Ship of Fools: Clergy Detectives in Fiction

Thread: Clergy Detectives in Fiction Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=022109

Posted by SFG (# 17081) on :

I've recently started reading some clergy detective stories, and I'd be interested to know if others like this genre and what they've read.

My current one is 'The Night Watch' by Alison Joseph. The 'detective' isn't precisely clergy but near enough for me - a RC sister - Sister Agnes.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

The classic one being, I suppose, Chesterton's Father Brown.

Posted by Roseofsharon (# 9657) on :

And Cadfael would fit the bill too, I suppose.

You might find others to interest you on this site
You can find almost anything on the internet [Roll Eyes]

Posted by SFG (# 17081) on :

Yes, I found that site Rose, and very helpful too.

Its good as well to know which have appealed to other readers, such as us here.

Posted by Polly Plummer (# 13354) on :

I like the Rabbi Small books - and Father Brown of course.

Posted by SFG (# 17081) on :

Can you tell me (us) more about Rabbi Small, Polly?

I don't know them. Is he contemporary or historical.

Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on :

Paul Doherty's Brother Athelstan series, set in 14th-century London.

Also, does Don Camillo count as a detective...?

Posted by SFG (# 17081) on :

I've read the Brother Athelstan series - they are great.

I just looked Paul Doherty up on Wikipedia. Amazing! How can a man be headmaster of an 'Outstanding' secondary school AND write eighty books! And what a range of pen names he uses.

Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :

Like he does for others, Father Brown still rings my bells. [Big Grin]

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

Nobody's said Fr. (Bp.) (Abp.) John Blackwood "Blackie" Ryan yet? I am surprised.

Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :

The website Stop, You're Killing Me indexes mysteries by location, time period, occupation of the main character etc. Here's their list of clerical sleuths.

I'm fond of the Clare Fergusson series by Julia Spencer-Fleming, myself. She obviously knows her stuff and doesn't sugarcoat.

Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Antisocial Alto:
The website Stop, You're Killing Me indexes mysteries by location, time period, occupation of the main character etc. Here's their list of clerical sleuths.

I'm fond of the Clare Fergusson series by Julia Spencer-Fleming, myself. She obviously knows her stuff and doesn't sugarcoat.

My vote goes for her too – as well as Father Brown, of course.

GG

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

quote:
Also, does Don Camillo count as a detective...?

I remember reading Don Camillo as a teenager and laughing at the schemes of both the priest and the Mayor. Peppone, I remember?

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Antisocial Alto:
I'm fond of the Clare Fergusson series by Julia Spencer-Fleming, myself. She obviously knows her stuff and doesn't sugarcoat.

Yes -- I was lucky enough to meet her several months ago. (There's a new book soon to be released!)

I have so many I can't name them off the top of my head, but a few favorites -- not always clerical sleuths, but all eccleciastical mysteries:

Being an Episcopalian, I naturally head towards the Episcopalians and Anglicans -- Kate Charles (probably my favorite), Isabelle Holland, D. M. Greenwood, Lis Howell. (Oddly, all female authors.)

R.C. priests -- the books by William Kienzle and Ralph McInerney. I've read some of Greeley's but am always annoyed afterwards for spending so much time on books I don't like. (The later Kienzle books I felt were time wasters as well.)

For pure sillines -- Suzette Hill and Mark Schweizer.

There are so many more -- I'll try to put together a more complete list.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

On the outer limits of what might be described as 'clergy' there's the Buddhist monk in H R F Keating's Zen There Was Murder.

Posted by Meerkat (# 16117) on :

The 'Merrily Watkins' series of books by Phil Rickman has kept me reading for yonks... and she comes over as so 'normal'... with worries and doubts regarding her faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Rickman#The_Merrily_Watkins_Novels

http://www.philrickman.co.uk/pages/Merrily.html

Posted by SFG (# 17081) on :

Ah yes. I read the first Merrily Watkins a few weeks ago when I started reading in this genre. It read well, but I felt could have been just about 50 pages shorter. A good human character though. I must read more.

I like the old fashioned detective story too - the 'golden age' style where the footman did it in a country house at a weekend party style. Not sure if there are clerical detectives in that period, apart, of course, from the good Fr Brown.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

The detective is not a clergyman, but have you read Holy Disorders by Edmund Crispin?

Posted by Avila (# 15541) on :

I just spotted this on the list above - and as she is based in a part of the country I know - am currently doing a library search to see what ones I can borrow...

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Meerkat:
The 'Merrily Watkins' series of books by Phil Rickman has kept me reading for yonks... and she comes over as so 'normal'... with worries and doubts regarding her faith.

The series is also a paean of love to Herefordshire and makes me incredibly homesick for the place, even though I only lived there for three years, 35 years ago.

This thread makes me remember Stephen Chance's Septimus novels (Septimus and the Minster Ghost, Septimus and the Danedyke Mystery) for the first time in about ... oh, 35 years again. Septimus was a former police Inspector turned vicar, if I remember correctly, with a handy knack for mysteries turning up on his doorstep. This is of course an occupational hazard for any successful fictional amateur detective.

Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :

Mollie Hardwick, who was perhaps best known for writing novels associated with the original Upstairs Downstairs TV series, also wrote the "Doran Fairweather" series of detective novels featuring an antiques dealer and her "friend" who was a clergyman.

http://embden11.home.xs4all.nl/Engels2/hardwickm.htm

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

I like Fr. Brown and Blackie Ryan. Fr. Dowling was a US television series in the 80s.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

I liked Fr. Dowling. It still gets repeated on British TV now and then.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
The detective is not a clergyman, but have you read Holy Disorders by Edmund Crispin?

Edmund Crispin is the pen-name of Bruce Montgomery, a composer-performer of church music, among other genres. In his 'The Case of the Gilded Fly' part of the solution to the crime involves certain stops on the chapel organ, and in 'Holy Disorders' the cathedral organ also figures in the crime.
Also (and I may be quoting inaccurately) 'Holy Disorders' contains one of my all-time favorite lines -- 'Come and play for the services, someone's murdering all the organists. Don't know why, the choir's not THAT bad.'

Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :

I hoped someone would mention Merrily Watkins!

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I've recently come across Donna Fletcher Crowe's The Monastery Murders series with a central character an American, Felicity Howard, studying at a fictional Community of the Transfiguration in Yorkshire. (The author is connected with Mirfield.) Together with a Father Anthony, she investigates dark events linked with history, in the first with Cuthbert, in the second with the Knights of St John and, separately, Julian of Norwich.

I don't find them as gripping as Greenwood's books, or Tremayne's Fidelma and Eadulf books. (Do they count?) The churchmanship is high, which isn't something I feel totally at home in. Though Crowe is American, she is clearly familiar with Britain, and I haven't been brought up short by anything obviously wrong - she makes a point of getting landscape right.

The stories of the first two are of the racing across the country in pursuit of clues sort, though not in the Dan Brown category - the McGuffins aren't too demanding of suspension of disbelief. (DB gets a mention in the Templar Church episode.)

I also like Irene Allen's Quaker mysteries set in Cambridge (USA), though it's probably stretching things to call a Meeting Clerk a clergy detective.

Penny

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Does William of Baskerville in "The Name of the Rose" count? He was a Franciscan Friar.

Brilliant book, awful film.

Posted by Polly Plummer (# 13354) on :

SFG, Rabbi Small lives in a small town in the USA, in the fifties or sixties I think, and solves the crimes by Rabbinic reasoning. The social setting is a bit old-fashioned and sexist but the stories are interesting. The members of the rabbi's
congregation are (many of them) pretty ignorant so he gets to explain stuff about Judaism, which helps ignorant readers like me. The author is Harry Kemelman.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

In the rare category of female religious detectives, there's Boris Akunin's Sister Pelagia.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

I am partial to Fr. Brown and I have also enjoyed several Blackie Ryan novels.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

Isn't P D James's Inspector Dalgliesh the son of a clergyman?

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Not quite a detective (except in Call for the Dead ), but John le Carre's George Smiley was based on the Rev Vivian Green

Posted by Paddy O'Furniture (# 12953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I like Fr. Brown and Blackie Ryan. Fr. Dowling was a US television series in the 80s.

Fr. Dowling was incredibly silly and hokey but it had Tracy Nelson on it and she is soooooooo hot! Then again, as a former Ctholic, I DO have this thing about nuns! [Big Grin]

Posted by Masha (# 10098) on :

Darn it Meerkat - you've cost me money! [Big Grin]

I bought the first Merrily Watkins and I'm rather enjoying it as it's so different to what I'd usually read.

I bought it yesterday and had half of it read by the time I went to sleep - with a two hour break to lead a bible study. So that's pretty decent going. It must be good!

Posted by Meerkat (# 16117) on :

Pleased to be of service, Masha. They are a damn good read, even if there is a similar theme...

Posted by Roseofsharon (# 9657) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Masha:
Darn it Meerkat - you've cost me money!
I bought the first Merrily Watkins and I'm rather enjoying it as it's so different to what I'd usually read.

Me too. 450 pages in five days - I think I've broken my 'readers block'!

Posted by Edith (# 16978) on :

If you haven't read anything by William Brodrick you are missing a treat. Start with The Sixth Lamentation. Father Anselm, a former lawyer turned monk engages in detection and has a deep moral vision and profound psychological insights. And this is combined with superb writing.

Posted by Masha (# 10098) on :

Right, I've now finished the first two Merrily Watkins books.

Weird but quite cool. Dead easy to read.

Posted by Avila (# 15541) on :

I'm jumping in midway - remains of the altar is the only one in the library at the time...

Posted by Laxton's Superba (# 228) on :

Thank you to all those who have recommended the Merrily Watkins books - I am thoroughly hooked,and, knowing the area quite well, it's a bonus.
Thank you too to whoever it was either on this thread or another who recommended the Jordan Lacey books - those too have proved very readable, even if for some odd reason the library only had them in large print.....

Posted by Jante (# 9163) on :

I've always really enjoyed the Merrily EWatkins books. Looking forward to reading some more. [Razz]

Posted by SFG (# 17081) on :

Here is a new one on me. Sister Mary Helen is the detective and the author is a nun, Sister Carol Anne O'Marie.

I jZust got a book in this series, seems light and fun.

Posted by Meerkat (# 16117) on :

OK... A tangent of sorts. Since I first mentioned Merrily Watkins, I feel I should ask... if a film was to be made, who would you see playing her?

Posted by Masha (# 10098) on :

Good question (I got through the first three in a week by the way...thanks for helping me drain my bank account Meerkat [Big Grin]

)

Hmm...Difficult. I want to know why it's important to the stories that she's beautiful, just out of interest. It doesn't say that much about her as I recall - just that she has dark hair, it doesn't include ethnic background either so...

How about Naomie Harris?

Rachel Weisz or Emily Mortimer?

[ 18. May 2012, 18:22: Message edited by: Masha ]

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

I love Peter Tremayne's Sister Fidelma novels.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
I love Peter Tremayne's Sister Fidelma novels.

Me, too. They're unusual, atmospheric and intelligent. Am I right in thinking she was of the old Celtic monastic tradition, in the days when Monks and Nuns could marry??!!

Like Lord Jestacost I love the Merrily Watkins books, as much for Hereford/shire as the story. I lived there for several years, and loved it; and I find myself wandering round the city in my head as I read the book. As it happened I spent a lot of time in and around the Bishop's Palace and courtyard, and Cathedral area, so it almost feels like home reading about Merrily's office tucked away in the gateway entrance to the Palace!

The books are a bit OTT - to say the least - but Merrily is a great character, and Rickman's depiction of the Welsh Marches/Herefordshire folk is pretty much spot on, imo!

Posted by SFG (# 17081) on :

Sister Fidelma is great and it gives a fascinating insight into the Celtic church of the time. tremayne writes with authority! And I do hope he is accurate - its a splendid way of learning about a different period of history and greeting the feel of it.

Cadafel is similar, but for me Tremayne's detail is greater than Elllis Peters, and slightly more evocative.

I'd love to see the Sr Fidelma series televised.

Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :

If Phil Rickman is experiencing a sudden up-turn in sales I think the reason can be found on this thread. I decided to have a browse at my local bookshop yesterday, and the first Rickman book I picked up started with a loving description of a mountain I can see from my bedroom window. SO that's me hooked.

I decided to be logical and buy the first Merrily Watkins book rather than the first I picked up, and finished it in a day. Compelling and fairly easy reading, but I was a little disappointed by the ending - the tying up of loose ends was implied rather than described and there were a few characters I wanted to know more about, but I will be reading more.

Posted by Meerkat (# 16117) on :

Look what I started by mentioning Merrily Watkins!!! I should have asked Phil Rickman for a rake-off of his royalties! [Big Grin]

Posted by Kasra (# 10631) on :

Not exactly a clergy detective, but the Church features pretty highly... Lis Howell's books "Flower Arranger at All Saints" and "Chorister at the Abbey" are ones I've enjoyed.

Disclaimer: Lis is related to me. But that doesn't mean I like all her books - not so wild about the earlier ones. These two are my favorites.

Kx

Posted by philipg (# 17137) on :

There are now over 260 clergy or near-clergy detectives reviewed on my Clerical Detectives site (http://detecs.org) but I'm always looking for others! I'm quite amazed that there are so many.

Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on :

A brief diversion - has anyone ever wondered why they're called 'detectives' (an adjective), rather than 'detectors'? It's because when the first official body of them was formed, in England in the 1850s, they were called 'Detective policemen', but that was a bit long-winded, so the second word was soon dropped.
Also, do you know what 'C.I.D.' stands for? 'Coppers in disguise'.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

Also known as Criminal Investigation Division?

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0