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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Compare the Christian reaction to the Muslim reaction
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Luke
Soli Deo Gloria
# 306
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Posted
I was reading this blog and thought the blogger made a really interesting point. Compare the Christian reaction to The Da Vinci Code, to the Muslim reaction to the Muhammad cartoons. Jesus and Muhammad respectively are both insulted and the 'insults' made widely available. Yet such a vast difference in reactions!
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Emily's Voice
Posts: 822 | From: Australia | Registered: May 2001
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Louise
Shipmate
# 30
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Posted
Er... they seem to be getting together. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
L.
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Now you need never click a Daily Mail link again! Kittenblock replaces Mail links with calming pics of tea and kittens! http://www.teaandkittens.co.uk/ Click under 'other stuff' to find it.
Posts: 6918 | From: Scotland | Registered: May 2001
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Understandably, they are getting together. Although a fast unto death seems a little extreme. I rather agree with one of the RC censors who stated: It's fiction, not reality, and this is a democracy.
All that being said, I won't read it because it is very badly written fiction (I struggled through the first chapter in the bookstore some years back). I certainly wouldn't waste any time or money to see the film.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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El Greco
Shipmate
# 9313
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Posted
I was reading that the Muslims have condemned the Da Vinci Code, and asked that the government would ban it in Russia, because it is blasphemous towards the prophet Jesus.
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Ξέρω εγώ κάτι που μπορούσε, Καίσαρ, να σας σώσει.
Posts: 11285 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Luke:
Compare the Christian reaction to The Da Vinci Code, to the Muslim reaction to the Muhammad cartoons. Jesus and Muhammad respectively are both insulted and the 'insults' made widely available. Yet such a vast difference in reactions!
Except that the cartoons really did insult Mohammed, and DVC didn't insult Jesus.
I think the difference in reaction may have more to do with culture than religion. Many Christians are furious, and have been protesting, trying to ban the film, etc.
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Vikki Pollard
Shipmate
# 5548
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Posted
Won't it be wonderful when it's died down and all this righteous anger can be turned towards protesting against poverty, oppression and war?
Somehow it never seems to work that way, does it? ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
I can't help feeling it would have furthered the Christian cause much more if, for example, the people involved in protests against the film had stood back this week and said, "Hang on, - an innocent young man has been knifed in London - let's get angry about THAT and go and lend some support to those who grieve, in the name o Christ..."
But no - ooh, we have an ALL POWERFUL GOD but we're scared He's going to get hurt.
So let's run round like headless chickens and give this film publicity, and whilst we're at it, plant the idea in people's minds that it might have some truth cos the Church is so worried about it! Woooo! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Really, is it any wonder that the Church has lost a lot of credibility?? Deservedly so, IMHO.
[ 20. May 2006, 09:13: Message edited by: Vikki Pollard ]
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"I don't get all this fuss about global warming, Miss. Why doesn't the Government just knock down all the f**king greenhouses?" (One of my slightly less bright 15 year old pupils)
Posts: 5695 | From: The Far Side | Registered: Feb 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Vikki ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Chris Brann
Apprentice
# 11439
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Posted
"Won't it be wonderful when it's died down and all this righteous anger can be turned towards protesting against poverty, oppression and war?"
[ 20. May 2006, 09:13: Message edited by: Vikki Pollard ]
That is so the right answer.
I never have got my head around demosrating to protect God. We were told to love one another and to spread the gospel in word and deed. Nowhere did God say defend me!! In fact it is normally Him who defends us.
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God loves us all
Posts: 2 | From: Bath England | Registered: May 2006
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JimS
Shipmate
# 10766
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Posted
I hope this isn't too tangential. Christian Aid week has just finished and when I collected nobody mentioned DVC; they knew what the real issues were.
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Jim:Confused of Crewe
Posts: 137 | From: uk | Registered: Dec 2005
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TomOfTarsus
Shipmate
# 3053
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Posted
Kudos, indeed, Vicki!
As others have said, the insult is only tangentially at Jesus, saying thta the Church covered up the truth about him. But anyone who would take this seriously needs a serious talking to... or maybe some psychiatric treatment.
Let those who are entertained be entertained, FWIW. I'd bet 99% of them aren't affected in their views in the least.
Blessings,
Tom
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By grace are ye saved through faith... not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath ... ordained that we should walk in them.
Posts: 1570 | From: Pittsburgh, PA USA | Registered: Jul 2002
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testbear
Shipmate
# 4602
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Posted
It's more appropriate to compare the Muslim reaction to the cartoons to the Christian reaction to Jerry Springer: The Opera. The comparison with the Da Vinci Code isn't comparing like with like. Is there a comparison to be made between this situation and the hoo-hah about Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses? (I'll admit to not knowing enough about that situation, being only about 6 or 7 years old at the time)
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"If you really believe what you say you believe / you wouldn't be so damn reckless with the words you speak"
Posts: 127 | From: a town where you can't smell a thing | Registered: Jun 2003
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Primarks and Spencer
Shipmate
# 10968
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Posted
I'm not convinced that making a comparison is really a good idea. What purpose does it serve? Are we trying to prove that Christians are somehow morally superior to Muslims (or vice versa) because one group is less likely to be provoked into becoming murderous lunatics than the other? And if so, why? Do we think it'll really help us evangelise? What happened to the idea of being saved by grace, rather than by our actions?
I think there are many atheists and agnostics who lump all Abrahamic religions in together. If one of these faiths is portrayed badly in the media, then all the others are tarred with the same brush. Disputes between Christians and Muslims may be seen as "in-fighting", and people quite understandably want nothing to do with it.
I'm with Vikki Pollard on this one. If God's really that powerful, then he doesn't need our defence. So let's fight poverty instead.
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:)
Posts: 63 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by testbear:
Is there a comparison to be made between this situation and the hoo-hah about Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses? (I'll admit to not knowing enough about that situation, being only about 6 or 7 years old at the time)
I haven't read "Satanic Verses", but I gather that the real "satanic verses" in the Koran are a reference to 3 goddesses of Mohammed's region. IIRC, the reaction to the book was partly due to the title, and partly due to comments about Mohammed's wives.
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Luke
Soli Deo Gloria
# 306
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Posted
I agree, we don’t need to defend God, although if something special to us is insulted expressing some sort of displeasure is probably an appropriate human response. I don’t think the reactions per say mean terribly much. However, the reactions are interesting because they are a reflection of underlying theological differences between the two religions.
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Emily's Voice
Posts: 822 | From: Australia | Registered: May 2001
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Honest John
Shipmate
# 11457
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Posted
In my own humble opinion, the church should be grateful to the DVC in the same way that it owed something to the controversial view of the former Bishop of Durham, David Jenkins; they both got the people asking questions about the Christianity in the media in ways that the church itself could not hope to achieve.
Anything that gets people talking about Christian issues in the mainstream media is surely a good thing (even if it involves dubious opinions) because in my experience, most people become Christians after a period of searching and asking questions.
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'Remember this and mark it well; he who is not one up is one down'
Alister Sim
Posts: 100 | From: Liverpool | Registered: May 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by testbear:
It's more appropriate to compare the Muslim reaction to the cartoons to the Christian reaction to Jerry Springer: The Opera. The comparison with the Da Vinci Code isn't comparing like with like. Is there a comparison to be made between this situation and the hoo-hah about Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses? (I'll admit to not knowing enough about that situation, being only about 6 or 7 years old at the time)
There is no institutionalized way in Christianity for a cleric to say, "if you kill this person, you will be guaranteed salvation." There's no word for it, there's no concept of it, it just doesn't happen.
You'll forgive me if I think this does show something about the differences between the two religions, I hope.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Teufelchen
Shipmate
# 10158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by testbear:
It's more appropriate to compare the Muslim reaction to the cartoons to the Christian reaction to Jerry Springer: The Opera. The comparison with the Da Vinci Code isn't comparing like with like. Is there a comparison to be made between this situation and the hoo-hah about Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses? (I'll admit to not knowing enough about that situation, being only about 6 or 7 years old at the time)
There is no institutionalized way in Christianity for a cleric to say, "if you kill this person, you will be guaranteed salvation." There's no word for it, there's no concept of it, it just doesn't happen.
You'll forgive me if I think this does show something about the differences between the two religions, I hope.
I have a strong recollection that Christian clergy did say exactly that with a certain level of official blessing during the Crusades. I agree that the fact that Christians don't do it any more is highly illustrative, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that 'it just doesn't happen'.
Also, because Islam has no Pope, no-one can really gainsay a rival preacher who stands up and says 'Imam So-and-so's fatwa is dangerous and un-Islamic; don't follow it'.
Different ways of working. I prefer ours, on balance; I just don't want this to appear clear-cut when it isn't.
T.
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Little devil
Posts: 3894 | From: London area | Registered: Aug 2005
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E Tenebris
Apprentice
# 4885
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
Er... they seem to be getting together.
L.
It seems strange though that muslims would be bothered by the Da Vinci Code. If they think that Jesus died in old age and that he wasn't God, isn't that quite compatible with the ideas in the book? I can't see why they'd be bothered by the idea of him having children.
Posts: 45 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Aug 2003
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R.A.M.
Shipmate
# 7390
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by E Tenebris:
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
Er... they seem to be getting together.
L.
It seems strange though that muslims would be bothered by the Da Vinci Code. If they think that Jesus died in old age and that he wasn't God, isn't that quite compatible with the ideas in the book? I can't see why they'd be bothered by the idea of him having children.
My thoughts exactly; the "Christ's divinity was an error/conspiracy of the christian church" thang would suit Islamic preferences as well. Most Muslims I know look on Christians fairly indulgently, as one's who are on the right lines(same God), but have spectuacularly missed the point(Jesus is a prophet, and not even the most important one).
Inayat Bungawala has made this point in an article in the Guardian, which was fairly poorly argued. He argued that the Da Vinci code revealed the truth about Christs divinity, and that getting this right would be atouch point for Muslims and Christians. Or that's what he seemed to be argueing anyway.
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Formerly Real Ale Methodist
Back after prolonged absence...
Posts: 1584 | From: (Sunshine on) Leith | Registered: Jun 2004
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kaboodle
Shipmate
# 11563
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Posted
Interesting that the Christians raise Kain over comparison of two works of fiction (The DaVinci Code and the Bible)
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"God does not play dice with the Universe."--Albert Einstein
"Stop telling God what to do!"--Niels Bohr
"Not only does God play dice with the universe, sometimes He hides the dice where we can't find them."--Niels Bohr
Posts: 87 | Registered: Jun 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kaboodle:
Interesting that the Christians raise Kain over comparison of two works of fiction (The DaVinci Code and the Bible)
I wonder if that one guy in India is still fasting.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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kaboodle
Shipmate
# 11563
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Posted
Hehe, don't know Ruth, ask him maybe? If he can answer then he probably wasn't.
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"God does not play dice with the Universe."--Albert Einstein
"Stop telling God what to do!"--Niels Bohr
"Not only does God play dice with the universe, sometimes He hides the dice where we can't find them."--Niels Bohr
Posts: 87 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Teufelchen
Shipmate
# 10158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kaboodle:
Interesting that the Christians raise Kain over comparison of two works of fiction (The DaVinci Code and the Bible)
Cain is spelt (in English) with a C.
Who, exactly, is comparing the Da Vinci Code to the Bible? (Source, please.) Who, precisely, is 'raising Cain' about it? (Source again, please.)
T.
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Little devil
Posts: 3894 | From: London area | Registered: Aug 2005
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
It's hard to imagine an insult to Jesus that didn't actually happen - flogged, mocked, crucified ...
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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karlbarth
Apprentice
# 11272
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by E Tenebris:
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
Er... they seem to be getting together.
L.
It seems strange though that muslims would be bothered by the Da Vinci Code. If they think that Jesus died in old age and that he wasn't God, isn't that quite compatible with the ideas in the book? I can't see why they'd be bothered by the idea of him having children.
I don't think Muslims believe Jesus died in old age, but that he ascended in to Heaven after surviving the crucifixion. The novel was banned in Lebanan and Jordan. There are calls from both local Christians and Muslims for the film to be banned as well. I think the reason for offence being caused is quite simply that they both contradict the Qu'ran and The Bible.
Posts: 43 | From: Oxfordshire | Registered: Apr 2006
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