Thread: Words that the English Language needs and vice versa Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by BalddudeCrompond (# 12152) on
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Anyone else care to add to the list:
Retrotractive: Adj...appearing handsome or pretty from the rear
Telehotty: A person who appears extraordinarily handsome, from a distance. EG: Did you spot the telehotty? Distance lent enchantment to him!
(edited to change thread title)
[ 29. May 2012, 09:45: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
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quote:
Originally posted by BalddudeCrompond:
Telehotty: A person who appears extraordinarily handsome, from a distance. EG: Did you spot the telehotty? Distance lent enchantment to him!
I've always referred to such a person as a FLR: Fit at Long Range.
Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on
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gruntled: adj.happy, content (opp. of 'disgruntled')
Posted by Silver Faux (# 8783) on
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Asstrous: the opposite of disastrous; something amazing, such as:
A couple buying a new mattress and trying it out together for the first time would be an asstrous event.
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
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'ert', meaning the opposite of 'inert' and 'ertia' meaning the opposite of 'inertia'.
Moo
Posted by Edith (# 16978) on
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My dyslexic son used to describe the dishwasher as the doshwisher. If only.
Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on
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quote:
Originally posted by BalddudeCrompond:
Distance lent enchantment to him! [/i]
I read that as "Distance Lent enchantment" — i.e. an imperative call, with Lent as a noun.
Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on
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Them furriners are way ahead of us in many regards: here is a list of 25 words that don't exist in English but do in other languages.
My favourite is no. 2, the Japanese Arigata-meiwaku: "An act someone does for you that you didn’t want to have them do and tried to avoid having them do, but they went ahead anyway, determined to do you a favor, and then things went wrong and caused you a lot of trouble, yet in the end social conventions required you to express gratitude."
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
Them furriners are way ahead of us in many regards: here is a list of 25 words that don't exist in English but do in other languages.
English is full of words from other languages and I think that defines English; A bucket of the most useful words from other languages. I do like #21: we should remember that when discussing Arabs, Muslims, the Middle East and all that. In the absence of a word for compromise in Arabic it's hardly surprising that it is difficult to reach one!
We could do worse than adopt more widely the German word Weltanschauung, which simply put, means 'World view' but actually means more than that.
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
Them furriners are way ahead of us in many regards: here is a list of 25 words that don't exist in English but do in other languages.
My favourite is no. 2, the Japanese Arigata-meiwaku: "An act someone does for you that you didn’t want to have them do and tried to avoid having them do, but they went ahead anyway, determined to do you a favor, and then things went wrong and caused you a lot of trouble, yet in the end social conventions required you to express gratitude."
The (approximate) Englsih equivalent of that is "do-goodery".
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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My older son, when he was three or four, came up with a good word: "inside-bread", meaning a sandwich made by folding a single piece of bread in half.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
The (approximate) Englsih equivalent of that is "do-goodery".
Or "meddling".
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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Or "my mum"!
Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on
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What's the word for that mood where you feel like talking about your digestive system and bowel movement?
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
What's the word for that mood where you feel like talking about your digestive system and bowel movement?
Activiated. Also known as Jamie Lee Curtis syndrome.
Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on
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I've often suffered from "staircase wit"
Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on
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The German word "jain" (from ja and nein) is excellent in that it means both yes and no. "Was the concert good?", "Jain, good music, but too short a set". It's shorter to say than "yes and no".
"Doch" is another good German word, which doesn't really translate well, I think. It's used when you give a view and someone contradicts it, but you insist in being right, as in "I bought some butter", "No you didn't, it's not in the fridge", "Doch, it's on the table" (as in "No really"). Or it's also used when something is unexpected, like "Liverpool had a bad season but doch won a cup".
"Nie" from Polish sounds stronger to me than the English "no", so I sometimes use it when speaking English.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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German schon can be found in small dictionaries as "already", but it can mean a lot more than that and is often used as syntactic filler which only gives a sentence a certain general slant which is impossible to describe. Some larger dictionaries give a whole list of expressions each with its own translation. an equivalent word also exists in Yiddish, and I am told Jewish speakers in New York have adapted "already" to fulfil the same function. Wise move...
Conversely, there are a number of words in English that I struggle to render into German with anything short of a sentence. "Dodgy" is one example but there are more - which refuse to come to mind at the moment.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
Conversely, there are a number of words in English that I struggle to render into German with anything short of a sentence. "Dodgy" is one example but
can do that one in 1 word: Politiker.
(means politician)
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
I've often suffered from "staircase wit"
I just looked that up, St Gwladys, and it is a very useful expression!
Posted by bib (# 13074) on
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I'd love to have single words in English for the phrases 'the day before yesterday' and 'the day after tomorrow'. German has wonderful single words as I'm sure do other languages.
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
My older son ... came up with "inside-bread" ...
That reminds me of my nephew's expression for lemonade - "buzzy juice" - which I thought was inspired.
Lager or beer was "Grandad's buzzy juice". ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I'd love to have single words in English for the phrases 'the day before yesterday' and 'the day after tomorrow'. German has wonderful single words as I'm sure do other languages.
How about "yesteryesterday" and "tomorrowmorrow"?
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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Another phrase invented by one of my sons was for an unpleasant condition, possibly brought on by too many inside breads or buzzy juices: "squirty bottom".
Posted by Edith (# 16978) on
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In Luganda there are words to distinguish between the different sorts of aunts. Mother's sister, father's sister, mother's brother's wife and so on.
What I would really like is a friendly word to describe the parents of one's sons' or daughters' spouses parents. I've heard 'outlaws' used but I don't like that.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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Part of my life's work is trying to save deserving words, or meanings, falling over the cliffs of oblivion. Many of these come from that linguistic deep freeze which is Irish English - 'forenenst' meaning 'in front of': 'throughother' - slovenly (I was so pleased when I discovered German has durcheinander), 'brave' to mean 'good, well, splendid'.
I am sure English has all the necessary words, just some of them may be down the back of the sofa.
Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on
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In considering the need for words to enter other languages, it is good to try to look at how many words exist in different languages, which is not an easy business due to things like diminutives and local slang. From online searching it seems that it is impossible to know how many words exist in different languages.
Regarding English, estimates range from 250,000 to a million, with most estimates being over 500,000.
For German estimates give 400,000 words, which includes compound words.
Polish gives a maximum of 160,000 words (though that excludes diminutives).
That many English words have entered into German (Computer, last but not least (!), Workshop, Energiser, Training) shows that various contexts bring out an international language. Same with Polish, where there are words like laptop and NGO.
Theoretically the English language is less likely to need loan words. On the other hand it is full of them, words like restaurant, cafe, pizza and bourgeois.
This long-winded answer, should anyone still be reading is to show that with determination words can enter other languages.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
That many English words have entered into German (Computer, last but not least (!), Workshop, Energiser, Training) shows that various contexts bring out an international language. Same with Polish, where there are words like laptop and NGO.
I find it hard to believe that German had to borrow 'workshop' and 'training'! Is that because Germany industrialised after Britain or is 'Workshop' used here in the sense of a glorified meeting with artifacts as an end-product rather than minutes and an action list?
Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on
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quote:
I find it hard to believe that German had to borrow 'workshop' and 'training'! Is that because Germany industrialised after Britain or is 'Workshop' used here in the sense of a glorified meeting with artifacts as an end-product rather than minutes and an action list?
They borrowed "workshop" in the sense of a training session that a company subjects its employees to. Like an anti-sexism workshop or the like. The physical place is "die Werkstatt." Before it borrowed "das Training" I don't think German had a distinction between "practice" and "training."
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
Conversely, there are a number of words in English that I struggle to render into German with anything short of a sentence. "Dodgy" is one example but
can do that one in 1 word: Politiker.
(means politician)
That is an illustrative example, not a definition
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
BTW, another one I haven't managed to adequately translate yet is "fuzzy"
[ 26. May 2012, 15:10: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]
Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on
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Zach's right. I do workshops about, say, conflict management and on history. Same with trainings. In German I am a Trainer. When I do tours I am occasionally called a Guide.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Zach's right. I do workshops about, say, conflict management and on history. Same with trainings. In German I am a Trainer. When I do tours I am occasionally called a Guide.
When I was young, "Training" (in German) was something you did in a sports facility, in business it was called "Ausbildung".
Some of these business-type borrowings happen because English is fashionable, not becasuse there is no existing word. No doubt some will stay, but many are likely to go away again...
[ 26. May 2012, 15:18: Message edited by: doubtingthomas ]
Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on
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It seems vaguely relevant that Germans seemed especially perplexed by the American concept of "warming up" before a game for a newscast about American football. There were multiple, overlong clips of players riding stationary bikes. I imagine German "warming up" for games involves das Bier, oder?
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
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quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
I am told Jewish speakers in New York have adapted "already" to fulfil the same function.
It sort of means "Enough is enough!" as in "All right, already!" = "OK, so stop talking about it and let's get on with it."
Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on
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quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Zach's right. I do workshops about, say, conflict management and on history. Same with trainings. In German I am a Trainer. When I do tours I am occasionally called a Guide.
When I was young, "Training" (in German) was something you did in a sports facility, in business it was called "Ausbildung".
Some of these business-type borrowings happen because English is fashionable, not becasuse there is no existing word. No doubt some will stay, but many are likely to go away again...
Some words are simply contextual. Things like anti-racism work in Germany took their lead from places like America, and even if words could exist, the context is international. Like pizza. I mean, one could say "dough with cheese" or something, but we don't need to be so pure as to make new words. I've often found it strange that Germans will say happy or strange. Turns out that those words are not exactly like glücklich or komisch.
Words migrate all the time. Here in Poland we have the words szlafrok (from the German Schlafrock meaning dressing-gown), as well as granica from Grenze meaning border. There's even szijsegal from Scheissegal meaning "fuck all" (in the context of something having no worth).
English can be fashionable in Germany and Poland (though I know some in Germany who complain about English words being used), but for me it makes sense if words migrate. Like in non-lingual life, one cannot put borders around culture.
Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on
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The French Academy keeps refusing to recognize the cognate "le Weekend," despite the fact that French has absolutely no other way of saying it. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
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quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Zach's right. I do workshops about, say, conflict management and on history. Same with trainings. In German I am a Trainer. When I do tours I am occasionally called a Guide.
When I was young, "Training" (in German) was something you did in a sports facility, in business it was called "Ausbildung".
Some of these business-type borrowings happen because English is fashionable, not becasuse there is no existing word. No doubt some will stay, but many are likely to go away again...
I hate the term 'workshop' being used about what is essentially a talking shop.
In English, a workshop is a place where they make things like cars.
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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Alexei Sayle once defined pretentiousness as "using the word "workshop" in any context other than light ehgineering".
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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I think we should use the word "talkeeting" to describe a meeting that is just an opportunity for people to talk, and will serve no real purpose whatsoever.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
Alexei Sayle once defined pretentiousness as "using the word "workshop" in any context other than light ehgineering".
As one who facilitates workshops for a living I need an alternative that doesn't make my skin crawl. I know why the term is used, but it doesn't make me feel any better.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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"Barkative" for dogs that won't shut up.
It would be useful to have words to describe family members like "maternal aunt" or "female cousin on the paternal side" but English doesn't work that way.
It would also be useful to have ways of describing faces. We can say someone looks intelligent or his eyes are too close together, but half the time you have to fall back on something like "she looks like
[celeb of choice]" to get across what exactly you mean. Saying "has brown eyes and short brown hair" could describe quite a lot of people.
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
Alexei Sayle once defined pretentiousness as "using the word "workshop" in any context other than light ehgineering".
As one who facilitates workshops for a living I need an alternative that doesn't make my skin crawl. I know why the term is used, but it doesn't make me feel any better.
How about the already-existing word "talking-shop"?
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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Another word we need is one for adult offspring ("offspring" itself won't do, because it's not specifically for adults). "Child(ren)" suggests school or pre-school ones, the still-dependent kind, but if one of my adult sons (27 and 35) was a daughter, calling them my children would be possibly misleading
Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
"Barkative" for dogs that won't shut up.
Not so much a new word, but could we restore "yappet"? I remember this from "Call my Bluff" many years ago - it means a small, yappy dog. It's a perfect description.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
Alexei Sayle once defined pretentiousness as "using the word "workshop" in any context other than light ehgineering".
As one who facilitates workshops for a living I need an alternative that doesn't make my skin crawl. I know why the term is used, but it doesn't make me feel any better.
How about the already-existing word "talking-shop"?
Too many syllables
Posted by Molopata The Rebel (# 9933) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I'd love to have single words in English for the phrases 'the day before yesterday' and 'the day after tomorrow'. German has wonderful single words as I'm sure do other languages.
How about "yesteryesterday" and "tomorrowmorrow"?
Well, in West Africa I encountered a version which would certainly fix the future: the-day-after-tomorrow, was simply called "nexttomorrow". Meanwhile, "next week" was called "the upper week"!
Posted by Molopata The Rebel (# 9933) on
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quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Zach's right. I do workshops about, say, conflict management and on history. Same with trainings. In German I am a Trainer. When I do tours I am occasionally called a Guide.
When I was young, "Training" (in German) was something you did in a sports facility, in business it was called "Ausbildung".
Some of these business-type borrowings happen because English is fashionable, not becasuse there is no existing word. No doubt some will stay, but many are likely to go away again...
Using English words conveys a flavour of it own in German-speaking contexts. I was at the after-chill of a trendy sporting event some years ago, when the announcer interrupted the blaring techno-beat to declare that people should not go away, because "es gibt Food, Drinks und Sound". Had he used "Essen", "Getränke" and "Musik", it would probably made people think of Bratwurst, Bavarian Beer and a group of yodellers.
[ 26. May 2012, 22:26: Message edited by: Molopata The Rebel ]
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on
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"Yesterseve" does the trick, even if it it somewhat ungrammatical. A case for an apostrophe mid-word? I can't think of a word for the day after tomorrow though.
Some years ago. there was an item in Punch on the language of another planet. There was a word for the feeling which a boy feels before he first kisses his first girl. We sadly miss such a word in English.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
"Yesterseve" does the trick, even if it it somewhat ungrammatical.
'Yestreen' surely?
'I saw the new moon late yestreen,
Wi' the auld moon in her airm;
And if we gang to sea, master,
I fear we'll come to harm.'
Though the context suggests more 'yesterday evening' rather than 'the eve of yesterday'.
[ 26. May 2012, 22:39: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Some years ago. there was an item in Punch on the language of another planet. There was a word for the feeling which a boy feels before he first kisses his first girl. We sadly miss such a word in English.
Terror. Followed by ecstasy. Followed by terror.
Posted by doubtingthomas (# 14498) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Molopata The Rebel:
quote:
Originally posted by doubtingthomas:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Zach's right. I do workshops about, say, conflict management and on history. Same with trainings. In German I am a Trainer. When I do tours I am occasionally called a Guide.
When I was young, "Training" (in German) was something you did in a sports facility, in business it was called "Ausbildung".
Some of these business-type borrowings happen because English is fashionable, not becasuse there is no existing word. No doubt some will stay, but many are likely to go away again...
Using English words conveys a flavour of it own in German-speaking contexts. I was at the after-chill of a trendy sporting event some years ago, when the announcer interrupted the blaring techno-beat to declare that people should not go away, because "es gibt Food, Drinks und Sound". Had he used "Essen", "Getränke" and "Musik", it would probably made people think of Bratwurst, Bavarian Beer and a group of yodellers.
I doubt it would.
If the announcer had used the usual German words, it would probably not have registered much. Conversely, English used in that way gives people the idea that they are part of something modern, trendy, and exclusive.
Same in business...
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on
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One of the Native Canadian languages has a word that translates, more or less, as "mother-in-law exhaustion." It refers to the condition that results from spending too much time in close proximity to relatives (as in a small cabin for the duration of a Canadian winter). I believe there are specific words for particular forms of kinship, e.g., "cousin exhaustion."
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The French Academy keeps refusing to recognize the cognate "le Weekend," despite the fact that French has absolutely no other way of saying it.
Au contraire*, it may be called le fin de semaine, in fact that's the preferred use in Quebec. Now I can read La Presse (Montreal) without need of Google Translate and have composed an e-mail in which I used the subjunctive, I can call myself bilingual.
Although during my French lessons I was reading a practice memo which was written in dense government French, all of a sudden the word "Leadership" appeared in the middle of the paragraph and struck me senseless. My French teacher replied it was in the dictionary. I responded that the French Academy must have been asleep at the switch.
*On the contrary
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The French Academy keeps refusing to recognize the cognate "le Weekend," despite the fact that French has absolutely no other way of saying it.
Au contraire*, it may be called le fin de semaine
But that's a phrase, not a word. Maybe we could invent a suitable word for our Gallic chums - how about 'Samedimanche'?
Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
Alexei Sayle once defined pretentiousness as "using the word "workshop" in any context other than light ehgineering".
As one who facilitates workshops for a living I need an alternative that doesn't make my skin crawl. I know why the term is used, but it doesn't make me feel any better.
How about the already-existing word "talking-shop"?
That says more about interior-biases and prejudices than anything else.
I do workshops on those subjects, by the way.
It's not always about talking anyway. For example, I'm doing a project on migration in Georgia in a few weeks, and colleagues will do photo and video workshops.
Non-humanities people may not like it, but the word is used extensively across Europe, the English word being used in different languages. Only in Polish is "warsztat" used, though there people get confused when I say that I do them, like when I call myself a "trener" as they think I do sport. Sometimes the English word is the best one.
Posted by Cara (# 16966) on
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The useful Italian word magari means "if it were only thus!" The sort of word you have to hear over and over again in different contexts to get a sense of how it's used.
Modern ways of expressing the same idea in English are "I wish!" and perhaps "In your dreams!" And of course ,"If only!"
But do we have one English word for it?
Cara
Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The French Academy keeps refusing to recognize the cognate "le Weekend," despite the fact that French has absolutely no other way of saying it.
Au contraire*, it may be called le fin de semaine
But that's a phrase, not a word.
So is the English in a sense because it is a compound word. "Le fin de semaine" literally says, "the end of the week", i.e. "week end". The difference is that English joins it together in writing. If the French added hyphens and wrote "le-fin-de-semaine" it would be a compound word too.
An example in the opposite direction are Spanish verbs which are single words in Spanish but translate into phrases in English. For example the word "dámelos" is "give them to me" in English, or "dándomelos" is "(is) giving them to me", etc.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
But that's a phrase, not a word.
I think, to avoid quantities of freshly-picked nits, we go with words = expressions.
Firenze
Heaven Host
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
But that's a phrase, not a word.
I think, to avoid quantities of freshly-picked nits, we go with words = expressions.
Firenze
Heaven Host
If you say so. In that case, we already have an English word for the German "Waldeinsamkeit"; it's "The feeling of being alone in the woods". ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 27. May 2012, 19:26: Message edited by: Steve H ]
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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Yes, I do say so. If you have a problem with the ruling, raise it in The Styx.
Firenze
Heaven Host
Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on
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One beautiful word is fisi'inaua, which is when a wave crashes into a reef, splashes up a mist, through which can be seen a rainbow for a brief moment until the next wave crashes.
Posted by Cara (# 16966) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
One beautiful word is fisi'inaua, which is when a wave crashes into a reef, splashes up a mist, through which can be seen a rainbow for a brief moment until the next wave crashes.
Lovely! What language? A Polynesian one, or similar???
Cara
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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Originally posted by Steve H
Looking through the English-to-other-language half of an Englsih-foreign language dictionary reveals a few. I'm doing it with a French one atm, and discover that the French don't have a single-word equivalent of 'self-employed'. (One might argue that Englsih doesn't either, since that's two words, but two words habitually joined by a hyphen or run together as one count as one, albeit compound, word.)
I'll carry on searching, and provide other examples later. Does anyone else know of any?
And
Two other fairly common English words the French apparently have no single-word equivalent for: 'shoddy' and 'shoestring' (the latter in the colloquial sense of 'derisorily small', when talking about budgets, etc).
Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on
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My cousin, many years ago, spent an evening teaching me a series of Swedish words which describe the amount of coffee refill you want, from 'en skvett' (a fairly generous refil, something over half a cup) right down to 'lil' stackars pellegryt'. They're words I've often wished others knew... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Swedish also has 'lagom', meaning 'just right' - less than perfect, better than OK. Just right in a particularly satisfactory way. I use that too, at least mentally, on a regular basis.
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
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One very useful German phrase is 'wenn schon, denn schon', which means, 'if it's going to be done, it might as well be done now'.
Moo
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
One very useful German phrase is 'wenn schon, denn schon', which means, 'if it's going to be done, it might as well be done now'.
Moo
Or "If it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly"?
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
:
Not really a word, but there are some interesting suffixes in Spanish and Portuguese.
One thing is that these languages don't just have diminutives, they have aumentatives as well. So, a colherinha is a small (tea-)spoon, whereas a colherão is a big (serving) spoon. This really helps to say things succinctively, the aumentative is especially useful when you're calling someone names!
But even better in Portuguese is the suffix -ada, which means "a hit with the aforementioned noun." For example, once I was teasing someone who was playing the guitar (violão) at that moment, so she threatened to give me a violãozada.
I think some of these suffixes would do nicely in English.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
But that's a phrase, not a word.
I think, to avoid quantities of freshly-picked nits, we go with words = expressions.
Firenze
Heaven Host
If you say so. In that case, we already have an English word for the German "Waldeinsamkeit"; it's "The feeling of being alone in the woods".
This is not the same. Sometimes a phrase is the direct equilivant
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Steve H:
But that's a phrase, not a word.
I think, to avoid quantities of freshly-picked nits, we go with words = expressions.
Firenze
Heaven Host
If you say so. In that case, we already have an English word for the German "Waldeinsamkeit"; it's "The feeling of being alone in the woods".
This is not the same. Sometimes, in usage, a phrase is the direct equal of a word. Fin de semana, the Spanish version of the phrase, is the way one says weekend. It is not the equal of the English phrase "The end of the week."
Usage is key.
Sorry for the multiple posts. The edit post timer limit and I had an argument. It won.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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A friend of mine recently invented a word to mean "the bits of twig and branch left lying on the road after a storm" - the word is "brackage". I don't think there was a word for it before.
It might be significant that English has no single word to convey "joie de vivre". I'm no German scholar, but am I right in thinking that they have two? - "Lebensfreude" and "Lebenslust" (which sounds a bit earthier and therefore more fun). Perhaps we could borrow one of theirs?
Posted by Carex (# 9643) on
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I like the Hawaiian word kuleana, meaning an area of responsibility.
"That's your kuleana." isn't just about someone else being responsible, but also implies that they are responsible for things of that type in general, rather than just this specific one. That's a useful distinction.
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
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Yiddish has supplied us with many useful words that don't quite mean the same thing as their English counterparts, e.g.
chutzpah = extreme arrogance
klutz = a clumsy person
kvetsh = to complain chronically
nosh = a light snack
oy veh! = oh my goodness!
shlep = to plod along, often carrying a burden
schmatta = a rag; an old housedress
shmooze = to make small talk
tchatchke = small decorative item, usually cheap
tsuris = trouble, "a cross to bear"
and many others.
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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I never knew "nosh" was Yiddish! It was a word my Dad used, and I don't suppose he knew that it was Yiddish either, but he used, and I use, it, usually in the combined form "nosh-up", to mean a substantial meal, not a mere snack.
Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on
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My father used to be disgruntled, but once the problem was resolved he expected to feel gruntled...
Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on
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The young daughter of a work colleague asked for 'clockles' in her drink. This turned out to be her own invented onomatopoeic word for ice cubes, and it has stayed in the family ever since.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
schmatta = a rag; an old housedress
More familiar with the version 'schmutter'. I see it's defined as meaning 'clothes' in general, whereas I'd thought of it more as dressing (up) - 'We need more schmutter on stage!'
On the same general line, my m-i-l had a useful word - 'bediggled' - meaning fussily decorated. Very useful for describing those B&Bs where every available ledge has a china figurine of a kitten.
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
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Bediggled with tchatchkes. Oy veh!
Posted by Molopata The Rebel (# 9933) on
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I love the expressive German word "schnarcheln" [to snore], Basically, it says it all.
However, the Swiss have perfected it, by applying their throat-cleansing grate to the "ch", making the Swiss-German "schnarchle" about as good as the real thing.
Posted by no_prophet (# 15560) on
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Geefle - pronounced with a hard G and as 'full' on the end. This is as far as I can tell an invented term from my youth which came up after we learned the word "aglet" which is the plastic end of a shoe lace. If someone has heard the word geefle and knows that it comes from somewhere I'd very much like to know.
A geefle is the bump on your shirt, jacket, sweater, jumper etc made by it hanging on a hook.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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My late grandfather had a word for an unhatched bird - a poot. If your hens were free range there was always the chance you'd find a poot in your breakfast egg.
I assumed this was a standard Gaelic word, but it's not in any dictionary I've found, and as far as I know, there's not a word for it in English.
Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on
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A friend from many years ago coined a word, plitch. A plitch is that bump in a path made by a tree root, which causes the happily sauntering person to stumble in a slightly embarrassing way. More widely, it could be applied to any such catch in a path or pavement.
I've used it ever since.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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Another piece of family-speak - a jarbil, meaning the stray thread hanging from the hem of a garment.
Posted by anon four (# 15938) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The French Academy keeps refusing to recognize the cognate "le Weekend," despite the fact that French has absolutely no other way of saying it.
Though fascinatingly (to me!) Québécois uses "le fin de semaine"
Posted by anon four (# 15938) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Originally posted by Steve H
Looking through the English-to-other-language half of an Englsih-foreign language dictionary reveals a few. I'm doing it with a French one atm, and discover that the French don't have a single-word equivalent of 'self-employed'. (One might argue that Englsih doesn't either, since that's two words, but two words habitually joined by a hyphen or run together as one count as one, albeit compound, word.)
I'll carry on searching, and provide other examples later. Does anyone else know of any?
And
Two other fairly common English words the French apparently have no single-word equivalent for: 'shoddy' and 'shoestring' (the latter in the colloquial sense of 'derisorily small', when talking about budgets, etc).
Although you get stuck with things like "travailleur indépendant" or "travailleur à son compte" - I have come across "auto-entrepreneur" for someone working as a subcontractor to another company. I kind of like that.
You're right about shoddy (de mauvaise qualité?) and shoestring (somme modique?).
I wish English could adopt "bof" - "meh" but with Gallic class and penache.
Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on
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Some years ago a young girl who'd sewn a dress for her doll and went to buy fasteners for it (that family were strong on independence for their children) was in tears when she asked for clickies and the saleswoman didn't understand that she wanted press studs/domes – what *do* we call them now?
Other family words – wig-wags rather than windscreen wipers.
Odd that the English prefer short words and the Americans polysyllabic ones: flat/apartment, lift/elevator.
GG
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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Scots has some words that deserve to be more mainstream: a fankle for a tangle, a difficulty; a guddle for a confusion, a state of ineffective activity. Pauchling is very similar to guddling but can be used of motion.
A stooshie is a small stramash - both are types of row/ dispute/ fight.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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I don't know a good English word for sma' boukit; which means an old person who has shrunk through age "She's getting affy sma' boukit."
Marless is another Scots word I use in English. It means "non-matching" as in "Do you know you're wearing marless shoes?" It's just neater to have one word than two.
Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on
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Needed in the English language: A pronoun, and a possessive pronoun, suitable for either gender, when one is speaking in generalities:
Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on
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quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
Needed in the English language: A pronoun, and a possessive pronoun, suitable for either gender, when one is speaking in generalities:
The Engish language already has both.
"Them," "They" and "Their" can be used in the singular when the gender is non-specific.
As in the following grammatically correct sentence:
If someone were to come to my door, they should knock and wait for the door to be answered.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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A single word for the awkward construction 'had had'.
Posted by Morlader (# 16040) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
Needed in the English language: A pronoun, and a possessive pronoun, suitable for either gender, when one is speaking in generalities:
The Engish language already has both.
"Them," "They" and "Their" can be used in the singular when the gender is non-specific.
As in the following grammatically correct sentence:
If someone were to come to my door, they should knock and wait for the door to be answered.
I am with LC on this and I hate the "singular they". In things I proof-read I used to use s/he which is OK but a bit clumsy. His/her is unusable, IMHO. So, yes, an agreed set of sex-neutral singular pronouns, please!
Perhaps worse is the use of "pseudo-pc" labels when the sex is known - as in the toilet/rest room labels noted in a conference centre "Newsmen" and "Newspersons". Or "Mr Smith, Chairperson, said after the meeting ... "
Posted by Steve H (# 17102) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
Needed in the English language: A pronoun, and a possessive pronoun, suitable for either gender, when one is speaking in generalities:
The Engish language already has both.
"Them," "They" and "Their" can be used in the singular when the gender is non-specific.
As in the following grammatically correct sentence:
If someone were to come to my door, they should knock and wait for the door to be answered.
Back in the early 70s, I wrote to 'Peace News', of which I was then a regular reader, proposing 'un' and 'uns' for the purpose, and my letter was published, but it didn't catch on. Nowadays, I use 'them', 'they' and 'their', which don't agree as to number, if you're talking about a single person, but 'he' and 'his' don't agree as to gender, if you're talking about a hypothetical person of either sex, and, language being fluid and not perfectly logical, if 'them', 'they' and 'their' become commonly accepted as gender-neutral, singular pronouns, then that's what they are.
[ 01. June 2012, 09:29: Message edited by: Steve H ]
Posted by Morlader (# 16040) on
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Well, I suppose there were similar discussions when "you" and "your" were replacing "thee" and "thine"; I can't find a thread on it, though!
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Morlader:
Well, I suppose there were similar discussions when "you" and "your" were replacing "thee" and "thine"; I can't find a thread on it, though!
That was different. "Thee' was used for family members and close friends, and also for inferiors. A nobleman who was on trial in the sixteenth or seventeenth century complained about being addressed as 'thou'. He said that even though he was on trial, he was still entitled to be addressed with the respect due his rank.
Moo
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
"Thee' was used for family members and close friends, and also for inferiors.
Hence the old Yorkshire admonishment to an overly-familiar child, "don't thee tha' them as tha's thee, lad"
Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
"Doch" is another good German word, which doesn't really translate well, I think. It's used when you give a view and someone contradicts it, but you insist in being right, as in "I bought some butter", "No you didn't, it's not in the fridge", "Doch, it's on the table" (as in "No really"). Or it's also used when something is unexpected, like "Liverpool had a bad season but doch won a cup".
So when I was introduced to someone's cousin from Germany, and my memory came up with 'Ich kann keine deutsch' and she replied 'Doch' or maybe 'Doh' with an encouraging smile – was she telling me that I was doing all right? Or what?
GG
Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on
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Indeed. She was saying that you know more than a little German.
Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on
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quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Not really a word, but there are some interesting suffixes in Spanish and Portuguese.
One thing is that these languages don't just have diminutives, they have aumentatives as well. So, a colherinha is a small (tea-)spoon, whereas a colherão is a big (serving) spoon. This really helps to say things succinctively, the aumentative is especially useful when you're calling someone names!
But even better in Portuguese is the suffix -ada, which means "a hit with the aforementioned noun." For example, once I was teasing someone who was playing the guitar (violão) at that moment, so she threatened to give me a violãozada.
I think some of these suffixes would do nicely in English.
This is true. I'll give the Spanish counterparts to LeRoc's Portuguese examples:
A cuchara is a spoon. A cucharita is a small (tea-)spoon, whereas a cucharón is a big spoon. The -ón ending also changes cuchara from a feminine word to a masculine one.
In Spanish (or at least Latin American Spanish) not only can one use aumentatives, one can keep adding them for description or emphasis (and sometimes humor). So a cuchara is a spoon, a cucharón is a big spoon, but a cucharonón is a very big spoon, a cucharononón is a very, very big spoon, and so on, and so on.
On can do the same with diminutives, so a cucharita is a small spoon, a cucharitita is a very small spoon, a cucharititita is a very, very small spoon, and so on. If I wanted to I could say something like cucharititititititititititititita if the spoon was that tiny.
Spanish also has the -ada suffix that Portuguese has, and it can also mean "a hit with the aforementioned noun". So there are words like guantada, a punch in the face, that comes from guante (glove) + -ada.
But in spanish -ada can have some other meanings like an action or state or event relating to the aforementioned noun so if I combined guitarra(guitar) with -ada the result guitarrada would sound to Spanish-speakers like "music that's being played with guitars" or maybe "a gathering of guitarists" or something being done with guitars. If I wanted to say I hit someone with a guitar I might say I gave them a guitarrazo, from guitarra + -azo, another suffix similar to -ada.
Sometimes on can also add certain prefixes and suffixes to the same word at the same time. That's how one gets the name for the Mexican dish enchilada (en- + chile + -ada).
Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on
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I feel like English misses quite a few relation type words. I need a word which says "my son's parents-in-law" more succinctly. "Co-grandparents" kinda works, but didn't before we became grandparents.
Surprisingly (to me) Dutch doesn't have a distinct word for cousin, it just uses the same words as for nephews and nieces.
Posted by Edith (# 16978) on
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Grand- in- laws does nicely
Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on
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Sounds like you remember it well, Pete C!
Ed for spelling. Unfortunately.
[ 02. July 2012, 11:52: Message edited by: St Everild ]
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
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I'd like to have a translation in my language of the English expression 'rise to the occasion'. It's so beautiful, and it conveys so much.
Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on
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We always used 'outlaws'
Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on
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Oops I missed out the quote - it must be my bedtime
quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
I feel like English misses quite a few relation type words. I need a word which says "my son's parents-in-law" more succinctly. "Co-grandparents" kinda works, but didn't before we became grandparents.
We always use 'outlaws.'
Posted by Lioba (# 42) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
It seems vaguely relevant that Germans seemed especially perplexed by the American concept of "warming up" before a game for a newscast about American football. There were multiple, overlong clips of players riding stationary bikes. I imagine German "warming up" for games involves das Bier, oder?
Most unfortunately it doesn't include beer ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
The German word for warming up is "Aufwärmen" and I remember the concept very well from sports lessons at school.
Posted by Lioba (# 42) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
One very useful German phrase is 'wenn schon, denn schon', which means, 'if it's going to be done, it might as well be done now'.
Moo
Not just now, but gracefully and generously.
Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on
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Long long ago, in the pre-Circus days, I remember Eutychus starting a brilliant game where one player would state the name of a town or village and the next player would imagine that place-name was an "ordinary" word and would make up a definition for it. I still use one of those words, though not in general conversation, of course.
I think it was Euty himself who played the word "Inverary". I defined it as "As close to a matching pair as to pass as a matching pair, even though they're not really". So an Inverary pair of socks would both be black socks but close examination would reveal that one was longer than the other or a slightly different shade of black.
So, on a typical school morning, the Smudgelet might wear odd socks, a pair of socks, or, most often, an Inverary pair.
Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on
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I've resurrected this game in the circus.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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Wasn't there a book - 'The Meaning of Liff'?
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