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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Canadians get robocalls too!
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Soror Magna
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# 9881
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Posted
Elections Commissioner confirms robocalls investigation underway - 31,000 "contacts" from citizens to be reviewed
Prime Minister Harper played parliamentary and constitutional games to get his way when he led a minority government. The Con-servatives put the country back in the red; they've turned their backs on the science of climate change and Kyoto commitments; they think they know how to run nuclear reactors; they're lying about CPP / OAS; they're constantly chipping away at Medicare; they've completely blown relations with Aboriginal Canadians; they push fracking and tar sands development regardless of the environmental disasters they cause; and every now and then a Jurrasic-era Con brings up abortion or same-sex marriage, again making us wonder what they would do if they thought they could get away with it; Well, now we know: Harper and his Con-servatives would and did do anything to get their majority, including lying and cheating. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Do we have to wait until October 19, 2015 to get rid of them? When will Harper go to Rideau Hall and admit his government is illegitimate? Will Parliament forms a new, probably coalition, government or will he call yet another fucking election (at least Sober Preacher's Kid will get a gig!)? And looking long-term, is this Canada's Watergate moment? Because this is bigger and uglier than patronage or sponsorship or travel expenses or Senate appointments or spending too much on advertising or whatever. This is directly and deliberately tampering with our electoral system, misleading voters, and stealing an election. Heck, that's bigger than Watergate itself. OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Thanks for the thought, Olivia. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Though I have joined the NDP so my days as a poll official are probably behind me. Elections Canada staff firmly believe in non-partisanship.
I watched Question Period yesterday, it was rowdy as expected. Harper personally replied that these complaints were simply whining from sore losers. From the NDP? Nonsense.
We had a nigh-on miracle bagging 54 seats in Quebec. If we had bagged 10 seats we would have been ecstatic, 54 was akin to political fiction. We bumped off the Liberals as Official Opposition. We didn't lose, thank you. Don't worry Prime Minister, we're coming for you soon enough. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
But these accusations are serious. Very serious. I cannot remember the last time we had such a serious accusation of electoral irregularity in Canada. It has been generations. As Augustine the Aleut once said, Canadian elections are delightfully boring.
Harper has been trying to mock the accusers and ridicule the accusations. The problem is the accusers are 70 and 80 year olds who are above reproach. They didn't even realize something was wrong until later. Canadians will tolerate many things from government but they will not tolerate electoral fraud. The polls on on the Globe & Mail and CBC show that 90% of people think there is something substantial behind these allegations, that there is fire under this smoke. The comments section on the Globe has exploded.
Harper is in very dangerous territory, this is the one thing that could cost him his credibility with much of his own base. He is being partisan while he needs to be seen to be honest and compliant.
This could blow up in his face.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
And about time, too!
They've been in power for long enough that any mention of the Sponsorship thing is irrelevant, no matter how much they try.
And tampering with elections is more serious than buying too many flags for someone.
Adding:I had breakfast with a group yesterday, including a guy who has been an unthinking Conservative voter for most of his life. Watching him try to figure out how it must have been someone else's fault was quite amusing, because he finally realised that too many fingers were pointing at his preferred gang - and shut up suddenly.
[ 02. March 2012, 20:29: Message edited by: Horseman Bree ]
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I worked in a call centre for a year, it was a "Business Process Outsourcing" centre just like the Thunder Bay centre under investigation. These places are very scripted. What the call agent says on the phone is based on the script provided by the client, the entire purpose of management is to make sure the agent says on script. Nobody there would think up something on the spot, it goes against the business model and the contract. Agents are paid to check their brains at the door.
The Robocall script very likely came from the Tory campaign staff. The call database was matched to the script through mail-merge. That mail-merge points to central Tory campaign staff. The fact that the accusations come from widely spread out ridings suggests the same.
It is interesting watching TV commentators analyze the facts when they don't have call centre experience. This case will boil down to "who was the call-centre client", "who ordered that contracting client to do what he did" and "who paid for it".
The fact that the Tories are known to have a very extensive supporter database and sophisticated voter identification software doesn't help their claims, as does the fact that access and control of that software resides at senior campaign staff levels.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
It is really too early to tell where this might be going and how high up the Conservative food chain it will go. Election staff make certain that the candidates know as little as possible about what is going on in the boiler room-- it keeps them out of teaport tempests as well as cheerfully ignorant of funding, so I would be really surprised if it led to the very top.
The Tory culture of take-no-prisoners is one which does not have long legs and it is easy to see how the corner-cutting and rules-bending has been encouraged by the example of Senator Finley and the others involved in the in-out advertising expenses scandal. While Elections Canada accepted a fine in that case, I suspect that we may see charges here. Time will tell.
Earlier today, while collecting some fine Leonidas chocolates to sustain me through my upcoming birthday, I ran into one of my blue-tie friends from a Conservative minister's office. He looked very tight-lipped and unhappy, but that may of course stem from the rigours of lenten discipline rather than distress at the robocalls situation. Another friend's daughter, tweeting that yesterday was Justin Bieber's 18th birthday, was tweeted back that he could now vote, provided a robocall did not send him to the wrong polling location.
If I were the Conservatives, I would be nervous about this one. It may be 3 years until election day, but this narrative fits too closely into a more widely-spread unease with their tough-on-everybody-else approach. Fighting Rick Mercer's rant is a mug's game.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Psmith
Shipmate
# 15311
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Posted
In a few weeks I will be voting in a bi-election. If only it were federal.
What, if anyone happens to know, is the legal consequence if the results of an election are brought into doubt: I know there a fines and potential prison sentences for offenders, but can a sitting mp be removed?
Posts: 81 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Nov 2009
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I agree with you Augustine, with the reservation that at this point, given the widespread location of the calls, the current prime suspect is senior Tory campaign staff, the boiler room workers in Ottawa, especially the ones who implement strategy.
Whether their purported actions will tarnish sitting politicians remains to be seen; scandals injure reputations though guilt by association.
It is interesting to note that the Commissioner of Canada Elections has a staff of two and a reactionary budget. Normally the Commissioner has little work and reacts to complaints. This is the biggest election scandal in Canada in decades.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Psmith:
In a few weeks I will be voting in a bi-election. If only it were federal.
What, if anyone happens to know, is the legal consequence if the results of an election are brought into doubt: I know there a fines and potential prison sentences for offenders, but can a sitting mp be removed?
Under the Elections Act, Section 531(1), an election in a federal electoral district can be declared nul, and the seat is vacated, and a by-election called (within 90 days, I think). This could happen when the margin of votes is smaller than the number of persons alleging to be misled about polling station locations.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I doubt that sitting MP's will have their elections overturned but that isn't the worst of it. All indications are that this could the one thing that mortally destroys Tory political capital, even with their own base.
There is an old saying that Canadians don't vote for governments but vote against sitting governments. This is the one issue that could give enough people reason to vote the Tories out next election, that's the real nightmare scenario for the party leadership.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Dean Del Mastro should be ignored.
The Peterborough Examiner, OTOH, probably has it right.
Examiner opinion
Elections Canada report on the election.
There are always two explanations for bad behaviour, maliciousness or stupidity. Stupidity might win here, the Tories ever-so-clever get out the vote machine jumped the gun on telling voters where to go. They should have left it up to Elections Canada, I have never heard of Elections Canada misdirecting voters in its own communications.
Dean Del Mastro claimed that there were 127 poll location changes in his riding in this election. I worked in that riding in the 2008 election. Nonsense, Dean. That is more than half the polls and definitely a majority of locations. Prove it, Dean. The Returning Officer for Peterborough is an 75 year old lady who has done her job for decades. She isn't that disorganized.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Psmith
Shipmate
# 15311
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Posted
The Tories due seem to have an impressive ability to get away with things, and with the election so far away, I would not count on this having a decisive impact. I would tend to think they have already done enough to cost them credibility, but then I wouldn't vote for them anyway, and so I'm, perhaps, not in the ideal position to judge.
Posts: 81 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Nov 2009
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Psmith
Shipmate
# 15311
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Posted
Forgive my above misuse of due/do. It's to late to edit (how short is the window?).
I'm not sure how much impact efforts to direct people to the wrong place will have had. I don't know what my reaction would be to such a call. I suspect I would check online... but not everyone has that option. In some ways the alleged practice of impersonating another campaign and calling late at night, or otherwise at an bad time, more troubling.
Posts: 81 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Nov 2009
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
It's less about the actual effect of the calls than the fact that the calls were made. If there were attempts to suppress votes, a crime has been committed, regardless of whether the attempt changed the course of the election.
It seems clear in Guelph that there is enough evidence for a criminal investigation. The question then becomes how far up the Conservative hierarchy the trail goes.
"What did they know, and when did they know it?"
And it wasn't the Watergate break-in that brought down Nixon, it was the subsequent cover-up.
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If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery
my blog
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Please be aware that this telephone call may be monitored for quality control purposes
Elections Canada regrets to inform you that, due to inclement weather and overcrowding in this venue, further discussion on Robocalls will now take place on the "In Crowd" thread; those interested in continuing the discussion can pick up the link to that thread in the Oblivion Forum.
We regret any inconvenience this may cause Canadian Shipmates.
Pierre Poutine, 666 Separatist Avenue, Joliette, PQ.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
Please be aware that this telephone call may be monitored for quality control purposes
Elections Canada regrets to inform you that, due to inclement weather and overcrowding in this venue, further discussion on Robocalls will now take place on the "In Crowd" thread; those interested in continuing the discussion can pick up the link to that thread in the Oblivion Forum.
We regret any inconvenience this may cause Canadian Shipmates.
Pierre Poutine, 666 Separatist Avenue, Joliette, PQ.
I must admit that when I first say the news report, I read Pierre Polievre.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Interesting, though, how an outrage involving 130,000 Canadians from across the country somehow gets stored away and then suddenly pops up a full ten months later, just as the re-elected government is about to release their first budget, isn't it, though?
Funny the way these things work sometimes.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
AIUI, Elections Canada has been investigating the matter, based on a number of complaints from citizens, since May; it is the recent filing of information in court by EC that has brought about widespread attention now.
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If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery
my blog
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
Mr Vellacott muddies the waters (and misses the point). It may well be that the voters' lists are inaccurate. But that in no way explains phone calls that directed people to non-existent polling stations, nor the calls that were falsely represented to be from Elections Canada officials. Nor does it account for harassing late-night phone calls.
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If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery
my blog
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
I have had to re-read Mr Vellacott's comments twice before I could finally figure out what they have to do with the Robocall situation. I had no idea that the red herring fisheries in Saskatchewan were so succesful.
The rationale in the Peterborough examiner quoted by SPK is logical and, indeed, if I had heard it on the second day of the affair, might have even been convincing. But as I idly perambulate about town, listening to the news on my ipod, each day brings a new set of talking points from the PMO, and a new perpetrator. Surely they cannot seriously believe that we do not see they are making up their explanations on the fly? Normally, the Conservatives deal with their scandals much more effectively.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
To be seen as ineffective is the ultimate disaster for the powerful.
Now a Tory backbencher from Saskatchewan is accusing Elections Canada of being behind the calls. Elections Canada doesn't make those calls. You get a voter card and a notification if there is a change.
Second, the address information in rural areas can be terrible. I know, I had to deal with it with so many registration changes. A given property can be known by its civic address (Lot 41, Concession 12, Seymour Township, Northumberland County, ON), it's rural route number (Rural Route 5, Cobourg, ON) or its current 911 number (658 Maple Road, Trent Hills, ON). Municipal mergers don't make it easier and Elections Canada rules say each the address on your two pieces of ID has to match your declared address on the Voter's List, so if the Voter's List is wrong we have to correct it.
The Voter's List addresses in this Riding are a mess.
Good grief I thought the Tories were smarter than this. Elections Canada is the one of the most reputable and trusted agencies in all of Canada. it is stocked with very committed people who know their business and really care about the quality of what they do. They are forthrightly honest.
The Tories are descending into idiocy.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Those who live by the frat house prank may ultimately die by the frat house prank.
Probably not, though; there truly is no credible alternative just at the moment.
[ 06. March 2012, 01:32: Message edited by: Silver Faux ]
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
You find the NDP not to be credible?
We're working on that.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
Those who live by the frat house prank may ultimately die by the frat house prank.
Probably not, though; there truly is no credible alternative just at the moment.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) Frat house prank is putting detergent in a fountain. It's like calling a military coup a flash mob.
As for the Tories trying to blame Elections Canada, that's their standard MO - blame the messenger. Remember when they put Attawapiskat under third-party management and claimed they wanted an audit? They neglected to mention that the community was already under co-management for years, so INAC had complete knowledge and control of their finances already. Same thing with Chalk River, Environment Canada, the list goes on. OliviaG
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
There was a research paper published which pointed out that if globalthe warming continues at current rate, outdoor hockey in Canada may be gone in most places in 50 years.
global warming could spell the end of oudoor hockey
It will be intersting to see if this changes policies about the tar sand extraction.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
You find the NDP not to be credible?
We're working on that.
I think Jack Layton overwhelmingly won the Leader's Debates, in English and particularly in French, at least partly because he was the only one present at the debates who did not appear comatose and had obviously gathered facts and prepared research before standing at the podium.
He also appeared both positive and upbeat, and apparently inspired confidence in the viewers.
But - and this is a big but, IMO - I don't think all that many folks voted NDP in the last election had ever heard of the current leadership hopefuls... Niki Ashton · Nathan Cullen · Paul Dewar · Thomas Mulcair · Martin Singh · Peggy Nash ... well, hopefully you get the idea.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
Those who live by the frat house prank may ultimately die by the frat house prank.
Probably not, though; there truly is no credible alternative just at the moment.
Credible depends on perspective. I recall looking at Stephen Harper and wondering how a MP's staffer turned NGO administrator, with no experience of the world and abysmally rocky French, could with a straight face present himself as a leader of anything (I still can't). And looking at Jack Layton some years ago when he presented himself, I thought it a pity that Olivia Chow was not running instead, as she had a much more solid track record (I still do). Nevertheless they managed to get plaudits for their performance.
Sometimes the most unprepossessing people are able to live up to the job description. Sometimes the most impressive résumés and records of accomplishment turn sour rather quickly. Recall, dear shipmates, the brilliant private-sector executive efficienty of Iron Ore of Canada executive Brian Mulroney or the honed expertise of Canadian Steamship Lines and longtime Finance Minister Paul Martin? All the world thought that these were miraculously Godgiven credible alternatives.
Providence, in its own way, presents us with surprises.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Double post apology for lost sentence.
Years from now, we may be looking at these days as the beginning of the Singh era.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Fair enough, Silver Faux.
Until this Parliament, the NDP was the third party and nobody pays attention to anybody but the leader of third parties.
I am a member of the NDP so the rest should be read in that light.
I had heard of Thomas Mulcair before the leadership contest, but only because he was the first NDP MP ever elected from Quebec in a General Election and only the second from Quebec ever. Then a miracle happened and this one Quebec NDP MP multiplied 50 times.
If the NDP had won ten seats in Quebec Jack Layton would have been acclaimed a genius and his record would be secure. 51 seats in Quebec and Official Opposition status was a miracle from heaven, a dream come true. It happens like that in fiction, not in real life. But it did.
Singh isn't so bad, I have read his website. I love his Pharmacare plan but as a Type I Diabetic Parmacare is a hobby-horse of mine. I would encourage him to run for a seat (he doesn't have one) and wouldn't hesitate to make him Health Critic.
I will be voting for Singh or Ashton (haven't decided which) on the First Round and Mulcair on every other round. I would vote for Mulcair on the first round but he doesn't have a pharmacare plank. I told his campaign that when they called me.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
After a bit of research, I do not believe that Elections Canada has received more than 31,000 'complaints' about robocalls.
I do beleive that there may well have been tens of thousands of clicks on www.leadnow.ca which is a website where those "concerned" about the possibility of robocalls can click as easily as clicking 'like' on facebook, and then that website staff will forward those 'clicks of concern' to Elections Canada.
I also beleieve that, having heard what may well amount to misinformation on the issue, a great many Canadians now believe that there was an organized political plot to steal the last election.
I have yet to see, however, a record of anyone claiming to have lost the chance to vote due to these robocalls.
Now, dirty tricks during elections, while certainly despicable, are as old as elections themselves. It should not be news to anyone that a posse of drunken bozos on mountain bikes can each easily mow down a couple of hundred opponents' election signs in just one night, although that has been made more difficult with the advent of wire frame signs; the frames tend to jam bike tires and throw the rider over the handlebars, at times dislocating shoulders. (Which hurts. A lot.)
It is indeed possible that over-zealous morons used robocalls inappropriately; if so, the finger points to local campaign workers, who would have access to voting lists and information on who had, and had not, already voted in each poll.
Party leaders are responsible for the actions of their support staff, whether or not they are aware of those actions, IMO.
www.leadnow.ca is run by NDP staff, including Ian Capstick and Judy Rebick, but the NDP is far too busy just at the moment with a leadership race to be leading the misinformation campaign stating that 31,000 people from across the country have made complaints to Elections Canada.
(In America, www.Avanz.org is also encouraging their members to contact Elections Canada to express concern over this issue, by the way.)
So, I beleive that ultimately, Stephen Harper bears the responsiblity for any robocalls made by campaign workers, even if he knew nothing of them.
Who, ultimately, bears responsiblity for the current misinformation campaign on the issue?
Liar, liar, pants on fire, Interim Liberal leader Bob Rae.
IMO.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
quote:
A spokesman said March 2 that Elections Canada has received 31,000 contacts from Canadians about calls during the last election campaign. That could include calls, emails, letters and form emails from campaigns such as Lead Now, which offers a form on its website to help people log complaints.
From CBC story Elections Canada denied new powers by Tories, MPs say.
The LeadNow form letter is indeed just a general expression of concern about the situation, and not a way of notifying Elections Canada about a specific instance of alleged fraud. The LeadNow site directs people to the Elections Canada form for fraud complaints.
So the 31,000 (or whatever the total is now) is not necessarily the number of actual allegations of fraud. How many allegations there are, we don't know. EC is presumably still sifting through 31,000+ emails and phone calls to find actual complaints.
But, and this is the important point, there are enough credible complaints and documented irregularities (such as the mysterious M. Poutine) for them to be carrying out investigations and filing documents in court, and they began to receive these complaints on election day.
Election fraud doesn't have to be widespread to be criminal.
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If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery
my blog
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Like Harper's gang, methinks SF doth protest too much. (Hey, I've had my bad days, too!)
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
... www.leadnow.ca is run by NDP staff, including Ian Capstick and Judy Rebick, ...
Both are actually Advisors, not staff or board members.
quote:
... (In America, www.Avanz.org is also encouraging their members to contact Elections Canada to express concern over this issue, by the way.) ...
Avaaz (note the correct spelling) is a world-wide organization which facilitates campaigns around the world. It is not an exclusively USA organization, and its campaign priorities are determined by the membership at large. Which means people around the world are taking notice of this CRAP. OliviaG
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Meg the Red
Shipmate
# 11838
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Posted
Anyone else go to a robocall protest today? I'm not a card-carrying anything, and it's the first protest I've ever attended, but I'm outraged at the efforts to tamper with one of our most basic rights (there are reports of robocalls in my riding, too, which is particularly disturbing, given that we ended up with this prize specimen).
My favourite sign was attached to a toddler's stroller: "Even I know how to play fair."
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Chocoholic Canuckistani Cyclopath
Posts: 1126 | From: Rat Creek | Registered: Sep 2006
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Received a robocall at our condo this past Friday.
It was from a church where I did some pulpit supply during the first six months of 2011.
They are doing up a church photo-directory, and advised me to call a number to book a setting for photos.
Thing is, though, I am now serving a different church, 20 km away, on a permanent basis.
So this robocall was, well, really quite misleading.
Should I start up a protest group now, or just accept the fact that robocalls are part of contemporary life, and not something to go apoplexic about?
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
phone rings at the Silver Faux residence...
"Hello. This is Revenue Canada. Your tax return indicates that you owe us five thousand dollars. Please immediately send a cheque to [Leaf residence]. Thank you."
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
<bump>
Here's an update from CBC on the alleged robocall election fraud:
9 Facts About Pierre Poutine
It's not looking good for our Conservative pals, is it? OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
No, it doesn't look good. As a DRO in that election, the whole scheme frightens me.
Elections Canada has a core of very committed volunteers who do their civic duty in staffing polls each and every time. These people are above reproach.
The rules have always been clear, parties can campaign to their heart's content, but actual election conduct is Elections Canada's responsibility. You play by the rules, you will have a good time. It's boring because it works.
Canadians will tolerate many things but election tampering is not one of them. This could be a sleeper issue.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
I have DRO'd in the distant past, and was impressed with the dedication and responsibility of the political volunteers, who served as scrutineers at the vote count. These people are the backbone of political parties and should things look untidy for the Conservatives, will hurt them terribly at the grass roots.
I hope that Elections Canada and the courts are thorough and diligent about this, as otherwise parties (all of them) will look upon this as permission to play dirty tricks of all sorts. Canadian elections were once very unpleasant events, and it took a half-century of focus to get us into a more democratic frame of mind, and I would hate to see us return to the old days, albeit with electronics.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I had a DRO adventure last time. A certain scrutineer came around to my poll. He was from Party A. I will say he wasn't a Tory. I accredited him without issue. He was an older gentleman and looked like he had done this before.
Then he handed us a form to fill out and call the poll results in to his Party's Riding headquarters. Then he invited my Poll Clerk and myself to the riding association's party afterwards.
No. No, absolutely not.
He left before I could get his name. I called my poll supervisor over and said the request was irregular and I wouldn't do it. We called the Elections Canada riding office on the hotline. They said no, don't do it, you only talk to us, we release poll results to the media and to party representatives.
I take it that party was short of volunteers and this man had traded on an "old boys network" for years doing this. But not with me. I play by the book.
Elections Canada's training manuals are excellent. You follow the rules, you'll have a good time. Then you go home and see what Peter Mansbridge is saying, knowing that you had a small part of it.
I know exactly what you mean, Augustine. I may disagree with the Tory and Liberal Riding Associations in this Riding, but I know some of them and they are excellent people. There is a core of decent people in the system that makes this all work.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
*tangent alert* My scrutineering story is more Rockwell Kentian. At the 1993 general election (before I became a grants officer for national organizations and I thought that, while the Public Service rules permit most political activity, discretion was the better part of valour and I retired myself from any public affiliation) I was agent for a certain running-third-these-days-party at a suburban poll and the elderly Conservative volunteer looked at my NDP colleague and myself and announced that she was off to take a nap, and could we manage her marked sheets for her.
We looked at each other, raised our eyebrows at the insanity of it, but dutifully kept track of her voters. Every now and then, he would ask me if I could be Tory for a few minutes as the strain was too much for him, and then after half an hour, I would return the compliment. In any case she brought us a box of her shortbread cookies but she left again before the polls closed and so Mr NDP and myself jointly scrutineered for the Conservative side as the votes were counted-- Mr NDP did challenge one vote on their behalf, and it was allowed. I then telephoned the results in to the Conservative HQ, then to my own. The DRO said that she had never seen anything like this before.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lothiriel
Shipmate
# 15561
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Posted
In related news:
Toronto riding's election result tossed by judge
The judge was careful to point out that this is due to faulty oversight by Elections Canada, and not a party rigging the ballot.
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If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea. St-Exupery
my blog
Posts: 538 | From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Mar 2010
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