Ship of Fools: Dreams

Thread: Dreams Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Kaplan Corday (# 16119) on :

Perhaps we have been married too long and are running out of things to talk about, because my wife asked me recently whether I ever have dreams about Christian themes, because her Christian life ( as far as anyone can remember their dreams) has never featured in any form in any of hers, which she finds strange.

She did once dream about her father shortly after he died, who told her that the food in Heaven was wonderful – he specially commented on the varieties of cheese available – but for some reason she didn’t count that.

I do occasionally dream about Christianity- related matters, but not in any meaningful way.

That is to say, I have never experienced clear and obvious revelation, guidance or comfort through a dream.

Given that dreams from God appear in Scripture, and given that many charo/penty Christians claim to receive “pictures”, I am disinclined to be dogmatically cessationist about the possibility, though I am constitutionally skeptical about it.

Does anyone believe that they have received a message from God in a dream?

Posted by The Revolutionist (# 4578) on :

I don't think I've received any messages from God in dreams, but I've had some dreams with "Christian themes".

Once I dreamed that I drowned, but rather than waking up on dying in the dream, I found myself in a seemingly endless building with no outdoors - just rooms and rooms, mostly offices. I was told I had to wait for my paperwork to go through before I could be moved on to Heaven. There was a small group of us waiting around, and it was all rather depressing. A couple of the other people had a guitar and tambourine and started singing praise songs to try and cheer everyone up, which really wasn't helping. I was beginning to wonder if I'd ended up in the other place [Ultra confused]

Another time I dreamed that the Second Coming happened and Jesus gave all the Christians hoverboards to fly around on. They didn't work for non-Christians because they were weighed down by the weight of sin, apparently!

Posted by Kaplan Corday (# 16119) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Revolutionist:
I found myself in a seemingly endless building with no outdoors - just rooms and rooms, mostly offices. I was told I had to wait for my paperwork to go through before I could be moved on to Heaven. There was a small group of us waiting around, and it was all rather depressing.

Had you been reading Kafka before you dropped off to sleep?

[ 16. October 2012, 10:33: Message edited by: Kaplan Corday ]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

As far as a 'revelation' goes, I don't think it happens as a one-off. usually people have a series of different dreams that all seem to have the same 'message'.

I frequently dream of losing control of my work -(teaching wrong class in the wrong room with the wrong textbooks) which has been a nudge to retire earlier than i wanted to and to learn to let go.

Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
Does anyone believe that they have received a message from God in a dream?

Yes. My dreams are frequently only Christian-themed in the sense that 'love your neighbor as yourself' is a Christian theme and they are frequently about people (or sometimes people and politics).

And IME leo's wrong; revelation can happen as a one-off.

Posted by Kaplan Corday (# 16119) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I frequently dream of losing control of my work -(teaching wrong class in the wrong room with the wrong textbooks) which has been a nudge to retire earlier than i wanted to and to learn to let go.

Sorry, but I can warn you from experience that those dreams stick around years after you give up teaching.

Another one takes the form of suddenly realising that you have taught your students only a fraction of the course, and that the exams are imminent.

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I frequently dream of losing control of my work -(teaching wrong class in the wrong room with the wrong textbooks) which has been a nudge to retire earlier than i wanted to and to learn to let go.
Sorry, but I can warn you from experience that those dreams stick around years after you give up teaching.

Another one takes the form of suddenly realising that you have taught your students only a fraction of the course, and that the exams are imminent.

It's years since I taught in a school but about three nights ago before I had seen this thread, I dreamt I had apparently totally neglected taking a particular class all one year. It seems I had relied on my memory of the timetable and they did not let me know till just before the exams.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Ain't nobody in your head but you - an important point, as believing otherwise can be used to substantiate charges of witchcraft.

Which is not to say the unconscious You may not have a clearer view of what is going wrong and be attempting to flag this up. Unfortunately the language it communicates in is a surrealist mosaic composed of fragments of memory, myth and stuff you saw on the telly last evening. (As an aside, the last couple of nights it's been lobbing over snake-hunting, devastating earthquakes along the Pacific Ring and Vladamir Putin. Trif.)

Occasionally - very occasionally - you will get a dream which resonates. I can remember two such in my life: one was a succinct and prescient annihilation of Christian faith, and the other a remarkable image of flow/stasis mystery and creativity and at the same time a classic mandala.

Neither dream caused me to live and believe in a certain way, they just told me the truth about how I am doing so.

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :

There have been probably three occasions in my life where I've had a meaningful dream/vision and they've all come when I've been in that in-between stage of either falling asleep or waking up. Two of them showed me quite profound truths about my life and my faith, one showed me something that was to happen, and did.

Otherwise, I dream vividly every night although I don't always remember what I dream. If I do remember and write them down they often show me clearly what I'm feeling about a situation. I wouldn't necessarily describe them as "messages from God" unless (as is entirely possible) s/he is wanting to make me aware of what I really think and feel about something.

I'm currently waiting on one of my in-betweeny vision/dreamy things and have no idea what it means which is a bit [Eek!]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
And IME leo's wrong; revelation can happen as a one-off.

Whilst there is biblical precedent for one-off revelatory dreams, traditional spiritual direction is very wary of these - 'discernment of spirits' in the classical Ignatian tradition, such discernment surveys the longer, bigger picture.

As for the biblical precedents, any seemingly one-off is usually the result of a longer process, e.g. Saul at the stoning of Stephen, an interval, the road to Damascus...

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I frequently dream of losing control of my work -(teaching wrong class in the wrong room with the wrong textbooks) which has been a nudge to retire earlier than i wanted to and to learn to let go.
Sorry, but I can warn you from experience that those dreams stick around years after you give up teaching.

Yes, other retired teachers have told me this.

I have yet, however, to have the dream which a former colleague frequently has, of standing at the front of a class while being stark naked.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I frequently dream of losing control of my work -(teaching wrong class in the wrong room with the wrong textbooks) which has been a nudge to retire earlier than i wanted to and to learn to let go.
Sorry, but I can warn you from experience that those dreams stick around years after you give up teaching.

Another one takes the form of suddenly realising that you have taught your students only a fraction of the course, and that the exams are imminent.

Had another one the other night. Not so bad as usual, I actually made it to the classroom.

I shall be avoiding this afternoon's radio play. Ofsted, and impending academisation.

[ 17. October 2012, 13:04: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Oscar P. (# 10412) on :

Another former teacher here. My dream usually took the form of trying to teach a lesson while my students did everything but what they were supposed to be doing. I usually had it a few weeks before school started every year, and occasionally also since I've retired.

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

I have yet, however, to have the dream which a former colleague frequently has, of standing at the front of a class while being stark naked.

The only time I can remember being naked in public in a dream was a dream in which I was being faced with dismissal from the university and was naked at the trial. The trial, naturally, was on a train (maybe BART, maybe London Tube). The cause for dismissal was having participated in a sit-in protest against some university policy and the protest had been in the gym. Maybe I'd been occupying the locker room?

Anyway, back to the question of Christian themes in dreams, I've certainly had churchy dreams. Mostly it's the common being-unprepared-for-class dream, but transfered to a service. The funniest was while I was away at our novitiate, waiting to be admitted to vows and returned to the university. I dreamt that I was back, and I'd been assigned as chaplain to one of the choirs. I showed up on my first Sunday back to be told that I wasn't the choir's chaplain, but their offensive coordinator (as in football) and I was given a headset. My main visual memory of that dream was standing next to the sanctuary with my headset on, looking up to the choir loft and wondering what on earth I was meant to be doing.

I don't remember ever having a dream with God as an actor in the proceedings.

Posted by angelfish (# 8884) on :

I occasionally dream I am giving a sermon or reading and it is going wrong. Classic anxiety dreams about impending sermons (I don't preach often so it's scary) or general worrying whether people in church like me.

I think I have mentioned before that i believe God sent me a dream once to heal the pain of a broken relationship. i awoke from it unable to feel the anger and hurt that I had been carrying around with me for years.

A friend of mine had nightmares as a child and prayed that he would not dream anymore. He hasn't had (or remembered) a single dream in the 30 years since.

Posted by Loquacious beachcomber (# 8783) on :

My most vivid churchy dream was more of a nightmare.
In the dream, I was on vacation in Florida, when a telephone call from the local authorities informed me that I was being requisitioned, as a clergyman, to attend an execution of a felon that evening; as the chaplain for the prison was not available, they had the right to requisition any clergy in the community to become a mandatory fill in.
A black limo with a stern driver picked me up, drove me to the prison, and I met the prisoner briefly, then had to read a Psalm and conduct a brief prayer before they electrocuted the poor guy.
It was all quite vivid, unfortunately, and made me uncomfortable during my next few Forida vacations!

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by angelfish:
I occasionally dream I am giving a sermon or reading and it is going wrong. Classic anxiety dreams about impending sermons (I don't preach often so it's scary)

I often dream that i am preaching but have lost one of the pages in my script.

Ditto, singing a solo with part of the score missing - often the Easter exultet which I do every year unless we have a deacon.

I interpret these as something to do with the need to be more spontaneous.

In real life, something very similar happened when I had to preach after one hour's notice because the priest was taken ill at the last minute. It went well - some told me that it was the best sermon they'd ever heard me preach - which made my wonder why i usually spend so much time preparing.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Many friends have experienced the so-called 'phantom French test' dream (the test you've not studied for, nor attended classes, etc,) but I never have.
What I have had frequently is the naked-in-public dream. And I'm always completely at ease, not embarassed at all. A psychologist friend suggested that this indicated my supreme self-confidence. Dunno about that!
Also I have elaborate liturgical dreams - enormous pontifical ceremonies etc., happily never mixed with the naked ones.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

When I have the naked in public dream, no one else seems to notice. I can't tell whether other people are tactful or oblivious.

Moo

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

I was probably about 12 or 14 years old when I had a dream that I was in the side yard of my childhood church, walking under the weeping willows. It was dark, and I bumped into a figure wearing a judge's robes. He turned and looked at me sternly, and I knew somehow, that it was God.

Perhaps I had been doing, or contemplating doing something I shouldn't. I don't remember. But I remember the dream clearly.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I had a similar dream where I got reamed out by the Holy Spirit in the form of a little old black Jamaican grandmother who used to live down the street. Man, that was terrifying. If you'd known the lady you'd see why. I repented right quick.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
What I have had frequently is the naked-in-public dream.

I don't think I've ever had an actual dream about being naked in public, but I frequently wake up still thinking I'm in the dream I was having and thus worrying about the fact that I'm not wearing anything. Once my brain catches up to the fact that I'm actually in bed rather than in the middle of whatever I was dreaming about the sensation goes away [Smile]

Posted by Aggie (# 4385) on :

I have very strange and vivid dreams or usually nightmares - could be caused by the beta-blockers I have to take for hypertension.

A few weeks ago, I had a horrible dream where I was being stalked and followed around by an old woman wearing a blue beret. And a couple of nights ago, I dreamt I went to a funeral at a crematorium chapel, and I didn't know whose funeral it was, and I didn't recognise the deceased's family. However, one of the deceased's relatives kept asking me to get up and preach the eulogy. I tried to refuse tactfully and explain that I didn't know who the deceased person was or even whether the deceased was he or she, but the relative who asked me got irate and very insistent. Don't remember how the dream ended - but as I am neither in Holy Orders nor a preacher/ Reader in real life it was most odd that I should dream that I was asked to preach!

Other "recurring themes" in my dreams and nightmare are: falling, getting lost or trapped esp in tunnels, being chased or stalked, rats (I have a phobia of rats in real life!) and cemeteries. Anyone want to psycho-analyse me?? [Smile]

However, about 15 years ago, a few months before my father was diagnosed was terminal cancer, my maternal grandmother came to me in a dream to warn me that my father was very ill, and would be "passing into the next world soon". I am absolutely convinced that it was a message, as I remember the exact details of the dream and the conversation I had with her very clearly - even now!

I remember that at the time it was very disturbing, and I tried to dismiss it, as my father, who was 65 at the time appeared to be very fit and in robust health. I even asked my father to go to the doctor for a check-up, but he refused as he said he was fine. About 6 months after I'd had this dream, my father started getting stomach pains and feeling ill and feverish, and he thought this was just gastric flu, but the stomach pains became worse. He was diagnosed with advanced colon cancer with secondary liver cancer, and he died 18 months later.

[ 23. October 2012, 13:29: Message edited by: Aggie ]

Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :

I have two recurring dreams. One is that I own another house and live there part of the time, but I haven't been there for some time and I can't now remember how to get to it. If I wake up from this dream, I find it very difficult for a while to picture the house I am in.

The other is that I am on holiday and have to vacate the premises by 10am, but I have got the place in a terrible mess and as morning gives way to afternoon and then to evening, I am unable to get it into a fit state to hand over, no matter how hard I try.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Just a reminder that the OP asked for dreams with some plausibly divine input, rather than just weird/recurring dreams.

Firenze
Heaven Host

Posted by daisymay (# 1480) on :

Last night I had a surprising dream: I was doing Sudoku and managing to do lots correctly. Why would I have that dream? I am one of you who posted a while ago about being addicted to it. Why do we have such a dream? Where does it come from?

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Hi Daisymay,

Just a gentle reminder about Firenze's comment above; sorry, but I wasn't immediately able to see anything in your post that related to it. We've had dream threads previously but they've always been rather general, so it's good to have one with a particular theme to be explored, for a change.

Cheers

Ariel
Heaven Host
(surprised that more shipmates haven't had religious dreams)

Posted by daisymay (# 1480) on :

Sorry, I didn't say what I wondered about - did God make me have that dream so I could think it was not what to do in it's "addiction" or so that it is a useful thinking thing to do?
I had another dream when I flew up into above the world and towards the Heaven. That was about God, being rescued and taken up to Heaven.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I have been writing a story, and had a dream about it a few days ago that is still hanging around my consciousness-- there was an intensely spiritual feel to it.

One of the main characters in the story is lounging around on a couch (this couch pops up a lot in the story, with various people lounging on it.) I go over and sit next to him, and I put my hand on his chest. He looks down at me in surprise, and holds my hand where I put it. His heart begins glowing from inside his chest, a kind of golden-orange, lighting up his entire torso. I feel this weird combination of peacefulness and power. It's clear to me in the dream that my hand is what made things happen.

Posted by que sais-je (# 17185) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lothlorien:
It's years since I taught in a school but about three nights ago before I had seen this thread, I dreamt I had apparently totally neglected taking a particular class all one year. It seems I had relied on my memory of the timetable and they did not let me know till just before the exams.

Has any psychologist studied this? - my wife and I, both ex-teachers, have similar dreams. I stopped teaching 7, she 10 years ago. Do other professions have this experience?

Not a Christian dream-theme but does anyone else share my experience of when, in dreams, an attractive person wants to have sex with me and I always say - "Sorry, I'm married". My wife says I could say yes in dreams - but she's never there to remind me!

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

Que sais-je, here is another gentle reminder of the OP:

quote:

Does anyone believe that they have received a message from God in a dream?

This is an interesting question, so let's keep on topic!

jedijudy
Heaven Host

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Literally a message-- I woke up this moring from a vivid dream in which I was going through my room and found a crumpled note on primary school writing paper that I'd never seen before. It was written in that thick kindergarten pencil and was badly misspelled. It was a note from my dead cat, effusively thanking me for being such a good mistress. [Tear]

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

Aw, Kelly. [Tear]

What a sadly sweet dream.

[tangent] Miss_Molly and I used to talk about our dead cats visiting us. She had vivid descriptions! [/tangent]

I had a very vivid dream, not religious, but about church. I was polishing the handbells, and the polish wouldn't dry. It was very frustrating, because I had to have the bells ready to ring for church. I was wiping and wiping them and worked for hours (it seemed) to polish one bell. (G4!) Nobody was there to help me.

Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :

Once when I was at college I had a vivid dream that I was walking through the breakers at the edge of a rough sea in the moonlight. Just on the edge of the water were some men trying to uproot some small bushes. I was holding a wine glass containing water, which I was trying not to spill, and then found myself saying, "This glass of pure water represents N's life."

Then I woke up. N. was a friend I'd seen earlier the evening before and he'd seemed fine, but I prayed for him just in case.

Later that morning another friend told me N had been rushed to hospital in the middle of the night and was in intensive care! (He made a good recovery.)

Posted by daisymay (# 1480) on :

Last night I just had a dream I've never seen before. I saw just a blue round light, which I didn't understand was sun or night light because it was in blackness all around, as the little blue light was the only thing I could see.... What would God be showing me about that?

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
Anyway, back to the question of Christian themes in dreams, I've certainly had churchy dreams. Mostly it's the common being-unprepared-for-class dream, but transfered to a service. The funniest was while I was away at our novitiate, waiting to be admitted to vows and returned to the university. I dreamt that I was back, and I'd been assigned as chaplain to one of the choirs. I showed up on my first Sunday back to be told that I wasn't the choir's chaplain, but their offensive coordinator (as in football) and I was given a headset. My main visual memory of that dream was standing next to the sanctuary with my headset on, looking up to the choir loft and wondering what on earth I was meant to be doing.

Well, sometimes a director will ask the choir to "attack" certain notes or consonants.

I actually had a similar dream years ago, when I was in choir. I'd arrived in my place in the choir stalls, and was watching the rest of the procession continue to go by, when suddenly it became a(n American) football game!

It's probably a bipolar thing, but when I was a kid, I pretty much had nothing but vivid nightmares every night. One night, in the middle of the nightmare, I dreamed that I prayed to wake up - and I did. I found after that that if I prayed before going to sleep that I wouldn't have a nightmare, then I wouldn't. I even gained control of my dreams for a while.

That sort of thing is fascinating to me. There could, and I'm sure there is, a completely natural explanation - a prayer before bed probably focused and quieted my mind, and let my mind tell itself what kinds of images to avoid. But there's no reason, IMO, to say that God isn't working through natural means. In fact, I suspect that's why God does communicate through dreams (and visions, even) - because in our dreams (or in states of mental distress), we may be more receptive to certain images, our minds are open, the conscious mind/ego is quiet, and the brain is defragging, sorting through all kinds of stuff and looking for & creating patterns.

Looking at it that way, I think, lets us see dreams as continuous with the rest of our experience. God is everywhere, and in everything; and if we're attentive and open, we can "hear" God even in our daily lives. That doesn't mean everything that happens to us during the day is a message from God, and neither is every dream. But I think being attentive to what truths might show up in our dreams can be considered some form of listening for God.

I'm not going to write off the possibility of the more dramatic, direct revelation from God in a dream or otherwise, but I also don't think it's the only pattern that fits.

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