Thread: Tory Xenophobes Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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And it's a race to the bottom between Fox, Hunt, and Rudd to see who can be most vile as they wreck the country.
I'd like to find something sarcastic or witty or cutting to say, but words just fail me.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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Some people are saying that it's a feint, to placate her own right wing, and pull back UKIP voters. It's possible.
It's scary stuff.
Just chatting with some Scots online, who are going ballistic, and urging Sturgeon to plan for IndyRef2.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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I was half-expecting May to quote St Francis.
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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Delusional, the whole lot of them.
Posted by Callan (# 525) on
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The feint theory, is, IMO, wishful thinking. I think they have all gone full Farage.
The only question, really, is how much damage will they manage to do before it blows up in their faces?
Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Some people are saying that it's a feint, to placate her own right wing, and pull back UKIP voters. It's possible.
Except that this was usually done in the past by letting some backwoods Tory off the leash for a bit - day release for the lunatic in the west wing.
This time the front bench and PM appear to have gone full Redwood.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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Link, please?
Ian J.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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According to Theresa May, Labour is the "nasty party". She really needs to look into the mirror sometime soon. Because her own party has not only shown itself to be "nasty" (though, many of us have known that for a long time - just see how the previous government has treated disabled people on benefit), but also worthy of a slight change in syllables there.
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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Patriotism, at best, is a bit silly. It's taking pride in where you were a born; something you had no choice in and which cannot, by any measure, be classed as an achievement on your part.
But even when that bit silliness is expressed as supporting a sports team, or waving a flag at the last night of the proms, the spectre of nationalism that wears the clothes of patriotism makes me feel sullied.
One cannot, however gently, take pride in being British when the government panders to the xenophobes and speaks with a rhetoric more suited to the 1930s. And this, as we mark the 80th anniversary of the Battle of Cable Street, when the fascists were sent on their way. Today's fascists don't wear black shirts and march through the streets. They wear sharp suits, sip their coffee, own our newspapers, and gently smile as they co-opt the language of working class movements of the past for their own nefarious means.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
I think they have all gone full Farage.
More like they've played their Trump card.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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Attention all foreigners! All valuables and jewellery must be itemized, and lists thereof deposited at a Government Brexit Recycling facility. You can rest assured that these lists will be securely held, well, for a bit anyway.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
You can rest assured that these lists will be securely held
They privatised the job, and G4S have been given the contract.
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on
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It is looking suspiciously like May is honing her act fairly and squarely on an Election next Spring by trying to *court* the mood which toppled her predecessor.
Labour gonna have to get it's 'kin act together big time if there is to be a hope in hell of stopping Tory-girl romping home with an increased majority.
Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on
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I heard this here on the radio this morning and thought it was a parody. I can't quite believe this is even being proposed in public. There seems to be no realisation of just how dangerous and destructive even proposing this could be. What the hell were they thinking? If the Labour party is now the 'nasty party' the Conservative party seems to have morphed into a frighteningly powerful Britain First.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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Political satire or parody is dead. Anything you hear that sounds so ridiculous that it has to be parody is probably the truth.
This government can fucking well rot in hell. I am utterly ashamed of my country. If I could, I would leave it to sink.
Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Labour gonna have to get it's 'kin act together big time if there is to be a hope in hell of stopping Tory-girl romping home with an increased majority.
On a purely tactical level, the problem is that this strategy only takes you so far. It's far easier to run on a populist ticket as an insurgent rather than as the government - where you would need both a compliant media and a steady stream of policy.
This is ignoring the fact that not all Leavers would necessarily vote for the populist ticket.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
It is looking suspiciously like May is honing her act fairly and squarely on an Election next Spring by trying to *court* the mood which toppled her predecessor.
Labour gonna have to get it's 'kin act together big time if there is to be a hope in hell of stopping Tory-girl romping home with an increased majority.
Then there's the possibility of UKIP actually winning seats. Provided they can survive their latest clusterfuck.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
You can rest assured that these lists will be securely held
They privatised the job, and G4S have been given the contract.
Those who remember the 2012 will remember that G4S got a lot of work there, but they couldn't do it so the Army was called in. Could this be a foretaste?
Posted by molopata (# 9933) on
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Some people are saying that it's a feint, to placate her own right wing, and pull back UKIP voters. It's possible.
It's scary stuff.
Indeed it is. People who try to placate xenophobes wind up encouraging them. With this coming from the person who created the "go home, foreigner" vans, I have no such faith in the placation theory.
It suddenly makes Callmedave's administration appear pleasantly moderate.
[ 06. October 2016, 06:15: Message edited by: molopata ]
Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on
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quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Some people are saying that it's a feint, to placate her own right wing, and pull back UKIP voters. It's possible.
It's scary stuff.
Indeed it is. People who try to placate xenophobes wind up encouraging them. With this coming from the person who created the "go home, foreigner" vans, I have no such faith in the placation theory.
Yes, quite. This is the second problem with adopting this policy as a government. It will fail, it will fail in its ability to achieve the things any supporters think it should. They will then demand an even more extreme set of policies - and they'll be helped in this by the right wing media.
Posted by Rocinante (# 18541) on
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I am in despair at what is happening to Britain. How in the name of sanity did we end up in this dark, nasty "Foreigners only wanted if we need them" place? And how the hell can anyone continue to delude themselves that May is moving to the centre? The Tories seem to think that a vote to leave meant "take leave of your senses and tear up the lessons of history". All part of not taking any notice of experts any more, probably.
Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on
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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
On a purely tactical level, the problem is that this strategy only takes you so far. It's far easier to run on a populist ticket as an insurgent rather than as the government - where you would need both a compliant media and a steady stream of policy.
This is ignoring the fact that not all Leavers would necessarily vote for the populist ticket.
They've already got that...
Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Link, please?
Ian J.
Are you all talking about something specific? If so I echo Ian J's request. Or at least a one sentence summary.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
I am in despair at what is happening to Britain. How in the name of sanity did we end up in this dark, nasty "Foreigners only wanted if we need them" place? And how the hell can anyone continue to delude themselves that May is moving to the centre? The Tories seem to think that a vote to leave meant "take leave of your senses and tear up the lessons of history". All part of not taking any notice of experts any more, probably.
I thought I heard May say that the Tories want to redefine the centre, which could mean almost anything. Most likely is that they will want to cater for any potential UKIPpers (whether wavering Tories or Labour supporters that have fallen for the Brexit rhetoric) so that will shift the centre to the right, which really will make Corbyn look like a leftie.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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Various speeches from the Conservative Party conference. In particular Amber Rudd proposing that UK firms publish information on non-UK staff and further restrictions on students. And, Theresa May's comment that "If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere". Just some of the worst examples IMO.
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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Amber Rudd is an interesting case. She's now occupying the role that Theresa May used to have, but is coming across far more xenophobic.
So is it that case that Rudd is going off-message or is she now being used a human shield for May's own xenophobia, which she was restrained from unleashing when she was Home Secretary under David Cameron?
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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A joke going around, that since there is a vacancy as leader of UKIP, Mrs May thought she would step up. Only thing is, it's not funny.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Amber Rudd is an interesting case.
That should probably be psychiatric case.
Reminiscent of the psychiatrist episode of Fawlty Towers, (paraphrase from memory) "an entire conference worth of material".
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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One positive sign is that businesses seem to have reacted negatively to the proposed 'naming and shaming' idea. I guess they don't want to function as minor immigration officials, and they don't want their firms to be attacked, either verbally or physically.
I shudder to think how this might pan out in some small towns, such as Wisbech, where there is obvious resentment about immigration. 'They're taking all our jobs', and so on. I wonder if they really are; I live next to a farm which regularly employ EU migrants to pick flowers and fruit and veg. I guess there are thousands of locals who are dying to do this back-breaking work, not.
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Link, please?
Ian J.
Are you all talking about something specific? If so I echo Ian J's request. Or at least a one sentence summary.
I think I saw something on the internet today about the UK not wanting any more foreign doctors. Maybe it's something to do with that? Otherwise, yeah, a link or summary would be helpful.
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on
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This might also be relevant, though I don't think it mentions any of the politicians referenced in the OP.
http://tinyurl.com/zntsp7p
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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It's part of a "get British businesses to employ British people" policy, which is great in theory but not always practical. Rudd is effectively proposing a "name and shame" scheme for businesses that fail to employ British people.
The impracticality is, of course, that if a business needs someone with a particular skill set then they either a) take on someone qualified or b) take someone unqualified and train them. If you need someone now, b) doesn't work. If you expect to need someone in 12-24 months b) might work if you have the resources to take on an apprentice - which most SMEs don't (especially when they risk training someone who then takes a job with a rival). If there are no locals with the skills they need then they're not going to have much choice but to look further afield.
If the government is so keen on British firms employing British people then they need to invest in helping companies take on apprenticeships, or to invest in colleges to teach the skills that the local economy needs (including identifying what those are and will be in the next 5-10 years). But, since they're also keen on cutting out the income for colleges and universities from overseas students I don't see much chance of them letting universities and colleges have more money.
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Various speeches from the Conservative Party conference. In particular Amber Rudd proposing that UK firms publish information on non-UK staff and further restrictions on students. And, Theresa May's comment that "If you believe you are a citizen of the world, you are a citizen of nowhere". Just some of the worst examples IMO.
I was waiting for one of them to start quoting Enoch Powell.
Rudd seems to be frantically back peddling about bits of it this morning. These are just measures they're considering ... And they haven't quite finished reading the BNP playbook to get further ideas.
Tubbs
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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Also this, although it's partial. There are proposals to restrict foreign students, people working in the NHS, and make firms list their foreign workers, 'naming and shaming, in tabloid vernacular.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/05/amber-rudd-defends-proposal-to-make-firms-reveal-foreign-staff-numbers
Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
I was waiting for one of them to start quoting Enoch Powell.
Sadly that was Rachel Reeves (Labour) last week:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-reeves-brexit-immigration-riots_uk_57ea791ee4b00e5804ef5ae0
quote:
Rudd seems to be frantically back peddling about bits of it this morning. These are just measures they're considering ... And they haven't quite finished reading the BNP playbook to get further ideas.
Or worse: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/amber-rudd-conservative-party-conerence-hitler-mein-kampf-james-obrien-a7347251 .html
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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Alan has summmarized it well. There are always shortages of labour, and skill shortages, which develop quickly. You often can't spend two years training someone up, so you go for foreign workers, if they are available.
With stuff like agriculture, it might be feasible to get local youth (that is, white English youth), picking your strawberries and flowers, but I'm not holding my breath.
In industries like video gaming, it's insane to tell firms not to employ a global staff, since the industry is global, and relies on international cooperation. Basically, these proposals could well crash the industry.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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I forgot to say that the idea of controlling immigration is shown to be empty. Shortages of labour/skills spring up all the time in different industries, such as construction, catering, agriculture, health, skilled trades such as plumbing.
Well, what does the government then do? Declare that you can't employ 50, 000 Polish builders, because they are not ethnic English? What a pile of shit - then the industry starts to collapse.
This is like controlling ejaculation, it's always after the fact.
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on
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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
I was waiting for one of them to start quoting Enoch Powell.
Sadly that was Rachel Reeves (Labour) last week:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rachel-reeves-brexit-immigration-riots_uk_57ea791ee4b00e5804ef5ae0
quote:
Rudd seems to be frantically back peddling about bits of it this morning. These are just measures they're considering ... And they haven't quite finished reading the BNP playbook to get further ideas.
Or worse: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/amber-rudd-conservative-party-conerence-hitler-mein-kampf-james-obrien-a7347251 .html
We appear to have fallen down the rabbit hole and landed goodness knows where.
Maybe this spoof government Are you a foreigner? form from The Poke is really a taste of things to come.
Tubbs
[ 06. October 2016, 12:06: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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It also makes me wonder how much government ministers know about business and industry? Amber Rudd criticized a firm she had visited for employing a lot of foreign labour, but the owner has hit back, and said that he employs mainly UK staff.
Ministers sound like amateurs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37571695
[ 06. October 2016, 12:30: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]
Posted by Rocinante (# 18541) on
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It also makes me wonder how much government ministers know about business and industry? Amber Rudd criticized a firm she had visited for employing a lot of foreign labour, but the owner has hit back, and said that he employs mainly UK staff.
Ministers sound like amateurs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37571695
A former workplace of mine was visited successively by John Redwood and William Hague, acting in a ministerial capacity. I know, I must have done something really terrible in a previous life.
Their inane remarks and lame questions revealed that they knew next to nothing about the sorts of things that we mere mortals had to do to earn a living. And I'm pretty sure they didn't care.
Amber Rudd will have learned a similar amount (i.e. nothing) from her visit to this hapless establishment. It probably just popped into what passes for her mind as an example she could use to back up her ridiculous beliefs. For most politicians, whatever they believe is true, so anything will be evidence in support of it. Q.E.D.
Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on
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That's what strikes me about health and education. Every few years we hand them over to a bunch of amateurs, who often have a zealous ideology going on, and they make various pronouncements, and edicts, which sometimes work, sometimes not.
Then another bunch arrive, and announce that they have the solution now. And so on.
Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
A former workplace of mine was visited successively by John Redwood and William Hague, acting in a ministerial capacity.
What makes this somewhat more amusing is that Redwood is often held up by his colleagues as someone who 'knows about the real world' because he has had a 'day job' of sorts during his time as MP. He worked for a bunch of finance companies, and is employed to this day by the private bank - N M Rothschild.
[ 06. October 2016, 20:03: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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That's the same sort of definition of "proper job" as used by Nigel Farage (merchant banker, or whatever such sort of job he had).
Posted by molopata (# 9933) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I thought I heard May say that the Tories want to redefine the centre, which could mean almost anything. Most likely is that they will want to cater for any potential UKIPpers (whether wavering Tories or Labour supporters that have fallen for the Brexit rhetoric) so that will shift the centre to the right, which really will make Corbyn look like a leftie.
And this reflects exactly what I have been thinking. The centre that May envisions is what she is doing now (or a bit right of it even). The new right can be UKIP, and the new left the LibDems or a right-wing break-off of Labour. Corbyn & Co. are off her spectrum. So the goal now is to shape the national discourse in a way to make this happen. Frankly, with Brexit, they've made a good start.
And as a result, I'm already beginning to re-evaluate my dismissive opinion of Cameron, who all things considered is beginning to look like a reasonable bloke...
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on
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Meanwhile, EU academics have been told that HM Government doesn't want advice from all those greasy surrender monkeys leaching money from all our noble British experts because they might give the whole friggin game away.
I'll tell you what, Ms Rudd, why don't you go the whole hog and just force them across the channel today whilst whistling "who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler".
FFS. They're all completely mad.
Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on
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Meanwhile, as if UKIP representatives felt that their party's racism, xenophobia, etc, weren't painting them in a vile enough light, they're now going for violence as conflict resolution method of choice, followed by the kind of minimisations and abdications of responsibility which police and social workers hear from perpetrators of domestic violence every day. ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Meanwhile, EU academics have been told that HM Government doesn't want advice from all those greasy surrender monkeys leaching money from all our noble British experts because they might give the whole friggin game away.
The inmates have taken over the asylum.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Meanwhile, EU academics have been told that HM Government doesn't want advice from all those greasy surrender monkeys leaching money from all our noble British experts because they might give the whole friggin game away.
I'll tell you what, Ms Rudd, why don't you go the whole hog and just force them across the channel today whilst whistling "who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler".
FFS. They're all completely mad.
If HMG wants pro-Brexit economists to advise Davis, Fox and Johnson it won't have many to choose from period.
Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If HMG wants pro-Brexit economists to advise Davis, Fox and Johnson it won't have many to choose from period.
They'll have to clone Patrick Minford to advise us on Juche.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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The process has been slow, but deliberate:
1. Those receiving government grants cannot criticise the government
2. Non UK nationals cannot advise the government.
3. All of the expects agree with us.
It is a standard approach of abuse and domination. You dismiss everyone who disagrees with you, and they say that you must be right because everyone of significance agrees with you.
Seen it so often.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If HMG wants pro-Brexit economists to advise Davis, Fox and Johnson it won't have many to choose from period.
They could just go Trump.
"We've read many reports, from the best economists..."
Posted by Callan (# 525) on
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Apparently the plan is now to insist that expectant mothers bring a passport with them to the maternity wing. So what are we going to do when they can't provide the relevant documentation? Let them die in a corner somewhere? Words fail me. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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