Ship of Fools: Offer?

Thread: Offer? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Ondergard (# 9324) on :

Can the Anglicans amongst us give an opinion on this question:

is it even theoretically possible, or permissible, for an Anglican bishop to offer a parish to a minister of another communion if he or she should undertake to swim the... well, what would it be? The Thames? The Isis? If it is possible, does the Bishop have to refer it to anyone else outside the Diocese for approval, or can he just (re-) ordain and send the old minister/new priest off to his new pastoral charge?

Posted by Grammatica (# 13248) on :

Ondergard, which part of the Communion are you located in?

It would be completely impossible in the Episcopal Church, because of the way we select our parish clergy.

Posted by Grammatica (# 13248) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Grammatica:
Ondergard, which part of the Communion are you located in?

It would be completely impossible in the Episcopal Church, because of the way we select our parish clergy.

Should have read your signature before replying. I see that you're in Wales.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

Depends on the communion's relationship with the Anglican province in question. Take TEC as an example. If you are Lutheran or Moravian, the bishop could appoint you priest in charge of a church without you even having to be received into TEC. If you are Roman Catholic or Orthodox, the bishop would first receive you into TEC. Everybody else would be ordained first. The diocesan bishop wouldn't have to consult anybody if he or she didn't wish to do so. You would likely have to go through the discernment process. Don't know about England or Wales. I'd be surprised if it was all that different.

Posted by Grammatica (# 13248) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
The diocesan bishop wouldn't have to consult anybody if he or she didn't wish to do so. You would likely have to go through the discernment process.

No requirement that the person would have to go through the discernment process, then? I hadn't thought so; I stand corrected. It's become so common these days, when a parish has a vacancy, that I thought it was required.

Posted by Ender's Shadow (# 2272) on :

A bishop can ordain who he likes; no actual way to block that.

A bishop who holds the patronage of a parish can appoint whom he likes (which is the situation in Wales for all churches I believe). In England the parish representatives have the right of veto on the appointment - but if they were in agreement, there would be no barrier. I guess the situation is similar in Wales.

So I suspect the answer to the question is 'yes'. And I can perfectly well conceive of a situation where this would be an entirely appropriate thing to do; for example if the parish concerned were effectively closed, and the minister involved were running an independent church of some kind, then bringing him and his congregation into the Anglican communion by this route seems eminently reasonable. However the more common practice in this scenario seems to be to dissolve the parish and rent the building to this independent group.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

I know of someone who was, until recently, Pastor of an independent evangelical church who was appointed Vicar of an Anglican parish. The difference though was that he had already been ordained as an Anglican priest and had worked as the incumbent of a CofE parish in the past. Had he not been, I doubt he would even have been allowed to apply.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ondergard:
Can the Anglicans amongst us give an opinion on this question:

is it even theoretically possible, or permissible, for an Anglican bishop to offer a parish to a minister of another communion if he or she should undertake to swim the... well, what would it be? The Thames? The Isis? If it is possible, does the Bishop have to refer it to anyone else outside the Diocese for approval, or can he just (re-) ordain and send the old minister/new priest off to his new pastoral charge?

There have been anecdotal examples of that. An appointment in one of our ancient universities recently isn't too distant from that. I know of one of our brethren who was offered fast-track ordination and parish by the local Anglican diocesan (many miles from where I currently serve) but he turned it down. I doubt it's spoken of very loudly though.

Posted by Ondergard (# 9324) on :

Yes, I am in Wales - unless someone towed Pembrokeshire over the Irish Sea while I wasn't looking - but don't presume that the Bishop in question either

a) exists in the first place;

b) if he exists, that he's in Wales, or

c) that I'm the minister in question!

I was actually asking having been at The Gathering in Aberystwyth last week, and was just wondering if there needed to be any structural alterations to the C in W, or indeed the C of E, in order for the aspirations of the Commission to swing into action, as there certainly would be in the Methodist Church - and, I suspect, also the URC and the covenanting Baptists - or whether the six Welsh bishops could just get on with it if they felt like it.

Posted by Ender's Shadow (# 2272) on :

Actually I ignored the concept of 'serving your title' which is requires that a priest has been the curate in a parish before being appointed incumbent. It's intended to prevent patrons from appointing unqualified people to be incumbent. I suspect there are ways around it, but it might be a barrier.

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