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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: struggling students with stock portfolios
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
I found this entry on Daily Kos fascinating: Hard lessons the Romneys learned as struggling students.
I find myself wondering if the Romneys really believe they are just ordinary folks, with the same struggles that everyone else has, or if they think they have to pretend that's the case in order for Mr. Romney to be elected.
And if they think they have to pretend that's the case, I wonder if they think anyone believes it.
I know there's a real tendency for people to think their experience is normative. If they compare themselves to other people at all, they compare themselves to the people they know well. Is that what the Romneys have done?
Is it possible for someone like Mr. Romney, who is and has always been wealthy, to understand what things are like for those of us who weren't given stock portfolios by our parents? Does it matter?
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
I find myself wondering if the Romneys really believe they are just ordinary folks, with the same struggles that everyone else has
Yes, I think they do. Just like we all do.
quote:
I know there's a real tendency for people to think their experience is normative. If they compare themselves to other people at all, they compare themselves to the people they know well. Is that what the Romneys have done?
Yes.
quote:
Is it possible for someone like Mr. Romney, who is and has always been wealthy, to understand what things are like for those of us who weren't given stock portfolios by our parents?
No, or at least not without a lot of effort. Just like none of us can really understand what it's like to be a starving Somalian refugee with literally no posessions and nowhere to turn. For that matter, can any of us really understand what it's like to be a Romney - the unique trials and pressures that come from being in their position in life?
quote:
Does it matter?
To whom, and for what purpose?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
Neither Nelson Rockefeller nor Ted Kennedy ever had to sell their blood to buy a meal. But they both were paragons of public virtue (and private vice, alas). It is quite possible to dedicate yourself to improving the lot of the disadvantaged without ever having been disadvantaged yourself -- I expect you might prefer to be governed by Warren Buffett than Rod Blagojevich, for example.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Hang about? They are talking about the time between 1969 and 1975?
So Mr Romney's Dad had walked away from AMC with lots of shares (which prospered because they took over the Jeep company and started the SUV boom), had been governor of Michigan, got bored with that and was now Nixon's Secretary for Housing and the 13th in line to the US presidency?
Such poverty! Such limited horizons! Such lack of influence and connections! If only all those unemployed kids haning around oin street corners and single mothers in housing projects and fifty-something ex-miners with emphysema had a fraction of Mr Romney's get up and go and Mrs Romney's frugal ways with pasta and tuna! They too could triumph over their adversities, get themselves a decent colleege degree and walk into one of those many jobs that are out there crying out for people just like them.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Stock portfolios end up in the laps of the unsuspecting. One of my neighbours is a hungry Women's Studies graduate student (lots of lucrative longterm job prospects there) whose godmother died recently and landed her with a Very Large package of varied stocks. She has gone from a ramen noodle (and three-mushroom risotto cadged from neighbour) to being able to fund her own education and get a condo as well.
She has assured us that she is not planning to join a golf club or vote for Stephen Harper. At least not right away.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
Is it possible for someone like Mr. Obama, whose mother took him around the world as a child following her husband(s) before leaving him with her mother to ultimately be raised by a Bank Vice-President in paradise, attend prep-school almost from the start, attend Harvard, and pick up a half a million dollar inheritance of his own to understand what things are like for those of us who weren't given away to rich family by our parents? Does it matter?
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
I was working at the learning garden at the local food bank, and decided that going on the warehouse tour was more fun than standing in the sun on a rare 90 degree day weeding in the tomato patch. Especially since it included a walkthrough of the refrigeration rooms.
There were some young women on the tour who were there as part of a college community service requirement. Our tour guide, who had once been a client of the Food Bank and was now one of the lead warehouse workers, mentioned that he had to choose once between buying a prescription medication for his child and buying food, but the food bank stepped in and got his family enough food for the month.
One of the young women scoffed and said, "Why didn't you put it on your credit card?"
I provide this anecdote not as data, but as what I think is illustrative of a certain mentality that goes with privilege. You don't really understand the mentality of someone who has spent a lot of time with zero resources to fall back on. This Cracked.com article entitled "5 Things Nobody Tells You About Being Poor" has a lot of swearing, but it also has several things I've never had to experience myself, and at least one I'd honestly never thought of until I read it.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
They're trotting out Mrs Romney as the surrogate candidate to reach more women voters. She's a 'stay at home mom' so she knows what hard work is.
Having to give instructions to your team of nannies must really cut into your horse-riding and tennis time.
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
JS, you do realize the whole point of that 'stay at home' faux argument is to distract the conversation away from actual issues (like the fact Romney's economic policies will take a lot of money away from economically disadvantaged people, whom are disproportionately mothers), and give people what seems to be carte blanche to say very mean and sexist things about women, right?
In other words, I suggest you do not feed the talking head trolls.
[ 17. April 2012, 16:14: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Is it possible for someone like Mr. Obama, [...] Does it matter?
It might if he told lies about it.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
Neither Nelson Rockefeller nor Ted Kennedy ever had to sell their blood to buy a meal. But they both were paragons of public virtue (and private vice, alas). It is quite possible to dedicate yourself to improving the lot of the disadvantaged without ever having been disadvantaged yourself -- I expect you might prefer to be governed by Warren Buffett than Rod Blagojevich, for example.
That's quite true -- it is possible, as your examples show.
Do you think that the Romneys understand the lot of the disadvantaged, though? Or do their comments demonstrate that they are clueless?
How well do you have to understand the lot of the disadvantaged, in order to decide what, if anything, should be done to improve it?
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
... Is it possible for someone like Mr. Romney, who is and has always been wealthy, to understand what things are like for those of us who weren't given stock portfolios by our parents?
Yes, but it would require actually listening to people and acknowledging their reality instead of telling them "iff uz not a millionair ur doin it rong."
quote:
... Does it matter?
Yes. Democracy is (or should be) a lot of compromising between various groups. It's a lot easier to find a good compromise when you actually respect and understand the needs of others. OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Do you think that the Romneys understand the lot of the disadvantaged, though? Or do their comments demonstrate that they are clueless?
How well do you have to understand the lot of the disadvantaged, in order to decide what, if anything, should be done to improve it?
Romney was the governor of our state, and was a good one. While he is clearly more at home with rich folks than anyone else, I don't think that he is indifferent to anyone's problems. My guess is that he would be committed to working to improve the lot of all Americans.
To my mind, the biggest problem he would have as POTUS is that he is in a party that has no such commitment, so his allies would be considerably more interested in increasing their unearned advantages than in leveling the playing field or -- God forbid -- actually offering a leg up to those less fortunate than they are. Secondarily, the foul SCOTUS would only end up even more fascist than it is now with any Romney appointee. To my mind, these are serious reasons to work to defeat his run for the Presidency. But I think Romney himself is an honorable and industrious politician who would give all that he had to the job.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
JS, you do realize the whole point of that 'stay at home' faux argument is to distract the conversation away from actual issues (like the fact Romney's economic policies will take a lot of money away from economically disadvantaged people, whom are disproportionately mothers), and give people what seems to be carte blanche to say very mean and sexist things about women, right?
In other words, I suggest you do not feed the talking head trolls.
I don't think the 'stay at home mom' conversation is doing him too many favours. And I think his real concern - when it comes to being out of touch - should be his total separation from the Latino community. What is he doing there? The VP pick will probably shore up that gap.
My engagement with US Politics is through the lens of The Young Turks political show and they scrutinise every top/prominant politician*. Romney is - as they regularly demonstrate - a robot programmed to do what is best for the corporations, not the people. And he has as much fellow feeling for humanity as you'd expect from a tin man.
*You could actually argue they're hardest on Obama.
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
This Cracked.com article entitled "5 Things Nobody Tells You About Being Poor" has a lot of swearing, but it also has several things I've never had to experience myself, and at least one I'd honestly never thought of until I read it.
That was a good read (although even I winced at some of the vulgarity). When I was growing up, I never thought of my family as poor exactly, but so much in there was totally familiar to what I always called "working class." We did do without a lot of things my peers in school enjoyed. We only got by because my dad worked overtime every single work day. When the car broke down or needed new tires, or some other emergency came up, it went on the credit card.
However, we went a long way by being resourceful ourselves - my dad pretty much fixed everything (plumbing, cars, appliances, anything on the house) and my sisters & I learned to do the same. We also had good networks with our extended family and our church. But we also gave a lot to others in need - rarely in money; mostly in goods (like clothing my sisters & I had grown out of - which some other family had similarly given to us) and services (like my dad fixing someone's stove). And we received similar help. I think that was part of what kept me from becoming too cynical about church membership, actually!
And yet I know that there is still so much about being poor in America I never had to experience. I still wouldn't say I was ever poor, not because I'm afraid of some stigma involved, but out of respect for those who have to deal with so much crap that I never had to deal with. Poor folks, especially mothers (and especially single mothers), have to be superhumanly strong just to get by.
I give the Romneys some credit for at least trying to find something in their experience to empathize with others (giving them the benefit of the doubt, that they're really being sincere), but they really ought to be acknowledging the vast difference from their own "struggles" and what the poor and working poor experience in America - particularly those who don't enjoy networks and support systems, and have nothing and no one to fall back on.
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Strange:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
JS, you do realize the whole point of that 'stay at home' faux argument is to distract the conversation away from actual issues (like the fact Romney's economic policies will take a lot of money away from economically disadvantaged people, whom are disproportionately mothers), and give people what seems to be carte blanche to say very mean and sexist things about women, right?
In other words, I suggest you do not feed the talking head trolls.
I don't think the 'stay at home mom' conversation is doing him too many favours. And I think his real concern - when it comes to being out of touch - should be his total separation from the Latino community. What is he doing there? The VP pick will probably shore up that gap.
This is excellent commentary, as it discusses the politician and his policy, instead of being an attack on his wife and her perceived duties in the home.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Ann Romney competes in Dressage.
Dressage makes wind surfing look like bowling.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
Is it possible for someone like Mr. Obama, whose mother took him around the world as a child following her husband(s) before leaving him with her mother to ultimately be raised by a Bank Vice-President in paradise, attend prep-school almost from the start, attend Harvard, and pick up a half a million dollar inheritance of his own to understand what things are like for those of us who weren't given away to rich family by our parents? Does it matter?
I can't win on the facts! Change the subject! Throw sand in their eyes! Play the "I know you are but what am I" card! Anything but address the subject at hand!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Do you think that the Romneys understand the lot of the disadvantaged, though? Or do their comments demonstrate that they are clueless?
How well do you have to understand the lot of the disadvantaged, in order to decide what, if anything, should be done to improve it?
Romney was the governor of our state, and was a good one. While he is clearly more at home with rich folks than anyone else, I don't think that he is indifferent to anyone's problems. My guess is that he would be committed to working to improve the lot of all Americans.
To my mind, the biggest problem he would have as POTUS is that he is in a party that has no such commitment, so his allies would be considerably more interested in increasing their unearned advantages than in leveling the playing field or -- God forbid -- actually offering a leg up to those less fortunate than they are. Secondarily, the foul SCOTUS would only end up even more fascist than it is now with any Romney appointee. To my mind, these are serious reasons to work to defeat his run for the Presidency. But I think Romney himself is an honorable and industrious politician who would give all that he had to the job.
--Tom Clune
Sadly the party of Nelson Rockefeller no longer exists.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
quote:
Jonathan Strange posted : I don't think the 'stay at home mom' conversation is doing him too many favours. And I think his real concern - when it comes to being out of touch - should be his total separation from the Latino community. What is he doing there? The VP pick will probably shore up that gap.
I cannot think of a possible vice presidential candidate that would shore up that gap.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Just read the article. In the words of George Takei, "OHHhhhh, MYYYYYY"!
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I sometimes think presidential candidates should be *required* to spend time living like/with average people. Perhaps on a reality TV show?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Ann Romney competes in Dressage.
Dressage makes wind surfing look like bowling.
Last I checked, she's not running for public office.
[ 18. April 2012, 03:40: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Doesn't matter. Both sides have attacked candidates families in the past. This year won't be any different.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
Rudy Guiliani was the VP prediction of TYT host Cenk Ugyur. (Am I getting my latinos mixed up with my hispanics?)
[ 18. April 2012, 06:14: Message edited by: Jonathan Strange ]
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Anything but address the subject at hand!
As far as I can see, the subject at hand is "can the Romneys really understand what things are like for people who aren't like them?" To which the obvious answer is "no, of course they can't". But that's true for people at all levels of society, it's not a uniquely upper-class problem. And that means that romanlion's post was perfectly on topic - it's not an attack that you can sling at one politician without also slinging it at all the rest.
Romney is almost certainly incapable of understanding the unique problems and pressures that come with being, say, a latino single mother with no job or savings. But that latino single mother is also incapable of understanding the unique problems and pressures that come with being a rich married white man. And they're both incapable of understanding the unique problems and pressures that come from being an average Joe Sixpack or Alice Applepie in Middle America.
[ 18. April 2012, 08:16: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Niteowl
Hopeless Insomniac
# 15841
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
quote:
Jonathan Strange posted : I don't think the 'stay at home mom' conversation is doing him too many favours. And I think his real concern - when it comes to being out of touch - should be his total separation from the Latino community. What is he doing there? The VP pick will probably shore up that gap.
I cannot think of a possible vice presidential candidate that would shore up that gap.
Senator Marc Rubio, who is very popular in Florida and with the right wing conservatives. He is drafting the GOP proposed immigration legislation, which allows those who were brought here illegally as children to stay, but not become citizens, which may or may not give Romney a boost with Latinos.
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"love all, trust few, do wrong to no one"
Wm. Shakespeare
Posts: 2437 | From: U.S. | Registered: Aug 2010
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
Senator Marc Rubio[/QB]
100% correct - and I was mixed up. I meant Rubio, not Guiliani. The commentary I misremembered can be seen here.
The only thing that doesn't tick all the boxes is the fact he's a man.
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I can't win on the facts! Change the subject! Throw sand in their eyes! Play the "I know you are but what am I" card! Anything but address the subject at hand!
Sounds like a good distillation of the Obama re-election strategy.
I don't expect him to be doing much bragging about his performance thus far, so it has to be all about Romney being EvilMormonRichGuy.
That is a pitiful, pathetic, weak position to start from. But then, this is Obama's re-election we're talking about here.
They don't call 'em dims for nothing.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I can't win on the facts! Change the subject! Throw sand in their eyes! Play the "I know you are but what am I" card! Anything but address the subject at hand!
Sounds like a good distillation of the Obama re-election strategy.
I don't expect him to be doing much bragging about his performance thus far, so it has to be all about Romney being EvilMormonRichGuy.
That is a pitiful, pathetic, weak position to start from. But then, this is Obama's re-election we're talking about here.
They don't call 'em dims for nothing.
Very nice straw man, Romanlion. He looks a little worse for wear, though what do you expect when you're recycling the straw man that's been beaten like a pinata by conservative talking heads for the last several years.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Anything but address the subject at hand!
As far as I can see, the subject at hand is "can the Romneys really understand what things are like for people who aren't like them?" To which the obvious answer is "no, of course they can't". But that's true for people at all levels of society, it's not a uniquely upper-class problem. And that means that romanlion's post was perfectly on topic - it's not an attack that you can sling at one politician without also slinging it at all the rest.
Romney is almost certainly incapable of understanding the unique problems and pressures that come with being, say, a latino single mother with no job or savings. But that latino single mother is also incapable of understanding the unique problems and pressures that come with being a rich married white man. And they're both incapable of understanding the unique problems and pressures that come from being an average Joe Sixpack or Alice Applepie in Middle America.
I would agree with all of the above, but Romney's many verbal gaffes indicate that he may be uniquely clueless to the life experience of average Americans. While yes, none of us can really ever know what it's like to walk in another's shoes, most of us can, with sufficient education, exposure, and most of all, attentive listening, develop a degree of empathy & understanding. This is where Romney seems particularly inept.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
quote:
Jonathan Strange posted : I don't think the 'stay at home mom' conversation is doing him too many favours. And I think his real concern - when it comes to being out of touch - should be his total separation from the Latino community. What is he doing there? The VP pick will probably shore up that gap.
I cannot think of a possible vice presidential candidate that would shore up that gap.
Senator Marc Rubio, who is very popular in Florida and with the right wing conservatives. He is drafting the GOP proposed immigration legislation, which allows those who were brought here illegally as children to stay, but not become citizens, which may or may not give Romney a boost with Latinos.
Whatever happened to the DREAM Act in that such children could become citizens upon reaching 18 and completing 2 years of post-secondary education or volunteering for the Armed Forces.
The caveat was that they could not sponsor their family for immigration, which seems much more fair, the parents are the ones who illegally immigrated intentionally, they should not benefit by their "anchor baby". The kid was just along for the ride and grew up playing with other American citizens on the block.
I always thought of this as the Foreign Legion Act. An Armed Forces recruiter could make a great deal of hay in neighbourhoods with young adults who ask for the benefit of this Act.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Rubio is Cuban. Cubans who make it to shore are granted citizenship and so don't worry about the plight of other Hispanic/Latinos. Rubio has voiced his opposition to DREAM since it doesnt affect his community. This combined with supporting Arizona's SB 1070, for example has made him unpopular with Non-Cuban Latino/Hispanics. In a desperate campaign move, maybe in hopes of grooming him for VP status or maybe just to try and scrape together some Hispanic/Latino votes, Rubio suddenly has a change of heart and proposes DREAM lite which is like DREAM only when you serve and die for your country it isn't exactly YOUR country since it denies citizenship and instead creates a powerless underclass. Cuban's make up approx 3% of the Latino population and the rest are descended from other countries and these are the children whom would benefit from DREAM. He is a tool of the Tea Party. No one is voting for Rubio.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I can't win on the facts! Change the subject! Throw sand in their eyes! Play the "I know you are but what am I" card! Anything but address the subject at hand!
Sounds like a good distillation of the Obama re-election strategy.
Aaaaand he still can't stop. Amazing.
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
... Romney's many verbal gaffes indicate that he may be uniquely clueless to the life experience of average Americans.
I know there isn't anyone who runs for national political office who isn't supremely privileged in some ways, and one of the things that privilege does to you is that it makes you unaware of the difficulties others, who do not share your privilege, face every day. People who are privileged are, almost by definition, clueless.
But I think you're right, cliffdweller. Romney's cluelessness seems to stand in a class by itself. And what concerns me is that he seems entirely unaware of his cluelessness.
That seems dangerous to me, in someone who is setting policy for a nation. If he doesn't realize that there are people who are working three part-time jobs, and who can't take time away from work to see a doctor because if they miss a shift they'll get fired, and they can't afford to pay a doctor anyway, because if they pay a doctor they will have to decide whether to buy gas to get to work, or food for their family -- if he doesn't get that, then how can he make good decisions about policies on healthcare, employment, and food and nutritional support?
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
Right now, it's hard to tell exactly who Romney is, what he understands, or what he will do if elected.
The only way he could become the GOP front-runner was to take his rhetoric so far to the right that he hardly resembles himself anymore; and it's difficult to guess how he'll flip-flop during the general election when he's trying to appeal to the moderate left, and even more difficult to tell how he'll really act in office if he makes it there.
No, he doesn't understand the struggles of the working class, but neither does Obama. So far Obama's policies have been more sympathetic to the working class than Mitt's rhetoric has; but Mitt's past policies (while in Mass) were not that bad.
Both candidates seem so mediocre.
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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
... Romney's many verbal gaffes indicate that he may be uniquely clueless to the life experience of average Americans.
I know there isn't anyone who runs for national political office who isn't supremely privileged in some ways, and one of the things that privilege does to you is that it makes you unaware of the difficulties others, who do not share your privilege, face every day. People who are privileged are, almost by definition, clueless.
But I think you're right, cliffdweller. Romney's cluelessness seems to stand in a class by itself. And what concerns me is that he seems entirely unaware of his cluelessness.
That seems dangerous to me, in someone who is setting policy for a nation. If he doesn't realize that there are people who are working three part-time jobs, and who can't take time away from work to see a doctor because if they miss a shift they'll get fired, and they can't afford to pay a doctor anyway, because if they pay a doctor they will have to decide whether to buy gas to get to work, or food for their family -- if he doesn't get that, then how can he make good decisions about policies on healthcare, employment, and food and nutritional support?
Romney's latest gaffe was to berate a local woman at a staged "make Romney look like a nice, average guy" picnic in Pennsylvania over having brought bakery cookies to the picnic. He berated her because the cookies weren't homemade. However they were from the nice, local bakery, the ones that make quality cookies and charge prices accordingly, not supermarket specials.
He couldn't just smile, nod, make innocent small talk and emphasize the cuddly portions of his platform along with allusions to Mom and Apple Pie, possibly with a real apple pie for dessert? You know, like his campaign staff told him to?
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif) He could have been a decent, Rockefeller Republican candidate who ran on his record with health care in Massachusetts, affable in his own way and whatever lack of personality and common experience could be overlooked because whatever else he is, he just isn't nasty. Instead he's shackled to the Tea Party and will probably wind up at the bottom of Boston Harbor like the original tea.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
...those of us who weren't given stock portfolios by our parents...
This is somewhat off-point, but when I was a wee adolescent my lower middle-class father gave me a stock portfolio (one stock, of maybe fifty bucks in value). He thought it might give me a bit of an education (reading and deciphering stock tables) and perhaps give me something to aspire to. I did keep the habit.
My most recent token holding is in Corrections Corporation of America. I bought it so I would have an incentive to follow what those evil weasels are up to. The nuns taught me well.
[ 21. April 2012, 02:14: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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