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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Personal "ritual" when there is no funeral?
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Ritual's seem to help us mark milestone changes and adjust to the new reality. But the ritual of a funeral seems increasingly to be skipped.
A friend of mine died -- family spread the word to her friends "don't come, there will be no funeral, only a 10 minute graveside ceremony." Another friend was recently informed by her cousins that her aunt had died ten days ago, the aunt was cremated, there was no funeral and no memorial service, one daughter will take the ashes to the cemetery where their father is buried next time she travels to that part of the country.
We have ways to mark lots of milestones at home, alone if needed; One can celebrate Christmas by putting up a decorations, baking cookies, listening to Christmas music on the radio, alone if for some reason one is isolated at Christmas.
What are some ways to mark the passing of someone special to you if there is no funeral, or if there is one but you are unable to attend?
Or is the idea meaningless, like some say holy communion alone is meaningless, are rituals inherently about getting together with other people?
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
I do not believe a ritual must involve other people being present physically - otherwise all those prayer meetings and services where "no-one" else comes would be devoid of meaning. Around us there is an ever present and unseen communion of saints. We cannot be where we are, without those who have gone before. So in that sense, rituals touch the eternal.
I do not find it a sad thing at all, when, left to our own devices, we seek out symbolic actions that have comforted us in the past. The fact that you want to hold on to this point of connection is a very beautiful thing. The ritual may be as simple as finding a photo of the one you know and placing it alongside a prayer or reading that speaks to you of this persons life. But doing this, and then committing your own thoughts and the person you love to God, is
A Very Deep Thing.
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
I think we had a thread on this a few months ago. And I probabkly said there that the idea of no funeral seems horrific to me. And also rather alien, everyone I have ever known of who died had a funeral, of some sort.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
When my Dad died I was out of the country and his funeral was held before I got back. We both knew he'd go before I got back and said good bye before I left, but I felt I said a final farewell when I visited a memorial placed by dear family friends in a forest which he loved. Until I'd visited this memorial and shared memories of him with these friends I couldn't settle with the fact that he'd died.
I think we need some sort of ritual. For a friend who died far away, I let off fireworks for her in place of attending her funeral.
[ 15. August 2012, 15:19: Message edited by: daisydaisy ]
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Aggie
Ship's cat
# 4385
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Posted
When a friend of mine's grandfather died, the family did not hold a formal funeral for him, as they decided that it would be hypocritical as he was an atheist, and he had stated on his death-bed that he did not want "any religion" after his death. My friend's grandmother is a devout Christian, and did not like the idea of a humanist funeral.
Instead, they held a sort of wake or gathering where the whole family attended and reminisced about him and his life, and raised a glass to his memory.
His body was cremated without any of the family being present at the crematorium.
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“I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.”
(Joseph Mary Plunkett 1887-1917)
Posts: 581 | From: A crazy, crazy world | Registered: Apr 2003
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
My wife had a (girl) friend since they were in school together. The lady had had bad experiences with churches, beginning with being ostracised because her father was a bit of a drinker. The failed marriage didn't help amongst the rural Baptists, either, despite her being able to bring up two good children on her own. The last straw was the refusal by the Anglican priest of that moment to marry her to a decent man, with whom she had a good relationship until she died of cancer. (The previous priest, who had helped get her through AA, had been moved on by then, and we got a "women-in-hats" lump of unctuosity for a while, who drove several families out of the local church)
So "no preachers at the funeral". But my wife was able to work out a service at the funeral home, involving doing some (non-denominational) prayers and a review of the good that the lady had done during her various misfortunes, presented by friends of hers.
This community is still connected enough that some form of closing ceremony is needed, but they were OK with the absence of "church" in this case. Indeed, some of them preferred that, given the damage done to them by assorted preachers over the years.
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Sorry to hear of your loss,Belle Ringer.
If someone close to you has died, and you had no opportunity to mark the event, I can understand your need to grieve in a way that helps you to do so intentionally.
Here is a small ritual that some women have found helpful, when wishing to step back in time a little to grieve a miscarriage from years earlier, when such occasions were usually not marked with ritual of any sort.
Sit down and write a letter to the person whom you have lost; if you find it helpful, write a prayer as well. Then, cut the letter up, place it in a balloon, fill the ballon with air, and release it to the wind from the top of a hill.
Say a silent prayer and a few words of farewell.
Then, take a long walk alone, and think of memories you can cherish.
All the best to you, I hope you can find a measure of peace.
[ 15. August 2012, 18:27: Message edited by: Loquacious beachcomber ]
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
If you have a sympathetic pastor, mention the problem to him and see if he will do a wee service for/with you. We do this all the time for people whose family die in Vietnam, or who have miscarriages or stillbirths. It can be as simple as a brief prayer together or as elaborate as a full memorial service. (There's no rule that says memorial services are one to a person, or that they must be done by family or involve family or even have unsympathetic family told about them. And they can be done even years after the death)
We see it as meeting the needs of the mourner(s).
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
The Mourner's Bill of Rights was floating around another corner of the Internet that I inhabit recently. Numbers six and seven are appropriate to the OP, I believe.
If for some reason I can't make it physically to a funeral or memorial service, or if one doesn't occur, I frequently make use of the Office of the Dead.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
My beloved aunt left instructions that she did not want a funeral. She wanted her body cremated and the ashes scattered in a place she had loved. I assume her children and grandchildren held their own private ritual.
Most of the rest of the family came together a few weeks later to talk about her. Unfortunately I couldn't make it. The next time my younger daughter and her husband came to visit me, we sat and talked about her over a bottle of wine. I did most of the talking because I had known her much longer and spent much more time with her. My daughter had some memories, and even my son-in-law had a few.
The whole thing brought closure to me, although of course I still miss her.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
My grandma made it perfectly clear that she didn't want any kind of service at all. She was unchurched, and not at all interested in religion in any form.
Her body was cremated after she died. My mother and her older sister had a memorial of sorts when they picked up her urn of ashes. On the way to the columbarium, they shared memories of her and laughed and cried together. It was just the two of them, and gave them the closure that they needed at that time. And all the grandchildren were comforted by that knowledge.
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Rural Rev
Apprentice
# 17274
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Posted
I'm new to this so bear with me!
I've decided to donate my body to medical research so no funeral but I suppose there could be some sort of memorial service, if people want to organise something. I'll hopefully be partying so won't be worrying to much.
Any thoughts on not having a funeral for a Christian?
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Take short views, hope for the best, and trust in God.
Posts: 15 | From: "Out in the sticks" | Registered: Aug 2012
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Polly Plummer
Shipmate
# 13354
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Posted
A friend who died a few years ago left his body to medical research. There was a service at his church, a bit like a funeral service , but it felt really strange not to have a coffin to focus on. I've been waiting to hear when the medical students finish with him, but no news so far. All rather unsatisfactory, no proper farewell.
Posts: 577 | Registered: Jan 2008
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
I went once to a humanist funeral. It was one of the most depressing occasions I have ever experienced. I came to the conclusion that it would have been better for the corpse to have had his fingers crossed and gone for the full CoE hog. As someone who had worked at Bletchly Park in WW2 and who had a keen sense of language and literature, it would have been more appropriate.
The person taking the 'ceremony' was referred to as the 'celebrant'. Although strictly non-religious, the occasion contained that 'Death is Nothing at All' bit of Henry Scott-Holland.
It merely convinced me that when it comes to my time, I would like a requiem mass with a chance for those who were kind enough to be present to pray that even after death, this miserable sinner might have some sort of forgiveness.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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daisydaisy
Shipmate
# 12167
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Posted
My mother chose a humanist funeral, and made all the arrangements for the contents of the crematorium ceremony herself, including the speech (she was a self-confessed control freak!). The humanist who ran the ceremony was very sensitive to people there so that the whole event reflected who she was, and everyone there was probably more comfortable with it not being a church "do", even the few Christians there.
Posts: 3184 | From: southern uk | Registered: Dec 2006
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Polly Plummer:
A friend who died a few years ago left his body to medical research. There was a service at his church, a bit like a funeral service , but it felt really strange not to have a coffin to focus on. I've been waiting to hear when the medical students finish with him, but no news so far. All rather unsatisfactory, no proper farewell.
I used to know a hospital chaplain who would do the "funerals" of those who had left their bodies to medical science. Basically, once the medical profession had finished with the bodies (which were treated with the greatest respect) they would be released for cremation, sometimes several years after death.
When this chaplain did the service, it was usually just him and the local Co-Op funeral director. He would say a prayer, followed by commendation and committal before pressing the button. All of this would be done within a few minutes. Often, there would be several all done on the same morning.
One day he was doing one of these and they were 10 minutes early, but he decided to start anyway. As he began the second one in the "queue" some relatives of the first one arrived to pay their last respects, hiving been informed of the date and time. He had to quickly nip around the back to get the first one back so that he could be "done" all over again
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
I had a friend die out of my area and I was unable to attend her service. On the day of the service I went to a town near my home that had special memories of us once sharing a day there.
I found a church which was open. ( If all was locked I would have asked permission to enter a church) I read some prayers and afterwards went to lunch at a place we had visited. I found it gave me both comfort and closure.
The town has since always reminded me of her and I like the connection when ever I happen to be in the area.
Posts: 2641 | From: Third planet from the sun. USA | Registered: Nov 2004
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Welcome, Rural Rev! I hope you enjoy your voyage with us. There's a thread in All Saints where you are sure to get warm greetings if you care to go there to say 'hello'.
jedijudy
One of the Welcoming Heaven Hosts
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
Our friend C*** was a dedicated atheist with a wide circle of friends in many fields of the arts. His funeral filled Old St Paul's, an historic building used for concerts etc as well as religious weddings, funerals etc. A string quartet played, poems were read, tributes spoken, songs sung. At the end, his brother, a clergyman, could not refrain from delicately suggesting that if we were to say the Lord's Prayer nobody need feel offended. I don't believe anyone did mind. And I'm sure C** wouldn't have.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
When my dear brother died he was 10 hours away and where he lived was about to be socked in by a winter storm system. His daughters made the last flight in for several days.
They sent me the preprinted funeral service and I lit a candle at the time of the funeral and sat in darkness, crying.
(In this case there was a funeral. But I couldn't be there. So it was like no funeral.)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Graven Image:
I had a friend die out of my area and I was unable to attend her service. On the day of the service I went to a town near my home that had special memories of us once sharing a day there.
I found a church which was open. ( If all was locked I would have asked permission to enter a church) I read some prayers and afterwards went to lunch at a place we had visited. I found it gave me both comfort and closure.
My uncle did that when my mother (his sister) died last year. He is quite elderly and was unable to make the long journey from Exeter to London, so his local Vicar opened the church specially for him at the time of the funeral.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Polly Plummer:
[qb] A friend who died a few years ago left his body to medical research. There was a service at his church, a bit like a funeral service
We do something similar here. The university chaplain does an annual service for the school of medicine and relatives. It has grown in 'popularity' over the years.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
I went once to a humanist funeral. It was one of the most depressing occasions I have ever experienced.
They needn't be. I have experienced some humanist funerals that were far better than those done by a 'duty vicar'.
I sometimes think I'd like to 'go out' with a requiem mass followed by a humanist committal.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
It just seemed the other end of a registry office wedding. I went to my first one of those recently and thought it just awful - the fake pseudo-church wedding vows and all over in a few minutes. Even the groom was a little apologetic afterwards saying 'yep I know...but needs must...er..er'. If I'm invited to another one I think it would be best to skip the ceremony and just go to the drinks.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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St. Sebastian
Staggering ever onward
# 312
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Posted
An old friend of my mother's (and mine)died last summer and she had said she wanted no funeral. She was cremated so mom and I, her daughters and some grandchildren gathered at the house she had lived in for 60 years or so and dearly loved. We all spoke about what she meant to us, a special memory or whatever we wanted/needed to say and then buried the ashes in the back yard. It was the best "funeral" I've ever been to. My mother has said many times since that she wants that kind of thing done when she passes.
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St. Seb
In Spite of Everything: Yes.
Posts: 962 | From: Burlington, North Carolina | Registered: May 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rural Rev:
I'm new to this so bear with me!
I've decided to donate my body to medical research so no funeral but I suppose there could be some sort of memorial service, if people want to organise something. I'll hopefully be partying so won't be worrying to much.
Any thoughts on not having a funeral for a Christian?
Are you a rev who doesn't like funerals?? That should be interesting!
Maybe you could hold one piece of your body back, something the medics won't use, and have a funeral/cremation around that. It might be a bit less drastic than not allowing your friends or family anything physical to focus on.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Rural Rev
Apprentice
# 17274
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Posted
quote:
Are you a rev who doesn't like funerals?? That should be interesting! - SvitlanaV2
quote:
Very much to the contrary - taking funerals is a huge privilege and probably one of the most important facets of my ministry.
As far as my own decision - it is more to do with a desire for my body to have some use (I previously worked in the medical field). I would hope that friends and family would join in the service laid on by the medical school - as other contributors have mentioned.
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Take short views, hope for the best, and trust in God.
Posts: 15 | From: "Out in the sticks" | Registered: Aug 2012
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Rural Rev
Well, we all have to do what's best for us, that's what they say. Still, if you're an Anglican you'll be doing lots of funerals, and it amuses me to think that at the back of your mind will always be the thought: 'What a waste of good flesh! The medics could be using this!'
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rural Rev:
I'm new to this so bear with me!
I've decided to donate my body to medical research so no funeral but I suppose there could be some sort of memorial service, if people want to organise something. I'll hopefully be partying so won't be worrying to much.
Any thoughts on not having a funeral for a Christian?
I understand there can be committals when medical research has finished with the body - I was asked to do one not long ago, but I wasn't free at the requested time. I think there would need to be some kind of funeral (with or without body present) if only to give an opportunity for people to mourn and express their grief.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rural Rev:
I'm new to this so bear with me!
I've decided to donate my body to medical research so no funeral but I suppose there could be some sort of memorial service, if people want to organise something. I'll hopefully be partying so won't be worrying to much.
Any thoughts on not having a funeral for a Christian?
Welcome from me as well, I was pretty rural in my last ministry, but now I'm retired I'm so rural I'm unfindable! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
There have always been funerals where the body is absent: lost at sea, burnt in an air crash, eaten by sharks at a Synod meeting....
The older 'catholic' tradition involved creating a 'catafalque' (instructions on request) and treating it as if it was the coffin. I don't think that would be understood in these liturgically benighted times, but in more recent times I've done several where a large photo of the deceased has been on a table at the chancel step, maybe flanked by candles. It seemed to be quite effective.
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
...but in more recent times I've done several where a large photo of the deceased has been on a table at the chancel step, maybe flanked by candles. It seemed to be quite effective.
We do that very often. Here in the land of retirees from far away, the body is frequently sent north to wherever home was. The funeral is there, but the friends here want to have a service also. It's a memorial service, and is very comforting.
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
My mother's cousin Jocelyn, and her husband Jack both left their bodies for the training of medical students.
For both of them a memorial service was held in the church they attended. I can't remember much of Jack's, but I do remember Jocelyn's, which was a chance for her friends and relations to gather and remember all she had meant to us.
I saw a programme on TV about bodies given to the Otago Medical School here. They are usually cremated and scattered in the Botanic Gardens with a prayer.
On a lighter note - Jocelyn had to contact her lawyer (an old friend) on his cell phone to make urgent arrangements regarding Jack's donation. He was Christmas shopping and had to leave the shop for better reception, "Sorry, about that", he said, "I was in the Body Shop".
He was embarassed and very apologetic when he realised the circumstances, but Jocelyn said the co-incidence gave her a much needed dash of humour.
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
The nursing home where my father died had a small ceremony every so often (monthly I think) for friends and family of residents who had died within that time span. Although we did have a funeral for my father, the additional memorial was rather comforting.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
For various complicated reasons I was unable to attend the funeral of my grandmother who died when I was thirteen. A couple of weeks ago, twenty three years to the day after she died a mass was said for her at church. I found it gave me much more of that awful word closure than I even realised I needed.
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
There have always been funerals where the body is absent: lost at sea, burnt in an air crash, eaten by sharks at a Synod meeting....
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Thanks for that--as I contemplate my church's upcoming Synodical convention . . .
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I had three long-time friends die in the space of three months last summer, I put their names on the list to be read at All Saints -- not knowing the church would preface the reading of names by saying these are people who "died in the faith." My 3 were read first and I was trying so hard not to laugh out loud, all three were firm atheists! Oh well, my faith is big enough to include them. But it seems -- awkward?, disrespectful to them? -- to do some major religious program like a home version of a Christian funeral.
One of them -- actually he died a year earlier, I found out last summer -- I wrote a long letter to the widow describing how knowing him had improved my life, and inviting her to visit (with or without a friend) if she ever heads my way. I knew I was a year late but one doesn't forget a dead spouse! She wrote back that the letter arrived just before his birthday, a real special time when of course she was thinking about him even more than usual.
She said she was moving soon and promised to tell me her address when she moves, which probably she won't but it's OK, he and I shared an intense hobby, she and I were mere casual acquaintances. But I think writing the letter -- that focused expression of appreciation for having known him, was important to me too.
One of my friends I'm still mad at for dying, we were planning to do so much together over the coming years. I think writing a long letter to the one family member I ever met (I stayed in her house a few days) might be good for both of us.
A neighbor is feeling disoriented about her own cousins not telling her until almost two weeks after the death and not bothering with a funeral for their own mother! I'd like to suggest something, maybe Office for the Dead would be a good suggestion to propose, even suggest she invite a good friend or two to join her in it.
I get the feeling "no funeral" is becoming ever more common. Part of the informality of our culture? Or what?
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Judging by my limited experience, I'm guessing a very natural fear of death and an ever greater percentage of people without the religious, community, family or personal experience resources to cope with that fear. Easier not to have a funeral at all when it stirs up such fear and discomfort.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Nanny Ogg
Ship's cushion
# 1176
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Posted
Thinking of funerals did anyone see Dead Good Job on BBC 2 yesterday?
I found it interesting with regard to rituals and the way people think about funerals, especially Islamic burials.
I liked the biker's funeral where there was ritual without religion which in a way was their religion.
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Buy me a beer and I'm you friend forever
Posts: 4137 | From: Away with the fairies | Registered: Aug 2001
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