Ship of Fools: Whoever is without sin

Thread: Whoever is without sin Board: The Laugh Judgment / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

Joke submitted by Coaster:

Jesus came upon a small crowd who had surrounded a young woman they believed to be an adulteress. They were preparing to stone her to death.

To calm the situation, Jesus said: "Whoever is without sin among you, let them cast the first stone."

Suddenly, an old lady at the back of the crowd picked up a huge rock and lobbed it at the young woman, scoring a direct hit on her head. The unfortunate young lady collapsed dead on the spot.

Jesus looked over towards the old lady and said: "Do you know, Mother, sometimes you really piss me off."

[ 11. July 2005, 09:00: Message edited by: Simon ]

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

I love it! [Killing me]

Of course, this is a very paradoxical joke, because presumably the very desire to stone her to death was sinful in itself, thus Mary (for it was she) would, by virtue of being in the crowd to start with, not be without sin, thus couldn't throw a stone. But now I've confused myself...

It's also a neat jab at the doctrine of Mary's sinlessness as applied to Jesus' comment. It's saying that, had Mary been present when Jesus actually said those words, she would have been justified in lobbing a rock at the adultress. Because she was without sin. Even though Jesus' words are generally interpreted as meaning "none of you is without sin, so leave her alone".

Would Mary have been justified in throuwing a stone? I don't think so, but then I don't believe Mary was without sin. But the joke certainly forces those who do believe that to wonder what Jesus might have said had His mother been there at the time of the actual Biblical incident...

Posted by Back-to-Front (# 5638) on :

It was mildly amusing the first time round, but some jokes wear thin with age.

Posted by Fool of a Took (# 7412) on :

I like the twist on the sinlessness of Mary - but I think I would have enjoyed it more without Jesus being so rude to his mother. (I know, I know, there's biblical precedent for that, too)

Somehow, "You know, mother, you're not helping" would have made the same point, but without the 'shock value' of Jesus being so vulgar and disrespectful to any old woman, let alone his mother. I suspect his vulgar and disrespectful comments were reserved for those abusers of power who least deserved respect.

That said, it's pretty darn funny.

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

I knew the joke, and so started laughing when the stone was thrown and didn't read the punchline given. I prefer the version I know which is 'Mother, how could you?' which is punchier than the one given. Had I read it properly, I'd've said 2 not 4 I think.

Carys

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

The first time I heard that joke it went like this:

Jesus confronted the crowd out to stone a woman caught in adultery. He looked angrily and sorrowfully at the mob and told them:

"You who are without sin cast the first stone."

A rock went whizzing past his ear.

"Oh, Mother, stop it!"

I sort of like the fill in the dots approach.

Posted by SteveTom (# 23) on :

I loved this one.
It's witty, rather than just raising a laugh by breaking taboos.
And it relies on a certain amount of religious knowledge, rather just trading on stereotypes.

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :

The first of the 1,568 times that I heard this joke, the punchline was merely, "Mum!"

I agree with the other Ship mate who enjoyed the 'inside joke' quality - I'm sure I laughed the first time I heard this one.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Isn't it interesting that Jesus himself didn't cast the first stone.

Or perhaps that is a different version of the joke.....

Posted by Mark M (# 9500) on :

I've loved this one ever since a friend told me it... [Killing me]

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

Hosting

Please expand your post beyond the one or two sentences required to tell us how funny / offensive / bemusing this joke is. Please tell us about why you found it funny / offensive / bemusing and perhaps why your context impinges. You could try some theology. You can in write pretty much what you like about this joke or other peoples reactions to it except how funny / offensive / bemusing it is in one sentence.

Pyx_e

Hosting

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

I had to think about this one and thanks to the people who supplied the elucidation above, without which it probably wouldn't have clicked for a bit.

Funny? Don't know. No, not really. It took me too long to work this one out, by which time the amusement value had dissipated.

Offensive? No, too far removed from religious imagery to be offensive in that context. The main character comes across as a fairly average, even blokey sort letting off steam at his mother. If you don't like swearing or disrespect to old ladies/mothers, it would be offensive in that regard.

Posted by Marquis (# 9750) on :

One of my all time favorites, although the punch line was "Mother, what have I told you about bothering me at work?", which I found to be more subtle.

The joke is funny because it takes a popular story and gives it a very human twist.

I wish more jokes were this human.

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :

I liked it. The surprise element (for Jesus) of having someone take him at his word in a way he can't rationally object to, but which pisses him off is the key for me. People who are always right, who you can't complain don't follow the rules, but manage to spin things to their advantage and are then innocently smug about it, do in fact piss most of us off from time to time, and its just funny to hear this being done to Jesus.

This particular telling, where Mary strikes the woman dead, is less funny than some - you get the death before the punch-line, and it is an emotionally charged effect that distracts from what is actually funny. Someone just being hit on the head is often funny. Someone being killed is generally fairly serious.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Newman's Own:
The first of the 1,568 times that I heard this joke, the punchline was merely, "Mum!"

The first time I heard it, the punchline was "Mo-ther!" the way a petulant teenager might say it.

Funny because of the image of our Lord and Savior having a point he's trying to make get messed up by his mom as well as the inside knowledge about Mary. For best effect the joke proceeds in quasi-Biblical language--ideally, just quoting the KJV verses--right up till the rock-throwing bit and Jesus' response, which should be narrated in contemporary idiom as quickly as possible. At least, I get more laughs when I tell it that way than any other.

ETA: Agree with Eliab that it works better with just Mary heaving the rock--the death is too strong and therefore distracting from what works in this joke.

[ 08. July 2005, 18:57: Message edited by: RuthW ]

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :

I first heard this joke delivered in the manner that Ruth mentioned - Jesus' words in classic KJV English, very dignified style, until the "Mum!" I, too, think it is more effective without the death - that is a distraction. I also think it is better without mentioning 'old lady' and 'young lady' - just hearing that a rock came hurling is enough.

Of course, both the incident in the Temple when he was aged 12 and the feast at Cana tell us that Jesus could be a bit rude and cheeky - his responding in the voice of an exasperated kid, after the elegant King James language, is quite effective.

Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :

I once actually began a sermon on Mary with a variation on this joke, although she just lobbed a rock (no word on whether she even got a hit, let alone killed the woman) and the punchline was, "You know, Mother, sometimes you really bug me."

It worked because the Biblical language leading up to the punchline was in keeping with what one might expect in dignified Anglican worship. And after they laughed (and it's worth noting that even the normally understated 8 o'clockers laughed heartily) they listened to the message, which was about the way in which we look at Mary -- normally, only at Christmas -- and how we might look at her.

So even though I know the joke, and even though I didn't care for some elements of this version, I laughed.

Posted by Paul Mason (# 7562) on :

Back when I was a GLE I wouldn't have found it funny I would have been puzzled that anyone thought Mary was sinless. I would also have found that belief vaguely offensive - but not enough to challenge anyone about it.

Now it's neither offensive nor funny.

Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :

Surely the joke is a pop at the belief that Mary is sinless? The idea seems to me to be that her sinlessness would have undermined Christ's redeeming powers in some way that is not really descibed by the joke?

It's averagely funny. Not offensive.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Back-to-Front:
It was mildly amusing the first time round, but some jokes wear thin with age.

rather like my hair. But in the case of this joke, it is now bald.

When I first heard it, it was mildly funny, but because it is about a doctrine that I don't agree with ( the sinlessness of Mary ), not very.

I think it makes a very interesting theological point, and so ( in some form ) could be used in a sermon. As with most jokes that I feel could be used in sermons, it isn't really that good, and is inoffensive because it is not against me.

Addendum to add that I can see some people finding it offensive ( in the sermon-type context ) because it supports the sinlessness of Mary. But then some people don't get humour.

[ 09. July 2005, 15:11: Message edited by: Schroedinger's cat ]

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :

Although it’s an old joke, I still find it funny, partly because it assumes a degree of intelligence of the reader (you have to know about the idea of Mary’s sinlessness).

It would have been more funny (and less offensive, not that it’s more than lightly offensive as is) with the briefer endings suggested, as it wouldn’t have involved putting some doubtful language on Jesus’ lips. It’s also funny because it attacks an idea that I find pretty amusing to begin with.

Is it offensive? I can understand some people being offended at a perceived slight to Mary, but then I would wonder if they actually taking the doctrine seriously enough.

Posted by Paul Mason (# 7562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Although it’s an old joke, I still find it funny, partly because it assumes a degree of intelligence of the reader (you have to know about the idea of Mary’s sinlessness).

It requires knowledge not intelligence.

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mason:

quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Although it’s an old joke, I still find it funny, partly because it assumes a degree of intelligence of the reader (you have to know about the idea of Mary’s sinlessness).
It requires knowledge not intelligence.

Er, no, intelligence - you have to apply knowledge of the doctrine. But it hardly seem the thing to quibble over here.

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

Go on, quibble.

P

Posted by Paul Mason (# 7562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mason:

quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
Although it’s an old joke, I still find it funny, partly because it assumes a degree of intelligence of the reader (you have to know about the idea of Mary’s sinlessness).
It requires knowledge not intelligence.
Er, no, intelligence - you have to apply knowledge of the doctrine. But it hardly seem the thing to quibble over here.

Without knowledge of the doctrine there's nothing to apply the intelligence to.

Let me spell it out for you. I'd never heard of this doctrine until recently. That doesn't make me stupid ok?

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paul Mason:
Without knowledge of the doctrine there's nothing to apply the intelligence to.

So you agree that it requires intelligence to apply the knowledge? Then your assertion that it doesn't require intelligence was wrong.

Posted by Zeke (# 3271) on :

It should be obvious that you need both. You need the knowledge that Mary was supposed to be without sin, and you need to have enough intelligence to see the connection in the joke. It is my opinion that you don't need a lot of either, though I think intelligence holds the edge. Remember, if you were Roman Catholic you would probably have known this from an early age, but unless you could apply one situation to the other, you still wouldn't understand the joke.

I think it is a very funny joke, but I agree that it is unnecessary to have anything but just a rock flying out from the crowd. Having the woman get killed is too much and takes away from the humor for me.

Posted by angelfish (# 8884) on :

V funny, because it pokes fun at what I believe is a false doctrine.

Offensive because of the swearing Jesus.

The neat thing about this joke is that it would still be funny (or perhaps funnier) tome without the element I find offensive.

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

only offensive because of the sinless Mary - but then, that's kind of why it's there - making fun of the doctrine of Mary being sinless - as others have already said.

Posted by inquisitiveunbeliever (# 9803) on :

I’ve never heard this joke before and it had me in stitches.

I don’t think this joke is meant to be an attack on anyone. I suspect that it is actually a catholic or anglo-catholic joke – the joke is that Mary gets one over on her son. It is also a warning against taking biblical sayings too literally. Moreover, the fact that it needs specific knowledge (or intelligence, I’m not getting into it!) tends to reinforce a group identity – it made me think of my catholic and anglo-catholic friends and have quite a warm feeling!

Of course, a lot of the humour does come from the bathos so to a certain extent it is making fun of Jesus, but really we are on Jesus’ side in this one – we’ve all been there! And jokes that make fun of holy figures tend to reinforce their holiness. After all, it wouldn’t be funny if this was how we expected Mary and Jesus to behave.

I am surprised though at how many people are offended by Jesus using the word ‘piss’. I think ‘you really bug me’ is equally good, but I’d be interested to know why people are particularly put off by this line. After all, what is wrong with showing Jesus being human and, indeed, angry? He wouldn't have gone around overturning tables and healing on the sabbath if he didn’t like to put people’s backs up!

PS I’ve just been told another version of this joke (he called it the ‘Protestant’ version) – instead of Mary throwing the stone, a huge rock falls from the sky and flattens the poor woman. Jesus says “Keep out of it, Dad!” This is a much darker and potentially more critical joke – after all, they are stoning the woman in accordance with the apparent wishes of the God of the Old Testament. Perhaps a lot of Christians would like Him to keep out of it!

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

I've always liked this one. [Cool]

Even back in my fundamentalist days--the bit about Mary's sinlessness gave it a frisson of taboo. I don't think it's really making mockery of any doctrines. It's just putting pieces together--"if any of you are without sin", Mary was (according to some) without sin, so if you put the two together...

I think the ending I originally heard was "Mother! You've got to stop doing this!". It's been a while since I've told it, but IIRC I have the rock hit the woman, but don't really get into whether she was killed or not. I could just say the rock missed her by a mile, instead. Hmmm.

Posted by corvette (# 9436) on :

I liked this joke - in Carys's version, "Oh Mother!" mostly because the first time i heard ot was from one of the most catholic of catholics i know, in supportive respose to the news i had to put round our largely catholic cohort of friends, that i was no longer part of a couple. It was thus his was of saying, I [and on behalf of this community, we] do not condemn you, how can we help; and i have never forgotten that. Thanks Nat. [Axe murder]

i think the swearing is wrong, doesn't meet with my concepts of what Jesus would do, and i certainly find the stone from heaven version unacceptable.

Posted by Zeke (# 3271) on :

Warm welcome to inquisitiveunbeliever! Hope you like it here.

Posted by tej (# 7913) on :

the first time I heard this joke the punch line was "Mother put down that stone".
I like that version best.
Mary does not get to throw the stone.

Posted by Glimmer (# 4540) on :

Fairly funny - requires a by-pass of the 'was Mary sinless' question. Therefore it is more suitable for the vast majority of non-Christian people who have only vague ideas of theology and doctrine.
Two improvements I agree with - the thrown stone does not kill; and Jesus' response is along the lines of 'Oh Mother' with no swearing.
To add the 'I'm at work' tag introduces a parallel joke, that of reducing Jesus' ministry to a sort of day job. But that's still funny, too.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by tej:
the first time I heard this joke the punch line was "Mother put down that stone".
I like that version best.
Mary does not get to throw the stone.

But why should Mary not throw the stone, is she is truly sinless?

And since the whole point of stoning was to kill the accused person, why should a stone thrown legitimately not then kill the victim?

The more people try to change the joke so that Mary doesn't throw the stone, or the stone once thrown doesn't kill, the more I love the original version presented here.

My reason for that is this: if Mary truly was sinless she had every right, according to Jesus' own words, to kill the woman. So she did [Big Grin]

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

Oh, and addition that missed the edit window: Jesus' exasperation is a great punchline, because we all know He was really trying to get the mob to leave the woman alone. But according to the doctrine of Mary's sinlessness He chose his words very badly indeed [Razz]

Posted by The Lady of the Lake (# 4347) on :

The first time I heard this joke I found it funny and still find it funny, but not because I was thinking of Mary's sinlessness (in which as a good protestant I disbelieve). I found it funny (and alarming) because I felt that it was making fun of the matriarchal undertow that often sees itself as the moral lynchpin of patriarchal groups. In other words, after hearing the joke, I imagined the original Biblical story with the men preparing to cast stones, but their motives were partly in order to honour the old matriarch by confirming her sense of not-being-an-adulteress and therefore of being the right sort of woman.

Posted by Marquis (# 9750) on :

When I first heard this joke the punchline was "Mother, how many times have I asked you not to bother me while I'm at work"?, which I find more funny than Christ being pissed off. It makes the joke more human (?) and highlights the relationship between Christ as man in conjuction with Christ as devine.

Posted by (gracia) (# 1812) on :

I love the image of a little old lady picking up a boulder & heaving it at the adultress.

I also love what Jesus says in this version, it sounds like a petulant teenager whose mother has just made him look silly.

Posted by Raspberry Rabbit (# 3080) on :

My goodness these jokes are all so old. It's like nobody has come up with a decent religious joke later than about 1982.

Posted by Deon (# 609) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fool of a Took:
I like the twist on the sinlessness of Mary - but I think I would have enjoyed it more without Jesus being so rude to his mother. (I know, I know, there's biblical precedent for that, too)

I agree.

The best version I know has the following punchline:

"And Jesus, quite exasperated, turned to the woman and said: "That wasn't an ORDER, Mother!"

Also solves the problem of Mary's "sin", I think...

Cheers

Posted by DaveF (# 10538) on :

I actually like the "piss me off" - adds a second and third layer to the joke albeit not especially good ones.

a) Mary is without sin - a nice joke on that issue. It does work well with that insiders "think about it..." aspect. Also raises theological issues about it.

b) Jesus is rude, wow shock value! Not clever but has humour of itself.

c) Mothers show us up. Even at our most public and respected moments a mother can do that to you. Jesus had a "human" relationship with his mother - hmm more interesting theology. I don't think this point is as well made with "Oh mother" or "Stop it mum". The true frustration comes with "you really piss me off" . Maybe "Why Do you always have have to ruin everything mother?" would do as well? But you need to get the pacing right - ideally "Mother" should come not as the last or first word.

Posted by _-_-_lucy_-_-_ (# 10465) on :

quote:
I actually like the "piss me off" - adds a second and third layer to the joke

I agree. I love this joke! It never fails to amuse me!
I love it, I love it, I love it! [Killing me]

Posted by Back-to-Front (# 5638) on :

quote:
Originally posted by (gracia):
I love the image of a little old lady picking up a boulder & heaving it at the adultress.

Except that she would have been no older than 50 - hardly a little old lady.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

A peasant woman of 50 in that day and age would probably have looked like a little old lady, don't you think?

Posted by Back-to-Front (# 5638) on :

I suppose so. I've just been reminded of when I used to work at Claire's Accessories and had to dress up for some promotion. Apparenty, I looked like a "Balkan village woman". [Confused]

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

Tease.

P

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