Thread: Holy Week......nearly here! Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
:
I've just printed a list of Holy Week services for the edification and reminding of the faithful, and I wonder if we're overdoing it a bit.......
The Vicar of our next-door parish and I have been trying to get our various neighbouring churches to hold joint services in Holy Week (she and I collaborate each year with a Holy Week Taize Prayer, alternating between churches), so the programme facing our little congregationette this year is:
Palm Sunday
1030am Liturgy of Palms, Parish Mass and Confirmation (yes, I know - an odd time, but it was planned for February and postponed because of the snow....and you have to grab Bishops when you can!)
5pm Forward-in-Faith Service of Penitence elsewhere in the Diocese (we hosted it last year, and managed to get our Diocesan Bishop along to preach)
Monday in Holy Week
930am Morning Prayer
8pm Meditation and Compline at next-door parish
Tuesday in Holy Week
930am Morning Prayer
8pm Taize Prayer at our place
Wednesday in Holy Week
930am Morning Prayer
8pm Music and Meditation at our next-door parish on t'other side (charismatic-evo!)
Maundy Thursday
930am Morning Prayer
11am Chrism Mass somewhere for our p-in-c
730pm Solemn Mass with foot-washing, procession etc.
1045pm Compline
Good Friday
930am Morning Prayer
followed by coffee + hot cross buns
11am Solemn Liturgy of the Day
Holy Saturday
930am Morning Prayer (no Mass) followed by preparation of the Church.....
8pm Easter Vigil at a parish across the river, where our p-in-c is preaching
Easter Sunday morning
930am Matins (BCP)
1030am Blessing of the Easter Garden, Lighting of the Paschal Candle, Parish Mass and Renewal of Baptismal Vows (followed by seasonal refreshments, including wine and chocolate)
Easter Sunday afternoon - collapse of p-in-c, churchwardens and ministry team into humpled creeps.....
....and this year we are not attempting (as in past years) to have a midday Mass and a midday Stations of the Cross in Holy Week! Who said Christmas was the Church's busiest time?
Having said all that, I'm really looking forward to Holy Week. Yes, it is a busy time, but O what joy to see the faithful growing in faith as they follow Our Lord!
Ian J.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
Palm Sunday 1030 Procession of palms and Sung
Eucharist
Monday to Thursday incl. 0900 Morning Prayer
Monday and Thursday 1930 ecumenical, churches together services at different venues
Wednesday 2000 Stations
Thursday 2000 Eucharist of the last Supper, footwashing, procession and watch until Midnight.
Friday 1400 The Liturgy (Readings, veneration of the cross, solemn prayers and Holy Communion)
Sunday 0700 Easter Liturgy part 1 (New fire, readings)
Breakfast
1030 Easter Liturgy resumes with renewal of baptismal vows and sung eucharist
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
:
I will be in Milan for what is Palm Sunday everywhere else... I will probably go to the Latin Mass at the Basilica of Sant'Ambrogio and try to work out what delights the modern Ambrosian Rite has in store!
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
what delights the modern Ambrosian Rite has in store!
The greeting of peace in the Common Worship position, IIRC.
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
what delights the modern Ambrosian Rite has in store!
The greeting of peace in the Common Worship position, IIRC.
Well, yes, that, plus a few funny extra prayers and sentences in the Canon and three Kyries instead of Kyrie/Christe/Kyrie. But I'm not sure what will happening for anything relating to Palms!
Posted by Michael Astley (# 5638) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
what delights the modern Ambrosian Rite has in store!
The greeting of peace in the Common Worship position, IIRC.
Although I do know where you mean, (prior to the Offertory), Common Worship has four positions for the Peace. I remember this because it's rubrical sanction of the Roman position was one of the things that I welcomed when Common Worship was introduced.
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
:
(Whisper. Michael's quite right. Perhaps I should have said the Byzantine position. In fact Common Worship is probably the only liturgical book other than the Roman Missal, which allows the peace after the Lord's Prayer.)
I love Holy Week.
The best reason for having lights, incense, altar hangings and accompanied music is that it is so impressive when they are left off for a day. (OK Thursday evening to Saturday night.)
Posted by St.Silas the carter (# 12867) on
:
Palm Sunday:
8:30 said mass
10:30 sung mass (1962 missal)
12:15 solemn mass and procession (1970 missal)
5:00 solemn vespers and benediction
8:00 said mass.
Spy Wednesday:
Tenebrae sung by the schola, 7:30 PM
Maundy Thursday:
7:30 solemn mass, the maundy, and procession. Watch at the altar of repose until midnight.
Good Friday:
Tenebrae sung by the schola,7:00 AM
Confessions: 11:00-2:30
3:00 Mass of the presanctified
Holy Saturday:
Tenebrae sung by the schola,7:00 AM
Blessing of easter baskets, 3:00
Confessions: 12:00-3:00
Vigil and first solemn mass of easter, 8:30 PM
Easter Day:
8:30 sung mass (1970 missal)
10:30 sung mass (1962 missal)
12:15 solemn mass (1970 missal)
Posted by Michael Astley (# 5638) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
...because it's rubrical sanction...
I swear that this is a result of Android's auto-"correction" and was not a conscious choice on my part. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Posted by Fuzzipeg (# 10107) on
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I find it hard to believe that no-one has Stations of the Cross!
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
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I'm intrigued by the blessing of Easter baskets on Saturday afternoon.
Posted by Michael Astley (# 5638) on
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Same here. I know that it's popular in Russian culture but wasn't aware of it among Roman Catholics in Pennsylvania.
[ 16. March 2012, 17:59: Message edited by: Michael Astley ]
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Fuzzipeg:
I find it hard to believe that no-one has Stations of the Cross!
We have been doing it every Friday evening through Lent, so it probably will not crop up in Holy Week
As for Holy Week it will be as follows in my shack:
Palm Sunday
8.35am MP
9.00am Low Mass
10.30am Blessing of Palms, Procession and Mass (1967 Scottish for the Palms, then 1928 BCP/AM for the Mass)
Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday
9.35am MP
10.00am Low Mass
Maundy Thursday
7.00pm Solemn Mass
Good Friday
11am MP, Litany and Ante-Communion (BCP)
12noon Stations of the Cross (maybe)
7.00pm Good Friday Liturgy (Scottish 1967 version)
Holy Saturday
7.30pm Easter Vigil (Scottish 1967 version)
Easter
8.35am Morning Prayer
9.00am Low Mass
10.30am High Mass
The Scottish 1967 Holy Week is a nice adaption of the Pius XII Triduum to High Anglican sensibilities which I have come to favour over the years. However, the visual side tends to be more Pius V than Pius XII - volet all the way through on Palm Sunday, and Black on Good Friday. Also no foot washing on Mundy Thursday as that it a relatively late addition to the service in parish churches.
All in all I should be thoroughly knackered by that point and the servers will be looking to lynch the priest, so at that point we will take a couple of days off.
PD
Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I'm intrigued by the blessing of Easter baskets on Saturday afternoon.
At St Hyacinth Basilica, a Polish Roman Catholic parish in Chicago, food baskets are blessed from 1 to 4 p.m. on Holy Saturday. It's quite a traffic jam on the nearby streets, with many cars driven by men who drop off their wives (or wives who drop off their husbands) to wait in line, and two lines of people with baskets move up the center aisle toward two priests with big brush-type aspergillums with which they splatter food baskets and their bearers. Quite the spectacle. The priests take turns splattering and going to the ambo to announce the times of the nine Easter Masses in Polish and English. After receiving the blessing, some families pose in the nearby grotto to have their photo taken with the corpse of Our Lord. No smiling, please!
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Fuzzipeg:
I find it hard to believe that no-one has Stations of the Cross!
We do - on Wednesday - see my post above.
Posted by Mockingbird (# 5818) on
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As a prelude to Holy Week, look for the new Paschal crescent in the western sky at sunset on Saturday, March 24, when the Paschal lunar month in the Gregorian calendar begins.
The new crescent moon can be a truly lovely sight. A Jewish custom, which has an analog in Christian folk-customs of some lands, is to greet the new moon with the following rhyme:
barukh yotsrekh, barukh 'osekh, barukh qonekh, barukh borekh. (Blessed is your shaper, blessed is your maker, blessed is your keeper, blessed is your creator.)
In the old calendar, the Paschal lunar month does not start until 4 days later, at sunset on March 28.
The 14th of the month (the Paschal full moon) is on April 7 this year, so Easter itself is as early as it can be in the lunar month, on the 15th of the moon, and if you have a clear sky you will see a full moon climbing as the festival begins at sunset on Saturday, April 7.
In the old calendar, the moon is not full until 4 days later, on April 11th.
[ 17. March 2012, 00:45: Message edited by: Mockingbird ]
Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
Same here. I know that it's popular in Russian culture but wasn't aware of it among Roman Catholics in Pennsylvania.
It makes sense if there are a lot of Poles in the neighborhood. They're fellow Slavs.
Doing it on Holy Saturday makes sense because either it enables the food baskets to be already blessed on Easter Sunday morning, or because it's a remnant of when the Vigil was still celebrated on Holy Saturday during the day, or because of both.
Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
(Whisper. Michael's quite right. Perhaps I should have said the Byzantine position. In fact Common Worship is probably the only liturgical book other than the Roman Missal, which allows the peace after the Lord's Prayer.)
(Ssssshhh! The 1979 BCP of the Episcopal Church in the USA allows it there, as well. )
Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on
:
Palm Sunday
Solemn Mass & Palm Procession 9AM
Low Mass 11:30AM
Confessions before both Masses
Monday in Holy Week
Low Mass 6:30 & 9AM
Confessions before both Masses
Tuesday in Holy Week
Low Mass 6:30 & 9AM
Confessions before both Masses
Spy Wednesday
Low Mass 6:30 & 9AM
Confessions before both Masses
Maundy Thursday
Confessions 6:3---7:45PM
Solemmn Msss 8PM
(includes washing of feet, procession to altar of repose, stripping of the altars, vigil)
Good Friday
Confessions 1-2PM
Liturgy of the Passion 3PM
Quiet Fish Dinner, w/ recollection 5:30PM
Stations of the Cross 7PM
Holy Saturday
Confessions 10--11AM, 8-9PM
Easter Vigil Liturgy 10:30PM
Easter Day
Low Mass 9AM
Easter Egg Hunt after Low Mass
High Mass 11:30AM
Divine Mercy (Low) Sunday
Low Mass 9AM
High Mass 11:30AM
Confessions 1-2PM
Divine Mercy Blessing & Chaplet 3PM
We used to have the blessing of Easter baskets on Holy Saturday, but not many people came.
Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on
:
Baskets for the RCs certainly get blessed on Holy Saturday here. It has the affect that people start to eat the eggs afterwards and consider that the fast has been broken.
My protest that Easter hasn't started yet are not listened to, as I am fighting tradition.
I get annoyed with the non-observation of Holy Saturday every year (not just in Poland), but that's a matter for another thread.
Posted by jordan32404 (# 15833) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
quote:
Originally posted by Fuzzipeg:
I find it hard to believe that no-one has Stations of the Cross!
We have been doing it every Friday evening through Lent, so it probably will not crop up in Holy Week
As for Holy Week it will be as follows in my shack:
Palm Sunday
8.35am MP
9.00am Low Mass
10.30am Blessing of Palms, Procession and Mass (1967 Scottish for the Palms, then 1928 BCP/AM for the Mass)
Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday
9.35am MP
10.00am Low Mass
Maundy Thursday
7.00pm Solemn Mass
Good Friday
11am MP, Litany and Ante-Communion (BCP)
12noon Stations of the Cross (maybe)
7.00pm Good Friday Liturgy (Scottish 1967 version)
Holy Saturday
7.30pm Easter Vigil (Scottish 1967 version)
Easter
8.35am Morning Prayer
9.00am Low Mass
10.30am High Mass
The Scottish 1967 Holy Week is a nice adaption of the Pius XII Triduum to High Anglican sensibilities which I have come to favour over the years. However, the visual side tends to be more Pius V than Pius XII - volet all the way through on Palm Sunday, and Black on Good Friday. Also no foot washing on Mundy Thursday as that it a relatively late addition to the service in parish churches.
All in all I should be thoroughly knackered by that point and the servers will be looking to lynch the priest, so at that point we will take a couple of days off.
PD
Nice BCP option on Good Friday!
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on
:
As a choir person I think of rehearsals and services..
Saturday before Palm Sunday - rehearsal of the Passion Gospel (because we are chanting it and the choir is doing the crowd scenes and of course we are doing it in Latin... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
)
Palm Sunday - 8:30 Said service, 10:30 Sung Eucharist (with choir)
Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday - No services listed (I'm sure we will have choir practice sometime...)
Thursday - Maundy Thursday service at 7:00 with choir (last time organ will be on for awhile)
Friday - Good Friday service at 12:00 with choir (but no organ, all accapella)
Saturday - No services, egg stuffing and dying and probable choir rehearsal
Sunday - 0dark30 - Easter Vigil with choir support (of those of us willing to get up that early, organ back on in the middle), 8:30 Said Service, 10:30 Sung Eucharist with choir.
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
Palm/Passion Sunday:
Liturgy of the Palms and the Holy Eucharist
Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of Holy Week:
6:30 pm Holy Eucharist in chapel
Maundy Thursday
Agapé dinner in the parish hall with the Liturgy of the Word, then the Holy Eucharist in the church, with foot washing and stripping of the altar. Followed by Watch in the Garden of Repose (chapel).
Good Friday
7 a.m. Good Friday Liturgy
6:30 p.m. Mass of the Pre-Sanctified
Easter Vigil
8:00 pm followed by festive reception
Easter Sunday
The Holy Eucharist followed by champagne brunch and Easter egg hunt
Posted by Fuzzipeg (# 10107) on
:
Palm Sunday: 7,30 Mass & Blessing of Palms
9,30 Sung Mass ditto
18,00 Sung Mass ditto
Monday, Tuesday & Wednesday:
6,00 Mass
13,10 Mass
Holy Thursday:
6,00 Mass
10,00 Chrism Mass at the Cathedral
(Down the road)
13,10 Mass
19,00 Mass of the Lord's Supper
Good Friday: 10,30: Solemn Lauds & Sermon
15,00: Celebration of the Lord's
Passion
Holy Saturday:
19,00: Easter Vigil
Easter Day: 7,30: Mass
9,00: Solemn Lauds
9,30: Sung Mass
Easter Monday:9,00 Mass
We also have Stations of the Cross on Fridays during Lent but not on Good Friday.
[ 19. March 2012, 08:40: Message edited by: Fuzzipeg ]
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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Re Stations of the Cross - we hold this trad devotion on Friday evenings during Lent (with attendance ranging from 11 to 5 + the church mice), but not during Holy Week.
Last year, we tried - on Good Friday - Morning Prayer at 930am, Stations at 10am and the Solemn Liturgy at 11am, but it was just too much of a rush. This year, Stations have been omitted.....
Ian J.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
7 a.m. Good Friday Liturgy
6:30 p.m. Mass of the Pre-Sanctified
What's the difference? I've always understood these to be different terms for the same thing.
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on
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We used to have Stations of the Cross, and also the Easter Vigil on the Saturday. But that was the old vicar.
Now, we still have Compline and address by a visiting speaker on the Mon, Tue, Wed; Maundy Thursday Eucharist with foot-washing; three hours at the cross (address and meditation, followed by the Last Hour choral Eucharist) and Easter Day services, so not a huge amount of change. The main addition is a donkey leading the Palm Sunday procession.
Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
7 a.m. Good Friday Liturgy
6:30 p.m. Mass of the Pre-Sanctified
What's the difference? I've always understood these to be different terms for the same thing.
I think they're completely different. The Good Friday liturgy includes Solemn Collects, Veneration of the Cross, lessons, and a sermon (not in that order, necessarily). It need not include reception of Holy Communion. If it does, that bit is a sort of Mass of the Pre-sanctified. Looks like they're doing that bit separately.
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on
:
Passion/ Palm Sunday (AKA Music Sunday) one 10:30 traditional service.
Wednesday 6:30 Holy Week service after the fellowship dinner.
Good Friday 6:00 service preceded by prayer from 1:00-6:00.
Holy Saturday Easter Egg Hunt.
Easter 0dark30 Sunrise service. 9:00 contemporary service, 10:30 traditional. And an Easter brunch.
FUMC and jj sitting under the candle.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mockingbird:
As a prelude to Holy Week, look for the new Paschal crescent in the western sky at sunset on Saturday, March 24, when the Paschal lunar month in the Gregorian calendar begins.
Jupiter and Venus will still be bright in the sky at the same time, close to each other, the Moon, and the setting Sun, and if you are lucky you will see Mars and Saturn rising over in the opposite corner of the sky ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
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Cribbed mostly from the parish webpage:
Wednesday: Stations of the Cross
Thursday: Agape Potluck & Maundy Thursday Liturgy
Friday: The Seven Last Words
Friday: Good Friday Liturgy
Saturday: The Easter Vigil and annual Omelet and Champagne Celebration!
Sunday: Easter Sunday, with trumpets, Eucharist, and flowering of the cross
Or, as I described it to my parents, "Lector, EM, Lector, Lector, EM." I get Abraham and Isaac on the Great Vigil.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
7 a.m. Good Friday Liturgy
6:30 p.m. Mass of the Pre-Sanctified
What's the difference? I've always understood these to be different terms for the same thing.
I think they're completely different. The Good Friday liturgy includes Solemn Collects, Veneration of the Cross, lessons, and a sermon (not in that order, necessarily). It need not include reception of Holy Communion. If it does, that bit is a sort of Mass of the Pre-sanctified. Looks like they're doing that bit separately.
The 'Mass of the Presanctified' is just the old-fashioned name for the Good Friday Liturgy = readings, solemn prayers, veneration and Hv from reserved sacrament.
The Communion is optional in the c of E because some MOTR believe that there shouldn't be HC on this solemn day and because some evangelicals have a full-blooded celebration of the eucharist to 'celebrate the Lord's death until he come.'
Posted by Fuzzipeg (# 10107) on
:
Oh dear, lots of Anglicans on this thread but not one mention of Litany & Ante-Communion. Is it extinct, even in Evo circles?
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
7 a.m. Good Friday Liturgy
6:30 p.m. Mass of the Pre-Sanctified
What's the difference? I've always understood these to be different terms for the same thing.
I think they're completely different. The Good Friday liturgy includes Solemn Collects, Veneration of the Cross, lessons, and a sermon (not in that order, necessarily). It need not include reception of Holy Communion. If it does, that bit is a sort of Mass of the Pre-sanctified. Looks like they're doing that bit separately.
Right. You can find the Good Friday Liturgy on page 276 here. We are having the liturgy without communion in the morning and with communion in the evening. We used to do it the other way around (which made more sense to me, having Jesus effectively "gone" by later in the day) but we are in an interregnum now and things are different.
[ 20. March 2012, 13:18: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Fuzzipeg:
Oh dear, lots of Anglicans on this thread but not one mention of Litany & Ante-Communion. Is it extinct, even in Evo circles?
It was mentioned upthread. I used to go to a church with the old church on the opposite side of the road, where Sunday Matins and Evensong took place.
They use to have Matins and Ante-Communion on Good Friday for the old brigade, until one year nobody turned up and the Rector saw that as a good reason for dropping it.
I imagine the majority of English Evangelical Anglicans nowadays wouldn't have a clue what Matins and Ante Communion is. They might well be a bit hazy about Matins.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
7 a.m. Good Friday Liturgy
6:30 p.m. Mass of the Pre-Sanctified
What's the difference? I've always understood these to be different terms for the same thing.
I think they're completely different. The Good Friday liturgy includes Solemn Collects, Veneration of the Cross, lessons, and a sermon (not in that order, necessarily). It need not include reception of Holy Communion. If it does, that bit is a sort of Mass of the Pre-sanctified. Looks like they're doing that bit separately.
Right. You can find the Good Friday Liturgy on page 276 here. We are having the liturgy without communion in the morning and with communion in the evening. We used to do it the other way around (which made more sense to me, having Jesus effectively "gone" by later in the day) but we are in an interregnum now and things are different.
I see - though I thought it was forbidden to have any of the Triduum litutgies more than once in the same church.
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
:
It's a simple thing, but I'm sure it makes a big difference that in the UK Good Friday is a public holiday. It may be a good thing if the Liturgy of the Day was not always attached to the hours of 12 to 3, as is usual in the UK.
Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on
:
In the rc church the Good Friday liturgy is ,in principle,celebrated only once. If however there is a real need it may be celebrated more than once.
At the moment the UK includes Scotland where Good Friday is a bank holiday,i.e. the banks are closed,but it is not generally in Scotland a public holiday.
The Good Friday liturgy is generally celebrated at 3pm in the rc church but can be at other times either 5pm or occasionally later in the evening.
The rc cathedral in Edinburgh has sometimes two Good Friday celebrations of the liturgy - one in English and one in Polish.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
Good Friday is a normal working day here, so there is absolutely no point in having the Good Friday Liturgy in the afternoon. I go for early evening - usually 7pm - the hopes of having a reasonably large congregation. The older/Low Church crowd prefer Matin, Litany and Ante-Communion so that occurs at 11am. I usually get a dozen at the 11am and two dozen at 7pm - which is about 80% of ASA.
PD
Posted by Perkin (# 16928) on
:
Does anyone have a Good Friday evening devotional service as a quiet service - such as Maria Desolata or a Pieta service?
As I've said on the thread on after Good Friday liturgy thread I think this quiet gathering at the sepulchre is appropriate. Sometimes in the rush of things we forget to reflect on the death of Our Lord.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by jordan32404:
Nice BCP option on Good Friday!
Actually, quite a lot of our Holy Week celebations is BCP, it is the optional extras that tend to be from elsewhere - usually the 1967 Scottish supplement, which is excellent.
My parish high 'very High 1928 BCP' rather than 'American Missal' which would tend to define a lot of our Liturgical tradition. One friend of mine who comes from a Missal tradition used to say that my parish was one of the few that was still genuinely 'Prayer Book Catholic.'
PD
Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on
:
My regular place is having, as usual,
SUNDAY
Usual Sunday schedule of Eucharists at 8, 9 and 11:15am with Palm processions before 9 and 11pm.
WEDNESDAY
Tenebrae at 7pm - too early i think as the sunset doesn't occur til after the service is over
THURSDAY
5:45 pm Pot luck Agape supper
7pm Maundy Thurday Eucharist with footwashing and followed by the stripping of the altar
GOOD FRIDAY
the 7 Last Words from noon to 3
Stations of the Cross -- at 6pm
the Good Friday liturgy at 7pm (But, if like last year, without communion ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
)
As is customary, there is, in our chapel, an all nite vigil before the reserved sacrament from the end of the Maundy Thursday liturgy until the 7 Last Words. Since we've started having daily morning prayer in the chapel, i wonder if we will have it Friday morning.
Nearly every RC church as well as every Episc place that I have been familiar with has had the Good Frifay liturgy in the evening, because of it being a working day in the US. However, the highest-up-the-candle Episc church in Atlanta makes the Good Friday liturgy into a 3-hour service (from Noon to 3 obviously) by incorporating the 7 Last Words sermons after the Passion Gospel.
SUNDAY
Easter Vigil at 6am - folks are encouraged to bring bells
Easter Eucharists with brass, tympany etc. at 9 and 11:15am. The kiddies do a flowering of the cross at the beginning of the 9am
As far as I can tell, every Episcopal church in Atlanta, with one exception, is doing the Easter Vigil at 6am. The cathedral just moved it to this location -- previously I think they were doing Saturday nite. I would imagine all the RC parishes are doing the vigil Saturday night.
[ 26. March 2012, 19:07: Message edited by: malik3000 ]
Posted by seasick (# 48) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Perkin:
Does anyone have a Good Friday evening devotional service as a quiet service - such as Maria Desolata or a Pieta service?
We're trying a "service of light and darkness" (the Methodist Worship Book's distant relative of tenebrae) on Good Friday evening. I'm not sure how many will come but I hope we'll have a few.
I'll be involved in two lots of the Good Friday liturgy during the day (in different churches, pace leo) and stations of the cross.
Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
We used to have Stations of the Cross, and also the Easter Vigil on the Saturday. But that was the old vicar.
Now, we still have Compline and address by a visiting speaker on the Mon, Tue, Wed; Maundy Thursday Eucharist with foot-washing; three hours at the cross (address and meditation, followed by the Last Hour choral Eucharist) and Easter Day services, so not a huge amount of change. The main addition is a donkey leading the Palm Sunday procession.
Chorister have I read this correctly? You're not having a choral Eucharist on Good Friday,surely?
On another note, will you be getting the Vicar of Bray to help out on the Palm Sunday procession???? ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Fuzzipeg:
Oh dear, lots of Anglicans on this thread but not one mention of Litany & Ante-Communion. Is it extinct, even in Evo circles?
Nope, we are still doing it at St Hardup in the Backstreets. 11am Good Friday, and possibly 11am Easter Even too.
PD
Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Perkin:
Does anyone have a Good Friday evening devotional service as a quiet service - such as Maria Desolata or a Pieta service?
As I've said on the thread on after Good Friday liturgy thread I think this quiet gathering at the sepulchre is appropriate. Sometimes in the rush of things we forget to reflect on the death of Our Lord.
St. Silas Kentish Town usually has Maria Desolata at 5pm on Good Friday. I don't know anywhere else that does it.
Posted by Hart (# 4991) on
:
This is what we're doing for Triduum at placement parish:
(Palm Sunday:
6:15pm Taize)
Holy Thursday:
8am Morning Prayer
7pm Mass of the Lord's Supper
Good Friday:
8am Morning Prayer
2pm Stations
3pm The Lord's Passion
7pm Reconciliation
8:30pm Tenebrae
Holy Saturday:
8am Morning Prayer
8:30pm Easter Vigil
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Fuzzipeg:
Oh dear, lots of Anglicans on this thread but not one mention of Litany & Ante-Communion. Is it extinct, even in Evo circles?
I would have though, especially in Evo circles.
Posted by Robin (# 71) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
It's a simple thing, but I'm sure it makes a big difference that in the UK Good Friday is a public holiday.
Err..., not in Scotland it isn't. However, at least this year Holy Week happens to coincide with the university's "April Break".
Robin
Posted by Robin (# 71) on
:
Our Holy Week services are traditional, so I shan't repeat the list. The only distinctive feature is
Holy Saturday
11:30pm
Ceremony of the new fire, Easter Vigil, and
first mass of Easter.
Not that there's anything unusual about the ceremonies themselves, but an Easter "Midnight Mass" seems relatively rare these days.
Robin
Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on
:
To be honest although it's a public holiday south of the border there are so many places open these days I can't help wondering if churches shouldn't rethink the times. I know it goes against the grain
I'm not sure if other shipmates realise this but as I understand it a bank holiday is just that - a bank holiday in Scotland and not necessarily a public one.South of the border there seems to be no difference - I mean they're often called bank holidays but they are also public holidays
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
Irony: we used to have a city centre ecumenical procession for Good Friday, through what a few years ago were deserted streets. As the streets have got busier, the ecumenical enthusiasm has faded, so just when it was beginning to have a point it fizzled out.
Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on
:
Palm Sunday
8am Eucharist
10am Eucharist for Palm Sunday, including Blessing of Palms, procession and reading of the Passion according to Mark
6.30pm Stations of the Cross
April 2nd–4th (Mon-Wed)
6.45am and 8.45am Morning Prayer
9pm Compline
April 5th Maundy Thursday
6.45am and 8.45am Morning Prayer
10am Eucharist in the Lady Chapel
7.30pm Eucharist for Maundy Thursday, stripping of the Altars, followed by the Watch (till midnight)
April 6th Good Friday
7.45am Morning Prayer
8.15am Morning Prayer & Communion
9.15am - United Walk of Witness
2pm A service for Good Friday
April 7th Easter Eve
8.45am Morning Prayer
<10.00 am extra-liturgical Cleansing of the Temple>
8pm Easter Vigil Service
April 8th Easter Day
6am United Sunrise Service at The Bandstand in the Park
8am Holy Communion
10am Sung Eucharist for Easter Day, including lighting the Easter fire, renewal of baptismal vows, Baptism and an Easter Egg hunt!
7.30pm "Stillness on Sunday"
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Liturgylover:
quote:
Originally posted by Perkin:
Does anyone have a Good Friday evening devotional service as a quiet service - such as Maria Desolata or a Pieta service?
As I've said on the thread on after Good Friday liturgy thread I think this quiet gathering at the sepulchre is appropriate. Sometimes in the rush of things we forget to reflect on the death of Our Lord.
St. Silas Kentish Town usually has Maria Desolata at 5pm on Good Friday. I don't know anywhere else that does it.
We had a thread solely devoted to this last year (or maybe the year before) and there was quite an improvise list of places that do it.
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
:
What is Maria Desolata, as a matter of interest? I remember Holy Cross Cromer Street, King's Cross advertising it in the past (with Maria Consolata on Easter Sunday).
I take it Maria Consolata is crowning our Lady's statue and singing the Regina Caeli. What is Maria Desolata? The Way of the Cross singing the Stabat Mater?
[ 27. March 2012, 20:20: Message edited by: venbede ]
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
:
A Vigil as late as 1130pm does seem uncommon in the UK - 8pm/830pm/9pm or thereabouts is more usual.
Some of us are trotting off over the river to another parish for their Vigil at 630pm on Holy Saturday - a tad early in the evening, perhaps, but it's the usual time for their monthly Sunday High Mass, as well as their monthly Sunday Evensong, so maybe it's a time their people are used to.
Re Matins, Litany and Ante-Communion - I suspect this is a bit too much BCP in one go even for the most zealous devotees. We have Matins and Litany on Sunday mornings in Lent, before Mass - I officiated last Sunday, and became rather tired of all the references to miserable sinners.....
Ian J.
Posted by Perkin (# 16928) on
:
Maria Consolata also includes giving out blessed flowers, I think.
There is also, of course, the Via Matris, but I've never actually taken part in that.
As I said on another thread I think there is something for having a quiet Good Friday devotion of some kind 'at the tomb'
Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on
:
Wonder what the Lutherans are up to. Martin L?
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
Palm Sunday/Sunday of the Passion:
9am as usual...Blessing of Palms etc. outside; Procession into church to All Glory, Laud, and Honor; Readings include Passion according to St. Mark (spoken, short version). In other words, the same old Roman & Anglican sort of thing.
Maundy Thursday
7pm...Liturgy as the RCs and Anglicans would expect with footwashing, but with two notable exceptions.
1) Extended confessional rite. At the beginning of the liturgy, we say our prayer of confession like normal, then receive the "group" absolution like normal. However, we then proceed forward for individual absolutions with laying on of hands. This is not local practice; it is part of our book liturgy, and has been so since the 1970s.
2) After the post-communion collect, we don't do anything with humeral veils or transporting the holy sacrament to an altar of repose. Instead, we do a simple stripping of the altar, ambo, and sanctuary. The sacrament is removed from the altar, but it is simply taken to the sacristy. While this occurs, we have the option of reciting Psalm 22 or Psalm 88. This year, the lector is going to lead us (from the pews) in Psalm 88. All depart in silence, with neither blessing nor dismissal.
Good Friday:
7pm...The pastor has his own home-cooked service. I have a copy of it somewhere, but haven't really looked at it in great detail. It is some sort of tenebrae service (not the traditional office with nocturns and all that, but rather the Lutheran use of the word, which basically means that the lights grow dimmer and candles on the candelabra are snuffed as you move through a home-written service. I believe it is based on the Seven Last Words, a favorite for Lutheran pastors who graduated seminary a while back.) In any event, the Passion according to St. John will not be read in its entirety, and I doubt the appointed First and Second readings will be read. Psalm 22 is mixed in there somewhere. There will be no procession of the cross, and definitely no reception of the reserved sacrament. All will depart in silence, though, and no blessing will be given. Every Lutheran (including myself) seems to have his/her own preferences for Good Friday services, and no two of us seem to want the same thing.
Holy Saturday:
...tumbleweeds roll through Ecclesiantics...
Easter Sunday:
9am as usual...service with lots of special music and slightly larger attendance than usual. It is the usual order.
n.b. We don't stop using the organ anywhere, and we have no bells.
[ 28. March 2012, 02:06: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Holy Saturday:
...tumbleweeds roll through Ecclesiantics...
[/QB]
Presumably because we will all be at our churches rehearsing, decorating, setting up or in general Making It Look Like Easter. Or writing sermons. Or trying to catch some shut-eye between the day of preparation and Vigil.
We're having services at 8 am (Proper Liturgy for Holy Saturday, like it says in the BCP) and 8:30 pm (The Great Vigil) on Saturday. Extra long day for me because nobody else wants to coordinate the reception after Vigil. Fortunately I have no official duties on Sunday. (I might end up setting up the champagne.)
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
What is Maria Desolata, as a matter of interest? I remember Holy Cross Cromer Street, King's Cross advertising it in the past (with Maria Consolata on Easter Sunday).
I take it Maria Consolata is crowning our Lady's statue and singing the Regina Caeli. What is Maria Desolata? The Way of the Cross singing the Stabat Mater?
It's a it like the stations of the cross only backwards. Consider a near death experience, when one's life goes before one in reverse order.
I have an order of service for it if anyone wants one.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Holy Saturday:
...tumbleweeds roll through Ecclesiantics...
Presumably because we will all be at our churches rehearsing, decorating, setting up or in general Making It Look Like Easter. Or writing sermons. Or trying to catch some shut-eye between the day of preparation and Vigil.
We're having services at 8 am (Proper Liturgy for Holy Saturday, like it says in the BCP) and 8:30 pm (The Great Vigil) on Saturday. Extra long day for me because nobody else wants to coordinate the reception after Vigil. Fortunately I have no official duties on Sunday. (I might end up setting up the champagne.) [/QB]
No Great Vigil at my church, unfortunately. It does give me a chance to visit.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
:
Whether Maria Consolata or whatever, there seems to me to be something to be said for a positive (IYSWIM) form of service for Easter Day evening or soon thereafter........
......we intend to have a form of Evening Prayer and Eucharistic Devotions on Low Sunday i.e. the Sunday after Easter, which I shall devise and conduct (Father will have been married on the day before, and will therefore be away...... ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
).......so any suggestions from Eccles denizens will be welcome! At the moment, I have in mind BCP Evening Prayer with some nice Easter hymns, followed by a time of silence before the MBSotBaBoOLJC and some suitable Eastertide thanksgivings......
Ian J.
Posted by Robin (# 71) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Whether Maria Consolata or whatever, there seems to me to be something to be said for a positive (IYSWIM) form of service for Easter Day evening or soon thereafter........
For the last few years, we've had Solemn Evensong and Benediction at 3:00pm on Easter Sunday. Evensong is not a major choral production; just a couple of hymns, and plainsong settings for the psalm and canticles. It's quite well attended, and people seem to feel that it brings a satisfying close to the events of Holy Week and Easter.
Robin
Posted by Mary EW G (# 17015) on
:
I think that by washing feet, Jesus meant to demonstrate a way of life, doing whatever needed to be done for other people, rather than inaugurate LONG LINE pf pseudo-humility MT services
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
Mary,
I tend to agree with you. We do not do the foot washing thing here, as it makes the Maundy Thursday Mass just a little too unwieldy. On the whole I would rather have people try to imitate Christ's humility all year long than fixate on a symbolic gesture on Maundy Thursday.
PD
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
:
I can't say I would be emotionally and spiritually devastated if the Foot-Washing were to be omitted from our Maundy Thursday Mass, but........
.......our Priest-in-Charge tells me that he finds it a very moving and meaningful part of the service for him personally, in that it reminds him that he is, in a very real sense, our servant.
Sometimes, bits of liturgy are only relevant to some of the faithful, and not necessarily to all.
Ian J.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
:
By the way, we have just had delivered our new festal High Mass set of vestments (kindly paid for by one of our super-duper Churchwardens), and we intend to use it on Easter Sunday, and on the Saturday after Easter (for our parish priest's Wedding Mass).
Chasuble, dalmatic, tunicle, stole, diaconal stole, maniples, burse and veil, all for under Ł300! White damask, with gold-edged red orphreys etc., they are absolutely gorgeous. If anyone would like to know their provenance (not eBay, this time), please feel free to PM me.
Ian J.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
Maundy Thursday
7pm...Liturgy as the RCs and Anglicans would expect with footwashing, but with two notable exceptions.
1) Extended confessional rite. At the beginning of the liturgy, we say our prayer of confession like normal, then receive the "group" absolution like normal. However, we then proceed forward for individual absolutions with laying on of hands. This is not local practice; it is part of our book liturgy, and has been so since the 1970s.
You know, I checked on this, not because I didn't believe you, but because in all the years I've been in the ELCA or affiliated in any way, shape, or form, I've only ever witnessed a "home cooked" Maundy Thursday service (as ours will be again this year). I was very pleased to see the order of worship of which you speak right there, plain as day, in ELW. Yay! This pastor-wannabe has taken note for future reference.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
You know, I checked on this, not because I didn't believe you, but because in all the years I've been in the ELCA or affiliated in any way, shape, or form, I've only ever witnessed a "home cooked" Maundy Thursday service (as ours will be again this year).
[Lutheran Acronym Translation followeth]
LBW did contain Proper Liturgies for Lent and Holy Week, but they were contained in only the Altar Book and the Minister's Desk Edition. Furthermore, they were organized in Roman Sacramentary style, meaning that the Proper Liturgies appeared within the propers for the church year for that day (so, sandwiched somewhere between the collects for Transfiguration and Easter Sunday). I have found that pastors usually read the Prayer of the Day/Collect out of the worship bulletin, and leave the altar book turned to the proper preface. In other words, these proper liturgies were largely overlooked, and almost nobody in the pews knew of their existence.
The ELW people intentionally wanted these good ancient liturgies to catch on, and wisely realized that they needed to be accessible to the common pewfolk in the hymnals (albeit in a pared-down outline manner). The Altar Book and Leader's Desk Edition (altar book miniaturized...I suggest you buy a copy, if you are on seminary track) do contain the full texts needed (such as the collects after the prophecies). One really annoying thing is that they include the text, but not the chant, for the Easter Proclamation. This was also true with LBW. Ah well, I can't complain too much. We did receive our [Lutheranized] Litany of the Saints in the Service Music section of the hymnal.
I am starting to see more of an acceptance of the "book liturgy" for Lent and Holy Week, but it will take another generation of pastors for this to catch on. For so long, nothing was provided. In Lutheranism, whenever the service is not Sunday morning, people always seem to think that it has to be something cooked up from scratch. I like the Catholics and Piskies for this...they have no problem doing the regular order of Mass whenever (except Good Friday, of course!)
The proper liturgies of Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday, and Maundy Thursday are not tricky to get a church to do, as long as one can explain how easy they are in a coherent/simple manner. Good Friday is the tricky one to convince the church to change. Your best hope is a young pastor. The good news is that the good people at the ELCA Worship office have offered some Three Days workshops and training. They seem committed to seeing this catch on.
[Lutheran Acronym Translator]
- LBW: Lutheran Book of Worship "The Green Book". Developed simultaneously with the Episcopal Church's BCP79, containing similar texts.
- ELW: Evangelical Lutheran Worship "The Cranberry Book". Released in 2006, replaces LBW. Not totally gender neutral language, but one can tell that it is heading that way.
[ 30. March 2012, 23:16: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I can't say I would be emotionally and spiritually devastated if the Foot-Washing were to be omitted from our Maundy Thursday Mass, but........
.......our Priest-in-Charge tells me that he finds it a very moving and meaningful part of the service for him personally, in that it reminds him that he is, in a very real sense, our servant.
Sometimes, bits of liturgy are only relevant to some of the faithful, and not necessarily to all.
Ian J.
With me it is the stripping and the washing of the altar with water and vinegar at the end of the Mass that has the emotional impact. Being the stereotypical over-emotional Celt it is a good job that I do not have anything to say after that ceremony until I have had sufficient time to recover myself.
PD
Posted by FatherRobLyons (# 14622) on
:
Our schedule for Holy Week:
Palm Sunday:
7:30 AM Morning Prayer
10:00 AM Blessing of Palms and Procession, followed by Holy Communion
7:00 PM Evening Prayer
Maundy Thursday:
6:30 PM Holy Communion with Footwashing
10:00 PM Evening Prayer
Good Friday:
6:00 AM Morning Prayer with Litany
6:30 PM Office of the Passion of our Lord (No Communion)
9:00 PM Evening Prayer
Easter Eve:
6:00 AM Morning Prayer
6:00 PM Evening Prayer
Easter Sunday:
5:00 AM Easter Vigil with Covenant Renewal (no Communion)
8:00 AM Morning Prayer
10:00 AM Holy Communion
In addition, I will have a simple Passiontide Communion at the Hospital where I serve as Chaplain on Thursday at Noon, Stations of the Cross on Friday at 11 AM, & Office of the Passion at 1:30 PM.
In parish use, after the post-communion on Thursday, no Glorias, Doxologies, invitatory, conclusion, bendictions, etc... until the Easter Communion.
Vestments: Thursday through Saturday, Passiontide Red; Vigil on, White. Next year I hope to have black and gold sets to use.
Rob+
Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
By the way, we have just had delivered our new festal High Mass set of vestments (kindly paid for by one of our super-duper Churchwardens), and we intend to use it on Easter Sunday, and on the Saturday after Easter (for our parish priest's Wedding Mass).
Chasuble, dalmatic, tunicle, stole, diaconal stole, maniples, burse and veil, all for under Ł300! White damask, with gold-edged red orphreys etc., they are absolutely gorgeous. If anyone would like to know their provenance (not eBay, this time), please feel free to PM me.
Ian J.
And of course next time you have an episcopal visitation you will make sure that he wears tunicle,dalmatic and chasuble to demonstrate that (a) he enjoys the fullness of orders (b) he is able to cope with heatwaves
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
Well, I got an advance peek at tomorrow's service bulletin, and once again the interim has nixed our tradtional singing during the Palm Procession. For many years it has been our custom to sing the Taizé "Hosanna" during our brief walk through the courtyard, down the sidewalk, and up the front steps to the church. Now we will be doing this in silence for the second year in a row.
For me it pretty much destroys the significance of the procession, or at the very least, my enjoyment of it. Am I crazy? I assumed all these years that, if you had a Palm Procession, you sang. How about the rest of you?
[eta: This is aside from the processional hymn in the church building, which is of course "All Glory, Laud and Honor." That's the same as always, Deo gratias.]
[ 01. April 2012, 00:48: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on
:
We had our usual ecumenical procession with the local Uniting and Roman Catholic Churches, around the block, this year starting at ours. The Rector and the RC priest wore red; the Uniting Church minister wore a cassock with blue scarf. The hymn for the outdoor procession was All Glory Laud and Honour, with Ride on, Ride on as the choir processed into the church. Palms arched down the aisle, palm crosses to carry in the procession and a general sprinkling of water at the start.
The reading from Mark of course, with the Rector as Narrator, the Assistant as Christ and a server as the other voices. Near to tears as we knelt when the Gospel reached the crucifixion.
Posted by seasick (# 48) on
:
I can't imagine a Palm Sunday procession without singing. We share the service with a local Anglican parish. The blessing of palms takes place in the Methodist Church and then will sing various hymns as we process through the streets. We begin All glory, laud and honour as we get to the Anglican church.
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
We used to have Stations of the Cross, and also the Easter Vigil on the Saturday. But that was the old vicar.
Now, we still have Compline and address by a visiting speaker on the Mon, Tue, Wed; Maundy Thursday Eucharist with foot-washing; three hours at the cross (address and meditation, followed by the Last Hour choral Eucharist) and Easter Day services, so not a huge amount of change. The main addition is a donkey leading the Palm Sunday procession.
Stations is now back - for the middle hour of Good Friday 3 hour service and also for the children's service. If the vicar can remember which cupboard he put them in after the last time they were used! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
Permit me to vent that I cannot stand the tune THE KING'S MAJESTY. We had scheduled WINCHESTER NEW, but due to musician error, we had the wrong tune, which has never in the past worked for our congregation, and failed miserably today. Nobody sang, because they had the "wrong" (although correctly planned) music in the bulletin.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Sometimes I think the only people who actually use our bulletin are the ones in the pews. The leaders seem to never look at it, although it would solve them much confusion about what to do next.
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
I assume you mean the tune for "Ride On, Ride On in Majesty" which we didn't sing this morning, and a good thing that is because -- I just checked -- the Hymnal 1982 has The King's Majesty as the only appointed tune for that hymn! When I was a wee lass growing up with the 1940 Hymnal, we sang that hymn to Winchester New, and I can't imagine it with anything else.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
This is my 50th Holy Week (started churchgoing at age 10) and I always tell people, 'It never rains on Palm Sunday.' (It has only rained twice as far as I can remember.) So we were able to start outdoors and our new-ish vicar led the singing by playing his flute.
We have an extremely heavy processional cross that gets its annual outing today. I was worried that I would make my sciatica worse if I carried it but was pleased to get back in church without doing my back in.
Then - disaster - I put it back in its place, near the pulpit, but forgot to fit it properly and it started to fall, banging my heard in the process, so I now have a headache as well as sciatica. I now have a perfect excuse to forget things.
Luckily, it didn't fall on to any in the choir - it could literally kill someone as it is so heavy.
Someone suggested that Jesus would come back and haunt me - adding, 'Oh, I suppose he already does.'
I'll try not to drop the paschal candle later this week.
Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on
:
I think Leo this may be a case for some transfer of responsibility from the older generation to the younger.......
Hope that sciatica of yours is better - I suffer from it myself at times and it can be extremely painful
Posted by BenjaminS (# 13224) on
:
We only have the Hymnal 1982, but we sang Ride On, Ride On in Majesty to Winchester New anyway. The bulletin simply had the number for Ride On, Ride On, with a note "sung to Winchester New" next to it. The congregation sang it with much gusto! ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
Posted by sonata3 (# 13653) on
:
We had the Passion read by priest (words of Jesus), congregation, and 2 readers. At three points within the Passion, we stopped and sang the Trisagion ("Holy God, holy and mighty...").
Did any other congregations insert sung texts into an otherwise-read Passion? If so, what?
Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by BenjaminS:
We only have the Hymnal 1982, but we sang Ride On, Ride On in Majesty to Winchester New anyway. The bulletin simply had the number for Ride On, Ride On, with a note "sung to Winchester New" next to it. The congregation sang it with much gusto!
I almost always use All glory laud and honour,anyway, but I didn't know that about Ride On. Can't imagine anyone would not want to sing it to Winchester New. Really? Somebody changed the tune? Lord, have mercy!
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
quote:
Originally posted by BenjaminS:
We only have the Hymnal 1982, but we sang Ride On, Ride On in Majesty to Winchester New anyway. The bulletin simply had the number for Ride On, Ride On, with a note "sung to Winchester New" next to it. The congregation sang it with much gusto!
I almost always use All glory laud and honour,anyway, but I didn't know that about Ride On. Can't imagine anyone would not want to sing it to Winchester New. Really? Somebody changed the tune? Lord, have mercy!
Well, sort of. The Hymnal 1982 and the current ELCA hymnal (and its predecessor) provide only THE KING'S MAJESTY, which can only work if one has a top-notch organist and most likely a choir of paid professionals. Then, interspersed somewhere within a long Palm procession, I could see it working.
For the 99% of us who do not have such talent, WINCHESTER NEW is the way to go. Unfortunately for me, the organist goofed, and we got cheated. Why I persist in subjecting myself to such antics every Holy Week, I have no idea. We also got about 1/6 of the Passion Gospel.
Ah well, I was waffling about whether to commemorate the Holy Triduum at my home church, or whether to visit. Now, my mind is made up, and I can have fun the next couple of days figuring out where to visit.
[ 01. April 2012, 20:30: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on
:
This may not be the right place to ask - maybe I should ask on random questions - but I'm curious about veiling practices. What do you veil, with what, and when? (And any other details you feel like sharing.)
What we veil seems to vary from year to year. It seems we have to re-think it every year, and by "we" I mean the vergers. We have SO many objects of statuary, art, and icons, as well as crosses and crucifixes, it's hard to find a "rule" for what to veil and what not to veil.
We veil in unbleached linen for Holy Week, and switch to black after the Maundy Thursday service (after the church has closed so we can turn the lights back on! - one year we had people keeping vigil at the Altar of Repose, so we couldn't turn on the lights, and let me tell you trying to place a slippery veil on a larger-than-life crucifix while standing on a ladder in the dark is no fun at all).
I would love to know what sorts of "rules" there are for what to veil (i.e., why). My understanding is that it goes back to some practice of denying ourselves the consolations of the images and crosses; but when you can't veil murals and stained glass images, what makes sense to veil? Especially in a cathedral where there are, for lack of a better word, museum pieces (bust of our first bishop; non-religious or abstract works of art, things to do with the cathedral's and the local history, etc.).
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
There is no statuary in our church. We veiled the brass processional cross, as we do not have any other processional cross to use. We used dark red cloth (matching our paraments), twine, and placed a few palm fronds in, too.
It had an effect. People actually noticed and talked about the processional cross, which typically does not happen. I daresay veiling it drew more attention to it than usual.
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
churchgeek, I'm going to copy your question and MartinL's reply over to the Random Questions thread. There's some other discussion about veiling there and hopefully it will be easier to read if we keep it all together.
Mamacita, Eccles Host
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
Palm Sunday is always a bit of a blowout in our place.
Blessing of Palms:
After 'the Palm Gospel' Pss 24 and 47 are said/sung during the distribution
Then 'All glory, laud, and honour' is sung for the procession.
After the post-procession collect the congregation sings 'Ride on, ride on in Majesty' as the celebrant and deacon change from red to violet, and the altar is censed.
The hymns for the Mass
"Were you there?" before the Passion
"There is a Green Hill far away" (to Horsley) for the Offertory
And "O sacred head, sore wounded" for the closing hymn.
The Palm Sunday High Mass runs the Easter Vigil a close-ish second for length, but it is much more beloved by the congregation. I suspect because they have been doing it longer.
PD
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on
:
Instead of the Passion reading, the children did a short play. More details on my blog (see sig. for link).
It made an already rather long service a more manageable length, and more interesting for the children present.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by The Royal Spaniel:
I think Leo this may be a case for some transfer of responsibility from the older generation to the younger.......
Hope that sciatica of yours is better - I suffer from it myself at times and it can be extremely painful
Thank you. Agree about transfer - but - the students are away for the Easter vac. so it's mainly a congregation of people older then me out of term time.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
After 'the Palm Gospel' Pss 24 and 47 are said/sung during the distribution
I gather, from your previous posts, that you follow the 'old rite'.
We save a lot of time by giving people their palm crosses with the service sheet - they hold them up for the blessing.
Then straight on to the Palm Gospel and procession .
[ 02. April 2012, 12:50: Message edited by: leo ]
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
:
That's what we do.
We were conscious that it might be a long service, but it lasted an hour and twenty minutes (we usually take 60-65 minutes on a 'normal' Sunday, so not too bad).
About 70 in church (our ASA is 30-35), and the last time we had confirmations (a couple of years ago) there were 40 present, so we were well-pleased with the turnout. Not all visitors/newcomers were with the confirmation candidates, either!
Ian J.
Posted by jugular (# 4174) on
:
At St Treechange's, our services are/were:
PALM SUNDAY
8am Palm Procession and Sung Eucharist
10am Palm Procession, Passion Story (Godly Play-style) and Communion
MONDAY AND TUESDAY
7.30pm Said Eucharist
WEDNESDAY
9.15am Eucharist (a weekly occurrence)
4pm-6pm Reconciliation
MAUNDY THURSDAY
7.30pm Eucharist with Foot-washing and Stripping of the Altar
9pm-9am Vigil before the Blessed Sacrament
GOOD FRIDAY
9am Proclamation of the Cross and Mass of the Presanctified (we don't call it that - we call it 'Sharing in the Body of Christ')
SATURDAY
9am Church Cleaning, brass polishing, flower-arranging
7pm THE GREAT VIGIL OF EASTER (New Fire, Paschal Candle, Vigil Readings, Gloria with Bells, Renewal of Baptismal Vows, Eucharist and Champagne Supper)
EASTER DAY
8am Said Eucharist (because we're short an organist)
10am Eucharist with childrens' story and hymns
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
After 'the Palm Gospel' Pss 24 and 47 are said/sung during the distribution
I gather, from your previous posts, that you follow the 'old rite'.
We save a lot of time by giving people their palm crosses with the service sheet - they hold them up for the blessing.
Then straight on to the Palm Gospel and procession .
To my mind that kind of buggers up the blessing as there is no easy target for the holy water and incense. Also the length of the Palm Sunday liturgy is not something the congregation complains about, so it makes it an easy decision to leave it be.
We save time here by not having five prayers to bless the palms and the Epistle of the old, old rite. It also helps that we start in the hall, so the table - actually what will be the altar of repose later in the week - is in there and we do not have to change the high altar from red to violet mid-stream.
PD
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
I was amazed to check my watch towards the end of the mass yesterday (at which I was visiting preacher) to find we had taken only just over the hour. The only omissions were penitential rite and creed (allowed by the rubrics) and the second reading (also, by C of E rules, not strictly required); the sermon was probably on the short side. But there was a full Palm liturgy with procession, and the reading of the Passion (by children, which might have been a risky enterprise but went very well). Clearly a church which doesn't mess about. In the past I have assumed 90 minutes as the norm for a full Palm Sunday liturgy, even without sermon.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
We did ours in 67 mins - procession, all 3 readings, sermon - probably because mark's passion is comparatively short. Different story next year - luke goes on and on and on.
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
:
I managed to be late for the Palm Sunday procession as the Basilica I was visiting had sensibly decided to move the main Mass of the day half an hour earlier. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
To my mind that kind of buggers up the blessing as there is no easy target for the holy water and incense.
PD
I've always seen the priest walk around the church hall sprinkling everbody's upheld palm and then censing them.
No problem, I'd have thought.
Posted by Vertis (# 16279) on
:
A typical Trinity service: blessing of palm crosses at the entrance chapel followed by the Gospel. Then a walk through the neighbourhood with a donkey and non-stop singing (although pausing at points for a verse or two of All Glory, Laud and Honour.
Then back into church to lay the palm crosses at the foot of the nave altar, and a full Eucharist including the Passion Narrative. Start at 10:30, finish at 12:20, but then we normally stretch to at least 90 minutes so we must have raced the donkey!
The kids loved it. (And so did I.)
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
To my mind that kind of buggers up the blessing as there is no easy target for the holy water and incense.
PD
I've always seen the priest walk around the church hall sprinkling everbody's upheld palm and then censing them.
No problem, I'd have thought.
Our Holy Week Booklet's rubrics seem to contemplate the palms being blessed at the altar or at a table set up in the hall and then distributed during the recitation of the psalm(s). It works OK provided the servers do not 'fanny about' - which is about a 50-50 chance in this parish. Once we are in the church things ten to go pretty much as usual, and we run about 65 minutes - a few minutes longer than usual due to the Passion.
PD
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Irony: we used to have a city centre ecumenical procession for Good Friday, through what a few years ago were deserted streets. As the streets have got busier, the ecumenical enthusiasm has faded, so just when it was beginning to have a point it fizzled out.
There will be a walk of witness with cross and Salvation Army band, here in Newcastle upon Tyne.#
This will be followed by an open air service at Grey's Monument (a bit like a mini Trafalgar Square. I reckon there will be in excess of 200 people there.
There used to be an ecumenical procession until 1998 but then Churches Together stopped it under pressure from the new catholic priest who said all Christians should be in church on Good Friday!
My response to that would have been (had I been around) that Jesus was crucified outside in public and not on an altar between two candles!
The saddest thing about the cancellation of the aforementioned procession of witness was that one of the 'big-wigs' in Churches together was Sea of Faith and he started a discussion (from a position of unbelief) that saw CT divided over the meaning of 'atonement'. They felt that because they couldn't agree on it, that they would therefore not witness to it.
It ceased for 10 years, with The Salvation Army continuing its witness all by itself, and then I revived the ecumenical nature of it by asking some ministers I was in contact with, to join us. It is not very successful - but Churches Together is conspicuous in its absence and lack of interest.
I want to ask, where else on Good Friday will you see 200+ Pentecostals, independent evangelicals, charimsatic anglicans, methodists, Salvationists, and a Dominican Friar in full robes(!) gathered together?
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on
:
aaaargh!!! I said 'It is not very successful...'
I meant to write, 'It is very successful...'
Posted by seasick (# 48) on
:
Why does being in church have to be mutually exclusive with something open air? Tomorrow, I've a morning service in a church in one part of the city followed by an open air ecumenical act of witness on the green and in the afternoon, I'm preaching in an Anglican church and afterwards there'll be ecumenical (Anglican/Methodist/Catholic) open air stations of the cross through the local area. I do think we lose something if we're not able to do a service in church but I don't see why that stops things in the open air.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
And here was me thinking you lot only work on Sundays.
Posted by seasick (# 48) on
:
And I didn't mention even tenebrae in the evening!
Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
And here was me thinking you lot only work on Sundays.
Hehe!! ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
It wouldn't surprise me if Fr.Seasick has already instituted a daily Mass in his place.....
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
I want to ask, where else on Good Friday will you see 200+ Pentecostals, independent evangelicals, charimsatic anglicans, methodists, Salvationists, and a Dominican Friar in full robes(!) gathered together?
In our combined service in Brockley?
OK, apart perhaps from the robes. But there will be Catholic priests there. Well there have been for the last few years.
It started years ago as a specifically evangelical service put on mainly by Baptists and a few Anglicans I think because the ministers were part of some sort of evangelical prayer circle or something, then some people associated with Ichthus joined in, then a local RC parish. So its on the ecumenical side of ecumenical these days.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
And I didn't mention even tenebrae in the evening!
Went to tenebrae at All Saints, Margaret Street last night. If there is a more beautiful sight in London than the inside of that church at night with all the lights turned off, I don't know what it is.
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
I think I know what you mean, ken, but it does sound like a rather backhanded compliment!
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
Participated in my shack's Maundy Thursday Seder Meal/Holy Communion/Stripping of the Altar service tonight.
Interesting.
I miss Catholicism.
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
Angloid, thank you for that laugh. I needed it. Because my Triduum is off to a terrible start.
The Maundy Thursday liturgy went well: Agapé meal/Liturgy of the Word in the parish hall, then into the nave for footwashing and communion. All very nice. "The Servant Song" was a new one for us this year and it was well-received. Then....
Our Altar of Repose is set up in a side chapel just to the left of the sanctuary. Following the stripping of the altar, people move into the chapel to begin the Watch. I had decided that I would wait 30 min or so before going in for the Watch, to let the crowd in the chapel clear out a bit, so I puttered around in my office, got some stuff ready for the Good Friday kiddo program, and then went into the chapel, very ready for some quiet time with Jesus.
Here's what I found. The Altar of Repose was all nicely set up as usual. But lights were on and the Interim Rector and the altar guild were still bustling around and having a loud and non-essential conversation. I give them credit for at least apologizing to me and leaving, but there was one other little problem. Our new choir director had decided to have a choir rehearsal following the service. The choir room is directly underneath the chapel. So there I was, trying with all my might to get in a Gethsemane state of mind, with all these alleluias wafting up through the floorboards.
I feel like an essential part of my spiritual practice has been taken away from me. I am well and truly pissed off, but I take some comfort in knowing that my fellow Ecclesians will understand my disappointment. Thank you for listening. Here endeth the rant.
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
<snip> Interesting. <snip>
Damning with faint praise, MrMusicMan? As you can see from the post above, I feel your pain.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
Participated in my shack's Maundy Thursday Seder Meal/Holy Communion/Stripping of the Altar service tonight.
Interesting.
I miss Catholicism.
Oh, no you don't! Don't go there. We need seminarians who know of and have an appreciation for a normal Holy Triduum.
I have resigned myself to the fact that, if I want a traditional Three Days, then it is simplest for me to visit an Episcopal place. For tonight, I drove into the city and visited one of its famous Anglo-Catholic locales. My home church was fairly by-the-book tonight, but I felt it simplest to visit (and was delighted with not one but two thuribles). I make it a point to request a by-the-book Holy Triduum, but I don't make a stink out of it when people agree, and then persist in home-cooking their own service with nary a glance at the book nor the knowledge to plan without it. Instead, I simply withdraw. It keeps the peace.
[ 06. April 2012, 03:26: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
<snip> Interesting. <snip>
Damning with faint praise, MrMusicMan? As you can see from the post above, I feel your pain.
Lol...for what it's worth, from a seasoned Maundy Thursday visitor, I highly suggest you always e-mail ahead and find out whether some sort of seder hijinx are going on. I certainly did so myself this year, sending the email on Sunday. Perhaps you should do so with your own church, too.
[ 06. April 2012, 03:31: Message edited by: Martin L ]
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
A triple post for Martin L..my equivalent of visiting different churches tonight?
Mamacita, I feel your pain. Look at the bright side: it will all be different next year!
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
We did OK tonight after an acute attack of the 'Screw-up Fairy' in the first five minutes including the head falling off my crozier - presumably a dry joint as the solder had given up. Any further mess-ups were down to Mr.'I Don't Read Bulletins' being the MC tonight. He managed to miss the antiphon on Ps.22, forgot to read it responsively, and then stood nearly in the doorway to the sacristy whilst we were trying to strip the altar.
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
In preparation for tomorrow night's liturgy an email was sent pointing out the pitfalls in GFL. Unfortunately I have the same MC tomorrow night, so it could be interesting.
After that it is the annual nervous breakdown over the Vigil, but at least I have the other MC.
PD
[ 06. April 2012, 05:35: Message edited by: PD ]
Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on
:
Well, if you left our Good Friday service not feeling dreadful, you'd be an incurable optimist.
I'm not sure that was quite the desired effect. In fact I hope it was an accident. It just seemed to happen.
If Easter Sunday is as depressing I shall look for signs of the Resurrection elsewhere.
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on
:
We had about 55 in the congregation for the 7.45 last night. Rather than footwashing, difficult to arrange with that number I expect, we wash hands. All participate, washing and drying the hands of the next in, then saying: As you have been served, go now and serve"; response "I will serve". The choir sand Here in Christ we gather, lot of Christ our calling from the NEH.
For some strange reason, I experienced increasing joy in the Great Thanksgiving and consecration, and this increased during the recital of Psalm 22. I left the service feeing quite elated. Not all what I was expecting and I had never before had the experience at the Maundy Thursday service. Hymns were NEH 72, TIS 650 (Brother, sister let me serve you) , TIS 609 (Where cross the crowded ways off life) and NEH 78 - a favourite of ours. The choir sang the Byrd Ave Verum Corpus as a communion motet.
A congregation of around 275 this morning, all singing being a cappella after a tone from the organ. Hymns: NEH 90; NEH 76; NEH 95; NEH 86; NEH 83; and NEH 408. The choir sang O Lord, who dares to smite Thee and Ah Holy Jesus (both by Bach)after the sermon and before the Great Intercession. Unlike last night, both Madame and I were very subdued - so much so that we did not stay for morning tea. Ave Verum Corpus
[ 06. April 2012, 08:18: Message edited by: Gee D ]
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
The Altar of Repose was all nicely set up as usual. But lights were on and the Interim Rector and the altar guild were still bustling around and having a loud and non-essential conversation.
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Interim Rector eh? With liturgical and spiritual cloth ears. WTF do they teach them in seminaries these days?
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
:
So far, so good at our place.
32 for Taize Prayer on Tuesday evening, with about 10 of ours and the rest from 3 other neighbouring parishes.
17 for Maundy Thursday (50% up on last year! - though I do wish we could radically increase the numbers attending this particular service). Gloria with bells on, foot-washing accompanied by Taize Ubi caritas, Procession to the Altar of Repose (minimalist candles and flowers this year), Watch until 1045pm and then Compline. The altars were stripped in complete silence during the first 10-15 minutes of the Watch.
28 at the Liturgy today (again, up from last year). Psalm 22, Passion Gospel according to John (read by 3 people with all joining in as appropriate), Solemn Intercessions, Veneration of the Cross and Communion from the Reserved Sacrament. All very simple and moving, with an inspiring homily from Father.
We haven't had a separate Vigil for some years, but include the Blessing + Lighting of the Paschal Candle (at the beginning of Mass on Sunday) and the Renewal of Baptismal Vows (after the homily).
Ian J.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
We did OK tonight after an acute attack of the 'Screw-up Fairy' in the first five minutes including the head falling off my crozier - presumably a dry joint as the solder had given up. Any further mess-ups were down to Mr.'I Don't Read Bulletins' being the MC tonight. He managed to miss the antiphon on Ps.22, forgot to read it responsively, and then stood nearly in the doorway to the sacristy whilst we were trying to strip the altar.
In preparation for tomorrow night's liturgy an email was sent pointing out the pitfalls in GFL. Unfortunately I have the same MC tomorrow night, so it could be interesting.
After that it is the annual nervous breakdown over the Vigil, but at least I have the other MC.
PD
It could have been worse...the crucifer at the very high A-C place I visited last night tripped face first--this just as I was thinking "If I were MWing this, I'd have little to say that distracted me!" The cross went flying, but its base got caught on a very large floor-standing candle holder, which smacked into the altar and fell on the floor. From my vantage point, I could see he was falling (very slowly), but nobody near the chancel seemed to notice until it was too late.
As for Mr. Doesn't Read The Bulletin, his wife is the organist at my church, and played the wrong closing hymn last Sunday...just played four verses straight through. The entire actual hymn, four part music and all was printed IN the bulletin.
Good Friday at the cathedral today, but it doesn't start for three hours or so.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
The Altar of Repose was all nicely set up as usual. But lights were on and the Interim Rector and the altar guild were still bustling around and having a loud and non-essential conversation.
Interim Rector eh? With liturgical and spiritual cloth ears. WTF do they teach them in seminaries these days?
@Angloid
As far as I can tell tree-hugging and jam making.
@MartinL
No, Mrs I-don't-read-the Bulletin does read the bulletin, so when her spouse drifts off we are treated to a good deal of coughing and 'tick-tack' down the nave to try and get him back on course. My hearing is good, and the acoustics of the church are kind to preachers with weak voices so I can here every bloody word! When they are on form I am looking for Bishop Odo's aspergilium (basically a mace with holy facilities at the non-business end) to quieten them both off.
The trouble is, we actually do rehearse this stuff.
PD
[ 06. April 2012, 15:04: Message edited by: PD ]
Posted by Nunc Dimittis (# 848) on
:
Maundy Thursday was a shocker for me: Morning Prayer, nursing home Easter service (had to do the whole of Holy Week and Easter in 40 min!), big parishioner funeral including burial, set the church for the Liturgy, and then the Liturgy itself.
I was chuffed that we had 22 people there (including 3 children)... Usually it's just 12 (eerily enough). We kept the Watch until 9:45pm and being utterly exhausted and not having been able to eat all day, I needed to go home.
Today at the Good Friday Liturgy we had 30 - also a remarkable difference on previous years.
In about 7 hrs' time ( ) we will have Morning Prayer, and then spring clean the church before setting it up for Sunday... Home to write a sermon.
The Great Vigil begins at 5:30am with the usual lighting of new Fire, blessing of Paschal Candle, the Exsultet, the long series of readings, Alleluia, and renewal of baptismal vows. We will then go outside to have a bbq breakfast. First Eucharist of Easter begins at the usual time of 8:30am - and will include a welcoming of the Candle, another renewal of vows (for those who weren't at the Vigil), and a very joyful lot of hymns, and offering of the Eucharist. Should be fantabulous!
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
Participated in my shack's Maundy Thursday Seder Meal/Holy Communion/Stripping of the Altar service tonight.
Interesting.
I miss Catholicism.
Oh, no you don't! Don't go there. We need seminarians who know of and have an appreciation for a normal Holy Triduum.
I just wish our pastor would follow the book more closely, and then not cook up these "cutesy" demo-rituals.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
Participated in my shack's Maundy Thursday Seder Meal/Holy Communion/Stripping of the Altar service tonight.
Interesting.
I miss Catholicism.
Oh, no you don't! Don't go there. We need seminarians who know of and have an appreciation for a normal Holy Triduum.
I just wish our pastor would follow the book more closely, and then not cook up these "cutesy" demo-rituals.
Welcome to Lutheranism..."Reinventing the wheel since 1517."
Seriously, we need people who actually know about these things. Most Lutherans honestly don't.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
We'd all be wise to read the writings of Alexander Schmemen and Aiden Kavanaugh.
Posted by St.Silas the carter (# 12867) on
:
Th usual triduum tiredness is setting in about now. But I'm very, very happy with the numbers we've had. We were packed last night and this afternoon. Despite it being a 3 PM service, Good Friday is usually nearly full, but this year was the first year it was packed. Thanks to having 3 priests giving communion at the rail, communion went speedily, and the whole service only took an hour and 45.
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on
:
We made it through Maunday Thursday and Good Friday.
One member of the choir kept asking while we went through the anthems if they were all going to be a cappella. The answer was yes. We ended the last anthem during the stripping of the altar with no organ and that he wasn't going to use the organ in a service until Easter morning.
However, he seemed to have lost his pitch pipe, so we simply started at that ever pitch he wanted us to. Hopefully we were in the right ballpark!
Stations of the Cross were after the Good Friday service, but I didn't stay as I was exhausted.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
Ecumenical Good Friday this afternoon... about 2/3rds full, including a really nice sounding rendition of "What Wondrous Love" by the combined choirs of our church and the Methodist church. The Methodist pastor's sermon was <yawn>, so I naughtily spent it leafing through the music on my iPad, selecting something suitable for Easter Sunday.
Just returned from Tenebrae, about 25 people. I found it very moving and very emotionally powerful. I tried to sit in the loft and pray in the dark following, but our pastor was too eager to reset the Sanctuary for Easter Sunday, so I was disturbed. However, more so when she called up to make sure I was OK than just by the hubbub of resetting.
"Light" preludes were asked of me for both. I realize that ancient tradition eschews such music, but both were needed to help set the scene. Since Good Friday worship is the second act of our Passion Play, I sort of thought of the preludes as "entre'acts."
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
Today the assembled non-multitudes spread themselves out differently to usual.
11am Matins, Litany, and Ante-Communion got a level dozen.
Stations which followed got 18, most of whom stayed on from the 11am service.
7pm Good Friday Liturgy and Communion from the RS got 17. Comparing last year with this we had 6 and 22 last, and 18 and 17 this. We were up, though with them spreading out, it did not feel that way.
PD
Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on
:
I am waiting for the Easter Morning Eucharist to see if there is a note of the Resurrection.
Even a tiny bit. ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
Posted by Wm Dewy (# 16712) on
:
We had a nice Maundy Thursday with a guest preacher and footwashing, and a procession of the Most Blessed Sacrament to the Altar of Repose. After I put up the thurible and got divested, I went to the chapel where the MBS was kept for the watch and was dismayed to find the Sacrament quite alone. I know, I know, Jesus can take care of Himself, and there was no disrespect intended. The first time slot for the watch was not until 8 pm and it was about 7:40. But still I wonder, why did everybody leave?
I found the Good Friday Liturgy terribly disappointing last night. The MBS was brought into the church during the opening procession and placed on the altar. So instead of the bulk of the Good Friday Liturgy taking place in a near empty church, we had the Sacrament with us from the very beginning until the end of Communion. When the Cross was brought in, it was already unveiled. Why do we bother to veil crosses through Passiontide (or indeed, all of Lent) if not to unveil before the Veneration? But the Veneration didn’t much happen either. The wooden Cross was immediately placed on the altar downstage of the Sacrament and the people were invited to “come closer” during s hymn. No touch, no kiss, no genuflection. Why come closer? I can see the cross from here.
I hope for the best tonight at the Vigil.
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Wm Dewy:
I found the Good Friday Liturgy terribly disappointing last night. The MBS was brought into the church during the opening procession and placed on the altar. So instead of the bulk of the Good Friday Liturgy taking place in a near empty church, we had the Sacrament with us from the very beginning until the end of Communion.
It's things like this that confirm me in my liturgical paranoia. It's one thing to do things in a different way from the norm, or tweak the rubrics: it's quite another to do things that totally derail the movement of the liturgy.
I worked with a colleague once (different church, fortunately) who began Good Friday with the high altar dolled up as the chapel of repose, ablaze with lights and decked with flowers. Then at the end of the liturgy he (and he alone) consumed the Sacrament and the service ended abruptly in darkness and confusion. Which is the opposite of the way it's supposed to be: the starkness and desolation giving way to the glory of Christ on the cross and a peaceful, even joyful, resolution.
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
:
And that's the sort of High Church shenanigans that used to make me think that if you are going to have any ritual at all, it is better broadly in line with an established authority (which meant Rome, as far as Holy Week went) rather than made up for yourself. Following established rubrics can be the very opposite of being a prima donna.
I went to tatty little church with less than twenty people who sat down for most of the service, as different from a great shrine as you can imagine.
Nonetheless, we had the catholic works and I can't remember shacking so much with suppressed weeping when kissing the cross for years.
(I wish the Solemn Prayers came before the Veneration, but I'm so grateful otherwise.)
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
Our Good Friday Liturgy is fairly traditional, but I have to say there is a bit of a mish-masj element.
The service begings in silence with the ministers processing in. Those in major orders then 'kiss the carpet' before going to the sedilia. I start out in alb and black stole. A cope would be nice, but we do not have one yet; though we have one on order from Poland.
The Reader goes straight into Hosea 6 and then reads the Tract before the celebrant reads the Collect.
Hebrews 10,
Ps 140
John 18 and 19
At the end of which the bookstand is placed on the altar and the solemn collects are read
Let us pray - Let bow the knee - pause - Arise for all nine, and perifidious is long gone.
After that we go out and fetch the cross. Three stations - back, middle of nave - just outside the rail as 'Behold the wood of the cross...' is repeated three times. The clergy made an individual veneration. Three genuflects as you walk up, then kneel and kiss and return to your place. The reproaches then follow and finally the congregational corporate veneration is made.
The crucifix goes on the wall, then we spread the fair white linen cloth, grab the procesional candlesticks and head for the Altar of repose.
Change from black to violet in the chapel, then return with the MBS.
Lord's Prayer
General Confession
Absolution
Ecce, Agnus Dei
Communion
Place MBS in the Tabernacle, and return to altar for washing of hands and final collect.
Everyone out in silence.
We started doing it this way about five years ago. Before that we did Stations at Noon, and then Litany and Ante-Communion ending with the solemn collects and the reproaches, between no Communion 2pm and 3pm. As an afternoon function this was beginning to struggle for attendance as most business are now open of Good Friday afternoon. We moved to a attern of a morning service for the older folks and an evening service for the younger and were "rewarded" with a 30% increase in attendance the first year.
The morning service (11am) is straight 1928 BCP and is fairly well attended considering, and consists of Morning Prayer, Litany, Ante-Communion and sermon. This was roughly what we did in my home arish 30 years ago until someone (read "worship committee") thought it would be a good idea to change it.
PD
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
Th usual triduum tiredness is setting in about now.
Holy Week equals "Eat, Sleep, Poop, Pray, and repeat."
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
I went dutifully to last night's Good Friday Liturgy; I had wanted to visit another parish simply to be away from some of the drama at my own, but found myself on the rota to be a chalice-bearer, so there I was. Already in a hypersensitive mood, I was ready to pounce on any more liturgical changes imposed by the interim. Having found the new organist practicing Good Friday hymns earlier in the week, I knew the interim was scuttling our long-held practice of having the organ silent after Maundy Thursday. And I was ready to be annoyed.
Funny thing happened. I didn't hate the organ music. It wasn't showy but simply there to support the congregational singing and chanting, and that was a good thing because our choir -- already small in number -- has sort of gone on strike. I noticed harmonies in Herzliebster Jesu that I had never heard before. And, we needed extra musical support because attendance has plummeted during the interregnum. Then something awkward and lovely happened.
Because attendance at Maundy Thursday and Good Friday was so bad, we ended up with a ton of leftover reserved sacrament. So the interim, who is actually a decent liturgist despite my griping, quietly invited anyone in the small assembly (15 or so, less than half of what we had last year) to adjourn to the side chapel to help with ablutions. Several of us clustered in the semi-darkness and quietly assisted in consuming about ten hosts apiece along with a sizeable slug of wine. It was a little informal yet respectful, and strangely intimate. It was also humbling for me, who had arrived feeling quite bitchy and ended feeling penitent.
[Fixed German spelling because it was schrecklich.]
[ 07. April 2012, 19:28: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Nonetheless, we had the catholic works and I can't remember shacking so much with suppressed weeping when kissing the cross for years.
Typo for shaking.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
Mamacita, my ELCA shack has no tradition of silencing the organ after Maundy Thursday. A lot of the time, I will use the piano for much of Lent and for Good Friday to try to give a more subdued ambiance, although this Lent, I stayed upstairs at the organ throughout.
Last night, I elected to use the organ for Tenebrae, despite only having around 20 in attendance. I really tried to subdue the registration, limiting myself to foundation stops and flutes, and I reduced the volume. It was harder for our 20 to sing with the organ subdued. When we got to O Sacred Head , I opened up the organ towards full registration and volume and they sang much more strongly. For the rest of the service, I tried to keep it as close to full as I could, whilst trying to maintain a sense of subdued. They sang much better.
I'm sort of at a loss now... but it was really fun to explore the registration options available to me. (and no postlude, despite the wanton eyes of some who really wished I'd do one)
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
I had never encountered the silencing of the organ until I started going to Piskie places for the Triduum. Even then, the high Anglo-Catholic place I visited on Maundy Thursday continued to use the organ to accompany hymns throughout the service, including the chant during the procession of the Sacrament. I know from TV that the organ is used even at St. Peter's Basilica to accompany singing at this time.
In general, Lutherans tend to want organ music loud enough to drown out their own voices...singing is intensely muted at my church when we have piano instead of organ.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
A question about the bells at the Gloria...
I look forward to the ringing of the bells on Maundy Thursday and at the Vigil, but how long should they ring? The other night, the altar bells were rung vigorously during the entire Gloria, stopping only when the choir sang "Amen." The Gloria was long enough that we were seated during the singing of it. It seemed a bit much.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
MartinL, based on my experiences in ecumenical pastoral music, I'd agree with you on the topic of Lutherans wanting the organ to drown them out. No wonder no one complains when I power it up to full registration and full volume at all times. The only one bothered by it is our pastor's husband, and that's only when it rattles the first window on the right.
Sunday shall be a blast!
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
I had never encountered the silencing of the organ until I started going to Piskie places for the Triduum. Even then, the high Anglo-Catholic place I visited on Maundy Thursday continued to use the organ to accompany hymns throughout the service, including the chant during the procession of the Sacrament.
[sigh] I know... we're just a bit tired of being made to feel like we're doing everything wrong.
Posted by St.Silas the carter (# 12867) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
A question about the bells at the Gloria...
I look forward to the ringing of the bells on Maundy Thursday and at the Vigil, but how long should they ring? The other night, the altar bells were rung vigorously during the entire Gloria, stopping only when the choir sang "Amen." The Gloria was long enough that we were seated during the singing of it. It seemed a bit much.
We used Proulx's A Community Mass on Maundy Thursday. The bells took a break during the middle part when the choir sings 'lord Jesus Christ, only begotten Son', etc. in four parts, and started again towards the end during "For you alone are the holy one, etc."
(And this is a tangent, but it's very, very hard to use revisions of old mass settings with the new texts.Nobody can pick up on the changes. [/tangent])
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
I know... we're just a bit tired of being made to feel like we're doing everything wrong.
The sun'll come out, tomorrow! In this case, it's a big shame because you aren't doing anything wrong!
[Do you remember when our interims started early last year, on the same Sunday? I can't believe we are still going through this! We had better end up with top-notch full-timers when this is over and done!]
This is just me being the obstinate man trying to solve problems, but have you considered putting your parish liturgical customary down in writing before you hire a full-timer? If it were to obtain the rubber-stamp of the vestry, anybody hired could be told that this is the way that it is, take it or leave it.
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
quote:
We had better end up with top-notch full-timers when this is over and done!]
Your keyboard to God's eyes, Martin L. I should start a separate thread about this since I'm in danger of hijacking the Holy Week discussions with my woes. I can't decide whether to take it to Purg or Hell.
Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled festival-fest. Apologies, everyone.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
I had never encountered the silencing of the organ until I started going to Piskie places for the Triduum. Even then, the high Anglo-Catholic place I visited on Maundy Thursday continued to use the organ to accompany hymns throughout the service, including the chant during the procession of the Sacrament.
[sigh] I know... we're just a bit tired of being made to feel like we're doing everything wrong.
If I make it through seminary to my first congregation, I will be calling on you to remind me of this experience so that I don't destroy my first congregation during my first call.
That said, I expect MartinL to remind me of what needs to be changed in the ELCA.
Between the two of you, I might get something accomplished.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
I had never encountered the silencing of the organ until I started going to Piskie places for the Triduum. Even then, the high Anglo-Catholic place I visited on Maundy Thursday continued to use the organ to accompany hymns throughout the service, including the chant during the procession of the Sacrament. I know from TV that the organ is used even at St. Peter's Basilica to accompany singing at this time.
In general, Lutherans tend to want organ music loud enough to drown out their own voices...singing is intensely muted at my church when we have piano instead of organ.
Here we have always used the organ to support the singing, but no voluntaries from Passion Sunday until after the Easter Vigil. My congregation is a bit thin on strong singers though if they really know something they'll have at it with a will.
The custom with the sanctus bell here is to give it a 10 sec. burst after the intonation for the Gloria in Excelsis on MT and then it is not heard again until the Sanctus at the Easter Vigil.
PD
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
I had never encountered the silencing of the organ until I started going to Piskie places for the Triduum. Even then, the high Anglo-Catholic place I visited on Maundy Thursday continued to use the organ to accompany hymns throughout the service, including the chant during the procession of the Sacrament.
[sigh] I know... we're just a bit tired of being made to feel like we're doing everything wrong.
I think that if it feels right, it's not wrong. I just think that the silence of the start of the Good Friday service gets jarred by the sudden blaring of the organ (Maybe those places just didn't have a good organists, but they are thin on the ground).
Obviously YMMV....
Posted by sonata3 (# 13653) on
:
Back from an Easter Vigil I (ELCA) attended with my Roman Catholic spouse at a Dominican motherhouse. This was my first time to attend a service in a religious community; and was surprised at the prominent role the Mother Abbess played - said the blessing of the new fire with the celebrant, read the Gospel, and preached. The whole congregation chanted the blessing over the water.
Other than that, I liked the fact that the entire congregation was invited to process to the font (next to the altar for this service - everything in the space is moveable, and paschal candle, altar, font were all in the center of the worship space, surrounded on all sides by chairs for musicians and congregation), and cross themselves with the just-blessed water after renewing their baptismal vows.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
:
Easter Sunday morning Family Mass at our place went well - 41 adults, 12 under-16s and 3 home communions as soon after Mass as I could make it.....
We entered in silence, Father blessed and censed our stark and minimalist Easter 'Garden' (three empty crosses - with a half life-size skull adjacent - and a stony, empty cave-tomb....), and we then went to the back of the church. The Paschal Candle was blessed and lit, and carried through the church with the versicle and response The Light of Christ - Thanks be to God! sung en route . The Candle was placed in its stand in the sanctuary and censed, and then we launched into the first hymn The Day of Resurrection sung to the tune Ellacombe.
After the homily, Father and MC went to the font for the Renewal of Baptismal Vows, after which all were liberally sprinkled with Holy Water.
Offertory Hymn - Love's redeeming work is done
Communion Motet (sung by a small group of singers brought together for this service) - The Lord is my shepherd to the setting by Howard Goodall..
Communion Hymn - This joyful Eastertide
Final Hymn - Jesus Christ is risen today with Joy to thee, O Queen of Heaven sung as a fourth verse!
Chocolate after Mass, of course.....
Christus resurrexit!
Ian J.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
The EasterViil went well last night but the attendance was miserably small - only 13 - which was markedly down on last year. The folks who came were the new/high church constituency. 13 is a poor showing even for this parish which is notorious adverse to "extra" services. I am now trying to work out what to do to increase attendance. BTW, I would consider 20 to be good going on a Saturday night in this parish. However our vigil is not that long - with sung Exultet four prophecies and the readings at Mass we run about 95 mins.
The suggestions so far are:
1. Omit the Eucharist
2. Use shorter version of the Exultet
3. Say the Exultet
4. Move it to dawn Easter Day (and BTW we do not do Daylight Savings here)
5. Give it up.
Any thoughts?
PD
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
The EasterViil went well last night but the attendance was miserably small...
[snip]
Any thoughts?
PD
Yes...keep the faith! Things like this catch on with consistency.
My super-favorite Great Vigil destination had approximately 20 in attendance last night (altar party included), and lasted precisely 1 hour and 7 minutes. The Proclamation of Easter was spoken, not chanted. Four prophecies were read, and the related Psalms/canticle were all spoken as usual for the church. The organ was played once again for the Gloria, and thereafter three Easter hymns were sung--at the offertory, after communion, and at the closing.
They have been "growing" their Vigil congregation for two decades, now. It is slow growth, but it is there. People like the pomp and majesty of Easter morning, so the three hymns chosen for the Vigil are extremely popular Easter hymns at the church.
Other possibilities:
-Insist that baptisms/confirmations/new member receptions take place at the vigil (to slightly inflate the crowd with a "captive" audience)
-Give up the sermon to shorten the service (Martin keeps trying with this one...)
-Just be satisfied that anybody showed up at all, and rest assured that you were united in fellowship with millions of Christians who gathered in the darkness around the same large candles to hear the same prophecies and the same Gospel.
Posted by St.Silas the carter (# 12867) on
:
I'm pleasantly surprised that last night and tonight were very full. With all nine readings,four psalms and a canticle, baptisms and confirmations, the whole thing lasted 3 hours and 40 minutes. It didn't help that one of the readers here who generally messes up was put on the rota for last night and read half of the first reading before he finally realized that he was being given multiple signs from people that he was reading the wrong reading.
The only issue today was some traffic back up from people who aren't aware that we use the altar rail for communion, and don't seem to know how to use it.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
I'm pleasantly surprised that last night and tonight were very full.
You've suggested in the past that the neighborhood of the church is questionable. Has the neighborhood become more favorable? (To put it another way, to what do you attribute the upswing?)
Posted by St.Silas the carter (# 12867) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by St.Silas the carter:
I'm pleasantly surprised that last night and tonight were very full.
You've suggested in the past that the neighborhood of the church is questionable. Has the neighborhood become more favorable? (To put it another way, to what do you attribute the upswing?)
I really don't know. Other than the city possibly granting the neighborhood historic satus, nothing has really changed. The only things different now than say six months ago are that there's a tridentine high mass every Sunday, and we have a new organist and better music program.
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on
:
Survived Easter morning...
Easter vigil (or sunrise service if you prefer) at 6:00 was well attended (for us). Usually we have about 15-25 people. We had 50 some today.
I slept through the early service, but the main service was pleasantly full.
PD - We moved ours from Saturday night, which was not well attended, to Sunday morning. It is supposed to be timed that we say Christ is Risen at dawn. But it wasn't a quick fix. We have had to give it time. The good thing is that our congregation has many ex-fundamentalists in it along with a good portion of ex-RCs. The two groups have eventually come together to make our service work at dawn.
My opinion is that you simply need to give it time, or be resigned to what you have. If they are really against "extra" services, I doubt any tweaking to the service itself will change attendance much, and moving it to sunrise probably won't help either.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
The EasterViil went well last night but the attendance was miserably small...
[snip]
Any thoughts?
PD
Yes...keep the faith! Things like this catch on with consistency.
My super-favorite Great Vigil destination had approximately 20 in attendance last night (altar party included), and lasted precisely 1 hour and 7 minutes. The Proclamation of Easter was spoken, not chanted. Four prophecies were read, and the related Psalms/canticle were all spoken as usual for the church. The organ was played once again for the Gloria, and thereafter three Easter hymns were sung--at the offertory, after communion, and at the closing.
They have been "growing" their Vigil congregation for two decades, now. It is slow growth, but it is there. People like the pomp and majesty of Easter morning, so the three hymns chosen for the Vigil are extremely popular Easter hymns at the church.
Other possibilities:
-Insist that baptisms/confirmations/new member receptions take place at the vigil (to slightly inflate the crowd with a "captive" audience)
-Give up the sermon to shorten the service (Martin keeps trying with this one...)
-Just be satisfied that anybody showed up at all, and rest assured that you were united in fellowship with millions of Christians who gathered in the darkness around the same large candles to hear the same prophecies and the same Gospel.
The liturgical coffee klatch at church achieved something of a concensus on this one, which surprised me as I usually get nine opinions (from five people.)
It plan seems to be:
1. Retain the Vigil
2. Shorten the service by not singing the Exultet, and by dropping a formal sermon.
3, Reinstate the Litany, which was dropped last year to speed things up a bit.
The other discussion which is ongoing is about Good Friday, specifically about Communion. I grew up in a fairly High parish that ended the GFL with the Veneration of the Cross and the Reproaches. Communion from the Reserved Sacrament seems a little anti-climatic to a lot of folks, so there is some discussion as to whether we should have Communion on Good Friday, and if we do, whether we should have it in one kind, or both. The favoured options are no communion, or communion in both kinds from the Reserved Sacrament. The latter has some logistical problems, but I think would be favoured by most of the folks likely to turn up for the Good Friday Liturgy.
I was surprised by how well supported the old-fashioned BCP service was on Good Friday, and Stations.
PD
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
How many minutes would a said Exsultet save? And why bother, since it's a song of triumph? Miss it out and sing a hymn instead would be preferable IMHO.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
The liturgical coffee klatch at church achieved something of a concensus on this one, which surprised me as I usually get nine opinions (from five people.)
It plan seems to be:
1. Retain the Vigil
2. Shorten the service by not singing the Exultet, and by dropping a formal sermon.
3, Reinstate the Litany, which was dropped last year to speed things up a bit.
So let it be written, so let it be done... [sorry, too much TV!]
quote:
The other discussion which is ongoing is about Good Friday, specifically about Communion. ...communion in both kinds from the Reserved Sacrament. The latter has some logistical problems, but I think would be favoured by most of the folks likely to turn up for the Good Friday Liturgy.
I had never encountered communion in two kinds on Good Friday before in an Anglican place until this very year at the diocesan cathedral. They had reserved in a (I'm probably going to use the wrong word here) glass flagon, which reposed alongside a ciborium of hosts.
quote:
Angloid:
How many minutes would a said Exsultet save? And why bother, since it's a song of triumph? Miss it out and sing a hymn instead would be preferable IMHO.
It saves quite a bit. I prefer it chanted, but only if the person chanting it is capable of doing so well and at a decent clip. Last night, with a spoken Exsultet, it took five minutes from the opening address to the snuffing of the candles before the first prophecy.
quote:
St. Silas the Carter:
I really don't know. Other than the city possibly granting the neighborhood historic satus, nothing has really changed. The only things different now than say six months ago are that there's a tridentine high mass every Sunday, and we have a new organist and better music program.
Well, however it came about, good for you!
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
How many minutes would a said Exsultet save? And why bother, since it's a song of triumph? Miss it out and sing a hymn instead would be preferable IMHO.
As the Exultet is the point in our service in which the candle is blessed it would be a bit difficult to leave it out. I suspect the problem is one of perception rather than actual length. We started the Blessing of the Fire at 7.30pm, reached the end of the Exultet at 7.52pm, of the prophecies at 8.10pm, the renewal of Baptismal vows at 8.17pm, and the Mass at 9.07pm. Personally, I find the reading-psalm-prayer format of the prophecy drags. I suspect a reversion to the 1967 Booklet would be an improvement.
PD
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
Time wise, PD, I'm not seeing the issue with the length of your Vigil. From prelude through Postlude, our Sunday morning Festival worship ran 77 minutes and the only real difference was a longer (and fairly boring) sermon, and more communicants. Oh, and my postlude ran about 8 minutes. 97 for your Vigil seems just fine to me. Then again, I think I've attended or participated in the Vigil about three times, so maybe it's the most boring thing on Earth.
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
97 minutes?!?!?! What is that, a speed record? Even leaving out most of the readings (there were only three!) and having no baptismandi/confirmandi, the Basilica took almost twice that long. Granted, they were singing everything that could be sung and had a fair number of communicants (although the small army of priests handy did speed things along), but still.
Efficiency!
Also, just to make the denizens of this place die of apoplexy (or at least cringe), I should probably mention that, not only did we use Wee Cuppies at the altar rail this Easter morning, but that the vicar, upon running out of hosts on her plate to distribute, reached under the altar, opened the plastic bag of hosts, poured them onto her plate, and carried on her way.
Oh, and there were hand puppets during the children's moment. That one made me cringe.
Posted by St. Punk the Pious (# 683) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Also, just to make the denizens of this place die of apoplexy (or at least cringe), I should probably mention that, not only did we use Wee Cuppies at the altar rail this Easter morning, but that the vicar, upon running out of hosts on her plate to distribute, reached under the altar, opened the plastic bag of hosts, poured them onto her plate, and carried on her way.
Oh, and there were hand puppets during the children's moment. That one made me cringe.
Abominations!
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on
:
Ours started at 6:00 and ended at 7:30. Exultet, four OT readings with songs and prayers, one homily, two baptisms.
I didn't feel rushed…
Posted by FCB (# 1495) on
:
I'm amazed at how quickly people seem to be able to get through their Vigils. Even with no baptisms, ours still took 2 hrs and 20 min.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
Here's hoping that PD's liturgy coffee committee has a member here. This should give them some perspective.
Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on
:
Oh, and my first vigil at a college chapel a few years ago was four hours long, without singing/chanting everything that could be—but that was with ten readings and responses and several baptisms and confirmations.
So yeah, an hour and a half seems really short after one of those.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
In my experience 95 minutes for the Easter Vigil is a carcking pace. However, St Hardup's liturgical style tends to owe a lot to the 'no hanging about' school of thought. In other shacks, I am used to the four prophecy version running a little under two hours and the twelve prophecy version closer to three. However, I prefer not to do the four prophecy version in an evening when I still have the three ringed circus on Sunday morning.
The problem seems to be a combination of it being something
a/ longer than usual
b/ different, and
c/ in the evening
I think the cure will end up being persistence. It will eventually be better attended when we have a generation of church people who regard the Easter Vigil as the done thing, just like the older generation regard the Easter Sunday High Mass and Potluck as the done thing. However, it may well take us another 30 years to get there.
A few years back a friend of mine (sadly no longer with us) cured his Easter Vigil problem by hugging the dinosaur. He stopped doing the 1955 four prophecy version in the evening and went to doing the long version in the morning, and then they all went out to lunch together afterwards to officially close Lent. He said the references to the night felt a bit silly at 10am on a Saturday morning, but other than that it worked rather well.
I sometimes wonder whether those who reformed the liturgy in the 1950s and 60s really thought through how the changes would be implimented in the average parish church. Most of the RC Liturgical Reformers were not nor ever had been parish priests, and there are times where it is pretty obvious that the rather cut-and-dried first revision of Holy Week in 1951/55 had to be reworked to be more flexible to make them practical in the parish context. In some respects the effect has been to exchange one set of bad habits - the old Low Mass culture - for another. I find as an Anglo-catholic we have many of the same problems going on albeit on a smaller, less intense, scale.
PD
Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on
:
We had a very full church for the Paschal Vigil and, even taking things at a gallop (and, like FCB, with no baptisms), it took just under two and a half hours. The only think that irritated was the parish choir (who are poor singers and worse musicians to a man and woman) singing each of the psalms to the very same Gellineau tone.
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
The church to which I was invited had a wonderful Vigil with the largest congregation I have ever seen (enormous building nearly half full). I didn't time it but I'm sure it finished in well under two hours.Plenty of fizz, eggs and fireworks to follow. Easter morning was similarly splendid (woman president, lots of smoke, three baptisms and almost standing room only.)
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
How many minutes would a said Exsultet save? And why bother, since it's a song of triumph? Miss it out and sing a hymn instead would be preferable IMHO.
I can sing the exultet in 4 minutes because I am confident. Trouble is, newly ordained deacons usually only get one go at it so take longer.
I'd feel short-changed if no exultet - it's one of the most ancient chants and it ushers in Ester.
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I'd feel short-changed if no exultet - it's one of the most ancient chants and it ushers in Ester.
So would I. But I would rather some singing (of another appropriate song) at this point rather than listen to it read.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
Just as a postscript.
The best attendance was on Good Friday where we had a total of 35 different people split between the three services. There were a few twicers, so the actual total attendance for the day was 45.
Easter saw the usual 11 at the early service, but the High Mass was comfortably full with 52, which is similar to recent years attendance. There were a few families missing due to travel or illness, but their places were taken by visitors.
PD
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on
:
I do miss the Easter Vigil (although it is rather good to have the whole of Saturday off. And I could always go to the Cathedral, 50 miles away, if I really wanted to attend a Vigil service. I expect they still do the Exsultet.)
Instead, we now have an Easter Sunrise Service, jointly with the neighbouring more evangelical CofE church, on top of the hill overlooking the town. I'm not sure what happens at that service, as I've never got up for a 5am start. I find it much easier to go to a late-night Saturday service rather than an early morning Sunday one.
The Easter Candle appears, already pinned, though, for the 9.45 main Eucharist, so it must have been done at some time.
Oh, and if we're playing the number counting game, we had 20-30 each evening in Holy Week, rising to 70-80 on Maundy Thurs and again on Good Fri (including choir), then 380 for the Easter Day main Eucharist.
Posted by FatherRobLyons (# 14622) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
The suggestions so far are:
1. Omit the Eucharist
2. Use shorter version of the Exultet
3. Say the Exultet
4. Move it to dawn Easter Day (and BTW we do not do Daylight Savings here)
5. Give it up.
Any thoughts?
PD
Here was our order for the Vigil this year:
Rough-hewn cross with single candle buring before it for light, no song. I was the solo cleric. Entered, prostrated, went to customary place for the office.
Reading from Exodus 13-15
Song of Moses (plainchant)
Prayer (spoken)
Reading from Ezekiel 36
Psalm 42 (plainchant)
Prayer (spoken)
Reading from Ezekiel 37
Psalm 143 (plainchant)
Prayer (Spoken)
Reading from Daniel 3
Song of the Three Young Men (Anglican chant)
Prayer (spoken)
Reading from John's Resurrection
Exsultet (proper sung setting, lit paschal candle and people's candles)
Prayer for the Vigil (chant)
John Chrysostom's Easter Homily
Christ is Risen with first use of Alleluias.
Conclusion, set up the Altar/Chancel for Morning Prayer, then went to the kitchen to work on the Easter Feast.
We then returned with MP and our Eucharist, at which we did Covenant Renewal.
Our vigil took 1 hour, left ample time for silence, and was one of the neatest Vigils I've attended in years. We are discussing adopting this format for all vigils (we do 4 - Easter, Pentecost, All Saints, Christmas) with Easter getting more readings (3-5 for others, 9 for Easter). We also want to plan more carefully for timing next year... this year it was pitch black when we finished...
Anyway, we chose this format to try because are seriously considering revising our parish ordo to more closely resemble 1662, and we were having a hard time figuring out what to do to avoid repeating anything terribly MP/EP resemblant. We may add hymns next year.
Rob+
[ 09. April 2012, 17:33: Message edited by: FatherRobLyons ]
Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on
:
I must admit 50 miles is a bit on the steep side, Chorister, although from what I know about Exeter Cathedral (? - the main cathedral for cream tealand I'd think) it would have been done very well
I went to a long but impressive vigil service where we also had the first Eucharist of Easter. The fire was lit outside and when it had got going I thought it was as well we do not have a hosepipe ban here.......There were about 20 of us bar the clergy and we all had to process in the church with a candle....The Exultet was nice but it was very long and seemed to go on for ever. Nothing about bees - they had all departed for the planet Melissa Majoria - but this was followed by 4 - rather long IMO - readings. We then had the Gloria before which a cacophony of bells broke out and the organist played one of these modern things probably Messiaen - I hate that man
The sermon was very scholarly - the vicar started off about sacrifice in the OT and I got lost half way through.We then had a procession to the font where the water was used to some effect and I made sure I was out of range!!
We then had the hymn 'At the Lamb's high feast we sing' - must admit that's one of my favourites, and the Eucharist followed as normal according to the Welsh 2004 rite
The church has gone up the candle quite a bit over the last year or so and I must admit I could do without the incense......
The last hymn was 'Jesus lives! thy terrors now'
The setting was Missa de Angelis
The service started at 8.30 - I could hear the church bell go and realised it must be 10.00pm (!)
However refreshments were provided - wine, orange juice and cheese and biscuits and a nice variety of cheeses which I devoured avidly as though I'd just come out of a gulag!! Well I was b***** hungry
Interesting to hear of other people's services......
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
I think the cure will end up being persistence. It will eventually be better attended when we have a generation of church people who regard the Easter Vigil as the done thing, just like the older generation regard the Easter Sunday High Mass and Potluck as the done thing. However, it may well take us another 30 years to get there.
I think this is about right. We had our first Paschal Vigil ever at St Peninsula's Saturday, and did pretty much the whole (American) Missal service except for the blessing of the font. We don't have an actual font in the place, and I thought that putting a bowl on a table would just look silly, so I cut it. It took just under 2 hours, with 4 prophecies (#s 1, 4, 8, & 11). Our attendance was about 20, and most of them were effusive about what a lovely service it was.
I wanted also to register my $0.02 about a Vigil sans Eucharist : Don't do it. It removes the whole point. Better just to do the whole thing the next morning, as silly as you may feel going on about "this is the night" at 10 AM.
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by The Royal Spaniel:
I must admit I could do without the incense......
Do without the incense? At Easter? Is outrage!
Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
I think this is about right. We had our first Paschal Vigil ever at St Peninsula's Saturday, and did pretty much the whole (American) Missal service except for the blessing of the font. We don't have an actual font in the place, and I thought that putting a bowl on a table would just look silly, so I cut it. It took just under 2 hours, with 4 prophecies (#s 1, 4, 8, & 11). Our attendance was about 20, and most of them were effusive about what a lovely service it was.
I wanted also to register my $0.02 about a Vigil sans Eucharist : Don't do it. It removes the whole point. Better just to do the whole thing the next morning, as silly as you may feel going on about "this is the night" at 10 AM.
I would urge the bowl be used next year. The blessing is mostly about the blessing of baptismal water, and only slightly about blessing the actual font. The 1955 revised Holy Week rites took this into account of this and envisions water being blessed at the front of the church and brought to the font at the rear while the Sicut Cervus was sung. We bless the water in the large holy water urn that we keep at the back of the church, then place a small amount in a bowl and carry it to the font at the time.
Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I can sing the exultet in 4 minutes because I am confident.
Only if it's been thoroughly abridged, surely. I sing it both confidently and at a spritely pace. My youngest son timed me this year and it took 8 minutes and 21 seconds.
Posted by Hart (# 4991) on
:
We went just over three hours. All the readings, six baptisms and another five receptions into full communion. Church was full, but not packed, which means we had about a quarter of our average weekend attendance.
[ 09. April 2012, 19:59: Message edited by: Hart ]
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
Two hours at our place, and we spent another hour eating omelets and drinking champagne and trying to figure out what was different, since last year went 3 hours.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
Were you nipping at the champagne beforehand last year, by any chance?
Posted by Carys (# 78) on
:
We only Vigil readings plainchant psalms, prayers, lighting of the new fire, Exsultet (sung), readings, renewal of baptismal vows and blessing of the EAster Garden. No first Mass which felt weird. Can't remember how long it took, but it was probably about an hour given when I got home having been sorting stuff.
Mention was made upthread of reserving in two kinds for Good Friday. My experience this year says that it's a bad idea! At least it is if you massively over consecrate and 3 people end up consuming several chalice worths after the service. I spent most of the afternoon sleeping it off after a very giggly phase.
Carys
Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on
:
Heavens Carys, you'll have Hus rolling in his grave!
Tut,tut!
Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on
:
One of my work colleagues has just told me that he attended the Good Friday Liturgy of the Lord's Passion at Thomastown in Ireland this year and that in a church with nearly 500 people present and with none of the liturgy omitted, the whole thing was over in just under 40 minutes.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
The Easter Candle appears, already pinned, though, for the 9.45 main Eucharist, so it must have been done at some time.
Not necessarily. I know of a church that simply puts a candle, with the grains of incense, in the candle-stick without any ceremony.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I can sing the exultet in 4 minutes because I am confident.
Only if it's been thoroughly abridged, surely. I sing it both confidently and at a spritely pace. My youngest son timed me this year and it took 8 minutes and 21 seconds.
No - I have done the whole lot, bees and all, in 4 mins. ome time back, during a vacancy, the priest running that liturgy wanted to keep the service short and I bet him I could do it at such a speed and timed it.
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
One of my work colleagues has just told me that he attended the Good Friday Liturgy of the Lord's Passion at Thomastown in Ireland this year and that in a church with nearly 500 people present and with none of the liturgy omitted, the whole thing was over in just under 40 minutes.
How do you lot manage it? I know Anglicans tend to love long hymns and perhaps more prolix texts, but even so...
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
It must be genetic. I have some Irish Catholic ancestry and can keepthe liturgy moving right along. After all, I am the guy with the 97 minutes Easter Vigil which includes the Eucharist.
PD
Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on
:
I'm sure PD is right: it's an Irish thing. By "you lot", Angloid, I assume you mean Papists but such brevity is neither widespread amongst papists - saving the Irish - nor confined only to papists - see leo's express Exsultet above.
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on
:
No aspersions (or even asperges) on the generality of Catholics intended, Trisagion. But in general IME Catholics, without necessarily compromising reverence or the liturgy, do get on with it. Maybe the Irish genetic thing is widespread. I recall a sung mass at my local RC church, then staffed by Benedictines, which took all of 35 minutes including three readings, at least three hymns and a - not noticeably brief - homily. And the priest had a pukka Ampleforth accent; not a trace of blarney.
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on
:
Communion in both kinds on Good Friday at our place these days too.
We used to depart in chaos on Good Friday, now we do it on Maundy Thursday and on Good Friday depart in the usual orderly manner.
It's easy to get comfortable with a particular tradition and you only begin to ask questions about it when it changes.
Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on
:
I didn't think you were casting aspersions.
I suspect that the reason for papists in general getting things done at a lick is a deep seated side-effect of ex opere operato: what matters is doing the rite not the dignity or decorum with which it is done. Of course the 'gathering song' and 'deep and meaningful symbolism' crowd try hard to stop this but it's too deep in papist DNA for them to stand much of a chance.
A senior Ordinariate priest said to me today that the most striking thing about being a Catholic was just how fast the procession to and from the altar was. I heard a lovely joke to illustrate this a couple of weeks back. The local Catholic priest was chatting with his Anglo-Catholic neighbour just after Easter. The A-C proudly told him that for the Easter Vigil at St Mary's they had done everything, all the prophecies, everything and still it lasted only just over three hours. Father replied that at Our Lady's they'd left out everything they could and it still went on for ninety minutes.
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on
:
quote:
A selection of chronotic obssession upthread:
35 minutes...97 minutes...8 minutes and 21 seconds [sic and for shame!]...4 minutes
I swear next year I'm going to procure a pair of burly deacons with a metal detector to wand the clergy—every single one of you—and confiscate and destroy every single watch, chronograph, iWhatEver, and every timepiece of every description.
On this day above every day, it's kairos you benighted sods, not chronos.
Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on
:
quote:
I swear next year I'm going to procure a pair of burly deacons with a metal detector to wand the clergy—every single one of you—and confiscate and destroy every single watch, chronograph, iWhatEver, and every timepiece of every description.
On this day above every day, it's kairos you benighted sods, not chronos.
Ahem, that depends on the church. As I discovered first hand this year, one can only sit down for so many hours of airy Latin melodies and mumbled readings even when there's incense.
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on
:
And that means especially you Kirill and your Breguet.
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
We only Vigil readings plainchant psalms, prayers, lighting of the new fire, Exsultet (sung), readings, renewal of baptismal vows and blessing of the EAster Garden. No first Mass which felt weird. Can't remember how long it took, but it was probably about an hour given when I got home having been sorting stuff.
Mention was made upthread of reserving in two kinds for Good Friday. My experience this year says that it's a bad idea! At least it is if you massively over consecrate and 3 people end up consuming several chalice worths after the service. I spent most of the afternoon sleeping it off after a very giggly phase.
Carys
Agreed. PD, I think once a year your congregation can appreciate the doctrine of concomitance.
Posted by Michael Astley (# 5638) on
:
We started our Holy Week last Saturday with the Resurrection of Lazarus combined with the feast of the Annunciation. It was a simple Liturgy in a borrowed room of a church, but was lovely.
Then, on Sunday, we had our first Palm Sunday procession ever. (We have never been in a position to do it before). It wasn't done perfectly but, my word! the people sang. They belted out the troparion, almost as a battle-hymn.
Eastern Orthodox services seldom see the use of the processional Cross, (for instance, it is only properly carried during the Byzantine Divine Liturgy as part of the ceremonial of the patriarchal Liturgy - although its use every Sunday is one of those things of which some ex-Anglican convert communities seem to have difficulty letting go), so seeing it used in an outdoor procession really brings home the festal nature of the celebration. The banner of our patron saint was carried, as well as the icon of the feast, flanked by fans.
We have a fair few services still to come. I'll not recount them all here but some highlights to which I'm looking forward are the Midnight Office on Holy Saturday night, with the Holy Saturday Canon and removal of the burial shroud of the Saviour, as well as the Paschal Canon of St John Damascene from Easter Matins. The two hymns that I am eagerly awaiting are the the beautiful ikos during the paschal canon and the festal zadostoinik (the hymn to the Mother of God during the Anaphora).
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on
:
quote:
Zach82 mumbles something about:
interminable airy fairy Latin ditties
Ya can fix that problem with a hourglass at the rehearsal, willya? No need for the clergy to be obsessively riveted to sweeping second-hands during the liturgy!
As for your falling-asleep toches, get up and take a walk. Imitate the Orthodox: Go outside and have a fag. There are no door locks on the pews.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
A selection of chronotic obssession upthread:
35 minutes...97 minutes...8 minutes and 21 seconds [sic and for shame!]...4 minutes
I swear next year I'm going to procure a pair of burly deacons with a metal detector to wand the clergy—every single one of you—and confiscate and destroy every single watch, chronograph, iWhatEver, and every timepiece of every description.
On this day above every day, it's kairos you benighted sods, not chronos.
Hey, I need my iWhatEver. It's got all the music on it.
Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on
:
quote:
Ya can fix that problem with a hourglass at the rehearsal, willya? No need for the clergy to be obsessively riveted to sweeping second-hands during the liturgy!
Will it redeem me in your eyes if I tell you that I dropped my watch and broke it when I was putting it back on after serving at the altar on Easter morning?
Posted by Michael Astley (# 5638) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
A selection of chronotic obssession upthread:
35 minutes...97 minutes...8 minutes and 21 seconds [sic and for shame!]...4 minutes
I swear next year I'm going to procure a pair of burly deacons with a metal detector to wand the clergy—every single one of you—and confiscate and destroy every single watch, chronograph, iWhatEver, and every timepiece of every description.
On this day above every day, it's kairos you benighted sods, not chronos.
Hey, I need my iWhatEver. It's got all the music on it.
Indeed!
Printed music gets misplaced and printers fail. A portable electronic device and 3G internet have joined forces to save the day on more than one Sunday morning at my parish.
Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on
:
I don't want to derail... however...
Last fall, following an evaluation, my principal challenged me to incorporate technology in my band classroom in the form of a projection system.
Doing some research, I discovered that one of the assistant conductors of the New York Phil conducted a Mozart Symphony from the harpsichord off the iPad 2.
I've been projecting the scores up on the projector, but I've had to use Adobe to do it.
Flash forward to March 16th, I purchased the New iPad and rehearsed my jazz band from it. (I am still working on integrating the iPad into my projection system)
Since, I've downloaded a ton of public domain from IMSLP as well as scanned in all the choir anthems and much of the contents of the organ books I own.
In a device just over an inch thick and about the same weight as one of the aforementioned organ books, I can take all of my band scores, organ pieces, and anthems anywhere I go. With the addition of a blue tooth footpedal, page turning (and turners!) has been eliminated.
At our local solo and ensemble contest, a number of accompanists (and judges) quizzed me about using it for accompaniments. It's so slick and so effective.
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on
:
Staying in the Orthodox groove, it was Tuesday night and we sang Bridegroom Matins for Holy Wednesday at the closest of the half-dozen cathedrals in town.
Figuring prominently were the Bridegroom, the Harlot, and Deceitful Judas.
After consulting Mother Maria's Lenten Triodion before and after, it seems nothing was left out.
For the chronotically obsessed, it clocked in just under two hours.
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on
:
I know our took 1 1/2 hours because I looked up at the clock after service and misread it. Someone corrected me.
And after seeing one of our choir with an ipad with his music on it, and him saying that yes, he could make notes on it to remember things, I'm thinking that technology is the way to go. No more punching holes in music or juggling through books!!
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Communion in both kinds on Good Friday at our place these days too.
Samr here. I am pleased to say that this is the first year that everyone partook. We seem finally to have exorcised the mistaken Anglican thing about 'no HC on this day'.
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on
:
Continuing in the the Orthodox groove. quote:
Today Judas lays aside his outward pretense of love for the poor, and openly displays his greed for money. No longer does he take thought for the needy. He offers now for sale, not the oil of myrrh brought by the sinful woman, but the Myrrh from heaven, and he takes the pieces of silver. He runs to the Jews and says to the transgressors: 'What will ye give me if I deliver Him up to you?' O avarice of the traitor! He reckons the sale profitable, and, agreeing with the wishes of the purchasers, he concludes the transaction. He does not dispute about the price, but sells the Lord like a runaway slave; for it is the custom of thieves to throw away what precious. So the disciple casts that which is holy to the dogs, and the madness of avarice fills him with fury against his own Master. Let us flee from such folly, and cry: O longsuffering Lord, glory to Thee.
Matins of Holy Thursday on Wednesday night focuses mostly on the madness of Iniquitous Iscariot, who drapes the noose of money around his own neck.
The theme-song of the Three Young Men in the Fire continues from last night, "O ye works of the Lord, praise ye the Lord and exalt Him above all for ever." For the Sun and the Earth quake at the betrayal.
The evil Sanhedrin and the involuntary-prophesying Caiaphas get some play. As do Jonah and Moses at the Red Sea.
But, the theme of the Harlot's lips from last night extends to Judas eating the sop at supper and then using the same mouth to betray with a kiss the Bread of Life. Then, He who sets a bridle on the deep, now pours water into a basin. The Master who wraps the heavens in clouds girds himself with a towel and kneels down to wash the feet of His servants.
After a few years absence, I remember that even more than Heermann's Ah Holy Jesus...I crucified thee (to Herzliebster Jesu), this service brings tears of guilt to my eyes.
The thrice-repeated Exapostilarion is sung while the entire congregation prostrate themselves with their foreheads to the ground: quote:
I see Thy bridal chamber adorned, O my Savior, and I have no wedding garment that I may enter there. Make the robe of my soul to shine, O Giver of Light, and save me.
The address after the service focuses on the epithymia (eros!) of Jesus in desiring with great desire to eat this Passover with his friends, and us.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Oh, and my first vigil at a college chapel a few years ago was four hours long, without singing/chanting everything that could be—but that was with ten readings and responses and several baptisms and confirmations.
So yeah, an hour and a half seems really short after one of those.
I'd need a piss halfway through a four hour vigil! My general rules on liturgy are:
1. Follow the text
2. Keep it moving but do not rush
3. Only worry about the clock when you are in the pulpit.
For those anxious about clergy chronographs - I do not wear a watch!
PD
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PD:
For those anxious about clergy chronographs - I do not wear a watch!
I have come to the conclusion that few clergy do...
Posted by Padre Joshua (# 13100) on
:
In my first appointment, I was aware of the fact that I was perhaps a bit too long-winded. I asked one of the trustees, a man who loved to crack jokes, to please install a clock on the rear wall, over the door. Several weeks later, I walked into church to find him just climbing down the step ladder.
"What's up?" I asked.
"I just put a clock on the wall. We're tired of paying you overtime!"
I laugh aloud even now.
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