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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Modesty, Convention and Consideration.
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
Grossness alert!
I don’t think I ever saw either of my parents naked.
We were not worried about being unclothed in front of our own kids while they were small (up to 5-6), and my son and daughter-in-law are even less concerned about their kids (boy 10, girl 5), with whom they have baths and showers.
A man I knew reasonably well, but in a business context, once answered the door to me naked, having just got out of the shower, and with his kids (eldest in teens) running around the house.
What got me thinking about this subject was a discussion I read recently which dealt specifically with couples, and was prompted by a woman’s complaint about her husband’s or partner’s lack of boundaries.
Voltaire famously remarked that “no man is a hero to his valet” (as all Shippies with valets will have realized by now), and the commentator was suggesting that while no partner in a marriage can remain a figure of glamour to their spouse, a skerrick of mystery can be maintained by insisting that certain tasks be performed strictly alone.
Her list included defecating, urinating, farting, inserting and removing tampons, cutting toe-nails, hair removal (particularly nasal hair) and dealing with pimples and blackheads.
Mrs KC and I agree with her, but obviously opinions about the limits of privacy within families and partnerships are highly subjective, and based to a large extent on one’s own upbringing.
Is that all there is to it?
Or, in an era in which former seemingly self-evident rules of modesty have pretty much disappeared, are there still principles involved which go beyond the basic axiom of “Consider other people”?
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
... Or, in an era in which former seemingly self-evident rules of modesty have pretty much disappeared, are there still principles involved which go beyond the basic axiom of “Consider other people”?
Are we talking about public behaviour or behaviour in the home? OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Meerkat
Suricata suricatta
# 16117
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Posted
No problem with nakedness in this house & garden. We know who of family & friends are comfortable with it and are clothed with those who are not so comfortable.
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Simples!
Posts: 160 | From: Herts, UK | Registered: Jan 2011
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by OliviaG:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
... Or, in an era in which former seemingly self-evident rules of modesty have pretty much disappeared, are there still principles involved which go beyond the basic axiom of “Consider other people”?
Are we talking about public behaviour or behaviour in the home? OliviaG
Home
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Kaplan Corday: Home
But answering the doorbell.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
When you have small children, modesty etc goes out of the window. Eg: the smallest Blackling, aged 20 months, has recently taken to crashing into the en suite whilst I'm having a pee, grabbing hold of the toilet and sticking his head over the edge (so much so that I have to watch where my...er...'stream' goes) and pointing and shouting "Wee wee!"
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
After 17 years of marriage I can confidently say that if I ever saw my husband on the toilet, or he saw me in the same situation, the marriage would be OVER. Those are my boundaries, not his. But I have managed to maintain them over the aforementioned 17 years while raising two children (now 12 and 14) in a single-bathroom house.
We all have our priorities. For practical reasons, due to the single bathroom, we have all agreed to treat the shower curtain as if it were a bathroom door so that one person may use the toilet while another is getting a shower, but no-one is ever allowed to catch a glimpse of me engaged in that activity nor, since the days of potty-training my children, do I ever wish to see another member of the household in that state.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Mum often used to come and sit on the loo while I was in the bath and have a chat, and vice verca.
I was the same with my boys - until puberty hit of course, then the bathroom door lock was employed.
I remember one day I was in the bath and my 4 year old came in for a wee and said "Mummy, you have no willy?" I said "No love, girls and ladies don't have them" He replied "Never mind, I buy you one from Tesco"
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
We have three bathrooms now, so any amount of privacy is possible.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I agree that there should be limits as a matter of simple respect, and the list in the OP sounds about right.
My mother used to keep finding excuses to come into the bathroom or else to wander around naked in the house when we would see her. Also to strike up conversations about personal things. I suppose she thought it would help us to not be embarrassed but I remember it used to make me feel really awful - as it did my father, so I guess I take after him. I'm not sure when a sense of personal embarrassment develops, but mine goes back as far as I can remember, certainly to well before school age.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
I wonder, if parents wander around naked, might a child find nakedness less of a sexual stimulus as an adult?
In my own family experience, most of the list in the op were observed as courtesies. We helped each other with spots.
And thank you for 'skerrick', a new word to me.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Anyuta
Shipmate
# 14692
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Posted
at home? my boundaries are fairly lax. with husband.. pretty much no boundaries other than not doing anything stinky in a poorly ventilated space when the other person is there. My husband doesn't like seeing me perform certain personal hygene tasks, and so out of respect for him I won't do them when he's around, but on my end I don't care. the tasks we are talking about are not the most obvious. things like plucking hairs.
with the kids, there are a few more boundaries, particularly when we are talking about opposite sex child/parent. but even there, it's fairly loose. we all tend to leave the door open to the bathroom, and hold conversations. DH will cover the most esential area when my daughter is around, but not much more than that. DS is now going through puberty and has become generally more private (not just about these things, but EVERYTHING). Even so, he will walk around in his undies and nothing else. I have changed before while he was in the room (but not looking at me.. focused on the computer). I'll warn him "I"m changing, don't look". the set up of the room is such that one would have to go out of one's way to look from the computer to my changing area.
so yeah, we're fairly open about all of this. not to the point of walking around the house completely nude where an opposite sex family member (other than spouse) will see, though.
I'm trying to train the kids to knock before walking into my bedroom. that room serves as the computer room, and we also often watch TV in there instead of the family room, so it feels a bit like grand central station sometimes. we rarely shut the door, but I'm trying to teach them that if the door IS closed, it's polite to knock. so there are certain marital moments we do NOT want the kids to see (nor do they want to see!!)
does a more open approach to nudity in the home translate into less sexual association with nudity elsewhere? perhaps somewhat in truly non-sexual scenarios, but generally I think that it doesn't seem to correlate. because seeing your parent/child almost nude is NOT the same as seeing an attractive member of the opposite sex to whom you are not related nude. two different reactions. it may, however, translate into not getting overly worked up about nudity where the other person is NOT an object of potential sexual desire.
Posts: 764 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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Aggie
Ship's cat
# 4385
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Posted
My parents were both quite bohemian for their time and generation, and used to sunbathe nude in the garden, and on designated naturist beaches and this never bothered me. Although, personally, I don't and wouldn't do this.
I can remember my mother doing the ironing in the garden in the nude one hot summer's day ("too nice to be indoors"), and the lady next door popping round to borrow something, and her eyes nearly popping out of her head as she caught sight of my mother. I let the neighbour in and led her into the garden, not thinking that she would find it embarrassing, as I considered what my mother was doing to be fairly "normal" - as I say I was very used to my parents' eccentric and bohemian ways.
My father used to fart and belch quite openly at home and in the car - much to my mother's disgust (and mine!), but I never saw either of my parents on the toilet or in the bath or shower. And when I was toilet-trained, and old enough to use the toilet by myself as a child, the rule was always "close and lock the door, we don't want to know/hear what you're doing in there!"
[ 15. May 2012, 15:13: Message edited by: Aggie ]
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“I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.”
(Joseph Mary Plunkett 1887-1917)
Posts: 581 | From: A crazy, crazy world | Registered: Apr 2003
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
I always used to knock before walking into my son's bedroom, from when he was about 4, so he understood about private space.
Adults can make their own decisions but I think it's very important to respect a child's boundaries and not impose anything that makes them uncomfortable.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
After 17 years of marriage I can confidently say that if I ever saw my husband on the toilet, or he saw me in the same situation, the marriage would be OVER.
Don't be so sure. My father has Parkinson's disease, and I doubt very much that at the 17-year mark my mother had any idea she'd be doing some of the things she does for him now after over 50 years of marriage.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Between my partner's and my health problems -- let's just say that after six years we have NO secrets anymore regarding one another's alimentary systems.
On a daily basis...it's not that we just walk into one another's bathroom willy-nilly, but we usually at least ask if it's, erm, safe to enter, if one of us needs an item in the other bathroom.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
This thread has made me realize that I must be quite modest .
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Poptart22
Shipmate
# 17096
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Posted
Part of me wonders if my parents were more open about nudity as a small child (before I knew to be embarrassed by any of that) but I still may have been squeamish as I am today about a lot of things.
I shoot Suicide Girls photos. Nudity doesn't faze me a bit. In our house, we always close the door going to the bathroom but we feel totally comfortable walking around nude (she prefers to make sure all the blinds are shut, I don't care because we're on the second floor). I think female bodies are beautiful, and I certainly don't mind any time I get to see them. As for children, I absolutely do not want any, so I can't really figure out how I'd really feel about nudity and children in my house.
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http://bibuddhistrn.blogspot.com/
Posts: 67 | Registered: May 2012
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Mockingale
Shipmate
# 16599
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
Or, in an era in which former seemingly self-evident rules of modesty have pretty much disappeared, are there still principles involved which go beyond the basic axiom of “Consider other people”?
I've noticed a pattern. It seems that you have some anecdote about someone you know or read about acting in a troublesome manner. You then extrapolate from that that all liberal Christians have no sense of sexual morality, or that "former rules of modesty have pretty much disappeared."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't see very many nude people marching around in public with their bits flapping in the breeze. Why do a few oddballs represent a societal trend?
Posts: 679 | From: Connectilando | Registered: Aug 2011
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Nudity happens. If caught in that state, shrug and carry on. Or titter loudly, as you may wish. Nuns taught me the concept of "custody of the eyes" and I find this useful, even today.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Nudity happens. If caught in that state, shrug and carry on. Or titter loudly, as you may wish. Nuns taught me the concept of "custody of the eyes" and I find this useful, even today.
Well, yes. There is an element of "If you don't want to see, nobody's forcing you to look", and I actually agree with that to a large extent.
However, there's a difference between catching a glimpse of something that wasn't meant to be seen and space that should be comfortable private or communal space in the home being taken advantage of.
I grew up in a household where we loved toilet humour. We would howl with laughter seeing people be so casual about such things on the television. It was funny because it was so far removed from our own experience that it seemed outrageous. We would never dream of breaking wind in each other's presence, and if one of us thought we could get away with a sneaky one while alone in the front room but someone came in before it had dissipated, it simply wouldn't be acknowledged for the avoidance of embarrassment.
Even today, my boundaries lie firmly there. I don't want to be inhaling air that has just come out of somebody else's intestines, with all that this entails, and I don't think that this is unreasonable. I understand that accidents happen and that's fine but I'm always shocked when Jim Royle comes to life, and I find myself in the company of people who seem to have absolutely no qualms in leaning their bum to one side and forcing one out in the presence of other people, only to then expres great pride in what they have just done. This happened often where I used to work.
It is a matter of upbringing. Often, these are not inconsiderate people but rather people who have a very fine code of morals and respect for other people. It's just that this is one of the things that they don't consider to be a transgression of that consideration for others because, for as long as they can remember, it has been a normal thing to do around other people. Their parents probably did it, their brothers and sisters did it, and everyone laughed. I find it disgusting and try to create a safe distance between myelf and the source when I hear evidence of this.
Another example is nail clippings. Where I grew up, most people walk about in flip-flops or barefoot unless they're at church, school, or work. When visiting another person's house, it is customary to leave one's shoes at the door. Seeing and having contact with other people's feet is not at all uncommon, so seeing a friend or family member cutting his toe-nails isn't that big a deal for me. In Britain, the culture and the colder climate mean that feet tend to be covered up much more. Even when in their own homes, most people will walk about in slippers or at least a pair of socks. When they are on display for fashion, toenails tend to be painted or otherwise decorated and not just bare for all to see. So people view toenails differently here, as a much more private thing, and I suppose cutting toenails in the company of friends might not be viewed so casually by most as it is by me.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Astley:
... So people view toenails differently here, as a much more private thing, and I suppose cutting toenails in the company of friends might not be viewed so casually by most as it is by me.
See, I don't think the actual clipping of the (toe)nails is icky. It's the fact that the clippings sometimes fly in random directions that is problematic. It seems reasonable to clip where you can pick up all your clippings or where they don't matter -- at home, that might mean the bathroom or the back yard. And to do it at a distance from others. Ditto for nail filing - who wants pulverized nails all over their clothes or furniture? OliviaG
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Around wife (as newlyweds), I doubt there will be much clothing in evidence. Showers may become a team sport as well. Toilet time, remains ever private.
With kids over the age of two, I foresee clothing at all times, except when I'm in the bathroom or my bedroom. I will not allow my child to bust into the bathroom, peer down into the toilet, and announce that I'm urinating. I won't let him/her do it to my wife, either. I just don't like that very much; toilet time is not a spectator sport.
I will also institute the rule my family had when we were children: Upon coming to a closed door, knock. If no answer, you may enter. However, if the door is locked, go away and leave it alone until later. Exceptions include someone dying or a house fire, but not announcements of A hit B because B called A a name. Those can be dealt with later.
I will respect my children's rooms, and their closed doors, unless I think they're doing drugs or something really bad in there. Eminent domain, and all that. But I will knock on their doors before entering, and if they say no then I can only think of a few instances when I would push the issue.
I will teach my children to respect each others' rooms, too. A cannot go and borrow a sweater from B's closet without first asking; B cannot intrude on A's study time. Et cetera.
I'm with a few other posters in that I think that "bathroom noises and smells belong in the bathroom". I do know that sometimes tummies don't like what was eaten earlier and decide to protest, and I'm not going to force a kid to sit in the bathroom all evening just because of that.
Nail clipping and filing and pimple-popping don't bother me.
You know, it boils down to common respect: I respect my spouse and kids enough to not invade their privacy, and I expect the same of them (knowing that the kids will have to learn that trait).
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
There's nudity, personal attendance to bodily functions and manners.
Nudity with family, for example in a hotel room with all members? Turn and face the wall. On the beach, face away from people. It is simply polite to do this. Don't fart.
Defecating? Do it in private, not just for the smell but also for the grand farting sound that may be an accompaniment to making a your mess. Unless it is a two hole outhouse, and someone you actually want to share such intimacies with invites you.
Urinating? Well I guess there's a certain male bonding and intimacy that results from peeing into the bushes or off a cliff together, while chatting, about sports and other manly things.
[oh no!]
There's a reality TV show in here somewhere.
![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
[/oh no!]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
Urinating? Well I guess there's a certain male bonding and intimacy that results from peeing into the bushes or off a cliff together, while chatting, about sports and other manly things
Well it may be cultural thing, because here the Man Code is that one never, ever talks to the other guys in the public restroom unless it's at the sink. And then one makes eye contact through the mirror, not directly. Also, it has to be small talk.
Ladies, on the other hand, seem to go to the restroom so they can talk freely, and they seem to engage with strangers quite freely and openly while sitting on the toilet, washing hands, or whatever else they do in there. Of course, I've never been in a ladies room while ladies were present (having only been sent to clean the restrooms when no one else was present), so I could be a bit off. All I have is anecdotal evidence.
ETA: I said it was a pond thing, then realized you're in Canada.
[ 16. May 2012, 00:45: Message edited by: Padre Joshua ]
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
After 17 years of marriage I can confidently say that if I ever saw my husband on the toilet, or he saw me in the same situation, the marriage would be OVER.
Don't be so sure. My father has Parkinson's disease, and I doubt very much that at the 17-year mark my mother had any idea she'd be doing some of the things she does for him now after over 50 years of marriage.
Yes, that's quite true, and I was being flippant in assuming that the status quo could be maintained forever. Age and illness may change many things. I do think, though, that I will never be able to cope with those changes gladly and easily as some people might. Well-meaning people assured me that changing diapers wouldn't bother me AT ALL when they were the diapers of my own darling children that I'd birthed out of my body, but I was revolted multiple times a day, every day, over the entire four-year period from the birth of the first child to the potty-training of the second. I think I'm just extraspecially squeamish about bodily functions. But there is that whole "better/worse, sickness/health" thing to consider.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
Urinating? Well I guess there's a certain male bonding and intimacy that results from peeing into the bushes or off a cliff together, while chatting, about sports and other manly things.
As early as primary school, where we had an open air urinal, and competed to get as far as possible up, or even over, the fence behind it.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mockingale:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
Or, in an era in which former seemingly self-evident rules of modesty have pretty much disappeared, are there still principles involved which go beyond the basic axiom of “Consider other people”?
I've noticed a pattern. It seems that you have some anecdote about someone you know or read about acting in a troublesome manner. You then extrapolate from that that all liberal Christians have no sense of sexual morality, or that "former rules of modesty have pretty much disappeared."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't see very many nude people marching around in public with their bits flapping in the breeze. Why do a few oddballs represent a societal trend?
I guess I was thinking not so much of nudity in the street, which does indeed remain fairly rare (especially in cold climates), but of things such as "ladylike" behaviour, dress and conversation, and things that were not mentioned in public, or mixed company.
For example, former generations not only did not discuss pregnancy openly as we (thank Heaven) can do, but the actual word "pregnancy" was verboten.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
... things such as "ladylike" behaviour, dress and conversation, and things that were not mentioned in public, or mixed company.
For example, former generations not only did not discuss pregnancy openly as we (thank Heaven) can do, but the actual word "pregnancy" was verboten.
I suspect the norms you miss were only norms in certain places among certain people. Not only was "pregnancy" not verboten in my family, we used proper terms to talk about body parts and functions. My mom never wore a hat. And when we came to Canada, we learned to take our shoes off when going into a house. Social and global mobility is exposing all of us to a greater variety of "norms" and social conventions. OliviaG
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by OliviaG:
I suspect the norms you miss were only norms in certain places among certain people. Not only was "pregnancy" not verboten in my family, we used proper terms to talk about body parts and functions.
I don't "miss" them, I simply note that mores have changed faster in recent decades than in the past, when they changed, but more slowly.
The word pregnancy was used in my family too, but not in my parents' families when they were young.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mockingale:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't see very many nude people marching around in public with their bits flapping in the breeze.
Marching around, no. Bicycling? World Naked Bike Ride is on June 9th in the Northern Hemisphere. Link is to a Google Map of locations. No photos. But you can Google for those yourself if you're so interested.
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
I guess I was thinking not so much of nudity in the street, which does indeed remain fairly rare (especially in cold climates), but of things such as "ladylike" behaviour, dress and conversation, and things that were not mentioned in public, or mixed company.
For example, former generations not only did not discuss pregnancy openly as we (thank Heaven) can do, but the actual word "pregnancy" was verboten.
I have a feeling your idea of "ladylike" behavior would not only be foreign to this particular lady's behavior, but to my grandmother's behavior, also. She was a registered nurse, after all, and insisted on proper names for body parts, including penis and vagina.
Actually, a lot of my body shame got burned out of me in ballet classes. When you've got 90 seconds to do a full costume change, including tights, you get whomever is wandering by backstage to help you skin off.
Honestly, though, I don't understand why you feel the need for any 'rules' for others beyond "Consider other people". You make all the rules you want for your house, and I'll consider visiting. But be aware in my house we don't wear shoes nor sleeved shirts.
[ 16. May 2012, 03:18: Message edited by: Spiffy ]
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
quote:
Originally posted by no_prophet:
Urinating? Well I guess there's a certain male bonding and intimacy that results from peeing into the bushes or off a cliff together, while chatting, about sports and other manly things
Well it may be cultural thing, because here the Man Code is that one never, ever talks to the other guys in the public restroom unless it's at the sink. And then one makes eye contact through the mirror, not directly. Also, it has to be small talk.
Ladies, on the other hand, seem to go to the restroom so they can talk freely, and they seem to engage with strangers quite freely and openly while sitting on the toilet, washing hands, or whatever else they do in there. Of course, I've never been in a ladies room while ladies were present (having only been sent to clean the restrooms when no one else was present), so I could be a bit off. All I have is anecdotal evidence.
ETA: I said it was a pond thing, then realized you're in Canada.
Actually, I think it's a plumbing thing. Also spent a lot of time in the bush, We didn't have much for plumbing outside of cities when growing up. It was common to actually pee in the bushes beside the backhouse (outhouse), leaving it for the "big jobs". Common also is little boys writing things in the snow, and so do men who've been drinking.
There's a difference when you're inside with "working facilities". It's closer to what you describe, but quite so avoidant. I've noticed Americans don't ever the use the word "toilet" or similar to describe where they're going. The more French the area, the more common in Cda.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by OliviaG:
See, I don't think the actual clipping of the (toe)nails is icky. It's the fact that the clippings sometimes fly in random directions that is problematic. OliviaG
Nah - it's when they sit there, clip the nail, then eat the clippings that lines need to be drawn!
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Yes - I speak from experience!
[ 16. May 2012, 07:01: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
These things are all to do with not exerting your views and practices to the reasonable distress of others. Norms change dramatically over fairly short time spans.
If you go to an old Georgian house where they have preserved the original furniture, you will often see the original closets and commodes in the dining room. If you wanted to relieve yourself during the meal you did so, and carried right on talking to everyone else. It was a natural function that obviously didn't worry anyone. Skip forward a few decades to the Victorian period and the invention of water closets and the situation changes dramatically.
In the classical Roman era, toilets were only ever communal affairs. Private ones didn't exist.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Honestly, though, I don't understand why you feel the need for any 'rules' for others beyond "Consider other people".
I personally expressed no need whatsoever for any rules in this area beyond "Consider other people".
I merely invited other people to say whether or not they agreed that this was sufficient.
quote:
You make all the rules you want for your house, and I'll consider visiting. But be aware in my house we don't wear shoes nor sleeved shirts.
No way I would consider going anywhere near such a nest of unshod and naked-armed libertines.
Sounds like a veritable vortex of decadence.
I used to imagine that behaviour like that existed only in the pages of Hollywood Babylon.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by OliviaG:
See, I don't think the actual clipping of the (toe)nails is icky. It's the fact that the clippings sometimes fly in random directions that is problematic. OliviaG
Nah - it's when they sit there, clip the nail, then eat the clippings that lines need to be drawn!
Yes - I speak from experience!
Eat the clippings? Hell, my two youngest trimmed their toenails with their teeth. Or rather the youngest did, until he started getting ingrown toenails from biting them too short. Whether second-youngest still does, I do not know. And being that he's 21, I do not wish to know.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lucia
Looking for light
# 15201
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Posted
I'm interested to know whether you folks here think childbirth fits into this discussion at all. In many cultures and in the past in my own one it's considered very much a women only thing but nowadays fathers are often present (I'm speaking from a UK perspective).
I'm pretty relaxed about nakedness at home and bodily functions, more so than my husband. He was with me when I gave birth to both our children but I didn't particularly want him watching the 'action' but rather up by my head with me. (He'd probably have fainted anyway if he had to watch!) Giving birth is after all a fairly undignified affair in many ways... I can imagine a guy might not quite look at that part of his partner's anatomy in quite the same way after seeing a baby arrive through it! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009
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