Ship of Fools: The incompetents or the lunatics UK election

Thread: The incompetents or the lunatics UK election Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

I have hated this election with vengeance all choices seem terrible. Neither side seems to have a clue & the Libdems have been abandoned in the middle rudderless without hope.

It is like choosing which foot to shoot myself in.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

I know what you mean.

My Green Party mate has hoisted his banner on our gate (he did ask first). So now I feel obliged to vote green. This seems OK to me on the basis that the larger the number of green votes, the more possible it is that whoever gets in may feel emboldened in that direction.

George Galloway is standing as an independent here and seems (judging by banners in the street) to be popular with Asians, despite our Labour constituency party's all-Asian shortlist of possible replacements for Gerald Kaufman. I wonder what's going on.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I am with you on hating the election and the whole process.

I have to decide whether to vote with my heart - for the party whose ideal are closest to mine - or my head - for the candidate most likely to oust the sitting Tory.

It always makes me so angry that we have such an adversarial voting and political system here. Yes, I am a supporter of PR, because that gives me a chance to reflect what I want, not what I don't.

As the US election showed very clearly, when the choices are all bad, the loser is democracy itself. More people wanted Hilary as president, but I suspect a lot of them just didn't want Trump as president.

While we maintain a FPTP system, Western "democracy" is fundamentally broken.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

SC, I'm going to suggest now is not the time for scruples...

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

The British Summer weather appears to have cast it's vote. It is fuckin PISSING DOWN!!

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

And it's not even a Bank Holiday!

It has however been D-Day weather!

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

There's something about the British sense of humour which reassures me. We may be heading for more Tory cuts ad nauseam, but I can laugh at people's wry comedy. There's nowt so queer as folk, cept thee and me, and I reckon th'art a bit of a barmcake.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

The usual British Summer Gloom here - grey skies, a chilly wind, and hints of rain later. Still, my local Polling Station, and also the one in Our Place's church hall, seem to be doing brisk business.

IJ

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
The British Summer weather appears to have cast it's vote. It is fuckin PISSING DOWN!!

I was in London last year the day of the Brexit vote, and I remember the rain pouring down so hard that even my taxi driver commented on it (and I'm pretty sure London taxi drivers are used to seeing a bit of rain!).

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :

I'm watching an episode of The Handmaid's Tale to cheer myself up...

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

It's got quite sunny here - good for Labour, I hope.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's got quite sunny here - good for Labour, I hope.

Tipping down, so it's no surprise that party workers are encouraging voters to get along to the polling station.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

I'm pretty bloody mad that there are reports of young people being turned away from polls in places like Keele. Disgusting.

[Mad]

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Can you provide a link to those reports?

IJ

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

It's on the Guardian election day blog here

This sounds like something which could get very serious very quickly.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
It has however been D-Day weather!

Indeed so.
And how many Allied lives did that typically British June weather Window save? Answer many, not a few.

It is fine here now and I have cast my vote, not at Theressa's feet.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

If you can't figure out the better choice from those available at this election then the problem is you, not the available choices.

Posted by stonespring (# 15530) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's got quite sunny here - good for Labour, I hope.

I'm very confused. In the US bad weather means low turnout which is almost always good for Republicans. The poor, the young, the disabled, single parents, people on shift work, and racial/ethnic minorities all are more likely to vote for Democrats and less likely to vote at all in bad weather (although African-American women tend to vote in remarkably high numbers, at least during presidential elections, no matter what). Meanwhile, the elderly, well-to-do, and white are more likely to vote Republican and tend to vote come hell or high water. Why would things be different in the UK in this election?

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I'm pretty bloody mad that there are reports of young people being turned away from polls in places like Keele. Disgusting.

I was reading about that. I think there and Portsmouth (I think) might find they need a re-election.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's got quite sunny here - good for Labour, I hope.
I'm very confused. In the US bad weather means low turnout which is almost always good for Republicans. The poor, the young, the disabled, single parents, people on shift work, and racial/ethnic minorities all are more likely to vote for Democrats and less likely to vote at all in bad weather (although African-American women tend to vote in remarkably high numbers, at least during presidential elections, no matter what). Meanwhile, the elderly, well-to-do, and white are more likely to vote Republican and tend to vote come hell or high water. Why would things be different in the UK in this election?

They aren't different for much the same reasons. Conservative voters vote whatever, Labour voters are more likely to see rain and stay indoors. So, sunshine is good for Labour.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

I'm surprised - after all, Tory voters are more likely to be bald, so get sunned and rained on more. Perhaps they are wealthier and can better afford umbrellas and parasols?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Tories traditionally had better systems for getting the vote out (lifts to the polling station etc). Of course Labour is also strong at this in their heartlands.

Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

Just going to see the exit polls I dread what ever it says.. Bad, very bad or extremely bad.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Wow. Looks like a hung parliament

Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

If this is correct the UK won't be able to negotiate article 50 and there will be another election before the end of the year.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Wow. Looks like a hung parliament

Not according to Ashcroft Polls which have often gone against the norm but proved accurate in the past.

[Frown]

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Main learning point, don't hire Lynton Crosby.

Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

Or if running a campaign based on the personality of the leader. Have a leader with a personality.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Main learning point, don't hire Lynton Crosby.

Former Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd (not to be confused with Amber Rudd*) seems to agree

* though she might, too

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Wow. Looks like a hung parliament

Correct.

Hang the lot of 'em was the old cynics cry from yesteryear.
Don't say things like that in squeaky clean 2017.

Fact : Corbyn picked up more 'Likes' on Twitter than May.
That is where battles are won or lost in this age.

This is the second time in as many years that Tory has rolled the dice when they didn't need to and lost. Time to Get with it you might have thought.

Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

Tories going to work with DUP that is a recipe for another election..

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

But calling another election is rife with danger. For one thing, people might well be pissed off with yet another vote, and might take it out on whoever called it. We could be in for a few months of Mexican stand-off. It also depends on whether Labour are on a roll, or have peaked. If the polls head up for Labour, the Tories will not dare call an election. I suppose if Boris comes in, the polls may change.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Difficult to to say if folk are getting pissed off with turning out to vote. There does appear to be some kind of reconnect with politics going on particularly among the young.

Like many here I remember the two successive and inconclusive Elections of the 70s.
Ahh, turmoil ain't what it used to be ....

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Another election soon might keep the young engaged in politics before they get distracted by the launch of the next iPhone.

But, for the rest of us going to the polls 7 times in 3 years is a lot - especially for those who get actively involved in campaigns and stuff. We might appreciate a clear 12 months before the politicians start spending obscene amounts of cash driving around the country in slogan emblazoned buses rather than doing the job we elected them to do.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Morning all. I am fortified by bacon, having gone to bed at six (no, I have no idea why I do these things either).

A couple of thoughts.

1. It wasn't Jack Daniels. It turned out to be an entire prescient bottle of Bushmills. And very fine it is too.

2. Overheard on twitter: "The DUP are the political wing of the seventeenth century."

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

I'm still reeling from the idea that a small handful of throughly obnoxious arseholes are now holding the country hostage and the Tories don't give a shit. They must realise how dangerous this is for them - either that or they're plainly fucking stupid.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

They've spent five centuries honing their battle cry of "NO!".

So much for Corbyn's alleged links with the IRA. At least he never decided to govern with them...

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Sky are now reporting that the DUP haven't firmly agreed to getting into government with May.

According to the reports, they think they've agreed to continued discussions not an agreement.

What an utter trainwreck.

Mind you, I guess May should have known that the DUP were better at negotiating in their own interest than she is.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

She couldn't negotiate a meal deal at McD's.

The DUP will have her for breakfast, God bless their gay-hating, evolution-denying, terrorist-sympathising ways.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

See, if I was the DUP I'd be laying out the minimum concessions for co-operation. Leaving aside all the gay-bashing bollocks, that's got to involve something about their vision for NI and putting themselves in a position to crush SF and/or Nationalism.

Because it would be stupid not to, and to be fair, they've got absolutely nothing at all to lose by demanding it.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Except that NI is now majority republican/neutral and majority remain. The DUP are on the wrong side of history *and* demographics. They'll only crush SF in their dreams.

Fuck 'em. May's just got into bed with a bunch of proddy terrorists, and we should be reminding everyone of that, daily. Twice daily.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Except that NI is now majority republican/neutral and majority remain. The DUP are on the wrong side of history *and* demographics. They'll only crush SF in their dreams.

But they've got the opportunity laid out in front of them, and they've got no reason to not try to use it. SF has them on the ropes in the Assembly and Unionism is in the decline in NI apparently. So here is a golden ticket to bypass all that stuff and to make a mark which cannot be reversed - by using the powers of the UK government to fatally undermine Stormont and to kill off any talk of closer links to the Republic.

I agree that in a lot of senses this would be incredibly stupid. But in another way it is an opportunity they can't really pass up.

quote:
Fuck 'em. May's just got into bed with a bunch of proddy terrorists, and we should be reminding everyone of that, daily. Twice daily.

Quite so.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Doc Tor, congratulations on the purchase of your bottle of Bushmills. Clearly, the Spirit was upon you, and you was a-prophesying...

[Help]

What others have said about the Definitely Unhinged Party.

IJ

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
We might appreciate a clear 12 months before the politicians start spending obscene amounts of cash driving around the country in slogan emblazoned buses rather than doing the job we elected them to do.

Thinking that once the dust settles on this latest apparent shambles the Tories, with their new coalition lapdog, will be able to govern until 2022?

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Doc Tor, congratulations on the purchase of your bottle of Bushmills. Clearly, the Spirit was upon you, and you was a-prophesying...

What others have said about the Definitely Unhinged Party.

IJ

A whiskey from Norn Iron. How appropriate.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Thinking that once the dust settles on this latest apparent shambles the Tories, with their new coalition lapdog, will be able to govern until 2022?

I don't think the dust is going to settle. I think a long term government with a majority of 10 is basically impossible and would require all the other parties to stand aside and let their crappy policies run through the Commons. I can't see any reason why they'd do that.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Corbyn might try and deliberately fuck up every motion that the Tories push through in order to force another Election. Quite honestly my head hurts to even think about this so I will be shoving it back in the sand.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

In the 15 years when we lived in Northern Ireland, we always regarded our general election votes as basically wasted; the NI parties were far too small and insignificant to make any difference to what happened at Westminster.

Now it looks as though what we used to refer to as the "Monster Raving Unionist Party" are going to hold at least part of the balance of power, with all their mindless, reactionary bigotry.

Oh dear. [Frown]

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

If one lies down with a dog, one rises with fleas.

Tories + DUPES = a marriage made in Heaven.

NOT.

IJ

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

We need a suitable label for the government May is trying to concoct. Perhaps the the UCon, of the May UCon government ?

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :

I like the formulation on Twitter: "Lame Duck a l'orange".

Coincidentally I am currently listening to "Mechanical Meltdown" by Electric Six.

"Mechanical meltdown, it should be thrown away... broken machine is here to stay".

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

I would have thought the classic "Gay Bar" would have been more appropriate for the DUP...

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
We need a suitable label for the government May is trying to concoct. Perhaps the the UCon, of the May UCon government ?

A coalition of deplorables.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:
If this is correct the UK won't be able to negotiate article 50 and there will be another election before the end of the year.

So when will it be? Poll in the Circus.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
We need a suitable label for the government May is trying to concoct. Perhaps the the UCon, of the May UCon government ?

Channel 4s The Last Leg has May DUP (Pronounced Made up).

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
We need a suitable label for the government May is trying to concoct. Perhaps the the UCon, of the May UCon government ?
A coalition of deplorables.

A coalition of crackpots.

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I would have thought the classic "Gay Bar" would have been more appropriate for the DUP...

Girl, have you got any money? I want to spend all your money! I want to spend it etc, etc.

Also works for the general attitude of Northern Irish business to Arlene Foster during the ash for cash business.

It strikes me that Mrs May and Mrs Foster have something in common. Not least that if either of them had a shred of conscience they would both have resigned by now.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Corbyn might try and deliberately fuck up every motion that the Tories push through in order to force another Election. Quite honestly my head hurts to even think about this so I will be shoving it back in the sand.

Judging from the interview he's giving at the moment he plans to, shall we say, "constructively amend" things, including the Queen's Speech. Much better than straight sabotage.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Corbyn might try and deliberately fuck up every motion that the Tories push through in order to force another Election.

And what would Brenda from Bristol have to say about that?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

'kin Nora. The bloody Labour party and in particular that utter idiot McDonnell is in danger of losing the gains they made in the election.

Moron. Why would you talk about leaving the Single Market?

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
This is the platform they were elected on. I think they probably recognise the EU won't give continued membership of the single market if free movement ends. And whatever you and I may want, it's pretty clear that most people who voted leave wanted to end free movement as they understood it.

Because promising to get continued membership of the single market is probably a hostage to fortune that can not be rescued.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Because you don't tell everyone that. Only an utter dipshit would tell everyone that.

It might be that the end result is leaving the SM, but the Labour position should clearly be to get the best possible deal for the country and opposing the ideologues in the Tory party who want to leave everything because of those damn foreigners. By tipping their hand now, they're giving succor to David Davis to go to the EU and spout more bollocks about getting a better deal than we had in the EU.

Posted by romanesque (# 18785) on :

I've enjoyed every minute, as it once again proves party politics to be the exercise in institutional hypocrisy it has always been. If it wasn't an establishment career for Oxbridge PPE graduates, knowing what's best for everyone else would be a pathological condition with a range of medication and high street charity shops.

Conviction politicians can be counted on the fingers of two hands and most are in the Lords. Even the estimable Corbyn has only gained his current position by keeping his trap shut on all the issues he used to be vocal about. To see them squirming is a ray of sunshine to remember in the stormy days to come.

Posted by Helen-Eva (# 15025) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
I like the formulation on Twitter: "Lame Duck a l'orange".

That is VERY clever. Respect [not the George Galloway kind] to whoever came up with it.

[ 12. June 2017, 10:52: Message edited by: Helen-Eva ]

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