Thread: What to wear to Interdenominational event Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Incumbent (# 17127) on
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As the local Anglican priest in a small Canadian town, I will be attending an "interdenominational" service in a high school gym celebrating the town’s Sesquicentennial. Our congregation, although historic and a year older than the town, is not large. This event is non-liturgical and non-sacramental, having been organized by evangelical/fundamentalist types who are importing a preacher of that type. There are many clergy of that ilk locally due to various splits over the years-there are probably close to a dozen churches in a not very large town. The RCs will not be officially present, although a retired RC priest is to read a lesson, as am I. Otherwise I will be staying out of things, partly due to my preference and partly due to the fact that Anglicans are usually outsiders at events run by conservative evangelicals. I will have celebrated my own Eucharist in the church earlier that morning. My inclination is just to wear a jacket and tie. The other "pastors" most certainly will. I don't feel that my presence has any "ecclesiastical" weight and I just don't feel that this is the sort of event where I want to assert my clerical status. I’m not sure whether to view this event as an act of worship or an evangelical rally with social overtones. In fact, clericals, let alone a cassock (and surplice) would be very foreign and perhaps a bit suspect to the others. Comments?
Posted by Michael Astley (# 5638) on
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Might something like this be suitable? Of course, you would remove the upper wedge for prayers and readings.
Oh, and welcome aboard.
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
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Just to echo the welcome, Incumbent. I hope you have happy posting - you seemed so pleased to be here that you posted your thread twice so I took the liberty of closing the duplicate...
Michael - don't be naughty!
dj_ordinaire, Eccles host
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on
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Everyone else will be in street dress, and so should you. Clericals are "street dress" for Anglican clergy.
Posted by Episcoterian (# 13185) on
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Well, I'd wear clericals, but then I'm always willing to assert my clerical status (even if I don't have much of one yet). And I am one of those who relish in ecumenical events with the greatest variety of tat possible, from Geneva robe and stole to choir dress + cope. A bonus if you get an Anglican bishop in convocation robes, and the odd Baptist in suit and tie for proper contrast. Double bonus if you get an Orthodox priest.
Since you don't feel like one of them fellow pastors, the collar would be a nice way to assert that without being too much in-thy-face (which wearing robes would be).
Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
Everyone else will be in street dress, and so should you. Clericals are "street dress" for Anglican clergy.
Quite so. The only exception would be if wearing clerical dress would provoke unnecessary controversy/discord.
Moreover, wearing dress that is unusual often results in people wondering why you're wearing unusual dress. They might well come to the conclusion that you don't think this event is a Christian service -- if it was, you'd be wearing Christian dress -- and that I'm sure would be worse than just dressing as you normally would.
Posted by seasick (# 48) on
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I would certainly go in clerical dress to that kind of event - black suit and tonsure shirt.
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on
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Clericals.
I'm a United Church member, so I hope the local minister shows up in a collar and blue shirt. Royal or Light Blue, preferably.
And get down to the Canada Thread in All Saints this instant and introduce yourself! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on
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Clericals. Probably Roman over dog collar, but whatever's cleanest.
Posted by PD (# 12436) on
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1. Street Clericals.
2. Your "Die heretic scum!" tee-shirt.
Just kidding with #2.
PD
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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Welcome aboard, Incumbent. PD is, IMO, the authority on all matters clerico-sartorial!
However, if you really don't feel you could wear a collar- and I'm with those who'd say clericals, assuming that's your normal walking-out dress - what about dark/ sober suit/jacket, white shirt, white (long) tie? Not often seen on Anglican clergy- I've seen it on British United Reformed ministers- but with a respectable clerical pedigree. Or is that a bit of a Laodicean compromise?
[ 22. May 2012, 19:12: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on
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As an Episcopal (Anglican) lay person, I would want to see an Anglican priest at such an event wearing clerical street dress, as others have suggested. I suspect many from other traditions would also expect you to show up in clerical street dress.
If you know the retired RC priest, why not ask him what he plans to wear?
Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on
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It actually has older clergy dress than the dog collar, you go and look at an eighteenth century divine and you will find White shirt and cravat with a dark suit if they are in civies.
Jengie
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
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My tuppence worth, as a lay English Anglican, is to suggest you check with the RC priest.
If he wears clericals and you don't, it could look like you're trying to upstage him (by being more "cool"). Or the other way round: if you wear clericals and he doesn't you could also look like trying to upstage him. A bit of sacramentalist solidarity, perhaps.
Posted by Incumbent (# 17127) on
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The United Church minister, who ordinarily wears a suit and tie in church is going to open the event wearing "period dress". As a denomination derived from Presbyterianism and Methodism, it will be interesting to see what that will mean.
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on
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It means either a period suit or a Geneva Gown with bands. The two churches didn't disagree on sartorial matters.
Bonus if he gets a horse and enters as a Circuit Rider....
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
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This debate calls to mind the story I heard of from an Anglican priest of an interdenominational event to which he had been invited.
He and the local Roman Catholic priest turned up in their dog collars and clearical shirts... while the Methodist sported a 39-buttoned cassock, lace cotta and biretta. As the Catholic remarked to my friend 'I think we've been upstaged!'
(The Methodist in question has, I believe, a Reputation...)
Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on
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I too say wear your collar. But please, if you are not old wear a stylish suit not one that someone in the neighbourhood might have given to the Sally Ann. (Yes, I have "issues" with members of the clergy who don't look cool.) If you are old, well, I'll forgive ya.
Posted by nowsouthwest (# 14600) on
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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
This debate calls to mind the story I heard of from an Anglican priest of an interdenominational event to which he had been invited.
He and the local Roman Catholic priest turned up in their dog collars and clearical shirts... while the Methodist sported a 39-buttoned cassock, lace cotta and biretta. As the Catholic remarked to my friend 'I think we've been upstaged!'
(The Methodist in question has, I believe, a Reputation...)
That wouldn't have been in the south-west of the UK by any chance would it?
Another vote here for clerical shirt.
Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on
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quote:
Originally posted by PD:
1. Street Clericals.
2. Your "Die heretic scum!" tee-shirt.
Just kidding with #2.
PD
I often wear my "Summorum Pontificum: Make Every Mass Extraordinary" t-shirt under my cassock whenever I'm going to assist at liturgies where crassness is likely, or where the celebrant would disapprove...if he knew.
Posted by Episcoterian (# 13185) on
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quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
I too say wear your collar. But please, if you are not old wear a stylish suit not one that someone in the neighbourhood might have given to the Sally Ann. (Yes, I have "issues" with members of the clergy who don't look cool.) If you are old, well, I'll forgive ya.
As long as the fabric is not scruffy, the suit is the adequate size and adjusted to the proper lenght, you'll hear no complaints from me.
Goes without saying but I'll say it anyway. The 1970's are gone. No glaring patterns and shoulder-lenght lapels, please. Some Elders around here aren't aware of that.
Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on
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My church is in a fairly small town. There are two factions in the pan-denominational ministerial association: the fundamentalists and the rest.
The fundamentalists will wear a button-down dress shirt. Some wear a tie, some don't; some wear a jacket, some don't. The jacket certainly depends on the time of year.
The rest (Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian) will wear a clerical collar. The Catholic and Episcopal priest wear a black shirt. The others may or may not wear black, but do tend to wear a collar.
Although the Catholic and Episcopal priest both tend to be cassock-wearers, they do not do so for these occasions.
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on
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I'm sure this would send a subdued and positively ecumenical message to your clerical and lay colleagues.
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on
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quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
I too say wear your collar. But please, if you are not old wear a stylish suit not one that someone in the neighbourhood might have given to the Sally Ann. (Yes, I have "issues" with members of the clergy who don't look cool.) If you are old, well, I'll forgive ya.
Seconded and thirded.
The Anglican rector around here looks like he came from the Sally Ann. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
My minister DID come from the Sally Ann (as a youth) but we've managed to work on him.
Really, quiet, dark suit, very dark blue or black. Is it that hard?
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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Possible tangent, but ISTRC the Revd Eric Blakeborough, a Baptist, showing up to an interdenominational meeting of some kind about 20 years ago wearing what looked very like a frock coat and breeches, rather like an old-style CofE Bishop.
Can any shipmates who might have known him tell me whether this is at all likely? Or am I imagining, or misremembering, this?
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
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quote:
Originally posted by nowsouthwest:
That wouldn't have been in the south-west of the UK by any chance would it?
Very much so!
Posted by nowsouthwest (# 14600) on
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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by nowsouthwest:
That wouldn't have been in the south-west of the UK by any chance would it?
Very much so!
Thought as much, I heard a similar tale about him from my training incumbent!
Posted by Vaticanchic (# 13869) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I'm sure this would send a subdued and positively ecumenical message to your clerical and lay colleagues.
Haha, who the hell is that? You're not supposed to wear those until you're dead.
Posted by Vaticanchic (# 13869) on
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If you're only going because you're a cleric, then wear the gear.
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Incumbent:
The United Church minister, who ordinarily wears a suit and tie in church is going to open the event wearing "period dress". As a denomination derived from Presbyterianism and Methodism, it will be interesting to see what that will mean.
Knowing what I do about United Church ministers, oh dear.
First, wearing the Geneva gown your parents gave you 20 years ago on your ordination (which you haven't worn since) does not count as "period dress". They did not have wool/poly blends 150 years ago....
It will only get worse from there.
Posted by sebby (# 15147) on
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As many have said on here, at the very least a collar. One should not be ashamed of being what one is.
Posted by Fradgan (# 16455) on
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quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
This debate calls to mind the story I heard of from an Anglican priest of an interdenominational event to which he had been invited.
He and the local Roman Catholic priest turned up in their dog collars and clearical shirts... while the Methodist sported a 39-buttoned cassock, lace cotta and biretta. As the Catholic remarked to my friend 'I think we've been upstaged!'
(The Methodist in question has, I believe, a Reputation...)
That wouldn't have been in the south-west of the UK by any chance would it?
Another vote here for clerical shirt.
Just a guess... St. Mary's PZ?
[fixed code]
[ 23. May 2012, 21:32: Message edited by: seasick ]
Posted by Incumbent (# 17127) on
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The plain black clergy shirt with tongue-depresser colar it will be. The cardinal's hat and trappings would make quite a statement, you must admit. Where did that come from? It looks like it's from an opera.
Posted by Incumbent (# 17127) on
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In rely to Preacher's Kid, I once attended a United Church "new ministry" service. No two of the United Church clergy up front were dressed the same way. We had various forms and colours of gowns, albs, stoles, etc., as well as suits and sports jackets. It was like a fashion show for a vestment catalogue. I noticed that no particular attention is paid to the actual colour of the liturgical season or event-the local UC minister here wears a red stole in Eastertide over his suit (no alb, etc.) Once I was asked by a UC person for details on how to buy chasubles, since they wanted to put the choir in them.
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Incumbent:
Once I was asked by a UC person for details on how to buy chasubles, since they wanted to put the choir in them.
Those will be some expensive choir robes...!
Posted by Incumbent (# 17127) on
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They actually wanted to measure mine to mkae a pattern so they could produce their own out of cheap material. There are places like Gaspard's in Canada where you can buy them cheaply in bulk.
Posted by nowsouthwest (# 14600) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Fradgan:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
This debate calls to mind the story I heard of from an Anglican priest of an interdenominational event to which he had been invited.
He and the local Roman Catholic priest turned up in their dog collars and clearical shirts... while the Methodist sported a 39-buttoned cassock, lace cotta and biretta. As the Catholic remarked to my friend 'I think we've been upstaged!'
(The Methodist in question has, I believe, a Reputation...)
That wouldn't have been in the south-west of the UK by any chance would it?
Another vote here for clerical shirt.
Just a guess... St. Mary's PZ?
[fixed code]
I heard about it when in the St. Austell area and assumed it to have been around there - but that was an assumption on my part.
Posted by Avila (# 15541) on
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It is about being your normal.
I lead in clericals and suit or equivalent, and although I acquired a cast off cassock of approximate fit (must get the adjustments done sometime)in case I ever feel the need to blend in with others ecumenically etc so far I have not done so. I am known in various colleagues churches and accepted as I am normally, in fact the local anglicans would give me a funny look of 'who is that?' if I robed up.
I still have the back up cassock though.
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Incumbent:
In rely to Preacher's Kid, I once attended a United Church "new ministry" service. No two of the United Church clergy up front were dressed the same way. We had various forms and colours of gowns, albs, stoles, etc., as well as suits and sports jackets. It was like a fashion show for a vestment catalogue. I noticed that no particular attention is paid to the actual colour of the liturgical season or event-the local UC minister here wears a red stole in Eastertide over his suit (no alb, etc.) Once I was asked by a UC person for details on how to buy chasubles, since they wanted to put the choir in them.
Some of us do care about these things. Then there are the rest of us....
The United Church produces an annual Calendar (actual document you hang on your fridge) in which the dates are printed in the colour appropriate to the liturgical season. Hence I can change the paraments my church has appropriately. People like that.
Metropolitan United Church, Toronto dresses its choir in cassocks and surplices, Anglican-style.
But no, we have no rules about clerical dress, only guidelines. Guidelines that are more often observed in the breach rather than the obedience. And then we get unfortunate things like what you mention.
Anyway, Ma Preacher did own several chasubles and her ordination photo which hangs on my grandmother's wall has her in her alb and a green chasuble. We are a Scoto-Catholic family for a reason. Or Anglo-Methodist. Around here it's the same thing.
Posted by Padre Joshua (# 13100) on
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I'd wear the collar. Shoot, I'm going to a small country church in June, and plan to wear a grey clergy shirt as a matter of course. So when I have to go to the community revival, which is overrun by Pentecostals and Baptists, I won't be out of character to wear my collar.
We Methodists are different. We need to look the part.
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