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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Man imprisoned for wearing t-shirt
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
A man named Barry is imprisoned for wearing a homemade, fairly mean-spirited t-shirt.
For 8 months.
WHAT THE FUCK?
We're going to imprison people for wearing the wrong clothing?!?
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
This is why Americans believe in freedom of speech.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
He was imprisoned for being in breach of a suspended sentence.
No, that was only 4 months of the 8 months he was imprisoned for. The other 4 were purely for wearing the t-shirt.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
Quite. He sounds like a cock but not even cocks should be imprisoned for wearing clothes that others find offensive.
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
Posts: 8049 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
"Stuart Duke, defending, said Thew had been an inpatient at a mental health unit and was still on anti-psychotic medicine, but the judge replied mental health was "not a factor".
He said Thew had a longstanding dispute with Greater Manchester police over the death of his son three years ago and repeated stop-and-search procedures. He said the wearing of the T-shirt was not in response to the deaths of the two police officers, but was related to another case. He said he was already wearing the T-shirt when he heard the news."
You've got to wonder how a shirt reading 'One Dead PiG' becomes connected to the murder of
two officers. It looks like someone has taken offence too easily. Not a Shipmate then.
Is Judge Lakin making a bid for the Melford Stevenson Memorial Award?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
He's obviously a guy with problems - as well as broaching his parole. Despite the hurt feelings and offence it seems to be making more of this than it needs, to imprison him for it. Sounds like he needs more therapy rather than more prison time.
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
He's obviously a guy with problems - as well as broaching his parole. Despite the hurt feelings and offence it seems to be making more of this than it needs, to imprison him for it. Sounds like he needs more therapy rather than more prison time.
I'm sorry, I really doubt the clothing he was wearing was either a) specified in the parole conditions or b) can justly be taken into account when setting a punishment for breaking the bail conditions. The whole idea is preposterous.
The guy might be a total fruitcake, but that is no reason to throw the book at him on account of his clothing. Whatever next? Judging criminals by their collar size?
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Freedom of speech, yeah; freedom for hate speech, no, not really.
In the 1980s, I saw idiots wearing T-shirts featuring what looked at first like a can of Raid bug spray, and bearing the slogan: "AIDS - kills fags dead before they spread."
That, IMO, crossed the line into hate crime; so the line is probably there, like it or not.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Given he was psychiatrically unwell, and in dispute with the police over the death of his son - I'd have been inclined to just confiscate the t-shirt.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
He was not imprisoned for wearing a t-shirt. he was imprisoned for displaying an offensive and inciting t-shirt.
Is he a 22-carat wank-head? Yes. Does that deserve a custodial sentence? No, thank fuck, or we would all be inside. Is it a reasonable response to a very poorly timed slogan? Probably.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for him. He knew it was provocative. It was unfortunate and delicate timing, and he paid for that. But he is clearly a complete tosser, so it is one less arsehole on the streets.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
There is no freedom of speech without freedom of hate speech.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
He's obviously a guy with problems - as well as broaching his parole. Despite the hurt feelings and offence it seems to be making more of this than it needs, to imprison him for it. Sounds like he needs more therapy rather than more prison time.
I'm sorry, I really doubt the clothing he was wearing was either a) specified in the parole conditions or b) can justly be taken into account when setting a punishment for breaking the bail conditions. The whole idea is preposterous.
The guy might be a total fruitcake, but that is no reason to throw the book at him on account of his clothing. Whatever next? Judging criminals by their collar size?
Isn't that what I said? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
There is no freedom of speech without freedom of hate speech.
Only one country on the planet thinks that.
But then of course you go "oh, terribly sorry, there IS freedom of speech without freedom of defamatory speech", etc etc.
Absolutist when it suits you. Not absolutist when it doesn't.
[ 12. October 2012, 01:47: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
You can say whatever you like in my country- so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings
PASS.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Is he a 22-carat wank-head? Yes. Does that deserve a custodial sentence? No, thank fuck, or we would all be inside. Is it a reasonable response to a very poorly timed slogan? Probably.
No. Otherwise we're back to imprisoning old ladies at bus stops for expressing too loudly their stupid opinions.
There is only one reason this guy was arrested, and that is because he is a criminal and it is generally considered appropriate to throw the book at him for any perceived wrong.
Clearly there isn't much thought involved into the consequences of this judicial ruling. There is a question hanging in the air about whether he has now been imprisoned for someone taking offense even though the incident to which the t-shirt is not the one they think it is (as it were).
If he has broken bail rules then that is fair enough. But don't bring his clothing into it.
[ 12. October 2012, 06:58: Message edited by: the long ranger ]
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
You can say whatever you like in my country- so long as it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings
PASS.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
How long before books start being banned?
You think they aren't already? Plenty of banning occurs in your own country. Google is your friend.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
You've got to wonder how a shirt reading 'One Dead PiG' becomes connected to the murder of
two officers. It looks like someone has taken offence too easily.
Originally posted by the long ranger:
quote:
even though the incident to which the t-shirt is not the one they think it is (as it were).
One police officer died at the scene, the other died shortly after in hospital. Therefore at the point he made the T-shirt, the news was reporting one death, one serious injury.
I'm with Doublethink - the T-shirt should have been confiscated. He should not have been jailed.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
One police officer died at the scene, the other died shortly after in hospital. Therefore at the point he made the T-shirt, the news was reporting one death, one serious injury.
I'm with Doublethink - the T-shirt should have been confiscated. He should not have been jailed.
The man appears to have a mental illness and a long-running dispute with police. The t-shirt was being worn before the shootings in question.
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Is he a 22-carat wank-head? Yes. Does that deserve a custodial sentence? No, thank fuck, or we would all be inside. Is it a reasonable response to a very poorly timed slogan? Probably.
No. Otherwise we're back to imprisoning old ladies at bus stops for expressing too loudly their stupid opinions.
As I said. And he was not just speaking but displaying. Maybe they should have got Gene Hunt to kick his fucking head in.
The problem is I cannot find any sympathy for him. This is not the same as imprisoning old ladies, with no previous, for being bigots. He was promoting killing policemen just at the point when another bastard had just done precisely that. Bad timing, and he is paying for this.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
Freedom of speech, yeah; freedom for hate speech, no, not really.
In the 1980s, I saw idiots wearing T-shirts featuring what looked at first like a can of Raid bug spray, and bearing the slogan: "AIDS - kills fags dead before they spread."
That, IMO, crossed the line into hate crime; so the line is probably there, like it or not.
I think most of us would say there is something wrong with inciting hatred for people because of what they *are* (gay, black, asian, transgender etc) but not necessarily for inciting hatred for people because of what they do (being a member of the National Front, war crimes, seal-clubbing, double-parking, using plastic bags etc).
Does it boil down to a question of whether it's "wronger" to hate someone for being a police officer than for being a member of the National Front?
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Is he a 22-carat wank-head? Yes. Does that deserve a custodial sentence? No, thank fuck, or we would all be inside. Is it a reasonable response to a very poorly timed slogan? Probably.
No. Otherwise we're back to imprisoning old ladies at bus stops for expressing too loudly their stupid opinions.
As I said. And he was not just speaking but displaying. Maybe they should have got Gene Hunt to kick his fucking head in.
The problem is I cannot find any sympathy for him. This is not the same as imprisoning old ladies, with no previous, for being bigots. He was promoting killing policemen just at the point when another bastard had just done precisely that. Bad timing, and he is paying for this.
He is mentally ill. Quite what imprisonment will achieve is a mystery, beyond a serious risk of assault while he's inside.
Still, if you're happy, I suppose that's all that matters. Maybe every kid wearing an FCUK T-shirt ought to go down too?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
As I said. And he was not just speaking but displaying. Maybe they should have got Gene Hunt to kick his fucking head in.
Or maybe we should all have the maturity to deal with something they have actually done in accordance with sensible and enforceable laws rather than giving anyone sanction to kick anyone else's fucking head in.
I find it fucking unbelievable that anyone thinks that the memory of two unarmed policewomen is somehow preserved by total knee-jerk over-reaction against someone doing something unpleasant. Get a fucking life.
quote:
The problem is I cannot find any sympathy for him. This is not the same as imprisoning old ladies, with no previous, for being bigots. He was promoting killing policemen just at the point when another bastard had just done precisely that. Bad timing, and he is paying for this.
The law is supposed to treat everyone equally and consider each case on its own merits. If this person broke bail or parole, then there is ample reason to give him the required punishment. But deciding to give him extra because you don't happen to like the cut of his jib is so far beyond justice as to be irresponsible.
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
The law is supposed to treat everyone equally and consider each case on its own merits. If this person broke bail or parole, then there is ample reason to give him the required punishment. But deciding to give him extra because you don't happen to like the cut of his jib is so far beyond justice as to be irresponsible.
Indeed- that's why justice is depicted as being blind. The fact that people don't like the opinions being voiced is why they need to be protected.
Pretending it's free speech when speech is only limited to nice things is like Ford's apocryphal saying "You can have your Model-T in any color you like- so long as it's black."
[ 12. October 2012, 12:12: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
He was imprisoned for being in breach of a suspended sentence.
No, that was only 4 months of the 8 months he was imprisoned for. The other 4 were purely for wearing the t-shirt.
There's both more and less going on here than there appears to be. Some sharp legal work that takes a small amount of reading between the lines to figure out.
He was ordered to serve two four month concurrent sentences. Meaning he serves both at the same time. Total time in jail: 4 months - each month counts to both sentences. That he wore the t-shirt adds a total jail time to him of 0.0 days.
He also admitted to a public order offence. In short he pled guilty.
So we have the following events.
Man pleads guilty to a crime in court. Which means the judge at this point must give him a sentence. At which point the judge looked at the rest of what he was being accused of and gave him a harsh-seeming sentence in a way that did precisely nothing - he's already serving those four months in prison.
In summary: Man pleads guilty to the crime of being an asshole. Judge wrangles it so although the punishment appears harsh there is literally no punishment.
For the record the normal use of concurrent sentencing is so the judge can say "Well yeah. You have managed to convict him of technically eight separate crimes. But in reality they are all part of the same thing. So for sentencing terms it should only be one jail term." but it is sometimes used, as here, for the judge to say "Well, yeah. I have to sentence him for that. He plead guilty/the jury found him guilty. But it's not worth bothering with is it?" The four months for the t-shirt being the same as the four months for the cannabis is not a coincidence. It's a subtle rebuke to the police/prosecution.
[ 12. October 2012, 13:13: Message edited by: Justinian ]
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
[ The four months for the t-shirt being the same as the four months for the cannabis is not a coincidence. It's a subtle rebuke to the police/prosecution.
I'd prefer a less-subtle, "Charge dismissed, and quit wasting the Court's time with this rubbish."
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The shirt says "Kill a Cop" on it. That is a criminal offence in civilized countries. As is threatening to assault someone, raising your fist as if to strike someone. As are calls for terrorism. There are indeed rights to free speech, but they also have limits. A look through newspapers in the fist half of the 20th century, particularly French ones, will show that if there was a call to kill someone, usually a politician, someone generally shot or blew him up. We cannot have people advocating killing of anyone. Any sensible person would understand that free speech rights are exceeded by the right not to be killed or threatened.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
[ The four months for the t-shirt being the same as the four months for the cannabis is not a coincidence. It's a subtle rebuke to the police/prosecution.
I'd prefer a less-subtle, "Charge dismissed, and quit wasting the Court's time with this rubbish."
Possibly. But after he's pled guilty I don't think the judge can legally do that. This is the equivalent of awarding £1 in damages to a successful plaintiff.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by Justinian:
[ The four months for the t-shirt being the same as the four months for the cannabis is not a coincidence. It's a subtle rebuke to the police/prosecution.
I'd prefer a less-subtle, "Charge dismissed, and quit wasting the Court's time with this rubbish."
Possibly. But after he's pled guilty I don't think the judge can legally do that. This is the equivalent of awarding £1 in damages to a successful plaintiff.
Well, yes. The charges ought have been tossed before he got to the pleading.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
In other news on a sort-of-related theme, a man was arrested for getting a good deal at a car dealership. Yay America.
[ 12. October 2012, 16:12: Message edited by: Jonathan Strange ]
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Strange:
In other news on a sort-of-related theme, a man was arrested for getting a good deal at a car dealership. Yay America.
The story reads thus "Man arrested for ridiculous reason. Man was freed immediately and his accuser apologized."
So... 'splain what that has to do with the case at hand?
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Strange:
In other news on a sort-of-related theme, a man was arrested for getting a good deal at a car dealership. Yay America.
The story reads thus "Man arrested for ridiculous reason. Man was freed immediately and his accuser apologized."
So... 'splain what that has to do with the case at hand?
In neither case was there any actual jail time for the offence?
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
Within this tread and the event in particular, there is something a little more disturbing that perhaps ought to be faced by those who might pride themselves as liberal minded. Whether we like it or not, there clearly has been some creep in what is regarded as criminal or free speech. This may not be typical in illustating it, but it is there.
There has also been some creep (or perhaps such genetical types have just been let off the leash) in other areas of national life. The quite extraordinary growth of legislation under the Blair-Brown administration in the UK is a small illustration of this.
There is a sort of traffic-warden 'you can't park here!' growth of a non-religious puritanism that is quite sinister. A sort of round headed prohibitionism that one might at best regard as a personality disorder, and at worst an attempt to redefine freedom and liberty in the light of those individuals' own personal prejudice and desire for control.
Of course if one disagress, one is regarded as slightly deviant. Just a little like the way the writing was gradually changed on the wall in Animal Farm, the majority bleat along in agreement and willful or non-willful blindness.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
In neither case was there any actual jail time for the offence?
Getting a 4 month sentence that happens to coincide with a sentence for another crime isn't quite the same thing as getting no jail time. The man was still found guilty and punished for expressing a disagreeable idea about a government institution.
And that still doesn't explain what this other case is supposed to prove about the United States.
[ 12. October 2012, 17:52: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
Simply this: if you don't like something, your knee-jerk reaction is to have the little guy arrested.
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
And that still doesn't explain what this other case is supposed to prove about the United States.
That American courts handle this sort of silliness correctly- toss the ridiculous charges out. At least that's the only relation I can see.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Strange:
Simply this: if you don't like something, your knee-jerk reaction is to have the little guy arrested.
The guy was immediately freed and charged with nothing. I am sorry you can't understand the difference.
[ 12. October 2012, 18:22: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
And that still doesn't explain what this other case is supposed to prove about the United States.
That American courts handle this sort of silliness correctly- toss the ridiculous charges out. At least that's the only relation I can see.
Uhh, I'd be a bit more careful about making generalizations like that. In this case, the court handled the case correctly by tossing the charges out (likely having only cost the person thousands in legal fees and untold humiliations). However, the cops still arrested him, seeing as how that's what this country is all about.
But back to your regularly scheduled... uh, what is this? A rant about how the UK no longer has freedom of speech and the US is rapidly heading that way? Whatever it is, back to it.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
There were no fees in the other case. The accuser dropped the charges and apologized. That's it. it didn't have anything to do with free speech either- the guy was accused of theft.
But, as was said, that's nothing to do with nothing. The issue is here is free speech.
[ 12. October 2012, 18:32: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Strange:
Simply this: if you don't like something, your knee-jerk reaction is to have the little guy arrested.
The guy was immediately freed and charged with nothing. I am sorry you can't understand the difference.
To quote the article:
quote:
The charges against Sawyer have been dropped, according to the Virginian-Pilot.
I'm sorry you don't understand what the word 'dropped' means or the fact that his arrest and the charges against him will come up in every search for housing, employment, etc.
must stop posting on thread tangent
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
There were no fees in the other case.
He was released on bond. There damn sure were both legal fees (to a lawyer) and court fees. Please learn something about how our legal system works before pontificating about it.
But, as you say, back to free speech.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Did I pontificate? People have lashed out at the US system in a weak attempt to deflect from the original case, but I never held out the US system as an example.
[ 12. October 2012, 18:54: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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saysay
Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645
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Posted
Vocabulary pedantry: that's more like it. Yeah, 'pontificate' was the wrong word, although I also disagree with your description that people have lashed out in an attempt to deflect attention from the original case (but that may just be because I don't see that much to say about the original case).
I mean, if this thread is about the reduction in free speech in the UK, then why aren't we discussing any of the cases written about here?
Ah, well, mysteries of the Ship I suppose.
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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."
Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
Americans ranting about how we don't have freedom of speech in the UK, and live in a fascist state, pop up regularly on the Ship. Is there any chance the topic could get labelled as a Dead Horse? To my mind it is a subject that gets "flogged just a wee bit too enthusiastically". I'd like to see it redirected to "the place where all done to death threads get booted to, so that they can happily canter along with the other old nags".
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The man was still found guilty
Wrong. He entered a plea of "guilty". Big difference.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Americans ranting...
It's telling that more than one person on this thread wants to make this about fat, hypocritical American attacking the British way of life instead of talking about what free speech is and whether what happened to this man was truly just.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
The man was still found guilty
Wrong. He entered a plea of "guilty". Big difference.
Not really. The court doesn't (and can't) punish people if they plead guilty to things that aren't crimes. The fact that it is actually illegal to express disagreeable ideas is the problem here.
This isn't an attack on an arbitrary or capricious court. Which is why (among other things) the tangent about that American case is so irrelevant.
[ 13. October 2012, 13:03: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Zach82. Find another thread to ruin before a lot of people transfer their dislike of you and your bone-headed ideas to Americans in general.
Thanks.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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