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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: da vinci as ice-breaker
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koffshun
Shipmate
# 11227
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Posted
until recently i was a theology student - a confession that prompted people to ask if i was going to become a nun/teach RE (boy, was THAT a mistake when i tried it!)...
at least, until The Da Vinci Code came out, when everyone i met would immediately launch into their own questions about the book.
Having read it - and particularly enjoyed Brown's total reimagining of pre-Constantinian Christianity - i began to really enjoy these ice-breaking moments. and a tiny part of me would like to think that my efforts to debunk the conspiratorial hype were passed on from one exchange to the next...
has anyone else found the Da Vinci code to be a great source of idle conversation on long train journeys and in darkened club corners?
on a more personal note, the book has provided me with the beginnings of a List (apparently this is a girly thing where the traits of prospective love interests are checked off, else they feel the pain of outright rejection)
My List So Far...
1. has read the Da Vinci Code and looked up a few of the realities behind it, preferred the latest Alexander McCall Smith.
2. likes cats.
Posts: 127 | From: south of england | Registered: Apr 2006
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
[TANGENT] quote:
Originally posted by koffshun:
on a more personal note, the book has provided me with the beginnings of a List (apparently this is a girly thing where the traits of prospective love interests are checked off, else they feel the pain of outright rejection)
My List So Far...
1. has read the Da Vinci Code and looked up a few of the realities behind it, preferred the latest Alexander McCall Smith.
2. likes cats.
Oo I qualify ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Unfortunately for you,
3. I'm already married.
[/TANGENT]
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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TomOfTarsus
Shipmate
# 3053
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Posted
Yes, here and there I've found it a good ice-breaker. I gotta be careful, though, I tend to go off so quick it can be intimidating or just a turn-off. Conspiracy theories, esp. this one, just drive me knuttz.
If you take it easy, I'm sure this will provide some good opportunities for bearing witness to the truth.
Blessings,
Tom
/already married
//hasn't read DVC, likely won't
///nothing against cats, as longas someone else cares for it!
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By grace are ye saved through faith... not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ... ordained that we should walk in them.
Posts: 1570 | From: Pittsburgh, PA USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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koffshun
Shipmate
# 11227
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Posted
I have to say, i do enjoy the opportunity to 'witness' (aargh, scary word!) in these discussions. but i mostly like to emphasise the steps some parts of the church are making to think and reflect and be open to new theologies... this is a personal bug bear.
i am PASSIONATE about learning and discovering and thinking about what it means to be a Christian and where we have evolved from, which is why i love that there is a TDVC board.
personally, i have no problems with the nature of the gospels - documents with their own bias and agenda, written many years after Jesus' death. because everyone involved in the faith after Jesus has been human; fallible and working it out themselves. it does not challenge my faith to any great extent, but too many churches out there discourage such thinking. too many leaders of christian communities want SHEEP who find anything beyond creationism as dangerous, who are ready to render any random thought process as heresy...
TDVC should not simply be dismissed out of hand - it should be dismissed with excitement and wonder and joy and all these other things that proclaim a best-selling and not particularly well-written book as fiction.
ooh, hadn't meant to write that much... ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
darn it - all the good ones are always married!! serves me right for leaving my 22 year-old ass on the shelf for so long!
1. has read the Da Vinci Code and looked up a few of the realities behind it, preferred the latest Alexander McCall Smith.
2. likes cats.
3. is single (and pref not just out of a relationship that began at 14).
Posts: 127 | From: south of england | Registered: Apr 2006
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TomOfTarsus
Shipmate
# 3053
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Posted
Great scott, koffshun, I just saw your post count! Welcome to the ship!
I'm sure you'll get yor fill of dicussion about the evolutin of Christianity here. We've got about every stripe and point of the compass represented here, and some really knowlegeable folk to represent them.
As an engineer with kids older than you (and two that are younger), I'm probably a little stodgier, though I hope no less passionate, about living out the Christian life. Whilst I'm not of the sheep mentality, I've long since settled the question of Scripture for myself, and I'll bet when we finally get to sit down with Matt & his friends, they'll have some surprises in store as to the accuracy of the gospels. But that, of course, is another thread.
And I sympathize with your single plight. I have a very eligible daughter, very good looking even by my own biased standards, virtuous, well-employed, etc, and she can't find a man if it would save her life (altough some would say it'd ruin her life!). Guys are more frequent, but men are a real rarity these days, if you get my distinction.
Oh, BTW, my take on the evolution of Christianity-
we've screwed it up so badly it'll be a wonder if he doesn't horsewhip us all before we are allowed through the gates! What part of "Love God, love your neighbor" is so tough to understand?
Again, welcome!
Tom
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By grace are ye saved through faith... not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ... ordained that we should walk in them.
Posts: 1570 | From: Pittsburgh, PA USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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Pottage
Shipmate
# 9529
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Posted
It's true that when something like this is "in the news" it gives people like me who are a bit pathetic about evangelising a painless way to bring up the subject. It would be the same if a character in one of the soaps had some sort of 'faith' storyline, I suppose, and recently someone at work was prompted to ask me for my take on the Jerry Spinger Opera thing when it was on here.
I do plan to read DVC, if I can ever get around to it. I've read enough about it to want to judge for myself, although I remember being pretty disappointed after reading the 'Holy Blood Holy Grail' book years ago, even though at the time I wouldn't have called myself a Christian.
I'll need to keep a lid on my tendency to exasperation though. I get irritated with things that give the impression they are carefully and accurately crafted when really they are slapdash (it's called Braveheart Researching in our house). It spoils most of the Archer novels for me, even though normally I'd enjoy taking that sort of page-turning stuff on holiday and on train journeys.
But turning to more critical things, I'm afraid my scoring is patchy:
1. Not read it but I will, I promise, and I probably would prefer a proper detective story.
2. Yes, we always have cats at home (two at the moment).
3. Ah, well. I've been married since you were a toddler I'm afraid.
Posts: 701 | From: middle England | Registered: May 2005
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PerkyEars
slightly distracted
# 9577
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Posted
Aaaaaargh. I only once had someone bring up the DVC, when I was drunk, so my response was something like: "AAAARGGGG No!!!! Not that bollocks??!!! Noooooo!!!".
I guess my witnessing as a sensitve, open minded Christian needs some work.
The person concerned then ploughed on, admitting that yes, it was bollocks, but that it showed that "there was more than one way of viewing Jesus", who he obviously had a high opinion of (as someone who challenged the religious authorities of the day).
Which made me wonder if there are a large number of people out there who are attracted to Jesus, but don't want to accept Christianity. I wonder if this is bad or good, from a witnessing perspective. Is the respect and interest that people feel for Jesus something that teaching people about Christianity can build on?
1. Haven't and shan't
2. Used too, now they make me sneeze
3. Single and approaching liking it
Posts: 532 | From: Bristol | Registered: May 2005
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
I've enjoyed quite a few conversations that becuase of DVC have gone on to wider questions of God, the universe and everything. Here's a list of things I've found helpful:
1. If someone is realy keen on the book, don't just dismiss it even if you have good reason to. People are always hurt by this if they happen to have liked it.
2. Listen to the parts that people found most intriging and talk about those rather than going into what's not acurate in the book.
3. If there's time, see if there's any reason why they picked up on certain parts. Some people are looking for faith and mght find DVC a less embarassing way of getting into the subject.
4. Don't assume anyone will be remotely convinced by your well argued, historicly sensitive and thoughtful approach. "Of course you'd disagree wth it, you're a christian".
Regarding the OP. here's list two.
1. Read it for "research" of course.
2. Have one adorable cat.
3. Am married and well out of your age range i'm afraid.
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
My local evangelical church is using it to fish for people - a postcard came through the door advertising DVC themed events. The interesting thing is that it took me a moment to work out who it was from - because they'd only put their contact details in the bottom right hand corner in a quite discreet font, and the first two events on the list had no mention of religion. I suppose the idea is to get people to pick it up and read it that far before they realise it's a church, rather than to bin it straight away, which is interesting in itself.
L.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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pimple
Ship's Irruption
# 10635
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Posted
May be a good way to fish. Transparency can be a bit of a handicap at the outset. Once the converts are hooked, do they keep a priest handy?
[ 11. April 2006, 06:40: Message edited by: chemincreux ]
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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)
Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005
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Zealot en vacance
Shipmate
# 9795
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Posted
Once again the maxim that 'there is no such thing as bad publicity' seems to be proven. Met quite a few people recently (teens and twenties mostly), provoked into asking questions as a result of contact with this work.
1. Don't need to read it.
2. Would be quite happy if domestic cats were extinct.
3. Married long enough to be your father.
4. Stop making lists of preconditions, get out there and socialise.
[ 11. April 2006, 10:46: Message edited by: Zealot en vacance ]
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He said, "Love one another".
Posts: 2014 | From: Surface of planet Earth | Registered: Jul 2005
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koffshun
Shipmate
# 11227
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Posted
Socialise?? You mean with real people? Can I take my keyboard and moniter with me?
In reality I have no list, I'm just annoyed with chatting up cute men who then proclaim how fascinating TDVC was and "how like true it is that there's like a cover-up in religion and stuff. I mean it's like that guy Marx says about religion being like a drug, you know?"...
It's as tragic as when a beautiful man sits opposite you in the tube and then opens up today's copy of The Sun.
I'm a snob, I know, but aren't any of us who post on this board, because we know a bit about the 'realities' of the Prory of Sion et al.? We are annoyed at the interest and impact such a book has sparked, while the latest Mills and Boon hasn't inspired millions in their thousands to question the impact of dog walking on people's sex life and whether there's a conspiracy of dog walkers/owners... (bad analogy, apologies!)
Posts: 127 | From: south of england | Registered: Apr 2006
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Zealot en vacance
Shipmate
# 9795
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by koffshun:
..I'm just annoyed with chatting up cute men who then proclaim how fascinating TDVC was and "how like true it is that there's like a cover-up in religion and stuff ..
It's as tragic as when a beautiful man sits opposite you in the tube and then opens up today's copy of The Sun.
Lots of oysters, relatively few pearls. Mind you some tube lines have more pearl bearing oysters than others - it's a plot don't you know.
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He said, "Love one another".
Posts: 2014 | From: Surface of planet Earth | Registered: Jul 2005
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pimple
Ship's Irruption
# 10635
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Posted
A short while ago I watched a TV progamme about Rosslyn chapel. TDVC certainly seems to be breaking the ice there - thanks to the extraordinary good nature of the regular worshippers there. Sales of the book - and many others on the Templars and associated subjects - are contributing to the enormous cost of restoring the building. Visitors are encouraged to join in the regular prayer meetings and not sniffed at if they only watch from round the pillars. I've just finished the book myself and am in two minds about it. Or possibly three. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)
Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005
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Cymruambyth
Shipmate
# 10887
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Posted
I read DVC at the insistence of a friend, who felt that as a Christian I should know what the secular world is up to (sometimes I think she believes I live in an anchorite's cell like Julian of Norwich!) If I was a book reviewer, I'd have to say that as a novelist Dan Brown is smelly-mediocre at best when it comes to creating characters that have any depth (I got a kick out of solving the puzzle well ahead of the 'Expert"!) It's a page-turner, I'll admit, but there's nothing new there - Leigh and Begeant covered all this in 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail' (which was a big a load of codswallop as I've ever read - based on making the 'facts' fir the hypothesis, in my view).
As an ice-breaker? Well, maybe. Although, those who have read it who are not church-connected seem to think that it is all true, and that it is their mission in life to show me how misguided I have been, and I find it difficult to be cool and balanced in any ensuing discussion of Mr. B's Opus.
Will I see the movie? Highly unlikely, since I prefer my entertainment live, and am fortunate enough to live in acity which feeds me live theatre on a regular basis.
As to the list thing, I'm out of the running, by reason of being a female and having been married for 45 years, with sons in their forties, a grandson who celebrates birthday #23 next Tuesday (and sorry, K, but he's already engaged - but I have a 20 year old and a 15 year old waiting in the wings), and I have gloves older than you. On the pro side, I adore cats - so does Mr. C. I agree with the poster who suggested that you dump the list, join a club filled with young men who share your interests, or check out the availables in your parish or place of employment/school. I met Mr. C. at work.
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"Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living." Jaroslav Pelikan
Posts: 556 | From: The True North Strong and Free | Registered: Jan 2006
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koffshun
Shipmate
# 11227
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Posted
Oh dear, it seems I shall not be meeting men anytime soon then as I am currently unemployed (this will not last long, she desperately hopes!) and am at a lovely church where I am the token 'young person' and the next nearest in age is mid-40s!
So it is that I walk the streets with a sandwich board saying "wanna talk about The Da Vinci Code and maybe get a coffee?" in the hopes of a proverbial pearl.
Maybe I should set up an exciting death scene at the local art gallery and invite sexy cryptographers to work out its meaning. Know any sexy cryptographers? Is there a traditional route into said line of work? Give me a few months and any cryptographer would do, sexy or no...
I liked Chemincreux's post about the Rosslyn Chapel. I know it has its relevance in TDVC, but more places of worship should encourage their use for prayer/reflection. There's a real ministry in providing space, peace and a non-judgemental atmosphere in 20-minute bitesize chunks. (NOT a sarcastic comment!)
Also, if anyone wants to read some really well written and fascinating reflections on the Knights Templar, Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco can't be bettered. He did it with more wit, style and while his characters aren't always loveable, they have good depth, than Dan Brown did.
One of my favourite TDVC conversations - many many cynical atheists laying into the poor Christian at lunch; let me eat my sandwich, dammit - was beautifully offset by an IT teacher joining us and saying "I enjoyed TDVC but when I read Digital Fortress and realised what a load of bull the computer stuff was, I started to question TDVC facts"!
Posts: 127 | From: south of england | Registered: Apr 2006
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Cymruambyth
Shipmate
# 10887
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Posted
Koffshun, at the risk of offending all the men aboard ship who are under 40, let me tell you that men in their forties are a darned sight more interesting than their juniors! Abandon, I beg you, the idea of the sandwich board.
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"Tradition is the living faith of the dead; traditionalism is the dead faith of the living." Jaroslav Pelikan
Posts: 556 | From: The True North Strong and Free | Registered: Jan 2006
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koffshun
Shipmate
# 11227
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Posted
originally posted by Cymruambyth:
quote:
at the risk of offending all the men aboard ship who are under 40, let me tell you that men in their forties are a darned sight more interesting than their juniors!
but they don't look quite so good in nothing but Levis ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 127 | From: south of england | Registered: Apr 2006
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Primarks and Spencer
Shipmate
# 10968
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Posted
Me being single, I'm fascinated by the idea that DVC might be an ice-breaker for Christian singles! I must read it right now!
Seriously, though, if I was the only youngish person in church and was very keen to hook up, I'd tour around several churches in the area, rather than make do with just one.
The thing that the Da Vinci Code has in common with The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is that both can spark people's interest in Christianity, albeit for different reasons. But they can also both provide opportunities to witness for Christ. If a church insults the intelligence of the people who have read DVC, then they blow the opportunity.
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:)
Posts: 63 | Registered: Feb 2006
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sharkshooter
Not your average shark
# 1589
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by koffshun:
...My List So Far...
1. has read the Da Vinci Code and looked up a few of the realities behind it, preferred the latest Alexander McCall Smith.
2. likes cats.
1. Never read it - probably won't - won't see the movie, either.
2. Likes cats - preferrably bar-be-qued - they tend to dry out if you fry them on the stove.
3. Already married.
I'm sure you'll find a better fit with someone else.
[ 19. April 2006, 16:41: Message edited by: sharkshooter ]
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Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]
Posts: 7772 | From: Canada; Washington DC; Phoenix; it's complicated | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lucy Reeves-Price
Ship’s pug
# 11251
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Posted
I've been asked about my opinion on The Da Vinci Code, but not having read it I'm always a little worried that they'll ask me detailed questions about it and that I won't be able to answer.
I wear christian t-shirts/bracelets/badges so I find people's interest is sparked by them. I'm on safer ground with those!
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Lots of Hugs from Lucy and Lan Ping.
Posts: 70 | From: South Staffordshire, England | Registered: Apr 2006
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
I went to a concert (Paul Baloche and Robin Mark) last night at a big Pentecostal place, and they are advertising a satellite cast of Unlocking the Da Vinci Code with Lee Stroebel (author of The Case for Christ)
as for the list:
... didn't read it
... like cats
... married and well over forty (I'll be a prime number again in 22 days!)
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Yerevan
Shipmate
# 10383
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Posted
My non-C flatmate has started using the DVC as a way of finding out whether random-guy-at-party is worth an exchange of phone numbers. If he's either a) not read it b) read it and thought it was 'ok', he's worth getting to know further. However if he thinks its 'amazing' she's washing her hair....
My MOTR Methodist church is also 'going fishing' with the DVC. Should be interesting
Posts: 3758 | From: In the middle | Registered: Sep 2005
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Lady A
Narnian Lady
# 3126
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Posted
My church is also fishing with Da Vinci, had a sermon on it last week, and had a forum on four main issues from the book last night at church. They did a pretty good job promoting the forum, nearly filling the sanctuary.
Posts: 2545 | From: The Lion's Mane, Narnia | Registered: Aug 2002
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Liberty
ship's football fanatic
# 713
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Posted
went to the cinema on friday, we got bombarded by christians handing out leaflets for a discussion meeting, as we left.
i say good luck to them, but we'd only gone to see mission impossible 3, which kinda confused a lot of people.
it has been a good discussion topic in the staff room though.
1.agree.
2.mmm, kebab.
3.married.
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"I'ma be what I set out to be, without a doubt, undoubtedly"
Posts: 1879 | From: SW2 to 20009 | Registered: Jul 2001
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tammierene
Apprentice
# 11405
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Posted
The only people in my area who want to discuss the Da Vinci code (which I dont discuss generally) are Extremist Right Evangelical Republican types who want to hit me over the head with the book cuz I liked it!!
1. read it, liked it, researched a bit on things id never heard of.
2. have a cat, recently sent one to cat heaven cuz of lukemia *sob*
3. am married female who's never had a lesbian relationship..but might consider it if you look like Angelia Jolie ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Tam
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Don't sweat the small stuff.
Posts: 6 | Registered: May 2006
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
Great ice breaker. Invited out for a beer the other night. Someone asked for a piece of paper and a pen. Opened my briefcase in which was laying the DVC.
Five ours later was still trying to refute. Am truly amazed how sensible people take it a Gospel.
Good chance to witness. Getting people to talk about Jesus instead of the damned world cup.
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Pewgilist
Shipmate
# 3445
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
That reminds me of what Dorothy Parker wrote of a certain book: that it "should not be put down lightly, but rather should be thrown with great force!" (I think I have the quote right)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
"This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly; it should be thrown aside with great force."
I know this why? Because.
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Pewgilist
Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 126 | From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Oct 2002
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Pewgilist
Shipmate
# 3445
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by koffshun:
has anyone else found the Da Vinci code to be a great source of idle conversation on long train journeys and in darkened club corners?
I've tried to use the book that way, but it's not worked out very well. Over the course of the two such conversations that I've had, I very quickly moved from guarded exploration of my fellow's opinions, to inarticulate gaspings and then - if suffered to continue - to a litany of murderous prose, tortured logic and utter historical ignorance.
Only two times, though. My own father thrust a copy into my hands just before I went on a trip and my wife insisted I read it while I was gone. Even though every third book I saw was _The Da Vince Code_, I kept mine hidden behind a copy of Arnold's _Culture and Anarchy_ after the first two encounters with fellow travellers.
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Pewgilist
Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 126 | From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Oct 2002
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