Ship of Fools: Tried and True Hymns for Special Days

Thread: Tried and True Hymns for Special Days Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by BalddudeCrompond (# 12152) on :

This week I had the dubious pleasure of never having sung,nor played, any of the hymns on Easter Sunday. The organist chose hymns from the 82 Hymnal's Easter section, but not even one of them was familiar! I feel that a major holiday is not a day to veer from the tried and true.....I mean seriously, no "Jesus Christ is Risn' Today"? No "The Strife is O'er?" I truly felt that I had not properly celebrated Easter. I know the music is not the main focus, but poorly chosen selections can totally detract from the worship experience....I realize that picking music for the liturgy is no picnic at times (I did for 7 years straight), but Easter Sunday is pretty much a no-brainer!

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

The former organist at the Episcopal Cathedral here in Denver used to tell a story about the organist who was sick and tired of "Jesus Christ is Risen Today" on Easter, and attempted to not program it. When the collection plate came in, a note had been placed on the top of the money. "We aren't leaving- and neither are you- until we sing 'Jesus Christ is Risen Today!'" The organist didn't call the congregation's bluff.

I am always one to argue that you have to program lots of different hymns throughout the year, or you are going to get stuck doing the same ten or so over and over again. But with the clergy and organist knowing that the church is going to be overflowing with visitors, it seems like there is nothing wrong with programing the old chestnuts.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

We didn't have the old favourites this year, either. Is there a conspiracy? [Paranoid]

Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :

Yes. This has been a pet peeve at our church for years; although not at Easter so much as Christmas. I feel like the Christmas chestnuts are better known to the general population than the Easter ones, so it's even more frustrating to the visitors not to sing them. We do usually manage "O come, all ye faithful" and "Joy to the world", and use "Angels we have heard on high" for the Gloria, but the rest is pretty much a crapshoot.

My biggest cringe is when we do the Huron Carol at the big service on Christmas Eve. OK, the tune is pretty, but the text in the Hymnal 82 sounds like the Indians in a bad western. Anybody visiting for the first time would think they'd wandered into a racist Disney special from the 1950s. (Plus it's really hard not to sing "a wagged wobe of wabbit skin".)

This is why we have the Sunday after Christmas.

Posted by TomOfTarsus (# 3053) on :

I know what you mean; when it comes to Easter and Christmas, the depth of traditional hymns is rich and ought to be enjoyed.

At the church we visited, the worship band leader is a very talented artist who has had at least 1 nation-wide chart-topper amongst the Christian music stations. I like the guy and I like his work; my son used to visit with him and his family back in youth group.

But for Easter morning, when I want to bellow the traditional "Christ the Lord is Risen Today", the band played his "comtemporary worship" arrangement, which was a major let-down - I hardly could follow the tune. Now perhaps my bellowing is selfish or sensual, but to pull in a full chest of air and sing with all my being the great themes of redemption and victory is what I want to do, and I can't do it with wimpy, obscure tunes. The same would go for your hymns-that-you-never-heard-of.

These grand old hymns are around because age to age they resonate so deeply with us. There is nothing to be gained by being either avaunt-garde or needlessly obscure; many "ChrEaster" Christians come at Christmas and Easter and the grand themes and traditional hymns ought to be kept in place in my view.

Blessings,

Tom

(BTW I'm a great fan of modern, or "contemporary" Christian music, from country to hip-hop & rap)

ETA: Cross-posted with 3 others. You hit a nerve!

[ 11. April 2012, 20:05: Message edited by: TomOfTarsus ]

Posted by Custard (# 5402) on :

There is only one hymn that should be compulsory at Easter, and that is Thine Be the Glory. It even has a good tune, thanks to Handel.

See what a morning comes close, but doesn't yet have the longeivity of TBtG.

You'd get complaints round here if you tried something as slow as Christ the Lord is risen today - it's blatantly not a celebratory tune.

Posted by Horseman Bree (# 5290) on :

We had Christ the Lord Is Risen Today for Processional, and Thine Be the Glory for Recessional, with Now the Green Blade Rises during the Offertory giving, which happened to match the theme of the sermon well.

Having a violin to lead our small congo works well for these, and the singing was stronger than might be expected for the older group that was there. Musically, an excellent service.

Come to that, the rest of the service was pretty good, too.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I think this is an Ecclesiantics topic, rather than Purgatory, but I'm checking it out with the Eccles Hosts.

Barnabas62
Purgatory Host

Posted by Clodsley Shovel (# 16662) on :

quote:
You'd get complaints round here if you tried something as slow as Christ the Lord is risen today - it's blatantly not a celebratory tune. [/QB]

Really?!! I think its a magnificent, rousing, hymn made all the more beautiful in the knowledge that during the day millions of others around the world will be singing it.

We didn't sing JCiRT though unfortunately, as everyone knows Easter Sunday morning should start with that and end with Thine be the Glory... [Biased]

We did get 'In Christ Alone' which I hadn't though of as an easter hymn but the third verse is apt I suppose.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

Is "Thine be the Glory" even in Hymnal 1982? I don't know that I have ever sung it.

As to "Jesus Christ is Risen Today" not being celebratory, you apparently have never heard our descanters do their thing. But this might start verging on the old contemporary vs traditional hymn dead horse, so I will just say "personal taste" and be done with it.

Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
You'd get complaints round here if you tried something as slow as Christ the Lord is risen today - it's blatantly not a celebratory tune.

But the first few posts were about Jesus Christ Is Risen Today -- a different hymn, though similar in its structure.

It's really about the tune you want to sing -- round here, JCIRT is sung to Easter Hymn, which is a rousing and majestic piece of work unless played by an organist coping with 10 seconds of resonance.

I know of at least one, and possibly two other tunes that are traditionally sung to JCIRT, and it's certainly possible one of them could be described as not celebratory.

I'm also aware of a couple of tunes traditionally used for CTLIRT -- and though one at least is rousing, the other might not be if played improperly by a cathedral-level organist who thought s/he had a quarter-mile long nave to cope with.

John

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Is "Thine be the Glory" even in Hymnal 1982? I don't know that I have ever sung it.

It must be just about the most common Easter hymn here. Almost compulsory.

quote:

As to "Jesus Christ is Risen Today" not being celebratory...

... it so very much is celebratory and joyous. That's not a matter of taste - those who think it isn't are obviously Wrong [Razz]

And if they want to sing it faster, they can sing it faster!

But then we sang "We shall overcome" during communion, so what do we know? [Smile]

(it was genunely very moving)

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:

It's really about the tune you want to sing -- round here, JCIRT is sung to Easter Hymn, which is a rousing and majestic piece of work...

The Oremus website lists 42 hymn books that have a tune for the song, and according to them 41 print "Easter Hymn" (from the original tune tune in Lyra Davidica from which the words come) and one has "Llainfair" (also pretty rousing if not quite as majestic) The cyberhymnal website calles the tune "exuberant"!

Also JCIRT and CTLIRT basically are the same song, or different versions of the same song. They are translations of the same Latin original, and CTLIRT has been through the hands of Charles Wesley who expanded it a bit and added some 18th-century flourishes. Its sort of like the folk process [Smile]

And the original tune is "Easter Hymn" (or rather the very similar old tune that that is based on)

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Is "Thine be the Glory" even in Hymnal 1982? I don't know that I have ever sung it.

Funny you should mention that. It is not. I decided to go to a TEC church on Easter Sunday, and the only thing that I was disappointed about was that I knew my own church would be singing Thine Is the Glory while the Hymnal 1982 does not have it.

Lo and behold, what was sung at the TEC place? Thine Is the Glory, printed as a bulletin insert! I was ever so happy.

Changing Gears:
As a worship committee member at my place, we have some very "set" hymns that we stick with for particular occasions. Fortunately, these make our lives much simpler, and pretty much everybody is happy.

Honestly, I would feel a bit lost without some of these hymns, and it would make me sad if they were not used. The nice thing about these is that they transcend age boundaries.

Following are the hymns that would be missed by the "normal" people in the pews, and would be complained about if absent. Thankfully, we the committee do not roll that way, and we tend to pride ourselves on giving the people what they want without them having to ask for it or complain in its absence.

A special advantage that should not be discounted is the fact that people know these hymns. At your services on festivals, when you have lots of infrequent attendees and visitors, it is a good idea to choose hymns that your regulars want to sing and can sing vigorously and easily. Save the new, odd, and uncommonly-used stuff for the Sunday thereafter!

Christmas must-haves:
*O Come, All Ye Faithful
*Hark, the Herald Angels Sing
*Silent Night

Palm Sunday must-have:
*All Glory, Laud, and Honor

Easter must-have[s]:
*Jesus Christ Is Risen Today
*[We must use Thine Is the Glory during Easter season, but not necessarily on Easter Sunday. It is becoming more and more "required" every year.]

Holy Trinity must-have:
*Holy, Holy, Holy (Nicaea)

Reformation must-have:
*A Mighty Fortress

All Saints must-have:
*For All the Saints

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

Sorry for the double, but I wanted to clarify:

In the US, some denominations use "Jesus Christ is Risen Today...our triumphant holy day..." to EASTER HYMN. (Tends to be "middle" to "higher church" denoms and RC)

Other denominations use "Christ the Lord is risen today...sons of men and angels say..." to EASTER HYMN. (Tends to be "middle" to "lower church" denoms)

The commonality is that most use the tune EASTER HYMN on Easter Sunday.

Posted by Alogon (# 5513) on :

One lesson I've learned over the years is that so many good traditions are threatened these days and need defending, even when the locals will see the defense as innovation, that one should not waste one's ammunition and credibility in overthrowing a perhaps mediocre but fairly harmless tradition just for the sake of change. If people love singing a certain hymn on a certain day, and there isn't too much wrong with that hymn, then respect their sense of tradition by letting them sing it.

So "Jesus Christ is risen today" (Easter Hymn) is always the opener here.

I'l draw the line, however, at going on to sing two Arthur Sullivan tunes on the same day. We can do either Fortunatus or Saint Kevin on Easter Day, but please, God, not both. [Help]

Posted by Padre Joshua (# 13100) on :

We're United Methodist, so CTLIRT is de rigueur*. The choir sang it, and I was in the choir, but it was not a congregational piece. Perhaps later in the season.

___
*Translation: "Prescribed or required by fashion, etiquette, or custom."

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

St. Thomas Hollywood (a fairly well-known Nosebleed AC place) posted this video clip from the 2011 Easter Day liturgy.

As an Eccles regular, I am not ashamed to say that this particular choice of opening hymn for Easter Day would keep me from joining that church if I lived in the area.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Always a tricky issue, hymn selection.

I usually took the view that you couldn't introduce more than one 'new, interesting' hymn (so the OP where nothing was familiar sounds like a no-no), and if you're going to do that it's probably not best to pick one of the really big days to do it. Also, assess whether the tune is one that people will grasp easily.

I'd usually find that there were enough good ones within the well-known material for times like Easter and Christmas. Good Friday would always provide me with an opportunity for, to me, some of THE greatest classics in our hymn book - When I Survey the Wondrous Cross, O Sacred Head Sore Wounded and My Song Is Love Unknown are three of my favourite hymns of all.

Mind you, the best Christmas service I was ever involved in was one where we managed to extend ourselves at least slightly and not just roll out the utterly predictable ones. I'm sure we did at least 1 or 2 of the chart-toppers but we also threw in a version of The Little Drummer Boy that will stay with me forever, and I think that was also the year we did God Rest Ye Merry (Gentlemen).

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

Eccles it is. Moving ...

Barnabas62
Purgatory Host

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
St. Thomas Hollywood (a fairly well-known Nosebleed AC place) posted this video clip from the 2011 Easter Day liturgy.

As an Eccles regular, I am not ashamed to say that this particular choice of opening hymn for Easter Day would keep me from joining that church if I lived in the area.

What a bizarre selection for Easter Day. I've never seen a procession done in that manner and find it odd as well (not to start a tangent). For the processional hymn on a major feast day - especially one that brings visitors - you really do need one that's sing-able, belt-it-out festive, and familiar. Kind of like auricular comfort food.

Posted by George6833 (# 14995) on :

I've got a particular problem with the Handel " Thine is the Kingdom". I confabulate the tune with "Frosty the Snowman". Probably my personal problem......Happy Easter all.

Posted by MrMusicMan (# 16343) on :

Last Easter, our Pastor (who selects the hymns -- not me, thankfully!), programmed something else for the Gathering Hymn. I complained that Easter Hymn (Jesus Christ is Risen Today in ELW) should be programmed as the first hymn, for God and Charles Wesley ordained it be so (at least according to one of you Fools). She was not amused.

However, she programmed it during Communion as the third Distribution Hymn. A dear, sweet, college student, home for the Holiday cornered me and begged me to change the order of the Distribution Hymns. When I asked why, she told me that she really likes to sing Jesus Christ is Risen Today, and if we didn't get to it during Communion, it just wouldn't be Easter.

So, I changed the order of the Distribution Hymns to put JCIRT first, to ensure that it would be Easter for this young lady (I'm sure that her big, brown, puppy dog eyes looking up at me, or the lower cut of her neckline inviting me to look down at her had NOTHING to do with it). The gal's grandmother (who this year was rumored to be on a tear about the screaming toddler at Easter worship) also chimed in that we needed to sing JCIRT.

When the Pastor quizzed me after, I told her about the student who begged me to do it first because it wouldn't be Easter without JCIRT. She harumphed at me, at which time I reminded her that it's supposed to be the first hymn of the service, as God and Charles Wesley intended.

Guess what our Gathering Hymn this Easter was. [Cool]

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:

I'l draw the line, however, at going on to sing two Arthur Sullivan tunes on the same day. We can do either Fortunatus or Saint Kevin on Easter Day, but please, God, not both.

Scrap 'em both and do Lux Eoi instead!

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :

It's not Easter without the Easter Hymn. Period.
However, it's also not Maundy Thursday without "Tis Midnight and on Olive's Brow," which would be my mother's favorite hymn of all time. I think it's the biggest reason she attends MT services, really.
In America, you're pretty much required to do "We Gather Together" and "Harvest Home" on the Sunday before Thanksgiving. It's the one time besides Christmas you can be sure everyone learned the words to the song in elementary school.
I'm still wondering if I couldn't find a daring RC priest—and enough bribe money!—to get his congregation to sing "A Mighty Fortress" on the last Sunday in October. I'd even be willing to exchange Lutherans singing "Habemas Papam" for it . . .

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Eccles it is. Moving ...

Barnabas62
Purgatory Host

Eek! Don't think I've been here before.

*Waves a nervous hello to the natives*

Posted by Michael Astley (# 5638) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ken:

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Is "Thine be the Glory" even in Hymnal 1982? I don't know that I have ever sung it.
It must be just about the most common Easter hymn here. Almost compulsory.

It was new to me when I moved back to the UK. It was simply unknown in the Caribbean. I always felt it had potential as a triumphal hymn but I only knew that to be the case once, when a rather superb organist did wonders with it. The problem is that most hymnals set it so low that, without a talented organist to make up for the deficit, the singing is rather insipid. Most people just can't bellow out with any reasonable volume when they're growling away down there because the key is too low.

I believe TBTG is also not a part of the established repertoire of English Roman Catholic congregations. Some parishes may know it, and it may even appear in the hymnals, but I'm told that most people would find it unfamiliar.

"The Day of Resurrection" to Ellacombe is always good to start with, or to end with, for that matter. It's just a metrical version of this but I like it.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

"Jerusalem the Golden" is one of my favourite hymns, although St Thomas Hollywood starting with it at Easter is a bit odd. We sang as an introit "Hail the day that sees him rise" to the tune Llanfair from the Ascension section. Also a bit odd, but OK.

At my last church we always ended with "Jesus Christ is risen today" as the sanctuary party moved to the robed statue of Our Lady so we could then sing "Joy to thee, O Queen of Heaven" as the fourth verse to the same tune. (We always had the Angelus at that point outside Eastertide.)

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Custard:

You'd get complaints round here if you tried something as slow as Christ the Lord is risen today - it's blatantly not a celebratory tune.

You're obviously too young to remember After The Fire doing CTLIRT (tempo of about 240 bpm, if I recall!) [Biased]

Seriously, it can be done at a cracking pace, especially the wesleyan variant, and Wesley's lyrics are great. "Ours the cross, the grave, the skies, hallelujah!"

Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :

I'd agree that Thine Be the Glory is pretty much compulsory on Easter Sunday in any CofE church.

We also sang In Christ Alone, Low in the Grave He Lay and Happy Day (Tim Hughes version) - all completely suitable for the occasion.

My list of must-sings for other seasons of the year is fairly short, but FWIW:

Harvest - We Plough the fields and scatter (though our vicar doesn't like it)

Advent Sunday - O Come, O Come Immanuel

Christmas - Silent Night (Of course we always sing O Come all ye Faithful and Hark the Herald and it wouldn't be Christmas without them, but frankly I'm bored stiff of them both).

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

Come Down O love Divine for Pentecost and for any confirmation service.

Although not a particular favourite, For All the Saints on All Saints.

For Mary Mother of Our God and Sing we of the Blessed Mother for any Marian feast.

Of the Glorious Body Telling for Maundy Thursday during the procession to the altar of repose.

Brightest and Best of the Sons of the morning and O Worship the Lord for Epiphany.

Sweet Sacrament Divine for Corpus Christi.

Though an anthem rather than a hymn, I always look for a church that sings Hymn to the Trinity on Trinity Sunday.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

quote:
Originally posted by busyknitter:

We also sang In Christ Alone, Low in the Grave He Lay and Happy Day (Tim Hughes version) - all completely suitable for the occasion.

The problem with "The greatest day in history (O happy day)" is the vocal range! Gruntingly low to screechingly high. It just about works for a bloke, but the poor ladies, singing an octave higher, really struggle. I agree it's a fine song, but not easy for the congo.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Sometimes an old favourite gets changed to something weird, new, unusual (duty clergy and readers have the power of overriding choices if they so choose, and often do so to fit a point they wish to make in a sermon, eg.). However, there are various ways in which the old favourites can still be accommodated - for example, during the administration (which can often be long on Festival occasions) the choir can sing an extra anthem, which could be a harmonised version of a favourite hymn (in some churches, the congregation are in the habit of joining in with hymns sung during the administration). The organist could also play the hymn as a voluntary. People who have attended church then feel at least their known favourites have been included, even if they didn't get to actually sing all of them.

Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:

quote:
Originally posted by busyknitter:

We also sang In Christ Alone, Low in the Grave He Lay and Happy Day (Tim Hughes version) - all completely suitable for the occasion.
The problem with "The greatest day in history (O happy day)" is the vocal range! Gruntingly low to screechingly high. It just about works for a bloke, but the poor ladies, singing an octave higher, really struggle. I agree it's a fine song, but not easy for the congo.

I know. It is a shame as it is a fantastic song.

[Tangent alert] I'm used to singing first soprano so am quite happy with it as it is written. But to make it manageable for the congregation we usually take it down two semitones, which always gives me a comedy low note to cope with in the middle of the verse.

It seems to be a bit of tendency with contemporary worship songs that they don't take account of the comfortable singing range of the average congregation.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

Yes, BK. I'm married to a soprano, though she usually sings seconds these days, and we usually sing it a tone down. But, as you say, the first "alive" can be a bit droll! I'm sure much of the popularity of Brian Doerksen and Stuart Townend as tunesmiths is down to the fact that they write with congregations in mind.

Posted by TomOfTarsus (# 3053) on :

Christ the Lord is Risen Today isn't celebratory?

This video show it overdone to the extreme, and it didn't pick up the choir very well, but gee some of the kids ringing handbells are cute! Esp. the little girl with the really tiny bell - how do you get someone that young to do well with handbells? Wow!

I know at least one other tune that can be used, a church I attend uses it for "Jesus Christ is Risen Today" and I agree it is not a celebratory. That church alternates these two year by year. Obviously, I prefer this one!

Off to look up some of the others!

Blessings,

Tom

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Liturgylover:
For Mary Mother of Our God and Sing we of the Blessed Mother for any Marian feast.

"Her Virgin eyes saw God Incarnate born" is the one I'd like to have.2

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

The version Tom posted above is the one I'm familiar with and has been sung at every Easter Service I've attended.

Out of curiosity, could someone link to the other music used?

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
The problem is that most hymnals set it so low that, without a talented organist to make up for the deficit, the singing is rather insipid. Most people just can't bellow out with any reasonable volume when they're growling away down there because the key is too low.

That brings us back to the Bad Singer Problem. You are a good singer. Busyknitter is a good singer. I am a bad singer. Lots of people are bad singers. In fact most people are. In England more men are bad singers than women (entirely cultural, it doesn't seem to be the case in the Caribbean, South Africa, Wales, or the Baltic countries) so the lower parts of songs suffer greatly from bad singing.

Good singers tend to sing higher than their natural range, and as they get better, or get trained more, they get even higher. I can't remember where I read about it but I read some research once where someone taught simple songs to people and got them to sing them back the next day. Apparentl;y those with musical training or experience did it in pretty much the key they were taught in, but others dropped considerably - I'm not sure but I think I remember them saying that the natural range of the untrained adult women singers they tested (in America) was about a fourth or fifth lower than soprano, and the natural range of untrained adult men was mostly bass. You have to learn to be a tenor.

So maybe a celebratory and triumphant song that is a bit low for a good singer like you is actually more fun for the rest of us because we can belt it out. A hypothesis that might well explain "Thine be the glory" and even "Guide me O though great Jehovah".

And I agree about many modern choruses having a big range.

And Graham Kendrick's work might benefit by having someone come and rewrite the last two bars of most of his songs so they go places bad singers might expect and can reach.

Posted by St.Silas the carter (# 12867) on :

There was actually a bit of an argument in the choir loft and many, many disappointed comments from parishioners that we didn't sing 'My song is love unknown' on palm Sunday, having sung it each year for who knows how long. It's the only day of the year that hymn gets and outing, but it's supposedly too joyful to follow the reading of the passion. [Paranoid]

But also on the list of Hymns That You May Not Ever Replace For Any Reason Whatever are:

On Jordan's Bank the Baptist's Cry, for Advent I

The Angel Gabriel form Heaven came, on Lent 4

Hark The Herald as the processional on Christmas day. (If it's in any other place, it doesn't count.)

As With Gladness Men of Old on Epiphany

Ah! Holy Jesus on Passion Sunday

Hail all Hail great Queen of Heaven! on the patron's feast day. (Absolutely, can never be changed. It's been sung here on that date for the entire history of the parish. There would be an uprising were it left out.)

Holy God, We Praise Thy Name, on Trinity Sunday

Jesus, My Lord, My God, My all, on Corpus Christi

Hail Holy Queen, Enthroned Above, on Assumption

JCIRT At the end of the Easter Vigil is another tradition that got broken this year so that the Hallelujah Chorus could be sung. (Not my choice.) Usually it's at the beginning of the easter day service, and we have I Know That My Redeemer Lives, sung to Duke Street as the recessional. This year, the first hymn was The Strife is O'er, and JCIRT was at the end.

Posted by Anglican_Brat (# 12349) on :

For me, there are certain hymns that just fit for specific feast days:

Christmas "Once in Royal David's City" for the Procession
"Of the Father's Love Begotten" (Especially if the Gospel is the Prologue from St John's Gospel)

First Sunday of Lent "Forty Days and Forty Nights"

Palm Sunday "All Glory, Laud and Honor" and "Ride on, Ride on in Majesty"
For the Passion: "My Song is Love Unknown"

Maundy Thursday: "O Thou at Thy Eucharist Didst Pray", "Now my Tongue, the Mystery Telling"
Good Friday: "O Sacred Head, surrounded", "Sing my Tongue the Glorious Battle"
Easter Sunday: Either "Jesus Christ is risen today" or "Christ the Lord is risen today", "Ye Choirs of New Jerusalem"

Ascension: "Hail the Day that sees him rise"

Pentecost: A translation or a paraphrase of "Veni Creator Spiritus"

Trinity Sunday: Either "I bind unto thee today" or "Holy, Holy, Holy", "Bright the Vision that Delighted" especially if the reading is from Isaiah 6.

Posted by FatherRobLyons (# 14622) on :

I have never heard this "Thine Be The Glory" hymn of which y'all speak. Will have to look it up.

Our plate for Easter Sunday was:

PROCESSIONAL: Jesus Christ is Risen Today
COVENANT RENEWAL: Baptized in Water
OFFERTORY: At the Lamb's High Feast
COMMUNION INSTRUMENTAL: Be Joyful, Mary
RECESSIONAL: Alleluia! Alleluia! Let the Holy Anthem Rise

For our Mass setting, we used the Mass of Renewal by Curtis Stephan (Oregon Catholic Press).

We use Gather Comprehensive, Volume II from GIA as our hymnal now, though we are looking at other hymnals for the future. Not sure how that might impact us next year, but I can say the five hymns above pretty much summarize what we do every Pascha. On the Sundays of Eastertide, we'll get some other good Easter Music in, but I promise that Holy Anthem will get at least another airing or two... mainly because it is my favorite Easter hymn ever.

Rob+

Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :

quote:
Originally posted by FatherRobLyons:
I have never heard this "Thine Be The Glory" hymn of which y'all speak. Will have to look it up.

Here it is in its most natural habitat, BBC Songs of Praise. [Big Grin]

Posted by TomOfTarsus (# 3053) on :

quote:
Originally posted by busyknitter:

quote:
Originally posted by FatherRobLyons:
I have never heard this "Thine Be The Glory" hymn of which y'all speak. Will have to look it up.

Here it is in its most natural habitat, BBC Songs of Praise.

Thanks for that! I recall singing it now.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

'The greatest day in history (O happy day)' has to be one of the worst in the repetoire.

Go for Philip Doddridge's original 'O happy day that fixed my choice ...'

But leave this crap out.

Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
'The greatest day in history (O happy day)' has to be one of the worst in the repetoire.

Go for Philip Doddridge's original 'O happy day that fixed my choice ...'

But leave this crap out.

Blimey! I can imagine folk not liking it because they don't like the contemporary worship song genre in general. But it's a good example of it's kind and I think "crap" is a bit harsh.

[Eccles a scarier place than I expected.......]

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

Those of you who have entries for "Crappy choruses and horrible hymns" can enter them on the appropriate thread in Dead Horses. Can we confine this one to the OP subject, please?

seasick, Eccles host

Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :

Oops, sorry. Gamaliel, have posted in the DH thread if you are interested (which you very likely aren't.....)

[ 12. April 2012, 19:06: Message edited by: busyknitter ]

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BalddudeCrompond:
This week I had the dubious pleasure of never having sung,nor played, any of the hymns on Easter Sunday.

As a matter of interest, what hymns did you have?

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by MrMusicMan:
Last Easter, our Pastor (who selects the hymns -- not me, thankfully!), programmed something else for the Gathering Hymn. I complained that Easter Hymn (Jesus Christ is Risen Today in ELW) should be programmed as the first hymn, for God and Charles Wesley ordained it be so (at least according to one of you Fools). She was not amused.
...
When the Pastor quizzed me after, I told her about the student who begged me to do it first because it wouldn't be Easter without JCIRT. She harumphed at me...

Seminary Preschool Lesson 1: Don't do the above! This is a frequent occurrence, and I have come to the conclusion that the seminaries must be teaching them to be difficult. (After which they have a colloquium about declining church attendance...)

quote:
AristonAstuanax:
In America, you're pretty much required to do "We Gather Together" and "Harvest Home" on the Sunday before Thanksgiving. It's the one time besides Christmas you can be sure everyone learned the words to the song in elementary school.
I'm still wondering if I couldn't find a daring RC priest—and enough bribe money!—to get his congregation to sing "A Mighty Fortress" on the last Sunday in October. I'd even be willing to exchange Lutherans singing "Habemas Papam" for it . . .

Thanksgiving is tricky because it usually coincides with Christ the King and/or the First Sunday in Advent. I usually put the Thanksgiving hymns on the second Sunday in November, the one between All Saints and Christ the King. If Christ the King is after Thanksgiving Day, then I can use Thanksgiving hymns on the Sunday directly before.

As for Habemus Papam, I know a few Lutheran choirs that would most likely be willing to sing it as a snarky comment about their leadership...

quote:
Venbede:
We sang as an introit "Hail the day that sees him rise" to the tune Llanfair from the Ascension section. Also a bit odd, but OK.

The (Wesley?) Ascension hymn "Hail the day that sees him rise" is certainly sung to LLANFAIR in the US.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:

In America, you're pretty much required to do "We Gather Together" and "Harvest Home" on the Sunday before Thanksgiving.

The problem is that for us that Sunday is either Advent I or the Sunday Next Before Advent. If the latter, I can see squeezing in a Thanksgiving hymn somewhere (Offertory, or Recessional maybe). In general, though, I'm fairly adamant about not transferring feasts. If the folks want Thanksgiving hymns, then let 'em come to Mass on Thanksgiving.

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :

The other one that I thought of: did/does anyone do a setting of one of John Donne's religious poems on his feast day, 31 March? For that matter, are there any good settings of Donne for use in services?

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
The other one that I thought of: did/does anyone do a setting of one of John Donne's religious poems on his feast day, 31 March? For that matter, are there any good settings of Donne for use in services?

Britten set a few of the Holy Sonnets, but they seem a bit too art-songy for use in a liturgy. They are wonderful, though--especially the passacaglia he composed for "Death be not proud".

Posted by CorgiGreta (# 443) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
St. Thomas Hollywood (a fairly well-known Nosebleed AC place) posted this video clip from the 2011 Easter Day liturgy.

As an Eccles regular, I am not ashamed to say that this particular choice of opening hymn for Easter Day would keep me from joining that church if I lived in the area.

I can think of much better reasons for not joining our parish.

Seriously though, I don't find the hymn inappropriate for Resurrection Sunday. I assume that the destination of our own resurrection is part of the celebration.

On a more practical level, we use that hymn quite regularly when we have a solemn procession, as opposed to an entrance procession. Its many verses (including one written by Fr. Davies)pretty well covers the full procession. The congregation is quite familiar with the hymn, and it is sung at a rafter- shaking level, perhaps not apparent in the video.

Note that we did sing JCIRT although it has not been sung during some past Easters. However, we ALWAYS use the JCIRT as the hymn tune for the Regina Caeli. [Biased]

I suspect that we shall sing "Thine be the Glory" this Sunday.

[ 12. April 2012, 23:16: Message edited by: CorgiGreta ]

Posted by CorgiGreta (# 443) on :

The 2011 video is that of our 8:00am, not the 10:30am, High Mass. The former draws fewer than 100 people (whose vocal chords are not yet fully energized) so, of course, the singing is relatively subdued.

There is a video of the 2012 10:30 Easter High Mass although it shows some uncharacteristic music due to our current organ restoration project.

Posted by CorgiGreta (# 443) on :

The following may contain images of inappropriate hymn singing. Viewer discretion is advised.

Here's a video of the 2012 Easter High Mass.

Posted by Quam Dilecta (# 12541) on :

Heaven knows why the compilers of TEC's hymnals have snubbed "Thine Be the Glory" not once, but twice (1941 and 1982). I first encountered it as a teenager at an ecumenical youth assembly in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and I have loved it ever since.

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by CorgiGreta:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
St. Thomas Hollywood (a fairly well-known Nosebleed AC place) posted this video clip from the 2011 Easter Day liturgy.

As an Eccles regular, I am not ashamed to say that this particular choice of opening hymn for Easter Day would keep me from joining that church if I lived in the area.
I can think of much better reasons for not joining our parish.

Seriously though, I don't find the hymn inappropriate for Resurrection Sunday. I assume that the destination of our own resurrection is part of the celebration.

On a more practical level, we use that hymn quite regularly when we have a solemn procession, as opposed to an entrance procession. Its many verses (including one written by Fr. Davies)pretty well covers the full procession. The congregation is quite familiar with the hymn, and it is sung at a rafter- shaking level, perhaps not apparent in the video.

Note that we did sing JCIRT although it has not been sung during some past Easters. However, we ALWAYS use the JCIRT as the hymn tune for the Regina Caeli.

I suspect that we shall sing "Thine be the Glory" this Sunday.

I had long suspected that there must be a deeper reason for this particular hymn's use on Easter. I don't disagree with its suitability, but I certainly believe that there are far better choices.

My difficulty with membership would be that something like this is very often symptomatic of deeper control/management issues, which seemed to be a driving force behind the OP. I, for instance, have lived through being at the mercy of one person having total control over the liturgy and music at a church, and it was a catastrophe. Realistically, I doubt there would be too many sad people even in your parish if they were to drop Jerusalem TG and substitute it with Thine Be or JCIRT.

We have reached a point where JCIRT is pretty much expected in most churches. The places that don't use it tend to have a person in charge who just likes to be difficult. Maybe that's not your church, but I would certainly assume so until proven otherwise.

Posted by CorgiGreta (# 443) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:
St. Thomas Hollywood (a fairly well-known Nosebleed AC place) posted this video clip from the 2011 Easter Day liturgy.
I've never seen a procession done in that manner and find it odd as well (not to start a tangent).

Sorry for continuing the tangent, but in my experience, such a procession is quite common in Anglo-Catholic parishes. Do we need a separate thread?

Posted by CorgiGreta (# 443) on :

Martin, my dear,

If you knew my parish, I think you would find that we are a dictator's nightmare, a bunch impossible to control on any level, let alone musical. We are opinionated and vocal, and music is very high on the list of our concerns. If we wanted something other than JtG, it would be gone.

Posted by CorgiGreta (# 443) on :

Hoping to offer a measure of comfort for those who are disturbed by our hymn selections, I hasten to point out that we do NOT sing JtG on Christmas Eve.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin L:

quote:
Venbede:
We sang as an introit "Hail the day that sees him rise" to the tune Llanfair from the Ascension section. Also a bit odd, but OK.
The (Wesley?) Ascension hymn "Hail the day that sees him rise" is certainly sung to LLANFAIR in the US.

O there's nothing odd about singing Wesley's Hail the Day to Llanfair (the alternative of Chiselhurst is rare). What was odd was having as the first congregational hymn on Easter Day.

Posted by Vulpior (# 12744) on :

When I was involved with the Good Friday Cross Walks in Bath, we unfailingly sang "There is a green hill far away" on the last outdoor stop before the walks met up, and "When I survey" as the first hymn altogether in the Abbey Churchyard.

I always think of being with the gathered mass of Christians singing it there each year, and it's an essential for me.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I've been pondering why I am resistant to Thine Be the Glory, when I'm a great fan of Handel.

It may be because I am subconsciously remembering the highly bombastic original words to the tune:

Hail the conquering hero comes
Sound the trumpet, beat the drums.

Handel re-used the chorus in his oratorio Judas Maccabeus when it was played to celebrate Butcher Cumberland's defeat of the Jacobites at the Battle of Culloden.

Posted by Ultracrepidarian (# 9679) on :

Thine be the blory is something that I've encountered in the UK every Easter, but it wasn't part of the repetoire for Easter services at the Pressie church I attended in Australia.

On the other hand, I agree that Jesus Christ is Risen Today to the tune of Easter Hymn should be made compulsory for all Easter Sunday services. [Smile]

One hymn that was very special to me at my church in Australia was O come and mourn with me a while for Good Friday to the excellent tune St Cross by J. B. Dykes. I missed out this year, but I'm trying to introduce it (or at least the version of it that appears in the NEH) at my current church in Oxford.

Posted by Padre Joshua (# 13100) on :

Since we're talking about preferred hymns for special days, here's my list:

Advent 1: "Lo, He Comes with Clouds Descending" by Wesley, sung to Helmsley -- Processional

First Sunday of Christmas: "Joy to the World" by Watts, sung to Antioch -- Processional

Transfiguration: "Christ, Whose Glory Fills the Skies" by Wesley, sung to Ratisbon

Ash Wednesday: "Lord, Who Throughout These Forty Days" by Claudia Hernaman, sung to Land of Rest

One Sunday in Lent: "And Can It Be that I Should Gain" by Wesley, sung to Sagina

Good Friday: "O Love Divine, What Hast Thou Done" by Wesley, sung to Selena -- last hymn sung, before the scattering

Easter: "Christ the Lord is Risen Today" by Wesley, sung to Easter Hymn (And yes, it is very celebratory!) -- Processional

All Saints: "For All the Saints" by William How, sung to Sine Nomine -- Processional

There are other favorites, of course, but that's what I would pick if I were king of the world.

Posted by SmokeyMary (# 10933) on :

I can live without Jesus Christ is Risen Today (though we always use it at the end of Mass, I'm not going to fight that battle) however, it's not Easter for me without Hail Thee, Festival Day for the Solemn Procession.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
Advent 1: "Lo, He Comes with Clouds Descending"

Also "Hail to the Lord's anointed" and nowadays "O come O come Emmanuel". All three compulsory. Not Advent without them.

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Is "Thine be the Glory" even in Hymnal 1982? I don't know that I have ever sung it.

As to "Jesus Christ is Risen Today" not being celebratory, you apparently have never heard our descanters do their thing. But this might start verging on the old contemporary vs traditional hymn dead horse, so I will just say "personal taste" and be done with it.

I think it became popular about 1985, so it may have made in into the 1982, then again it may not. I cannot check as my parish's solitary copy of the '82 Hymnal is in the church office, and I am at home right now.

The one I cannot do without is

"Alleluia, alleluia! Hearts and voices heav'nward raise"

"The Strife is o'er" comes a close second at our shack.

"Hail thee festival day" is now becoming quite popular here, but I only recently persuaded them to give it a go.

PD

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

What I would like at Easter, and am not likely to get, is the sequence "Christians to the paschal victim".

(Old) English Hymnal gives an "original tune" for Easter Hymn which I have hummed at times when others are singing the familiar version.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
What I would like at Easter, and am not likely to get, is the sequence "Christians to the paschal victim".

(Old) English Hymnal gives an "original tune" for Easter Hymn which I have hummed at times when others are singing the familiar version.

If you're ever in Northern California over Easter, venbede, come to our place and you'll get not only the Easter Sequence but the Gradual and Alleluia that precede it. [Smile]

Posted by Martin L (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PD:

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Is "Thine be the Glory" even in Hymnal 1982?
I think it became popular about 1985, so it may have made in into the 1982, then again it may not.

Thine be the Glory is not in The Hymnal 1982.

The people who put together H82 certainly must have known about it. Thine is the Glory made it into the Lutheran Book of Worship, which came out in the late 70s, and the liturgical cross-pollination between BCP79 and LBW is blatantly obvious. There is no way that the H82 people did not take a look at LBW.

quote:
Venbede:
O there's nothing odd about singing Wesley's Hail the Day to Llanfair (the alternative of Chiselhurst is rare). What was odd was having as the first congregational hymn on Easter Day.

Yes, that certainly qualifies as an oddity, particularly when there are so many Easter hymns that can be set to LLANFAIR if desired.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

I think many people just don't read on and so don't realise that the rising referred to in the first line isn't the resurrection but the ascension.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
The other one that I thought of: did/does anyone do a setting of one of John Donne's religious poems on his feast day, 31 March? For that matter, are there any good settings of Donne for use in services?

The Hymnal 1982 (TEC) contains a setting of Donne's 'Wilt Thou Forgive That Sin', one of his more famous holy sonnets, the one with the punning final line. The melody (though not the harmony IIRC) is by John Hilton (16th cent?) which fits the text quite well. We use it most years at least once in Lent, frequently during comunion on Ash Wednesday.

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