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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Disabled Senate
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Apparently the US Senate doesn't like people with disabilities. The treaty to improve the lot of disabled persons in at least 125 countries of te world, based on the "Americans with Disabilities" Act, was rejected by the Senate, because "it might open the way for someone to take a child out of home-schooling against the wishes of the parents", according to Rick Santorum.
The Treaty was negotiated under the direction of President GW Bush; it was supported by veteran and disabled person Bob Dole; it was supported by a large visible number of disabled Americans; but it is part of "the march towards socialism" quoth Sen. Mike Lee of Utah.
Is this some part of a plot to keep Americans from travelling to other countries, where they might see that disabled people are treated better than they are in the US? or where they see singlepayer health-care systems that function better at less cost than the US one?
Or is it sheer craven fear of the "know-nothings" of the Tea Party? or is it simple dementia (or DeMintia, except that Jim DeMint is no longer in the Senate)?
Please explain, if that is possible.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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wheelie racer
Shipmate
# 13854
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Posted
If it is any consolation, the UK ConDem government don't appear to like people with disabilities either judging by the huge amounts of funding that has been cut in welfare, social services, mental health provision and voluntary/ community sector
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Disability Rights: To boldly go where everyone else has gone..
Posts: 171 | From: off this planet | Registered: Jun 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
The United Nations is a harbinger of world government and the anti-Christ, so there's no way we're going to agree to a UN treaty modeled after our own Americans with Disabilities Act.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Even that is closer to the truth than the bullshit in the OP. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Is this some part of a plot to keep Americans from travelling to other countries, where they might see that disabled people are treated better than they are in the US?
You mean like they are treated under the Canadians with Disabilities Act? Oh wait, that doesn't exist.
As Ruth points out, the treaty is based on U.S. law, with the aim of making other countries catch up with the U.S. on these matters.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Apparently, the Parliament of Canada doesn't like people with disabilities. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Even that is closer to the truth than the bullshit in the OP.
Yeah, I really don't know where he got that. Or if he's read an article in any major American news source on the topic, because the senators' concerns were clearly stated in the NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times, etc.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
It's just one of Bree's many wind-up attempts.
Up here, disability accommodations are a provincial responsibility, hence the Ontarians With Disabilities Act, and all the other provincial acts.
It's like statutory holidays; any fule kno that it's the provincial Retail Business Holidays Act that says what holidays you get, federal holidays (the schedule is different for a few dates) only applies to banks, the post office and the federal government.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
It's just one of Bree's many wind-up attempts.
Up here, disability accommodations are a provincial responsibility, hence the Ontarians With Disabilities Act, and all the other provincial acts.
My provincialism is showing. I thought the OP was about the United States Senate not the Canadian Parliment.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Can anybody explain the connection with, quote:
"it might open the way for someone to take a child out of home-schooling against the wishes of the parents,"
attributed to one Rick Santorum (who he? - is he somebody we're supposed to have all heard of?)
Unless one knows the background, this appears to be a non sequitur and unrelated to the subject matter.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
Sorry, links here and here
I realise that the NYT is a totally unreliable source of information, BA, but, hey, I'm only reporting what I read.
I have very little sympathy for the GOP-wannabes of the Canadian Conservative Party. They also cannot live up to the international treaties they sign, witness the refusal to require registration numbers on weapons, and their knee-jerk support of Israel, and I loathe their "tough-on-crime" agneda, all of which illustrate their liking of failed GOP policies.
I'm just attacking the source of their so-called "inspiration". When you guys stop insisting that illegal export of weapons into otherwise-peaceful countries is a God-given right (oh, that's an international treaty, too, sorry, USAns don't do treaties), then maybe I'll be more polite
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wheelie racer:
If it is any consolation, the UK ConDem government don't appear to like people with disabilities either judging by the huge amounts of funding that has been cut in welfare, social services, mental health provision and voluntary/ community sector
Cuts? No mate, it's just money that was lost by the last Labour Government. I'm surprised you need a reminder of that. Never mind, we'll be happy to oblige, especially in the run up to the next General Election.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Anyuta
Shipmate
# 14692
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Can anybody explain the connection with, quote:
"it might open the way for someone to take a child out of home-schooling against the wishes of the parents,"
attributed to one Rick Santorum (who he? - is he somebody we're supposed to have all heard of?)
Unless one knows the background, this appears to be a non sequitur and unrelated to the subject matter.
He's a tea party supported former candidate for the Republican nomination for president, and former Senator.
Posts: 764 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Sorry, links here and here
I realise that the NYT is a totally unreliable source of information, BA, but, hey, I'm only reporting what I read.
I have very little sympathy for the GOP-wannabes of the Canadian Conservative Party. They also cannot live up to the international treaties they sign, witness the refusal to require registration numbers on weapons, and their knee-jerk support of Israel, and I loathe their "tough-on-crime" agneda, all of which illustrate their liking of failed GOP policies.
I'm just attacking the source of their so-called "inspiration". When you guys stop insisting that illegal export of weapons into otherwise-peaceful countries is a God-given right (oh, that's an international treaty, too, sorry, USAns don't do treaties), then maybe I'll be more polite
Remind me again what you want to discuss. Do you seriously want to talk about the UN Convention on Rights of Person's with Disabilities or not? If so, what does all this stuff about exporting weapon and support for Israel have to do with the price of tea in China? There is already a thread on Israel (the zillionth) and you could always start a thread on guns (the bajillionth). Maybe, I should start a thread asking why progressive Canadians hate victims of crime and other law abiding citizens. The OP is exactly what SPK says it is which will come as a surprise to nobody who has read more than two of the threads you've started over the years.
No, the claim you made in the OP was that the US Senate doesn't like people with disabilities because it failed to ratify the Convention on Rights for Person's with Disabilities and that's just plain nonsense. As you said, the Convention is modeled on the Americans with Disabilities Act which is already law in the United States. Persons with disabilities in the United States already have the rights guaranteed under the Convention. No supporter of the bill argues that ratifying the Convention would give persons with disabilities more rights they don't already have. And, if dislike of persons with disabilities is the only reason not to ratify the convention, what do you suppose Norway, Sweden, Finland, Ireland, and Iceland have against persons with disabilities?
Republicans are concerned that ratifying the Convention could threaten US sovereignty. Opponents of ratification worry the decisions of the committee created by the convention could be construed to have the force of law in the United States and that showing compliance to a UN committee would be an onerous burden on states. Supporters of ratification claim the United States would not be bound by the decisions of the UN committee and states would have no obligation to show compliance. In other words, the Convention is redundant and pointless.
As to the UN, some of us in the United States are leery of the UN for any number of reasons. One reason is concern over irrational anti-Americanism in the international community. As evidence of this, I offer nearly every thread you've ever started on Ship of Fools.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
USAns
I swear to God, if you don't start calling us Americans I'm either going to start a campaign in the Styx to make this non-word and others like it recognized instances of jerkishness or I'm going to rip you a new one in Hell.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Sorry, links here and here
I realise that the NYT is a totally unreliable source of information, BA, but, hey, I'm only reporting what I read.
I have very little sympathy for the GOP-wannabes of the Canadian Conservative Party. They also cannot live up to the international treaties they sign, witness the refusal to require registration numbers on weapons, and their knee-jerk support of Israel, and I loathe their "tough-on-crime" agneda, all of which illustrate their liking of failed GOP policies.
I'm just attacking the source of their so-called "inspiration". When you guys stop insisting that illegal export of weapons into otherwise-peaceful countries is a God-given right (oh, that's an international treaty, too, sorry, USAns don't do treaties), then maybe I'll be more polite
Then do what normal people do, purchase an NDP membership, contribute $100 a year to the NDP (it magically turns into $400 after the tax credit) and work to put Tom Mulcair in 24 Sussex Drive in 2015.
And it wasn't registration numbers on long guns (rifles and shotguns), it was a registry of serial numbers maintained by police, which went over like a lead balloon in everywhere in rural Canada.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Well, yes, but that approach costs money.
Blathering on about a US political party on a message board where a majority of the posters are Brits is a much cheaper way of helping the NDP come to power in Canada.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
OK, I'll let Slacktivist speak
Maybe my phrasing is a bit too much, or just maybe there is something WRONG with the decision. Whatever.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Autenrieth Road
Shipmate
# 10509
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
There is already a thread on Israel (the zillionth)
Indeed there is: Qalandia. I invite everyone to come join in. Hopefully a useful thread for those of us who weren't paying close enough attention the previous zillion-1 times, to learn something. I'm grateful to those who have participated a zillion-1 times already, for coming back for a zillionth time. Plus, given the U.N. vote to recognize Palestine as a non-member state, there are at least a few new questions.
OK, back to the Disabled Senate.
Horseman Bree, I'm so used to the U.S. not ratifying treaties that when we fail to ratify another one I don't even raise an eyebrow.
[ 07. December 2012, 21:53: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
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Truth
Posts: 9559 | From: starlight | Registered: Oct 2005
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Bostonman
Shipmate
# 17108
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Posted
The US Senate has, from its very first days, been wary of treaties. Don't be too offended. Remember the League of Nations?
Posts: 424 | From: USA | Registered: May 2012
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Maybe my phrasing is a bit too much, or just maybe there is something WRONG with the decision.
These are not mutually exclusive.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
OK, I'll let Slacktivist speak
Maybe my phrasing is a bit too much, or just maybe there is something WRONG with the decision. Whatever.
Slacktivist makes part of my point for me. While the scenario feared by opponents of the Convention is unlikely, US courts could decide the decisions of the new committee are binding. Social conservatives don't want to take that chance and I understand that. On the other hand, the supposed good that will come from the US ratifying the Convention is even less likely to happen. The nations who haven't signed the treaty aren't going to change how they treat persons with disabilities just because the US ratifies a treaty. Granted, some may use the Senate's failure to ratify the treaty as justification for poor treatment of persons with disabilities even though the Americans with Disabilities Act has been law in the US for over 20 years. Even if the US ratifies the treaty, nations who haven't signed or ratified the treaty will just fall back on the US trying to force their culture and values on the rest of the world. Such is the nature of the rampant anti-American bigotry in the international community even among our allies (especially those to the north or east if you live in Michigan). I could make a case the actions of the US Senate could lead to other nations signing or ratifying the treaty just so they can claim to be morally superior to Americans. Again, such is the nature of anti-Americanism in the international community.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
I may be wrong (my memories of ADA passage are long ago, far away, and dim), but I wonder if the real concern is this:
The Senate, AFAIK, is not itself bound by the Americans with Disabilities Act. They're not required to provide interpreter services to deaf Senators (possibly why there don't seem to be any); not required to make their aisles / desks / podia / whatever accessible to Senators using motorized wheelchairs; not required to publish large-print memoranda to vision-impaired Senators, etc.
Signing a treaty may alter that enviable condition, forcing them to abide by the law they've passed. But of course, they can't say any of that out loud without getting the whole of the disabilities community on their necks.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
Just to make sure everyone on this thread knows how our system works, it takes a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate to ratify a treaty. It only took a few Republicans paranoid about the treaty eroding US sovereignty to kill this treaty. There were 61 yeas and 38 nays, with one senator not voting. The Senate does like this treaty with the exception of a few nutcases.
So it's like the CofE and women bishops then.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
No, the vote on female bishops affects far more people than the Senate's vote on this treaty.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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