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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: How do you get rid of a nightmare vicar?
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Aelred of Rievaulx
Shipmate
# 16860
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Posted
This may be a Church of England problem. Clergy in the C of E have the employment status of "Office holders" - they are not employed - so not subject to employment law - not dismissable by superiors easily. Got that?
But I can think of a number of cases in which a rogue cleric has done untold damage while working out his (usually, not always, him) crazy obsessions all over his colleagues and congregation and sometimes community. They get more and more paranoid as slowly but surely, yes, everyone does start to talk about them and does dislike them heartily. It never ends well - it takes years for some kind of process to work out, dioceses are incredibly slow to act, the reputation of the church takes a pounding, the person at the centre can never realistically work again as a clergyperson. It creates a lot of misery - and sometimes it can destroy other peole's lives and careers - colleagues, church musicians, marriages, etc. In any other outfit the whole thing would have been governed by much stricter rules and would have been nipped in the bud - or so I like to think. The whole thing is a MESS!
How do you get rid of the annoying fuckers (who in our better moments we remember are suffering too and whom God loves yada yada)? Short of doing something illegal, that is?
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In friendship are joined honor and charm, truth and joy, sweetness and good-will, affection and action. And all these take their beginning from Christ, advance through Christ, and are perfected in Christ.
Posts: 136 | From: English Midlands | Registered: Jan 2012
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
This telegraph news report opens interesting possibilities. The device would need to be re-programmed to boom TIME TO MOVE MY SON! whenever the Vicar came into the building. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Failing that contact his previous parish, and ask them how they got rid of the fucker. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
[ 28. February 2012, 08:04: Message edited by: Oferyas ]
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
Short of doing something illegal, that is?
You're no fun.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
It isn't a CofE problem. Sometimes I think it's a ministry problem but I've seen people in other vocations (eg, teaching, medicine and the public services) emphasize leading over serving. The outcome is usually micro-management, power and control, with universally unhappy results.
It's difficult to get rid of any of them.
[ 28. February 2012, 09:28: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Tell Mossad that s/he is an Iranian nuclear scientist... ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
I find that an angry and frightened mob armed with pitchforks and flaming brands works well in most situations.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
There are few situations which cannot be resolved...by suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night.
Kai Lung
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
There are few situations which cannot be resolved...by suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night.
There's the solution then - make it look like they committed suicide by smacking them over the head with a bag of gold while they're walking along a clifftop path. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
From where I am the CofE seems to be promoting leadership over service as an organisational strategy. It's emphasised in ministerial reviews and in diocesan leadership training events where clergy are encouraged to identify and develop their leadership style. Those who are naturally autocratic will feel empowered to micro-manage and any objections from those on the receiving end will be interpreted as a failure to support the leadership.
I'm interested in how organisations work, in the processes of management and decision-making. This is where we look to sort out the problems. We've no shortage of processes in the CofE along with guidelines, codes of practice and assorted policy statements. Some processes are embedded in statute. They just don't work. Manipulating, lying and bullying does work.
If you've got a nightmare vicar it can be worth trying to see a wider picture. I'm not saying rogue clergy can't develop all by themselves with no help from anyone else, just that sometimes it may be serving an agenda within a diocese to allow a nightmare to develop, or even encourage it. 'Pastoral breakdown' is a usefully imprecise category as a basis for getting rid of someone and wide open to manipulation.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Can you get one of the members of the congregation to seduce him?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ender's Shadow
Shipmate
# 2272
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Posted
The first step should be for the church wardens to approach the bishop - with clear evidence of issues; dates, times, people involved, outcomes. And take a guide from him. If the bishop persists in supporting the incumbent, an explicit vote of no confidence from the PCC is the nuclear option. There are procedures for the removal of clergy, but it's painful...
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Test everything. Hold on to the good.
Please don't refer to me as 'Ender' - the whole point of Ender's Shadow is that he isn't Ender.
Posts: 5018 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Feb 2002
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I thought there was a fairly standard practice to deal with this sort of thing?: make written contact with the pcc, then the archdeacons and rural dean and then if that fails you have right of appeal to the Bishop. Surely if enough people did that the various people contacted would have to act in some way? The danger of course is that its just a personality clash with one person who has managed to whip up a couple of other unhappy gossips as sideline support - but that tends to come out in the wash eventually, but is just as damaging to a parish community and can end in horrible ostracisation thats very hard to stop.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
But then the archdeacon and bishop wring their hands, say 'Oh dear, Oh dear, yes we know that has been a problem, we shall look very carefully into choosing someone appropriate when he retires (in xxx years' time)' and then it gets put on the back burner again.
Oh well, back to the voodoo dolls.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
I understood that the procedure was a complaint to the bishop about a incumbent - the bishop being the licensor of any official licence holder. And the bishop then discusses it with the incumbent being complained about.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
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Posted
The OP is Henry II and I claim my five pounds ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif) Will no-one rid him of this turbulent priest?
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Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Posts: 2821 | Registered: Sep 2004
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
I think a "turbulent priest" is a very different proposition from a nightmare vicar. Almost by defiition, a turbulent priest is someone who is doing his job properly - a nightmare vicar isn't.
I took Confirmation classes with a vicar who had seemed relatively normal when we started but rapidly became completely barking (was it something I said).
One memorable day when there was a foot-and-mouth scare going at a small family farm in the parish, he preached a sermon saying that it was God's Judgement on greedy farmers. People asked me afterwards why I walked out during the sermon - the rest of them had got into the habit of not listening. (The scare came to nothing, by the way).
It all came to a head when the vicar's wife had had enough of his private cruelty and bizarre sexual demands - he ended up being sectioned. Would it have made any difference if somebody had tried to do something earlier? Dunno. Perhaps.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
posted by Chorister:
quote:
But then the archdeacon and bishop wring their hands, say 'Oh dear, Oh dear, yes we know that has been a problem, we shall look very carefully into choosing someone appropriate when he retires (in xxx years' time)' and then it gets put on the back burner again.
Oh well, back to the voodoo dolls.
Somewhere along the line you seem to have either had a really bad time with your Bishop or had an incredibly weak one.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Shoot the bastard.
Or report them to the Bishop. Who will probably do nothing.
Or report them to the local papers.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
It all came to a head when the vicar's wife had had enough of his private cruelty and bizarre sexual demands - he ended up being sectioned. Would it have made any difference if somebody had tried to do something earlier? Dunno. Perhaps.
OK, now I want to hear more about the bizarre sexual demands.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Why have two people assumed a Bishop would do nothing? Is there some kind of conspiracy you all know of that the rest of us haven't been let in on yet?
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I hope you're not counting me in with the 'assuming' number - it was a real incident, although many years ago now.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
[trying to tip-toe tenderly, but likely wearing jack boots]
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience once, but is it fair to then assume that all Bishop's would be equally ineffective?
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
I hope you're not counting me in with the 'assuming' number - it was a real incident, although many years ago now.
If I remember some of your historical posts you know whereof you speak?
Theoretically, the churchwardens are the 'eyes of the bishop' and have a duty to report to the bishop - who is after all the Ordinary of all the parishes in the diocese - if they think their parish is being mishandled. But it does sound like some Bishops are very reluctant to respond or get involved.
I can understand a Bishop mightn't jump right in; Archdeacons do a lot of episcopal donkey work sometimes, I think. He mightn't want to take sides. But it does sound like the system fails an unhappy congregation, in some cases.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
If it was many years ago and the person concerned had freehold, then the bishop had very limited powers. The parson could only be deprived of office if a Consistory Court found a person guilty under the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Measure of quote:
(a) an offence against the laws ecclesiastical involving matters of doctrine, ritual or ceremonial;
(b) any other offence against the laws ecclesiastical, including—
(i) conduct unbecoming the office and work of a clerk in Holy Orders, or
(ii) serious, persistent, or continuous neglect of duty:
Provided that no proceedings in respect of unbecoming conduct shall be taken in respect of the political opinions or activities of such person;
And provided further that no proceedings in respect of neglect of duty shall be taken in respect of the political opinions of such person.
or a specially constituted tribunal established 'complete pastoral breakdown'.
Both these processes were enormously expensive, lengthy and very public for all concerned. Bishops had two options (a) speak sternly to the offending clergy person, or (b) the legal equivalent of the nuclear option. Common Tenure does change that, and dioceses have had to establish robust formal processes for dealing with complaints.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Why have two people assumed a Bishop would do nothing? Is there some kind of conspiracy you all know of that the rest of us haven't been let in on yet?
Yes.
And bishops will rarely do anything on the basis of one or two reports. In fact, even if there are many reports from the congregation, they will often do nothing.
If they get a complaint from another vicar, OTOH, they will act.
Yes I am a cynic. Yes this is hell. It is not entirely true, but there is more truth to it than many would like to admit.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If they get a complaint from another vicar, OTOH, they will act.
Not necessarily. Not even when they've promised various members of the congregation that they will act as soon as there is straightforward evidence of their behaviour, and that evidence is then provided by the Vicar of the neighbouring parish.
That may be the point at which the bishop says 'But our priority must be to show pastoral care to the Rector'*, demonstrating just how much concern he has for the dozen or so people who have been irrevocably damaged by said Rector over the previous decade, who have believed the bishop's assurances that action would be taken to protect others as soon as it was possible to do so.
*This meant doing nothing at all, just in case you were thinking that it constituted appropriate action.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
[QUOTE]That may be the point at which the bishop says 'But our priority must be to show pastoral care to the Rector'*, demonstrating just how much concern he has for the dozen or so people who have been irrevocably damaged by said Rector over the previous decade, who have believed the bishop's assurances that action would be taken to protect others as soon as it was possible to do so.
I agree that this has happened in places in the past, (and may still happen in the future) but the new Clergy Discipline Measure makes it much more likely that action will be taken if a genuine complaint of misconduct is made.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Nunc Dimittis
Seamstress of Sound
# 848
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Why have two people assumed a Bishop would do nothing? Is there some kind of conspiracy you all know of that the rest of us haven't been let in on yet?
Haven't you heard that when bishops are consecrated in the holy huddle of bishops they removed the spine of the new bishop? This goes to prove that bishops on consecration, whatever their views before consecration, become part of the Borg...
Posts: 9515 | From: Delta Quadrant | Registered: Jul 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
There are few situations which cannot be resolved...by suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night.
Kai Lung
We would have a problem then - most of East Anglia is remarkably flat. And we do have street lights, you know.
[ 29. February 2012, 07:38: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Why have two people assumed a Bishop would do nothing?
Circling the wagons and protecting their own is one of the things clergy do really well.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
There are few situations which cannot be resolved...by suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night.
Kai Lung
We would have a problem then - most of East Anglia is remarkably flat. And we do have street lights, you know.
Well there you go - problem solved. Street lights have more than one use...
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Why have two people assumed a Bishop would do nothing?
Circling the wagons and protecting their own is one of the things clergy do really well.
Yep.
It's just under (on the list of things we do well) putting up with the pathetic rants of small minded tossers who went to Sunday School, learnt enough about Christianity to know they didn't like it but decided to go to church anyway.
All the Best, Pyx_e.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Who's small minded?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
There are few situations which cannot be resolved...by suicide, a bag of gold, or thrusting a despised antagonist over a precipice on a dark night.
Kai Lung
We would have a problem then - most of East Anglia is remarkably flat. And we do have street lights, you know.
Flat, but many churches have bell towers. Plenty of murder mysteries feature people falling off these, being hung from bell ropes (accidentally) or getting trapped in the belfry, losing the key and going mad.
It's up to you.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Why have two people assumed a Bishop would do nothing?
Circling the wagons and protecting their own is one of the things clergy do really well.
Strangely enough, while whistle-blowing on abuses within any profession is a good thing (eg, sexual scandals, financial irregularities, bullying etc), there are also times when supporting one's colleagues is not a bad thing to do. And ironically, most surveys of pastoral care given by dioceses to their clergy apparently demonstrate that the clergy are often last on the list when it comes to being supported during times of vulnerability.
There are probably more than a few on the Ship alone who could comment that 'circling wagons' were nowhere in sight during times of great need.
I'm not sure that the clergy line of work is any more or less skilled at 'protecting their own' than other comparable occupations.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Have you good church people thought of staging an intervention?
Asking the vicar to sit down and talk, and then ambushing him with a table of eight or ten people who screech and rant at him in turn while insisting that he remain silent and listen?
It could be wonderfully effective, you know.
Mind you, the Human Rights Commission, or whatever the body is called in your location, might consider that to be a form of harrassment and bullying, but it sounds as if you might already be at the point anyhow.
Thereby including an outside, quasi-legal, quasi-government body to stretch things along for a few more yeears should at least let the vicar maintain his health benefits and pay into his pension a little longer.
Good luck, and peace to all!
[ 29. February 2012, 14:24: Message edited by: Silver Faux ]
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Drifting Star:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If they get a complaint from another vicar, OTOH, they will act.
Not necessarily.
They will not necessarily act decisively. They might just decide to have a talk to the offending vicar.
And yes to those who doubt it, clergy protect their own very often. Not all, not always, but often.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Ender's Shadow
Shipmate
# 2272
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Posted
Annual parochial church meeting time is upon us, so organising appropriate candidates for church wardens and the PCC is now an option. If you don't bother to ensure that your views are being represented by those people - or even stand yourself - you don't have the right to whinge. And the PCC voting to give the diocescan quota to The Church Society / Anglican Mainstream / Forward in Faith / Affirming Catholicism might get the attention of the bishop*, whilst stopping the payment of expenses is also an option, though not a pleasant one.
* Do write to him to explain your interesting choice....
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Test everything. Hold on to the good.
Please don't refer to me as 'Ender' - the whole point of Ender's Shadow is that he isn't Ender.
Posts: 5018 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Feb 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
[trying to tip-toe tenderly, but likely wearing jack boots]
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience once, but is it fair to then assume that all Bishop's would be equally ineffective?
I should jolly well hope that most Bishops aren't equally ineffective. I think they're rather well-chosen these days and would hope that in severe cases (we are talking about those, rather than just cases involving whinging niggles, aren't we?) that they often do a good job of helping to sort out the problem.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Aelred of Rievaulx
Shipmate
# 16860
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Posted
quote:
I should jolly well hope that most Bishops aren't equally ineffective. I think they're rather well-chosen these days and would hope that in severe cases (we are talking about those, rather than just cases involving whinging niggles, aren't we?) that they often do a good job of helping to sort out the problem.
What planet are you on?
Bishops are not chosen for their ability to think for themselves. In fact they are still chosen behind closed doors - give us episcopal election, I say...
And as for gettting rid of destructive fuckwits who are vicars they are SLOW to act. And those who say here that this is a rather cynical view, I can tell you it aint - it is the fruit of long experience of watching slow train crashes taking place, both as an incumbent and as a Rural Dean.
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In friendship are joined honor and charm, truth and joy, sweetness and good-will, affection and action. And all these take their beginning from Christ, advance through Christ, and are perfected in Christ.
Posts: 136 | From: English Midlands | Registered: Jan 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Perhaps things are simply better at different times and in different parts of the country? Or is that too simplistic an answer?
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Chorister is right, that they are getting better. But they have not all got better. As I have said, there are some excellent bishops. But there are also some dire senior clerics (it is not just the bishops, there are others involved too.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
I have to admit that our Bishop was a star when the Vicar went feral.
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Still missing the gator
Posts: 2542 | From: LaLa Land | Registered: Apr 2006
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Weeder:
I have to admit that our Bishop was a star when the Vicar went feral.
Who supported the Vicar and helped him not to become feral?
As has often been said on the Ship - they are toxic Vicars but there are also toxic churches, people and congregations. In soem cases, there are toxic areas where "ministries" never flourish.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Weeder:
I have to admit that our Bishop was a star when the Vicar went feral.
Perhaps the Forest isn't yours after all. An interesting attitude - what does it signify or cover up?
If it's the one I'm thinking about then it has a lot to answer for: it isn't the first vicar nor the first denomination to be affected there. I've personally counselled a minister driven out by gossip and slander, just because he wouldn't toe the line to the matriarch.
[ 08. March 2012, 08:05: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by The Weeder:
I have to admit that our Bishop was a star when the Vicar went feral.
Who supported the Vicar and helped him not to become feral?
As has often been said on the Ship - they are toxic Vicars but there are also toxic churches, people and congregations. In soem cases, there are toxic areas where "ministries" never flourish.
I understand the point you are making, but our Parish is anything but toxic.
The vicar 'went feral' by becoming sexually involved with a young single mother, who had approached him because ehe was convinced her house was haunted. He responded by dealing with the presenting problem, and initiating an affair. He promised to leave his wife for her. I was shown the e mails, by his wife, who was sent them when the young woman realised he had no intention of leaving his wife.
It was a sad story, but I can assure that the church was in no sense 'toxic'. It was, is a healthy, supportive and thriving community. This mans minestry had functioned very well, up until the affair. The Church continues to thrive. The Vicar has bounced back, in a new life and job, still with his wife.
The young woman was the one who suffered most from the whole sad business.
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Still missing the gator
Posts: 2542 | From: LaLa Land | Registered: Apr 2006
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The Weeder
Shipmate
# 11321
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by The Weeder:
I have to admit that our Bishop was a star when the Vicar went feral.
Perhaps the Forest isn't yours after all. An interesting attitude - what does it signify or cover up?
I am not sure what you mean by 'cover up'. What 'the Forest is Ours' signifies is a sense of joy and relief when the Forestry Commission backed down from an threat to 'sell off' the Forest of Dean to private ownership. The Forest has always been understood to belong to the Dean, and we felt vindicated by the backdown.
But the fight is won, so perhaps it is time to find a new sig.
Thank you for your interest in my posts.
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Still missing the gator
Posts: 2542 | From: LaLa Land | Registered: Apr 2006
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Aelred of Rievaulx:
*snip*They get more and more paranoid as slowly but surely, yes, everyone does start to talk about them and does dislike them heartily. *snip*
Does anyone ever try talking to the vicar instead of talking about them?
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Yes. It's only when you get nowhere on that score that you take things a stage further.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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