Ship of Fools: Bob Ross or Thomas Kinkade?

Thread: Bob Ross or Thomas Kinkade? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

Both of these late artists were beloved by the masses but hated by art critics. Who was the better artist? Kinkade or Ross? Which do you prefer the most or hate least: Happy Trees or Cottages and Streams?

Posted by geroff (# 3882) on :

Presumably this is prompted by the news that Kinkade has died . I didn't know this until I googled him to find links to the pictures of each so that we can judge....

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
beloved by the masses but hated by art critics.

This side of the pond that description could also be applied to Jack Vettriano.

I'd not heard of either Bob Ross or Thomas Kinkade before seeing the latter in the Celebrity Death Pool earlier today - having googled images of both their artworks I can't say any of their paintings remotely do it for me and look like the kind of thing Great-aunt Ermintrude would have hanging up on the walls. I do think they're less 'cold' than Vettriano's work, but wouldn't want any of the 3 of them hanging up in my house.

Posted by art dunce (# 9258) on :

As my moniker implies I'm a professiomal artist and quite succecssful painter. When I was teen I was quite poor and had scant access to art resources, classes etc and I loved Bob Our television with the coat hanger antenna got 3 stations and luckily PBS was one of those. Sometimes to this day when I'm panting I'll paint happy clouds and trees and laugh to myself. I thnk both he and Kinkade wanted to create art that was life affirming and made people happy and for that I admire them. I love that Bob believed there was an artist inside everyone and if they just had the tools they could shine. I completely concur.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

Here are numerous samples of their work.

Thomas Kinkade

Bob Ross

I've never heard of Jack Vettriano. His work looks pretentious. Ross wanted to make painting easy so the average person could enjoy painting. Kinkade purposefully appealed to popular audiences who wanted idyllic pictures of cottages, streams, churches, gardens and snow. I'd like to live in a Thomas Kinkade painting.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

If I had seen only one Kinkade picture, I would like it very much. However I've seen many, and I am suffering from a surfeit of the way he handles light.

Moo

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Beeswax Altar - those links should have a warning on them.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I think what I dislike about both is the utter lack of specificity. There is no sense of real observation of places or objects or, most of all, light. Of course other artists composed their pictures and moved elements around, but you know that Constable knew that lock, that mill, those trees, those skies, that the painting tells you about a real east Anglia. It also communicates a concept of the relationship of nature, man, technology and God.

I don't see anything in Ross or Kinkade but vapid, over saturated, generalised meaningless wallpapers.

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

I knew of Kinkade and didn't like his stuff. Had never heard of Ross but looked at the link.

I think Firenze has nailed my objections to the works. Add in a Precious Moments KJV Bible and the sentimentality is complete.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

Did Ross do the illustrations in the Watchtower ? [Paranoid]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

You know, I really understand what Firenze's getting at. I adore Reynolds, some of Constable and many classic painters, as well as some French impressionism.

But I really like what both Kinkade and Ross did. I don't have any of their prints. But I wouldn't say no to one. My own walls are decorated with all kinds of stuff that is far from being 'real' art in the sense of the great artists. Each piece has its own meaning for me.

But simply to have something upon which the eye falls which is pleasant and soothing and evocative, to me, has a value.

Posted by Meg the Red (# 11838) on :

I'm reasonably sure Bob Ross never piddled on Winnie the Pooh.

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

Anselmina, I have three Kincades (one of them enormous) from my late father's apartment. If I could, I'd put them in the car and bring them over to your place. Too bad there's a pond in the way.

[ 07. April 2012, 23:05: Message edited by: Mamacita ]

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

HAPPY EVER-LOVING TREES, MOTHER-HUGGERS!

Ahem. That is to say, Mr. Ross is having a resurgence in popularity amongst people in my age group.

Thomas Kincade is icky.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

I have no use for either of them.

I can't imagine Kinkade painting something like this.

Warning! Not work safe!

[ 08. April 2012, 00:52: Message edited by: jedijudy ]

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

I doubt Bob Ross painted that.

[ 07. April 2012, 23:53: Message edited by: Beeswax Altar ]

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

Hosting

Pigwidgeon, please remember to post a warning for links that are not work safe; like for so many of us who work in churches! Or, the two-click rule works, too.

Thank you, and please pass the brain bleach.

jedijudy
Heavenly Host

Posted by ChaliceGirl (# 13656) on :

Kinkade's stuff looked like velvet paintings to me. [Projectile]

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :

See, there's no real way to compare Bob Ross (goddamnit, Pigwidgeon, I'll never be able to unsee that) and Kinkade, as their MO and purposes are entirely different. Kinkade was a commercial hack artist, out to pedal a sanitized view of life and Feel-Good Christianity—oh, and his cottages all look like they're on fire. Bob Ross, though his paintings are a bit bucolic and, well, look like they were put together in 30 minutes with the big brush while talking to people he couldn't see—which they were—really didn't seem to care about the finished product too much. It was the process, the way it made you feel, the way listening to his oh-so-very-calm voice made you . . . happy. And sleepy. But happysleepy.
Also, Ross's whole method and ideology is kind of a reaction to his time as an Air Force shouting master—I gather that it was his job to whip recruits and underlings into shape, but he didn't much like it. I think painting Happy Trees with the giant brush and the 'fro is about as far from being a drill instructor as you can get.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Hosting

Pigwidgeon, please remember to post a warning for links that are not work safe; like for so many of us who work in churches! Or, the two-click rule works, too.

Thank you, and please pass the brain bleach.

jedijudy
Heavenly Host

Sorry!

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Lass:

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
beloved by the masses but hated by art critics.
This side of the pond that description could also be applied to Jack Vettriano.

Some of those Vettriano paintings remind me of Edward Hopper. If Hopper had been an illustrator for Heavy Metal.

[ 08. April 2012, 09:20: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

That's what makes his work pretentious. He's attempting to paint Pre-World War II scenes (a time when men wore fedoras and women apparently sat around in various stages of undress waiting to be ravaged) in a style similar to artists from that time period. Kinkade had his own style and look that was what it was. Ross learned his style from William Alexander who later accused Ross of betraying him. However, William Alexander wasn't Edward Hopper or one of the French Impressionists.

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

I wouldn't hang either of their work on my wall ... and I'm no art snob; I like lots of stuff that wouldn't qualify as Good Art. Theirs just isn't my taste.

But I respect Bob Ross and I don't respect Kinkade. My lack of respect for TK comes from listening to rants by an artist friend about how he sold mass-produced copies of his work for exorbitant prices claiming they were limited edition prints, or something like that? I'm not really clear on the details so this is definitely second-hand lack of respect, but if he marketed his work dishonestly then I think he deserves it.

My admiration for Ross also comes second hand as I never watched his TV show, but I have many friends who did and found it affirming and helpful; it really encouraged them to unlock their own inner artist, and I think that's a great use of what may have been a mediocre talent.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

Originally posted by Jack the Lass:

quote:
This side of the pond that description could also be applied to Jack Vettriano.

Aberdeen Art Gallery currently have The Singing Butler on display, borrowed from whoever paid £740,000 for it in 2007.

I went along to see it, all excited at the prospect of seeing a painting which has generated such controversy. It was disappointing; it looked exactly like the ubiquitous prints, no extra depth whatsoever. Someone at the Gallery had, possibly cruelly, hung it near an awesome Peter Howson, which completely overpowered the Singing Butler.

(The exhibition closes on the 14 April, so anyone desperate to see the Singing Butler has less than a week left!)

Posted by art dunce (# 9258) on :

Critics and educated consumers of art certainly dislike artists like Ross and Kinkade and their mass low art aesthetic. Their success demonstrates that there is room for all kinds of work and work that is accessible to many or most will always have a place. Pierre Bourdieu wrote an interesting piece called La Distinction: A Social Critique of the Judgement of Taste that explores the relationship between aestheitcs and social/ class groupings. My own work because of educational background, canvas size, subject matter and use of materials falls into a different catagory than Mr. Kinkade's but there are plenty of people in the world who would choose viewing a pleasant vista over engaging a challanging canvas and that's grand.

[ 08. April 2012, 15:04: Message edited by: art dunce ]

Posted by art dunce (# 9258) on :

*category* Ipad is so difficult to type on!

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

As I put on the RIP thread, and it applies to both of them, the artwork is fucking awful, but they are masters of sales and marketing.

Yes, they are popular. So are some of the sappiest choruses. That does not make them good. To my mind, they are to the eye like "Jesus is my boyfriend, I love him so" songs are to the ears.

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

Bob Ross was primarily instructing people on how to paint.
Thomas Kincaid was selling schmaltz. That may be the mimosas talking, but it certainly wasn't art IMO! I've seen better at "Starving Artist Sales".

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

quote:
originally posted by Trudy Scrumptuous:
My admiration for Ross also comes second hand as I never watched his TV show, but I have many friends who did and found it affirming and helpful; it really encouraged them to unlock their own inner artist, and I think that's a great use of what may have been a mediocre talent.

You are missing a treat. The last few months of seminary were very stressful for me. Every Friday night, I'd set my alarm so that I could get up early enough to watch reruns of the Joy of Painting. Listening to Bob's soothing voice and watching him paint a landscape always relaxed me.

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
You are missing a treat. The last few months of seminary were very stressful for me. Every Friday night, I'd set my alarm so that I could get up early enough to watch reruns of the Joy of Painting. Listening to Bob's soothing voice and watching him paint a landscape always relaxed me.

Which, I think, is Bob Ross's major artistic talent, and what made him so well known. I don't think many people really cared about the finished product—after all, he made his money off art supplies and instructional videos, not his canvases (which usually got donated to PBS stations to help them during pledge drive season). His voice and gentle, peaceful demeanor are what people really remember—nowadays, if you want that level of pure, gentle stress relief, your options are illegal drugs or My Little Pony.
People thought Kinkade was an artist; Ross was a teacher and Voice. I don't think the two can really be compared.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

When I was still a student living in Holland, the Bob Ross program was aired at hours at which I'd usually come back from a bar, slightly intoxicated.

The program really has a special quality when watched under those circumstances: "Yeah, I can do that."

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I don't think the Bob Ross programme was ever shown in the UK. I do remember, long, long ago, in the days when there was the concept of a Children's Hour on television, watching Sketch Club with Adrian Hill. Who was, I am slightly suprised to learn, the originator of Art Therapy.

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

I've never heard of Bob Ross or Thomas Kinkade before today. But personally, I don't think you can beat Beryl Cook.

M.

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :

Yes, yes you can.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Yes, yes you can.

Ahhhhh, my eyes! Damn me, but they should have been plucked 'ere I saw such things.

Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on :

In case anyone is interested here's some lovely Kinkade parodies.

Kinkade's World of parody

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

Sorry, just popping back to say that I meant Beryl Cook was wonderful, not dreadful. Her paintings make me smile, in a good way.

M.

Posted by snowgoose (# 4394) on :

I think Kinkade's stuff is schlock and I would not hang it in my house, but I have to say some of his stuff made nice Christmas cards. Very cozy and nostalgic and pleasant to look at.

That being said, people should be able to enjoy whatever pleases them without being sneered at for it. My mother just loved Charles Wysocki and it made her happy when she looked at the Wysocki prints on her walls. Not my style, but that goes for a lot of things. I'm sure there are a quite a few people who would sneer mightily at some of the things I have on my walls.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:

quote:
originally posted by Trudy Scrumptuous:
My admiration for Ross also comes second hand as I never watched his TV show, but I have many friends who did and found it affirming and helpful; it really encouraged them to unlock their own inner artist, and I think that's a great use of what may have been a mediocre talent.

You are missing a treat. The last few months of seminary were very stressful for me. Every Friday night, I'd set my alarm so that I could get up early enough to watch reruns of the Joy of Painting. Listening to Bob's soothing voice and watching him paint a landscape always relaxed me.

I am glad to hear that someone else does that. He comes on at 10:00 P.M. on Tuesdays and Thursdays around here, and I defy anyone to not be fast asleep by the end. As relaxing as plainchant. Brings me back to staying home sick from school and being lulled to sleep by Bob Ross. Not to mention the times where you realize that he is teaching a lesson about more than painting. "I like oils. They are forgiving. And all of us need a lot of forgiveness."

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

If it had occurred to him I'm sure Bob Ross could have taught many to paint like Kinkade. Ross too was a businessman (have you seen the price of the Bob Ross branded materials?) but he was a sincere teacher too. I suppose the test is how effectively he could teach people to compose a painting and I'm not convinced. He wins by a couple of lengths but it's still only a few steps ahead of painting by numbers.

[ 11. April 2012, 12:18: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

To me, a person who struggles to color in the lines, Thomas Kinkade's style looks very different from that of Bob Ross. Ross relied on that knife to paint things quicker than they traditionally took. I've seen many amateur paintings that look like Bob Ross could have whipped them out on an episode of The Joy of Painting. Paintings that look Kinkade were all done by second rate professional artists. In other words, I'm willing to give Kinkade a little credit and say I doubt Bob Ross could paint a Thomas Kinkade in under an hour.

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Ross too was a businessman (have you seen the price of the Bob Ross branded materials?)

Have you seen the price for artist's materials in general, especially oil paints?
There's a reason many students use cheaper but less forgiving acrylics.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
In other words, I'm willing to give Kinkade a little credit and say I doubt Bob Ross could paint a Thomas Kinkade in under an hour.

And I would say Kinkade likely could not have produced a Bob Ross in under an hour. Ross was more about the process than the result in any case.

To be clear, I am not a fan either's work. Ross' paintings looked as if they should be next to the psychedelic poster in a '70s university flat. And Kinkade more the art to match the furniture set.

[ 11. April 2012, 15:57: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I'd maintain that nothing offers a quicker road to penury than artist quality watercolours and paper.

Duration of effort is not, I would say, an indicator of quality. Kinkade may very well have taken days over his paintings, but it was still time ill spent.

[ 11. April 2012, 15:57: Message edited by: Firenze ]

Posted by monkeylizard (# 952) on :

Bob Ross was probably far less interested in the painting he was doing than he was in teaching his viewers. Not about painting, but about life. There were no mistakes in his paintings, just "happy accidents". How tall should the tree be? As tall as you want it to be. No matter how tall or short it was, it was "happy" being a tree. We should be like the "happy little tree" and find happiness in the fact that we exist. We have value just by being. Watching old Bob Ross episodes makes me want to be more kind to others. I can't see what's wrong with that.

Kinkade on the other hand was pretty much the opposite. If someone tries to use their Christian faith as a reason for you to do business with them, be sure to count your fingers when you're done shaking hands.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I don't think the Bob Ross programme was ever shown in the UK.

Must have been, because I've seen it more than once. I think come on well after midnight on the kind of digital channels that you can't remember the name of. The only one I remember was something to do with trout in a lake.

As for Kinkade, no I woiuldn't want to live there. I might want to visit for an afternoon, but, yuck!

They seem to me to be pretty obviously large-scale versions of twee illustrations in late 19th or early 20th century books of fairy-stories for kids. Like cross between the Hildebrand brothers and cheap Catholic tat, with the colours turned up to eleven.

Aloso he doesn't understand trees, he gets their shapes and colours wrong, they look false. As I love trees this makes me not feel good about the paintings.

I like buildings too and his feel for them isn't much better. They look like stage flats rather than actual structures that could stand up and be lived in. And though a lot of them are done up to look like old rustic cottages, he can't really do old or rambling or Gothic or assymettrical or organic - his apparently old buildings often don't look like real old buildings that have been used and reused and rebuilt and retrofitted over the decades or centuries and have grown into and out of the landsacape; they look as if they have been deliberately designed to look old but are in fact new. Which of course they are because they are just paitings and only took a few hours to make, not a few centuries. But some artists fake better ruins.

But to live there? The crazy over-bright colours would give most people a headache in the first forty minutes.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Trees? Buildings? I like art so am not a big fan of Kinkade.

BTW, Bob Ross' programme was/is aired in many countries. Fairly certain I ran across it in Germany, years ago.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Trees? Buildings? I like art so am not a big fan of Kinkade.

Yeah, but many - for all I know the majority, maybe almost all - of Kinkade's art is depictions of fantasy landscapes and scenery. The content of the picture, the imaginary place he is representing, is as much part of the art as is the surface of the painting.

Posted by Flausa (# 3466) on :

I admit that I loved watching Bob Ross. I can't remember any particular painting he did nor would I seek to buy something produced by him, because that wasn't the point of why I watched him. He was nurturing and made you feel like you could actually create something just for the joy of it.

Kincade on the other hand has wounded my soul with his dreck. I actually saw a framed original in someone's home, mounted with lights to "properly enhance it" which left me gagging. I think part of the controversy around Kincade involved him producing prints and then having other artists "highlight" them with oil paints and selling them as higher-priced limited edition prints. Oh, and that he was marketing it as Christian art. Yuck.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ken:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Trees? Buildings? I like art so am not a big fan of Kinkade.
Yeah, but many - for all I know the majority, maybe almost all - of Kinkade's art is depictions of fantasy landscapes and scenery. The content of the picture, the imaginary place he is representing, is as much part of the art as is the surface of the painting.

Understood. But not my fantasy or imagination.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ken:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Trees? Buildings? I like art so am not a big fan of Kinkade.
Yeah, but many - for all I know the majority, maybe almost all - of Kinkade's art is depictions of fantasy landscapes and scenery. The content of the picture, the imaginary place he is representing, is as much part of the art as is the surface of the painting.

There's imaginary and then there is implausible or artificial. Generally the backscene of a good model railway layout, such as you may see at a top-class exhibition, is more realistic than one of Kinkade's paintings while I'm sure Ross could easily do a very effective backscene which would enhance the model without dominating it which I am sure Kinkade's would.

Oh dear. I seem to be very down on Kinkade while being a fan of Ross, but the latter does seem to be a dead end for anything other than those who paint for pleasure.

Posted by cmecu (# 17069) on :

Im a certified Bob Ross instructor myself.

When looking at ross paintings, regardless if one likes them or not, because of how they look there is one thing to take note of. If you have all his videos, from season 2 to his last ( i think its 34 off the top of my head ) you can drastically see a difference in how the technique evolved. To some of his earlier paintings to me looking like bleh, to his later paintings that used more detail, better color usage, shadows, lights..
Also you have to remember something, Bob only had 30 minutes to do a painting. There are many things he leaves out, and doesnt go into much detail because of his time frame. You should see an actual painting he did with unlimited time and the same one he did on TV, big difference between the two.
I have got the honor to see his never released paintings that he did for his very last season that was never released before he passed away. The detail on these paintings is awesome. I took a picture of them ( not supposed to [Big Grin]

) and have them on my computer. a little blurry because i was trying to hurry and get a picture of them.

I love bob ross, I think his technique is a good stepping stone to start with and then a person can move onto traditional painting. But to me, its all about anyone and everyone being able to pick up a paint brush and making a world appear before you. Young and old and in between can do it, and that brings a lot of Joy of painting to everyone.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Welcome to The Ship, cmecu. There's an Introduction thread in All Saints, if you care to use it.

Otherwise, stroll the decks, inhale the sea breezes and enjoy the voyage.

Firenze
Heaven Host

[ 22. April 2012, 19:58: Message edited by: Firenze ]

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

I'm with cmecu (great username!)-- I love Bob Ross. He's such a gentle, soothing soul, I would gladly watch him sort nails and feel better afterward. Not wanting to ruin my TV room with paint, I once followed him through a painting with a sketch pad and crayons and it actually turned out pretty good.

Thomas Kincaid makes a very nice jigsaw puzzle.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

I have just heard that the autopsy report on Kinkade shows that he died of an overdose of Valium and alcohol.

That's not the image I had of him.

Moo

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I understood he had some pretty massive business problems, possibly not of the completely-aboveboard type. I'm afraid this finding didn't surprise me.

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