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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The Church of England is Fantastic!!! - A positive, appreciative and thankful thread.
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
The CofE 'Terminal Decline' thread prompted this, as well as often hearing whingers whingeing that the CofE is in terminal decline...
Cobblers I say to thee! The Church of England is in rude health and those of us in Communion with the See of Canterbury should be grateful for the CofE because:
Tradition: You can be so high that you've got a Nosebleed and still be a valued and respected Brother in Christ
Evangelicals: You can be so 'led by the spirit' that you wander about dropping rose-petals on strangers to evangelise and still be loved and cherished
Liberals: You can take The Guardian so seriously that you think Nick Clegg is a sensible man and still be valued and affirmed
Bishops: You can love a Purple frock, and listen or not depending on your mood.
Gay people: In some (at least) CofE churches, you can be Gay and welcomed, affirmed and loved.
Women: You can be a Woman and called to service. We've got female clergy, often of the highest calibre and affirm the leadership of women. ...The CofE just needs a spot of Machiavellian skulduggery to get the Women Bishops measure through...
Also: You can disagree with any of the above and still be in communion.
Shock Horror - Members of the Body of Christ disagree with each other and still they're part of the same body.
Identity: You can be Catholic and Reformed and so get to annoy and confuse every other denomination there is.
As for “English Shinto” © ken - Shipoffools.com, I'm having a T-Shirt printed with The Church of England official logo across the chest to wear proudly as a statement of my Englishness!
Q: Does no-one else appreciate the CofE, even if not as floridly as me?
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) We're surely a nation of whingers! Perhaps the diversity you spell out gets everyone to exercise their whingeing muscles equally within the C of E.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Cobblers I say to thee!
So say I.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Sir Pellinore
Quester Emeritus
# 12163
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Posted
Perhaps at least two of you should now burst into a rousing rendition of "Land of Hope and Glory" (in spiritual key ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ). Raptor Eye appears to have reservations.
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Well...
Posts: 5108 | From: The Deep North, Oz | Registered: Dec 2006
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I s'pose another indication of how wonderful the CofE is that whingers like me can still whinge about it on these boards and yet give you a thumbs up on this this counter-thread ...
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Both things are valid. At one and the same time.
Hmmm ... there's something quite Chalcedonian about that ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
Choral Evensong. That's all I have to say.
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In the Latin south the enemies of Christianity often make their position clear by burning a church. In the Anglo-Saxon countries, we don't burn churches; we empty them. --Arnold Lunn, The Third Day
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Shire Dweller. From a Corieltauvus nay Hwiccian if not sundry Mercian, THANK YOU! Well said. Needed to be said. Got my mind right. And thank you Gregory the Great for sending Augustine to us Saxons after we'd driven the people of SS. Alban, Julius and Aaron (including the Corieltauvi) west.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Shire Dweller:
Tradition: You can be so high that you've got a Nosebleed and still be a valued and respected Brother in Christ
Women: You can be a Woman and called to service. We've got female clergy, often of the highest calibre and affirm the leadership of women. ...The CofE just needs a spot of Machiavellian skulduggery to get the Women Bishops measure through...
Q: Does no-one else appreciate the CofE, even if not as floridly as me?
How's that then, unless by 'high' you just mean 'dripping in lace', without any actual adherence to Catholic doctrine?
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
All Saints Margaret Street.
In general or at least IME the rumours of the imminent demise of the Church of England are greatly exaggerated.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
All Saints Margaret Street.
Lutheranism with a decent choir...
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Ahleal V
Shipmate
# 8404
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
All Saints Margaret Street.
In general or at least IME the rumours of the imminent demise of the Church of England are greatly exaggerated.
Lietuvos, I love ASMS. It's where I encountered incense, Marianism, the Pange Lingua and all sorts of other wonderful things. I'm even a Friend of the place. It's the CoE as I think best and I love it.
But, I'll be painfully honest. When I was about in 2005-7 (when ASMS had a rather...extreme curate) the place was packed. Full to the rafters. You had to arrive very, very early on festivals to get a seat.
Nowadays, there seem to be far fewer families, and the place is never as packed as it was. Whilst there is the odd occasional young spike *cough* the congregation, most of them are pretty elderly. [I was there for Holy Week this year.]
x
AV
[ 16. July 2012, 00:14: Message edited by: Ahleal V ]
Posts: 499 | From: English Spires | Registered: Aug 2004
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
Actually, I'm not at St Magnus Martyr, nor am I any longer in Oxford...
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ahleal V:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
All Saints Margaret Street.
In general or at least IME the rumours of the imminent demise of the Church of England are greatly exaggerated.
Lietuvos, I love ASMS. It's where I encountered incense, Marianism, the Pange Lingua and all sorts of other wonderful things. I'm even a Friend of the place. It's the CoE as I think best and I love it.
But, I'll be painfully honest. When I was about in 2005-7 (when ASMS had a rather...extreme curate) the place was packed. Full to the rafters. You had to arrive very, very early on festivals to get a seat.
Nowadays, there seem to be far fewer families, and the place is never as packed as it was. Whilst there is the odd occasional young spike *cough* the congregation, most of them are pretty elderly. [I was there for Holy Week this year.]
x
AV
A curate who I'm afraid went to the Ordinariate after he'd left ASMS to be vicar of a CofE parish in Kent (or was it Surrey - I think the former). In any case, things are more back to normal at ASMS and serving there this past Jubilee weekend I found it as wonderful as ever. Anyway, whatever is left in our estate upon my and my partner's deaths is going to ASMS.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
Did Fr ****'s departure reduced attendance?
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
I don't know this to be the case. It's the implied contention, I would think, of the poster to whom I was responding.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
Sorry, I didn't mean that to be in any way triumphalist (but I see how it could appear as such), it's just that I knew the priest in question when he was in Kent (indeed I was nearly his Curate) and I'm pleased to hear that he was popular there too.
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
Sorry, I didn't mean that to be in any way triumphalist (but I see how it could appear as such), it's just that I knew the priest in question when he was in Kent (indeed I was nearly his Curate) and I'm pleased to hear that he was popular there too.
The priest in question did a lot for ASMS while he was there. I'm not sure that retrospectively a priest who subsequently departs for another communion is such a good thing for a parish -- it tends to put such a cleric's personal charisma in a rather different light. However, that's not what this thread is supposed to be about. I've been associated with ASMS for the last 15+ years in one sense or another, and in my observation the parish has always had a lively, vibrant presence both locally and in the CofE, if not indeed within the Anglican Communion. It's survived other "interesting" curates in years past, as well.
[ 16. July 2012, 02:27: Message edited by: Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras ]
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Shire Dweller:
The CofE 'Terminal Decline' thread prompted this, as well as often hearing whingers whingeing that the CofE is in terminal decline...
Cobblers I say to thee! The Church of England is in rude health and those of us in Communion with the See of Canterbury should be grateful for the CofE because:
Tradition: You can be so high that you've got a Nosebleed and still be a valued and respected Brother in Christ
Evangelicals: You can be so 'led by the spirit' that you wander about dropping rose-petals on strangers to evangelise and still be loved and cherished
Liberals: You can take The Guardian so seriously that you think Nick Clegg is a sensible man and still be valued and affirmed
Bishops: You can love a Purple frock, and listen or not depending on your mood.
Gay people: In some (at least) CofE churches, you can be Gay and welcomed, affirmed and loved.
Women: You can be a Woman and called to service. We've got female clergy, often of the highest calibre and affirm the leadership of women. ...The CofE just needs a spot of Machiavellian skulduggery to get the Women Bishops measure through...
Also: You can disagree with any of the above and still be in communion.
Shock Horror - Members of the Body of Christ disagree with each other and still they're part of the same body.
Identity: You can be Catholic and Reformed and so get to annoy and confuse every other denomination there is.
As for “English Shinto” © ken - Shipoffools.com, I'm having a T-Shirt printed with The Church of England official logo across the chest to wear proudly as a statement of my Englishness!
Q: Does no-one else appreciate the CofE, even if not as floridly as me?
Amen, Lord have mercy.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
In this land it is pretty much hated and envied by all other denominations, not high enough, low enough, sound enough, forever bickering like some dystopian Waltons. Its clergy are weird, its laity not much better. And yet there it is huge, everywhere and able to call the common people better that they ever can, just by being there.
Some benevolent behemoth that stumbles on while outrageous stones are slung too often by our brothers and sisters. Yet at every Selection Panel I can guarantee half a dozen who have left other denominations as they mature spiritually begging to join the good old despised C of E. Why? I ask them, structure, maturity of leadership and being more than one strand while holding all (well most) strands together, which just reflects God more in its mess than pretty much everything else.
Full of beauty and too often vileness, doing so much left handed good that the right hand never sees. Truly wonderful, shame on you who call that which is good evil. It is Saving the ordinary in ordinary ways. Like it saved me.
AtB Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Not only does it do all that for those who are members of and attend it, but as the Established Church, it's there for all of the 50 million people in England.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Cara
Shipmate
# 16966
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Posted
This is excellent--a thread burgeoning with positivity! I love it!
I do appreciate the C of E, though my first-hand experience of it as a participant isn't extensive yet--I grew up in England as a Catholic and came to the Anglican Communion via the Episcopal Church in the USA. I'm now (rather feebly) in the C of E's Diocese of Europe.
As I've said in the thread about the authority of the Catholic Church, I came to the Anglicans because of the communion's wide welcome (especially in TEC and C of E) and its many-mansioned aspect, as evidenced in the OP.
I feel it allows more space for the mystery of God and of the Christian life, without trying too hard to define and to legislate.
I also love its stance between (Roman) Catholics on the one hand, and more extreme Protestants on the other--something I never understood when growing up a Catholic and gathering that the C of E and everyone else were all "Protestants" lumped together in an indistinguishable clump of wrongness!
The famous via media is, I guess, what I'm acknowledging here.
Thanks for reminding us of the positives, Shire Dweller!
cara
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Pondering.
Posts: 898 | Registered: Feb 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Isn't it possible that the C of E is both fantastic, and in terminal decline? I don't see that these two things are incompatible at all. Human history is littered with things which were both, errm, like, Spangles.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cara:
This is excellent--a thread burgeoning with positivity! I love it!
Well, it's sending me into insolin shock. This is Purgatory, and I don't see a lot of debate here. Off to All Saonts with you, where folks can stand this kind of thing...
--Tom Clune, Purgatory Host
[ 16. July 2012, 12:01: Message edited by: tclune ]
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This space left blank intentionally.
Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Welcome to AS where we do things rather differently - if you wish to be negative then the place for that is the other thread in Purg. We are not great fans of snark here, unless we are the ones doing it!
WW
All Saints Host
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I can't speak for non-English Anglicans (or nobody actually apart from myself) but it's like the English weather. We love moaning about it and love the opportunity to escape to Mediterranean sun or even Scottish frost from time to time. But generally it suits us just fine: not too hot, not too cold, gentle and nurturing.
What many of us never do, though, is appreciate the breadth of the C of E other than in theory. Lay people tend to settle in one parish and become used to its traditions; clergy generally tend not to move too far outside their liturgical/theological comfort zones. Bishops and archdeacons get the chance to experience all sorts and conditions of parishes and worship styles; and that privilege eventually comes to those of us retired priests who get called on to officiate in all sorts of places.
There are struggling congregations of twenty or thirty mainly elderly and mainly female saints, who have no clue about liturgy and can't sing in tune, but who love the Lord and their neighbours. There are eclectic gatherings of spiky young men, dreamy bohemian artists, working-class mums who are drawn by incense and a deep sense of God's presence in the Blessed Sacrament. And there are respectable Sunday-suited men and women who stand to attention at the Creed (and maybe even more so at the National Anthem).. and even they are God's children. Not to mention the churches packed to the doors with young families every week because they are in the catchment area for a 'good' church school.
Of course tidy-minded people will prefer tidy churches where everyone knows what to do and believe. But if all the tidy-minded are so neatly filed away, what about the rest of us? We need the C of E and we need it to continue to be a glorious muddle.
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
In the 1970s, it was rather popular amongst youth groups to declare the Church of England to be dead and to encourage young people to join the housechurches instead. But, 40 years later, the CofE is still lumbering on like a mighty tortoise, while many of those housechurches have given up the ghost. And, like Pyx_e says, many of those former youth leaders, if they are still in the church at all, have become (almost) establishment figures in the CofE.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Thank you for this thread. As I've stated elsewhere on the Ship I am currently fed up with the CoE and its hierarchy. And yet I still feel a love for it and feel hurt when people make negative comments about it. It may have hurt me but it remains my mother. I can't conceieve ever being any other sort of Christian (in fact I have trouble understanding why the rest of you don't convert).
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
I sometimes feel I have to almost apologise for being part of an Anglican (Church in Wales, not Church of England) church when in discussion with those of a Pentecostal disposition, but yes, I thank God for the church whose family I'm part of, and the fact that it's probably one of the livelier churches in our area.
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
Posts: 3333 | From: Rhymney Valley, South Wales | Registered: Jan 2009
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
We need the CofE - just in case!
The CofE's got the money to keep small churches open in areas that are deemed to be important. In the Nonconformist churches, if a congregation can't pay its way, then that's it - finito. Meanwhile, the newish charismatic-type churches rely on maintaining high levels of dynamism and enthusiam. Once those start to drop, they often struggle to keep people's interest, and they start to disintegrate. But the CofE has the finances, the heritage and the structures to keep things going on an even keel regardles of the energy levels. It's part of the woodwork.
It seems to me that the CofE and the other denominations or movements all have a mutual vested interest in each other's continued existence. The CofE in particular creates a kind of diffusive Christianity from which the more evangelical churches can get their coverts. And at the other end of the process, Nonconformists whose chapels have closed, and ex-evangelicals who've grown tired of spiritual excitement, can all return to the CofE.
If institutionalisation is inevitable in Christianity, and people tell me that it is, then there needs to be a church like the CofE. So I'm thankful that it's there.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Are you saying that if it wasn't there, SvitlanaV2, we'd have to invent it?
I'd miss the CofE if anything happened to it ...
I've said to Orthodox and others that I hope God reserves a place in heaven for change-ringing campanology in the English style and for Choral Evensong in a facsimile model country parish church - perhaps some kind of Platonic 'original' for some of those we still have dotted around ...
And, of course, somewhere where we can sing 'The Day Thou Gavest ...' as the evening light slants through the stained glass windows ...
Sadly, it may only be in heaven that some contemporary Anglicans get to experience such delights ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Alas, only too true in so many places. But worth waiting for. And I for one can, in all seriousness, think of nothing more Heavenly.
I remember years ago coming back from Evensong at an historic but by then inner-suburban parish church at the same time as my housemate came back from evening Mass at the RC place opposite it:
'Jolly Evensong?'
'Yes, thank you. We sang 'The Church's One Foundation' and 'The Day Thou Gavest, Lord, is Ended.'
'Hmph. We had 'Colours of Day' and 'I See the Sunrise'.
One up to the CofE, I thought.
[ 16. July 2012, 20:14: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Thank you for this thread. As I've stated elsewhere on the Ship I am currently fed up with the CoE and its hierarchy. And yet I still feel a love for it and feel hurt when people make negative comments about it. It may have hurt me but it remains my mother. I can't conceive ever being any other sort of Christian (in fact I have trouble understanding why the rest of you don't convert).
I noted this, and I would like to point out to all those who wonder why Latin Catholics stay in the Church (as flawed as it is). We feel much the same way.
My childhood spirituality was formed by the Church of England in Canada and, for that, I owe it a debt. But for nearly 45 years, for better for worse, my home has been elsewhere.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Full of beauty and too often vileness, doing so much left handed good that the right hand never sees. Truly wonderful, shame on you who call that which is good evil. It is Saving the ordinary in ordinary ways. Like it saved me.
Like it saved me
God be Praised for the C of E
quote:
Originally posted by Cara:
The famous via media is, I guess, what I'm acknowledging here.
God be Praised for the via media.
And God be Praised for all who post here from every tradition in and out of the C of E that can see its, not greatness or superiority, but its goodness
And God be Praised for the Clergy of the CofE
There are some nutters, of course, but most are genuine, nurturing, discerning, wise and kind* who want everyone to read what God has written on their heart.
That may make me sound like a Cassock Chaser, but I dont care. The CofE is fabulous.
*And I indeed did embarrass our Vicar here with such sentiments in a short prayer after PCC this evening.
....Its just a shame there aren't any single lady vicars who need a toy-boy round here.
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Are you saying that if it wasn't there, SvitlanaV2, we'd have to invent it?
I was going to say that, but thought better of it! In a world of institutionalised religiosity, a church like the CofE would presumably come into being naturally, so it wouldn't need to be 'invented' as such.
I went to a friendly Anglican church for an ecumenical service on Sunday evening. I reflected that the CofE in its MOTR guise is a good default church. These churches seem to attract a wide range of 'types', so perhaps one doesn't have to worry so much about fitting in. Speaking for myself, I'd have to moonlight elsewhere sometimes. I don't know if that's frowned on.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Shire Dweller
Shipmate
# 16631
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Posted
Moonlighting elsewhere is not frowned on. Its positively encouraged.
I do it quite a lot! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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Right around the Wrekin
Posts: 77 | From: Shropshire | Registered: Sep 2011
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
'Twould be easier if everybody didn't have their main services at the same time!
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Liturgylover
Shipmate
# 15711
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ahleal V:
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
All Saints Margaret Street.
In general or at least IME the rumours of the imminent demise of the Church of England are greatly exaggerated.
Lietuvos, I love ASMS. It's where I encountered incense, Marianism, the Pange Lingua and all sorts of other wonderful things. I'm even a Friend of the place. It's the CoE as I think best and I love it.
But, I'll be painfully honest. When I was about in 2005-7 (when ASMS had a rather...extreme curate) the place was packed. Full to the rafters. You had to arrive very, very early on festivals to get a seat.
Nowadays, there seem to be far fewer families, and the place is never as packed as it was. Whilst there is the odd occasional young spike *cough* the congregation, most of them are pretty elderly. [I was there for Holy Week this year.]
x
AV
I went to a Festival there last summer and arrived 5 minutes late and claimed the last seat. I would agree that the average age has gone up a bit in the last 4 years!
Posts: 452 | From: North London | Registered: Jun 2010
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
Yes, rumours of our demise in the Anglican Church are greatly exaggerated, as is the pervasive notion that Christianity is in decline and breathing its last.
Gibbons, in his Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire estimated that by the end of the second century after Christ the number of Christians in the Roman world was somewhere around 1 in 20. Other historians have argued that it was far greater in the eastern part than the western part, so up to 1 in 9 would have been more accurate for a large part of it.
Today, with 7 billion people in the world, somewhere between 2 and 2.5 billion are described as Christian. I'm not that great at maths but it would seem that the percentage is now about 1 in 3.
I realize this includes a huge number of 'nominal' Christians. I realize that the number of those not Christian, or who have never heard the gospel story, is mind bogglingly large (compared to the 190 million in Roman times who were not Christian) but actually it's not all doom and gloom, people. If anyone can understand both the beauty and the horror of being church it's us Anglicans.
So get a grip.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
The Diocese of Exeter is currently in the news for saying it is struggling financially. BUT this is against a backdrop of the numbers attending going UP. So some quite positive news, then!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Banner Lady
Worldwide Christianity may be in good health, but this thread is about the CofE, in England. I'm not sure it's wise to extrapolate from one to the other. Also, one can be thankful for and appreciative of the CofE yet still concerned about its future!
When I'm an old lady, there might still be an Anglican church for me to go to if I'm living in England, even if the churches I'm more familiar with have closed. That's something to be thankful for.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Ye Churche of Engla~de, is yt not i~ seriouse decli~e?
Abp Reginald Pole.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
one can be thankful for and appreciative of the CofE yet still concerned about its future!
When I'm an old lady, there might still be an Anglican church for me to go to if I'm living in England, even if the churches I'm more familiar with have closed. That's something to be thankful for.
Where I live, the Anglican Church is usually the last place in any rural town to close. The bank may have gone, the post office might be shut, the school was deserted long ago, but still the church hangs on. If it's dying then it ain't gonna go quickly.
That, and the pub.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Banner Lady
I don't think anything about church life happens quickly. 'Terminal decline' suggests a gradual process, not a switch suddenly being turned off.
Where I disagree with the phrase 'terminal decline', however, is that it assumes we would know what the end point would look like. I don't think that's clear at all. There are countries even more secularised that ours that still have functioning, if very poorly attended, 'state' churches, and in some of those countries, the secular state pays for the upkeep of those churches. So it would be inaccurate to say that the RCC or the Lutherans have completely disappeared.
I can't see the CofE disappearing, but it may change in form and purpose. To many this would look like a decline - but others might see an opportunity for rebirth.
It's very positive that the CofE has maintained a presence in the villages you mention. I do know of some inner city Anglican churches that have closed, but far fewer than those belonging to the Nonconformists.
What could happen in the future is that there might be far more ecumenical partnerships. I suppose there are pros and cons to that.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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