Thread: What did you think of my sermon? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
So I sat through the service trying to keep my 2 small children quiet and occupied, with spouse up front...

When I get the question, which hat do I wear to answer?
The voice coach
The artistic director
The theological jousting partner
The slightly frazzled 'single' parent who only heard half of it
Or the loving wife who heard it twice already in rehearsals?....

Have I gone past the point of gleaning spiritual insight from the Sunday sermon or do I need to go somewhere else to get my 'God fix'. (yes I know He is everywhere, but it seems to me he sometimes plays hard to get...especially when you're playing peekaboo with an 18 month old at the same time!)

[Help]
 
Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
"No, it was good"

[Two face]
 
Posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard (# 368) on :
 
Mommy dear, mommy dear.
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
When my children were that little, I used the sermon time to go to sleep. I figured I got what I most needed out of the sermon at that time. [Biased]
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
I would say that honesty is the best policy (but not immediately after the service). Serious feedback should come later. Immediate "It was fine", will be enough for after the service.

If the reality is you can't focus on the sermon because of the need to attend to children - then you may as well say so. (Although if you need to have a discussion about how child care is shared then that deserves its own conversation, rather than being a hidden agenda in a discussion about sermon criticism!)
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Your spouse should have the sense not to ask you.
After all, he's got everyone else shaking his hand and saying 'Liked your sermon, Vicar.' What does he want from you? 'You got that bit from Buechner, didn't you?' 'It was better than the last time you preached it.' 'Did you really have to include that anecdote about my mother?'
You might say, 'Honey, I was keeping the kids quiet. I couldn't possibly pay attention to you.' Or else, 'It was fine.'
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
It sounds like the male equivalent of 'Does my bum look big in this?' Whatever you answer, it will be wrong.
 
Posted by Custard (# 5402) on :
 
When I ask my wife what she thought of my sermon, I want an honest critical appraisal of it. She knows that, because we've discussed it before, and so that's what she gives me. Content, delivery, faithfulness to passage, length, application, annoying mannerisms, the lot. And if it was rubbish, she'll lovingly tell me that it wasn't one of my better efforts.

It's great being married to someone who can honestly and lovingly tell me what she really thinks about my preaching. I don't especially like platitudes. I once heard an older and wiser preacher say how important it is to cultivate your critics, even marry them!

If she was distracted looking after kids, and I asked her what she thought of my sermon, I'd expect her to say she was distracted looking after kids, and that would be fine. I'd value her important contribution in looking after the kids, and check that she was still getting fed spiritually.

YMMV of course - so much depends on the characters of the preacher and spouse and the nature of their relationship.
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
May your marriage live long and prosper, custard. It sounds like it is going well, certainly from your end. And if you regularly tell her these kinds of things, likely also from her POV. [Smile]
 
Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
When I ask my wife what she thought of my sermon, I want an honest critical appraisal of it. She knows that, because we've discussed it before, and so that's what she gives me. Content, delivery, faithfulness to passage, length, application, annoying mannerisms, the lot. And if it was rubbish, she'll lovingly tell me that it wasn't one of my better efforts.
All of which I think points to the fact that you need to have a conversation w/ your spouse. but not on a Sunday. Some other day, ask him what he needs from you, at different times during the process. At what point prior to Sunday would he appreciate input re content or delivery, and at what point is it really too late to change stream?

A particularly important question would be "what do you need from me on Sundays?" You probably already know this, but Sundays are exhausting for clergy-- four or five hours of work feel like 10-15 of a normal work day, everything is compressed an intense. What does he need from you before the service? After?

At the point when he's asking the question, I'd feed it back a bit to try and get at what he wants, "was there something you were concerned about? How did you feel? What did you hear from others?" before responding.

At the same time, I think it's important for you to be honest about what you need as well, and particularly what Sundays are like for you. Precisely because it is an intense, demanding, exhausting time for him, it is also an intense, demanding time for you as you essentially become single mom. Feel free to tell him you're not up to giving him the detailed critique he may be asking for.

Having been on both sides of the clergy partnership equation, I think negotiating some sort of workable plan/pattern for Sundays is essential. Having some advance planning about what each of you needs in terms of space alone, feedback, time w/ family, time w/ congregants, and even meals and down time is absolutely vital to both of your spiritual health and well-being.
 
Posted by Polly (# 1107) on :
 
Mrs Tubbs feels your pain. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Even when you don't have kids to distract you, it's a difficult question to answer. I was once asked to rate the trainee priest's sermon, using a critical analysis form. It was not easy and I didn't enjoy doing it - it makes you aware how hard it must be to prepare and deliver a good sermon.
 
Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
Thanks again for your thoughtful replies, as you may have picked up from my other thread, my husband is an ordinand at the moment and I (amoung others) am beginning to adjust to the implications for us of their calling.

I think we went into this with our eyes open, but there are so many ways in which our lives have already been affected, and I think the more prepared we are as a couple when we move on to the next stage, the better it will be for our whole family. I've found the points about being clear what is wanted from me (in regards to sermons and Sundays) and what I need from Chris particularly helpful.

I wonder if you could expand on one area for me? Pre children, I used to find sermons quite stimulating and thought provoking and an important part of the service, but have found it much harder to concentrate in the last 3 years. Now that my other half is going to be delivering the sermon (and I therefor at least initially, will have at least some idea about the content before hand) I'm wondering whether I will 'get anything' from them?

Would you recommend getting the kids into Sunday school ASAP and then going to a different church to get some spiritual input or do you think there's plenty to be got fom a spouses sermon anyway? (please note, I'm not commenting on my husbands' ability to preach - I happen to think he's pretty good - its just that, particularly at the moment, I've usually heard it at least once before he does it for real)

I'm not sure I'm explaining myself very well, I think I'm after that moment of clarity when the bible reading suddenly makes sense, or you get a verbal kick up the bum, it all seems more powerful in the middle of a service in church. I suppose I'm asking whether I'll get that back when the children are older and my husband delivers the sermon without practising on me first, or do you think it won't be the same now anyway because i know the preacher so well?
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
I heard this story from a minister.

One Sunday as soon as he and his wife got home from church, she started panning his sermon. He said, "Please don't bother me now; I've just delivered a sermon." She replied, "I thought you would like to know if it was stillborn."

Moo

[ 07. May 2012, 21:50: Message edited by: Moo ]
 
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Achromat:
Or the loving wife who heard it twice already in rehearsals?....

[Help]
You had to listen to him rehearse it twice? [Eek!]

Tell him to video himself during the service, and leave you alone!
 
Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
In preaching class, the feedback we have to give each other after each homily has three questions:

1) Did you hear good news? If so, what?
2) Commendations. (at least 2)
3) Recommendations. (at least 1)

Outside of class, I'll always thank someone for preaching whether I liked it or not. If I did like it, I'll try to tell them why and whether it was something generally applicable, or if it was just what I really needed to hear that day. If I thought there was something problematic about it... I try and save that until we're both in a good mood.
 
Posted by rhflan (# 17092) on :
 
I'm not sure how old your children are, or how often you spend the sermon keeping them quiet...but if it's a normal occurrence, perhaps just mention that to your partner.

From my perspective, I'm not even sure that the sermon is the most important part of a service. This past Sunday I think that I got more out of the "children's time" up front than the actual sermon. Off the top of my head, I couldn't even tell you what the sermon was about.

(but don't tell the pastor!)
 
Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Achromat:

I wonder if you could expand on one area for me? Pre children, I used to find sermons quite stimulating and thought provoking and an important part of the service, but have found it much harder to concentrate in the last 3 years. Now that my other half is going to be delivering the sermon (and I therefor at least initially, will have at least some idea about the content before hand) I'm wondering whether I will 'get anything' from them?

Would you recommend getting the kids into Sunday school ASAP and then going to a different church to get some spiritual input or do you think there's plenty to be got fom a spouses sermon anyway? (please note, I'm not commenting on my husbands' ability to preach - I happen to think he's pretty good - its just that, particularly at the moment, I've usually heard it at least once before he does it for real)

I'm not sure I'm explaining myself very well, I think I'm after that moment of clarity when the bible reading suddenly makes sense, or you get a verbal kick up the bum, it all seems more powerful in the middle of a service in church. I suppose I'm asking whether I'll get that back when the children are older and my husband delivers the sermon without practising on me first, or do you think it won't be the same now anyway because i know the preacher so well?
I do think it's hard to "get much" from the service, particularly the sermon, when you're supervising very young children. That does get better as they get older and learn to listen, or at least draw quietly. I think it's important for children to be in "adult" worship, but it is a developmental thing. You probably know this is a controversial topic with many different strong opinions, but fwiw I favor having young children in the service initially only for a small "bite size" portion (approx. 20 min.-- some singling, a prayer, some Scripture), increasing as they get older.

There's also a lot of debate (as you see on a thread in heaven) about whether clergy spouses need to attend the church their spouse serves at. fwiw, I think it's a tremendous gift if you can. It aids his ministry, and I think there is something powerful in the message you send your kids-- this is "our" community, our family. With all their warts and weaknesses, this is our people.

But you need to have your spiritual needs met, so that you can be there for your kids and your spouse. That may mean advocating for nursery care during the service, if it doesn't exist already-- paid, if necessary. It may mean joining a Bible study or book club one night a week (at your church or another) and expecting hubby to work his schedule around that one thing.

It's a delicate balance, no one right answer. The worship thing does get easier as your kids get older, but then you'll have other challenges (being a "PK" is a lot easier when you're an adorable toddler than when you're a sulky teen-- you have that to look forward to).

And, fwiw, I think asking you to listen to the sermon 3x is a bit much. Nice of you to do so, but perhaps a job that can be taken off your plate....

Again, I'd say some honest conversations are in order, as you try to find a work/church/home balance that works for you. Carving out some rituals that make sense for your family and give you each what you need. It's surprising the small little things that can make a huge difference. There was a period of time when I was serving at a very difficult church, lots of conflict. We started a ritual of going to a particular restaurant after church on Sunday-- not too far (so we weren't starved, but far enough we weren't apt to run into anyone from church. Same place every Sunday, so didn't even have to think, just drive there by rote. It became so healing and such a great place to "detox" that even today I find it a peaceful place to dine.

Find a ritual like that that works for you.
 
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :
 
Achromat, just point your best beloved to this thread. He'll get the message.

When he gets the care of souls, the only thing he really needs to hear is: Did I do serious damage today? This question he should never have to ask you; you should never hesitate to offer an affirmative answer.

Two rehearsals? Next time he asks this service from you, leading your nervous nellie to the nearest mirror and close the door behind you. Or, to the empty hall where he will deliver his address. Either will do fine.

You have two small children; he will have an squirming, infantile congregation. It's a fair division of labor.

As for your God Fix: I'm not sure of your liturgical tradition, but stopping looking for God in the sermon. You'll only find your beloved, but flawed, partner. Start looking elsewhere for God. In the liturgy, in the fellowship, in the blessings of the day. Those are where He may find you.
 
Posted by Johnny S (# 12581) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
It sounds like the male equivalent of 'Does my bum look big in this?' Whatever you answer, it will be wrong.
Even before I came to this post my suggested response was going to be, "Could you just take a few steps back, dear, I need to take it all in."
 
Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
Both my parents regularly preached, but it was the marks out of 17 I gave my Dad for tunefulness (17, because that was the number of words he had to sing solo during the Eucharistic prayer on the sung setting most commonly used in that church) that were the most regular feature of Sunday lunch criticism.

Probably not the best thing to do, looking back on it...

Honestly speaking, if you're hearing the sermon for the third time, I'm not sure what more you could add (though Hart's advice is wise). Get a mirror put in the loo for practising...
 
Posted by Custard (# 5402) on :
 
In terms of being fed yourself, I guess it's worth saying the following:
 
Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
sounds like stage nerves. you already heard the damn thing in rehearsals, right? you know the content. if he were going to say something horrific, you would have said so then. But this time, he got up under the spot, as it were, in front of the audience, and delivered.

He needs to know how he performed. nothing to do with content, everything to do with stage fright and the innate need all performers have to hear that the people love them. It's a diva thing. (he doesn't get applause, right? so he's got nothing to hang his hat on!)

generally, in the moment, you smile and gush the clerical equivalent of "you kicked their asses out there!" no matter what. if he says, "but I stumbled and called Leviticus 'Levi's Tukas'!" you say, "oh hush, hardly anybody noticed." or "I'm pretty sure most people think you meant that..." or "hey, but it was funny! and you recovered well..."

and you say these things because he needs to complete his performance without dissolving. honesty has nothing to do with it. (not that you should lie - spin, baby, spin) positive and upbeat until final curtain/end of coffee hour.

Then, over dinner, you give what us stage whores call "notes" - things like:

wait for the chuckles to die down after your sheep shagging joke before making your next point, you lost your words there.

get your nose out of your notes and make some eye contact.

project your voice, the back row couldn't hear you.

Smile, dammit, you're scaring the children.

whatever.

As for trying to make these observations while kid wrangling - oi! no nursery, then? again, at dinner, when he's not still "on" - tell him he's lucky you are even there and he needs his feedback/notes from someone else who is able to observe. if he wants you to observe and be clued in, perhaps he can help you find someone to chase the wee beasties around the yard outside.

I can't help with finding god - I haven't seen him in church in a long time. I find him in the forest or in a camp fire or in playing with my kids or when gazing at the stars.
 
Posted by Arch Anglo Catholic (# 15181) on :
 
You could, if feeling a bit mean, answer in the same manner as the apocryphal Bishop:
"The sermon was like the peace of God and like the mercy of God"
"Like the peace of God it passeth all understanding and like the mercy of God it endureth forerver"

Then run away quick!
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
Once, when an old minister of mine gave an unusually short sermon (having SAID that it would be short, but no-one really believed him), three women held up scorecards with marks out of 10. His wife was one of them.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Comet's right. If he's an ordinand, he's looking for reassurance. Give it to him (if at all possible). After all, he's got no time machine, he can't go back and RE-deliver the darn thing. Pick out the good and focus on it. (Consider it practice for when your kids are old enough to be in the school play.)

After this preaching becomes old hat to him, if he's still asking you, then you can sit down with him and ask precisely what he wants to know.

[ 08. May 2012, 11:53: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
 
Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
sounds like stage nerves. you already heard the damn thing in rehearsals, right? you know the content. if he were going to say something horrific, you would have said so then. But this time, he got up under the spot, as it were, in front of the audience,
....

I can't help with finding god - I haven't seen him in church in a long time. I find him in the forest or in a camp fire or in playing with my kids or when gazing at the stars.
Thank you Comet! I think your right, he's just trying to get the 'performance' right and make sure he's 'reading the audience'. We've got another year till ordination, and I suspect then there will be far fewer run throughs at home (I doubt there'll be th time for such luxury then!) I might have to use some of your remarks though!

As for finding God? I do find him easier to find in the places you suggest....but it would be nice if I could find him in church too! I think its my head trying to make sense of my faith...
 
Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Arch Anglo Catholic:
You could, if feeling a bit mean, answer in the same manner as the apocryphal Bishop:
"The sermon was like the peace of God and like the mercy of God"
"Like the peace of God it passeth all understanding and like the mercy of God it endureth forerver"

Then run away quick!
Snigger!
 
Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
In terms of being fed yourself, I guess it's worth saying the following:
Thank you Custard, once again you have given me thoughtful and practical advice. I do intend to go to 'his' church, and I'm looking forward to it, but I was wondering what it would be like to have the same parish priest for the rest of my life. (he's from a vicarage family, and I know his sisters particularly have found it difficult to settle in a church because they were so used to their dad being up front...I just wondered if there was an inverse reaction for spouses?)
 
Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
Achromat, just point your best beloved to this thread.

Two rehearsals?

You have two small children; he will have an squirming, infantile congregation. It's a fair division of labor.

As for your God Fix: I'm not sure of your liturgical tradition, but stopping looking for God in the sermon. You'll only find your beloved, but flawed, partner. Start looking elsewhere for God. In the liturgy, in the fellowship, in the blessings of the day. Those are where He may find you.
Hi Silent Acolyte,
I'm not sure I want to point him to this thread! I don't actually mind he rehearsals ATM and I'm assuming that once he's 'a pro' they'll get less anyway....I think he's trying to start out on the right foot (the last church we were members of the sermons were dire and a lesson in how not to preach, so he's just making sure he doesn't go down that path...)

I think you're right about the God Fix though, I just need to relax a bit more a let him in...I think I'm just missing the mental stimulus that a good sermon can give (when heard for the first time), which is not the same as encountering God at all...I think I've been looking to hard and blaming the kids (and hubby) for 'getting in the way' of my spiritual growth...when I know deep down that they are part of the solution not the problem...

So I shall go and take advantage of nap time
 
Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
It's a delicate balance, no one right answer. The worship thing does get easier as your kids get older, but then you'll have other challenges (being a "PK" is a lot easier when you're an adorable toddler than when you're a sulky teen-- you have that to look forward to).

Again, I'd say some honest conversations are in order, as you try to find a work/church/home balance that works for you. Carving out some rituals that make sense for your family and give you each what you need.

Find a ritual like that that works for you. [/QB]
Thanks cliffdweller, there is much to think on especially about the children!, and your comments about family ritual are well made, we'll need to think about this when we're in a parish, also thanks for the tip about th thread on Heaven, I'm still finding my way around this site and haven't been there yet
[Smile]
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
You ask where else you might get teaching from? With young children, I found that it was helpful to have books in the bathroom and beside the bed for those wonderful snatched moments when you can read the odd chapter. I prefer books at the more theological end of the spectrum to the usual Christian Bookshop fare, but whatever floats your boat. You can also buy books of sermons, which can be read in short snatches.
 
Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Achromat:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
It's a delicate balance, no one right answer. The worship thing does get easier as your kids get older, but then you'll have other challenges (being a "PK" is a lot easier when you're an adorable toddler than when you're a sulky teen-- you have that to look forward to).

Again, I'd say some honest conversations are in order, as you try to find a work/church/home balance that works for you. Carving out some rituals that make sense for your family and give you each what you need.

Find a ritual like that that works for you.
Thanks cliffdweller, there is much to think on especially about the children!, and your comments about family ritual are well made, we'll need to think about this when we're in a parish, also thanks for the tip about th thread on Heaven, I'm still finding my way around this site and haven't been there yet
[Smile] [/QB]
fyi: I remembered wrong, the thread is here in Purg-- "clergy spouses".
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Polly:
Mrs Tubbs feels your pain. [Big Grin]
But darling, your preaches are always marvellous! [Razz]

I always tell him that he was very good - because he usually is - and if there's something I've noticed, then I say. TBH, if he wants proper, constructive feedback, he's better asking someone else. I'm too close to evaluate it properly.

[ETA: Although, reading this thread, I'm grateful that the most he's ever asked me before the service is either can I do < blah > or what do I think about < blah >. Asking your spouse to listen to you rehearse your sermon seems like grounds to me].

Tubbs

[ 08. May 2012, 14:58: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
My wife tends to say (in the car, coming home): "I wonder why you didn't say ...?" or "If I'd been speaking, I'd have ...". This can be helpful ... or not!

Having that, she freely acknowledges that the way her brain functions and the style in which she learns are different to mine!

I once had a Church Secretary who used to point out all my Spoonerisms, after the service. There do tend to be quite a few as my mouth works more quickly than my poor addled brain.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
He won't be able to keep up rehearsing each sermon in full twice long-term.
Why not? The senior minister where I work has preached almost 1500 sermons (I know because he numbers them!) and he rehearses each one in full by himself, then with his wife, and then again by himself. Every week. Me, I'd have strangled the guy by now, but his wife is a patient soul.
 
Posted by Polly (# 1107) on :
 
After speaking to various friends who are pastors we all seem to suffer a bit directly after our sermons. We feel quite vulnerable. [Cool]

It's an awesome responsibility and it takes all ones energy and will power not to deck someone who comes out with a nick picking comment. [Devil]

The questions I most ask Mrs Tubbs are...

"Is there anything you wish I had have said more on?"
"is there anything you wish I had not said?"

For example when I was describing the the two men in white after Jesus ascended we both wish I did not say "the two white men>>>" [Roll Eyes] Purely accidental!

As a (newbie) Pastor my wife and her spiritual needs to of the upmost importance. Whatever you decide you want to to ensure you are fed is important for both of you.

What I would add is that you don't feel pressured to be a certain type of person. Be yourself and take your time to settle in and not jump at the first good thing that you find.

Every blessing with your journey.
 
Posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis (# 3886) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
He won't be able to keep up rehearsing each sermon in full twice long-term.
Why not? The senior minister where I work has preached almost 1500 sermons (I know because he numbers them!) and he rehearses each one in full by himself, then with his wife, and then again by himself. Every week. Me, I'd have strangled the guy by now, but his wife is a patient soul.
You mention a senior minister- presumably he has junior assistants as well, and where you work- I seem to recall you have an adminstrative support role. The norm in the Cof E is a vicar working alone, with no junior ministers or administrative support (or perhaps a volunteer for just a few hours a week) and responsible for several churches, hence no time to rehearse sermons.
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I heard this story from a minister.

One Sunday as soon as he and his wife got home from church, she started panning his sermon. He said, "Please don't bother me now; I've just delivered a sermon." She replied, "I thought you would like to know if it was stillborn."

Moo
We've got a rule in this benefice that we don't comment on colleagues' sermons on the same day as they were preached.

That way, we can be honest and constructive and will have had time to reflect on how best to phrase our comments.
 
Posted by Freddy (# 365) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
We've got a rule in this benefice that we don't comment on colleagues' sermons on the same day as they were preached.
Good rule.

My wife of many years is an absolute angel when it comes to my sermons. When I occasionally discuss a sermon idea with her beforehand she often gets all teary, as if it is the most moving thing she ever heard. After church she seldom says anything about the sermon and I seldom ask her. We have plenty of other things to talk about. But other times she often says how much she loves my sermons, and we do talk about the topics.

Video of our church services are livestreamed and archived so it is easy to watch them afterwards. This is probably the most useful feedback for any preacher.
 
Posted by To The Pain (# 12235) on :
 
I thought I'd chime in with a slightly different perspective, so feel free to ignore me if this isn't relevant...

I used to have a housemate whose fiance preached on a semi-regular basis at our church and on occaision would rehearse his points on us (not his delivery), particularly if he wasn't sure about including them all or how to illustrate them or link between them. I used to really enjoy these Thursday or Friday evening wrangles as I was able to engage with the sermon in a different way and then see how it came out on the Sunday.

Of course, I wasn't married to the man in question and there were no small children to supervise, either in the preparation-wrangling or on the Sunday. I rather enjoyed seeing some of the process that went into putting a sermon together - perhaps that would be the time for me in an analogous situation when God would speak to me about the topic and the Sunday would be more about the performance aspects that Comet mentioned.

Currently at our place of a Sunday we have three services which each involve the same sermon - if you attend one of the morning services and the evening one on the same day it can be interesting to see the differences - some sermons definitely gain a bit of polish (or lose a bad joke or two), others flag as the preacher gets tired either of the message or after a very full Sunday.
 
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
"I really enjoyed your sermon; I cleared 14 levels of Angry Birds during it."
 
Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by To The Pain:
I used to really enjoy these Thursday or Friday evening wrangles as I was able to engage with the sermon in a different way and then see how it came out on the Sunday.
I have to say I do enjoy the run throughs and subsequent discussion. It's a bit strange as I did theology as part of my degree several years ago, but I see to be learning much more now that it's my husband studying not me [Smile]

3 sermon deliveries in one day? That's a bit much usn't it? Are there 3 churches in the same parish, or does he just not expect people to turn up twice in one day?
 
Posted by Freddy (# 365) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by To The Pain:
Currently at our place of a Sunday we have three services which each involve the same sermon - if you attend one of the morning services and the evening one on the same day it can be interesting to see the differences - some sermons definitely gain a bit of polish (or lose a bad joke or two), others flag as the preacher gets tired either of the message or after a very full Sunday.
I was at a church where there three service with the same minister and the same topic, but very different styles at each service. One was a normal sermon given to adults, another to children and families, a third in a more contemporary style with audience participation, acting, etc. It was interesting how topics morphed.
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
The only time we get the same sermon is at weddings. As a choir member, I attend a lot of weddings and know the sermon off by heart. But as not many people get married twice, they all think it's original.
 
Posted by Padre Joshua (# 13100) on :
 
I've done two quite often; Circuit Rider, true to his name, rides a circuit of two churches and I've covered for him on numerous occasions. I expect three wouldn't be much different.

I don't preach from notes, so each one turns out different from the other. I also don't rehearse (never have, even as a newbie). But then, each congregation is unique, and I'm able to tailor my delivery to the listeners.

When I ask "how was my sermon", I'm really asking if I said anything blatantly heretical or offensive. The rest we'll hash out later.
 
Posted by Johnny S (# 12581) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
I don't preach from notes, so each one turns out different from the other. I also don't rehearse (never have, even as a newbie). But then, each congregation is unique, and I'm able to tailor my delivery to the listeners.

When I ask "how was my sermon", I'm really asking if I said anything blatantly heretical or offensive. The rest we'll hash out later.
I thought that rehearsing was done because it was much better to ask if there is anything heretical or offensive in the sermon before delivery than after.
 
Posted by Padre Joshua (# 13100) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny S:
quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
I don't preach from notes, so each one turns out different from the other. I also don't rehearse (never have, even as a newbie). But then, each congregation is unique, and I'm able to tailor my delivery to the listeners.

When I ask "how was my sermon", I'm really asking if I said anything blatantly heretical or offensive. The rest we'll hash out later.
I thought that rehearsing was done because it was much better to ask if there is anything heretical or offensive in the sermon before delivery than after.
Lol, true. Sometimes tongue doesn't pay attention to brain, however.
 
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Well I thouught it was splendid but perhaps we should request a visit from a mystery Worshipper... [Smile]
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Reading this thread makes me think of a notice on the pulpit, after this, saying 'How was my sermon?' and people texting in their comments as the rest of the service progresses. [Ultra confused]
 
Posted by Johnny S (# 12581) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
Lol, true. Sometimes tongue doesn't pay attention to brain, however.
Although you could rehearse in front of someone else though.

For the first 3 years of full-time ministry I rehearsed every sermon in front of my wife on Thursday night. Then went into the office and edited it massively on Friday.

When I became a senior pastor I had too many sermons a week to do that though so I stopped and now I just rehearse on my own (and yes, that comment is on the right thread). My wife just thinks I took pity on her though.
 
Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 
And suddenly I realise just how lucky I am that my input into Mr Beets' sermon preparation is limited to reading the occasional sermon the night before it's delivered! [Smile]

I don't think he's ever asked me for feedback after the event - maybe he realised just how little I was likely to have heard when the Opuses were smaller. To this day I don't think I've ever managed to provide useful feedback, despite the number of times I've heard him...
 
Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
If you were too preoccupied with the children to take in any of it then I think you should be honest and say so. If you were able to take in some of it, you may be able to give a semi-constructive reply along the lines of, "I particularly liked the bit where you hopped up to the edge of the pulpit and did an albatross impression but it didn't work quite so well for me when you set fire to the hangings to demonstrate the Day of Pentecost." You could beam lovingly at him and give him the thumbs up as soon as he's finished and then pre-empt the question afterwards by asking, "So - were you pleased with your sermon?" [Smile]
 
Posted by To The Pain (# 12235) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Achromat:
quote:
Originally posted by To The Pain:
I used to really enjoy these Thursday or Friday evening wrangles as I was able to engage with the sermon in a different way and then see how it came out on the Sunday.
I have to say I do enjoy the run throughs and subsequent discussion. It's a bit strange as I did theology as part of my degree several years ago, but I see to be learning much more now that it's my husband studying not me [Smile]

3 sermon deliveries in one day? That's a bit much usn't it? Are there 3 churches in the same parish, or does he just not expect people to turn up twice in one day?
It is interesting, isn't it - once something becomes less of an academic exercise and more about communicating it as a message designed for application you see it in a totally different way. Maybe this process can be the time where you really gain from and learn about the sermon topics, rather than when everyone else hears them 'cold' on a Sunday. Might mean that your spiritual food week (if you get my drift) operates on a different rhythm to that of the rest of the congregation, but hopefully will still be edifying.

We have three services because we're too big for our building. Whoever's preaching does the sermon at the 10am service, pops up the road to preach at the 11am service that meets in the building of a neighbouring church (who are also too big for their building on a Sunday morning so meet in a school) and comes back in the evening to preach at the 7pm service. There's a little overlap between the morning and evening services, but mostly it's a different set of folk.
 
Posted by Achromat (# 17098) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Reading this thread makes me think of a notice on the pulpit, after this, saying 'How was my sermon?' and people texting in their comments as the rest of the service progresses. [Ultra confused]
Oh Chorister, can you imagine...? You could have a deacon reading out the best responses as the Eucharistic prayer progressed...!
your point about the wedding sermon was familiar...not just weddings though...after a few years in the choir I could do the sermons for 'stir up Sunday' st George's and rogation too...the guy had been there 40 years...fortunately in my teens we got someone new and church became a bit more interesting again [Smile]
 


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