Ship of Fools: Resurrected Burmese Buddhist monk

Thread: Resurrected Burmese Buddhist monk Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

While we're on the subject of apparent miracles and so on ... I seem to remember a thread a while back about a story put around by a mission agency about a Burmese monk who apparently came back to life on the funeral pyre and told everyone to repent and turn to Christ - he'd seen the Buddha and others burning in eternal hell fire ...

The story went that 300 Buddhist monks subsequently became Christians and that the resuscitated guy went around making tapes and preaching about his experiences until he disappear ... possibly murdered by anti-Christian elements ...

The story has since been debunked as an urban myth on several websites. I could provide links if necessary.

I only mention this because a retired guest-vicar preaching at our parish church this morning cited the story as stone-cold sober fact and appeared to regard any scepticism about it as a sign of Western degeneracy and lack of faith ... [Roll Eyes]

What do Ship-mates know of this story? And what would you say to the vicar in question?

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Ask him does he mean Mayanmar?

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

Ha ha ... well, he mentioned Myanmar (otherwise known as Burma) so he is aware of that. I must admit, I was a tad surprised he took the story so seriously. I knew he was of a charismatic bent, but even so ...

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

And I was also aiming at some alliteration in the thread title, of course ...

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

I had a vague sense I might have heard such a story back in the days before spam filtering became automatic. I obviously paid little attention to it if so!

But having gone away to look it up, I'm not sure that urban myth is quite the right category for it. It seems that there really was such a character going round making such claims, and that most Burmese Christians tended to ignore it if they heard of it. It was spread abroad by a particular western Christian organization.

If I have the right details (and indeed the right incident) perhaps the issue at hand is credulity in the face of tall tales. There are deeper issues of course, such as what that organisation was about and the extent it might have been uncritical because of its purpose, but that I think is a subsidiary issue.

Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:

I only mention this because a retired guest-vicar preaching at our parish church this morning cited the story as stone-cold sober fact and appeared to regard any scepticism about it as a sign of Western degeneracy and lack of faith ... [Roll Eyes]

This no longer causes me to roll my eyes, but rather go into a state of near apoplexy. I think there is far too much of this sort of peddling of the Noble Lie in the evangelical world (I'm aware it goes on in other places, but a, this is the world I live in and b, evangelicals regard those other worlds as people who have lost their grasp on the 'Truth').

No. It doesn't glorify God. Not. One. Little. Bit.

Posted by savedbyhim01 (# 17035) on :

I would be interested if someone comes up with a link for this. Recently a friend sent me an article about a young Christian believer from Ecuador who claimed to have died and gone to see hell and heaven and then came back to life to warn people to repent. Her testimony, however, had some contradictions with Scripture so wasn't reliable.

Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on :

Gah. Hit post too soon. If I recall correctly, the publishing house that published 'The Heavenly Man' was somehow involved in spreading the Buddhist monk story.

Though the two stories were unconnected - the main impact for me was to cast doubt on the veracity of the the book.

Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :

Lying for Jesus has a long, ignoble history. Sigh.

The idea of the Buddha burning in hell for -- what exactly? -- please.

[ 16. April 2012, 00:10: Message edited by: LutheranChik ]

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

Not accepting Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior.

Duh

Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :

Oh, right -- damn those benighted pre-Jesusians.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by savedbyhim01:
Her testimony, however, had some contradictions with Scripture so wasn't reliable.

Just piping up to say I find this an interesting reasoning process. I understand WHY the reasoning process exists.

But is a near-death/pre-resurrection report inherently more reliable if it does tally with Scripture?

[ 16. April 2012, 00:42: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

Do Buddhists have the same story about Christians?
Or a Buddhist who claimed he was a Christian in a previous life and is now more enlightened.

I was told by a Tibetan Monk of a person who killed a number of different types of animals and was reborn as a cross-breed of all of them.

[ 16. April 2012, 01:24: Message edited by: Latchkey Kid ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
Or a Buddhist who claimed he was a Christian in a previous life and is now more enlightened.

I like this one. [Big Grin]

Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :

I think the original story was an illusion on the way.

We must walk on! [Killing me]

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

I'm walking on ... whether I'm walking 'away' from this vicar and his ilk remains to be seen.

Here's a link:

http://www.ccgm.org.au/index.php?g=articles&a=0102

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by savedbyhim01:
I would be interested if someone comes up with a link for this. Recently a friend sent me an article about a young Christian believer from Ecuador who claimed to have died and gone to see hell and heaven and then came back to life to warn people to repent. Her testimony, however, had some contradictions with Scripture so wasn't reliable.

Don't lots of people have nightmares/dreams/psychotic episodes/hallucinations on the point of death?

Why shouldn't we simply assume this is brain activity when starved of oxygen etc - very 'real' to the person, but nothing to base theology on?

Why would contradictions with scripture make any difference? Scripture is chock full of contradictions.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

Breaking news on this one ... I'd sent the guest-vicar the debunking link by email and he's concluded that the story was incorrect. He wonders whether to disassociate himself from it and to talk to the incumbent about it.

Interestingly, he got the story from well-known speakers on the charismatic Anglican circuit (I won't name them but UK shipmates in the know with such things could probably guess which ones).

I've suggested that he no longer trust them either ... [Razz]

Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Breaking news on this one ... I'd sent the guest-vicar the debunking link by email and he's concluded that the story was incorrect. He wonders whether to disassociate himself from it and to talk to the incumbent about it...

If I were to pen him a Zen lesson, to the sound of one hand clapping, Gamaliel, I think I would give him the 'message' from on top of my mound:

"Ah, Glasshopper, in future be extlemley careful."

[Killing me]

That was, I think, the import of your last sentence.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

[Yipee]

S'funny, that's the second time 'Glasshopper' has come up in conversation in the last few weeks ...

It must be a sign ...

Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :

[Biased]

Thais eat grasshoppers and other insects. I believe they provide a valuable source of protein.

So much for 'vegetarian Buddhism'. [Eek!]

As they said in a non-Buddhist TV show:
'The truth is out there'.

[Big Grin]

Posted by kankucho (# 14318) on :

Firstly, to pop one chestnut back in its shell: vegetarianism isn't a fundamental requirement in Buddhism, although several schools have adopted local cultural ethics to make it so.

As for the apocryphal Buddhist monk in the OP story: if he isn't apocryphal, then the fact that he was so spooked by a near-death self-generated vision of the Buddha in Hell only indicates that he was practising with an inferior school that hadn't primed him sufficiently with the Buddhist perspective on Hell -- that it is not a place to go but a condition inherent in all living beings. That's all beings, including 'The Buddha'. Buddhahood is also an innate condition. Buddhism teaches that those who strive to manifest the condition of Buddha are certain to find it, even in hellish circumstances. If the monk and his fellow believers were not mindful of this, and fixated on 'The Buddha' as an external personality, of course they would be ripe for easy conversion to any other religion, and wouldn't be missing much for having done so.

However, I think we can all agree that the story is pure fabrication. Its assumptions are entirely consistent with the wilful misconceptions certain Christians have about the semi-historic Shakyamuni Buddha as a false messianic figure.

Posted by kankucho (# 14318) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
Do Buddhists have the same story about Christians?

Not with quite so many bells and whistles, but I keep a few anecdotes up my sleeve about personal acquaintances' conversions, mostly for the benefit of certain house-callers who eagerly start a conversational ball rolling with a tale of a Buddhist they've heard of who became a Jehovah's Witness.

quote:
Or a Buddhist who claimed he was a Christian in a previous life and is now more enlightened.

I'll just hold on to my 'Ship's Benign Heretic' badge and tactfully offer that people who aren't 100% in their convictions are apt to change their minds. [Smile]

quote:
I was told by a Tibetan Monk of a person who killed a number of different types of animals and was reborn as a cross-breed of all of them.

Isn't it funny how, in every religion, someone only has to put on a scratchy robe and a quietly smug smile, and people will listen intently to any old shite they can think of to say? [Big Grin]

Posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd) (# 12163) on :

quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
Firstly, to pop one chestnut back in its shell: vegetarianism isn't a fundamental requirement in Buddhism...

I'm pretty sure Gamaliel knows that. I certainly do.

You must forgive us, the story, now obviously shown to be a fable, was initially taken as true, so we were both relieving ourselves with a good laugh. If there was a hint of Bodidharma to that laughter I think he would have approved. Gut wrenching, healthy laughter.

You are quite correct. What passes for knowledge of Buddhism in the contemporary West is sometimes very, very short of the truth.

Knowledge of Christianity amongst most contemporary Westerners is also pretty low.

I think, in the story, they both collided.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I must admit, I was a tad surprised he took the story so seriously.

People are amazingly willing to blindly believe that the things they want to be true are.

The only even halfway effective solution is to live in a permanent state of cynicism about bullshit like this.

quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
I'll just hold on to my 'Ship's Benign Heretic' badge

You should totally have 'Ship's Benign Heretic' as your custom title [Big Grin]

Posted by Chesterbelloc (# 3128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Ask him does he mean Mayanmar?

You really don't want to go there.

[ 18. April 2012, 08:53: Message edited by: Chesterbelloc ]

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