Ship of Fools: Sport - a bad thing?

Thread: Sport - a bad thing? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on :

This is triggered by the Lance Armstrong thread, but I have often thought about it in the past.

The whole "higher, faster, stronger" thing of athletics seems set up to systematically generate drug problems. No-one can run infinitely fast, so at some point we must bump against the limits of what is physically possible. But people want to win, spectators want to see records broken. Hence the temptation to dope.

In other sports less purely tied to physical capacity, there might be less of a drug problem, but nevertheless pressure to cheat in other ways (e.g. ball-tampering in cricket).

Question: Is the problem simply that as a global culture we allocate too much importance to winning at sport?

Further question: do we allocate too much importance to sport itself (let alone winning?). ISTM that the whole point of sport is that it is intrinsically unimportant.

Historically an over-emphasis on sport has sometimes been pathological (e.g. gladiators, chariot races leading to sectarian riots, kings who spent their whole time hunting rather than governing).

Do things like enormous salaries for sports players, match-fixing, drugs etc. indicate that sport is in a pathological state now?

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Not sure, but the official religion of the UK appears to be Sex, Sport, and Shopping - albeit not necessarily in that order......

Ian J.

Posted by Macrina (# 8807) on :

To answer the questions: No I don't think we do allocate too much importance to winning on a global scale. I think people like huge flashy spectacles and sports are often the way most people experience that alongside rock concerts etc. I think people also like experiences that absorb them in the crowd and sport is one of the few remaining means for the average Brit to experience that now.

I do think the massive, huge, overwhelming problem with sport is that it's now tied irreversibly to money and sponsorships. Money is not what should govern sport and talent and too often now it does. As a hockey fan I am frustrated at the NHL right now and I think the impasse there is a good illustration of the problem, as is the erosion of the English County season by flashy big contracts in the Indian Premier league.

As for the importance of sport being intrisically unimportant I'm not sure where you're going with this. I have some funny flashbacks to the Red Dwarf books where sport had replaced war but I'm not sure we're there yet. Sport SHOULD be a means to bind communities together and define and channel our competitive instincts in a non-fatal direction. I don't see anything wrong with that.

What we have now is a situation where U.K Football now prices out the average person, local leisure centres are struggling with cuts and expensive gyms put off people with mounting bills to pay already. Sport and money is the problem, not sport itself.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
Is the problem simply that as a global culture we allocate too much importance to winning at sport?

I am a fan of the Atlanta Braves, Carolina Panthers, Asheville Tourists and whatever sports teams I or my family happen to be playing on at the time.

They are just ballgames. It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. When it gets beyond that one should step back and spend some time wondering about what is really important.

We don't do it just in sports, though. We allocate too much importance to politics, sports, entertainment, celebrities, material goods, etc, etc, so on and so forth as long as it takes our mind off the fact that we live on a fallen world and are all dying.

The things of life are ok, I suppose, if we remember we can only hold them for a little while in an open hand and can never hold them forever in a clinched fist. There's really only one thing we can hold forever.

We should always remember that time is filled with swift transition and that naught of earth unmoved can stand, and to build our hopes on things eternal and hold to God's unchanging hand.

There's my rant about it. If you don't like it you can buy me a beer.

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
We don't do it just in sports, though. We allocate too much importance to politics, sports, entertainment, celebrities, material goods, etc, etc, so on and so forth as long as it takes our mind off the fact that we live on a fallen world and are all dying.

Yes, pointing just at sport seems unfair. We compete in business and politics and relationships. And there are those whose desire to "win" is such that they cheat. After all, what was the Trojan Horse but a sneaky underhanded way to win a battle? Cheating in politics is endemic. Businesses are always looking for "an edge" against their competitors, stealing company secrets and the like. Even video games have "cheat codes" that those "In The Know" can use--to win.

Winning in anything brings with it power in one form or another. And we desire power not just to be able to wield that power ("We're Number One!") but just so that nobody else has power over us. That this is reflected in our sports is no great shock.

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:

Question: Is the problem simply that as a global culture we allocate too much importance to winning at sport?

Yes, I think this is self-evident. All spectator sport is about hero-worship. All participation sport is about self-worship. Sport is intrinsically idolatrous and should be avoided by people of faith.

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:

quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:

Question: Is the problem simply that as a global culture we allocate too much importance to winning at sport?

Yes, I think this is self-evident. All spectator sport is about hero-worship. All participation sport is about self-worship. Sport is intrinsically idolatrous and should be avoided by people of faith.

Forgive me if you are being sarcastic, but really? Christian children shouldn't participate in PE lessons? It's wrong for churches to have inter-church 5-a-side football matches? Christian women shouldn't take part in Race For Life events? Define 'sport' - not all sports are competitive, or at least are not practiced at competitive level by most people who participate in them.

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

I've got six more years before I can join the over 40 soccer team a bunch of my friends currently play on. They've got something like a 0-24-0 record with a GD of -60. Yes, sixty.

Why am I looking forward to it? It's an excuse to hang out with friends while playing in the mud (OREGON!) and mild to moderate physical activity has been scientifically proven to improve physical health, reduce stress, and may slow cognitive decline as you age. Also, the jersey sponsor is a local pub who gives the players discounts.

I don't know if Jade Constable is now turning up their nose at me for all my self-worship*, I see it as an excellent way to take care of the gifts God gave me, which include a cardiovascular system and cognitive function.

*No matter that I am pretty much the definition of awesome, and so modest, too!

Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :

Paul used sports metaphor in describing the life in Christ. The problem isn't sport itself.

An analogy would be that nurishment is fine, but making your belly into god is problematic.

I must be full of Paul today.

Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Not sure, but the official religion of the UK appears to be Sex, Sport, and Shopping - albeit not necessarily in that order......

Ian J.

Where does Swilling Pints come in?

(I was looking for the alliterative S.)

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
I've got six more years before I can join the over 40 soccer team a bunch of my friends currently play on. They've got something like a 0-24-0 record with a GD of -60. Yes, sixty.

Why am I looking forward to it? It's an excuse to hang out with friends while playing in the mud (OREGON!) and mild to moderate physical activity has been scientifically proven to improve physical health, reduce stress, and may slow cognitive decline as you age. Also, the jersey sponsor is a local pub who gives the players discounts.

I don't know if Jade Constable is now turning up their nose at me for all my self-worship*, I see it as an excellent way to take care of the gifts God gave me, which include a cardiovascular system and cognitive function.

*No matter that I am pretty much the definition of awesome, and so modest, too!

Hairy Biker called sport self-worship, not me [Smile]

I am terrible at most sport - dyscalculia means poor coordination - but I enjoy hiking, and the benefits of sport are huge. I would like to try yoga too.

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
[QUOTE]Forgive me if you are being sarcastic, but really? Christian children shouldn't participate in PE lessons? It's wrong for churches to have inter-church 5-a-side football matches? Christian women shouldn't take part in Race For Life events? Define 'sport' - not all sports are competitive, or at least are not practiced at competitive level by most people who participate in them.

Yes, I mean competitive sport. I wouldn't count yoga as a sport!
I recently met one of the paralympic record holders who happens to be a Christian. She described how selfish sports people are and said she hoped her faith would show in the way that she could care about others as well as being a great athlete. But for the most part, the message of sport is "win at all costs". It is quite incompatible with the message of Christ. Why do you think Paul used it as a metaphor? Sport, as faithfulness, requires total and exclusive dedication.

Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on :

But how has the "win at all costs" mentality become established? It has not always been so. For example, the Victorian ideal was that you tried hard to win, but that in the process you would learn that there were things more important than winning. That was the educative purpose of sport. This attitude has been much derided but seems superior to the modern attitude, where the lesson seems to be "You have to be prepared to sacrifice everything else to get to the top".

I have to say, though, that HB's first post was a bit much even for me. At first I thought it must be ironic. As someone said - even Paul said that "physical training is of some value".

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

If we want to say sport is a bad thing , then we could just as well say it is our competitive instinct that is bad.

Take away humanity's competitiveness and you take away a large part of it's driving force.

Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on :

Paul didn't think that a spirit of competitiveness was necessarily a bad thing. He used the metaphor of running a race. (I say this as a rather beta person by nature.)

I don't think that sport of itself is a bad thing -- quite the opposite (i say this as a somewhat flabby in parts person!). The corporatization of sport however is a quite bad thing, and it is a very bad thing that in so many U.S. universities and colleges (and high schools) the sports tail has come to wag the educational dog -- an absurd situation.

Also i think there are some specific some sports are overly violent, e.g., boxing and North American football.

[ 14. October 2012, 12:21: Message edited by: malik3000 ]

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
[QUOTE]Forgive me if you are being sarcastic, but really? Christian children shouldn't participate in PE lessons? It's wrong for churches to have inter-church 5-a-side football matches? Christian women shouldn't take part in Race For Life events? Define 'sport' - not all sports are competitive, or at least are not practiced at competitive level by most people who participate in them.
Yes, I mean competitive sport. I wouldn't count yoga as a sport!
I recently met one of the paralympic record holders who happens to be a Christian. She described how selfish sports people are and said she hoped her faith would show in the way that she could care about others as well as being a great athlete. But for the most part, the message of sport is "win at all costs". It is quite incompatible with the message of Christ. Why do you think Paul used it as a metaphor? Sport, as faithfulness, requires total and exclusive dedication.

Only a tiny minority of sportspeople have to give sport that kind of dedication, though. Most people enjoy sport recreationally (often not even participating but just watching!). In any case, I'm not sure 'win at all costs' is quite the angle even professional sportspeople come from, more like 'be the best you can possibly be'. Paul did use sports metaphors positively too...

Christian kids play competitive sport at school and don't seem harmed by it.

[ 14. October 2012, 12:31: Message edited by: Jade Constable ]

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
But for the most part, the message of sport is "win at all costs".

That was forty years ago. Now it is just "get through it without pullin' a muscle".

Posted by Ruudy (# 3939) on :

What Mere Nick said in his first post.

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Hairy Biker called sport self-worship, not me I am terrible at most sport - dyscalculia means poor coordination - but I enjoy hiking, and the benefits of sport are huge. I would like to try yoga too.

I call bupkis on the dyscalculia excuse. I have severe dyscalculia, and I was a competitive dancer for AGES. Yeah, I fell down a lot more than my other teammates, but we won a boatload of awards, too.

If you want to try it, GO TRY IT.

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Hairy Biker called sport self-worship, not me I am terrible at most sport - dyscalculia means poor coordination - but I enjoy hiking, and the benefits of sport are huge. I would like to try yoga too.
I call bupkis on the dyscalculia excuse. I have severe dyscalculia, and I was a competitive dancer for AGES. Yeah, I fell down a lot more than my other teammates, but we won a boatload of awards, too.

If you want to try it, GO TRY IT.

I don't want to try it though [Smile]

And I really don't have enough of a sense of rhythm to do any kind of dancing.

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