Ship of Fools: Uncle Pete, Castro, Trump & Brexit have nothing on this

Thread: Uncle Pete, Castro, Trump & Brexit have nothing on this Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

The UK government for underpaying tax credits to tens of thousand of disabled people. This is all because one department (the Department of Work and Pensions) did not share information with another (HMRC, which handles tax matters).

You would have thought that now that the error has been discovered the government would reimburse those who have lost thousands of pounds but no, they are paying the arrears for this year alone and hiding behind the usual "You should have checked it" mantra, which given the difficulty of finding the algorithm for calculating tax credits is horseshit.

I hope the officials* concerned get hauled up in front of a parliamentary committee and given the roasting of their lives.

*Not ministers. This is standard operational practice and the civil servants need to be made uncomfortable here.

Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :

Grrr, I do hope that those who have been overpaid in either welfare or those who have underpaid their taxes get the same ability to tell the government "you should have checked".

Posted by Teekeey Misha (# 18604) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
*Not ministers. This is standard operational practice and the civil servants need to be made uncomfortable here.

Surely, if it is "standard operational practice" then it is administrative policy? Officials are not responsible for policy:

quote:
Originally uttered by Sir Humphrey Appleby:
I do see that there is a real dilemma here. In that, while it has been government policy to regard policy as a responsibility of Ministers and administration as a responsibility of Officials, the questions of administrative policy can cause confusion between the policy of administration and the administration of policy, especially when responsibility for the administration of the policy of administration conflicts, or overlaps with, responsibility for the policy of the administration of policy.

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :

Given that the government is short of readies, perhaps they could work out who is responsible and take the discrepancy out of their wages. Starting with the Secretary of State and working down.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

The tax system of the UK is a disgrace.

The thousands of exemptions and caveats within the tax legislation is impenetrable to all but specialists.

The complexity of the system leaves it more open to fraud than something simpler. And the fact that it can be altered without warning twice a year leaves thousands at the mercy of an army of bureaucrats who all too often don't understand the rules they're meant to be applying.

Above all else, the official culture of the administering body - HMRC - is one where every citizen is viewed as being automatically devious, untruthful and in the wrong. Any government of whatever hue which thinks that HMRC is in any way, shape or form "fit-for-purpose" should be ashamed of itself.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
*Not ministers. This is standard operational practice and the civil servants need to be made uncomfortable here.
Surely, if it is "standard operational practice" then it is administrative policy? Officials are not responsible for policy:

Only ministers can impose change. Officials don't, often for good reason, but there is no good reason here, just historic meanness.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

I'm only a consumer here, but I think to lump all govt departments together does a gross injustice to, particularly those who used to be the Inland Revenue, and the DWP band what used to be customs and excise. Of course, IR and C & E have been long merged, but in staffing and culture terms they are still very different beasts. In my dealings with tax officials, I have always found them courteous, respectful and fair

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Given that the government is short of readies, perhaps they could work out who is responsible and take the discrepancy out of their wages.

It's a nice idea, but Gordon Brown isn't on the payroll any more.

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
Given that the government is short of readies, perhaps they could work out who is responsible and take the discrepancy out of their wages.
It's a nice idea, but Gordon Brown isn't on the payroll any more.

Gordon Brown wasn't responsible for government policy between 2011-2014, unless I'm about to wake up and find Bobby Ewing in the shower.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

If Gordon Brown was responsible for the entire global financial crash, imagine the power he has over your puny job.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

They should get back pay. The argument that "they should have checked" is a pitiful pile of shit. As others have said, tax law is extremely complex, which is why the wealthy can employ the people to fiddle as much as possible, and the poor can't.

Maybe the government should have checked what Brexit means. Perhaps MPs should have checked their expenses allowances.

Pay them back, you bunch of scheming, crooked shitheads.

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

I underpaid tax one year (by about three hundred quid) and, in order to maintain my feeling of moral superiority over Vodafone, I informed HMRC.

It took them about two years to sort out. I can understand why people don't bother.

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