Originally posted by Louise:
Leo thinks he can lecture Ruth on how to read the Bible? Wow, it's the Dunning Kruger effect in action again!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:Thank you, Louise. I will remember that!
Originally posted by Louise:
Leo thinks he can lecture Ruth on how to read the Bible? Wow, it's the Dunning Kruger effect in action again!
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
quote:Which one are you?
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
Oh dear. It's the Pot & Kettle Show again.
quote:I think Sir P. is the stove.
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:Which one are you?
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
Oh dear. It's the Pot & Kettle Show again.
quote:Oh I dunno.
Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Pass the chile-dusted popcorn and Mousethief coolers. It's been a long day, and we've got our favorite chew toy back in Hell.
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
Oh dear. It's the Pot & Kettle Show again.
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Which one are you?
quote:Or the stuffed turkey.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I think Sir P. is the stove.
quote:But you've been stuffed for years, old sausage.
Originally posted by mdijon:
...Or the stuffed turkey.
quote:You forget that one of the other purposes of hell is to be able to say things to other shipmates that commandments prohibit you from saying on the other boards. Not worth it if it's a single post you're responding to, but if the shipmate is an arsehole multiple times in a thread or across multiple threads quite acceptable. Of course, you also open yourself up to other shipmates making you the target instead of your intended target.
Originally posted by Evensong:
Oh I dunno.
The ship seems to be turning in on itself. Johnny S, Shamwari, Giant Cheesburger, Moo, EE are on hell calls - none of whom are particularly hellworthy denizens IMO.
This is the trouble with little fresh meat around (except (S)pike Couchant perhaps?). The natives get restless.
quote:How absolutely twee of you.
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:Which one are you?
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
Oh dear. It's the Pot & Kettle Show again.
quote:Bingo. Got it in one. Hell calls mean nothing more than that - they're not some kind of special opprobrium reserved for only the most leotarded fuckwits on the Ship.
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
You forget that one of the other purposes of hell is to be able to say things to other shipmates that commandments prohibit you from saying on the other boards.
quote:I scroll past his posts – and only really notice them when a piece of particularly hideous coding draws my attention. But, as any fule know, coding is beneath Leo.
Originally posted by RuthW:
Thanks, mdijon.
It's not that I think my opinion on Romans 13 is the last word on the matter, but that leo so often writes as if he has something to teach everyone and we should all draw up to be instructed and inspired.
I know, I know, I too should just scroll past his posts. And mostly I do. "Mostly" is of course not good enough, and outside of this thread I have every intention of mending my ways.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Leo knows everything about anything and we should be grateful the opportunity to bask in his wisdom. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf:
Leo was right about the original issue. And I'm not really sure that he was being any more arrogant than the subsequent replies.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
quote:No I didn't forget.
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
You forget that one of the other purposes of hell is to be able to say things to other shipmates that commandments prohibit you from saying on the other boards.
quote:I didn't question any of that and I don't think Ruth did, either. Which is why (to me, at any rate) leo's posts came across as arrogant as they suggested that Ruth's reading was "wrong" because she didn't share the same opinion of the passage as him and that if she'd only read them the right way, she'd change her mind.
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf:
Look, that Romans 12-3 constitutes a literary unit, and that once this is taken on board the import of Romans 13:1 looks very different is hardly a Leonine invention. Look, say, at Borg and Crossan's recent book on Paul for an accessible case to this end by NT scholars. I happen to agree with Leo (and Borg and Crossan). I also don't think he came across as much worse than anyone else on that thread. That's all.
quote:Nah, they just occasionally need to say things to people who annoy them. They'd need to say those things even if there were another circus of a thread going on. This is the place to do that. There are times when there are multiple hell calls and times when there are none. It's also not surprising there are people on the ship who just plain don't like each other and some who seem to be universally annoying. Doesn't mean the ship is turning on itself, just means we're a normal group of people.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:No I didn't forget.
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
You forget that one of the other purposes of hell is to be able to say things to other shipmates that commandments prohibit you from saying on the other boards.
People just get more annoyed with people they are familiar with when they have no new drama to distract them or take out their frustrations on.
quote:True
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
Nah, they just occasionally need to say things to people who annoy them.
quote:Need to yes. Would they tho? No. Less likely to.
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
They'd need to say those things even if there were another circus of a thread going on.
quote:Really? I think they would, though I admit the circus threads would get far more posts/participation. When this is the only place you get to say what you want to people who piss you off or really annoy you, those posts will be made, whether there is a great amount of participation or not. With as many hell calls as there are now they've all been pretty much active threads, not just one or two really active ones. Leo's threads are always "popular" due to his posting style, but even the thread for the popular and respected Moo got pages of action, albeit a few people contributed most of the posts.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Need to yes. Would they tho? No. Less likely to.
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
They'd need to say those things evehttp://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin2/index.cgin if there were another circus of a thread going on.
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
...Or the stuffed turkey.
quote:That's your come back? What a cheeky chipolata, a formidable feisty Frankfurter you are with your sharp salami-slicing and eviscerating voivodes of a response.
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore (ret'd):
But you've been stuffed for years, old sausage.
quote:Don't forget all the books he has read. Three at a time, no doubt.
Originally posted by Tubbs:
OTH, how could that be?!
Tubbs
quote:While simultaneously writing the reviews for those books.
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:Don't forget all the books he has read. Three at a time, no doubt.
Originally posted by Tubbs:
OTH, how could that be?!
Tubbs
quote:And writes almost as well as he reads. In fact, almost identically as well as he reads.
Originally posted by Evensong:
He is well read.
quote:Snorts
Originally posted by mdijon:
Chorister, you can't possibly be sarcastic like that on a hell thread. Think of your reputation.
quote:And writes almost as well as he reads. In fact, almost identically as well as he reads.
Originally posted by Evensong:
He is well read.
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif){kind=icon}
quote:I guess that would explain why he never seems to have time to write a book review that actually tells us anything about the book...
Originally posted by Niteowl2:
quote:While simultaneously writing the reviews for those books.
Originally posted by Chorister:
Don't forget all the books he has read. Three at a time, no doubt.
quote:Doesn't count when the rank pulling is part of an attempt to buy someone beer or similar.
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
It's okay Tubbs, we love you anyway...
...even if you do pull rank in restaurants!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
quote:As I'm sitting here in southern California and will never meet leo or you in real life, my opinion of his character rests solely on how he comports himself on these boards. So I think he's an assclown.
Originally posted by Angloid:
I've met leo IRL and he certainly isn't a bit like people on this thread are portraying him.
quote:Yes, I replied in kind. Because even if I hadn't learned in childhood to read things in context, I wouldn't take instruction from leo, whose demonstration of reading comprehension on these boards isn't very much higher than a tree frog's.
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf:
Leo was right about the original issue. And I'm not really sure that he was being any more arrogant than the subsequent replies.
quote:In defence of Leo I would never scroll past his posts. Whether one agress with him or not. I think he might be just a little bit bright.
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:I scroll past his posts – and only really notice them when a piece of particularly hideous coding draws my attention. But, as any fule know, coding is beneath Leo.
Originally posted by RuthW:
Thanks, mdijon.
It's not that I think my opinion on Romans 13 is the last word on the matter, but that leo so often writes as if he has something to teach everyone and we should all draw up to be instructed and inspired.
I know, I know, I too should just scroll past his posts. And mostly I do. "Mostly" is of course not good enough, and outside of this thread I have every intention of mending my ways.
He seems incapable of understanding that he’s not teaching O and A Level students now and that some of the people he’s talking to know far more about the subject under discussion than he does.
OTH, how could that be?!
Tubbs
quote:Have you read any of the books he's purported to read? I have read enough to know I don't recognise the book I've read from what he's saying.
Originally posted by Evensong:
He is well read.
Just acts like a grumpy old man sometimes in his impatience with others.
quote:I'd comment on that in its whole context, too.
Originally posted by PD:
Leaves me happily wondering what Leo would do with Romans 1, 18-32. That could be another beer and popcorn moment.
PD
quote:As is posting in Hell, which is why we won't see him here any time soon.
Originally posted by Tubbs:
But, as any fule know, coding is beneath Leo.
quote:Every single thing you ever post on the SoF reads like a fucking job application for Host. I'm not sure why I should give a toss, but it annoys me in the same way Chip Watkins did at school by raising his hand whenever a Tutor wanted a volunteer for something. He never was made prefect.
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
It's possible that somewhere there is a thread where leo is contributing posts with more than three sentences. It hasn't come up on my screen lately, but I don't read every single thread the way the hosts do.
What I've noticed lately is that he will post one or two sentences on a thread with a very involved subject and seem to expect that to end discussion--everyone should just go "OH! Thanks, leo, we didn't know that--now we understand everything perfectly". Threads don't work that way--if you're going to contribute to a serious thread (beyond asking for clarification) you need to spend some time with your post.
I'm not against one-liners (I've indulged in them myself a few times, and I usually enjoy mousethief's witty ripostes). They should be germane to something in the thread, however, and they really ought to be amusing if they are going to avoid the ire of the hosts. I'm not certain leo has ever tried to be amusing--I'm quite certain he's not succeeding now.
You can add me to the list of those who don't really care if he's a lovely person in the flesh, because it is most unlikely I will ever have the opportunity to interact with him in that manner. When you are on an internet bulletin board, your behaviour on the internet is all that matters.
quote:We have miscommunicated but not worth sorting out - it being a frivolous tangent and all.
Originally posted by mdijon:
In fact it was Blanche.
quote:Ah yes. Right you are <slaps forehead>. I plead allowances for second language (culturally speaking).
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
We have miscommunicated but not worth sorting out - it being a frivolous tangent and all.
quote:Wow. And oh well. I would have identified the basic substrates for a happier encounter, but perhaps the catalysts were wrong. Humans are complicated.
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(I did however meet Mr. Williams when I was in school in New Orleans. He was drunk and I was 20. It was not a happy encounter.)
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
They should be germane to something in the thread, however, and they really ought to be amusing if they are going to avoid the ire of the hosts.
quote:You might be confusing saying something constructive with crawling to become a host. On the other hand I suspect;
Originally posted by Yorick:
Every single thing you ever post on the SoF reads like a fucking job application for Host. I'm not sure why I should give a toss, but it annoys me...
quote:Is the bit that really pushed your button.
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
When you are on an internet bulletin board, your behaviour on the internet is all that matters.
quote:Yorick is always such an excellent example of "When I point the finger at you I've got three pointing back at me."
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
The difference between us, Yorick, is that I don't want to be a host.
Another difference is that I can state that and most Shipmates will believe me.
quote:Been a while since we had a H&A Day.
Originally posted by Yorick:
Crikey, do you children seriously imagine that a) I want/have the time to be a host here, or b) I kid myself I'd ever be permitted to be one? Hahaha. That's cheered me up.
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
quote:That would be too weird. Even for H&A day. Besides, I doubt anyone could afford the bribe.
Originally posted by passer:
quote:Been a while since we had a H&A Day.
Originally posted by Yorick:
Crikey, do you children seriously imagine that a) I want/have the time to be a host here, or b) I kid myself I'd ever be permitted to be one? Hahaha. That's cheered me up.
quote:I see what you did there.
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Hell calls mean nothing more than that - they're not some kind of special opprobrium reserved for only the most leotarded fuckwits on the Ship.
quote:I don't see how their being a literary unit means you can't disagree with one of the chapters and not the other. The lost coin / lost sheep / prodigal son cycle constitutes a literary unit, but that doesn't mean someone couldn't think one of the parables was shite and the other two just dandy.
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf:
Look, that Romans 12-3 constitutes a literary unit, and that once this is taken on board the import of Romans 13:1 looks very different is hardly a Leonine invention.
quote:Bazinga!
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:And writes almost as well as he reads. In fact, almost identically as well as he reads.
Originally posted by Evensong:
He is well read.
quote:Ummm - because RuthW said on the Purgatory thread that the 1 Cor. 13 passage was the greatest bullshit in all of the Bible, prompting leo's arrogant response, prompting this thread, which I see as embracing irony.
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
SF, how does RuthW's distaste for Romans 13 translate to thinking I Corinthians 13 is shit?
quote:Well Romans 13 is questionable and has been disobyed by countless Christians both right and left, often for good reasons. 1 Corinthians 13 is lovely poetry, somewhat cliched now, and not particularly Christian anyway - Christians do not have the monopoly on the primacy of love.
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
quote:Ummm - because RuthW said on the Purgatory thread that the 1 Cor. 13 passage was the greatest bullshit in all of the Bible, prompting leo's arrogant response, prompting this thread, which I see as embracing irony.
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
SF, how does RuthW's distaste for Romans 13 translate to thinking I Corinthians 13 is shit?
You need to learn how to read the threads better, OB, and find the connecting pieces, if I may kind of plagarize leo while still giving him credit. While doing so in a patient, kind and loving manner which is not arrogant or boastful or rude.
quote:Simple: you don't have a life.
Originally posted by mdijon:
...
I don't know why I bother.
quote:I don't believe it says they do?
Originally posted by sebby:
1 Corinthians 13 is lovely poetry, somewhat cliched now, and not particularly Christian anyway - Christians do not have the monopoly on the primacy of love.
quote:Or that she was just being stubbornly resistant to changing her mind--the implication being that this was an emotional reaction that interfered with her reasoning. But then she is female, so what can you expect....
Originally posted by Stejjie:
quote:I didn't question any of that and I don't think Ruth did, either. Which is why (to me, at any rate) leo's posts came across as arrogant as they suggested that Ruth's reading was "wrong" because she didn't share the same opinion of the passage as him and that if she'd only read them the right way, she'd change her mind.
Originally posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf:
Look, that Romans 12-3 constitutes a literary unit, and that once this is taken on board the import of Romans 13:1 looks very different is hardly a Leonine invention. Look, say, at Borg and Crossan's recent book on Paul for an accessible case to this end by NT scholars. I happen to agree with Leo (and Borg and Crossan). I also don't think he came across as much worse than anyone else on that thread. That's all.
The implication seemed to be that if she didn't agree with leo, she was reading it wrong - it couldn't possibly be that her opinion of the passage was different...
quote:It's cliched because it's one of those things that people say but don't do, even though we know life would be much more bearable if we did do it. Or at least gave it a jolly good try a little more often. I understand it was one of Gandhi's favourite readings; I sometimes use his version of it in wedding addresses.
Originally posted by sebby:
1 Corinthians 13 is lovely poetry, somewhat cliched now, and not particularly Christian anyway - Christians do not have the monopoly on the primacy of love.
quote:Some who believe in the infallibility of Paul often do. Unfortuntately.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:I don't believe it says they do?
Originally posted by sebby:
1 Corinthians 13 is lovely poetry, somewhat cliched now, and not particularly Christian anyway - Christians do not have the monopoly on the primacy of love.
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine on another thread:
What change are you actually expecting? Or is it merely the satisfaction of pointing out his shortcomings? (which is something I can certainly relate to.)
quote:Leotard never hangs out in the Circus. He is much too good and serious for all that inanity, geddit?
Originally posted by mdijon:
(Although Chorister hasn't popped in to say he's OK really apart from his punctuation and coding, and that's got to be a bad sign.)
quote:I doubt very much that leo did think; it's not his habit. But yes, the notion that existing authorities have been instituted by God is the bullshit to which I was referring.
Originally posted by venbede:
I’ve looked at the original thread and I can’t see what RuthW specifically thinks is the trouble with Romans 13. Presumably the awful bit about “those authorities that exist have been instituted by God”. I don’t know if that’s what leo thought because neither Ruth nor leo were specific as far as I could see.
quote:No kidding.
Romans 12 makes no difference to its potential awfulness
quote:I had a good reason. I still do.
(although there’s no need to be stroppy and oppositional just for the sake of it).
quote:Sometimes, pomposity can be a virtue. This Circus host at least is quite glad it keeps him someone else's problem.
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:Leotard never hangs out in the Circus. He is much too good and serious for all that inanity, geddit?
Originally posted by mdijon:
(Although Chorister hasn't popped in to say he's OK really apart from his punctuation and coding, and that's got to be a bad sign.)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
quote:I usually follow 3 thread in the Circus and have occasionally posted, especially when there is a poll.
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:Leotard never hangs out in the Circus. He is much too good and serious for all that inanity, geddit?
Originally posted by mdijon:
(Although Chorister hasn't popped in to say he's OK really apart from his punctuation and coding, and that's got to be a bad sign.)
quote:31 out of your last 50 posts have been in Hell. I am wondering what that signifies.
Originally posted by mdijon:
I started the thread because I was genuinely annoyed and couldn't help myself. In retrospect it is probably not helping anyone, and I shouldn't have. In fact even at the time I thought that was probably the case, but on this occasion my cognitive centres were unable to inhibit more instinctive neurological activity.
quote:I usually have three books on the go at any one time. Sound advice from my English master all those years ago.
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:Don't forget all the books he has read. Three at a time, no doubt.
Originally posted by Tubbs:
OTH, how could that be?!
Tubbs
quote:That the 19 posts out of 50 posted outside of hell are posted with care and thought and that he felt he had something to say.
Originally posted by leo:
quote:31 out of your last 50 posts have been in Hell. I am wondering what that signifies.
Originally posted by mdijon:
I started the thread because I was genuinely annoyed and couldn't help myself. In retrospect it is probably not helping anyone, and I shouldn't have. In fact even at the time I thought that was probably the case, but on this occasion my cognitive centres were unable to inhibit more instinctive neurological activity.
quote:Three books on the go at any one time is impressive; do you complete them using crayons, coloured markers, or carefully sharpened pencil crayons?
Originally posted by leo:
quote:I usually have three books on the go at any one time. Sound advice from my English master all those years ago.
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:Don't forget all the books he has read. Three at a time, no doubt.
Originally posted by Tubbs:
OTH, how could that be?!
Tubbs
quote:The sentiment is kindly received, but I must admit that I have in fact proven myself an ass on several occasions on the ship.
Originally posted by Niteowl:
they don't prove anything unless during said postings one proves themselves an ass. mdijon hasn't proven that yet.
quote:One by the bed, one to read during the day and one in the lavatory to read when one is taking a dump. Like any ordinary person, despite what he may think.
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
Three books on the go at any one time is impressive; do you complete them using crayons, coloured markers, or carefully sharpened pencil crayons?
quote:Only three? Lightweight
Originally posted by leo:
I usually have three books on the go at any one time. Sound advice from my English master all those years ago.
quote:I'm a three-at-one time kind of girl (bookwise!). One, something sort of serious; one something familiar and classic; one easy escapism. Eg, currently: a history of Michael Collins, Sherlock Holmes stories and a Parnell 'Stanley Hastings' Detective story. I take my leisure time seriously!
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:One by the bed, one to read during the day and one in the lavatory to read when one is taking a dump. Like any ordinary person, despite what he may think.
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
Three books on the go at any one time is impressive; do you complete them using crayons, coloured markers, or carefully sharpened pencil crayons?
quote:Rubbish.
Originally posted by RooK:
It's not like anything leo utters matters anyway. Find a post where he seems to know what he's talking about in any meaningful way, and you're undoubtedly looking at something he copy/pasted from somewhere else. He's a useless lying shitstain.
quote:He's that, too.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Rubbish.
Originally posted by RooK:
It's not like anything leo utters matters anyway. Find a post where he seems to know what he's talking about in any meaningful way, and you're undoubtedly looking at something he copy/pasted from somewhere else. He's a useless lying shitstain.
quote:Agreed.
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:Only three? Lightweight
Originally posted by leo:
I usually have three books on the go at any one time. Sound advice from my English master all those years ago.
quote:Oh gosh. How witty.
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:He's that, too.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Rubbish.
Originally posted by RooK:
It's not like anything leo utters matters anyway. Find a post where he seems to know what he's talking about in any meaningful way, and you're undoubtedly looking at something he copy/pasted from somewhere else. He's a useless lying shitstain.
quote:And how dumb on your part. You walked right onto it. Had Pete not posted any of a dozen others would have.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Oh gosh. How witty.
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:He's that, too.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Rubbish.
Originally posted by RooK:
It's not like anything leo utters matters anyway. Find a post where he seems to know what he's talking about in any meaningful way, and you're undoubtedly looking at something he copy/pasted from somewhere else. He's a useless lying shitstain.
quote:You made me go look it up:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Then they would have been equally as stupid.
quote:Six? I've got more than that on the go in the upstairs bathroom .....
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Agreed.
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:Only three? Lightweight
Originally posted by leo:
I usually have three books on the go at any one time. Sound advice from my English master all those years ago.
I'm on six.
Deborah Harness and George Martin, Aquinas, NT Wright, APBA, The Bible.
quote:Didn't know you COULD count them. Anyway, I've got a bookcase in said bathroom, so there
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Magazines and puzzle books in the loo don't count.
quote:Amusingly, considering your persistent inability to seem to grasp anything more nuanced then "Nuh UNH! / Yah HUH!", your comment is really sort of a validation of my opinion. I mean, if you're impressed by someone, then odds are they have high superficial bluster and low meaningful content indexes and happen to fit in somewhat well with your myopic worldview.
Originally posted by Evensong:
Rubbish.
quote:Why did he advise you to read three books simultaneously?
Originally posted by leo:
I usually have three books on the go at any one time. Sound advice from my English master all those years ago.
quote:It's a game. You read alternate sentences from each, the better to be struck by incongruous juxtapositions. You should try it with Lucky Jim, The Man Who Was Thursday and Calvin's Institutes. It's hilarious.
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:Why did he advise you to read three books simultaneously?
Originally posted by leo:
I usually have three books on the go at any one time. Sound advice from my English master all those years ago.
quote:That would, unfortunately for him, cover much of his and Queenie's output.
Originally posted by sebby:
Neither do books which FR Leavis would have described as 'pulp' count.
quote:Ah - like "Consequences", but in novel form!
Originally posted by Firenze:
It's a game. You read alternate sentences from each, the better to be struck by incongruous juxtapositions. You should try it with Lucky Jim, The Man Who Was Thursday and Calvin's Institutes. It's hilarious.
quote:Damn, you know Ruth that well, do you? (Not to mention the implied prejudice against Americans) You also obviously didn't read the thread in question as it was Leo who wasn't interested in any opinion that didn't match his - and there were many who agreed with Ruth. I didn't post there, but I'm one who also agrees with Ruth.
Originally posted by aumbry:
I've always liked Leo. It seems a shame that he has come in for attack by some know-all (presumably American) woman who has total knowledge of the bible and cannot accept any level of debate. Obviously she has read it but possibly not absorbed the message.
quote:She can be every bit as abrasive as Leo, true, but you miss the point that Leo tries the patience of a good many of his shipmates. And he had no patience and was graceless in the thread this hell call was based on.
Originally posted by aumbry:
Ruth seems ghastly and graceless to me. I am amazed by Leo's patience with such a shrew.
quote:I can't find it in me to care.
Originally posted by Chorister:
who the hell is aumbry?
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
if you're impressed by someone, then odds are they have high superficial bluster and low meaningful content indexes
quote:You've got the two protagonists the wrong way round. Leo is the know-all who thinks he has total knowledge of the Bible and cannot accept any level of debate or dissent from his view.
Originally posted by aumbry:
It seems a shame that he has come in for attack by some know-all (presumably American) woman who has total knowledge of the bible and cannot accept any level of debate.
quote:Yes - well when two know-alls get out their bibles there is always trouble but did Leo really deserve being dragged to Hell?
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:You've got the two protagonists the wrong way round. Leo is the know-all who thinks he has total knowledge of the Bible and cannot accept any level of debate or dissent from his view.
Originally posted by aumbry:
It seems a shame that he has come in for attack by some know-all (presumably American) woman who has total knowledge of the bible and cannot accept any level of debate.
quote:If I am a troll I have certainly been one of some perseverance as I have been posting my trolleries for the past decade, probably before your balls dropped.
Originally posted by mdijon:
Something halfway between a troll and a dung beetle.
Philosophically speaking.
quote:Not sure how this is a defence or mitigation of any sort?
Originally posted by aumbry:
If I am a troll I have certainly been one of some perseverance as I have been posting my trolleries for the past decade
quote:
Originally posted by aumbry:
quote:Yes - well when two know-alls get out their bibles there is always trouble but did Leo really deserve being dragged to Hell?
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:You've got the two protagonists the wrong way round. Leo is the know-all who thinks he has total knowledge of the Bible and cannot accept any level of debate or dissent from his view.
Originally posted by aumbry:
It seems a shame that he has come in for attack by some know-all (presumably American) woman who has total knowledge of the bible and cannot accept any level of debate.
Sheer shrewishness by La Ruth in my opinion.
quote:So they haven't dropped then?
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:Not sure how this is a defence or mitigation of any sort?
Originally posted by aumbry:
If I am a troll I have certainly been one of some perseverance as I have been posting my trolleries for the past decade
My balls are still in place thanks. (Not sure what business of yours it is).
quote:I doubt you have ever registered on his radar.
Originally posted by aumbry:
I've always liked Leo.
quote:Aumbry's potted autobigraphy.
It seems a shame that he has come in for attack by some know-all (presumably American) woman who has total knowledge of the bible and cannot accept any level of debate. Obviously she has read it but possibly not absorbed the message.
quote:As you posted this, comparing homosexuality to pederasty and necrophilia, I am pleased to NOT be in your good graces. The anti-American bigotry is just icing on the cake.
Originally posted by aumbry:
Ruth seems ghastly and graceless to me.
quote:Wasted effort. Any fan of leo's obviously doesn't place a high value on originality.
Originally posted by mdijon:
I was just looking for a more original response
quote:For variety e.g. one biography, one book about one's specialist subject and one novel.
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:Why did he advise you to read three books simultaneously?
Originally posted by leo:
I usually have three books on the go at any one time. Sound advice from my English master all those years ago.
quote:Some - presumably - non-American who seems to think that by dragging in the adjective 'American' he's making a case about how awful Ruth is.
Originally posted by Chorister:
I have met leo and Ruth, but who the hell is aumbry?
quote:Well that shows that you are not just a shrew but a dumb shrew because I was doing nothing of the sort. I was merely pointing out that everyone has a point of what is acceptable and what is unacceptable and it is arrogant to expect Africans to follow the same line that American liberals take.
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:As you posted this, comparing homosexuality to pederasty and necrophilia, I am pleased to NOT be in your good graces. The anti-American bigotry is just icing on the cake.
Originally posted by aumbry:
Ruth seems ghastly and graceless to me.
quote:You're probably crediting aumbry with more self awareness than s/he possesses.
Originally posted by Tortuf:
aumbry, I think you are doing one hell of a job distracting attention away from leo.
You may want to consider your potential for coming across as someone who has no facility for debate and flings invective to avoid looking a bit dim.
quote:(my italics)
Originally posted by Yerevan:
I've had Ulysses on the go since circa 2001*. Does that make me an intellectual?
*in fairness I made it to p.330, which 329 pages further than most people.
quote:haha indeed.
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:That would, unfortunately for him, cover much of his and Queenie's output.
Originally posted by sebby:
Neither do books which FR Leavis would have described as 'pulp' count.
quote:
Originally posted by aumbry:
And you are very welcome to go through all of my past posts to find anything remotely anti-gay. It is only dimbo American liberals that I have a problem with.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
You really do have a problem with Americans, don't you. Who'd've thunk it.
quote:Praise the lord.
Originally posted by leo:
2) every member of the teaching staff would have to teach PE - I would never have become a teacher if this had been one of the requirements, nor would most of my colleagues.
quote:"Invective"? Is that what they call shit these days?
Originally posted by Tortuf:
aumbry, I think you are doing one hell of a job distracting attention away from leo.
You may want to consider your potential for coming across as someone who has no facility for debate and flings invective to avoid looking a bit dim.
quote:I have never seen Ruth be ghastly, graceless or shrewish. Have I stumbled into some strange Bizzaro-universe? (A bit like the episode of Buffy where we saw what Xander and Willow would be like if they were vampires?)
Originally posted by aumbry:
Ruth seems ghastly and graceless to me. I am amazed by Leo's patience with such a shrew.
quote:That's true!
Originally posted by mousethief:
Aumbry's brainless anti-Americanism discredits everything s/he says. If her brain can't work well enough to get out of the anti-American gutter, how can we trust its workings in any other department? And calling RuthW a shrew just confirms this assessment.
quote:Apparently alternate universes really do exist. Now I need to find the one where I was born a trust fund baby.
Originally posted by Evensong:
Stand TALL aumbry! Don't let the bastards get you down.
quote:Welcome to the real world.
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
Apparently alternate universes really do exist.
quote:Oooh good point. I take it back.
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
That sort of implies that without the anti-Americanism s/he would be worth reading. I'm sure you can't mean that.
quote:The world where aumbry is a victimized martyr and you are a brave heroine battling for right?
Originally posted by Evensong:
Welcome to the real world.
quote:Now I know you're just trolling.
Originally posted by aumbry:
...the Saintly Leo...
quote:From reading many of your postings in purgatory I used to think you were intelligent, even when I disagreed with you. This post just showed your ugly, ignorant side. Especially the anti-American tripe. Bigotry is ugly.
Originally posted by aumbry:
If you want to know the reason that I consider this creature a shrew you only have to look at the reply she made to my post which she so kindly highlighted on this thread. Admittedly at the time I thought I was still in Purgatory and had not realised I had strayed into Hell but the response was hysterical and came freighted with the Mark of the Shrew to say the very least.
To then discover that she in league with her clones, also decided to attack the Saintly Leo my natural instinct for pure justice and to stand up for the victim and against the bullys took hold. The rest is history.
When the only things you have to go on in Hell is that someone is American then anti-Americanism is the only possible form of vituperation left to one although to be fair my ire was directed at Stupid American Liberals and not Americans in general.
quote:Thank you for making my point for me aumbry.
Originally posted by aumbry:
Various forms of outright bullshit.
quote:That's so stupid it really deserves to be highlighted.
Originally posted by aumbry:
When the only things you have to go on in Hell is that someone is American then anti-Americanism is the only possible form of vituperation left to one
quote:If pointing out the fallacy in what passes for argument in that post and standing up for "old Episcopalian queens in America" makes me a shrew, then I'm proud to be a shrew, thanks.
Originally posted by aumbry:
If you want to know the reason that I consider this creature a shrew you only have to look at the reply she made to my post which she so kindly highlighted on this thread. Admittedly at the time I thought I was still in Purgatory and had not realised I had strayed into Hell but the response was hysterical and came freighted with the Mark of the Shrew to say the very least.
quote:leo is a bore and a buffoon. It would be amusing to call him "the Saintly Leo" from here on out, but I'm afraid he'd think I was serious.
To then discover that she in league with her clones, also decided to attack the Saintly Leo my natural instinct for pure justice and to stand up for the victim and against the bullys took hold. The rest is history.
quote:How very unimaginative of you. Here, let me give you more to work with: I'm 49, I work as the office manager of an extremely liberal congregation in the United Church of Christ, I live 3 1/2 blocks from the beach in southern California, and I spent yesterday evening at the winebar around the corner drinking red wine, knitting and playing Scrabble -- I lost by 20 points to someone 20 years my junior.
When the only things you have to go on in Hell is that someone is American then anti-Americanism is the only possible form of vituperation left to one although to be fair my ire was directed at Stupid American Liberals and not Americans in general.
quote:I might be interested - are you a non-smoker?
Originally posted by RuthW:
[QUOTE] Here, let me give you more to work with: I'm 49, I work as the office manager of an extremely liberal congregation in the United Church of Christ, I live 3 1/2 blocks from the beach in southern California, and I spent yesterday evening at the winebar around the corner drinking red wine, knitting and playing Scrabble -- I lost by 20 points to someone 20 years my junior.
quote:I think someone who has made over 50,000 posts of which barely any are longer than one line is in a position to define the shallows.
Originally posted by mousethief:
Really? If all you have to go on is that someone you dislike is an American, that drives you to chauvenism? Oh my God you are a shallow pool.
quote:Really? Why would that be? And how does that excuse you?
Originally posted by aumbry:
quote:I think someone who has made over 50,000 posts of which barely any are longer than one line is in a position to define the shallows.
Originally posted by mousethief:
Really? If all you have to go on is that someone you dislike is an American, that drives you to chauvenism? Oh my God you are a shallow pool.
quote:Oh no, now you've made Ruth laugh. I suppose it won't be long before
Originally posted by RuthW:
aumbry:
and ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
come out to play and the whole thread will be shot to pieces. quote:*crickets*
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:Really? Why would that be? And how does that excuse you?
Originally posted by aumbry:
quote:I think someone who has made over 50,000 posts of which barely any are longer than one line is in a position to define the shallows.
Originally posted by mousethief:
Really? If all you have to go on is that someone you dislike is an American, that drives you to chauvenism? Oh my God you are a shallow pool.
quote:Some of his comments?
Originally posted by Angloid:
I've defended leo several times on the Ship, just because I have seen a different side of him IRL. I know that some of his online comments come across as dismissive, patronising or just downright rude.
quote:As have most of us, I'm sure, but there's a world of difference between occasionally (or even frequently) feeling uncomfortable in social events and grandly declaring that most people aren't worthy of your attention, particularly if they are not willing to discuss religion or politics with a stranger (and one who, let's be honest, isn't the easiest person in the world with whom to have conversations about religion or politics). I think what causes leo's post to be so offensive is the absurd self-importance of it all: 'other people may make idle chatter, but I am far to important to waste my precious time with unimportant conversation and unimportant people'.
Originally posted by Angloid:
I
I too often just want to curl up and die when surrounded by hundreds of people
quote:I don't really know how old you are, but this is the first post where I've suspected you are under 30.
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
...there's a world of difference between occasionally (or even frequently) feeling uncomfortable in social events and grandly declaring that most people aren't worthy of your attention, particularly if they are not willing to discuss religion or politics with a stranger (and one who, let's be honest, isn't the easiest person in the world with whom to have conversations about religion or politics). I think what causes leo's post to be so offensive is the absurd self-importance of it all: 'other people may make idle chatter, but I am far to important to waste my precious time with unimportant conversation and unimportant people'.
quote:The feeling is quite mutual.
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
I really hope that I'm never stuck at a part with leo, particularly one where I have to sit next to him. Really, leo, is being unpleasant to other people your primary goal in life?
quote:Could be. So why is he posting on that thread in the first place? It's as if he posted six times on the baseball thread in The Circus about how much he is bored to death by baseball and would rather be home reading.
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
It's a bit odd to find myself in the position of defending leo, whose posting style usually makes me want to poke him with a sharp stick, but I have found on my way to geezerhood that there comes a time when you realize your "free time" and your energy are limited. You won't have time to make friends with the whole world, and there is nothing wrong in treasuring and cultivating those few friendships you chose to work on. It's one reason why old people on facebook don't have friend lists numbering in the thousands--because they understand that one can have thousands of acquaintances, but not thousands of friends.
I may have mis-interpreted leo's posts on that thread, but it seemed to me that was very much the rut his thoughts were traveling in.
quote:True. But to write off meeting anybody new socially because you won't have any interests in common is a hell of a statement. How do you know you won't have anything in common with them if you never meet them? What are you going to do when, with the passage of time, your existing small circle of close friends diminishes - look forward to an isolated old age?
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
You won't have time to make friends with the whole world, and there is nothing wrong in treasuring and cultivating those few friendships you chose to work on.
quote:
To begin with, it is exactly the same every time. Anywhere. If you are engaging me in small talk, it means you are treating me in the precise same manner when you approach me as you did the last stranger you approached. And depending on the venue, I may have just seen you approach the person right before me and heard you ask the same asinine questions of them……..-It is irrelevant. If an introvert has decided to leave home and bring himself to a place full of people he doesn't know, chances are there was a very good reason for it. …….He'd like to get on with the specific reason he attended this function. …..Small talk is inauthentic. if they are honest even extroverts will admit that it is just a tool. That even they are not the least bit interested in how difficult it was for me to drive to this building, or if I ran into any traffic on the way. They know that they don't really care, and I certainly know they don't care. It is a rouse to start talking to someone new. But I would rather be approached cold with an authentic question, then be warmed up by the small talk. It's a waste of resources. Mindless small talk requires little brain power. Introverts spend most of their time thinking. Processing ideas. Finding themselves engaged in small talk slams on the brakes of their active brain. The subjects are so empty, there is no need to form an opinion and/or argument that they can then share with those around them. Like renting the biggest self-storage unit in the city and storing nothing in it but a roll of paper towels. It is space and money wasted. Small talk is like that roll sitting in the vast expanse of the mind to an introvert. It's a waste of resources…..It lacks creativity. Many introverts are creative types, and few things are as bereft of creativity as small talk.
quote:It's interesting that the person who starts a thread about trying to restore the fun to worship gets marked as the 'pompous' one. Most pompous people I know take a certain pride in their puritanical joylessness. A bit like leo, really.
Originally posted by Doublethink:
True, and yet, coming from you - when I have read the pompous self-important tone of your posts in Ecclesiantics - it seems like a dispute over the shade of cookware.
quote:Point taken. If I were totally uninterested in small talk, nothing would make me read a thread about it.
Originally posted by RuthW:
Could be. So why is he posting on that thread in the first place? It's as if he posted six times on the baseball thread in The Circus about how much he is bored to death by baseball and would rather be home reading.
quote:This is just bollocks! It's nothing to do with introversion, it's to do with feeling superior.
quote:
...Small talk is like that roll sitting in the vast expanse of the mind to an introvert. It's a waste of resources…
quote:Someone asked about the context of a passage, and I did my best to provide the context. Is that a crime?
Originally posted by Spike:
It's interesting that the person who starts a thread about trying to restore the fun to worship gives such a pompous and po-faced reply to a humourous post about genuflecting up a ladder.
quote:Not according to your introverted blogger--because whatever else Hell may be, it is authentic and genuine.
Originally posted by leo:
Hell is a form of particularly nasty small talk...
quote:And self-righteous and unaccountable?
Originally posted by leo:
I prefer to be energised that enervated
quote:You appear to have a very idiosyncratic definition of small talk. Essentially "discourse I don't like". Generally, we define small talk along the lines of "an informal type of discourse that does not cover any functional topics of conversation or any transactions that need to be addressed."
Hell is a form of particularly nasty small talk...
quote:I'm an extrovert, and I'm crap at it.
It would be interesting to know how many people extolling the virtues of small talk are extroverts.
quote:That seems to equate all interpersonal interactions with small talk.
They [extroverts], the majority of the population, particularly in the Western world, are unlikely to fully understand introverts, unless they are partnered to one, because they are unlikely to encounter them via small talk because we stay away.
quote:My commiserations. But do you really mean 'literally'?
I find 'social occasions' literally painful.
quote:Always? You've never looked around for someone to rescue you from the current bore? Or do you mean, tautologically, "conversations that I happen to be interested in"?
I find one-to-one conversatons life-affirming
quote:I'm an introvert, and I've learned to be pretty good at it. I hate to sound like a fatuous Facebook wall post, but all my friends were once upon a time people I didn't know, and I didn't leap straight into joyful, meaningful, soul-baring conversations when I met them. Chances are they'd have beaten a hasty retreat if I had.
Originally posted by Garasu:
quote:I'm an extrovert, and I'm crap at it.
It would be interesting to know how many people extolling the virtues of small talk are extroverts.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
quote:Fair enough. I just went by leo's quote, and I didn't have the wit to think of putting it into context. I'm maybe being too hard on 'someone else'!
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
Anselmina, before judging leo's "someone else" too harshly, I would suggest reading all the comments in the discussion after his essay. It becomes clear that he is talking about a kind of "small talk" that is much more narrowly focussed than leo's version.
For all I know, he may still be misanthropic--but I don't think leo's post and quote do him justice, and it's very easy to misjudge him in light of leo's use of him (I know, because I did).
quote:The Most Holy Hosts know I certainly carry no brief for that fish, but if his matter-of-fact post is pompous and po-faced, then so is the entire phreaking Ecclesiantics.
It's as though Spike never, ever read Ecclesiantics:
It's interesting that the person who starts a thread about trying to restore the fun to worship gives such a pompous and po-faced reply to a humourous post about genuflecting up a ladder.
quote:Funny you should say that ...
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
The Most Holy Hosts know I certainly carry no brief for that fish, but if his matter-of-fact post is pompous and po-faced, then so is the entire phreaking Ecclesiantics.
quote:HIS essay? Be honest now. Whom did he steal it from?
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
Anselmina, before judging leo's "someone else" too harshly, I would suggest reading all the comments in the discussion after his essay.
quote:Introvert here. Small talk is vital. Can't stand vacuous talk, though, whether large or small.
Originally posted by leo:
It would be interesting to know how many people extolling the virtues of small talk are extroverts.
quote:(very delayed I know, but...)
Originally posted by aumbry:
quote:I think someone who has made over 50,000 posts of which barely any are longer than one line is in a position to define the shallows.
Originally posted by mousethief:
Really? If all you have to go on is that someone you dislike is an American, that drives you to chauvenism? Oh my God you are a shallow pool.
quote:You have no idea how tempting that is.
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
- and, my favorite general interest thread, The shape of the chasuble! fer cryin' out loud. It ought to be retitled, "Poncho or Sandwich Board?"
quote:Data point checking in. I'm an introvert. Some people I know are surprised to hear me say it because I have been socialized to the point where I pass for an extrovert in some situations. Mostly in environments where there are a lot of highly introverted people ... in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. (Although I do seem to have what I call the "It's Showtime" override ... sometimes it's like I'm performing on stage and go into overdrive. I usually crash pretty hard after doing this.) So I guess I am an introvert-leaning ambivert these days, but I started out pretty introverted.
It would be interesting to know how many people extolling the virtues of small talk are extroverts.
They, the majority of the population, particularly in the Western world, are unlikely to fully understand introverts, unless they are partnered to one, because they are unlikely to encounter them via small talk because we stay away.
quote:Yes
Originally posted by Garasu:
quote:My commiserations. But do you really mean 'literally'?
I find 'social occasions' literally painful.
quote:Being an adult also means figuring out how to get a life-work balance.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
being an adult involves figuring out that the entire universe does not revolve around my preferences.
quote:But a working day spent largely in the company of extroverts needs balancing by time for oneself to recharge batteries.
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Leo, I'm as introverted as they come, and find small talk difficult. But I'm not the only person in the world, and my needs don't trump the needs of my extrovert neighbors.
quote:It strikes me, Leo, that a considerate person would respond appropriately at this point.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I said I wasn't going to call you to hell over your sanctimoniously telling me in purgatory that Jesus has nothing to say to me (I mean, really? You honestly have no idea how judgmental and hateful that sounds?)... Oh well, I suppose I should stick to plan A.
quote:That highlights a difference between real life and internet forums. leo can dive straight in with a reply to la vie en rose's post whereas in real life he would have to 'make small talk' to engage with her before they could discuss the matter in hand.
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:It strikes me, Leo, that a considerate person would respond appropriately at this point.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I said I wasn't going to call you to hell over your sanctimoniously telling me in purgatory that Jesus has nothing to say to me (I mean, really? You honestly have no idea how judgmental and hateful that sounds?)... Oh well, I suppose I should stick to plan A.
quote:Hard to get to the Deep and Meaningful stuff without the vacuous small talk first tho hey?
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:Introvert here. Small talk is vital. Can't stand vacuous talk, though, whether large or small.
Originally posted by leo:
It would be interesting to know how many people extolling the virtues of small talk are extroverts.
quote:It's okay. That happens to me too. And I'm awesome at small talk. I can regale you will cloud and weather patterns all day long.
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
In not-unrelated news, someone actually walked right away from me last night in one of those small-talk conversations without any ceremony (distracted by a third party). She caught herself three steps away, but by then of course it was Awkward.
More proof, if any were needed, that I am Crap™ at small talk. And that advice on how to do it right is badly needed.
quote:Last Sunday, I walked out of church with two other women, stopped when they stopped, and continued to rattle on for some minutes until it dawned on me that they were waiting for me to go on so they could discuss something more on the order of large talk.
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
More proof, if any were needed, that I am Crap™ at small talk. And that advice on how to do it right is badly needed.
quote:Well quite. The reason I didn't bother resurrecting this thread myself isn't that I didn't think the comment hellworthy. It was because (a) I usually feel conscience-stricken after calling people nasty names, even when they deserve it and (b) it has been proven time and again that calling leo to hell is a case-study in futility.
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:It strikes me, Leo, that a considerate person would respond appropriately at this point.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I said I wasn't going to call you to hell over your sanctimoniously telling me in purgatory that Jesus has nothing to say to me (I mean, really? You honestly have no idea how judgmental and hateful that sounds?)... Oh well, I suppose I should stick to plan A.
quote:The introversion/extroversion scale is only part of personality dynamic. Other factrors come i9nto pkay too.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Leo, stop giving introverts a bad name. Or acting like being an introvert makes you some kind of intellectual special flower. It doesn't. And I'm allowed to say that. I'm an off the scale introvert.
quote:And this:
INFJs will suddenly withdraw into themselves, sometimes shutting out even their intimates. This apparent paradox is a necessary escape valve for them, providing both time to rebuild their depleted resources and a filter to prevent the emotional overload to which they are so susceptible as inherent "givers." As a pattern of behavior, it is perhaps the most confusing aspect of the enigmatic INFJ character to outsiders, and hence the most often misunderstood -- particularly by those who have little experience with this rare type
quote:I have been gradually been changing into INTJ but there is much that is similar. [URL=http://www.personalitypage.com The Scientist]According to this:[/URL]
Can find too much time with people, especially strangers, draining….need to ‘recharge’ alone when you have spent time with a larger group …INFJs want a meaningful life and deep connections with other people. They do not tend to share themselves freely but appreciate emotional intimacy with a select, committed few. Although their rich inner life can sometimes make them seem mysterious or private to others, they enjoy making authentic connections with people they trust….They think deeply and often need time to process and evaluate before they are ready to share their ideas.
quote:And this:
Other people may have a difficult time understanding an INTJ. They may see them as aloof and reserved
quote:
like to share special occasions with just one or two close friends….loner, more interested in intellectual pursuits than relationships… would rather be friendless than jobless, observer, values solitude
quote:Yes and no. I think a lot of introverts go into church ministry, knowingly or otherwise, because the role ensures that people approach them rather than them having to make the first move. INFJs and INFPs make up a huge percentage of the clergy yet a minute proportion of the population. When I am 'in role' it takes me from 10.00 to 1020 to get from the West Door to the vestry before the 1030 Sunday Mass. People keep stopping me - mostly pastoral stuff.I do the hand-shaking bit at the end - often another 20 mins with no time to get to coffee.
Originally posted by Anselmina:
small-talk is the cement of ongoing pastoral care; the 'pick-up' moments for sensing something might be wrong; a simple hand-press or good wish which makes another person feel that their presence at the event is not invisible or ignorable.
quote:I also think that what constitutes 'pastoral care' varies considerably according to personal type.
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
small-talk is the cement of ongoing pastoral care; the 'pick-up' moments for sensing something might be wrong; a simple hand-press or good wish which makes another person feel that their presence at the event is not invisible or ignorable.
quote:I am not sure how you can know that because:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I have never seen leo post anything on the Ship that made me believe that he was a happy person.)
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
FWIW leo, I am also definitely INJ, borderline on the T/F. And I think you're full of crap. Cut out the "I'm so rare and different and special" nonsense, and just admit that you get a kick out of thinking you're better than other people. Honesty is good for the soul, you know.
Jesus loves you exactly as much as he loves everyone else, including all those extroverts and people who don't read worthy theological tomes and Tory voters and evangelicals. No less, no more.
quote:I did - on the Purgatory thread about alcoholic vicars but i'll summarise the gist here:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:It strikes me, Leo, that a considerate person would respond appropriately at this point.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I said I wasn't going to call you to hell over your sanctimoniously telling me in purgatory that Jesus has nothing to say to me (I mean, really? You honestly have no idea how judgmental and hateful that sounds?)... Oh well, I suppose I should stick to plan A.
quote:
If she was saying that someone who was wounded would not be a good pastor, then she would not want Jesus as a pastor, since he was an abject failure in the terms of this world. he couldn't keep his inner circle loyal to him, he went out of his way to attack respectable leaders, whether political or religious. He could probably have avoided his own execution but he just wouldn't shut up or try to fit in with everyone else.
quote:I'm sure we have all known pastors who take a lot of tracking down. Maybe that's not the kind of "most sought after" leo means, but if they think they lack "people skills" then that is how some clergy turn out to be.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
"Most sought after pastors"? In your parochial little corner of anglocatholicism maybe. I for one have never heard of the dude you just named.
quote:See
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
"Most sought after pastors"? In your parochial little corner of anglocatholicism maybe. I for one have never heard of the dude you just named.
quote:No. I loved my job for 29 of the 30 years.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Furthermore, am I to understand that you have spent your entire working life doing something that you yourself admit you're not cut out for and gives you no pleasure whatsoever? That actually explains a lot.
quote:He didn't say that.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
What I am offended about is your frankly repugnant off the cuff remark that I have no part in Christ (and yes, I do consider this very, very offensive).
quote:The borderline T/F is fascinating and I am desperately trying to understand it since I am not on it - I changed dramatically from high F to high T within a mere three years space between 'taking the tests'.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
FWIW leo, I am also definitely INJ, borderline on the T/F. And I think you're full of crap. Cut out the "I'm so rare and different and special" nonsense
quote:Source here.
Often INTJ are mistaken as arrogant when they are actually self confident
Read more: How to Understand Someone With an INTJ Personality Type | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5360286_understand-someone-intj-personality-type.html#ixzz252dMPuik
....If you do not make sense or are make a lot of small talk, it will be difficult to get along with a INTJ personality very well. INTJ's have little patience for chit chat over nothing
quote:That would be another debate; one which may be found elsewhere on the ship.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I'm just waiting for ken to turn up and call Myers-Briggs a load of crap, TBH.
quote:'Bad' by whose definition.
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
bad social skills.
quote:Oh, well there you are - leo isn't arrogant, he's just confident, and he's found a website that says so.
Originally posted by leo:
I also dug out this little gem:quote:
Often INTJ are mistaken as arrogant when they are actually self confident
quote:You know, something like this would be one of the first things to make me consider that the scientific reviews of MBTI which call it one step above astrology might have a point.
Originally posted by leo:
I changed dramatically from high F to high T within a mere three years space between 'taking the tests'.
quote:MBTI is far from 'a horoscope-style test', though some misuse it as such.
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
a horoscope-style test
quote:Apparently that puts them one up on you.
Originally posted by leo:
Performing seals have 'skills'.
quote:Absolutely agree. It is a too for spiritual direction, not a master.
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
quote:You know, something like this would be one of the first things to make me consider that the scientific reviews of MBTI which call it one step above astrology might have a point....I'd probably be careful about ordering my life around an MBTI profile without further consideration
Originally posted by leo:
I changed dramatically from high F to high T within a mere three years space between 'taking the tests'.
quote:Oh and while I'm here - yes he did say that. It might not have been what he meant, but it *was* what he said. It was judgmental and offensive in the extreme. If it wasn't what he meant, he needs to be more careful with his language. He may think "Christ has nothing to say to you" is a comment that doesn't mean much, but I don't.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:He didn't say that.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
What I am offended about is your frankly repugnant off the cuff remark that I have no part in Christ (and yes, I do consider this very, very offensive).
You took it the wrong way.
quote:Exactly. If he had gone into more depth to begin with--BEFORE the damage was done--he would have had a chance to be less offensive in making his point. Doing so after the initial rudeness just means any point he may have had will always be tainted by that first response. A one-line post is never going to convey a complex and subtle train of thought, even if you're good at it (hi, mousethief).
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
It might not have been what he meant, but it *was* what he said.
quote:Yes, how terrible that is. When they cling to a "diagnosis" and use it to proclaim that "this is just how I am, so you'll have to put up with it". Just as well no one here does that, eh?
Originally posted by leo:
quote:MBTI is far from 'a horoscope-style test', though some misuse it as such.
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
a horoscope-style test
quote:This is compounded by not admitting a mistake or issuing an apology. If it had swiftly been followed with a "Sorry how that came across, I really didn't mean it quite as starkly as it looks as an unqualified one-liner, what I really meant was..." then damage would not be done.
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
I've long wondered if part of leo's perception problem on the ship (not all of it, mind you, but part of it) is that he is crap as a writer. When your posts consistently don't convey what you mean them to convey over a long period of time with a wide variety of shipmates, the problem usually isn't "other people".
quote:They also have talent.
Originally posted by leo:
Performing seals have 'skills'.
quote:I'd have to see how soulful his eyes were.
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(And if I had a club and was standing in front of a baby seal and leo, I can tell you which one I'd go after…)
quote:Good distinction!
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:Introvert here. Small talk is vital. Can't stand vacuous talk, though, whether large or small.
Originally posted by leo:
It would be interesting to know how many people extolling the virtues of small talk are extroverts.
quote:Choruses of 'See my vest, see my vest.....' running through my mind now.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:I'd have to see how soulful his eyes were.
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
(And if I had a club and was standing in front of a baby seal and leo, I can tell you which one I'd go after…)
quote:leo, an Anglo-Catholic!
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
In your parochial little corner of anglocatholicism maybe.
quote:The entire posting history of our friend leo in Ecclesiantics, evidently.
Originally posted by beachcomber:
What is a maniple ? How bad do they get ?
Can a person learn to adjust to their post-maniple condition successfully ?
Have I missed something ?
quote:You don't need to wait for ken:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I'm just waiting for ken to turn up and call Myers-Briggs a load of crap, TBH.
quote:You have been maniple-ated.
Originally posted by Angloid:
Pray for me, brethren. I wore a maniple on Tuesday for the first time in about 40 years.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:You don't need to wait for ken:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I'm just waiting for ken to turn up and call Myers-Briggs a load of crap, TBH.
Myers-Briggs is a load of crap.
There. You can package it up with Enneagrams and ship them back to your favorite, meddlesome diocesan consultant.
quote:Yeah? Well, you're both so ESTJ. And ken.
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Seconded.
quote:Well, yeah, but it's like chewing gum, right? A lot of work and you get absolutely nowhere, but sometimes that's what you feel like doing.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
... it has been proven time and again that calling leo to hell is a case-study in futility.
quote:Heavens!
Originally posted by Angloid:
Pray for me, brethren. I wore a maniple on Tuesday for the first time in about 40 years.
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
quote:Yes, yes. Join the club. Another INFJ here, sometimes considered by others to be INTJ, somewhere near the borderline.
Originally posted by leo:
I have usually been 'assessed' as INFJ - the rarest personality type, consisting of only 2% of the general population. According to this:quote:And this:
INFJs will suddenly withdraw into themselves, sometimes shutting out even their intimates. This apparent paradox is a necessary escape valve for them, providing both time to rebuild their depleted resources and a filter to prevent the emotional overload to which they are so susceptible as inherent "givers." As a pattern of behavior, it is perhaps the most confusing aspect of the enigmatic INFJ character to outsiders, and hence the most often misunderstood -- particularly by those who have little experience with this rare typequote:
Can find too much time with people, especially strangers, draining….need to ‘recharge’ alone when you have spent time with a larger group …INFJs want a meaningful life and deep connections with other people. They do not tend to share themselves freely but appreciate emotional intimacy with a select, committed few. Although their rich inner life can sometimes make them seem mysterious or private to others, they enjoy making authentic connections with people they trust….They think deeply and often need time to process and evaluate before they are ready to share their ideas.
quote:And suddenly I'm filled with terror. There are certain people (you know, about two-thirds of the Ship) that just should not be trusted with nuclear weapons.
Originally posted by Evensong:
One of those funky websites told me I was ESTJ and being a military leader was a suitable career for me.
HELL YEAH
quote:I think you'll find the J goes at the front.
Originally posted by Evensong:
One of those funky websites told me I was ESTJ and being a military leader was a suitable career for me.
HELL YEAH
quote:Oddly plausible. In that it is consistent with the fact that many Shipmates repeatedly tell you how unsuited you would be to pastoral care.
Originally posted by Evensong:
One of those funky websites told me I was ESTJ and being a military leader was a suitable career for me.
HELL YEAH
quote:It comes from the Keirsey Temperament Sorter, which is a pretty common social dynamics/workplace personality test. Basically, you're given a short-ish test with questions like "Would you rather be just or merciful?" After answering them, your basic personality type is sorted out based on four pairs of variables.
Originally posted by jacobsen:
Somebody explain all those terms, please? I tried the site in Leo's link, but it seemed to be self indulgent mumbo jumbo. YMMV. I gather that Leo's does.
quote:At the risk of heading back towards Purgatory, I'm not sure we did all want to be like other people as adolescents. Certainly one of the defining characteristics of the group I hung out with was that we weren't all like other people. We were largely like each other, admittedly, so we wanted to be like some other people, but we certainly bucked the general fashion/trend at the time.
Originally posted by jacobsen:
Query: As adolescents we all wanted to be like the other dandelions. What went wrong? Oh, I see. we grew up. Or did we?
quote:Fortunately for the rest of the world your age would preclude entry to Duntroon.
Originally posted by Evensong:
One of those funky websites told me I was ESTJ and being a military leader was a suitable career for me.
HELL YEAH
quote:Could it be that prizing these things on an intellectual level is one thing, while doing something practical to bring this happy state of affairs about is something completely different?
Originally posted by Ariston:
Right, aren't the F's supposed to be concerned with others, prizing personal relationships over the rigors of logic, making arguments based on communitarian goods and eschewing conflict and self-aggrandizement?
I think we have proof that someone, somewhere, got something very wrong.
quote:I don't particularly want to get into the argument on MBTI but I would say that I find it helpful. But one of the things that was emphasised to us in the sessions on it I've attended is that one's type isn't an excuse. So I don't go round saying I can't talk to people or visit people or whatever because I'm an introvert. I have a standing joke with a colleague that I have no feelings (I'm a thinking type) and she can't think (a feeling type) but of course we can both do both - it's about recognising which things we do naturally and which things we need to learn or put more energy into. But bad behaviour or bad ministry is bad behaviour or bad ministry whatever your Myers-Briggs type.
Originally posted by chive:
People always find ways of justifying their bad behaviour. That's what leo's use of the Myers thingy is all about. I'm incredibly introverted, I hate being in groups and making small talk but every day professionally I talk to hundreds of people for a living. It's a piece of piss. You learn how to do what you need and if you're not prepared to do that and blame some spurious psychological nonsense for it, frankly you're just a fuckwit.
quote:What was the right way to take it?
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:He didn't say that.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
What I am offended about is your frankly repugnant off the cuff remark that I have no part in Christ (and yes, I do consider this very, very offensive).
You took it the wrong way.
quote:I don't know how anybody gets exactly the same result with that thing. The questions are worded in such a way as to present you with a straightforward black and white choice between concepts and hypothetical situations which are far from clearcut.
Originally posted by orfeo:
Should those of us who keep getting much the same result place credence in it, then? Following the same logic.
quote:My work here is done!
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:You don't need to wait for ken:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I'm just waiting for ken to turn up and call Myers-Briggs a load of crap, TBH.
Myers-Briggs is a load of crap.
There. You can package it up with Enneagrams and ship them back to your favorite, meddlesome diocesan consultant.
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
quote:(Actually I come out consistently as ENFP, usually pretty near the extremes of that description)
Originally posted by QLib:
]Yeah? Well, you're both so ESTJ. And ken.
quote:Good grief! There are two?
Originally posted by PeteC:
My twin...
quote:Which is the entire point. It's about preferences. Not about clear-cut "this is always right".
Originally posted by Ariel:
There are times when one response is preferential to the other.
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:Good grief! There are two?
Originally posted by PeteC:
My twin...
That's how we arrange 24 hour coverage in Hell.
quote:Fo Shizzle
Originally posted by chive:
People always find ways of justifying their bad behaviour. That's what leo's use of the Myers thingy is all about. I'm incredibly introverted, I hate being in groups and making small talk but every day professionally I talk to hundreds of people for a living. It's a piece of piss. You learn how to do what you need and if you're not prepared to do that and blame some spurious psychological nonsense for it, frankly you're just a fuckwit.
quote:Shit, why am I always online with the evil one...
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:Good grief! There are two?
Originally posted by PeteC:
My twin...
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
quote:Precisely, so how do you decide which option to pick, when either might come into play in any given hypothetical situation? It's impossible to make a blanket generalization, and ludicrous that people actually base suitability for employment on this farcical rubbish.
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:Which is the entire point. It's about preferences. Not about clear-cut "this is always right".
Originally posted by Ariel:
There are times when one response is preferential to the other.
quote:First off, leo did not say that la vie en rouge had no part in Christ. That is her interpretation of his comment.
Originally posted by Eliab:
quote:What was the right way to take it?
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:He didn't say that.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
What I am offended about is your frankly repugnant off the cuff remark that I have no part in Christ (and yes, I do consider this very, very offensive).
You took it the wrong way.
I can see that it might have been meant as an insult. I can see that it might have been meant as a rebuke. I can't see any way in which it could possibly have been meant to be nice.
quote:The point was a theological one, not a personal one.
Then Jesus probably has little to offer you.
quote:that is the good one! you don't wanna see Bad Petey... nobody wants to see Bad Petey. Back before I met Bad Petey, I was a sweet sunday school teacher who had never said a foul word, drank a drop of alcohol, or grabbed a man's package in a public place.
Originally posted by Patdys:
quote:Shit, why am I always online with the evil one...
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:Good grief! There are two?
Originally posted by PeteC:
My twin...
I'd like to see the good one, just once. mutter, mutter...
quote:Why is it that the classic comparison of behaviour is to Jesus rebuking people or driving out traders with a whip when justifying behaving like an arsehole? Don't people get that comparing yourself to Jesus in such a situation makes you look like an even bigger arsehole?
Originally posted by Evensong:
If leo was "rebuking" la vie en rouge then it was only in the same sense Jesus rebukes Peter when Peter denies that Jesus must suffer.
quote:And the way that most people would make that point would be to say that:
Originally posted by Evensong:
It's the suffering issue. They were discussing wounded healers and healed healers. leo was just pointing out Jesus was certainly in the former category.
quote:No, she's not. If someone, who supposedly understands Christianity, said that to me I'd be offended as well. Not to mention no one has the right to tell anyone how they should feel. The right thing, or dare I say Christian thing to do if someone tells you they've been hurt by something you said is to apologize because whether you meant it or not, they were hurt.
Originally posted by Evensong:
Whatever.
I think she took something personally which was not meant personally. Too touchy.
quote:Now we're talking about feelings??
Originally posted by Niteowl:
Not to mention no one has the right to tell anyone how they should feel.
quote:Fair enough. And I suspect most of us on this Ship would do so if we learnt in real life that we had offended someone inadvertently. But must we apologize for such a thing on a purgatorial discussion board?
Originally posted by Niteowl:
The right thing, or dare I say Christian thing to do if someone tells you they've been hurt by something you said is to apologize because whether you meant it or not, they were hurt.
quote:That's a terrible analogy considering you know some of my recent history.
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
I saw a movie once where a wife catches her husband in bed with another woman.
The wife keeps asking "who is that woman?" while the husband keeps responding "what woman?" as the woman gets dressed and leaves the room.
Finally the man convinces the wife she did not see what she saw.
quote:No my dear. It's called "People Really Do Think Differently and Understand Things Differently - Especially in a Text Based Medium When So Many Things Can Go Wrong".
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
That is evensong's modus operandi except it doesn't work as well in a text-based medium.
quote:Ah, situational ethics.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Fair enough. And I suspect most of us on this Ship would do so if we learnt in real life that we had offended someone inadvertently. But must we apologize for such a thing on a purgatorial discussion board?
Originally posted by Niteowl:
The right thing, or dare I say Christian thing to do if someone tells you they've been hurt by something you said is to apologize because whether you meant it or not, they were hurt.
*shrug*.....up to the persons involved methinks.
quote:It was a theological point expressed in a personally offensive way. The same theological point could have been expressed in an abstract inoffensive way, or a personal but respectful way.
Originally posted by Evensong:
It was a theological point for crying out loud
quote:Obviously it is up to the person involved, as it is up to the rest of us to decide whether to think them a sanctimonious prig if they fail to apologise for being crassly offensive.
Originally posted by Evensong:
But must we apologize for such a thing on a purgatorial discussion board?.....up to the persons involved methinks.
quote:WTF do you think "touchy" refers to if not someone's emotional reactions? Fuckwit.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Now we're talking about feelings??
Originally posted by Niteowl:
Not to mention no one has the right to tell anyone how they should feel.
Nothing to do with what I said.
)
quote:Spent much time in an English mainstream school recently? I'm guessing not.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
He throws out what he thinks is a brilliant cryptic one-liner and expects me to go “oh really, whatever can you mean by that? You’re so clever, mr leo sir and you know so much more than I do about, well everything really, please condescend to instruct me. Thank you mr leo sir, I am your humble disciple.”
Now in a classroom full of thirteen year-olds I can see how this might work.
quote:Glad to see you've repented.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I know, I know, I said I wasn't going to call him to hell. In my defence, the only reason I gave for not doing it was laziness
quote:Thirty years teaching in urban comprehensive schools doesn't sound very 'churchly' to me.
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore:
I think, la vie en rouge, leo has led an extremely circumscribed, rather "churchly" sort of life.
quote:OK then, not churchly, but if you spend all your working life in the same kind of school, and your worshipping life in the same kind of church, you are unlikely to gain a broad appreciation. Do I know what life's like for professional sportsmen or royalty? Not a clue. Does it stop me commenting on them? Not one bit, but I don't pretend to be what I'm not.
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:Thirty years teaching in urban comprehensive schools doesn't sound very 'churchly' to me.
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore:
I think, la vie en rouge, leo has led an extremely circumscribed, rather "churchly" sort of life.
quote:Everyone has a hinterland: rich, barren or in between.
Originally posted by Angloid:
...
He doesn't help himself by not revealing glimpses of his 'hinterland'. But we don't know whether he's got one or not.
quote:Yeah but my Myers-Briggs is INRI
Originally posted by mdijon:
Don't people get that comparing yourself to Jesus in such a situation makes you look like an even bigger arsehole?
quote:You two would be great fun to meet. I'll have to come to Bristol some day for a shipmeet.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Well he just sailed down the highstreet in Bristol, passed me sitting in a cafe, seemingly without a care in the world. I waved. He did not see me. Broken hearted.
Fly safe. Pyx_e
quote:Sorry mate - saw two other people (priests in civvies, even) in Browns and waved to them on my way down.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Well he just sailed down the highstreet in Bristol, passed me sitting in a cafe, seemingly without a care in the world. I waved. He did not see me. Broken hearted.
Fly safe. Pyx_e
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Don't people get that comparing yourself to Jesus in such a situation makes you look like an even bigger arsehole?
quote:And so is the Myers-Briggs result for INRI are quite close to the result ARSE?
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Yeah but my Myers-Briggs is INRI
quote:Meh. It was a clever line. Your follow-up is petty and pointless.
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Don't people get that comparing yourself to Jesus in such a situation makes you look like an even bigger arsehole?quote:And so is the Myers-Briggs result for INRI are quite close to the result ARSE?
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Yeah but my Myers-Briggs is INRI
quote:Not so.
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
For clarity: my Myers-Briggs score is ARSE. So is yours. So is everyone else's.
quote:I don't think anyone minds when you use Jesus as a yardstick against whom to measure your failings.
Originally posted by Evensong:
I frequently compare myself to Jesus.
Seeing as how he is the pioneer and perfector of my faith 'n all.
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
For clarity: my Myers-Briggs score is ARSE. So is yours. So is everyone else's.
quote:I sense an updating of the chief of sinners prayer coming on.
Originally posted by Evensong:
Not so.
Mine is even bigger ARSE (according to mdijon).
quote:I frequently shout "Jesus!" after reading your posts. Does that count?
I frequently compare myself to Jesus.
Seeing as how he is the pioneer and perfector of my faith 'n all.
quote:That sounds more like an ejaculation to me.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
I frequently shout "Jesus!" after reading your posts.
quote:Unless you work for Reform.
(Surprisingly enough, that link is very work-safe).
quote:Do you really not comprehend how that might sound to someone else, try imagining it with someone else's name attached - what would you think ?
Originally posted by leo elsewhere:
Even in our liberal-ish church i am appalled at the number of people who tell me that they -respect' my authority because of my role and that what I say carries more weight than what some others say.
I think this is very dangerous and i can see how an inadequate person could use this to his/her advantage.
quote:I actually think it means he kinda likes her. You gotta learn how to speak Pyx_e.
Originally posted by mdijon:
Now that's just pointless and petty.
quote:leo is up his own arse. Discuss.
Why don't you deal with that issue HERE, ON THIS THREAD?
Readers who get 'up themselves' are the chief reason that I held out from becoming one.
Abuse of leadership positions in the Church is a serious issue that deserves more debate that the slagging off and lack of serious debate that goes on in Hell.
quote:What's to add?
Originally posted by PeteC:
leo is up his own arse. Discuss.
quote:Nothing much. As with all great feats of physicality, all you can really do is stand back, marvel, and thank your personal diety representative you're not the one with your head stuck up in there.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:What's to add?
Originally posted by PeteC:
leo is up his own arse. Discuss.
quote:That's a praise session after a successful weight-watching week?
Originally posted by Spiffy:
thank your personal diety representative
quote:Well the story I linked to was about the magnitude of sin and forgiveness and ensuing gratitude.
Originally posted by mdijon:
I was more after something like "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save arses, of whom I am the best endowed (i.e. according to the Myers-Briggs scale)."
quote:He says he's 6'7".
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:What's to add?
Originally posted by PeteC:
leo is up his own arse. Discuss.
quote:Good grief.
Originally posted by Doublethink:
quote:
Originally posted by leo elsewhere:
Even in our liberal-ish church i am appalled at the number of people who tell me that they -respect' my authority because of my role and that what I say carries more weight than what some others say.
I think this is very dangerous and i can see how an inadequate person could use this to his/her advantage.
quote:Not wishing to break the flow of hilarious puns, but I think the origin of weasel words and weasel apologies is the mythical ability of weasels to suck eggs - i.e. to suck out the contents leaving an empty shell. Hence weasel words are those that deliberately mislead, but are actually empty inside.
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
(Not that it matters, but FWIW I still haven't had an apology apart from that weaselly* one that wasn't.)
quote:Can you not see that it is pompous to behave like someone's teacher when you are both just two posters on a bulletin board? And, when you asked your teachers to explain, justify or elaborate on a point they had just made, were their responses solely confined to "Go read <list of books>"? If so, they were bad teachers. A list of 'if you want to know more ...' books should be an add-on, not a substitute for a real response.
Originally posted by leo:
If helping someone by suggesting books is pompous, then all the people who ever attempted top teach me in school and uni were pompous.
quote:This bulletin board doesn't like detailed quotes but then again it criticeses short posts too.
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:Can you not see that it is pompous to behave like someone's teacher when you are both just two posters on a bulletin board? And, when you asked your teachers to explain, justify or elaborate on a point they had just made, were their responses solely confined to "Go read <list of books>"? If so, they were bad teachers. A list of 'if you want to know more ...' books should be an add-on, not a substitute for a real response.
Originally posted by leo:
If helping someone by suggesting books is pompous, then all the people who ever attempted top teach me in school and uni were pompous.
Half your problems on here seem to be caused by a difficulty in summarizing in any kind of depth the ideas that have informed your thinking. Maybe this is a skill you find difficult, but if you don't develop it, you are not going to be able to properly engage with people on this board.
I have a lot of time for you, leo. Some of the things you have posted about your early life have been very touching. But your posting style is intellectually lazy and disrespectful. If you can't be arsed to be respectful why bother to come here at all?
quote:Of all the things that I might've written about Chesterbelloc myself, this definitely would not have been one of them!
Originally posted by leo:
However, you rarely seem to write anything yourself which expresses your own opinions.
quote:Every post I've read from Chesterbelloc with people who are interested in discussion, not text citations, has been informative and he has been patient with those who have earnest questions. He most definitely is NOT a windup merchant. However, I think you are blind as to how you come off to people.
Originally posted by leo:
Chesterbelloc is a wind up merchant who, to my knowledge, never posts anything in detail but merely criticises others. He seems most secure in his conservative beliefs and doesn't want to engage in anything that gives him cognitive dissonance.
quote:Length is irrelevant. What people expect (at least in Purg) is a contribution that states, explains and justifies a case largely in the poster's own words. It's OK to say: "As I understand it, X argues that.... and I agree with this because..." but it is not acceptable to quote great chunks of X (with no real attempt to say why you think what X is saying is so true/significant/important) nor to just say "go read X because I can't actually be bothered to explain the point to you."
Originally posted by leo:
This bulletin board doesn't like detailed quotes but then again it criticeses short posts too.
quote:This bulletin board, or to be accurate the hosts and admins, doesn't like jerks. You're way smarter than me, haven't you worked that out?
Originally posted by leo:
This bulletin board doesn't like detailed quotes but then again it criticeses short posts too.
quote:You're expressing a fair bit of cognitive dissonance yourself there. Don't you want to be made aware of your own shortcomings?
Chesterbelloc is a wind up merchant who, to my knowledge, never posts anything in detail but merely criticises others. He seems most secure in his conservative beliefs and doesn't want to engage in anything that gives him cognitive dissonance.
quote:Being ageist = being a jerk, IMO. Fuck you so very much.
Originally posted by Amos:
As eny fule kno, I am not one of leo's fans. Nor can I entirely avoid glancing at the car-crash of his participation on any given thread.
However I've noticed of late that he's been posting more and more, and also somewhat more wildly. His spelling and grammar are worse than usual. His style is almost a parody of its former self (if such a thing can be).
Two possibilities come to mind:
1. A former poster on these boards has murdered the real leo and stolen his SoF identity. The real leo moulders under some crazy paving and a wishing well in the suburbs of Bristol. His landlord has not yet noticed his absence, and his colleagues at church are hoping that if they don't mention that he's gone, he will somehow, magically, stay away forever.
2. Leo is getting old. In real life.
quote:There, there, old boy. Don't get your Depends ™ all twisted.
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
So, Amos' suggestion that leo is either dead or getting old is not ageist, HOW???
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:Of all the things that I might've written about Chesterbelloc myself, this definitely would not have been one of them!
Originally posted by leo:
However, you rarely seem to write anything yourself which expresses your own opinions.
quote:The very nub of my nark.
Originally posted by QLib:
To behave in this way leads people to think that you are either extremely arrogant or else that you are spewing up other people's half-digested ideas because your own intellectual limitations prevent you from serving up a proper contribution of your own. Or both.
quote:Amos, haven't we had this discussion before, only for leo to intervene to tell us he was only 61? I'm as sympathetic as the next papist to the plight of senility - I fully expect to go that way myself (you'll know when I start triple-posting) - but...
Originally posted by Amos:
Leo is getting old. In real life.
quote:Spewing them half-digested, or just copying and pasting them without attribution. I'm beginning to think leo has never had an original thought in his life.
Originally posted by QLib:
To behave in this way leads people to think that you are either extremely arrogant or else that you are spewing up other people's half-digested ideas because your own intellectual limitations prevent you from serving up a proper contribution of your own. Or both.
quote:If Amos had written: 2. leo must big a big-breated blonde IRL, that would be obvious sexism; replace that with leo is getting old IRL and you have ageism. Add PeteC's comment to it and it is doubly ageism.
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:There, there, old boy. Don't get your Depends ™ all twisted.
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
So, Amos' suggestion that leo is either dead or getting old is not ageist, HOW???
quote:Yes, but in his case, we can probably blame the Drambuie - or was it Cointreau?
Originally posted by Amos:
....irritating and pitiably gaga. Kind of like Loquacious Beachcomber.
quote:Yup, defintely posible, Amos - I grant you that. If that is what's happening, I'm sympathetic. But why jump to those conclusions?
Originally posted by Amos:
Chesterbelloc--Early onset Alzheimers? Vascular dementia?
quote:<Gives Chesterbelloc an old-fashioned look> I'll have you know that I have never nubbed anyone's nark in a public forum, and I certainly don't intend to start now.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
quote:The very nub of my nark.
Originally posted by QLib:
To behave in this way ...
quote:No, the H&A's don't care about detailed quotes, so long as you don't put the Ship in danger of getting sued for copyright infringement. We also don't like it when people plagiarize—and get really cranky when they try stratagems to dodge it that would be beyond shameful if a 16-year-old tried them. Nobody likes it when others quote at length, then summarize what was said, then act like they said something profound. In publishing, we have a word for manuscripts and authors who do that: declined.
Originally posted by leo:
This bulletin board doesn't like detailed quotes but then again it criticeses short posts too.
Chesterbelloc is a wind up merchant who, to my knowledge, never posts anything in detail but merely criticises others. He seems most secure in his conservative beliefs and doesn't want to engage in anything that gives him cognitive dissonance.
quote:This. And so as not to taint the Styx thread, let me just say here that, if I were called upon to offer an explanation for the perceived change in leo's post-style Amos described thus:
Originally posted by Ariston:
We also don't like it when people plagiarize—and get really cranky when they try stratagems to dodge it that would be beyond shameful if a 16-year-old tried them. Nobody likes it when others quote at length, then summarize what was said, then act like they said something profound. In publishing, we have a word for manuscripts and authors who do that: declined.
quote:I would suggest alternatively that it's at least partly because he was forced to stop passing off big articulate chunks of other people's writing as his own. It was the style of those posts in which he sounded really coherent and articulate that alerted me to the possibility that they weren't his in the first place.
if it's possible to say on a Hell thread that someone is now posting as if a ten year old got into their account, then it should not be impossible to suggest, quite seriously, that the last 1,000 or so of someone's 17,000 posts are uncharacteristic and suggest an age-related health problem
quote:19 of your previous 50 posts are either about me or addressed to me.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
Go on then, leo - turn it round so it's all about me. See if that works out for you.
quote:leo, some of Chesterbelloc's posts about you are in response to a pretty nasty post of yours about him. You really should ask yourself why anyone should be driven to post so much about you.
Originally posted by leo:
quote:19 of your previous 50 posts are either about me or addressed to me.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
Go on then, leo - turn it round so it's all about me. See if that works out for you.
Seems like some unhealthy obsession.
quote:You are not my teacher, nor Chesterbelloc's. Neither of us requires instruction from the likes of you.
Originally posted by leo:
If helping someone by suggesting books is pompous, then all the people who ever attempted top teach me in school and uni were pompous.
quote:Man, this Hell-call (you know - the one with your name on it) is 9 pages long. I didn't chip in till yesterday at the arse-end of page 8.
Originally posted by leo:
quote:19 of your previous 50 posts are either about me or addressed to me.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
Go on then, leo - turn it round so it's all about me. See if that works out for you.
Seems like some unhealthy obsession.
quote:I agree. It's a skill I find very difficult and I struggle to engage properly with discussions in Purg. It doesn't stop me posting my opinions and questions there occasionally, but folk just scroll on past - and I don't blame them at all.
Originally posted by QLib:
Half your problems on here seem to be caused by a difficulty in summarizing in any kind of depth the ideas that have informed your thinking. Maybe this is a skill you find difficult, but if you don't develop it, you are not going to be able to properly engage with people on this board.
quote:"Delusions of adequacy" as my brother describes it.
Originally posted by Boogie:
Leo's problem, as defined above by many shipmates, is that he pretends to have academic and intellectual prowess when he doesn't.
quote:You showed remarkable restraint. Is it lent or something?
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
Man, this Hell-call (you know - the one with your name on it) is 9 pages long. I didn't chip in till yesterday at the arse-end of page 8.
quote:Little-known motets: Our God is a jogging angler
Originally posted by Evensong:
I recommend running or fishing or some other pastime more pleasing to the Lord.
quote:I can see why the hymn writer stuck with, "Our God is a great big God ..." as that doesn't scan too well.
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:Little-known motets: Our God is a jogging angler
Originally posted by Evensong:
I recommend running or fishing or some other pastime more pleasing to the Lord.
quote:How ironic.
Originally posted by Evensong:
or fishing
quote:Quite.
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:How ironic.
Originally posted by Evensong:
or fishing
quote:Leaving aside the colossal irony of my being coached by you in spiritually constructive posting, I think you'd find my "obsession" with leo (along with that of several others) would evaporate like the very dew if he would just stop being such a prolificly mendacious jerk - and even once own up to or apologise for a single instance of his postardry.
Originally posted by Evensong:
Nevertheless, you are obsessed with leo. I recommend running or fishing or some other pastime more pleasing to the Lord.
quote:Yes, it's quite pukesome.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
... [leo's] postardry ...
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Little-known motets: Our God is a jogging angler
quote:Scroll on past boy, scroll on past - preserve your sanity.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
That kind of thing, superadded to his overweeningly pompous, fake-learned and smoke-screening habits, is apt to irk after a while. After six years it can even begin to grate a bit.
quote:Would be nice.
Originally posted by Stejjie:
Now, they may have been rubbish; but some kind of engagement with them and not just the "Oooh I can correct him here" response would've been nice...
quote:leo must have cornered the market on red pencils when he was "working" Too bad his spelling and grammar are so shit, innit?
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:Would be nice.
Originally posted by Stejjie:
Now, they may have been rubbish; but some kind of engagement with them and not just the "Oooh I can correct him here" response would've been nice...
