Ship of Fools: Workplace fellowship: why won't they come?

Thread: Workplace fellowship: why won't they come? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

I work in a large office building where we have organised a Christian fellowship group who meet on Friday lunchtimes. For some time we had a very large group and would often have standing room only in some of our meetings. Now we find those golden years are over and we have only a remnant, perhaps 6 people or sometimes fewer most weeks. Some of our number are getting frustrated that colleagues they know to be Christians no longer make the time to turn up, and wonder what we are doing wrong. We have a long list of contacts who have declared themselves Christians but who have never attended a meeting. So my topic for discussion is why wouldn’t a Christian working in such an office want to attend a weekly prayer and fellowship meeting at least on the odd occasion? Does it matter, who’s responsibility is it and what could the leaders do to improve it. This isn’t about proselytising; it’s just about getting believers together once a week to pray and discuss the scriptures.

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

I only worked one place where there were regular Christian meetings for prayer and Bible study. At least that meeting was extremely predictable -- the leaders dominated any conversation and said the exact same thing every meeting. The prayers were identical, and the province of the same group of suspects. There really wasn't any point in coming more than once AFAICS.
As always, YMMV,

--Tom Clune

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
So my topic for discussion is why wouldn’t a Christian working in such an office want to attend a weekly prayer and fellowship meeting at least on the odd occasion?

Speaking as a Christian who works in a big institution where there are a number of fellowship groups, here are some of the reasons I've heard and/or used:

They're too fundie/liberal/catholic/protestant/etc.
Lunchtime is for lunch, not group discussion.
Having to work through lunch.
The group discussions are too intellectual.
The group discussions are too dumbed-down.
The group discussions are repetitive/boring.
The group members aren't people I get on with.
I prefer not to socialise with people I work with.
Religion is something I do on Sundays, not the rest of the week.
I just can't be bothered.

...and I'm sure others could think of other reasons.

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

Yep to MtM's post. I attended my firm's Christian fellowship for a while. But despite the fact that they claimed to be ecumenical and intending to appeal to a broad range of tastes in churchmanship, the views voiced by established members were always at the right wing end of the spectrum and I didn't want to be identified with that.

Posted by Mockingale (# 16599) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
So my topic for discussion is why wouldn’t a Christian working in such an office want to attend a weekly prayer and fellowship meeting at least on the odd occasion?

I can't speak for your meeting and there's obviously a culture difference, but I know here in the U.S. a bunch of people, including me, who are decidedly Christian but of a more MOTR stripe would be loathe to attend a workplace prayer gathering. Unless you work in a church of a particular denomination, such things always get overrun with conservative evangelicals and so take on a certain flavor and are dominated by people with a certain agenda. If I'm going to pray, I'm going to pray the office. Nondenominational ad-libbed prayer meetings don't do it for me.

I am also, perhaps as a result of the pricks I knew in all the Christian clubs in high school, predisposed to find most conservative wear-it-on-your-shoulder Christians to be insufferable assholes. As I get older, I have learned that that's not at all universal or perhaps fair, but I still dread getting into a conversation about whether I'm really Christian because I attend an Episcopal church and I listen to stuff other than Christian pop.

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

It may not be anything you’ve done, just the effect of changes in work patterns that mean getting a full lunch break is the exception rather than the rule.

There isn’t a Fellowship at my work, but there are ones that meet locally. The reason I don’t go to any of them – and some of them sound right up my street – is that if I go to a meeting at lunch-time, I don’t get to do anything else. Anything else includes running errands, getting some fresh air and ensuring that everything that needs to be done today gets done.

My other reason for not going is that frankly I get to go to enough church and church related meetings without adding another one to the mix. (And that’s before you get the whole thing about The Fear that I’ll turn up and everyone else is the kind of Christians who think that Fred Phelps / Stephen Green are on the liberal end of the spectrum!)

Tubbs

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Could it simply be that Friday isn't the best day of the week. Has your place of work recently introduced flexi-time working? If so staff will take shorter lunch-times and attendance at work on Friday afternoon will be down as a whole.

It used to a be a tradition that Friday lunchtime was the day for a beer or two, so the Christians that do turn up might not be the drinking kind, which might affect the denominational make-up.

But others do have a point: the more shrill and opinionated do flock to these, and the unintended effect is often to discourage those who have doubts as well as beliefs.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Something I've noticed 30 years later than when I last had anything to do with midweek groups - mainstream Anglicans have never really been interested in meeting midweek, but the younger, keener denominations used to be in competition to see how many days a week they could hold religious meetings (you were a 'backslider' if you didn't attend) - now it seems as if the other denominations have become more like Anglicans, only more so - if it doesn't happen on a Sunday, don't bother.

Someone started a 'prayer at work' meeting in a lunchtime at my church (the idea being that if your work was in town you could pop by in your lunch hour). It lasted a term, I'm not sure of the main reasons for lack of interest, but suspect that many do not really have a proper lunch hour these days, many eat at their desks while still working (or playing computer games, if allowed?).

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

I'm afraid that I fall in with Mockingale on this. My former workplace (Canadian public service) was supportive of religious groups, allocating rooms for their use, but the anglophone Xn one was very evangelical with a political tinge (suggestions that we turn out to support a truly Christian candidate for a Conservative nomination as the other candidate was UCC) with extremely awkward silences when one was not toeing the line (the two group leaders evidently had certificates from the Program for Passive Aggressive Pastoral Practices and dealt with my idea that we read psalms together by suggesting that the others pray for me); there were two francophone ones, a non-denominational Haitian one and a very very integrist RC group (Fatima? where's Fatima?). The Haitian one was the only one I liked but my créole is, like, really bad and they were switching into English for my sake, and it got a bit ludicrous-- but I still have some friends from that.

The two Muslim groups were interesting. One of them was dominated by a particular member and, after a few weeks, had no other participants. The second was Ismaili, and other Muslims would not attend, partly because of the vile heresies they would encounter, and partly because one of the two leaders was a woman.

I must admit that I had better religious discussions in the sauna at the pool near my office. It turned out that one of the integrists and a part-time non-denominational youth minister and I did our laps about the same time, and we had some very good discussions while taking the steam after our swims-- I think that we managed to resolve the justification by faith and works issue. Absence of clothing=absence of theological barriers?

Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
So my topic for discussion is why wouldn’t a Christian working in such an office want to attend a weekly prayer and fellowship meeting at least on the odd occasion? Does it matter, who’s responsibility is it and what could the leaders do to improve it. This isn’t about proselytising; it’s just about getting believers together once a week to pray and discuss the scriptures.

I wouldn't turn up to a lunchtime meeting, for the reasons Tubbs and MtM said.

I think if these people are getting their fellowship, prayer and scriptures at church or home groups, I wouldn't really worry about it.

If they're not, well, you're not responsible for them. Just pray for them!

Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :

Hairy Biker, if there were a weekly Bible study and prayer group at my workplace, I likely wouldn't attend. I have trouble imagining how such a group would work. If one person in the group normally prays in tongues, and another normally addresses prayers to particular saints, and another considers it important to claim the answers of their prayers ... you see where I'm going? The fact that we're all Christians doesn't mean that we can pray together comfortably.

It should, perhaps. And the fact that you used to have a large group, and now have only a small one, suggests that, maybe, at your workplace, that's not the problem. Maybe, as others have suggested, it's a result of changes in schedule, or a shrinking headcount meaning fewer people doing more work and so not having time for something like your fellowship group.

You might consider asking the people who used to attend whether there are any changes you could make to entice them to come back.

Posted by Alogon (# 5513) on :

It being a Friday, maybe some don't mind eating meat, and others do. [Big Grin]

It's really irksome how the greens have started a campaign for meatless Mondays. Perish the thought of co-operating with an already existing tradition which happens to be religious, or admitting that the church had a good idea centuries before they did.

[ 08. June 2012, 14:11: Message edited by: Alogon ]

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :

Radical thought, but have you asked any of them?

Both whether they want to attend, and for those that don't, why not?

I suspect for most the answers will be as given by other posters here, but you never know. Personally I'd always be highly dubious because the big problem with all these things is that they're run by Christians (ugh!) as opposed to just, you know, Christians like the rest of us. IYSWIM.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
My former workplace (Canadian public service) was supportive of religious groups, allocating rooms for their use, but the anglophone Xn one was very evangelical with a political tinge (suggestions that we turn out to support a truly Christian candidate for a Conservative nomination as the other candidate was UCC)

Staff in many public bodies in the UK are supposed to eschew their personal politics while at work. For many of them, it is actually illegal for them publically to advocate supporting any political party. Many of them welcome this.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
[I] suspect that many do not really have a proper lunch hour these days, many eat at their desks while still working (or playing computer games, if allowed?).

Or having deep theological discussions on Christian (I thought...) bulletin boards, where they can also get more than enough "fellowship" to last them a week of Wednesdays.

Just sayin'...

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alogon:
It's really irksome how the greens have started a campaign for meatless Mondays. Perish the thought of co-operating with an already existing tradition which happens to be religious, or admitting that the church had a good idea centuries before they did.

I suspect it's got nothing to do with the church, and everything to do with the alliterative marketing possibilities of "Meatless Mondays".

Posted by PerkyEars (# 9577) on :

I think you might have more takers if the meeting was just about fellowship. Just getting together for lunch and a chat - no pressure to pray, study scripture or anything else. This is incredibly valuable in itself.

Perhaps out of this closer friendships and small groups which like to pray or study scripture in their own way might spin off organically.

This is how my home ed group is run (1 big meeting, no ideology, just come to chat, if you want something organised do it yourself and see if there are any takers). Out of this smaller groups of meetups between closer friends, families with the same approach, people wanting particular activities etc have sprung up, but there is no pressure for anyone coming to the main meet to take part in anything. I think it's a good model for getting a potentially diverse and fractious community together without forcing things that won't fit.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
My former workplace (Canadian public service) was supportive of religious groups, allocating rooms for their use, but the anglophone Xn one was very evangelical with a political tinge (suggestions that we turn out to support a truly Christian candidate for a Conservative nomination as the other candidate was UCC)
Staff in many public bodies in the UK are supposed to eschew their personal politics while at work. For many of them, it is actually illegal for them publically to advocate supporting any political party. Many of them welcome this.

Yes... it was highly improper, and this was addressed by two people in the group. The leaders had made assumptions that all Xns were of a particular political stripe and were quickly disabused of this notion. They were clearly traumatized by contradiction.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Asking some who used to attend has to be done in a neutral information gathering way, not a hint of accusative or obligation. NOT "what could we do differently that could get you to come back." That suggests if you make the right changes your target will have "no excuse" to not come back. To avoid that trap the answer will be "nothing" (as in "I have to do errands" or "I have to get work done" or "I keep meaning to attend but I'm too busy).

Be clear you aren't expecting any change in behavior. "You used to come, you've gone on to other things" acknowledges a healthy change of behavior. "Looking backwards, what worked well for you, what didn't?" If you can believably tie the question to wanting to write an article, or contribute ideas to an on-line discussion, you might set a context for hearing helpful responses about what makes a workplace group attractive generally, not what would attract "you" (that hints of obligation).

Or if you can track down former employees who used to come, that would be a neutral discussion, no way their answer could result in changes that would create an expectation they return. AND you'd more likely find out if the problem is one of the dominant people. I've been collecting reasons people I know leave a church they had attended for several years. A clash with one of the power people is one of the common explanations -- but only if they are sure I am not friends with the clashed-with person and won't blab to others.

In my workplace, it started as a prayer group, the big prayer request on my mind was should I quit my job, I sure don't want "Belle's thinking of quitting" gossip circulating! I wasn't surprised that it evolved into a prayer and Bible study, then a Bible study and prayer, then a Bible study. By then, not going was a habit.

At least as important, talk to God. Maybe a smaller group is spiritually more valuable than a larger one, at least for "a season." Is anyone specifically asking God to bring those God wants there and keep away those God does not want there?

Posted by PerkyEars (# 9577) on :

quote:
The leaders had made assumptions that all Xns were of a particular political stripe and were quickly disabused of this notion. They were clearly traumatized by contradiction.

It's not just conservatives who are guilty of this. I have experienced this from the left in CofE groups. It's very annoying.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PerkyEars:

quote:
The leaders had made assumptions that all Xns were of a particular political stripe and were quickly disabused of this notion. They were clearly traumatized by contradiction.
It's not just conservatives who are guilty of this. I have experienced this from the left in CofE groups. It's very annoying.

Quite so, and I have a story or two on that as well, but it was too tangential for this thread.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

It used to a be a tradition that Friday lunchtime was the day for a beer or two

It still is, sir. In fact, I'm just heading out the door right now.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
why wouldn’t a Christian working in such an office want to attend a weekly prayer and fellowship meeting at least on the odd occasion? Does it matter, who’s responsibility is it and what could the leaders do to improve it.

tclune and MTM seem to have covered it already. It would quickly become a weekly show with the same cast of characters and the same script. Perhaps if there weren't leaders at all it may improve.

Posted by the long ranger (# 17109) on :

Could be anything - maybe they hate you, maybe they're tired of your message, maybe they're away doing something else, maybe they've been told by their church not to associate with you, maybe they're all feeling guilty about something. Maybe they just can't compute the going-to-work-and-doing-church thing.

I don't understand why it matters. If it means something to you, go. If nobody else can be bothered, so what?

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
Could be anything - maybe they hate you,

I knew it

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
For some time we had a very large group and would often have standing room only in some of our meetings. Now we find those golden years are over and we have only a remnant, perhaps 6 people or sometimes fewer most weeks. Some of our number are getting frustrated that colleagues they know to be Christians no longer make the time to turn up

How long did you have the large group, a few weeks, a decade? How many years ago was that, back in the 80s, last year? Was the drop in numbers sudden -- one day half didn't show up -- or over the course of 6-8 months, or very gradual like two fewer attending each year over the course of a decade?

Do I see an attitude problem that some believe anyone who is Christian SHOULD be there? [Frown]

Might be just the wording is open to that inference. Nice that the thinking doesn't imitate too many churches by saying "something is wrong with them" but is willing to ask "what are we doing wrong?" Still, gotta be careful not to feel like others have any obligation to come to a Christian event just because they are Christians.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

As others have noted, the possible reasons are myriad. At the root level, though, the raw data would seem to suggest that at one point in time, it was meeting a need. Today it is not.

That's a common problem in churches. Pulling the plug on a program that was once an important and vital part of people's lives is always hard. But try not to take it personally. Celebrate that it was once important and meaningful, but, for whatever reason, is no longer. That may be for entirely positive reasons-- perhaps the midweek spiritual connection caused marginally active Christians to take their faith more seriously, leading to them getting more involved in their local churches, leaving them less time/interest in the workday meeting.

Perhaps your question right now shouldn't be how to pump them up to get them to come, but rather to find out what, if anything, would be beneficial NOW, in the same way what you are doing was beneficial THEN. Maybe another format-- several small prayer groups, rather than a large meeting. Maybe less frequency-- perhaps a special speaker once a quarter on some common interest. Maybe something with a service component. Or, like others suggested, maybe it's just the place or time-- Tuesday would be better than TGIF-Friday. Or nothing at all-- they have it covered elsewhere.

Talking to the people who used to come and don't anymore in a non-defensive, open way might be a good way at figuring out what would be helpful at this venture.

[ 08. June 2012, 17:21: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Moving on from cliffdweller's post - have the numbers declined over the last ten years or so? If that is the case then many Christians could find the needs they have outside church satisfied through the internet.

Sorry if the Ship may have played a part in the decline in your workplace group. [Frown]

Posted by OliviaG (# 9881) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
I work in a large office building where we have organised a Christian fellowship group who meet on Friday lunchtimes. ...

Just out of curiosity, how many other special-interest groups are active in the building? For example, is there a running or walking group? A pot-luck hot lunch group? Are there groups that focus on intimate, personal topics such as cancer, addictions or mental health? Does the building organize a team for charity or community events? Is there a United Way campaign or the equivalent?

The problem may simply be that the people in the building are a) not joiners, or b) reluctant to discuss personal matters in the workplace. In any case, Josephine's suggestion is probably the most challenging and the most likely to yield useful information. The stated purpose of the group, "pray and discuss the Scriptures", is both vast and vague. Unless you have some system to organize the topics, the discussion and the prayers, the group will degenerate to whomever likes to hear themselves talk. OliviaG

Posted by OliviaG (# 9881) on :

PS PerkyEars' group is doing something very much like Open Space Technology. OliviaG

Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :

I would suggest not meeting so often, maybe even only once a month. Some are hesitant to commit to something weekly. I would also try to make it as casual as possible, where they don't feel really accountable if they do happen to miss.

It's sad to think some avoid groups like this because they are most often led by conservatives or charismatic types. But it is also somewhat telling. You can't hate them for trying to practice what they preach.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Consider what your purpose in meeting is. I mean, are you about praying? Or about Bible study? Some people will turn up to one and not the other. Is it fellowship? They may have that need met already. Is it "flying your colors as a Christian"? Because I think I would positively avoid turning up if it became a way to demonstrate a difference between me and the non-Christians around me. Emphasizing the gap that way would destroy the outreach I do. You may have some "stealth" Christians at your office who feel the same way.

Maybe look and see if your purpose has shifted over the years. Or if it should have in response to changing realities.

And if possible it might be good to help attenders get off the backwards look at the glory years. We were once hosted by a failing church that did nothing but look back at those days. It wasn't until they started looking at the very different present that people got hopeful and excited again.

If all else fails, have a beer. [Biased]

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

I once worked in a very large secular organization, and one of the higher-ups had Bible study and prayer in his office. It was very low key, and handled quietly. I think the most people we had, when I was there, was maybe 8-10 people.

But I'm not sure I'd want to have immediate co-workers involved with me in that kind of meeting. Work relationships are difficult enough without adding religion and the kinds of things that are disclosed in prayer meetings. (My group had folks from all over the organization, so it wasn't much of an issue.)

I'm not sure why someone would think that all Christians in a workplace SHOULD go to such a group...

[Confused]

Posted by Carex (# 9643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
... it’s just about getting believers together once a week to pray and discuss the scriptures.

(My italics.)

Which, actually, can be very intensive and difficult work if there is any significant diversity of views among the participants.

I know of one group that met in a conference room at work for a while. At least half of them came from the same church, so I suspect that there wasn't a huge difference in perspective, even at that there was vigorous discussion about some issues. I don't think that the group would have felt comfortable to Christians outside a fairly limited range of perspectives.

We tend to group Christians together sometimes, when the differences among them are actually rather significant. I knew one car pool where 4 "conservative Christians" shared a 45 minute trip together each day to and from work. They originally thought they would get on well together, but with a Baptist, a Pentacostal, an RC and a Mormon, they spent most of their time singing hymns because they couldn't find anything else they could agree on. And then they all had to work together the rest of the day.

Unless you can truly welcome a wide range of views and interpretations, I wouldn't expect to see more than a small percentage of Christians interested in a regular Bible Study. And that diversity will be uncomfortable to many - you can't please everyone.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mockingale:
If I'm going to pray, I'm going to pray the office. Nondenominational ad-libbed prayer meetings don't do it for me.

Bingo!

quote:
Originally posted by PerkyEars:
I think you might have more takers if the meeting was just about fellowship. Just getting together for lunch and a chat - no pressure to pray, study scripture or anything else. This is incredibly valuable in itself.

I agree.

Posted by Frodgey (# 8890) on :

I was about to post the same thing.

Where I work now the group was very organised and structured - even had an ex-exec from HP to come and talk about being a Christian in the workplace. Nothing really happening anymore.

My last place we had, for a while, a small group of very diverse Christians who met together because we were all at points in our lives when we needed support - from a newly ordained NSM who was not sure how it fitted into to work to a new Christian full of joy who wanted to mindmap the Bible (!). The Monday meeting was the highpoint of our week - but it was only for a time.

The important thing is to find what God is doing in your workplace and join in - prayerfully.

I really must re-start praying for those working around me.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

In more recent years when I was working, the work got much more intense. Therefore, in lunchbreaks I needed to get out for a walk, clear my head and relax. Bible studies and prayer groups would have seemed way too much hard work and too similar to the cerebral activities I was trying to get a break from. Perhaps this is true of most people these days - more intense working situations and more expectations of working at 100% capacity all the time, means little energy left for anything else 'worthy' during the working day.

But instead of guessing, you could always ask them.... (assuming you are going to get an honest answer, that is)

My son's workplace has formed a choir for people to join in order to relax and get the 'feel good factor' - it also works well for teambuilding, as a by-product. Maybe you'd do better to form something similar instead?

[ 09. June 2012, 09:37: Message edited by: Chorister ]

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Grits:
It's sad to think some avoid groups like this because they are most often led by conservatives or charismatic types. But it is also somewhat telling. You can't hate them for trying to practice what they preach.

Who said anything about hating them? I wish them well, but I don't want to throw away a whole lunchtime just to subject myself to their "this is the One True Way To Do Things" attitude.

Posted by Michael Astley (# 5638) on :

I'm honest and open about my faith at work. I try to bear Christ in mind and heart in my dealings and interactions at work (with varying degrees of success). When I prayed the office regularly, I would often find time to do so at work. I try to arrange my shifts and holidays so I can get to services for the feast days and other occasions. The point is that I don't advocate separation of the Christian life from the rest of our lives nor do I believe that this is legitimately possible.

Yet, in spite of all of that, I can't imagine wanting to go to a prayer/bible study/Christian discussion group at work. I'm having a difficult time understanding the desire for such a group at all. Perhaps a number of your Christian colleagues similarly can't relate to it.

Posted by Cedd (# 8436) on :

When I worked in London I sometimes attended the lunchtime Christian Fellowship, but it suffered from many of the problems identified above. I ended up finding a local church that ran lunch time services and that was much better.

If you are determined to find out what the issue is then it may be more fruitful to ask / survey those concerned about what they would like such services to be / to do.

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

If there were such a group at my work I would certainly not attend. I value the opportunity to meet with all sorts of people at work, not just the 'holy' ones. I think there is a danger in creating elitist movements where people with different beliefs are not welcome.

Posted by tomsk (# 15370) on :

I expect it's the same everywhere and for all manner of lunchtime groups. People participate less than they used to. Working practices have changed. Hour-long lunch breaks at the same time have been replaced with flexi-time. Taking time out to attend a group is more of a sacrifice.

Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :

If there were such a meeting at my former office, I'd not attend for a variety of reasons:

1. I used to use my lunchtimes for household chores.

2. I didn't much care for many of my workmates -- why would I want to spend another hour with them?

3 The dominant church in town was one those theology was of less than zero interest to me, and I'd assume any Bible study they led would reflect that theology.

4. The absence of anyone with the credentials to lead a thoughtful Bible study.

5. Creation of a work dynamic with "ins" and "outs" -- i.e., the Bible study participants being seen as the "in" crowd.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

When I was in London for a couple of years (Mon - Fri), I discovered that there were many churches offering lunchtime Eucharists for city workers. They were lovely - they were often choral, but very peaceful, and no demands made - people could come and go with no questions asked (although some did serve coffee at the end if you had time or inclination to stay). Ditto free (donation) lunchtime concerts in many churches, if you needed some peaceful music to provide calm in the midst of a busy working day (and nobody minded if you had to leave part way through to get back to your desk).

I'd particularly like to highlight St. Botolph's Bishopsgate (Eucharist, often choral, on Wednesdays). That was my favourite.
The lunchtime events at all the City churches each month can be downloaded here.

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :

St Margaret Lothbury has a good one too if you prefer your services Evangelical and charismatic. They manage to get a couple of sets with a decent worship band, a sermon, and individual prayer and laying on of hands, inside a City lunch break.

Posted by angelfish (# 8884) on :

My experience of two such workplace Christian groups were both in law firms.

1. Dominated by Pentecostals who wanted to sing loud hymns, pray in tongues and made enough noise to raise questions from clients meeting in nearby conference rooms.

2. Dominated by one Conevo (also a partner in the firm, so very hard to disagree with and still enjoy one's career). What started as a supportive prayer group - praying for eachother in work related situations - he quickly dismissed a "navel gazing" and it was quickly transformed into a "Christianity Explored"type of group to which we were prevailed upon to invite victims for conversion.

Neither seemed an appropriate use of my time and the firm's resources to me.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

St Margaret, Lothbury was where I went on Thursdays, but not for a service. They have a wonderful, knowledgeable old boy who is the organist (favourite composer, Bach) who gives a very entertaining mini-lecture as well as an organ recital every Thursday lunchtime.

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

Thanks all for your valuable input. I think we’ve been extremely lucky with our group, as I don’t recognise any of the pitfalls you describe, but I do understand the myriad reasons for not wanting to attend such a group. Perhaps I have my rose-tints on on Fridays, or maybe some people take different things away. Personally I have been challenged and helped to grow by the great mix of traditions that have been involved in the group over the years I’ve known them. Nothing against the current smaller group, but I do miss the variety of a larger group. I can’t think of any other forum where Christians from so many different backgrounds sit down and discuss stuff (mostly bible stuff) for half an hour without any particular view being more dominant than any other. (Though I would concede that an evangelical bias does exist, mainly due to the self-selected profile of attendees.)

quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
When I was in London for a couple of years (Mon - Fri), I discovered that there were many churches offering lunchtime Eucharists for city workers. They were lovely - they were often choral, but very peaceful, and no demands made - people could come and go with no questions asked (although some did serve coffee at the end if you had time or inclination to stay). Ditto free (donation) lunchtime concerts in many churches, if you needed some peaceful music to provide calm in the midst of a busy working day (and nobody minded if you had to leave part way through to get back to your desk).

I'd particularly like to highlight St. Botolph's Bishopsgate (Eucharist, often choral, on Wednesdays). That was my favourite.
The lunchtime events at all the City churches each month can be downloaded here.

When I worked in the City I was a regular at St Botolph’s. It was lovely, and I do miss it. It was the first place that I came across incense in Christian worship. However it was really just more of Sunday’s worship and little chance for interaction after the service. I find I get very different things out of our work group.

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
St Margaret Lothbury has a good one too if you prefer your services Evangelical and charismatic. They manage to get a couple of sets with a decent worship band, a sermon, and individual prayer and laying on of hands, inside a City lunch break.

Last time I was there there did BCP at lunchtime, but that was a number of years back.

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :

When they do Holy Communion, it's BCP, but the lunchtime service on Tuesday is as I described above. On Thursdays it's repeated at St Mary Woolnoth, which fans of TS Eliot may be distressed to hear is now a plant.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Personally I have been challenged and helped to grow by the great mix of traditions that have been involved in the group over the years I’ve known them. Nothing against the current smaller group, but I do miss the variety of a larger group. I can’t think of any other forum where Christians from so many different backgrounds sit down and discuss stuff (mostly bible stuff) for half an hour without any particular view being more dominant than any other.

Yes, I was in an independent Bible study bunch (not workplace) with people from a dozen churches, it was so great to discuss a variety of ways to approach a passage or puzzle, I have no idea how the leader attracted that variety. We met in her home never at any church.

I do know what killed the variety and cut the group in half.

NOT saying this same cause affected your group!

Bible study leader changed churches, people from her new church started coming, they would refer to "the sermon last Sunday" as if everyone had heard the same sermon, use gathering time to make arrangements for church events, asking the group "can someone drive Mable to the Women's retreat Saturday?" when neither Mabel nor the women's retreat had anything to do with this prayer group.

Hey, it's natural, you see someone from church and make arrangements right them instead of a phone call later, but holding those conversations in the main meeting as if the whole group is interested meant those not from that church were left out.

A mixed group can absorb a bit of that, but when the group became one-third people from the one church, the people from that one church dominated so much of the conversation with chatter about the church they had in common, all the rest (except me) left at the end of that season's study, we had become outsiders in one church's gathering instead of part of a multi-church discussion. It dropped from 25 to 8, and has stayed in the 8-12 range.

Maybe any multi-viewpoint group needs a leader alert to keeping it multi-viewpoint, if it begins to develop a dominant voice (even if not majority), it's in danger? Same dynamic whether the dominant voice is a conevo (or liberal or pente or Baptist or RCC or any other), a specific church group, or sometimes a single loudmouth?

Posted by Anyuta (# 14692) on :

quote:
"why wouldn’t a Christian working in such an office want to attend a weekly prayer and fellowship meeting at least on the odd occasion?"

well, I don't know about others, but I would never join such a group because I'd just make a (perhaps unfounded) assumption about the group.. that they would not be engaging in earnest intelligent debate, nor would they be worshiping as I worship. I enjoy differences if they are discussed as they are here (even if hotly). I learn from that, and enjoy the back and forth. But to get together just to "read the bible"... just not my cup of tea. and the folks that tend to do that around here are of a stripe of Christian that is sufficiently different from me as to make "fellowship" uncomfortable, and tend not to be interested in discussion/debate.

Once, a long long time ago, when I was in my first job out of college, me and some colleagues were having an interested, spirited debate on religious issues in the break room. it was a lot of fun, and started spontaneously. One of the participants in the debate invited me and some others to attend a "bible study" lunch group who in her words "do this sort of thing all the time". well, that sounded fun, so a friend and I attended the very next meeting. The people were nice, but they clearly had something in mind other than "debating" . it was indeed a bible study.. with analysis that came from a book (if I recall correctly) and discussion that was certainly not "debate". I don't remember now, but it was something along the lines of discussing a particular interoperation, and looking for passages that matched it.

I actually started a bit of a debate that somehow related to the subject at hand.. I mentioned how the OT God sometimes sounded very unfair, and specifically brought up the story of Abraham and Sarai, where they went to Egypt and Abraham told Sarai to say she was his sister. Pharaoh fell in love with her, and who did God punish? Pharaoh! even though he had no idea she was married.

I had at the time just re-read the story in my first attempt to read the OT straight through (something I have yet to accomplish). These folks, despite being able to quote many passages, DID NOT KNOW THE STORY. they knew about the Birth of Isaac, but nothing else about his life. which I thought was odd for people who took the bible fairly literally. I mean, how can you take something as literally the word of God and then not know all the stories in it. I myself never took them literally, and even I was making some effort.

Anyhow, while they were very nice to me and my friend, it was very obvious that we did not fit in, and that the group was not at all a group to debate religious issues, but just your run of the mill bible study.. and honestly, I don't need to give up my lunch hour for such a group. I just have no interest. If I'm going to use my lunch to meet with other Christians, I'll ... well, I just don't. I don't just worship on Sundays, but I don't feel the need to gather with other Christians just to gather with them. I have a more interesting time discussing religion with my Jewish co worker/friend, for example, or my Lutheran friend, which I do often. it happens naturally, as part of our regular socializing at work, and no need to schedule it or make it officially a group thing. The Lutheran has a thing against Catholics (I'm not Catholic, but end up defending them and I hope enlightening her). the Jew unfortunately has a preconception of "Christians" that does not represent me at all... and I enjoy enlightening her as well (and they both enlighten me with regard to my own inaccurate assumptions about various things).

if someone says to me "there is a christian fellowship group meeting at lunch", sadly, my first thought is "ugh." Perhaps in part because the term "Christian' has to some extent been cooped by a rather particular subset of Christians around here, and it's not a subset with whom I have much in common at all. It's sad but true that "Christian" is a term I tend not to want to use to describe myself, simply because it brings to mind something I'm not. and that makes me sad. I'm Christian, but I'm not "Christian".

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