Where is the offence to be found in that suggestion?

Well, there's a sexist presumption there that the perpetrator is male!

Maybe they have mental health problems, maybe they don't. What is offensive is:
a) Implied causality. i.e. the assumption that if someone is mentally ill then they pose a danger to society.
b) The lack of looking for other causes. i.e. we are satisfied that "mental illness" is a sufficient answer that requires no further examination of root cause and that other factors which may be at play are either irrelevant or dwarfed by the fact that someone is mentally ill.

In a complicated world, we yearn for a simple answer, but when that simple answer is a demographic (mentally ill, immigrants, evangelicals, gingers) then there's an inevitable stirring up of stigma and prejudice.

[ 08. September 2016, 13:18: Message edited by: Sipech ]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
But as I say, we don't yet know in this case why he did it.
Which doesn't stop you putting the oar in for mental health issues, does it? And then getting all gold-fingered when I suggest that mentioning that is offensive?

It doesn't matter why. It was wrong. Anything else is justification. Most of what you have jacked over this thread is your justification for discriminating against others. While we know nothing different, lets start on the assumption that he was just like you.

Schroedinger's cat- that state of ambiguity. here he is in his online box. is he a pompous prick? or is he a completely pompous prick? Or is he simultaneously both?

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

The situation is really bizarre. I could see (but not excuse) a stranger becoming unhinged if trapped for hours on a plane with a wailing baby. But if the situation was as described: new parents shopping, showing off the new baby, no indications if the child was crying (if she was persistently crying, most likely one parent would take her outside to walk around and jiggle her), a slight acquaintance of those present walks up... and punches her. Thinking she was a doll. And why would you even punch a stranger's doll anyway?! WTF!!! It's really mind-blowing. [Ultra confused]

The asshat is coming before the magistrate on Oct. 4. I'll want to see what he has to say.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

Frustration is becoming an excuse for violence.

I was on a train the other day. The doors stuck closed for a short time. A bloke started kicking it down! When his girlfriend told him to stop he said " I'm well stressed".

Neanderthal [Mad]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
If you can't see how a small child might induce someone to violence, never mind when mixed in with all the other factors which might be in play here, then you're not trying hard enough.

I can see how someone might be induced to have thoughts of violently silencing a child. But it's up to the adult to deal in an adult way with such thoughts and not act upon them. Feeling like that may be understandable, but acting on them, no.

For myself, I've certainly been tempted to shout very loudly and angrily at some kid's deliberately naughty behaviour. But have never done it. Laying a violent hand on a child just feels like the line that should never be crossed. I think that adults, especially those who have or work with kids, should be expected to know how to at least avoid responding inappropriately to an infant's provocative behaviour.

Posted by Soror Magna (# 9881) on :

Neanderthals punching strangers was briefly a part of my city's nightlife:
10th 'sucker punch' attack of 2015

"How could someone do such a thing?" sounds pretty silly after a demonstration of doing such a thing. I think the real question is "why" and wouldn't it be great if we had a better answer than "because, human."

Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :

All the victims of those sucker punches were men. Unprovoked male/male violence isn't uncommon - I've experienced it, and most guys I know have.

A man randomly punching a woman in the street is much rarer and more shocking, but punching a baby is really, really freaky. There are huge social taboos involved, hence people are speculating about mental illness (or drugs).

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Frustration is becoming an excuse for violence.

I was on a train the other day. The doors stuck closed for a short time. A bloke started kicking it down! When his girlfriend told him to stop he said " I'm well stressed".

Neanderthal

Though at least he took it out on a door, rather than kicking a person.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

A sixty-three year old man is shopping in Tesco with his wife. His wife spots a couple she knows slightly, and goes to admire their new baby. He punches the five day old baby in its pram.

He claims he thought it was a doll.

Sixty three year old men, shopping with their wives in Tesco, are not the usual perpetrators of sucker punches.

There are two possibilities:

a) he genuinely thought that it was a doll (though why punch it?) in which case something is wrong with his thought processes or

b) he knew it was a very new baby, and punched it. In which case there is something wrong with his thought processes.

It is hard to see why he should be frustrated with the baby, crying or not. Possibly the shopping trip had already involved his wife stopping to talk to people she knew, and now she was stopping to talk to someone else. The story suggests that his wife knew the couple slightly, as the neighbours of a colleague, but he didn't know them.

People will inevitably wonder about mental illness, because it is so bizarre for a husband-and-wife trip to Tesco to culminate in the husband's arrest for punching a baby. Imagine how his wife must feel; one minute she is cooing over a new baby in its pram; the next minute her husband has punched it.

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