Ship of Fools: Titanic obsession

Thread: Titanic obsession Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Saturation coverage time again, this time it's the Titanic. TV programmes, radio programmes, news broadcasts, films, there are special events, two memorial voyages, the sealife centres and aquariums are having Titanic exhibitions, and there's spin-off merchandise. Even the National Trust have sent a reminder asking subscribers whether they've remembered it's the 100th anniversary. You can't get away from it.

It's everywhere. Literally - there are events worldwide. It's totally disproportionate. Yes, it was a tragedy, but other ships have sunk, planes and trains have crashed and there hasn't been this kind of hype. Nobody was particularly bothered about the Titanic in the past few decades.

Enough is enough. Stop bombarding us with Titanic memorabilia. Much of this is only done to make money out of a tragedy.

Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :

Count yourself you don't live near Southampton, where the mawkishness is near ubiquitous.

Posted by Herrick (# 15226) on :

Ariel i agree , even in Australia it has been an orgy of tales.

Posted by MiceElf (# 4389) on :

Sadly I do live in Southampton..

I watched the ending of a programme about the musicians from the Titanic introduced by Suggs..
He was standing in front of the Titanic memorial for the Stokers and Engineers FFS!!!! Clearly seen behind him as he continued his drivel, were the images of the stokers shovelling coal, not a musician in sight. If you have to do something, at least get it right!

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I was in the pub the other week and they had a Titanic beer on tap. I fancy that goes down well I said to the barman but he just looked at me so I didn't add anything about sinking a pint.

Part of my native city has been redeveloped as the
Titanic Quarter - though I suspect it'll still be known as 'the dacks'.

I suspect it's all a bit more copeable with than the few hundred million other deaths from war, famine, genocide and assorted disasters there's been since. They had nice frocks on! And it wasn't too messy! And some people survived! And it was all a long time ago so we can feel a bit sad, but not to the point of being inconvenienced.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Two years from now it'll be the 100th anniversary of the start of World War I. We can probably look forward - or backward - to four years of retrospectives of that.

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

You're all just a bunch of heartless cynics. It's obviously Very Important Indeed - they've even re-released the film in 3D.

[cue iceberg jokes, which are strangely lacking from this thread thus far.]

I've intentionally avoided reading or watching in detail any of the many publicity items...... please tell me that they aren't laying flowers in cellophane wrapping anywhere, à la Diana etc.

I can only echo Trisagion's mention of mawkishness. Thank god we shall have the Olympics and the Jubilee to help take our minds off it.

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

It all cuts no ice with me.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:
[cue iceberg jokes, which are strangely lacking from this thread thus far.]

Lettuce hope there will be no further iceberg incidents.

Posted by MiceElf (# 4389) on :

A friend of mine from these parts, now living in Londontown came to visit this week. She noticed that high street in Southampton now proudly boasted another title, namely " The QE2 Mile "

Hmmmm She asked, why did they call it that, it's hardly the Edinburgh " Royal Mile "by any stretch of the imagination.

I told her that it WAS going to be called the Titanic Mile, BUT....

It's amazing how many iceberg, sinking, lifeboat/ disaster jokes you can make between the corner of HMV and the coffee shop at Marks and Spensers.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Radio 4Extra (formerly Radio 7) is running a series of 'Titanic letters'. Fortunately these are in five minute slots and mostly there is a tale from a survivor to balance that of a sailor who went down with the ship, leaving his widow and childern in poverty.

<unfortunate naming tangent>

Dunderheaded naming seems to be inevitable. When a housing estate was built on the site of RAF Hornchurch (a Battle of Britain fighter airfield) some houses were on Bader Walk. Well, he could, but it was pretty crass. I'll let a Mancunian describe the fuss over the naming of the home fan's end of the City of Manchester (now the Etihad) Stadium.

</unfortunate naming tangent>

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:
You're all just a bunch of heartless cynics. It's obviously Very Important Indeed - they've even re-released the film in 3D.

[cue iceberg jokes, which are strangely lacking from this thread thus far.]

I've intentionally avoided reading or watching in detail any of the many publicity items...... please tell me that they aren't laying flowers in cellophane wrapping anywhere, à la Diana etc.

I can only echo Trisagion's mention of mawkishness. Thank god we shall have the Olympics and the Jubilee to help take our minds off it.

Brilliant movie!!!

love story and a young Leo for the girls
fx and a nude Kate Winslet from when she had curves for the boys
PG-13 rating for parents

Cameron found a formula to keep the teenagers coming back again and again. Shame he couldn't find a way to justify a sequel. No movie since has followed that formula.

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

@Sioni

would that be the Colin Bell memorial stand, by any chance?

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

This far away (NZ) we're reaching for connections, but a local throwaway paper had a photo of the Captain playing bowls* in Lyttelton (local Port), and someone vaguely connected (First Mate's wife or somthing) is buried in the cemetry down the road.

*and no one even mentioned Sir Francis Drake. [Biased]

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

My wife's Granddad died at the grand old age of 102. He remembered attending a memorial service to those who'd died on The Titanic at the parish church in the South Yorkshire village where he grew up. Everyone was in tears.

I asked him whether they'd known anyone who'd been involved - they hadn't. 'News like that had more impact in those days,' he said.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

@Firenze, The Titanic brewery is in Stoke-on-Trent, home of the ill-fated Captain Smith. How someone who grew up so far inland ended up as a sea captain mystifies me ...

I'm not sure I'd want to name a brewery after it, though. I like their stout and their light ales are quite interesting, but not my favourites.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

The thing that annoys me about all the weeping relatives and so on is that there's a very high probability all those folk would have been dead by now anyway. I find it pretty damn hard to take seriously tears over great-great-grandfather Joe who would have been 162 next June if only is life hadn't been tragically cut short.

[ 16. April 2012, 00:36: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by monkeylizard (# 952) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Shame he couldn't find a way to justify a sequel. No movie since has followed that formula.

Even Cameron can't justify a sequel when both his star character and his set sank to the bottom of the ocean.

George Lucas, on the other hand, would have made multiple movies about those times "Jack" regaled the 1st class passengers with as he tramped around Europe, probably by jetpack.

Posted by OliviaG (# 9881) on :

Best Titanic advice I've received was to watch the movie from the beginning to the discovery of the wreck, and then jump to the iceberg and watch to the end. Goes by quicker, way more exciting. And no horrifically stereotypical Italian buddy. [Mad]

OliviaG

Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on :

it is interesting how some things are remembered and some not. The General Slocum disaster, when a passenger ferry burned and sank, in New York City in 1904, killed almost as many people as the Titanic(aprox. 1021) but in all probability I'm the only poster here who's heard of it, and I only have because of a slight family connection (my grandfather was involved in rescue efforts). There were similar issues of safety concerns, not enough lifeboats and life preservers, and outrage at the time was tremendous. Yet it's all but forgotten today.

Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on :

too late to edit, but I wanted to add, the novel Ulysses takes place the day after the General Slocum disaster, and mentions it, so people may be aware of it through that.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

The Titanic ranks 7th on the list of peacetime maritime disasters. I think you would have a difficult time finding seven people here who have heard of even one of the first six.

While I am a bit tired of fuss, I do understand it. A brand new, massive ship, perceived to be state of the art sinks on its maiden voyage. Massively rich people died as well as lots of poor people. Tailor made to be regarded as a tragedy. Plus a sickeningly saccharine movie.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

The collision of the Dona Paz and Vector would make for an interesting movie. I don't see James Cameron directing it. Strikes me as being more of a Darren Aronofsky or Ang Lee type project.

[ 16. April 2012, 03:08: Message edited by: Beeswax Altar ]

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The Titanic ranks 7th on the list of peacetime maritime disasters. I think you would have a difficult time finding seven people here who have heard of even one of the first six.

While I am a bit tired of fuss, I do understand it. A brand new, massive ship, perceived to be state of the art sinks on its maiden voyage. Massively rich people died as well as lots of poor people. Tailor made to be regarded as a tragedy. Plus a sickeningly saccharine movie.

The Halifax Explosion of 1917 is well-known in Canada but not elsewhere.

Posted by SeraphimSarov (# 4335) on :

Then there is the true disaster of Julian Fellowes' version known as "Drownton Abbey"

Posted by SeraphimSarov (# 4335) on :

Then there is the true disaster of Julian Fellowes' version known as "Drownton Abbey"

[ 16. April 2012, 03:48: Message edited by: SeraphimSarov ]

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on :

It is a great story. And a true one. It resonates with people on all sorts of levels. It is part of our, or at least my cultural heritage. Part of history with a capital H. It is one of those events that was more than the sum of its individual parts.

I still find the thought of it very moving. I can even tear up a bit when I think of the band playing on the deck. Or of Mrs. Strauss choosing to stay with her husband. Or of John Jacob Astor handing his wife into the lifeboat, telling her he'd be along in the next one.

We probably have Walter Lord who wrote "a night to remember" to thank for a lot of this. His book sort of put the Titanic back on the map when it was published. And it stayed there pretty much ever since.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

Our cathedral converted itself into the titanic dining hall. Had first class passengers in one section and second class in another. Different menues and the whole shaboodle.

Impressive!

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on :

Okay Ariel, I get your point.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I so hate it when people are interested in things I'm not.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The Titanic ranks 7th on the list of peacetime maritime disasters. I think you would have a difficult time finding seven people here who have heard of even one of the first six.

Preacher today pointed out it wasn't just a disaster in head count, it is a classic story of pride brought low (the theme of some classic Greek plays)"we built a ship that won't sink, we don't need enough lifeboats for all"; plus a story of faith in technology but we find out nature is bigger, plus a story of social class divisions in that first class passengers had much better survival chances.

Most sinking ships don't have all these dramatic sub-themes woven through the story.

Which reminds me, a friend said a novel told the story before the Titanic was built -- facts so parallel it was as if a premonition, a ship named Titan believed unsinkable but hit an iceburg.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Part of my native city has been redeveloped as the
Titanic Quarter - though I suspect it'll still be known as 'the dacks'.

wow - nobody's mentioned what bad juju that is? especially all those big buildings right on the water... cue tsunami...

quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
The Halifax Explosion of 1917 is well-known in Canada but not elsewhere.

We got that one in school. Canadian teacher. had a lot of odd Canadiana in my education.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
[QUOTE]Preacher today pointed out it wasn't just a disaster in head count, it is a classic story of pride brought low (the theme of some classic Greek plays)"we built a ship that won't sink, we don't need enough lifeboats for all"; plus a story of faith in technology but we find out nature is bigger, plus a story of social class divisions in that first class passengers had much better survival chances.

It's all gone a bit far hasn't it ..... now where IS my lucky pig??

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

To be clear this sick obsession is only a perversion of our God given gift of love and kindness. As such it is not to be mocked, more pitied. That our lives have fallen so far that we thrash around like children in the dark pouring out our inner heart break and loneliness on this thing that did not happen in living memory. Turning our backs on our children, our neighbours and our God. Weeping at some half known story, never thinking of the cowards that survived or the stupidity and pride that caused the accident. And certainly never questioning our own lack of reality. Don’t get me wrong I cried in the film, (I cry a lot) I just know the difference between the fiction of the past and the reality of the present and would prefer to live in the later.

AtB Pyx_e

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
.... we thrash around like children in the dark pouring out our inner heart break and loneliness on this thing that did not happen in living memory ....

People often need an excuse to pour out their inner heartbreak. This doesn't mean they turn their backs on the present imo. Far from it.

I avoided all the Titanic coverage - my radio and TV have off switches.

I used them.

[ 16. April 2012, 08:14: Message edited by: Boogie ]

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
The collision of the Dona Paz and Vector would make for an interesting movie.

It will never be made, the villains didn't have BBC english accents...

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Part of my native city has been redeveloped as the
Titanic Quarter - though I suspect it'll still be known as 'the dacks'.
wow - nobody's mentioned what bad juju that is? especially all those big buildings right on the water... cue tsunami...

In the Irish Sea? Ireland itself is about as aseismic as they come. No, what you have to worry about is slow absorption by eight metres of sleech.

[ 16. April 2012, 08:26: Message edited by: Firenze ]

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Lol, you got there before me. A tsunami coming up Belfast Lough would make a class movie though.

Posted by pjl (# 16929) on :

I recall years ago sailing across the North Atlantic on a merchant vessel.We were informed that the following day at 1900 hours we would be at the aprox location of the Titanics sinking.

As I was on my watch in the engine room at the allotted time I glanced the sea temp gauge which indicated 31F, which was the reported sea temp at the time of the sinking.

Years after I was hurled into an outside swimming pool 'for a laugh' where the temp was 3C. I only spent about 15 secs in the water but it took hours to ' thaw out.'

When I watched the film it was the poor souls in the water that got me.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Lol, you got there before me. A tsunami coming up Belfast Lough would make a class movie though.

I can see it now ... panic rises as, for the first two-thirds of the movie, politicians argue over whether it's a Catholic tsunami or a Protestant tsunami.

I caught a bit of a tv show a couple of weeks ago that debunked some of the Titanic legends. No-one, for instance, seems to have called it "unsinkable" until after it sank. So the Titanic-as-hubris story doesn't seem to ... um ... float.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I avoided all the Titanic coverage - my radio and TV have off switches.

I used them.

So did I. I just haven't managed to find one for the placards outside newsagents' shops, the advertising posters around and about, the cunningly disguised articles in newspapers that you have to get past the front page to see, various things on the internet or overheard conversations in public places. It's now at the ridiculous stage where there’s some reminder of it on an average of about four times a day.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The Titanic ranks 7th on the list of peacetime maritime disasters. I think you would have a difficult time finding seven people here who have heard of even one of the first six.

I've heard of the Wilhelm Gustloff. I was a student in Germany in the 1950s, and some of the students I met had fled from the advancing Russians. Obviously, they weren't on that ship, but they knew all about it. Apparently it was so crowded that people could not sit down even on the decks; they had to stand shoulder-to-shoulder.

Moo

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

Incidentally, during World War 2 the Queen Mary was used as a troopship and on some voyages carried more than 16,000 people. If it had been torpedoed, there would have been an unbelievable death toll.

Moo

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I just know the difference between the fiction of the past and the reality of the present and would prefer to live in the later.

As far as "fiction" goes we're certainly on firmer ground – so to speak – with the Titanic story then we are with either the Christmas or Easter narratives so I'm not quite sure where you're going with that.

Posted by kankucho (# 14318) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I was in the pub the other week and they had a Titanic beer on tap. I fancy that goes down well I said to the barman but he just looked at me so I didn't add anything about sinking a pint.

Part of my native city has been redeveloped as the
Titanic Quarter - though I suspect it'll still be known as 'the dacks'.

I suspect it's all a bit more copeable with than the few hundred million other deaths from war, famine, genocide and assorted disasters there's been since. They had nice frocks on! And it wasn't too messy! And some people survived! And it was all a long time ago so we can feel a bit sad, but not to the point of being inconvenienced.

As a frequent visitor to your native province, I'm waiting for Bushmills to produce a Titanic-commemorative whiskey, which we can all enjoy ordering over ice.

Best o' luck to them down the Dacks. The Titanic Centre is a fine piece of construction. And, as they're so fond of saying, "it was perfectly ok when it left here."

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Lol, you got there before me. A tsunami coming up Belfast Lough would make a class movie though.
I can see it now ... panic rises as, for the first two-thirds of the movie, politicians argue over whether it's a Catholic tsunami or a Protestant tsunami.

I caught a bit of a tv show a couple of weeks ago that debunked some of the Titanic legends. No-one, for instance, seems to have called it "unsinkable" until after it sank. So the Titanic-as-hubris story doesn't seem to ... um ... float.

This is true enough.

But, as the Onion headlined it 'World's Largest Metaphor Sinks'. It's hard not to be drawn in, regardless of the facts and the unseemly hype.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
As a frequent visitor to your native province, I'm waiting for Bushmills to produce a Titanic-commemorative whiskey, which we can all enjoy ordering over ice.

Only over this ice

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

I'm an engineer by training. I love to see how things fail and how we can make them better. Titanic was important in that it was the first accident to be given something like an "after-accident investigation". Until then if you went to sea, you took your chances. There was lip-service about lifeboats, but North Atlantic shipping at the time believed that another ship could be summoned to rescue a vessel in distress. The Titanic showed that model was wrong, wrong, wrong.

There were two inquiries which led to substantive changes in marine practices. Shipping lanes were moved south after the Titanic incident to avoid ice and the International Ice Patrol was formed. The Lifeboat requirement was changed to make sure everyone could get off.

The Titanic was a systematic failure, it showed that much of what we thought was adequate was deeply flawed. It wasn't negligence, it was flawed assumptions.

Engineers always get a kick out of debunking flawed assumptions.

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on :

For some reason I was just now thinking about Eleanor Widener who lost both her husband and her son that night. One result of this loss was the Widener library at Harvard, given in memory of her son Harry.

Sure she was rich and we don't like that anymore. And sure it happened a long long time ago. And sure there are many needs that we need to address in the world today.

But to me it is a great story and stories are important. And it's okay to remember them and to even celebrate them. I don't think it takes anything away from today. I think it enriches it.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:
Originally posted by comet:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Part of my native city has been redeveloped as the
Titanic Quarter - though I suspect it'll still be known as 'the dacks'.
wow - nobody's mentioned what bad juju that is? especially all those big buildings right on the water... cue tsunami...
In the Irish Sea? Ireland itself is about as aseismic as they come. No, what you have to worry about is slow absorption by eight metres of sleech.

I understand, I wasn't really trying to say that a tsunami was likely; just that naming the place after the Titanic is almost like throwing down a glove. "hey God, let's see what you've got!"

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on :

Yes, as names for things go that one is pretty much spoiled.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

Part of my native city has been redeveloped as the
Titanic Quarter - though I suspect it'll still be known as 'the dacks'.

The organizers had a big party to launch the Titanic exhibition. Complete with - fireworks!

Tactful, eh? [Big Grin]

The Walter Lord book is probably one of the best ways to appreciate the human side of the tragedy. Concise, not overly dramatic and based on real-life accounts.

Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

This is the 160th anniversary of the sinking of HMS Birkenhead. No one makes a movie about it.

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
I can even tear up a bit when I think of the band playing on the deck.

As a musician, this is the part that gets me every time. It's where I can connect with the story.

I'm not a Titanic fanatic (and I've met some people who really are, so I can sympathize with Ariel to a point). The one story I've heard (on NPR) which touched me was the story of the musicians, playing on the darkened deck.

Even before the anniversary, this was a story which captured imaginations. Not always mine, but enough that it has remained alive. In the end, it's better documented than many disasters, which makes it easier to put oneself into the story. In the midst of all the mistakes, stupidity, etc. there were a lot of people who died well, honoring their better side instead of reverting to their worst.

It certainly doesn't hurt to remember that from time to time.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

I confess to having had moderate Titanic obsession this weekend passed.
Listened to Jeremy Vine's 'minute by minute' Radio 2 programme of the sinking until 2.20 am April 15th 2012. Also watched about six TV films and documentaries on the subject.

100 years is a man-made period of time , and it could be argued that much of the sentiment surrounding this single event has been man-made, yet the story of Titanic has entered folklore because it just has all the right ingredients.

Yes , I've unashamedly had the *Diana feeling* at the Centenary of Titanic's one and only voyage that ended on the bottom of the Atlantic.
Happy though to discover the antidote in a Hell thread, which is as good as saying -- "It sank , get over it".

Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :

Compared with some, we seem to have got off quite lightly at worship yesterday.

'Nearer my God to thee' to keep the old myth alive, and the celebrant, clearly overcome with the occasion, blessing us at the end in the name of 'Christ, the Great Shepherd of the deep...' [Eek!]

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I avoided all the Titanic coverage - my radio and TV have off switches.

I used them.
So did I. I just haven't managed to find one for the placards outside newsagents' shops, the advertising posters around and about, the cunningly disguised articles in newspapers that you have to get past the front page to see, various things on the internet or overheard conversations in public places. It's now at the ridiculous stage where there’s some reminder of it on an average of about four times a day.

I've heard atheists make this accusation against Christians. You can't go anywhere without seeing a cross, or a church, or some other reminder of Christianity. It's naff when they bitch about that; it's naff when you bitch about this. Get over it.

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
This is the 160th anniversary of the sinking of HMS Birkenhead. No one makes a movie about it.

Did they sing "Nearer My God to Thee" as the ship sank?

Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

<unfortunate naming tangent>

Dunderheaded naming seems to be inevitable. When a housing estate was built on the site of RAF Hornchurch (a Battle of Britain fighter airfield) some houses were on Bader Walk. Well, he could, but it was pretty crass. I'll let a Mancunian describe the fuss over the naming of the home fan's end of the City of Manchester (now the Etihad) Stadium.

</unfortunate naming tangent>

On the subject of unfortunate names, the recent Julian Fellowes drama about the Titanic featured Peter the Painter, the Latvian anarchist involved in the Siege of Sidney Street. Reading around the subject, I found out that a local housing association
named two buildings after him.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

Fortunately, nothing at church about it. OTOH, the national broadcaster went ape (I know, but the alternative is to use overboard) and the event filled every news bulletin and station announcement. We even heard that the great great grandson of a survivor liked building sandcastles at the beach, keeping alive a link with the sea.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
We even heard that the great great grandson of a survivor liked building sandcastles at the beach, keeping alive a link with the sea.

HOW IS THAT A NEWS ITEM??? seriously. if he joined the coastguard, okay. if he builds ships, all right. even if he became a lifeguard, that's something. but motherfucking SANDCASTLES?!?

some editor somewhere needs to be taken out and shot.

Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :

I think interest in this topic will eventually go down. [Big Grin]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
This is the 160th anniversary of the sinking of HMS Birkenhead. No one makes a movie about it.
Did they sing "Nearer My God to Thee" as the ship sank?

Makes a good story, doesn't it?

I believe it was never confirmed what was the final tune. Or even if 'Nearer my God to thee' was played. It wasn't on the band's playlist. They played rag-time numbers, it seems, to the fleeing passengers. Then right at the end, Wallace Hartley was observed, standing by himself playing the hymn tune 'Autumn', having dismissed the others.

A separate and complementary report says, that while playing on another ship Hartley had told a colleague that should he ever be on a sinking ship, he had always loved 'Nearer, my God, to thee' and would probably play that. I understand 'Autumn' does scan for 'Nearer, my God' so it's plausible.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
I think interest in this topic will eventually go down.

But this thread has buoyed my spirits tremendously!

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
TV programmes, radio programmes, news broadcasts, .... You can't get away from it.

Turn off the fucking television and radio.

There. Fixed that for you.

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
We even heard that the great great grandson of a survivor liked building sandcastles at the beach, keeping alive a link with the sea.
HOW IS THAT A NEWS ITEM??? seriously. if he joined the coastguard, okay. if he builds ships, all right. even if he became a lifeguard, that's something. but motherfucking SANDCASTLES?!?

some editor somewhere needs to be taken out and shot.

Couldn't we just cast him adrift?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
I think interest in this topic will eventually go down.
But this thread has buoyed my spirits tremendously!

It certainly floats my boat.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

Put him on an ice floe, you mean? Sure, whatever floats your boat.

{Ack - x-post with the one-liner king!}

[ 17. April 2012, 00:28: Message edited by: RuthW ]

Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Did they sing "Nearer My God to Thee" as the ship sank?

Never mind "Nearer My God to Thee" or "Autumn", this is what you should listen to.

Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:
they've even re-released the film in 3D.

And super 3D.

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

Bah. They're carrying me out to the Old 100th at my funeral.

Speaking of 3-D, RMS Titanic Inc. (the salvors-in-posession), jointly with National Geographic and James Cameron have released new composite photos of the wreck along with a complete sonar site survey of the entire wreck site. This is actually useful for historic, academic and preservation purposes. Plus they found two sections of the bottom and the missing section around Funnel 3.

Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
....

We probably have Walter Lord who wrote "a night to remember" to thank for a lot of this. His book sort of put the Titanic back on the map when it was published. And it stayed there pretty much ever since.

And Shalamar

Get ready...tonight
Gonna make this a night to remember

A night to remember

[eta: well, mainly the night to remember part.]

[ 17. April 2012, 02:03: Message edited by: duchess ]

Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :

This thread is sinking fast.

Oops! It's gone.

'Crazy Zen'? [Killing me]

Posted by Matariki (# 14380) on :

I lived in Southampton from 84 to 87 and remember a very dignified memorial in a church near the docks.
Watching the news I was surprised to see a passenger crying during the memorial service, this was 100 years later, who would he have known?
Having lived overseas for over a decade now I have come to the conclusion (watching 'home' from afar) that the English disease is nostalgia. Quite what was so wonderful about life in 1912, when the lower orders were left to drown, God alone knows.

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
This is the 160th anniversary of the sinking of HMS Birkenhead. No one makes a movie about it.

Ya, Tunnel vision .

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Matariki:

Having lived overseas for over a decade now I have come to the conclusion (watching 'home' from afar) that the English disease is nostalgia.

Do you miss it?

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

I am very interested in what actually happened to the Titanic. I saw a movie in the early 1950s, which pre-dated A Night to Remember. I never bothered to see a later one. What actually happened is much more interesting than stories people make up about it.

The most recent book I have read, Titanic's Last Secrets, offers strong evidence that the ship sank as quickly as it did because of a major design flaw. It would have sunk eventually, but it should have remained afloat at least twelve hours, which would have given time for rescue ships to arrive and take everyone off.

There were several other problems. The original design specified a certain thickness of steel. The owners wanted to save money, not only on the steel, but also on the fuel required to move the extra weight. This was a mistake. The longer a ship is, the thicker the steel needs to be to keep it from flexing. Until the sister ships Olympic and Titanic were built, no one had had experience with ships that size; no one thought through all the ramifications.

In addition, the steering did not work very well, again because of the size.

Even by the standards of the day, the Titanic was not that safe. Other ships built at that time had double hulls, which meant that if the outer hull was penetrated, the inner hull would usually hold. If there had been a double hull, the iceberg would probably not have sunk the ship.

I have also read a book by James Bisset, who was Second Officer on the Carpathia when it picked up the Titanic survivors. He had the opportunity to talk to the surviving officers and got a very good picture of what things were like.

The topic is fascinating; the movies are silly.

Moo

Posted by Pasco (# 388) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Nobody was particularly bothered about the Titanic in the past few decades.

It could be said i.e. of all the years leading upto 15th April 2012:

Then, It's The 'Anniversaries', Now Is "Centenary*" - ?

[* - i.e. Commercial exploitation necessary to encourage notions about riches yonder - ?]

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

Check out the 1st class before the arrival of guests at my Cathedral here.

I love my Cathedral. Beautiful place. Beautiful people. [Yipee]

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Matariki:
...when the lower orders were left to drown...

If they were men. The survival rate among second and third class women passengers was as great or greater than that of first-class male passengers. They really did operate on a "women and children first" rule.

Posted by Pasco (# 388) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:

The topic is fascinating; the movies are silly.

Moo

Until the centenary many of us locally had barely taken any notice of the event. I was pleasantly surprised at how fascinating the story behind Titanic is and as a family we had treated ourselves to "Lookout: Southampton's Titanic story in song" by a local group of folk singers who had been perfecting their performance for the past two years at various venues. The local mayor who had been to all the Titanic events had considered this by far the best he had been to and worthy of a much wider audience. For this he had received a standing ovation from the packed house at Turner Sims. The 23rd and final song in the story featured the lookout man i.e. Fred Fleet who ended his days in Southampton unable to get a job on a ship and would sell newspapers for a living, eventually committing suicide following his wife's death. How his life and those of the rest of the ship would have changed had they heeded his warning of an iceberg though there wasn't much time to react. Had the keys to cupboard where the binoculars were kept not been accidentally left behind in Southampton, the lookout post would have had sufficient warning and we would have been spared tacky souvenirs sold in shops the world over.

[I would though have missed the superb performance by the "White Star Line-up," who got the thumbs up from the audience. I'm pleased to say, no T-shirts were sold at this event. A CD of the songs was all that was on offer - a reminder of a worthwhile evening out]

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I am very interested in what actually happened to the Titanic. ...

There were several other problems. The original design specified a certain thickness of steel. The owners wanted to save money, not only on the steel, but also on the fuel required to move the extra weight. This was a mistake. The longer a ship is, the thicker the steel needs to be to keep it from flexing. Until the sister ships Olympic and Titanic were built, no one had had experience with ships that size; no one thought through all the ramifications.

I also believe that the steel of the day was not as consistent as it is today, in terms of crystalline structure. That made the plates more liable to buckle and split than they should have been. For what it's worth, the "Lusitania" may have had the same problem which helped it to sink so quickly after being torpedoed (tho' a coal dust explosion may also have been to blame).

There is also the suggestion that closing the watertight doores hastened the ship's demise as, the ever-increasing tilt meant that the water spilled over from one compartment to the other. Counter-intuitively leaving the doors open might have meant that she filled more slowly and kept on an even keel, facilitating evacuation.

New technology often comes with unanticipated risks. For instance, the metal fatigue problems in the early Comet airliners (again, the metal was thin, to save weight as the early jet engines were feeble), the behaviour of water sloshing around in the open car deck on the "Herald of Free Enterprise", the explosions on board empty oiltankers in the late 1960s, even the presence of a very slow-moving lorry at Hixon level crossing after the installation of half-barriers ...

The Comet airliner case is interesting, because Neville Shute had wriotten a novel about just such a problem a year or two before they went into service ... just like the novel about the "Titan" colliding with an iceberg.

[ 17. April 2012, 14:26: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

This gives an interesting breakdown of the stats of survivors by various categories.

'Women and children first' was the precedent. But there is also verbal evidence that on one side of the ship a 'women and children only' rule was being exercised - which explains why some of the boats went off only partially filled. And by the time men could've been loaded into boats (and steerage passengers had made their way up to the boat decks), the boats had gone.

The very unfair result of this (apart from the needless deaths of men and women) additionally was that the men who had been saved were pilloried in the media as cowards. Not least Bruce Ismay himself who, having assisted women and children into the boats while they remained, put himself into the final boat to leave.

The steerage passengers had other problems. Because their accommodation was lower down the ship, there were naturally no nearby boat decks for them at all. And the routes up to the boat decks were complex, and in places gated off.

It was a convention of the time that, when coming into New York, steerage passengers were to be held below, separate from 1st and 2nd class, until they could be dealt with and cleared for fitness to be admitted into the country. To facilitate this, White Star agreed to construct holding gates to prevent steerage passengers from moving outside their own area during disembarkation.

During the crisis, some of these gates were locked and stewards trained in the policy that no-one was to pass, simply stuck with that idea, regardless of the extraordinary circumstances.

Nobody was assigned to guide the steerage folk to the boats - not that there would've been room for everyone anyway; though one steward apparently did just that taking up women and children in relays, until he could do no more.

Altogether, it seems that - apart from the lifeboats fiasco - there actually was no proper evacuation policy, at least with regard to steerage, and barely nothing more for the other passengers. Most crew were simply left to their own devices, with no attention paid to their safety at all. It's clear by the different approaches in filling lifeboats, and the neglect of steerage and crew, that even basic preparation for evacuation had not been properly considered.

Ironically the phrase that gave Titanic its fate-defying title of 'unsinkable' actually was supposed to come from a technical report on her safety features labelling her as 'practically unsinkable'. Incredible that anyone involved with ship construction and marine travel could really believe this!

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
This gives an interesting breakdown of the stats of survivors by various categories.

Going by that he safest thing to be was a female crew member, the second safest thing was to be a seaman ("sailors" as he calls them - but all the crew are sailors but the seamen are the ones trained to handle ships at sea - and so both better able to look after themselves, and needed to handle the lifeboats for the passengers), and the most dangerous thing to be was a male crew member who was not a seaman.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

'Women and children first' was the precedent. But there is also verbal evidence that on one side of the ship a 'women and children only' rule was being exercised - which explains why some of the boats went off only partially filled. And by the time men could've been loaded into boats (and steerage passengers had made their way up to the boat decks), the boats had gone.

The life-boat debacle was also partly down to the fact that had it not been for the heroics of the engineers below decks pumping water out to the last minute then the ship would have sunk in a hour and a half.
It was an imperative that life-boats were lowered and got away quickly , while at the same time not creating a panic. A difficult circle to square and one it's easy for us to chew over in hindsight.

It also seems the chain of command had broken down with the Captain having some sort of mental shutdown , thereby leaving the officers to use their initiative . Murdoch got it right, whereas Lightoller did not.

The men who had been saved were pilloried in the media as cowards. Not least Bruce Ismay himself who, having assisted women and children into the boats while they remained, put himself into the final boat to leave.

Archibald Gracie also assisted in loading all the life-boats right up until the last, yet didn't regard this as a right to grab a seat.
I believe history has been correct in judging Ismay to be the coward he was.

Posted by Lioba (# 42) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I've heard of the Wilhelm Gustloff. I was a student in Germany in the 1950s, and some of the students I met had fled from the advancing Russians. Obviously, they weren't on that ship, but they knew all about it. Apparently it was so crowded that people could not sit down even on the decks; they had to stand shoulder-to-shoulder.

Moo

My partner's mother and all her family missed that boat. At first they were devestated when they realized it when coming to the port. A cousin whom they had met accidentally found them another boat and got safely over the Baltic sea. Because he helped them the cousin survived as well. He had left his army post which was completely destroyed during his absence.

Lioba

Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :

There was a bit of a dilemma for the authorities of the day. Because the ship sank at sea in International Waters where do they bury the survivors?

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
There was a bit of a dilemma for the authorities of the day. Because the ship sank at sea in International Waters where do they bury the survivors?

If they were survivors, they don't need to be buried anywhere.

Moo

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

There was no problem. The recovered bodies were buried in Halifax, Nova Scotia. The White Star Line arranged for the recovery of bodies through Halifax, which was the nearest port with rail connections.

Titanic Burials in Halifax

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
There was a bit of a dilemma for the authorities of the day. Because the ship sank at sea in International Waters where do they bury the survivors?

I expect the survivors were buried wherever they subsequently died....

(0f those who did die, they pretty well had to be buried wherever they made landfall. The White Star line wouldn't pay for the repatriation of any bodies, neither passengers nor crew.)

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
There is also the suggestion that closing the watertight doores hastened the ship's demise as, the ever-increasing tilt meant that the water spilled over from one compartment to the other. Counter-intuitively leaving the doors open might have meant that she filled more slowly and kept on an even keel, facilitating evacuation.

According to Brad Matsen, the author of Titanic's Last Secrets, it appears that the keel separated from the ship before it sank. It was found upside down and in two pieces some distance behind the rest of the ship. The broken metal edges show signs of flexing. Presumably this is why the ship went down so soon.

Moo

Posted by Jigsaw (# 11433) on :

A friend was watching the movie on DVD at home, and said he found it so tedious that by the end he was shouting at the TV screen:"Oh,get on with it and drown, for fuck's sake, damn you!"

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Archibald Gracie also assisted in loading all the life-boats right up until the last, yet didn't regard this as a right to grab a seat.
I believe history has been correct in judging Ismay to be the coward he was.

I honestly don't know why he shouldn't have got into a lifeboat as many men did - under the circumstances that existed. It was the last boat; it had room for him and he stepped in at the last minute, when it was already descending. I understand his taking room in the boat did not displace anyone else. So his cowardice - which is very likely did exist - was harmful to no-one else. I presume, too, his death would not have been particularly beneficial to the world beyond his inheritors.

There were things that - along with others - he was guilty of. Although Titanic had the regulation number of lifeboats, he still launched his company's ship knowing it could never cope with a full evacuation. And the fact that he - along with others - assumed it would never need a full evacuation was a dangerous fault of arrogance for which those people were culpable.

So maybe some people think it's perfectly appropriate that Andrews and Smith did go down with the ship, and so Ismay should have as well. And wasn't it a pity that the marine safety policy drafters weren't there, too; and all the others who were part of the situation that sent an unsafe ship to sea.

But I don't follow that logic. And I don't see where cowardice comes into it, if we're talking culpability.

I agree that in terms of Hollywood and inaccurate scape-goating reporting, it's so much neater and karmic that Ismay should've gone done with his company's ship. Maybe it would've even been natural justice. Those who knew him felt he regretted his decision for the rest of his life, as he withdrew from public life. But I don't think he should be villified for choosing life over death; even if he was motivated from fear.

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
There was a bit of a dilemma for the authorities of the day. Because the ship sank at sea in International Waters where do they bury the survivors?
I expect the survivors were buried wherever they subsequently died....

(0f those who did die, they pretty well had to be buried wherever they made landfall. The White Star line wouldn't pay for the repatriation of any bodies, neither passengers nor crew.)

53 remains brought ashore in Halifax were claimed by families and buried elsewhere. The rest are in three Halifax cemeteries. Some were buried at sea by the Mackay-Bennet, the cable ship that found most of the remains. It is presumed that these were the remains in worst condition.

The White Star Line was goaded into action. The Halifax cemetary plots are cared for a trust account set up by the White Star Line.

Arrangements for Titanic Remains

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I don't think he should be villified for choosing life over death; even if he was motivated from fear.

I absolutely agree! And anybody who disagrees better be damn sure they would've gone down with the ship before they start casting stones.

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
There was a bit of a dilemma for the authorities of the day. Because the ship sank at sea in International Waters where do they bury the survivors?

that joke delivers way better verbally.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jigsaw:
A friend was watching the movie on DVD at home, and said he found it so tedious that by the end he was shouting at the TV screen:"Oh,get on with it and drown, for fuck's sake, damn you!"

Insensitive bastard.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
This is the 160th anniversary of the sinking of HMS Birkenhead. No one makes a movie about it.
Ya, Tunnel vision .

I read the story on line. Dramatic story -- BUT no rich people (seems like stories about rich people attract more attention than about non-rich, we hear names of famous men who put their wives in a lifeboat and went down, we don't hear names of the 3rd class men who did the same), no band playing to the end (rich people have bands and elegance in the face of death), and most important a troop ship is not one "any of us could have been there ourselves" so it doesn't as naturally give "everyone" a sense of identification "that almost could have been me." Unless you are military perhaps. And most of us have no interest in being on a troop ship. An elegant cruise ship -- sure, some friends cruise several times a year, and the ships do their best to feel elegant!

And at some point a historical event become old and pretty much forgotten. But being preserved in song keeps memory alive. Titantic might be forgotten after this year except for the song. I grew up singing the Titanic song, we sang it bouncy which gives it a snide undertone, especially the way we changed verses! "Oh the Good lord raised his toe and said that ship will never go." Couple years ago I swapped verses with a new friend much younger, she knew verses I'd never heard. Point being Titantic is in our camp song repertoire so that's another reason the story attracts followers, it's familiar from childhood.

I know about the Sloop John B and the keeper of the Eddystone Light because someone put them into song. Did anyone write a catchy song about the HMS Birkenhead?

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

quote:
Originally posted by Jigsaw:
A friend was watching the movie on DVD at home, and said he found it so tedious that by the end he was shouting at the TV screen:"Oh,get on with it and drown, for fuck's sake, damn you!"
Insensitive bastard.

It's a film. The actors didn't die. I would probably have had the same reaction - I found 2 minutes of the trailer boring enough not to want to see any more. It's not a documentary, it didn't accurately recreate what happened, and it had Leonardo Di Caprio in it. Just fiction. As such Jigsaw's friend is perfectly free to say what he did.

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

quote:
Originally posted by Jigsaw:
A friend was watching the movie on DVD at home, and said he found it so tedious that by the end he was shouting at the TV screen:"Oh,get on with it and drown, for fuck's sake, damn you!"
Insensitive bastard.
It's a film. The actors didn't die. I would probably have had the same reaction - I found 2 minutes of the trailer boring enough not to want to see any more.

However, you had the good sense not to watch the film, it sounds like. I am puzzled at Jigsaw's friend myself. Not puzzled that s/he didn't enjoy the movie, but quite puzzled that s/he kept watching!

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

quote:
Originally posted by Jigsaw:
A friend was watching the movie on DVD at home, and said he found it so tedious that by the end he was shouting at the TV screen:"Oh,get on with it and drown, for fuck's sake, damn you!"
Insensitive bastard.

oh please. if any movie ever came close to slitting the throat of my compassion for my fellow man, that one was it. and I'm a closet hankie-squeezer.

made me want to ralph.

I did enjoy the moment with the bobbing blue people in the water when I imagined them as a giant, wet whack-a-mole game.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I don't think he should be villified for choosing life over death; even if he was motivated from fear.
I absolutely agree! And anybody who disagrees better be damn sure they would've gone down with the ship before they start casting stones.

Okay, okay . I did not know Bruce Ismay personally , I was not aboard Titanic when it sank. So yes, on that basis I have no right to make judgements, however people around at that time did .
James Cameron didn't pluck his portrayal of Ismay's character out of thin air .

But you know we're talking 1912 . In WW1 that followed two years later men were labelled cowards for choosing not to advance into a hail of machine-gun bullets FFS .
Attitudes and values were very different around that time than they are now . ISTM Bruce Ismay was a much a victim of that, as he was a victim of ill-fated ocean Liner he helped design.

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
...as he was a victim of ill-fated ocean Liner he helped design.

As someone who occasionally has reason to know, not everything gets built to the specifications designed--and the designer is often the last to learn that.

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

Just ask God...

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

Well, Thomas Andrews was the designer. Ismay was co-owner of the White Star Line. I think it's true to say that some of Andrews' specifications were not adhered to. Using steel rivets in an iron hull (or was it the other way round [Paranoid]

???) made the hull plates weaker. And the water-tight compartment doors did not go up to the top of the deck bulkheads, which meant the water could spill over and into the next compartment.

There have been so many stories about Ismay's behaviour that night, that I'm sure Cameron chose the one that served his film the best! That's what Hollywood usually does. [Razz]

To be fair to him, one of the prefaces to the current edition of the Walter Lord book, credits Cameron with being accurate in many points in the film. I have to admit I found his film rather soulless and dreary. But that's just a subjective thing. The documentary on the computer technology was fascinating!

Even Julian Fellowes in his 'Titanic' series on TV couldn't resist misrepresenting the Lord Duff Gordon conversation in the lifeboat about offering $5.00 to the sailors. For dramatic effect, no doubt!

Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

quote:
Originally posted by Jigsaw:
A friend was watching the movie on DVD at home, and said he found it so tedious that by the end he was shouting at the TV screen:"Oh,get on with it and drown, for fuck's sake, damn you!"
Insensitive bastard.
oh please. if any movie ever came close to slitting the throat of my compassion for my fellow man, that one was it. and I'm a closet hankie-squeezer.

made me want to ralph.

I did enjoy the moment with the bobbing blue people in the water when I imagined them as a giant, wet whack-a-mole game.

My favorite part is here (SPOILER ALERT: For the 3 people on earth who have not seen the movie. Don't read the rest of my post either, you 3 people).

"I'll never let go"

I liked this since it provided some comic relief...not saying it was right. Just sort of a little overly dramatic.

But once I stopped observing how Leonardo looked like a 12 year old boy in the movie to me...I saw a stirring example of a real man. Jack puts himself before Rose, to the point of not sharing the floating ice so that she can have life. And then she lets go of his hand literally to move from the ice to get a whistle to blow, moving on with her life, accepting after tears what has happened, so that she can live.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
However, you had the good sense not to watch the film, it sounds like. I am puzzled at Jigsaw's friend myself. Not puzzled that s/he didn't enjoy the movie, but quite puzzled that s/he kept watching!

It was obviously a case of Crucify him! Crucify him!.

Insensitive and sick.

He would make Girard proud.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
However, you had the good sense not to watch the film, it sounds like. I am puzzled at Jigsaw's friend myself. Not puzzled that s/he didn't enjoy the movie, but quite puzzled that s/he kept watching!

They may have been hoping the film might improve...

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Attitudes and values were very different around that time than they are now.

Yes - they were fucked up and wrong. All the more reason why you shouldn't perpetuate such attitudes now.

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Attitudes and values were very different around that time than they are now.
Yes - they were fucked up and wrong.

'Women and children first' is fucked up and wrong? That's a little much, Marvin, even from Mr. Tory.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
'Women and children first' is fucked up and wrong? That's a little much, Marvin, even from Mr. Tory.

Equality cuts both ways.

Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on :

I admit there's many a rug rat I wanted to drown.

Posted by Triple Tiara (# 9556) on :

quote:
Originally posted by comet:
oh please. if any movie ever came close to slitting the throat of my compassion for my fellow man, that one was it. and I'm a closet hankie-squeezer.

made me want to ralph.

I did enjoy the moment with the bobbing blue people in the water when I imagined them as a giant, wet whack-a-mole game.

You may enjoy the sequel a bit more: Titanic 2: Jack is Back

Or perhaps Titanic 2: If Jack had lived

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

I'm afraid this is what I think of whenever I think of Cameron's film!

Part 1 of three if you have the time!

[your coding abilities are weak]

[ 19. April 2012, 11:41: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]

Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I'm afraid this is what I think of whenever I think of Cameron's film!

Part 1 of three if you have the time!

When I click the link i get "Error" which, coincidently is what I think about when I see Cameron's film too.

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I'm afraid this is what I think of whenever I think of Cameron's film!

Fixed it for you.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
Fixed it for you.

I got there first [Razz]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

Thanks for fixing the code!

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
They may have been hoping the film might improve...

In my experience, this only happens with porn flicks.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
And the water-tight compartment doors did not go up to the top of the deck bulkheads, which meant the water could spill over and into the next compartment.

Got a feeling that might of been Ismay's doing as he wanted to maximise passenger space , this meant bringing decks down lower into the ship, compromising the bulkheads . Anyway I'm not getting at Bruce for that cos he can't be blamed for crashing the damn thing.

There have been so many stories about Ismay's behaviour that night, that I'm sure Cameron chose the one that served his film the best! That's what Hollywood usually does.

I'll go along with that . He was made to suffer for his actions , (rightly or wrongly). As was Captain Lord of the California, wrongly accused for the rest of his life over the deaths of 1500 people.
It was also a disgrace that lower ranks, such as the look-out Fred Fleet together with the man at the wheel, were made to feel guilty over what happened

That was the one thing I liked best about Julian Fellows effort . He put the record straight after 100 years when he gave Captain Smith the line ---- ".. and I'll go down in history as the fool that sank her".

God forgive them all .

It's over and out from this Titanic obsessive
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Jigsaw (# 11433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
However, you had the good sense not to watch the film, it sounds like. I am puzzled at Jigsaw's friend myself. Not puzzled that s/he didn't enjoy the movie, but quite puzzled that s/he kept watching!
They may have been hoping the film might improve...

His wife was. His kids were hoping for a bit of gruesome stuff, - awful injuries,blood and so on, having been handcuffed to the sofa and forced to watch it as part of a "family experience".

Posted by art dunce (# 9258) on :

My teenage daughter made me see it in 3D. Gawdawful. She was livid that Rose wouldn't help Jack onto the wood and when we got home she emailed me this.

I hadn't seen the French and Saunders version. Thank you for posting it.

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

I think Simon should change his avatar for the duration.

AtB Pyx_e

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

I see they're closing parts of Liverpool for three days to re-enact the story, with giants.

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

I have a friend who watched the film when originally released, in Liverpool. At the point where those in lifeboats are scanning the bodies for survivors, and shouting "Is there anybody there?" there were shouts from the audience of "Over here, mate!" and resulting hilarity.

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

I have always found the old classic A Night to Remember very moving but hate Titanic, a typical stupid mawkish Hollywood offering.

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

I was on an island-hopping cruise ship in Greece (before that country came to its current grief) and of course had to participate in lifeboat drill shortly after the Titanic movie came out.

The tour leader said "if you aren't enthusiastic about lifeboat drill, you haven't seen Titanic the requisite number of times."

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

That would be once. I'd sand the decks to avoid watching a second time.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I think Simon should change his avatar for the duration.

AtB Pyx_e

One person's poor taste is another person's creative marketing tie-in.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I think Simon should change his avatar for the duration.

AtB Pyx_e

One person's poor taste is another person's creative marketing tie-in.

Maybe it was to make any visiting survivors of the Concordia feel at home?

I mean - a kids' inflatable of a sinking ship? What's next - a sky-diving airliner on flames? A bouncy 10 vehicle pile-up on the M5?

Okay. I laughed at the image. According to my Mum - who lives just up the road from Lough Shore, and told me about this, that was the general response; a kind of eyebrow raising disbelief, and a sigh that says 'have a titter o' wit!'

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Maybe it was to make any visiting survivors of the Concordia feel at home?

I mean - a kids' inflatable of a sinking ship? What's next - a sky-diving airliner on flames? A bouncy 10 vehicle pile-up on the M5?

A rubber scrap metal trough emptying into a plastic vat of molten iron? The possibilities are endless!

The kids I know-- specifically of the 12 year old boy variety-- would be fighting for a place on something like that, come to think of it.

Posted by MiceElf (# 4389) on :

That's it,next time I visit my parents I will demand a first class ticket on the Isle of Wight ferry and take my own inflatable rubber dinghy.
Not sure if in this age of equality that the Women and Children rule still applies.

Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on :

See my sig.

Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on :

Nice pipes, dubious relevance and taste.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

quote:
Steve H: See my sig.

I tried to, but there are too many m's.

Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:

quote:
Steve H: See my sig.
I tried to, but there are too many m's.

Eh?

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

Get a dictionary and check your spelling!

Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on :

Oh, how emmmbarrasing! I'll correct it pronto.

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