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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Knees-up in Canterbury
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american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
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Posted
I do hope that a Mystery Worshipper is to tell us all about it.
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
"it" is a link.
"the Church Service to celebrate the Tercentenary of the formation of English Freemasonry"
Or did I misunderstand your ?
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american piskie
Shipmate
# 593
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Posted
I only ask because I see some of Our Ecumenical Partners take this as one more sign that the C of E is irredeemably lost.
Posts: 356 | From: Oxford, England, UK | Registered: Jun 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I do apologise - I simply didn't see that 'it' was in red!
I'll have a look at the link later, but for the time being, I thought English Freemasonry went back much further than 300 years....
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
....and a lot of them were probably involved in building Canterbury Cathedral.
That said, I'm never quite at ease with the idea of Freemasonry and Christianity, though I can't really define why.
Wasn't there a thread about this subject recently? The service might well be worth MWing, but I suspect one would need to be Mason (and therefore perhaps not entirely unbiased) to get in.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
In my experience, the secrecy within Freemasonery, is not always that secret.
I am a non-mason and I cannot say whether admission into the Cathedral for the service, is open, or closed.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
The Cathedral website indicates that the Nave & Quire are closed 'for a private service' until 1pm, with only the crypt being open to visitors.
Masonic secrecy rules, presumably, at 'the heart of the worldwide Anglican Communion'.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
[QB] ....and a lot of them were probably involved in building Canterbury Cathedral.
Not to mention a certain number of them sitting as Supreme Governor.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
I only ask because I see some of Our Ecumenical Partners take this as one more sign that the C of E is irredeemably lost.
As the CoE has been holding all sorts of services related to Masonry since forever and as many prelates over the centuries have been Masons, I suspect that as irredeemably-lost indicators go, this one registered a long time ago or not at all. And perhaps I forgot to mention that most of the Supreme Governors of the CoE have been Masons.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The Cathedral website indicates that the Nave & Quire are closed 'for a private service' until 1pm, with only the crypt being open to visitors.
Masonic secrecy rules, presumably, at 'the heart of the worldwide Anglican Communion'.
IJ
Are private, ticket-only services all that uncommon at cathedrals? My old school used to have its annual Commemoration and Carol Services in Canterbury Cathedral, and I can't remember whether these were ticket-only events or not. It wouldn't surprise me if they were, or at least the special centenary Commemoration we had there in '81.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The last Archbishop of Canterbury to have been a freemason was Fisher; AFAIK the only current bishop 'on the square' is Jonathan Baker.
Although initiated into a 'navy' lodge after WWI George VI was not an enthusiastic member of the craft and Prince Philip has not attended a lodge since his initiation in 1952.
None of the Queen's sons are masons.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The last Archbishop of Canterbury to have been a freemason was Fisher; AFAIK the only current bishop 'on the square' is Jonathan Baker.
Although initiated into a 'navy' lodge after WWI George VI was not an enthusiastic member of the craft and Prince Philip has not attended a lodge since his initiation in 1952.
None of the Queen's sons are masons.
+Jonathan Baker - not any more. He gave up Freemasonery on becoming a bishop.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
While I gather that Prince Charles is not a mason, here is a lodge named after him, should he decided to join up.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The Cathedral website indicates that the Nave & Quire are closed 'for a private service' until 1pm, with only the crypt being open to visitors.
Masonic secrecy rules, presumably, at 'the heart of the worldwide Anglican Communion'.
IJ
Are private, ticket-only services all that uncommon at cathedrals? My old school used to have its annual Commemoration and Carol Services in Canterbury Cathedral, and I can't remember whether these were ticket-only events or not. It wouldn't surprise me if they were, or at least the special centenary Commemoration we had there in '81.
On a slight tangent, a jaunt up to town this weekend took me to the early said HC at one of the more high profile churches on the fringes of clubland this morning. I was a little disconcerted to see handwritten signs on the end of some pews reading "VIP zone".... I couldn't help thinking that such a zone was probably better reserved (pun intended) for the altar.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Sounds like a new version of the old pew-rents system...
(The free seats for the poor and unwashed presumably being in the furthest aisles, the remotest gallery - perhaps not, in case they are tempted to expectorate onto the Gentry - or at the very back of the church.)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Sounds like a new version of the old pew-rents system...
(The free seats for the poor and unwashed presumably being in the furthest aisles, the remotest gallery - perhaps not, in case they are tempted to expectorate onto the Gentry - or at the very back of the church.)
IJ
I'm not so sure.
I've been to a number of ticket admission services over the years (including the last Canadian gathering of the Burma Star Association), state funerals, and other stuff. Knowing a bit about the organizing of things, it is often just a matter of: a) crowd control, and b) getting people to focus on attending (if they need to get a ticket, they will be more likely to turn up). As well, certain categories of VIP get security coverage (even the most obscure prince will have a detail) and ticket admission gives much comfort to those concerned with this stuff.
I tend to feel that it's not as necessary as they think, but I'm a bit bolshie and spontaneous in such matters.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
IME ticketing for any event in a church can be a potential minefield.
One of the things churches need to do is check whether or not they have been in receipt of charitable funds that places restrictions on ticketing. One church where I played in my youth had a plaque in the vestry from a charity that specifically stated that funds had been given to enlarge the church with wording along the lines of "so that all services can be free of any admission charge or other restriction including pew rent".
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Rosa Gallica officinalis
Shipmate
# 3886
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Posted
Ticketing admission doesn't necessarily mean that payment is required. It simply enables people who plan to go to something likely to be over subscribed to get a ticket which guarantees them a seat, and saves turning up queuing and getting sent home because it's full.
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Come for tea, come for tea, my people.
Posts: 874 | From: The Hemlock Hideout | Registered: Jan 2003
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
The difficulty with free tickets is that, not having paid anything, ticket-holders don't always bother to come. That's OK if you have a "stand-by" system in operation for those who are prepared to "take a chance" on the day, not so good if you've told potential punters to stay away - and then end up with lots of empty seats.
FWIW some local Councils have ticketed, but free, car parks. That sounds silly; but it means that they can monitor the length of vehicles' stays, with penalties for exceeding the time permitted.
[ 23. February 2017, 16:48: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis:
Ticketing admission doesn't necessarily mean that payment is required. It simply enables people who plan to go to something likely to be over subscribed to get a ticket which guarantees them a seat, and saves turning up queuing and getting sent home because it's full.
That's been my experience with ticketed church services. The last couple of times we've consecrated a Bishop, for example, tickets were divided among all the parishes in the Diocese so that the people who live nearest the Cathedral wouldn't get all the seats and the people driving several hours wouldn't be left out. Shortly before the service any empty seats were made available first-come-first-served. There was absolutely no money involved.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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