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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: No Allelulias in Lent
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Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
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Posted
For some Christians there is a tradition of not saying 'Allelulia' during Lent. I don't particularly want to debate the reasons for such abstemience, but I do have a couple of questions for those who follow the practice.
Is God to be praised during Lent?
If 'YES' then how do you vocalise praise, instead of saying Allelulia, what praises are appropriate?
If 'NO' , why not?
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Posts: 265 | Registered: May 2001
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
For some Christians there is a tradition of not saying 'Allelulia' during Lent. I don't particularly want to debate the reasons for such abstemience, but I do have a couple of questions for those who follow the practice.
Is God to be praised during Lent?
If 'YES' then how do you vocalise praise, instead of saying Allelulia, what praises are appropriate?
If 'NO' , why not?
God is certainly praised during Lent. The reason why Alleuia is omitted is that Alleuia denotes joy, and we fast from joy, to prepare our hearts for the festive joy of Easter.
We praise God during Lent especially as the source of mercy and forgiveness as it is a season to be mindful of our sins and brokenness, acknowledging that it is only through God, that we have life in His name.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
In churches with a tradition of having some form of 'Alleluia' acclamation before the Gospel reading, this is replaced during Lent by singing/saying 'Praise to you, O Christ, King of eternal glory'.
So yes, praise continues!
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
In churches with a tradition of having some form of 'Alleluia' acclamation before the Gospel reading, this is replaced during Lent by singing/saying 'Praise to you, O Christ, King of eternal glory'.
So yes, praise continues!
IJ
With due respect, isn't "praise to you" the same as "Alleuia"?
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Well, sort of. I think it's just meant to be a substitute for the A-word.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
In my tradition, some congregations will drop the Alleluia verses during Lent for the above reasons. But other congregations will continue to use them.
Their argument is that the Sundays IN the Lenten season are not counted as a day of Lent (if they were, then there would be 46 days in lent instead of 40), They see each Sunday in Lent as a "little Easter" that should be celebrated with joy.
Depends on how pietistic you want to be.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
In my tradition, some congregations will drop the Alleluia verses during Lent for the above reasons. But other congregations will continue to use them.
Likewise with my tribe—some congregations will avoid Alleluias and some will not. Our place falls in the later category, though the choir director may use more solemn, less joyful tunes for sung Alleluias.
quote:
Their argument is that the Sundays IN the Lenten season are not counted as a day of Lent (if they were, then there would be 46 days in lent instead of 40), They see each Sunday in Lent as a "little Easter" that should be celebrated with joy.
Didn’t the first ecumenical council of Nicaea forbid kneeling on Sunday for just that reason?
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Miss Amanda would need her smelling salts if she MWd a Lenten service where Alleluia was uttered.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
I think this belongs in Ecclesiantics. Hold on.
/hosting
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
I would say omitting the 'Alleluia!' is more a kind of liturgical marker that we're in a different, more solemn and penitential season; rather than God isn't to be praised, or that some heavy theological revolution has taken place.
A bit like including the Summary of the Law (or Commandments) or the Recitation of the Beatitudes is carried out for certain seasons. Same for leaving out the Gloria. The words still apply, even if not publicly recited, but the change of liturgical emphasis marks a different focus in the calendar for that period of time.
There are special acclamations for Easter eg, which aren't carried on throughout the year. But we are supposed to always praise God, joyfully, throughout nevertheless, I think.
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
At the (CofE) primary school where I was deputy head the vicar was very high church. She insisted on no Alleluias during lent. Several teachers were Methodists and Salvation Army - we found it amusing.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I would say omitting the 'Alleluia!' is more a kind of liturgical marker that we're in a different, more solemn and penitential season; rather than God isn't to be praised, or that some heavy theological revolution has taken place.
A bit like including the Summary of the Law (or Commandments) or the Recitation of the Beatitudes is carried out for certain seasons. Same for leaving out the Gloria. The words still apply, even if not publicly recited, but the change of liturgical emphasis marks a different focus in the calendar for that period of time.
There are special acclamations for Easter eg, which aren't carried on throughout the year. But we are supposed to always praise God, joyfully, throughout nevertheless, I think.
Yes, I think this is exactly so. God is still praised, and there is nothing 'wrong' about saying the A-word - but some traditions chose not to, as part of a whole suite of liturgical changes which collectively reinforce the concept that this is a 'season set apart'...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I would say omitting the 'Alleluia!' is more a kind of liturgical marker that we're in a different, more solemn and penitential season; rather than God isn't to be praised, or that some heavy theological revolution has taken place.
A bit like including the Summary of the Law (or Commandments) or the Recitation of the Beatitudes is carried out for certain seasons. Same for leaving out the Gloria. The words still apply, even if not publicly recited, but the change of liturgical emphasis marks a different focus in the calendar for that period of time.
There are special acclamations for Easter eg, which aren't carried on throughout the year. But we are supposed to always praise God, joyfully, throughout nevertheless, I think.
Thanks Anselmina...this is currently the best explanation anyone has offered to me in a number of years.
I can see that is helpful for some to mark a particular season with special fasting and liturgy. I guess I am over - reacting somewhat to those who seem to display their disapproval of people like me for whom Allelulias may be offered any time. But I guess I should expect some dissonance as a non-'liturgical' Christian who currently worships in a slightly liturgical community. ( BTW I do recognise we all have liturgy, no matter how informal our traditions are.)
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Some years back - I think when it was announced that Archbishop Vincent Nichols was to be translated to Westminster - there was a thread here in which someone posted a link to an interview he gave in which he was asked about the Eucharist. In it, he explained that the bread and wine are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ.
I commented at the time that this was directly at odds with Catholic teaching (and plain observation), which specifically states that there is no change of form.
I was quickly corrected by fellow shipmates who pointed out that I was making the classical mistake of assuming that etymology alone dictates the meaning and usage of a word. Many, even most, people understand transform to mean a general change and not specifically a change in form.
Alleluia is literally an exhortation to praise God. However, it has long been used as an acclamation of joy at the Christian Passover.
When I'm able I'll post a link to an article by my bishop in which he highlights this from a liturgical and patristic perspective, from St Augustine telling us that in the African church, Alleluia was anciently restricted to Sundays and the Paschal season, to some of the western fathers telling us of its more liberal use in the western European tradition, we've it was used throughout the year apart from in Lent - all reflecting its meaning as an expression of joy at the Christian Passover.
Whether the literal, etymological of the word is reflected in this use, the fact is that this has been the classical understanding of the word in the Western Church for at least 1500 years. Even for those who might not subscribe to the concept of such things being hallowed by antiquity, it is at least evidence that etymology, taken alone, fails us when determining how a word should be used.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
we've
Where.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
In the days when we sang the propers at the back of the English Hymnal, thye Aleluia came after the gradual. In Lent, it was repleced by 'the tract'.
So it isn't the A word that is dropped. Just the liturgical component.
Well, it's also dropped from use in the office, most noticeably in antiphons.
The word appears nowhere in the Catholic liturgy in Lent; in the Church of England it only appears in psalmody, where it is often omitted.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Here's the article I mentioned upthread.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
I'm sorry; try this.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
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Posted
While it's all well and good to know the history of the use of the word down through traditions, I feel that such qualifications on when it may or may not be used are a tad too much 'organised religion' for me.
Even in the darkest of times, my redeemed sinful soul gets caught by the wonder of God, the power of the Christ Event, and the hope that living in the post-resurrection age brings. My heart will beat Alleluia, and my tongue may sometimes utter the same. (even in Lent, forgive me)
As an example of what I mean, and you may be shocked at this, I recall that at my first wife's funeral, we opened with 'Christ the Lord is Risen Today, Hallelujah' (our choice, and I also want it at my funeral!)
Perhaps Leonard Cohen had a bit of it right when he sang of 'broken alleluias'?
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.
Posts: 265 | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
I've only ever heard the term organised religion used in a way that seems as though it ought to have negative connotations but I must confess I've never understood it.
quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
Even in the darkest of times, my redeemed sinful soul gets caught by the wonder of God, the power of the Christ Event, and the hope that living in the post-resurrection age brings. My heart will beat Alleluia, and my tongue may sometimes utter the same. (even in Lent, forgive me).
There is nothing to forgive. This resonates with me in a very personal way. I love the rite of the sealing of the Alleluia (at the bottom of the linked article) for a similar reason: it recognises that Resurrection joy lives on in our hearts regardless of the focus at any given time.
What sat uneasily with me was what I might have wrongly inferred from your posts, which was that the literal meaning of the word was in some way a sole determining factor in how we use it in our worship of God.
quote:
As an example of what I mean, and you may be shocked at this, I recall that at my first wife's funeral, we opened with 'Christ the Lord is Risen Today, Hallelujah' (our choice, and I also want it at my funeral!)
I'm sorry that you experienced such a loss, Felafool.
Though there's nothing shocking about the choice of hymnody at all. Our funeral rites are replete with Alleluias, again citing the joy of the Resurrection permeating even the most grief-stricken times in our lives.
[ 16. February 2018, 09:35: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
As an example of what I mean, and you may be shocked at this, I recall that at my first wife's funeral, we opened with 'Christ the Lord is Risen Today, Hallelujah' (our choice, and I also want it at my funeral!)
Not shocked at all; I think that was eminently appropriate. But then, we consider the funeral—called in our liturgical materials the Service of Witness to the Resurrection—to be an Easter service. The liturgical color at our funerals is always white, even during Lent.
I’ve made very clear that the first hymn at my funeral is to be “All Creatures of Our God and King,” with all of its Alleluias.
quote:
Perhaps Leonard Cohen had a bit of it right when he sang of 'broken alleluias'?
Exactly what I was thinking.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
I've only ever heard the term organised religion used in a way that seems as though it ought to have negative connotations but I must confess I've never understood it.
Having been a vicar for more years than I care to count, I have only ever experienced disorganised religion.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Having been a vicar for more years than I care to count, I have only ever experienced disorganised religion.
That gets three of these, ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Thank you.
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Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
[B}Having been a vicar for more years than I care to count, I have only ever experienced disorganised religion.{/B}
May I add my to that?
I admit when I used the term 'organised religion' above it did have a negative connotation - human intervention/regulation on what is appropriate worship. That is not to say that I believe 'organised religion' to be always negative. Indeed I know many instances where human interventions have facilitated worship. Mostly these come in the form of suggestions 'you may want to....' 'it may be helpful....' etc. What I find unhelpful is 'you should / should not do that'.
I apologise for any negativity, which I am trying to give up for Lent!
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.
Posts: 265 | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Anselmina for the win!
Of course worship is human-defined. Unless you think you have a direct line to God and how she demands we worship? And if we're going to worship together, as a body and not just as a collection of monads who happen to be in the same building at the same time, we will be doing some things together, which requires someone or rather someones to agree to forms that people can do in common. One may decry the choices they have made, but to me it makes no sense to decry the fact that choices were made, if one wants corporate worship.
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